What tweeter/horn to match up with JBL 2226H in 4507 enclosures?

[workaround1]

I have JBL 2226H 15" woofers in 4507 style enclosures. I believe these are tuned to 38-40hz. I'm looking for suggestions on new or used tweeters/horns to match up with them. I've got a budget of $200-$250 for the tweeters & crossover.

I don't know how to design a crossover though, so I'm looking for proven designs.

I listen to rock and jazz and classical, though these speakers will also serve as home theater main L&R's.

Thanks for any suggestions! Driver doesn't have to be JBL and I'm open to horns. I'm using solid state 140watts per channel.

[Robh3606]

Hello

That's tight budget for adding a decent set of horns and drivers and crossovers to those cabinets. You may want to look at the Econowave thread on AK.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=150939



Rob:)

[workaround1]

Thanks, Rob.

It's already got the econowave though. I was wanting to try something different. What is the next step up, budget wise?

[Robh3606]

Did you look at the Pi speaker site?? Wayne is part of the econowave thread. Take a look at Pi speakers especially if you don't want a JBL top end. He has a couple of versions using the 2226 with different horns and compression drivers. He used to anyway.

To go JBL you could always Ebay but the cost of new diaphragms will break your budget if you need them. Lowest cost would probably be a pair of 2416's of 2418's. You can cross them over around 1.2-1.5K on the right horn. Both are thread on drivers.

Rob:)

[workaround1]

Thanks, Rob.

I'm overall happy with the econowave. But I'll be moving it to a pair of other speakers as I continue to experiment with the JBL 2226 in my 4507 enclosures. I'm just super happy with the JBL woofers and this enclosure and want to try various configurations.
I heard the B&C DE250 & Pi4 crossover are very similar to the Econowave, which is why I haven't considered it much yet. I just want to try something different.

I have no problem going with a JBL top end. I'll research the two you've mentioned!

[jcrobso]

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=290-554
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-271
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/50-5411

However, I feel in the long run you would be better off saving up the $$$ to get JBL drivers.

[pos]

2352 and 2452H-SL maybe :hmm:

[robertbartsch]

I second the suggestion for 2425s or 2426s compression drivers with this system.

FleaBay often has these with good factory diaphragms that can be had for $300-$400 per pair - USD.

Good luck wth your system!

.

[hjames]

I second the suggestion for 2425s or 2426s compression drivers with this system.

FleaBay often has these with good factory diaphragms that can be had for $300-$400 per pair - USD.

Good luck wth your system!

.

SO, that takes care of Mids - but for tweeters you'd still need something above 10kHz (and below 1200Hz) - :blink:
(plus you've ALREADY overblown his budget ...)

[Zilch]

I second the suggestion for 2425s or 2426s compression drivers with this system.The first having occurred where? :dont-know

[Zilch]

I just want to try something different.http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=9901

[Robh3606]

Is anyone else looking at what his budget is??

Rob:)

[hjames]

The first having occurred where? :dont-know

We are in a different room, my friend -
plus - he's already been eaten by a grue ...
:applaud:

[Robh3606]

SO, that takes care of Mids - but for tweeters you'd still need something above 10kHz (and below 1200Hz) - :blink:
(plus you've ALREADY overblown his budget ...)

Hello Heather

A 2425/2426 can be used as a 2 way with a 2226. Think 4430/4435. Just don't expect response out to 20khz.

Rob:)

[pos]

For this budget doing better than the econowave looks difficult.
With a 15" it would be in interesting to try to cross it around 1khz or even less.
QSC does a small cheap (less than $10) waveguide that could be interesting. It is referenced at several places on diyaudio.com

[Zilch]

Bms 4555 + 2381....

[Russellc]

Thanks, Rob.

I'm overall happy with the econowave. But I'll be moving it to a pair of other speakers as I continue to experiment with the JBL 2226 in my 4507 enclosures. I'm just super happy with the JBL woofers and this enclosure and want to try various configurations.
I heard the B&C DE250 & Pi4 crossover are very similar to the Econowave, which is why I haven't considered it much yet. I just want to try something different.

I have no problem going with a JBL top end. I'll research the two you've mentioned!
Having all of the above, I can tell you the B&C DE 250 is a large step up from the Selenium driver used on Econowave. I also have the 4507 box, with 2235H currently installed, but also have the original 2225H as well. I am going to try the crossover out from Wayne's Pi site on this combo. He's got it flat on the 290H Eminence horn/waveguide.

Beyond this, you may want to look at Zilch and others work with the JBL 2450 SL driver......big step up money wise!

For about 8 bucks, I just picked up a nice QSC waveguide that Augerpro is using over on the AVscience forum, nicer than I was expecting.......

Russellc

[pos]

For about 8 bucks, I just picked up a nice QSC waveguide that Augerpro is using over on the AVscience forum, nicer than I was expecting.......

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1167816
:)

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q288/augerpro/No%20Quarter/HVHE006.jpg

[Woody Banks]

If you want to stick with JBL, here is a current offering of 2425H's w/ 2345 horns that includes NEW JBL diaphragms. There again you are still over budget and will need crossovers.
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1255494774&/Jbl-2425H-+-2345-Pair-acoustic

[Zilch]

http://www.qsc.com/products/speakers/hpr/hpr152i.htm

Mark Engebretson is head of engineering, apparently....

[workaround1]

Thanks, everyone!

Some interesting choices here, for certain.
I kind of like the 2425/2426 suggestion, as well am intrigued by the BMS. The problem with the BMS is I'm not aware of any crossovers designed for it?
But the 2425/2426 I could probably just copy one of the existing crossovers such as one from a 4430 like Zilch linked to? That was kind of a confusing thread though. No BOM or anything to make it easy, like the econowave thread had. :)
Though Zilch did a nice job of posting an index for it.

Not sure what I'd do about a crossover for the BMS, or how it compares against the 2426?

Looks like I'll have to up my budget a bit.

[Zilch]

There are schematics and BOMs for several 4430-esque crossovers in or linked from the Quick and Dirty threads.

BMS I usually run using the adjustable Altec Model 19 crossover, though I don't recall ever running one on 2381; I may be able to do that in the next day or so and post it here.... :dont-know

[Russellc]

For this budget doing better than the econowave looks difficult.
With a 15" it would be in interesting to try to cross it around 1khz or even less.
QSC does a small cheap (less than $10) waveguide that could be interesting. It is referenced at several places on diyaudio.com
I obtained a set of these to play with, as Augerpro on AVS forum is doing a 2 way with them, called "no quarter".......pretty nice wave guide for 7 bucks.....

russellc

[Zilch]

8 bucks, actually, Russell. ;)

The problem with 2226H is finding a waveguide that'll mate with them, and I also have a pair on order to try.

THEN there's the issue of how much HF boost they'll tolerate. 4430 stopped at 16 kHz.... :yes:

[workaround1]

I personally am not able to hear 16k hz. At least not through my econowave speakers. I haven't tried that test tone on any other speakers before.

[pos]

the problem of the HF boost done passively is that you cannot boost (in fact cut the lows) more than the difference in sensitivity between your compression driver and your woofer (not counting the global loss induced by the filter)

example in the 4430/4435 :
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=21986

By 16K the response had dropped to about 94dB, just enough for the 93dB target of the 4430 and near enough for the 96dB 4435.

The 2226H is rated 97dB so you will have to find a horn and driver combo that does not need to much boost.

[Zilch]

Started to measure BMS/2381 and rediscovered that the horn is a smidge too tall to fit the available baffle space in 4507.

From the dimensions, the 10" x 14" QSC will just fit and maintain a minimum C/C (center-to-center) distance. Once those are here, and that is verified, I'll post the performance with various drivers I have on hand - JBL, BMS, B&C, Selenium.

Augerpro has already done the polars:

http://sites.google.com/site/drivervault/driver-measurements/horns-and-waveguides/qsc-pl-000446-gp

[Russellc]

For this budget doing better than the econowave looks difficult.
With a 15" it would be in interesting to try to cross it around 1khz or even less.
QSC does a small cheap (less than $10) waveguide that could be interesting. It is referenced at several places on diyaudio.com

And Zilch has been posting that QSC waveguide on a couple of forums with B&C DE 250. those drivers are on sale for 130 apiece, the QSC is 7.79 a pair, so for just over your budget, you can have econowave beating performance. According to Zilch's graphs, a heck of a lot more extension than 2425H or 2426H. I'm playing with this combination as we speak!

russellc

[4313B]

According to Zilch's graphs, a heck of a lot more extension than 2425H or 2426H.Yeah but how does it sound?

Nevermind, I'm never going to try a pair since I'm all set. And I almost never take anyone else's word for how anything sounds anyway. Especially on the Internet! ;)

( You wouldn't believe how many guys post how great something is, "ZOMG! Heaven's Choir!", and then six months later they are effing around with something else because reality set in. :rotfl: )

[Zilch]

Yeah but how does it sound?

Nevermind, I'm never going to try a pair since I'm all set.Sounds like this:

[4313B]

Sounds like this:
Thanks for the visual! :rotfl: :applaud:

***

It looks like you are aligning the acoustic centers of the drivers in that photo of the system.

[Russellc]

8 bucks, actually, Russell. ;)

The problem with 2226H is finding a waveguide that'll mate with them, and I also have a pair on order to try.

THEN there's the issue of how much HF boost they'll tolerate. 4430 stopped at 16 kHz.... :yes:

Well, mine were 7.79.:D Are you hooking 2226H woofers up to waveguides again? I keep telling ya they roll off to early!;)

Russellc

[Russellc]

Yeah but how does it sound?

Nevermind, I'm never going to try a pair since I'm all set. And I almost never take anyone else's word for how anything sounds anyway. Especially on the Internet! ;)

( You wouldn't believe how many guys post how great something is, "ZOMG! Heaven's Choir!", and then six months later they are effing around with something else because reality set in. :rotfl: )

Well, there were angels flying around the room when I turned them on,
but that may have been a flashback from the bad brown acid at woodstock.:dont-know:rotfl::rotfl:

I did try 2425H on them, Zilch has a picture of how that sounds too.......

russellc

[4313B]

Well, there were angels flying around the room when I turned them on,
but that may have been a flashback from the bad brown acid at woodstock.:dont-know:rotfl::rotfl:That's two Woodstock references today. I was doing my math homework when the rest of the country was at Woodstock. I'm 110% positive that I didn't miss a thing. :)

Well, mine were 7.79.:DHoly cow! Where are these things being made? Not with the usual slave labor I hope. :(

I'm still stuck buying the thousand dollar stuff from JBL that is being made in Northridge, U.S.A. I'm sure they will be going overseas shortly too. :(

[Russellc]

That's two Woodstock references today. I was doing my math homework when the rest of the country was at Woodstock. I'm 110% positive that I didn't miss a thing. :)
Holy cow! Where are these things being made? Not with the usual slave labor I hope. :(

I'm still stuck buying the thousand dollar stuff from JBL that is being made in Northridge, U.S.A. I'm sure they will be going overseas shortly too. :(

I'll look when I get home, I'll bet its China.:biting: Everything else is.

Russellc

[Zilch]

I'm still stuck buying the thousand dollar stuff from JBL that is being made in Northridge, U.S.A. I'm sure they will be going overseas shortly too. :(No harm in trying a pair of these, then. ;)


It looks like you are aligning the acoustic centers of the drivers in that photo of the system.I DID pay attention, but in this case, it's just where they sit vertical without fallin' off.... :p

[4313B]

No harm in trying a pair of these, then. ;)No but they have nothing to do with Lansing.

I thought you had finally settled on the 2452H-SL and the waveguides it bolted to? :blink:

***

I see where you guys are coming from:


http://www.parts-express.com/product_ratings/img/stars50.gifOne of the best 1-inch compression driver
Sunday, July 13, 2008
aces of heart from NJ
Smooth and engaging when partnered with the cheap 18sound horn or the Renkus Heinz waveguide. Same performance of the Beyma CP-380M which costs $50 more. I like this B&C better than BMS or Radian


http://www.parts-express.com/product_ratings/img/stars50.gifHigh performance
Tuesday, March 25, 2008
ttan98 from Australia
I bought this unit 1 month ago, and I am very pleased with it, it is smooth sounding and like most compr. driver it is very dynamic. No hint of brightness or edginess even when new.

It is also compatible with the cheap PE horn(10" diameter horn), the combo sounds quite good.It is good enough to partner with more expensive horns.


http://www.parts-express.com/product_ratings/img/stars45.gifLove that Italian cooking!
Wednesday, October 10, 2007
Bill Epstein from 70 Miles From Nowhere: Mansfield, Ohio
Having gone thru Altec 802 and 902, JBL 2426, Eminence PSD-2002 and, most recently, B&Cs own DE-200, I can say that this is the best performing 1" format driver to date.

Lovely, extended upper treble with only a very slight "awww" coloration in female voice with both SET and push-pull tube amplification. With Martinelli Woodhorns quite close to the natural tone of the JBL 2446 2" thru 2360 horns I also have on hand. And that system needs a 2405 to get the same extension.

I'm using them for home audio perched on top of the JBL 2226 in a 4 cu. ft box, crossed at 1.6K 3rd order, 10db attenuation and extremely pleased with the result.

4 performance stars only because I haven't heard the Radian/Emilar.


http://www.parts-express.com/product_ratings/img/stars50.gifExcellent drivers
Tuesday, October 2, 2007
Barry W from Asheville, NC
Very good sounding drivers that provide near flat response with minimal EQ. Was huge upgrade over OEM drivers. Highly recommended.

[Zilch]

No but they have nothing to do with Lansing.

I thought you had finally settled on the 2452H-SL and the waveguides it bolted to? :blink:

Yes, of course, but the present question is what horn/waveguide is suitably mated with/in 4507, and this inexpensive modern waveguide fits. It's 2-bolt and mounts to 2425H/J (are all of them 2-bolt compatible like mine?), but requires adaption for use with 2426H/J; two mounting holes could be drilled and tapped into the removable driver flange for that, but the driver itself should probably be independently supported.


I'm still stuck buying the thousand dollar stuff from JBL that is being made in Northridge, U.S.A.There IS that, too.... ;)

[badman]

Yes, of course, but the present question is what horn/waveguide is suitably mated with/in 4507, and this inexpensive modern waveguide fits. It's 2-bolt and mounts to 2425H/J (are all of them 2-bolt compatible like mine?), but requires adaption for use with 2426H/J; two mounting holes could be drilled and tapped into the removable driver flange for that, but the driver itself should probably be independently supported.


That's the big question for me- finding a 3 bolt, low diffraction, well-designed horn. Right now I'm making my own but would love something like the QSC stuff with a mounting for the 2426h. Shame to have to go with a different driver when I have a lovely pair of these.

[Rudy Kleimann]

2352 and 2452H-SL maybe :hmm:

I have 2352's and 53's, and 2447,2452, and 2452H-SL's... won't bolt up, at least with 4 bolts. The throat is too wide to accomodate the 3-1/4" bolt pattern of the 2452,'s the newest 2453, or any of the 3" diaphragm 243x drivers. Sorry. You could get two opposing bolts to go through, but the other two will be skirting the outside of the wall of the wider dimension of the throat/diffraction slot.

You need a horn with no diffraction slot, or one that has the diffraction slot right at the throat of the horn, like those small metal JBL 2332 horns (90*) used in the DMS-1 and a few pro systems, or the 2333 (60*) version of it. Or, one of the later horns, like PT-Fxxxx, PT-Hxxxx, or newer -if you can get any.