Popping HF sound!

[JBL 4645]

Well I’ll cut to the chase! Basically I have this elusive popping sound on the Marantz 1050 left front HF it’s a mild popping that is cursed by the refrigerator when shutting off or is it when starting up as well.

I need to isolate/resolve this as its not a good thing especially on the HF side. I think its bypassing.

Note: it is on the start-up and shut down on the refrigerator.

I need to get this sorted.

I’ve just timed the refrigerator and undone the HF lead from the DCX2496 and waited 10 minutes before shutting off. It’s the HF left channel lead that needs sorting. Then again it might be the input left channel on the DCX2496 I’ll have to wait for the refrigerator to start-up again and undone the left front input to the DCX2496 and see which part needs sorting.

It’s a good thing the popping hasn’t buggered up HF diaphragm or at least I don’t have the Marantz 1050 up high enough otherwise I would be in trouble.

I have no clue at what the frequency is that is passing though to the HF it has to be lower than 1Khz.:dont-know

I’m not sure if I mentioned this fault before a few years ago when I was living in the sh!t hole dump. I did notice that the left side had popping issue. Maybe it’s the fault with the DCX2496 or I need a simple affordable filter to resolve this.

I have one of those (filter thingy’s) for the mains plugs and it does sod all! It’s a good thing I didn’t buy an expensive one.


It could be (one of a few items that needs isolating). Its not your typical buzzing/humming sound that is constant. This issue only starts up now and then and it can take hours to see which part of the system needs sorting.:banghead:

I’ll let you know as and when I’ve sorted the issue. If I can sort it that is!

bop anyone please move to genreal forum I've posted in the wrong forum.

Thanks :)

[SEAWOLF97]

Is it a Lucas refrigerator ?

[hjames]

Sounds like you need a good AC Noise filter - Plug it into the wall, plug the fridge into its outlet, and trap the noise at the source ...

Something like this - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330313198398

or like this

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150332761316

But, of course, you need the UK equivalent ...

I had to plug my Philips HDTV into one of those to cut the power supply noise from affecting other gear in the house ...


Well I’ll cut to the chase! Basically I have this elusive popping sound on the Marantz 1050 left front HF it’s a mild popping that is cursed by the refrigerator when shutting off or is it when starting up as well.

I need to isolate/resolve this as its not a good thing especially on the HF side. I think its bypassing.

Note: it is on the start-up and shut down on the refrigerator.

I need to get this sorted.

I’ll let you know as and when I’ve sorted the issue. If I can sort it that is!

bop anyone please move to genreal forum I've posted in the wrong forum.

Thanks :)

[JBL 4645]

Is it a Lucas refrigerator ?

:rotfl:

No is not it’s not Lucas THX approved damn! :D

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg90/SecretSunBlog/indy-board08.jpg

The refrigerator has just started back up again and the popping wasn’t as loud since I unplugged the HF lead from the DCX2496 earlier on, its got me thinking?

I’ve now disconnected the left input lead and now waiting for the refrigerator to shut-off.

Now listening to Madonna right channel only!

I know capacitors store and discharge electrical spikes and maybe disconnecting and re-connecting did something? I’ll find out sooner or enough, I will solve this issue!

[JBL 4645]

Bugger :banghead: I was just taking a leak a piss in the bog :D while carefully listening out for the popping sound on the HF!

I heard it just as the refrigerator shut-off! So its not the input lead to the DCX2496.

I’ll wait for it to happen again and this has been going on of months now. I’ll disconnect one of the other leads going to the Marantz 1050 that powers the overhead surrounds channels and see if its not that lead that is the curse of this issue, maybe then again maybe not.

This can take hours and why didn't I sort this out months ago...sigh

[JBL 4645]

Sounds like you need a good AC Noise filter - Plug it into the wall, plug the fridge into its outlet, and trap the noise at the source ...

Something like this - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330313198398

or like this

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150332761316

But, of course, you need the UK equivalent ...

I had to plug my Philips HDTV into one of those to cut the power supply noise from affecting other gear in the house ...

Yeah cheers I’ll ask D.J. Electronics later this week if he has anything like this.

If I disconnected the refrigerator or shut it off at the mains issue sorted! Then again its going to ruin the frozen food, not such a good idea.:D

It’s the discharge of the frequency spiking though the mains and passing along or onto the same (wall mains that’s on the same path as the living room).

[SEAWOLF97]

Ummm, no ....Lucas Electrical Company aka..The Prince of Darkness

famous to all British car & bike owners.

[hjames]

Ummm, no ....Lucas Electrical Company aka..The Prince of Darkness

famous to all British car & bike owners.
Ash isn't a car (or bike) guy ...

in the 70s, Lucas electrics were worthy of excessive cursing,
due to gross unreliability

Thus prompting jokes such as:

Q - Why do the British drink warm beer?
A - Because they have Lucas refrigerators

I had various british cars and bikes, so I know the truth of this joke ... - (Triumph 500 and 75o twins and even a Norton Featherbed, plus MGBGT and some other dreck)

[JBL 4645]

Ummm, no ....Lucas Electrical Company aka..The Prince of Darkness

famous to all British car & bike owners.

Oh, I see, that Lucas. I thought it was this guy putting electronic Gremlins into THX products to Force owners to upgrade! LOL
http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp320/bennyd302/george.jpg
I do have lighter humours side too me.:D

Now here’s a strange one? The refrigerator has shut-off but I didn’t notice the popping. Other nights past I couldn’t be asked to notice! Tonight it started to get my attention! Now I’m listening out for it!

It’s as if it happens when it wants too?

I’ll see what D.J. has in store this week because this shouldn’t be happening.

Is it this guy who is the prince of evil? You’re a funny bugger Tom.:D

http://hospitalpost.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/rolf_lucas.jpg

[JBL 4645]

Ash isn't a car (or bike) guy ...

in the 70s, Lucas electrics were worthy of excessive cursing,
due to gross unreliability

Thus prompting jokes such as:

Q - Why do the British drink warm beer?
A - Because they have Lucas refrigerators

I had various british cars and bikes, so I know the truth of this joke ... - (Triumph 500 and 75o twins and even a Norton Featherbed, plus MGBGT and some other dreck)

:rotfl:

Okay I get the joke now. Maybe I have Lucas parts on it?:D


It’s called a Fridgemaster I’ve had since more or less when I moved in, its brand new.

What I’d like to do is find out which audio equipment it’s affecting as its maze of gear all daisy-chained.

It could be one or two many items that’s prone to picking up the electrical spike noise on the mains from the refrigerator, the Fridgemaster.

[JBL 4645]

Popping spike has returned! :banghead:

I’ve disconnected leads from the Pioneer VSP-200 that does the left/right and more! From the DCX2496 inputs as well as disconnecting the inputs leads to the VSP-200.

See if this works!

Have switched to Dolby stereo while centre and monaural surrounds plays, Madonna!

I’m going to make some Alien noodles because this whole thing is making me feel peckish.

I’ve just noticed that most of the audio gear doesn’t have an Earth lead. Only few items has an Earth wire hmmm.

[JBL 4645]

I just noticed a softer spike on the centre channel, now then! This was with the leads disconnected on the Pioneer VSP-200 going tto the DCX2496 I think I’m making some headway here.

Audio equipment with an Earth lead

Alesis RA300 (main power source for LF LCR and LFE.1 and centre back surround arrays)

Marantz 1050 and 1030 (main power source for HF LCR and overhead surround arrays)

Realistic audio mixer (mainly used a channel balancer for LCRS/LFE.1 that is independently distributed to
Eltax A-12R sub bass for sub bass extension of LCRS) (LFE.1 is sent off via its own seprate channel on audio mixer same for the LCRS)

Behringer DCX2496 (loudspeaker management crossover system for LCR fronts)

Behringer FBQ2496 (parametric EQ for LFE.1 JBL 4645 and Eltax A-12R each channel EQ separately)

Audio equipment without an Earth lead

Kenwood KRF-X9050D THX select Dolby stereo pro-logic II digital / dts / SRS (this is brains of the audio decoding)

Yamaha DSR-70 Dolby stereo pro-logic (processing the surrounds as preamp for sidewall arrays centre back and overhead surround. as well as sub bass extension)

Yamaha DSP-100 Dolby surround DSP acoustical processor (processing or acting as preamp for the centre channel and sub bass extension)

JVC SEA E-30EQ (wired in loop to double the EQ filter that is acting as hiss high frequency filter for JBL 4645)

Technics SH-8055 (EQ’ing the centre front and centre back surround arrays)

Technics SH-8058 (EQ’ing the left and right fronts)

Genexxa EQ (EQ’ing or doubling up as second EQ for the sidewall surrounds has I have huge middle band peaks.)

Marnatz EQ551 (EQ’ing the sidewall surround arrays)

Ferguson videostar NICAM725 digital Hi-Fi stereo VCR (this rarely gets used today)
Pioneer CLD-1750 laserdisc (Gets used frequently)

Pioneer DV-525 DVD/CD (mostly used)

Cello DVD-RW/CD DR-810 (mostly used)

That’s the total rundown on what is Earth connected and what isn’t.

Edit no that didn’t sort it! I noticed the popping sound on the left front HF!


Edit: no that didn’t sort it! I noticed the popping sound on the left front HF!
One part of the audio gear has to be the weakest link for this issue?

[westend]

The two most common causes that come to mind as a result of mains power deviances are: power supply in a device passing DC into the signal and hence, to the speakers or a problem with a driver, itself, like a loose or damaged dome on a tweeter.

A couple of things stand out from your posts. The problem is now evident in the center channel so a damaged speaker is probably not at fault. You are also powering a lot of gear. Have you tabulated what kind of draw you have and if that is all going from one mains circuit? If all the gear is being powered from a shared circuit with other devices, you might need some power regulation for the audio gear. An UPS might eliminate all your troubles.

About the Lucas Electricals and Brit cars:Yes, some were problematic but to say that all Lucas branded products were of poor quality is a bad generalization, IMO. More to that issue could be the composition and nature of the wiring and lack of proper looming in those vintage of cars. I worked on many of these cars, in the day, and sometimes wish that our later models had the simplicity of their older forebearers, Lucas, or not. ;)

[JBL 4645]

westend

Interesting! I’m positive my titanium dome tweeters are intact, unless otherwise how can one found out if it is damaged because its playing fine as do the rest CR of the LCR.

I just got back from a mates and turned on the JBL system stroked my cat and the flipping popping still comes in now and then due to the fridge.

I also had so much on my mind today that I missed popping over to D.J to ask about a filter device to sort this. It’s been a really hot warm day 28° and 15° by night time.

Now that you mentioned the power supply its on the same circuit that powers the kitchen hence the refrigerator.

I’m rather surprised that I haven’t tipped the (circuit breakers).

I can’t understand why I haven’t noticed the popping on the surrounds or sub bass speakers? Some part of the audio gear is prone to receiving the electrical noise but which?

I think it’s the Marantz 1050 that powers the L/R HF what I’m going to try is by switching the lead from Marantz 1050 left HF and re-plug cables so that the Alesis RA300 powers the HF only as test to determine whether there is fault or that Marantz 1050 is prone to picking up electrical noise in the mains?


As for the Lucas thingy I seem to recall now that there was (Lucas car parts shop) in Holdernhurst Road, Bournemouth many years, oh many years its gone now its got new buildings standing on where it used to be.

Thanks for the post.:)

What’s a UPS I have few ideas on the last two letters Power Supply.

[hjames]

The Lucas thing was an old joke - ... no real harm meant, I mean - everything is better since the 70s, right??
Even the MiniCoopers got better since then (just kidding)!

Now, back to the troubles in Bournmoth ...

The popping on your hifi, its still happening, right.
It may be a new thing if the fridge is worn, perhaps a part like the compressor is old, many possibilities ...

IS there a way to put the audio gear on a different circuit than the fridge?

Maybe a way to unplug the fridge for a half hour or so and see if the pops stop? As long as you don't open the fridge the food should stay cold for a half hour, right?

Thinking of troubleshooting techniques before you go buy a filter ...



I just got back ... and the flipping popping still comes in now and then due to the fridge.

I also had so much on my mind today that I missed popping over to D.J to ask about a filter device to sort this. It’s been a really hot warm day 28° and 15° by night time.

Now that you mentioned the power supply its on the same circuit that powers the kitchen hence the refrigerator.

I’m rather surprised that I haven’t tipped the (circuit breakers).

I can’t understand why I haven’t noticed the popping on the surrounds or sub bass speakers? Some part of the audio gear is prone to receiving the electrical noise but which?

I think it’s the Marantz 1050 that powers the L/R HF what I’m going to try is by switching the lead from Marantz 1050 left HF and re-plug cables so that the Alesis RA300 powers the HF only as test to determine whether there is fault or that Marantz 1050 is prone to picking up electrical noise in the mains?

[JBL 4645]

The Lucas thing was an old joke - ... no real harm meant, I mean - everything is better since the 70s, right??
Even the MiniCoopers got better since then (just kidding)!

Now, back to the troubles in Bournmoth ...

The popping on your hifi, its still happening, right.
It may be a new thing if the fridge is worn, perhaps a part like the compressor is old, many possibilities ...

IS there a way to put the audio gear on a different circuit than the fridge?

Maybe a way to unplug the fridge for a half hour or so and see if the pops stop? As long as you don't open the fridge the food should stay cold for a half hour, right?

Thinking of troubleshooting techniques before you go buy a filter ...

Yeah its still there! I mentioned this to a friend and he agrees the fridge needs a (filter) on its end.

I’m just not in the money at the moment! I’ll have to sweat it out for a few more weeks till I can afford it.

I the meantime I’m drifting off my own topic, I’ll start a new one. The downstairs neighbour is giving me heat because of the (SPL db frequency level).:o:

I seriously need to get this room soundproofed from floor to wall to wall all the way around! If I can reduce incoming sounds to a minimum then it should be working in the opposite way… maybe?

Okay if I can find a cheap filter I’ll spend a few bob on it.

[boputnam]

Now that you mentioned the power supply its on the same circuit that powers the kitchen hence the refrigerator.That was my hunch, Ashley. Need to fix that.


I’m rather surprised that I haven’t tipped the (circuit breakers).You're not overloading the circuit - it's just the noisy chiller motor.

[lgvenable]

Ash

I isolated all my equipment by adding an isolated 15 kVA transfomer. That'll give you 5 to 6 20A circuits. it requires a 100amp breaker off the mains, feeding a primary coil (in us=120/240V). The 2nd transformer has its own isolated ground. Then the 5 20A secondarys at 120V.

Once plugged in to the 2nd transformer, the audio equipment is COMPLETELY isolated from every mother loving fan ,computer, clock, or electrical device.

Results>>>>bingo all hums eliminated, and I have 15 amps, so it works. It also helps to use balanced audio connections only. But the you knew that.:D

I worked on these problems for two years, this solved all issues associated with hum and electrical interference, and is sure fire >> at a cost of 400US.;)

[JBL 4645]

Ash

I isolated all my equipment by adding an isolated 15 kVA transfomer. That'll give you 5 to 6 20A circuits. it requires a 100amp breaker off the mains, feeding a primary coil (in us=120/240V). The 2nd transformer has its own isolated ground. Then the 5 20A secondarys at 120V.

Once plugged in to the 2nd transformer, the audio equipment is COMPLETELY isolated from every mother loving fan ,computer, clock, or electrical device.

Results>>>>bingo all hums eliminated, and I have 15 amps, so it works. It also helps to use balanced audio connections only. But the you knew that.:D

I worked on these problems for two years, this solved all issues associated with hum and electrical interference, and is sure fire >> at a cost of 400US.;)



Hmm that’s good sounding news and I still haven’t gotten the bug sorted and I’m surprised my HF hasn’t got done in. If I have the amp turned up high for the HF side it would be curtains!

I’ll take a note of this and ask around at the nearby electrical store.

Humming on your side will be cantered around 60Hz and 50Hz over here. I can see the odd 50Hz noise filtering onto the Spectrumlab sometimes and I’m scratching my head, on pondering where the heck its coming from?

There must be dodgy lead I have or its sneaking onto the output from the AVR?

There must be dodgy lead I have or its sneaking onto the output from the AVR?
It doesn’t happen all the time, its got a strange habit, some days, it likes to do and other days, not?? LOL yeah tell me about elusive! Huh.:dont-know


Cheers, Larry :cheers:

[Mike Caldwell]

How close physically is the fridge to your audio equipment. Maybe it's not transmitted through the power but as an RF spike created from an arcing contact in the fridges thermostat switch. Many times there will be a small cap placed across the contacts of a switch to reduce arcing.

[JBL 4645]

How close physically is the fridge to your audio equipment. Maybe it's not transmitted through the power but as an RF spike created from an arcing contact in the fridges thermostat switch. Many times there will be a small cap placed across the contacts of a switch to reduce arcing.

It runs on the same electrical mains circuit that powers the mains plug sockets around the flat, if that helps.

The fridge is located in the kitchen next to the living room. I don’t think? There is a (mains plug) that isn’t on the same circuit that runs the (mains sockets around the flat) that I can plug it into and isolate the issue.

By that I mean a socket that is not on the same, circuit.

I can look around again and see if, I’ve overlooked something as simple that might have eluded me?

As for (arching) the heater last year, the mains supply that feeds the night storage heater, all the wiring (caked-up) wow what a mess inside LOL.

Odd this didn’t curse any noise on the sound system because it runs on different circuit.

[JBL 4645]

I just chatted to my dad on the phone and he says it might need a (suppressor) and that might cost a few pounds, and then again it might not solve it.

Hmm, a (suppressor) a (suppressor). sigh

He might also think its something I’ve done. Well I’ve undone all the leads and re-checked this last year. Why the (left channel) at most its puzzling.

Now this kinder happened at last digs I was at. I wonder if it has something to do with the Marantz 1050 powering the HF or maybe it’s the Behringer DCX2496 or maybe the Kenwood KRF-X9050D THX.

Or maybe cheap cables I use.:p

[lgvenable]

Exactly right @ 50/60 cycle=hum in us

Alternately you can use a Behringer HD400 hum destroyer to isolate the signal , it does a unbalanced>balanced or vice versa conversion for that equipment. It DID work as well, at say 25usd. It just got crazy after 7 amps.:D

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/HD400.aspx

An isolated transformer is the best solution, just expensive, and requires adding a 2nd electrical relay box with the new 20A isolated circuits, all to code.

[JBL 4645]

I think it would only clear up the humming that is very mild and the amps for the LF are not at full level (only what is needed for the room at present) Hum is not really noticeable I’d have to but my ear right up close to the speakers.

But still there shouldn’t be any hum what so ever!

[lgvenable]

Prior to getting the Integra DHC80.1 pre-pro, with all balanced audio out to the amps; I had RCA out's from a Denon 3806 , and the hum was like a buzz-saw. Here's the rub; lots of folks will give suggestions; my two references were what worked for me; the only two real solutions I ever found.
Larry

[JBL 4645]

Prior to getting the Integra DHC80.1 pre-pro, with all balanced audio out to the amps; I had RCA out's from a Denon 3806 , and the hum was like a buzz-saw. Here's the rub; lots of folks will give suggestions; my two references were what worked for me; the only two real solutions I ever found.
Larry

Buzzsaw! Now that doesn't sound healthy at all.:p

http://shittymovienight.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/RM-11-Buzzsaw.JPG

How long did it take to locate and isolate the offending humming?

I stayed up 24 hours round to the clock years, ago with a similar buzzsaw like humming. Yeah it only turned out to be the Earth lead on the TV. So I removed the earth lead and bingo no more buzzsaw!

It was producing the noise all over the front speakers! :banghead:

It also seems that every time we install new PA or amp gear it produces a humming into the sound chain! sigh
Is there a conspiracy!:D

[herki the cat]

Buzzsaw! Now that doesn't sound healthy at all.:p
How long did it take to locate and isolate the offending humming?

I stayed up 24 hours round to the clock years, ago with a similar buzzsaw like humming. Yeah it only turned out to be the Earth lead on the TV. So I removed the earth lead and bingo no more buzzsaw!

It was producing the noise all over the front speakers! :banghead:

It also seems that every time we install new PA or amp gear it produces a humming into the sound chain! sigh
Is there a conspiracy!:D

Sir 2JBL 464585348 your post is very confusing. Are you saying the Fridge Pop Problem has been resolved. Please advise.

herki the cat

[JBL 4645]

Sir 2JBL 464585348 your post is very confusing. Are you saying the Fridge Pop Problem has been resolved. Please advise.

herki the cat

No its far from being resolved!!!!

[boputnam]

It also seems that every time we install new PA or amp gear it produces a humming into the sound chain! sigh Is there a conspiracy!:DUh, yes there is. You have a ground loop somewhere "upstream" from your amplifiers. So, you need to find the offending piece of gear.

First - is everything plugged into the same AC circuit? You need to get all the stereo / TV gear into it's own, dedicated circuit. I don't know if that's possible (or safe...) with all your gear but do make sure no refrigerators, toasters or dimmer switches are on that circuit.

Once done, if you really want to tackle this "hum", you need to start at the end (the speakers) with everything disconnected, and work backwards, slowly connecting one thing in at a time.

[lgvenable]

Ash

I isolated all my equipment by adding an isolated 15 kVA transfomer. That'll give you 5 to 6 20A circuits. it requires a 100amp breaker off the mains, feeding a primary coil (in us=120/240V). The 2nd transformer has its own isolated ground. Then the 5 20A secondarys at 120V.

Once plugged in to the 2nd transformer, the audio equipment is COMPLETELY isolated from every mother loving fan ,computer, clock, or electrical device.

Results>>>>bingo all hums eliminated, and I have 15 amps, so it works. It also helps to use balanced audio connections only. But the you knew that.:D

I worked on these problems for two years, this solved all issues associated with hum and electrical interference, and is sure fire >> at a cost of 400US.;)

This is EXACTLY what I suggested, and how I fixed all ground loop issues in a multi-amp system.:D
L

[JBL 4645]

Uh, yes there is. You have a ground loop somewhere "upstream" from your amplifiers. So, you need to find the offending piece of gear.

First - is everything plugged into the same AC circuit? You need to get all the stereo / TV gear into it's own, dedicated circuit. I don't know if that's possible (or safe...) with all your gear but do make sure no refrigerators, toasters or dimmer switches are on that circuit.

Once done, if you really want to tackle this "hum", you need to start at the end (the speakers) with everything disconnected, and work backwards, slowly connecting one thing in at a time.

bop

Now that has given me a “Brainstorm” and I think I may have found an answer, now.

The main’s that supplies the sockets feed that comes off a different circuit breaker that does hallway kitchen bedroom and living room are all on the same line.

Now the mains that powers the heaters in the kitchen and bathroom was disconnected or least I didn’t want those fans installed because I don’t see the need in running kilowatts to heat the kitchen and bathroom up, just waste of electric!

Okay, all I need to do is buy a few smaller meters of (cable trunking mains cable) screw it up to the corner of the kitchen and run along the corner of the ceiling over to where the refrigerator is. Attach a new (mains plug socket) to the wall, plug in the refrigerator and hope it doesn’t send the spark like noise onto the mains plug supply, that end up coming out the left front channel.

Plan A
4 meters of mains cable
4 meters of cable trunking
x1 mains power socket

This should cost no more than £15.00 pounds.

Note: the mains power circuit breakers. Top right hand-side is, the mains/breaker for the fan heater kitchen and bathroom only. Only its not being used to power the heaters its been idle for nearly 3 years now.

Note: top power mains socket in the kitcken now that is where I’ll get the mains off this to, supply the refrigerator.

Note: the refrigerator as if no one as seen one before, LOL note the mains socket, now this is on the same line that does all the mains power sockets around the flat.

The socket beside it powers the washing machine which is on the same circuit line, so no sense in getting the power off that for the refrigerator is, there now.

Note: the mains circuit breaker on the lower right hand side. Now that supplies the night storage heaters hallway bedroom and living room, so I’m not messing with that!

Note: the mains circuit breaker centre or at the top. Now that supplies the mains sockets living room hallway kitchen (cooker washing machine) and bedroom. Also the smoke alarm and lighting in, hallway kitchen bathroom bedroom and living room.

Plan B
I could cut the cost even lower by, buying an extension power mains lead. Take the plug off and place a connector to the mains (live neutral and Earth) run the cable around to the refrigerator and bingo.

But I might as well make it neat so I’m going with plan A.

Its only just been eluding me for over a year now.:banghead::D

I had the same issue when I had the home cinema system in the bedroom with the same popping sound.

[herki the cat]

bop

Now that has given me a “Brainstorm” and I think I may have found an answer, now... via planA..
This should cost no more than £15.00 pounds.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think you are saying you may be able to salvage at least one circuit breaker to dedicate to an isolated trunk direct to the fridge outlet socket to provide the 240 volt power wires plus a dedicated ground wire direct from the grounding strap in the power entrance panel box, to the fridge wall outlet. This is perfect. You will be confining the fridge pop source. This is indeed very professional.

This will allow you to investigate the hum problems one step at a time as suggested by our mr Boputnam in post #29.

best of luck herki the cat

[JBL 4645]

Now that has given me a “Brainstorm” and I think I may have found an answer, now... via plan A..
This should cost no more than £15.00 pounds.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think you are saying you may be able to salvage at least one circuit breaker to dedicate to an isolated trunk direct to the fridge outlet socket to provide the 240 volt power wires plus a dedicated ground wire direct from the grounding strap in the power entrance panel box, to the fridge wall outlet. This is perfect. You will be confining the fridge pop source. This is indeed very professional.

This will allow you to investigate the hum problems one step at a time as suggested by our mr Boputnam in post #29.

best of luck herki the cat

I'll let you know if, it works or not on Wednesday.

[JBL 4645]

I got the parts that I need. I’ll knock this up later on in the day.

Well under the £15.00 mark at £11.30.

[JBL 4645]

I’ve taking a break for a short while.

So far I’ve got this much done and all I need to do is run the next piece of cable trunking along towards the refrigerator, then attach the mains power socket.

And finally test it to see if, it does in fact isolate the refrigerator from inducing a noise into the mains that supplies the power sockets around the flat

[JBL 4645]

The Refrigerator Project. :D

[JBL 4645]

Okay I just finished ”The Refrigerator Project.”

I used some “Hard As Nails” pumped into the wall, so the wall-plug can get an extra tight grip, on the screw fixings.

I’ve cleaned up the mess, before Sooty starts stiffing around in curiosity at it.:D

I’ve heard the Refrigerator (turn off) and so far no “popping sound” I’ll wait till it switches back on so a short while of silence to listen out for it!

[JBL 4645]

Well I was just placing the switch plate over the original kitchen heater socket and I, heard the Refrigerator switch ON (while listening for the popping sound) no hint of it. Looks like I got the bugger sorted and all for just £11.30.:bouncy:

[herki the cat]

Well I was just placing the switch plate over the original kitchen heater socket and I, heard the Refrigerator switch ON (while listening for the popping sound) no hint of it. Looks like I got the bugger sorted and all for just £11.30.:bouncy:

Awesome! You know what, If you have a spare circuit breaker in your AC Power entrance panel, try running the same identical dedicated AC power star configuration __ ( just like the fridge AC Star feeder line) __ with isolated dedicated safety ground wire to your power amplifier wall AC outlets.

You will see the same order of improvement in the audio system__ provided there are "no forbidden by-pass filter capacitors" bridged from the hot 240 Volt lines to the amplifier metal cabinets which cause AC hum ground loops". Connect the power amplifier metal cabinets or metal chassis to the star safety ground wire

When you clean up the power amplifiers entity, then proceed to the preamp & CD player etc group with the same star AC power configuration.

herki

[JBL 4645]

Awesome! You know what, If you have a spare circuit breaker in your AC Power entrance panel, try running the same identical dedicated AC power star configuration __ ( just like the fridge AC Star feeder line) __ with isolated dedicated safety ground wire to your power amplifier wall AC outlets.

You will see the same order of improvement in the audio system__ provided there are "no forbidden by-pass filter capacitors" bridged from the hot 240 Volt lines to the amplifier metal cabinets which cause AC hum ground loops". Connect the power amplifier metal cabinets or metal chassis to the star safety ground wire

When you clean up the power amplifiers entity, then proceed to the preamp & CD player etc group with the same star AC power configuration.

herki

I’ll look into that with careful steps.

Cheers;)

What I’ve done is no big deal it’s only eluded me, for only a year and bit. sigh

[boputnam]

What I’ve done is no big deal it’s only eluded me, for only a year and bit. sighWay to go, herki and Ashley! :applaud:

[JBL 4645]

Way to go, herki and Ashley! :applaud:
bop cheers:)
Yeah I’m still enjoying (popping clear free interference).

You know that is the type of thing that can do damage to HF.

[grumpy]

Nice going. Has to be a relief after all that time.

Why do I have visions of a Mr. Tuttle (or was it Buttle) working
on your central air? ;)

[herki the cat]

bop.... cheers:)

Yeah I’m still enjoying (no popping clearly free of interference).

Hello JBL 4645; I have seen your posts regarding "Avatar" exhibited in the UK & the prevailing venue situations there .... "Avatar" was produced here at the Awesome Sky walker Lucas Ranch facility described in this Link:

http: (http://www.skysound.com/)//www.skysound.com/ (http://www.skysound.com/)

Everyone on the west coast who saw this wonderful production in the SkywWalker Lucas Theater has remarked about the superb audio quality in "Avatar," This is all about Professional Commercial Quality Business Equipment, so relax & enjoy; At home we be content with the "Everest Speaker System" & our priceless vintage gems.
.
Mr. Bruce Brisson, CEO of "MIT..Music Interface Technologies Inc., owns 100 percent of the world's important patents on speaker cables & interconnects which have been used extensively in the SkyWalker studio production of Avatar as well as the SkyWalker Lucas Theater exhibiting "Avatar" ..... This next link:

http://www.xlrtechs.com/dbkeele.com/ (http://www.xlrtechs.com/dbkeele.com/)

Opens with a picture of the Massive JBL Five-Channel Speaker system in the Skywalker Lucas theater which is equipped 100 percent with "MIT Inc., Speaker Cables, Interconnects & several Awesome MIT "Z Bar" Power Conditioners" which Shunt the AC Power feeds with a Broad Band Passive Resistance of "five ohms " over the complete Spectrum just above 60 Hz all the way out to 20,000 Hz which is extremely efficient dealing with power line noise... without a doubt, the best the industry has to offer. I have three of these "Z Center" MIT Power conditioners, I love them.

You must see how they did it in this extensive Link, which describes the close technology relations between SkyWalker Management & Engineers working with "MIT Technologies CEO, Mr. Bruce Brisson, in this wonderful story of:

MITat theMOVIES @http://www.mitcables.co.nz/pdf/mit_movies.pdf (http://www.mitcables.co.nz/pdf/mit_movies.pdf)

cheers herki

[JBL 4645]

That’s a fascinating story from / Electro-Voice to Klipsch to JBL. I take it he had something to do with the 2360-A compression driver/horn system.:D

I first saw this picture 21 years ago in Boxoffice magazine. I guess that picture really put the hook me, to go to London and listen to real top dog JBL professional sound system at the Empire.

Now listen up! I'm only going to say this once!:p
http://www.xlrtechs.com/dbkeele.com/images/front/images/front_r1_c2.jpghttp://www.xlrtechs.com/dbkeele.com/images/front/images/front_r2_c3.jpg

[JBL 4645]

Oracle V1.3 Speaker Cable
:blink::blink:£20,795.73:blink::blink:

http://www.mitcables.co.uk/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/Oracle_V1.3_Spea_4a6de31dddfb8.jpg

Don't they mean £20.00 pounds!:p Looks like someone as added one to many figures to this device. I bet when you open it up its not all that impressive.

$20 grand are they $%)kibng kidding!

[herki the cat]

That’s a fascinating story from / Electro-Voice to Klipsch to JBL. I take it he had something to do with the 2360-A compression driver/horn system.:D


I first saw this picture 21 years ago in Boxoffice magazine. I guess that picture really put the hook me, to go to London and listen to real top dog JBL professional sound system at the Empire.

Now listen up! I'm only going to say this once!:p
http://www.xlrtechs.com/dbkeele.com/images/front/images/front_r1_c2.jpghttp://www.xlrtechs.com/dbkeele.com/images/front/images/front_r2_c3.jpg

Well, :dont-know = I donno, Steve Schell is not one to mince his words, & he speaks very highly of the JBL 2360-A horn. I have not been to any new Multiplex Theaters since Star Wars. I went back stage and saw they still had a three channel Altec Speaker System with Altec 210-A low frequency horns & a total of QTY (12) Altec 515-B drivers, manificient sound. The surround speakers on the walls were OK.

[JBL 4645]

Well things didn’t start to change till around early 1980’s with newer JBL components. The 4675-A has been around since 82. Wow blimey I guess that is still one of JBL best cinema loudspeaker products, even to this day.

Altec they’ve also introduced new cinema PA loudspeakers around the early 80’s?

[JBL 4645]

Update.

While “the popping“ has been isolated from the refrigerator it hasn’t been isolated from the mains in the living room enough so that if I was to switch off one of the other amps it causes a small popping sound on the same left front channel.

Oh, well can’t have it both ways. :p Since I power down the amps first rather than processors first which would cause a few issues. I’m not particularly bothered as long as it doesn’t sound from, the refrigerator.

I could look it over again and see what part of the mains is sending the spike popping to the Marnatz 1050 amp. It can’t be passing though the DCX2496 otherwise I’d see the one of the LED lighting up.

The issue lies with Marantz 1050 that powers the left and right HF. I could switch the HF left and right over to the other Marantz 1050 and re-plug/wire the centre channel HF to the other Marantz 1050 and use the right input/output. sigh undoing the whole thing. sigh

[JBL 4645]

It’s returned! Hmm, elusive, but I feel the issue down to the (Marantz 1050) I guess I’d have to save up for some more Alesis RA300 or maybe an RA150 doesn’t support the XLR inputs.

I get the feeling it’s down to a rather simple filter placed inside the RA300 that prevents or suppresses the noise with some type of anti-noise filter?? Where it’s possible the Marantz 1050 doesn’t have one?

I switched off the HF over the LCR and kept the LF active and switched off one of crossover filters (not that it would make difference) I switched the kitchen florescent light ON/OFF no crackling sound head.

And yes the kitchen (florescent light) sounds on the HF or the Marantz 1050.

What can you say? Gremlins!

It’s not worrying me, one single bit anymore. I think I know what to do now. Save up and get a few more of the (original plan) matching new amplifiers long overdue!


Amp1, Alesis RA300 LF left and right front
Amp2, Alesis RA300 LF centre / full range surround back
Amp3, Alesis RA300 bridge mode JBL sub LFE.1

Amp, 4 Marantz 1050 HF left and right front
Amp, 5 Marantz 1050 HF centre / (not in use)
Amp, 6 Marantz 1030 full range left and right surrounds
Amp, 7 Processor/Dolby stereo decoder for (surround-EX), Pioneer VSP-200 overheard matrix surround

So I need to replace three Marantz amps (I am not selling so don’t ask) I’ll use them for something else maybe the bedroom?

Yes, replace the amps with newer Alesis RA300 and one RA500 for the JBL sub.

Three amps should be okay to start with, and few more later on for the extra (inner left and inner right fronts).

I’d have to re-plug the decoder for the surround-EX and use the Yamaha DRS-70Pro, if I want to use a Alesis RA300 on the, Overheard Matrix Surrounds.

So that’s, 4 amps I could cheat and use 3 amps because the centre back is monaural same as the overhead surround and would only need a stereo amp to power the loudspeakers, thou, (I’m thinking of way to piggyback the normal stereo surrounds or monaural discrete to matrix mono) onto the back half surrounds for, regular surround. A stereo amp for the back surrounds will be preferable. Same with the matrix overhead surround, got think ahead!

You might say, was it all in vain? No, because I got an extra power mains socket in the kitchen now.:p

I remember in days on the CB radio there was an anti-noise filter that was used to suppress of reduce engine spark noise that often make a crackling sound as some cars passed by produced an electrical nose that was being picked-up on my Snake, Cobra 148 GTL-DX

(ANL) Anti Noise Limiter, I think was the name for it? I just kept it switched ON all times.

Maybe I could buy a Snake, and patch to the Marantz 1050. I’d then have an extra pair of boots on Snake, >65watts :p LOL Somehow I don’t think that would work.

Just heard a small popping from the refrigerator.

What I can't figure is why only the 1050 and not the 1030 amps? It only sounds on the 1050 and wasn't the 1050 not produced later in the Marantz range?

[JBL 4645]

Additional information

Now this is kinder of eluded me! Even the CRT Panasonic when I switch it ON only produces a mild popping (kinder like crackle effect very soft in level but audible due to being a high frequency sound, hmm? What frequency I wonder? I guess its no higher than 8Hz so its narrow or a bit lower down away from peaking at 8KHz, I guess.

Its not a worrying popping loudness. Now oddly so, it doesn’t spark across the Marantz 1050 that is powering the centre channel HF. The fridge sparks and kitchen florescent light does however spark across the centre HF as well as the left and right HF (or on the other Marantz 1050 amp)

[JBL 4645]

Well I’ve had a look but that is as far as I’m going. I’m not going to upset the balance of the amp by making any adjustments unless I’m absolutely certain.

Here are a few pictures I took a short while ago of the inside of the lower amp in the rack.

[JBL 4645]

http://www.kelloggs.ca/whoweare/images/char_scp.gif
Update on snap crackle and pop. :D

The interference is still here and I tested the difference of Marantz 1050 muted at amp! Turned the crossover level right up on the DCX2496 for left front for LF so, it now gets highs. Went to kitchens switched ON the fluorescent light, listened out for the crackling sound, nope not a peep! So the fault solely lies in the Marantz 1050 circuitry, which will be on the next on the list for replacement for another Alesis RA300.

Essentially the noise is still there, yet the Alesis RA300 is filtering it. Fact is it is still there! Might as well test with cheap amps first to see if any electrical noises are present, and if that’s the case the whole electrical system needs to be first sorted out, to virtually eliminating any of the electrical Gremlins.

Then after it’s sorted you know for sure its going to be free from any of the household electrical appliance noises.

And as to silly overpriced devices a few posts up at £20grand :skeptical: now way! After you stuck so many of those in the home, you might as well take out a second mortgage on the home.

[JBL 4645]

Listening to some Ennio Morricone, music this morning stating with “Chi mai” and then the opening tittles to “The Untouchables” and the popping sound from the fridge came in after a few seconds! The SPL db meter picked up fairly well!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJp4TlCRniw

Playing this back in mono from the stereo mix, I only used the left/right fronts and the music was a bit bright on the top end then again it was around -3db on the fader.

The lows are captured nicely without boomy distortion! The SPL db meter can handle it fairy well depending SPL db range setting and the level of the sound in the room. The SPL db was set at 80dbc.

I like the score for this, so I set the sub bass extension mode to ON for the JBL which gave a so, so okay sub bass the music mix did have some compression on the percussion instruments as they slammed banged and away.

[lgvenable]

But I felt I'd post my solution to the issue and the pictures . This picture was before the sheetrock was reinstalled (which I just found in an archive file)

I previously posted;

I isolated all my equipment by adding an isolated 15 kVA transfomer. That'll give you 5 to 6 20A circuits. it requires a 60A 240V amp breaker off the mains, feeding a primary coil (in us=120/240V). The 2nd transformer has its own isolated ground (to an 8' grounding rod through my garage floor) with its own 100A 120V breaker and 5 20A secondary circuits each at 120V.

Once plugged in to the 2nd transformer, the audio equipment is COMPLETELY isolated from every mother loving fan ,computer, clock, or electrical device on the main breaker box.

Results>>>>bingo all hums eliminated, and I have 15 amps, so it works. It also helps to use balanced audio connections only. But the you knew that.

I worked on these problems for two years, this solved all issues associated with hum and electrical interference, and is sure fire >> at a cost of 400US.

See the attached picture. This completely eliminated any ground loop hum, although running the #4 wire through the conduits was tough. The 15kVA transformer was goof to 125 amps (6 x 20A) ; but as stated I'm only using 5 x 20A. You'll notice this picture was taken when 4 of the 5 20A circuits still needed to be wired in, as the yellow 12G romex going up the right side of the larger(mains) breaker box is the 5 isolated 20A circuits in the room above. You'll also notice the bottom plate hadn't been placed on the transformer either when this picture was taken.

My only comment is I might have saved a few $ by doing it myself; when when the wife & I head for retirement in Oklahoma in 9 years; I'll hire this done next time, as it occupied the better part of two weekends when I did it.:D