Specialized music room

[Valentin]

I want to shear with the forum my new project

as many know room acoustics are a important factor in what we perceive hear etc.

speakers are very important but the rooms plays a big role of the end

in the garage i have a storage room that will be transformed in and entertainment room office etc
the dimensions of the room are 5.33m x 4.11m x 2.30m
i wish i had a bigger space but you usually en up working with a preconstructed place.

here are some pictures

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c7/ValentinR/DSC_0221.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c7/ValentinR/DSC_0223.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c7/ValentinR/DSC_0224.jpg

all that stuff will be moved to a new storage room or given away

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c7/ValentinR/DSC_0220.jpg

[Valentin]

here is a sketch of what i vision will be the result

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c7/ValentinR/cuartomusicavalentin13skp.png


http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c7/ValentinR/cuartomusicavalentin13skptopview.png

[Valentin]

Front Wall

Will consist of: center panels will be 8" mineral wool pure absorption panels in gray
side panels are diaphragmatic panels tuned to around +-70hz

side walls center panels consist of quadratic diffusers 8" deep 4 x 6 foot section and a mixed diffusion absorption panel 4x4foot
top and bottom diaphragmatic panels tuned to +-100hz 2"deep units

back wall center part 5 inch pure absorption with side with 2d qrd diffusers that i already have .

the celling is still too be designed

[Audiobeer]

I envy you Valentin. That setup has all the potential of a very nice intimate listening room to get away from the world via music. That and I nice cold longneck will make your evening! What area of Mexico are you!

[Andyoz]

Looks good and you really need those 70Hz and 100Hz panel absorbers.

Shame about the ceiling height. Is the floor carpet?...if so that's enough absorption on the floor/ceiling plane. I would just make that ceiling as diffusive as you can as you don't want to kill the room entirley with too much absorption - you know the QRD's will give a little absorption as well?

[Valentin]

thanks

i am form mexico city

yes i will try too have a balanced RT time

the qrd have +-.2 absortion coeficent i have the data and will make the full room calulations

on the celling i was thinkig of some slat and some more difragmatic y and some sort of diffuseing system

still on the drwing board

i do have 6 2 by 2 foot 2d qrd 5" deep i cuold use does with the upper options

[Andyoz]

Is there any way you can measure the 1/3 octave RT's as you add the various treatments?

Once you get that reasonably flat, you can also check if the membrane absorbers are working as you expect below approx. 100Hz. It's the best way :)

The good thing about a symetrical room like yours is that the strongest room modes are easy to predict and you should be able to tune the membrane absorbers to offer peak absorbtion those frequencies. Best to measure though as membranes don't always react exactly as predicted.

[Valentin]

thanks

yes i do have measurement equipment up to 1/24 octave

yes a rectangular room is and advantage in prediction of standing waves

this are estimation of course with measurements you get the real thing

i plan to fill in all most all the volume of the diaphragmatic panels with mineral wool so that way they have a broader response at the cost of a little Les efficiency

that way intonation does not have to bee that exact

high Q intonations are tricky and too specific form my experience

[Mr. Widget]

here is a sketch of what i vision will be the result
I like it! :D

Thanks for sharing your project, I bet you will be spending a lot of time in there.:bouncy:


Widget

[Duffinator]

Very nice, please update with more photos as your project moves forward.

Maybe I missed it but what speakers are you going to use in the room?

[Valentin]

the equipment to be used is

IT WILL BE STEREO AT LEAST FOR A WHILE

2-JBL LSR6332 MAINS
2-JBL B460 CABINET WITH 2242H SUBWOOFER
1-SONY CDP X20ES CD PLAYER
1-SQUEEZBOX
1-MONARCHY UPSAMPLER 24/96
1-DEQX 2.6PHD PREAMP,EQ,XO
2 LEXICON 412 (BRYSTON 8BST) 1 FOR THE MAINS A ONE BRIDGE MODE FOR SUBS
1- PANAMAX 1500 AC FILTER

as of today the celling has been finished and is ready for treatment
i still have an issue with some humidity in one wall hope to deal with this next week

[Valentin]

here is a photo of the celling finish and ready for treatment

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c7/ValentinR/DSC_0291.jpg

[JBL 4645]

Have you done a several frequency sweeps with the room as present (a before and after thing so to speak).

Looks like a nice project. :applaud:

[Valentin]

it been slow but i think it will get faster in these days

i now have my diffusers (6 units) made the panels are easyer and i have the mineral fiber and electricity done

here are some pics of them


http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c7/ValentinR/DSC_0020.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c7/ValentinR/DSC_0024.jpg


http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c7/ValentinR/DSC_0023.jpg

[grumpy]

Will be a very pro-looking (and hopefully sounding) space :)

[midlife]

A lot of work, congrats on your efforts, should be very nice...:applaud:

[Valentin]

yes it is going to be pro looking and sonically should be very nice place to listen to music

normally pro studios tend to eliminate side wall reflections and diffuser are installed at the back wall in this design i am giving reflexions a very important place an these are being encouraged in some way

central parts of the front and back wall will be dead
there is also some broad band absorption in the lateral walls

[JBL 4645]

Yes it has been going slow but your, diffusers look nice and large.

[Mr. Widget]

there is also some broad band absorption in the lateral wallsFoam or fiberglass? (Kinda sounds like "paper or plastic..." is that only a US phenomenon?)

How deep will these panels be?


Widget

[Valentin]

Foam or fiberglass? (Kinda sounds like "paper or plastic..." is that only a US phenomenon?)

How deep will these panels be?

Mineral wool (roxul rw60) to be exact which is the one i can get down here and its cheaper than OC 703 or 705

the lateral walls broad band treatment per side (3 units of 2x4 foot) will be 4" deep plus 6 diaphragmatic tuned bass traps units with 2" of mineral wool to make the trap a little broader in response
the qrd diffusors are 9inch deep that way they will cover all the way to 300hz

the back wall central part will be covered by 4" mineral fiber panels and to the sides instead off the qrd as shown i will implement flat phase changing diffuser absorber panels

front wall central part will be 4" air 4" mineral wool and too the sides to large diaphragmatic units tune to 65 hz+-

the ceiling will have a 2d qrd 4x6 unit 5" deep which i already have at first refection point.

[Mr. Widget]

I wasn't familiar with Roxul RW60... looks very good!

Widget

[Valentin]

and in the USA check out for the Roxul AFB (acoustical fire Batt)

2.8lb/foot density

best bang for the buck


RW40 is even better than rw60 and cheaper, i cannot get it here in Mexico

i have used rw60in several installations with excellent results

[Titanium Dome]

I got the mineral wool material in my absorbers instead of the Owens-Corning glass and am very happy with it. After hearing samples of each, I was convinced mineral wool was the better option for me.

[Titanium Dome]

As a point of reference, nearly the same as Widget's chart:

[4313B]

Make sure you aren't using any of this drywall! :p

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091015/ap_on_re_us/us_chinese_drywall

[Valentin]

Thanks :)

no drywall on this project, good to know about these products bad results

:blink:

[Valentin]

here are some photos of the ceiling diffusers

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c7/ValentinR/DSC_0036.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c7/ValentinR/DSC_0034.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c7/ValentinR/DSC_0035.jpg

[Valentin]

here a some of the pictures lost in the reorganization of my pics and work being done yesterday

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c7/ValentinR/cuarto%20Arquitectura%20Aural/cuartomusicavalentin13skp.png

Room from outside

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c7/ValentinR/cuarto%20Arquitectura%20Aural/DSC_0221.jpg

as it was with no finishing
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c7/ValentinR/cuarto%20Arquitectura%20Aural/DSC_0224.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c7/ValentinR/cuarto%20Arquitectura%20Aural/DSC_0223.jpg

finished celling

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c7/ValentinR/cuarto%20Arquitectura%20Aural/DSC_0290.jpg

side wall diffusers
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c7/ValentinR/cuarto%20Arquitectura%20Aural/DSC_0035.jpg

close up
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c7/ValentinR/cuarto%20Arquitectura%20Aural/DSC_0020.jpg


celling diffusers
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c7/ValentinR/cuarto%20Arquitectura%20Aural/DSC_0034.jpg


assembly of walls diaphragmatic diffusers and absorption panels
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c7/ValentinR/cuarto%20Arquitectura%20Aural/DSC_0055-1.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c7/ValentinR/cuarto%20Arquitectura%20Aural/DSC_0054.jpg

[Mr. Widget]

I see you are still using a photo hosting site. Why not just post them here. When photos are posted into the threads here they are always available... unfortunately when people use their own website or any external site the links may get lost and we can end up with this:

[Valentin]

sorry this is my first try

i think i got it here is a photo of left and right walls

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=42965&stc=1&d=1259159815

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=42966&stc=1&d=1259160087

[Mr. Widget]

Looks good!

Keep 'em coming as you make progress.



Widget

[Valentin]

FRONT WALL IS FINISHED :applaud:

[Mr. Widget]

Looking very nicel... are those speaker stands?


Widget

[Valentin]

Looking very nicel... are those speaker stands?


Widget

yes they are specially made for the LSR6332

hope to finish this year

[Guns]

yes they are specially made for the LSR6332

hope to finish this year
Hi the stands look nice can you give me the diagrams ,photos and details on the stand as i too have LSR6332 and would like to make one like you have made.
Regarding diffuser did you make them or buy them

Regards,
Guns

[Valentin]

let me look to see if i have the plans of the stands i made them a couple of years ago

the diffusers i had them made to my specs they are 24cm deep so they can diffuse/scatter from 300 hz up

[Valentin]

here is the ceiling treatment, I already had these qrd 2d modules

[JBL 4645]

Val

Page 1

I think you need to visit photobucket for few moments to get your images active again, or other?

Is the front wall the green panels absorbent?

Other than that its slowly starting to come together.
:happyh::tree:

[Valentin]

unfurtunaly i cannot edit my post

i would have done it by now

but the same photos are latter in the thread



Is the front wall the green panels absorbent?



Yes it is 10cm roxul 10cm air and wall
front wall side pannels are difragmatic with 10cm roxul and 10 air
Brown panels are 10cm roxul
all other wood panels are diaphragmatic with 5cm roxul absorbent 5cm air in the inside

[JBL 4645]

I thought it was. yeah that kinder suck on this site. We can’t go back to fix or edit post from last year.

bop, Johnny, Rob, what is it with the editing on this site, poor ole Val, here can’t fix his first post! I have an old thread that has a load of red X and there’s no way I can fix it.

Say what about installing the speakers into the wall. "They" say it extends the lower bass plus a smother overall sound

:happyh::tree:

[Valentin]

Say what about installing the speakers into the wall. "They" say it extends the lower bass plus a smother overall sound

Yes my first design was with the LSR in wall but since the room will have all kinds of products and speakers it was more logical to design it for free standing units

LSR are design to be free standing if you put them in wall you have to eq the spectral balance of the system (i do have the eq) my decision was based in the first point

[JBL 4645]

Yes my first design was with the LSR in wall but since the room will have all kinds of products and speakers it was more logical to design it for free standing units

LSR are design to be free standing if you put them in wall you have to eq the spectral balance of the system (i do have the eq) my decision was based in the first point

I see well I hope this all works out well once completed and up and running.:)
:tree::xmas:

[Titanium Dome]

it's looking good. :)

[Valentin]

back wall pics

[jbl_daddy]

VERY COOL

I hope to have a deicated music room / tv room in my next house. When that happens we need to have a picture thread so I can suck ideas / benchmark form others. Maby someday... The room is very impressive...:applaud:

[JBL 4645]

Its slowly taken sharp and form now. Is it warm where you are I noticed the window is wide open! Shut that window!:D

[Chas]

Its slowly taken sharp and form now. Is it warm where you are I noticed the window is wide open! Shut that window!:D

He's in freakin' Mexico!:)

[JBL 4645]

He's in freakin' Mexico!:)
What no snow no frizzing -15°? Seems like nice place to be then.:)

[Valentin]

floor is on and speakers will be tested this weekend :)

[Titanium Dome]

Looks very nice. You'll have plenty of LF I think.

[Valentin]

after eq via DEQX there is no boom in the room you just feel the pressure in your ears

even after all this treatment you need an Eq to get the low bass done

the system is extremely clean

[JBL 4645]

Val

Fantastic, fantastic well done you did a smashing good job of it looks really grand I like it.

Nice JBL LSR 32 and B380 18” subs I should say you’ll have that pressure in the ear chest uniformly covered with minimal power and plenty of headroom dynamic range delivery. Those look like Lexicon THX approved amps from the mid 1990’s?
The subs look like they’d been replaced with 2241/42
http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/specs/home-speakers/1983-b380-b460/page3.jpg
:applaud:

[Titanium Dome]

Nice JBL LSR 32 and B380 18” subs I should say you’ll have that pressure in the ear chest uniformly covered with minimal power and plenty of headroom dynamic range delivery. Those look like Lexicon THX approved amps from the mid 1990’s?
The subs look like they’d been replaced with 2241/42
http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/specs/home-speakers/1983-b380-b460/page3.jpg
:applaud:

B460 I'd say.

[JBL 4645]

B460 I'd say.

Why am I in error? That’s a first?http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:9nsHM_laS49CnM%3Ahttp://www.dialogica.com.ar/digicom/archives/imagenes/hal9000.gif (http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.dialogica.com.ar/digicom/archives/imagenes/hal9000.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.dialogica.com.ar/digicom/2005/05/2005-odisea-en-la-relacion-hom.php&usg=__LjTH50p98Uifu_xx8-lTUQQvLQw=&h=206&w=168&sz=6&hl=en&start=7&sig2=sxLi540ciH5gI2dfeAKZRg&um=1&tbnid=9nsHM_laS49CnM:&tbnh=105&tbnw=86&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dhal9000%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG%26um%3D1&ei=zxBRS6KBIIawjAfVo7mpCg)
Just a minute, just a minute. I’ve picked up fault in the JBL 4645 processor its going to go 100% failure in 1 hour.:D

[JBL 4645]

Val

Are there any further developments on the specialized music room?

[Valentin]

Here are some fotos of the final speacker settup

planing on the future an project array system and a 92" sceen

[JBL 4645]

Wow Val more pictures lots please I like this room. :applaud:

I see you have been experimenting with the B460 placement for tightest uniform sub bass at 100% with less power because you need the headroom to play right up to 115db with minimal risk of clipping the amplifiers.

Are the two Lexicon amps feeding the subs with one half while feeding other half to the JBL LSR?

If so those subs need independent amp and EQ to address the issues that all rooms have.

Maybe (REW) Room EQ Wizard can show you, how good the lows are playing at with smoothest possible frequency response which is after all, the goal for perfect sub bass achievement.;)

You will have to register with the site and you’ll also need microphone/preamp or you can use the SPL db meter for calibrating the subs

Room EQ Wizard (REW) Information Index
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/rew-forum/11707-room-eq-wizard-rew-information-index-links-guides-articles-stickies-please-read.html

[Titanium Dome]

You've done a nice job of transforming that room. Kudos on a job well done.

[Mr. Widget]

You've done a nice job of transforming that room. Kudos on a job well done.:yes:

I am sure it was a ton of hard work, but it looks like it was worth it!


Widget

[Valentin]

Here a some with some new speakers REVEL F32 very nice JBL drivers :applaud: it sound nicer than my LSR6332

[Mr. Widget]

Here a some with some new speakers REVEL F32 very nice JBL drivers :applaud: it sound nicer than my LSR6332I really like the F32s myself. Their mini monitor cousin the M22 is shockingly good as well.


Widget

[Valentin]

yes the M22 are great and since i have the b460 sub i will not be keeping the Revel F32

i will be using a 2 pair of M22 and a c32 center for a 5.1 system

i will save a bit and get the array for 2 way system


i was planning on using the lexicon rv5 have you had any experience with it

[Mr. Widget]

i was planning on using the lexicon rv5 have you had any experience with itNone... TiDome seems pretty happy with the Performance AV2 which I am sure is pretty similar minus the amp section.

Will this surround system be for film or music 5.1?


Widget

[Valentin]

it will serve both applications but the main feature will be movies
(its what most people want)

this will set as an example that a small monitor system with a good sub section can really do it in medium to small rooms

i have also played around with the JBL LS series and think they are an excellent choice for HT they are extremely clear and have a nice price point

M22 are better for music but their price also reflects that

M22 are really good for stereo in my opinion with great extension for the size

F32 have great bass i was not expecting from two 6 1/2 drivers

I would really like to hear the array 800 1000 and 1400 but we will not have them in stock and it will be a special order

its been some time since the array systems where launched i wounder if a there is a chance for a MKII version in the future (charged coupled mg diaphragm)

[Mr. Widget]

I'd agree with your assessment above. I think the LS80s would be a better HT choice, but for music I completely agree... those little Revels are outstanding and certainly nicer than the LS Series.

Have you heard the 1500 Array subs? OMG!!! Simply amazing. As good as the Sub1500s are they really did make them better, and even though they have a built in amp, it seems quite capable. Then again I guess one should expect all this, they are not inexpensive.


Widget

[Valentin]

yes i am selling my B460

but selling them is not an easy task for shouch a big box

i do want the 1500 array sub

[4313B]

Here a some with some new speakers REVEL F32 very nice JBL drivers :applaud: it sound nicer than my LSR6332Very nice! :yes:

yes i am selling my B460

but selling them is not an easy task for shouch a big box

i do want the 1500 array subI was able to hook a few forum members up with W1500H's before the well ran dry. :( Revel is using the newer W1500H-1.
Have you heard the 1500 Array subs? OMG!!! Simply amazing. As good as the Sub1500s are they really did make them better, and even though they have a built in amp, it seems quite capable. Then again I guess one should expect all this, they are not inexpensive.Hearing is believing. :yes:

The SUB1500's were an insane bang for the buck though! :rotfl: Hell, so is the old B460 by comparison. There is no substantial cost difference between a fresh 2245H and a W1500H. Heck, the 2242H costs more than the W1500H (and it's not the subwoofer that the W1500H is).

[Valentin]

Heck, the 2242H costs more than the W1500H (and it's not the subwoofer that the W1500H is).

you are pulling my leg

i will change my 2242h for w1500h in a bink of a eye

[4313B]

you are pulling my leg

i will change my 2242h for w1500h in a bink of a eyeMSRP:

W1500H $532 N.L.A.
2242H $840

[Valentin]

ok
sow your not pulling my leg

:crying:

well at least i do have two very competent and expensive 2242h/b460 subs

[Mr. Widget]

Those 2242 woofers are quite amazing in their intended application... shaking the earth for thousands of fans... but for home use, I'd pop a pair of 2245Hs back in your B460s.

Then again, the 1500 Arrays will clobber both in the subterranean region and sound damn fine in the low bass too.


Widget

[JBL 4645]

Val
How about placing the subs B460 at the front left and right sides with the LSR placed on top of the B460.

You’re mad selling the subs off they really fit in nicely with the colour of the room.:)

[Valentin]

I did measurements with many configurations and the smoothest bass was with this setting

remember that at freq below 300hz the modal response of the room rules so some times is better to have the bass bins where they work well and the stereo part where it images best

IT is really good even with out EQ

some more pictures with a new member the Revel M22

[Valentin]

let me update

these speaker are just great each one in there category :)

[hjames]

Wow - your Music room looks fantastic - and the speakers look great in there!
Kudos to you, sir!

[Titanium Dome]

Looks great. You will have many blissful hours there. :applaud:

[Mr. Widget]

Wow - your Music room looks fantastic - and the speakers look great in there!
Kudos to you, sir!What she said. :D

Congratulations...


Widget

[JBL 4645]

Val
Wow, The JBL array 1400, suits the colour of the floor the nice sheen shine on them wow.:)

[Robh3606]

Wow the room looks really nice!

Rob:)

[Valentin]

the sound is just fantastic

i will be making some adjustments to my room acoustis to get the moust out of them

I am thinking of going for the full 5.1 array (at least hoping for)

1400array front
880array center
800array surround
1500array sub

its a killer system

[Valentin]

here is the smaller 800array

they are very nice speakes and the tonalty is just as good as his big brother

[Titanium Dome]

Nice. You are on a good path.

[Valentin]

Revel M22 are very nice speakers
JBL 800array are just better

thums up Greg

[Valentin]

New speakers Gem2 these will be in anorther room but i had to hear them in this room


the sound is fabulous


http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c7/ValentinR/Productos%20Aquitectura%20Aural/Revel/DSC_0384.jpg

[grumpy]

What a fabulously entertaining speaker selection and listening environment! :applaud:

(as I sit in my office, listening to Gary Burton's "Like Minds" :) )

[Valentin]

THANKS :)

I DO ENJOY THEM

The K2 are very nice but i whould say that the newer are better specialy in definition

Greg and Marc are Crem de la Crem.

[Mr. Widget]

Very nice! What subs are you using with the Gems?


Widget

[richluvsound]

Beautiful ..... It would take a while for the novelty to wear off . I'd have to have food shipped in !

Hats off to your sir .

Rich

[Valentin]

thanks

Rich and Widget


I am not useing any for the moment. The best would be the W1500H based subs.

these gems will be in my living room so i have to find a way too squeze a sub with out beeing to intrusive.

I would like the Japan version HB5000 it´s a bit smaller than the 1500 array the new Revel should come out next year

do you now of any gooddys ???

[Dualbios]

wow this thread just makes me want to build my own room already love the work