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JSF13
07-20-2009, 01:41 PM
Just curious as to what your favorite middish size JBL speaker would be. I'm thinking along lines of 4311,4412,L100, sizewise. Maybe a little bit bigger.Which one(s) really got it right?

Thanks for any replies.

Regards
Joe.

BMWCCA
07-20-2009, 02:15 PM
If you're just looking for opinions, I enjoy my L112, L96, and 4412As immensely.

If you stretch your definition of mid-size to include the L5, I might say that is my favorite over all those above. :dont-know

SEAWOLF97
07-20-2009, 03:02 PM
I wud take L-166 over L-1:):)'s and their derivatives (including 4412s) , and my new L-86's are nice enough to recommend L-96's as I hear they have same hf,mf , but bigger LF.

nothing scientific here ..just personal experience.:D

Hertzz
07-20-2009, 04:06 PM
I like my L112's but have not used them in years because I stll use and very much enjoy My L65's mainly due to the 077 tweeter/radiator.

Audiobeer
07-20-2009, 04:22 PM
4313B, L-96 then L166.

MikeBrewster77
07-20-2009, 05:07 PM
If you're open to suggestions that include "newer school" offerings, the PT800's (not stacked, obviously :p) coupled with any decent sub and crossed appropriately are simply amazing.

Ralph856
07-20-2009, 05:15 PM
If you're open to suggestions that include "newer school" offerings, the PT800's (not stacked, obviously :p) coupled with any decent sub and crossed appropriately are simply amazing.

Did you decide to use a sub in the end, then? :) Which one?

mikebake
07-20-2009, 05:25 PM
VRX's

MikeBrewster77
07-20-2009, 05:27 PM
Did you decide to use a sub in the end, then? :) Which one?

Yes, I did ;).

I have a Mirage that's been with me for about 2 years now that's currently in use; it's really not a bad sub - good down to 28 +/- 3. After having upgraded the entire system in 6 months, budget's a bit tight so I'm considering an L8400 as a short-term upgrade.

(Sorry JSF13 for going slightly OT :o:.)

Ralph856
07-20-2009, 06:09 PM
(Sorry JSF13 for going slightly OT :o:.)

I take full responsibility :p

I can recommend the L96 as an excellent mid size speaker. Overall, better balanced than the 4312. I'll be trying them out with a 6312SP sub, once the appropriate cable arrives.

rdgrimes
07-20-2009, 07:05 PM
I wud take L-166 over L-1:):)'s and their derivatives (including 4412s) , and my new L-86's are nice enough to recommend L-96's as I hear they have same hf,mf , but bigger LF.

nothing scientific here ..just personal experience.:D
The L86 and L96 only share the same mids. The 034 and 044 tweets have different magnets and power-handling ability. The L96 woof is a monster heavy 10" compared to the L86 8" lightweight.
That said, they do both make a pretty good showing for themselves.

Being partial, my choice for balls to the wall high-volume high-power listening is the L96. It has a balance and purity that's hard to beat. The L112 is much the same, but is better suited to lower volumes in smaller rooms due to excessive bass. It has more of the California thump, where the L96 is clean and tight and accurate. Neither one will fail to impress and both can handle unlimited power.

Punch
07-20-2009, 07:12 PM
L166 for me.

Valentin
07-20-2009, 08:00 PM
Lsr 6332

boputnam
07-20-2009, 08:35 PM
4313B...Dixie Bell!

Ralph856
07-20-2009, 08:50 PM
Lsr 6332

That's a speaker I'd love to hear (I'm trying out some 6328P's). What amplification do you use them with?

midlife
07-20-2009, 09:26 PM
Just put my 96s back together, after getting the woofers refoamed at Orange County (they did a great job!). Without any break in time at all the 96s sound terrific. Distinct sound stage and balanced performance from all three drivers. Most of all they sound "right" with mid adj on both Lpads and flat treble and bass on the pre-amp :applaud:

mike
07-21-2009, 07:30 AM
I'd have to agree with the others about the L96. You really can't go wrong with them.

Mike

Doc Mark
07-21-2009, 07:46 AM
Morning, All,

Well, I guess, since I don't have that many JBL systems, I'll have to go with "what brung me to the dance". Our smaller L19's sound very good to me, for a two-way, and our 4411's are very, very nice, indeed! As we're still in deep lust with our L300's, Sweet Bride and I don't have the L19's and 4411's setup for use, right now. But, both systems are very satisfactory, and as I've said before, if we'd have found our 4411's before we got our L300's, we very well might have been MORE than satisfied with them! Add a 4645 on the bottom end, just for grins, and well, that is quite a system!! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

Titanium Dome
07-21-2009, 11:26 AM
This probably stretches the definition, but sticking to the common conception of "mid-sized" eliminates some of the better products. There aren't many speakers today that replicate that vintage look and design.

I certainly agree with the PT800 as a great mid-sized speaker, though it hardly fits the general expectation of a rectangular, deep box with two or three drivers.

Another great candidate would be the Ti6k, which will handily outperform most of its older, bulkier brothers and sisters.

My current favorite of course is the most unconventional of all. It's the SAM1HF/SAM2LF combo. See the problem? It's really two boxes, yet it's definitely one sonic unit. Plus, it's not a tower and not a bookshelf, thus mid-sized? I could backpeddle to the 800 Array, but as fine as it is, it's no SAM1/2.

So, my favorites, in order:
SAM1HF/SAM2LF
Ti6K
800 Array
PT800
:applaud:

hjames
07-21-2009, 11:31 AM
My current favorite of course is the most unconventional of all. It's the SAM1HF/SAM2LF combo. See the problem? It's really two boxes, yet it's definitely one sonic unit. Plus, it's not a tower and not a bookshelf, thus mid-sized? I could backpeddle to the 800 Array, but as fine as it is, it's no SAM1/2.

So, my favorites, in order:
SAM1HF/SAM2LF
Ti6K
800 Array
PT800
:applaud:

So - would you put that SAM on a bookshelf??
Its really more "bolt it onto the wall" isn't it?

JSF13
07-21-2009, 03:45 PM
Thanks all. So far the L96 seems to be the clear favorite.

Titanium Dome
07-21-2009, 05:17 PM
So - would you put that SAM on a bookshelf??
Its really more "bolt it onto the wall" isn't it?

Here's mine on a shelf. ;)

BMWCCA
07-21-2009, 05:40 PM
Thanks all. So far the L96 seems to be the clear favorite.That depends on how you define "mid-size". I own a pair of L96s and recommend them but in the "mid-size" assortment of my 13 JBLs, my favorites are the 12" 4412A and L112, or the over-performing L5. And many here are L166 fans—another 12" "mid-size" or at least "bookshelf". The L96 is a wonderful speaker with great balance but if you're looking for a low-end more like a "large-size" JBL, then it may not be your cup of tea.

And that's just the "vintage" side as T-dome has pointed out. And then there's that price issue that can't be ignored. Though the SAM combo is over 37" tall so, again, what's your definition of "mid-size". :)

JSF13
07-21-2009, 06:18 PM
That depends on how you define "mid-size". I own a pair of L96s and recommend them but in the "mid-size" assortment of my 13 JBLs, my favorites are the 12" 4412A and L112, or the over-performing L5. And many here are L166 fans—another 12" "mid-size" or at least "bookshelf". The L96 is a wonderful speaker with great balance but if you're looking for a low-end more like a "large-size" JBL, then it may not be your cup of tea.

And that's just the "vintage" side as T-dome has pointed out. And then there's that price issue that can't be ignored. Though the SAM combo is over 37" tall so, again, what's your definition of "mid-size". :)

Yes you are right. I would be looking for a low end more like a large size JBL. :D

Titanium Dome
07-21-2009, 07:33 PM
Yes you are right. I would be looking for a low end more like a large size JBL. :D

Well, in that case, L100 hands down. Of all the JBLs I've owned since 1970, none has given more pleasure than the L100. It continues to give today.

...and to anyone who wants to denigrate that choice, click this:

http://forums.audioreview.com/showpost.php?p=291363&postcount=15

WARNING: this link takes you away from this site, and you may find this link offensive.

BMWCCA
07-21-2009, 08:03 PM
Well, in that case, L100 hands down.
Where's the tongue-firmly-in-cheek emoticon? :rotfl:

JSF13
07-21-2009, 08:30 PM
Well, in that case, L100 hands down. Of all the JBLs I've owned since 1970, none has given more pleasure than the L100. It continues to give today.

...and to anyone who wants to denigrate that choice, click this:

http://forums.audioreview.com/showpost.php?p=291363&postcount=15

WARNING: this link takes you away from this site, and you may find this link offensive.

No,not my cup of tea. I was thinking more along the lines of the 4412A's.There's a pair for sale near me.

Oh that I had the money to try out every new JBL speaker that came along. Alas alas.:)

Ralph856
07-22-2009, 05:40 AM
Room size and shape (which you haven't mentioned) will be a factor, of course. L112s will probably need to be further away from bounderies than L96's. Or you could use a sub and high-pass the mains, making them easier to position. You need to experiment to find what suits you and your space best. It's the only way ;).

Just make sure the speakers you buy are decent value, so you don't lose any or much if you need to move them on. I spent too much on my L96's but, luckily, I like them.

Why not give those 4412a's a go and see how they get on? Good luck.

AmericanPie
07-22-2009, 01:36 PM
Where's the tongue-firmly-in-cheek emoticon? :rotfl:

Actually, I kind of liked the emoticons in his post:

http://forums.audioreview.com/showpost.php?p=291363&postcount=15


Regarding L96's, I almost bid on a pair listed on Ebay but they went for $250 needing woofers refoamed, plus the seller wanted $150 for shipping. The total amount I'd have invested in them when done would be perilously close to a nice pair of L112's so I decided to keep looking.

rdgrimes
07-22-2009, 02:24 PM
Regarding L96's, I almost bid on a pair listed on Ebay but they went for $250 needing woofers refoamed, plus the seller wanted $150 for shipping. The total amount I'd have invested in them when done would be perilously close to a nice pair of L112's so I decided to keep looking.
I do not consider L96 and L112 to be interchangeable, but I do consider their value to be equal. The LE10H and 128H are the only real difference. The 128H is in higher demand and therefor demands a higher price, but in most other ways they are pretty similar hardware. There's even only a 4# difference in weight between the 2 models. $150 doesn't seem out of line to me for carefully packing and shipping over 100# of speakers. At least with the L96 the grills can be left on if it's packed right. The L112 needs 3 boxes for shipping.

AmericanPie
07-22-2009, 02:53 PM
I guess the problem is, many BUYERS don't consider their values to be equal. I've seen L96's selling from ~$200-$475 (depending upon work needed), but recently there have been a couple pairs of really nice looking L112's that both sold for well over $700 on the Bay. Overpriced? I dunno. But rightly or wrongly, L112's seem to be more desirable to a certain segment of shoppers. It's probably got a lot to do with "image".

I'm not really complaining about the $150 in shipping costs...it's just that when you add that to any work needed (such as another ~$200 in a quality refoam job, in this case) plus the risks associated with buying sight-unseen, you've got to look at other options. I live in the greater LA area and keep hoping a quality pair of either L96s or L112s will eventually pop up that are within driving distance.

rdgrimes
07-22-2009, 03:06 PM
I live in the greater LA area and keep hoping a quality pair of either L96s or L112s will eventually pop up that are within driving distance.
They will, most certainly.

JBLAddict
07-22-2009, 03:41 PM
So, my favorites, in order:
SAM1HF/SAM2LF
Ti6K
800 Array
PT800
:applaud:

wow, this ranking pays serious homage to the TiK series.

I'm wondering if I should have just went with my original plan to buy the Ti10K instead of going the L5 to L7 route?

Naturally there's a monetary consideration here, but I never imagined you'd rank Ti6K ahead of the 800array given the resemblance to your #1 choice, or PT800 given the all Ti dome driver array?

In particular since the Ti6K LF drivers are nothing extremely special, this part of the ranking is a little confusing?

Titanium Dome
07-22-2009, 04:12 PM
wow, this ranking pays serious homage to the TiK series.

I'm wondering if I should have just went with my original plan to buy the Ti10K instead of going the L5 to L7 route?

Naturally there's a monetary consideration here, but I never imagined you'd rank Ti6K ahead of the 800array given the resemblance to your #1 choice, or PT800 given the all Ti dome driver array?

In particular since the Ti6K LF drivers are nothing extremely special, this part of the ranking is a little confusing?

There's a fairly substantial difference between the Ti6K and Ti10K that allows me to squeeze the smaller Ti6K into this mid-size category. The Ti10K is just too big.

The 800 Array is a very good speaker, but it's not even 70% of the SAM1/2 IMO. For one thing, its single 8" driver is no match for even one of the 8" SAM2LF drivers let alone two. They are an entire class above what's in the 800 Array. The 800 Array has a Poly/pulp cone woofer at 88 dB sensitivity; the SAM2 has two deep-anodized Al cone woofers with dual neo magnets and dual voice coils at 92 dB sensitivity.

They share the same 045Ti UHF driver, but the 800 Array sports the 175Nd 1.75" Al HF driver while the SAM1 has the superior 435AL-1 3" HF compression driver (at 98 dB sensitivity).

The SAM cabinets aren't as pretty as the 800 Arrays, but they're far more substantial. Plus they're made to be EQed, with no internal crossovers, so they're far more capable of being "just right."

In fact, now that you've got me going, I'm not so sure I'd rank the 800 Array above the PT800. Perhaps i should change the order, I like the Ti inverted dome 8" woofer and 4" midrange better than what's in the 800 Array. Perhaps I was letting my SAM lust cloud my judgment on the 800 Array.

Titanium Dome
07-22-2009, 04:34 PM
The Ti6K has some serious cred, IMO.

The TI025K tweeter is a Ti dome that's as sweet as the TM025 in the PT800.

The 804Ti midrange is a sibling of the 904Ti in the PT800, and it's more rigid to boot, taking its diaphragm shape from the Revel Ultima design.

The two 806JB Poly-cone woofers should not be understimated. They're cleaner and faster than the 8" in the 800 Array, and the pair can more than match its output, if not its lowest tone.

Plus, let's not forget its tri-amp capability and nearly perfect cabinet design. :smsex:

It's one hot mama.

JSF13
07-22-2009, 04:56 PM
Room size and shape (which you haven't mentioned) will be a factor, of course. L112s will probably need to be further away from bounderies than L96's. Or you could use a sub and high-pass the mains, making them easier to position. You need to experiment to find what suits you and your space best. It's the only way ;).

Just make sure the speakers you buy are decent value, so you don't lose any or much if you need to move them on. I spent too much on my L96's but, luckily, I like them.

Why not give those 4412a's a go and see how they get on? Good luck.

Agreed.:) As far as the speakers mentioned here, there are many I would like to try but so far the 4412A's are the only ones that have come up for sale anywhere close to me. Up here in Canada we don't see the various JBL's come up for sale very often and some of the models that are fairly common in the States are few and far between up here. A pair of L65's came up today but there was already a sale pending and they are several hundred miles away to boot. However I am not in any great hurry so we'll see what comes our way. I waited over two years for my 4430's. Thanks for all the helpful posts. Much appreciated.:)

JBLAddict
07-23-2009, 10:30 PM
There's a fairly substantial difference between the Ti6K and Ti10K that allows me to squeeze the smaller Ti6K into this mid-size category. The Ti10K is just too big.

The 800 Array is a very good speaker, but it's not even 70% of the SAM1/2 IMO. For one thing, its single 8" driver is no match for even one of the 8" SAM2LF drivers let alone two. They are an entire class above what's in the 800 Array. The 800 Array has a Poly/pulp cone woofer at 88 dB sensitivity; the SAM2 has two deep-anodized Al cone woofers with dual neo magnets and dual voice coils at 92 dB sensitivity.

They share the same 045Ti UHF driver, but the 800 Array sports the 175Nd 1.75" Al HF driver while the SAM1 has the superior 435AL-1 3" HF compression driver (at 98 dB sensitivity).

The SAM cabinets aren't as pretty as the 800 Arrays, but they're far more substantial. Plus they're made to be EQed, with no internal crossovers, so they're far more capable of being "just right."

In fact, now that you've got me going, I'm not so sure I'd rank the 800 Array above the PT800. Perhaps i should change the order, I like the Ti inverted dome 8" woofer and 4" midrange better than what's in the 800 Array. Perhaps I was letting my SAM lust cloud my judgment on the 800 Array.

excellent breakdown, I had no idea the compression driver and woofers of the array800 were so markedly different than that of the SAMs.... or compression driver so differernt than the array1400 for that matter.

you continue to make a very good case for the Ti6K and Ti10K over the yrs, still wonder if I had the Ti10K sitting next to my L7, price aside, how much more I would love the Ti10K??

Titanium Dome
07-24-2009, 10:36 AM
excellent breakdown, I had no idea the compression driver and woofers of the array800 were so markedly different than that of the SAMs.... or compression driver so differernt than the array1400 for that matter.

you continue to make a very good case for the Ti6K and Ti10K over the yrs, still wonder if I had the Ti10K sitting next to my L7, price aside, how much more I would love the Ti10K??

You'd miss that wonderful LE120H-1 bass extension, but not as much as you'd think, and over time your preference might shift or you'd add a sub. Everything above that would be bliss.

Of course a single Ti10K costs way more than a pair of L7s at original retail.

Mr. Widget
07-24-2009, 11:36 AM
The SAM cabinets aren't as pretty as the 800 Arrays, but they're far more substantial. Plus they're made to be EQed, with no internal crossovers, so they're far more capable of being "just right."Not entirely true. :)

There is quite a bit of network in there... the network between the 045Ti and the 435AL along with a sophisticated frequency response contouring network... the only bit that is active is between the twin 8" woofers and the mid horn. It is essentially like bi-amping a 4333 except there are additional passive components used to control the frequency response.

BTW: That is Monster Cable brand wire in there. Though I must admit I don't know why.


Widget

4313B
07-24-2009, 11:38 AM
I was wondering how they fit that 045Ti in there...



... and only if the SAM12X isn't used instead.

Titanium Dome
07-24-2009, 01:08 PM
Not entirely true. :)

There is quite a bit of network in there... the network between the 045Ti and the 435AL along with a sophisticated frequency response contouring network... the only bit that is active is between the twin 8" woofers and the mid horn. It is essentially like bi-amping a 4333 except there are additional passive components used to control the frequency response.

BTW: That is Monster Cable brand wire in there. Though I must admit I don't know why.


Widget

If that's your picture, you're a braver man than I. I didn't and don't plan on opening mine. If you can, show us one of the 8" drivers out of the cabinet, too, you daredevil.

I haven't located the SAM technical manuals yet, and my usual guesses aren't working, so that's the first look I've had at the inside and the crossover in particular. Thanks.

Of course, Monster Cable is nothing new in JBLs. It's in a lot of the models I own. I hope they get a good break on price; otherwise, why unnecessarily drive up the cost?

Mr. Widget
07-24-2009, 01:35 PM
Yeah, I took the pic just before posting. I already knew what to look for though as we are planning on "Flying" them and wanted to make sure the well engineered brackets that hold the two or three SAMs (yes you can use two woofer boxes per horn unit for greater midbass impact) together could support them if flown... nada. The brackets are really well thought out and well attached to the speaker backs, but the backs are only screwed to the cabinets with wood screws. We have some engineers at JBL looking into the best way to accomplish this.

Really awesome customer support. :bouncy: They will mount them as we discussed and shake and stress them to determine the best way to fly them.


Widget

JSF13
07-24-2009, 01:54 PM
Damn don't I wish I was close enough to grab HJames L100T's :biting:

Akira
07-24-2009, 05:12 PM
It all started with the venerable 4310

JBLAddict
07-24-2009, 09:02 PM
You'd miss that wonderful LE120H-1 bass extension, but not as much as you'd think, and over time your preference might shift or you'd add a sub. Everything above that would be bliss.

Of course a single Ti10K costs way more than a pair of L7s at original retail.

well, my personal preference is in the quality of the MF/HF over the LF, so after 30+yrs of L100 forward mid, if there's one issue I have with the L7, it's the subdued MF.....I still find myself putting on the L100s, warts and all, when I want that voice and snare drum going right through me....I'm sure many know exactly what I'm talking about.....

I'm afraid if I heard the Ti10K or 6K for that matter....I'd be in trouble....

Titanium Dome
07-25-2009, 09:38 AM
I'm afraid if I heard the Ti10K or 6K for that matter....I'd be in trouble....

I almost hate to post this, but what the heck. Here's a YouTube video some knucklehead put together showcasing the Ti10K playing some dreadfully recorded music. Be patient, and you'll at least get a pretty good look at the speaker, after he figures out how to focus his camera.

Turn your sound down (or off).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2J94FlLEjmo

JBLAddict
07-25-2009, 10:47 AM
I almost hate to post this, but what the heck. Here's a YouTube video some knucklehead put together showcasing the Ti10K playing some dreadfully recorded music. Be patient, and you'll at least get a pretty good look at the speaker, after he figures out how to focus his camera.

Turn your sound down (or off).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2J94FlLEjmo


good shots of the MF/HF.....too bad he didn't play any music instead of leaving the window open with that jackhammering outside....;)

4313B
07-25-2009, 11:58 AM
I almost hate to post this, but what the heck. Here's a YouTube video some knucklehead put together showcasing the Ti10K playing some dreadfully recorded music.I'm not entirely conviced that you are hearing any music. That sound could very well be his friend smacking him in the head with an extremely large serving spoon while he is simply trying to take a video of his loudspeaker...

LowPhreak
07-25-2009, 01:42 PM
"Favorite "mid-size" speaker."

4412's. That's why I bought them. :)

Ralph856
07-25-2009, 11:21 PM
Hey, this thread's reached 4 pages.

What's the average size of a thread?

Four pages sounds about 'mid-sized' to me?

;)

LowPhreak
07-26-2009, 04:12 AM
It's your fave mid-sized thread? :nutz:

SEAWOLF97
06-27-2015, 10:40 AM
.
that doesn't invalidate the responses.


I've had and passed on a number of JBL's that fit the thread's premise ,
they just weren't keepers. (the L-166's may be the exception)

but if asked today I'd say w/o reservation ... 120Ti.
it is an undiscovered gem , waayyy better than L-100's and usually priced cheaper.
better HF , network and prettier cabinet (and grille that doesn't rot :))


The 4313B was considered the best of the bunch and I would tend to agree with that. "The 10-inch 3-ways worked particularly well."

I heard them all at various times over the years in a multitude of venues and I don't remember any of them striking me as particularly bad. Well now wait, the 4311's or 4312's at Griffith Park Observatory were pretty awful. The 120Ti stands out although I personally prefer an LE10H or LE111H based version instead of the 128H-1. L36, L50, L86, L100, L110, L112, L166, 4310, 4311, 4312, 4410, 4411, 4412, etc.

I've not heard alot of the newer models but I'm sure the Century Gold would be at the top of the heap. I didn't much care for the LSR32's but I'm perfectly willing to blame that on my particular room and their placement in it. I'd like to hear a pair of L90's but probably never will.

Ed Kreamer
06-28-2015, 12:51 PM
Colleagues

I too am late to this thread. I have always wondered why when building the 4410, the decision was made to use the 127 rather than the le10 ? I have always liked the le10, and replaced the 127 in my 3 4410's I use for the front channels. Does any one know why JBL opted to do this? Just wondering.

macaroonie
06-28-2015, 02:06 PM
Bit of a zombie thread , I'm with the L96 brigade , 4313 even better still.

I always had a soft spot for DCM Time Windows , similar price point over here but a totally different way of achieving things.

bubbleboy76
06-29-2015, 05:49 AM
4429 has the best size-to-sound-ratio I have heard, simply stunning.

BMWCCA
06-29-2015, 04:12 PM
4429 has the best size-to-sound-ratio I have heard, simply stunning.
I don't think anyone here would doubt that—and for over twenty-times the money today, they should be all you say!
Send me a pair and I'll put them up against my L112, L5, 4412A, and L96 and let you know. :bouncy:

gmarascortt
07-18-2015, 09:06 PM
Right now.....L96's. I have only had them about 6 weeks and I absolutely love them, just incredible sounding! But, I am picking up some L112's in the morning! Stay tuned.....

cgregory4
07-19-2015, 11:12 PM
L65, 4313, 4425.

Greg

baldrick
07-20-2015, 04:33 AM
I recently got some mid-size PA speakers that sounds pretty good, SP212A:


66112

Uses 2426 HF driver and 2206 woofer.

Have also had 120TI and 4412 in the past, do prefer 120TI over the 4412.

Jonas_h
07-20-2015, 05:34 AM
If JBL SK2-1000/SK2-3300 can be classified as mid-size, I would definately add them to the list. I think they sound amazing. They are on the large end of the mid-size though :)

66113