JBL E134/E140 Recone Recommendation

[aj_dry]

Hey everybody,

I have a JBL E140 frame, and JBL E130 frame.

After I recone them, I want to put them in some kind of enclosure, for a bass guitar application.

I want extended bass, flat, non peaky mids/highs, and low distortion.

What recone kit can people recommend?
Should I modify the kit to accommodate the magnet?
What enclosure will work with the new speaker?

[jcrobso]

You can put the E140 recone kit in both frames, no modification necessary.
The Thiel & Small parameters are on this site as are other recommendations box box size.

[Allanvh5150]

You wont get extended bass with an E140 but a pair in a single enclosure will be pretty good down to about 40Hz and will be real tight.

Allan.

[aj_dry]

You wont get extended bass with an E140 but a pair in a single enclosure will be pretty good down to about 40Hz and will be real tight.

Allan.


Hi Allan, Chch is my hometown.

When I put a single E140 into winISD its down 6db @ 40Hz

If I recone with 2225H cones, it does better in extention.
Can I put a 2235 cone into this frame/magnet with no issues, as thats what seems to give me the most bass extention? I guess it wont preform exactly the same as a 2235...I just dont want any mechanical issues , peaky mids, or increased distortion due to coil over/under hang...

[Allanvh5150]

Hi Allan, Chch is my hometown.

When I put a single E140 into winISD its down 6db @ 40Hz

If I recone with 2225H cones, it does better in extention.
Can I put a 2235 cone into this frame/magnet with no issues, as thats what seems to give me the most bass extention? I guess it wont preform exactly the same as a 2235...I just dont want any mechanical issues , peaky mids, or increased distortion due to coil over/under hang...

Unfortunately the E130/140 frame has a higher magnetic strength so even with the 2225/2235 recones kit you wont get the same extension as a 2225/2235. When JBL spec a cabinet, normally the lowest frequency is at 10db down. The E140/130 magnet is 1/8" thicker so it is easy to tell the difference. Two E140's in a cab together make a pretty formidable bos for bass.

Allan.

[short_circutz]

My father's been playing bass and using exclusively the E140 (or the predecessors of it) in his bass cabinets for long before I was in existence. He's been using 6 cubic foot cabinets, but I forget what the cabinets are tuned to for the ports though. I've grown to love the sound of an early 70's Fender Jazz bass through an E140 set up like this. For the last 20 years or so, a modified Traynor Bass Master is used for the pre section, and he's used both a Harman Kardon Citation 16 and a bridged Bryston 2B for power.

[aj_dry]

My father's been playing bass and using exclusively the E140 (or the predecessors of it) in his bass cabinets for long before I was in existence. He's been using 6 cubic foot cabinets, but I forget what the cabinets are tuned to for the ports though. I've grown to love the sound of an early 70's Fender Jazz bass through an E140 set up like this. For the last 20 years or so, a modified Traynor Bass Master is used for the pre section, and he's used both a Harman Kardon Citation 16 and a bridged Bryston 2B for power.

Thanks for the info. :)

Does his E140s have aluminium dust caps?

[aj_dry]

Unfortunately the E130/140 frame has a higher magnetic strength so even with the 2225/2235 recones kit you wont get the same extension as a 2225/2235. When JBL spec a cabinet, normally the lowest frequency is at 10db down. The E140/130 magnet is 1/8" thicker so it is easy to tell the difference. Two E140's in a cab together make a pretty formidable bos for bass.

Allan.

Hi Allan, can you tell me any more details about:

1/Any increase/decrease in 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortion due to differences in voice coil positioning?

2/How much low end extention will I loose if using a 2235 in the E140 Magnet/Frame?

If I use 2 drivers (any) in an Iso-barik config as opposed to a straight BR, will my top end change? I cant see how it wont, because as soon as you point two drivers at each other as opposed to pointing them at your face, things sound different?!?

[Allanvh5150]

Hi Allan, can you tell me any more details about:

1/Any increase/decrease in 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortion due to differences in voice coil positioning?

2/How much low end extention will I loose if using a 2235 in the E140 Magnet/Frame?

If I use 2 drivers (any) in an Iso-barik config as opposed to a straight BR, will my top end change? I cant see how it wont, because as soon as you point two drivers at each other as opposed to pointing them at your face, things sound different?!?

The 2235 in an E140 will be somewhere between the two. I have put many 2225 cones into E140 frames and the perform ok in the sound reinforcement application. For bass though the 2225 dosnt have the overtones of the E140, most people tha I have known to use the 2225 always used it with a pair of tens or something like that. However, I would not go pumping bass guitar through a 2225. They do go down to 20hz but there power rating is only 150watts and they have a foam surround which will wear out pretty quick. Isobaric's are usualy used for bandpass applications.

Allan.

[subwoof]

You don't HAVE any notes on a bass guitar that go low enough to warrant using the foam surround cones. It is an invitation for over excursion. Period.

I used to assemble stage boxes for various uses and installing an aluminum dustcap on a 2225 gave it a little hf extension.

The E145 is a killer bass guitar cone but can only fit it's own frame.

I say stick with the E140 kits and be done with it.

sub

[short_circutz]

Thanks for the info. :)

Does his E140s have aluminium dust caps?

Yes, they do.

[jcrobso]

At high power with lots of "thumping" the voice coil might jump out of the gap.
I have a 5 string bass even at 31hz I get lots of bass for my D140Fs.

[ivica]

Unfortunately the E130/140 frame has a higher magnetic strength so even with the 2225/2235 recones kit you wont get the same extension as a 2225/2235. When JBL spec a cabinet, normally the lowest frequency is at 10db down. The E140/130 magnet is 1/8" thicker so it is easy to tell the difference. Two E140's in a cab together make a pretty formidable bos for bass.

Allan.

Concerning the speaker simulation it seems that adding about 45~50 gr to membrane mass would help (in re-conning E110 with 2235 cone ). This amount of mass can be added under the "dust cap" made from about 4" aluminum bonnet which is about 0.1" thick

[Eaulive]

STOP PEOPLE!

The 2225 does NOT have a foam surround, the 2235 does!
2225 and E140 share a very similar cone and suspension, the difference is in the VC and the dust cap.

And of course the motor.

[ivica]

Concerning the speaker simulation it seems that adding about 45~50 gr to membrane mass would help (in re-conning E110 with 2235 cone ). This amount of mass can be added under the "dust cap" made from about 4" aluminum bonnet which is about 0.1" thick

sorry fro error not E110, but E140

[1audiohack]

2/How much low end extention will I loose if using a 2235 in the E140 Magnet/Frame?


Next to none. I built six 2234's and measured them, added the mass rings to make them 2235's and measured them again. Two are 2235 baskets and four are E140 baskets. At 18 Hz the largest difference between all of them is 1.1dB SPL, that's all. From 20 Hz to 300 Hz they are closer than that.

[ivica]

Next to none. I built six 2234's and measured them, added the mass rings to make them 2235's and measured them again. Two are 2235 baskets and four are E140 baskets. At 18 Hz the largest difference between all of them is 1.1dB SPL, that's all. From 20 Hz to 300 Hz they are closer than that.


Concerning "MASS RING", did You put original 35gr, or something else...

[ivica]

Next to none. I built six 2234's and measured them, added the mass rings to make them 2235's and measured them again. Two are 2235 baskets and four are E140 baskets. At 18 Hz the largest difference between all of them is 1.1dB SPL, that's all. From 20 Hz to 300 Hz they are closer than that.

Interesting, almost the same results are expected from the simulation, Bass Reflex 156Lit, tuned 28Hz
Green 2235H, red E140 reconed with 2235 kit. With network 2.4mH/20uF
I believe that with heavier mass ring the response would be almost the same