Re-capped Jubals... Success!

[brad347]

Well I didn't know how big of a difference re-capping my Jubals would make, but I got bored and decided to try it.

I have been listening to these speakers with original caps for about a year.

Tonight I replaced them as follows:

10.6µf Russian PIO (measured, matched pair) + 3.0µf Daytons

3.75µf Russian PIO (measured, matched pair) + .22µf Daytons

1.5µf film/foil SoniCaps.

All bypassed with .01µf Daytons.

Components were selected to try and find the best balance of cost/performance. I don't think I'm as picky as some on the internet seem to be, or perhaps I just don't know what I'm missing, but I didn't feel motivated to spend big $$$ on high-end caps.

The Russian PIO caps were cheap and the specific ones I got have a pretty good rep on the internet. The Daytons are of course cheap, and the Sonicaps have a good rep as a mid-priced film/foil type and were relatively affordable in the 1.5µf value. I couldn't seem to source any affordable PIO caps in the 1.5µf value.

Right out of the gate I'm really impressed. I don't know if caps in crossovers 'break in' or whatever, but even with 0 hours on them I already hear the difference from original caps and I'm pleased. Everything seems smoother and livelier. This is my first time recapping crossovers so I wasn't sure what to expect but already I'm glad I did. I don't know what can be attributed to 'better' caps, what can be attributed to 'newer' caps, what can be attributed to the bypass caps, etc. I just know it sounds good!

[JBLRaiser]

Well I didn't know how big of a difference re-capping my Jubals would make, but I got bored and decided to try it.

I have been listening to these speakers with original caps for about a year.

Tonight I replaced them as follows:

10.6µf Russian PIO (measured, matched pair) + 3.0µf Daytons

3.75µf Russian PIO (measured, matched pair) + .22µf Daytons

1.5µf film/foil SoniCaps.

All bypassed with .01µf Daytons.

Components were selected to try and find the best balance of cost/performance. I don't think I'm as picky as some on the internet seem to be, or perhaps I just don't know what I'm missing, but I didn't feel motivated to spend big $$$ on high-end caps.

The Russian PIO caps were cheap and the specific ones I got have a pretty good rep on the internet. The Daytons are of course cheap, and the Sonicaps have a good rep as a mid-priced film/foil type and were relatively affordable in the 1.5µf value. I couldn't seem to source any affordable PIO caps in the 1.5µf value.

Right out of the gate I'm really impressed. I don't know if caps in crossovers 'break in' or whatever, but even with 0 hours on them I already hear the difference from original caps and I'm pleased. Everything seems smoother and livelier. This is my first time recapping crossovers so I wasn't sure what to expect but already I'm glad I did. I don't know what can be attributed to 'better' caps, what can be attributed to 'newer' caps, what can be attributed to the bypass caps, etc. I just know it sounds good!


the old caps tested. Had they lost their values. Others more knowledgeable may respond to the technical side of old caps and their values/age relationship to function.

[Mannermusic]

Way to go Brad. I've messed with Solens, Daytons, Clarity Caps and whatever else I could get my hands on. With and w/o by-pass caps. The bottom line has always been: DEPENDS ON THE PARTICULAR APPLICATION. No cure-all. It's an experiment, engineering development process. I'm a great believer of clipping in stuff with alligator clips for an A-B. As far as "do the old caps wear out" - haven't found a bad one yet and this goes back to a number of N2400s from the 60s. Sounds like you hit a good combo; good show. :applaud:Mike

[midlife]

Maybe just a little off topic, but I have a pair of 65s, that had one tweeter that wouldn't play and that cabinets' other components sounded a bit muffled. After swapping the tweeter to the other cabinet I found the problem stayed with the xover and not the HF driver itself. Found some nice complete 65 xovers on ebay and replaced what I suspected to be the faulty xover. And it worked. It seems with the xover replacement that all the components in the cabinet are now sounding much better. :D

[brad347]

Something I just noticed...

The original caps for C2 on my L-65As have "10460" printed on them. Does this code mean anything? I'm used to seeing "104" and thinking ".1µf" which is obviously not what these caps are (the schematic specifies 1.5µf). Just curious if anyone knows what these codes refer to.

[4313B]

the old caps tested. Had they lost their values. Others more knowledgeable may respond to the technical side of old caps and their values/age relationship to function.The electrolytics used in the conjugates can change value over time.

The biggest complaint with respect to the main capacitors in the old JBL networks was the fact that they were mylar.

In the late 70's JBL began bypassing the mylar and electrolytic capacitors with polypropylene and polystyrene capacitors to increase performance.

Something I just noticed...

The original caps for C2 on my L-65As have "10460" printed on them. Does this code mean anything? I'm used to seeing "104" and thinking ".1µf" which is obviously not what these caps are (the schematic specifies 1.5µf). Just curious if anyone knows what these codes refer to.It doesn't matter. Electro-Cap supplied JBL with mylar capacitors back in those days and they printed whatever they wanted on the capacitor cans.


Here's a fun link to read.

Capacitor Characteristics (http://sound.westhost.com/articles/capacitors.htm)


Right out of the gate I'm really impressed. I don't know what can be attributed to 'better' caps, what can be attributed to 'newer' caps, what can be attributed to the bypass caps, etc. I just know it sounds good!Well I'm glad you like the results. It's better than not liking the results.

[spkrman57]

"Right out of the gate I'm really impressed. I don't know if caps in crossovers 'break in' or whatever, but even with 0 hours on them I already hear the difference from original caps and I'm pleased. Everything seems smoother and livelier. This is my first time recapping crossovers so I wasn't sure what to expect but already I'm glad I did. I don't know what can be attributed to 'better' caps, what can be attributed to 'newer' caps, what can be attributed to the bypass caps, etc. I just know it sounds good!"

My experience is that new caps will take approx 20hrs to 100hrs to fully break-in and you should notice a increased smoothness in the sound quality as this happens.

I like to use oil caps for 1st order crossovers, but Metalized Poly Propolyne MPP's for multiple order crossovers. Just remember, that is just my opinion, not FACT!

Enjoy your recapped speakers!!!

Regards, Ron

[brad347]

Here's a fun link to read.

Capacitor Characteristics (http://sound.westhost.com/articles/capacitors.htm)


Bookmarked. Many thanks.

[brad347]

My experience is that new caps will take approx 20hrs to 100hrs to fully break-in and you should notice a increased smoothness in the sound quality as this happens.


As of now I've probably got about 5 hours on them. :bouncy:

These are my first JBL speakers. I know the Jubal is not considered among the top echelon in the opinion of many here, but for the time being I'm really enjoying them. One day I will 'outgrow' them, perhaps. Maybe by then I will be able to afford some L-300s or something else cool.

[sbjacob]

Well I didn't know how big of a difference re-capping my Jubals would make, but I got bored and decided to try it.

I have been listening to these speakers with original caps for about a year.

Tonight I replaced them as follows:

10.6µf Russian PIO (measured, matched pair) + 3.0µf Daytons

3.75µf Russian PIO (measured, matched pair) + .22µf Daytons

1.5µf film/foil SoniCaps.

All bypassed with .01µf Daytons.

Components were selected to try and find the best balance of cost/performance. I don't think I'm as picky as some on the internet seem to be, or perhaps I just don't know what I'm missing, but I didn't feel motivated to spend big $$$ on high-end caps.

The Russian PIO caps were cheap and the specific ones I got have a pretty good rep on the internet. The Daytons are of course cheap, and the Sonicaps have a good rep as a mid-priced film/foil type and were relatively affordable in the 1.5µf value. I couldn't seem to source any affordable PIO caps in the 1.5µf value.

Right out of the gate I'm really impressed. I don't know if caps in crossovers 'break in' or whatever, but even with 0 hours on them I already hear the difference from original caps and I'm pleased. Everything seems smoother and livelier. This is my first time recapping crossovers so I wasn't sure what to expect but already I'm glad I did. I don't know what can be attributed to 'better' caps, what can be attributed to 'newer' caps, what can be attributed to the bypass caps, etc. I just know it sounds good!
Here is a nice thread on capacitor comparison. http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

[Hoerninger]

but for the time being I'm really enjoying them. One day I will 'outgrow' them, perhaps.

Charge coupling?
____________
Peter

[4313B]

These are my first JBL speakers. I know the Jubal is not considered among the top echelon in the opinion of many here, but for the time being I'm really enjoying them.Well, they can be quite enjoyable nonetheless and it looks like you've found that out for yourself. Every system has limitations. Within this specific website we have been fortunate enough to know pretty much all of them and sometimes we discuss them primarily so that DIY folks can run with ideas if they so choose.

Look what JBL did with the L65 - they stretched it into an L220...

[brad347]

Well, they can be quite enjoyable nonetheless and it looks like you've found that out for yourself. Every system has limitations. Within this specific website we have been fortunate enough to know pretty much all of them and sometimes we discuss them primarily so that DIY folks can run with ideas if they so choose.

Look what JBL did with the L65 - they stretched it into an L220...

THe L220 looks like a pretty cool system. Is that generally preferred over the L65 here? Sorry for OT.

[4313B]

THe L220 looks like a pretty cool system. Is that generally preferred over the L65 here?I believe so. It has a few design changes thrown in -

vertical "time aligned" driver array

fourteen inch woofer instead of twelve inch woofer

woofer mounted up off the floor

passive radiator to tune enclosure very low while eliminating port noise

improved network design

Several people at JBL had a problem with it because it was the SOSIADB and they were trying to move on but it sold nonetheless. I knew several guys who built their own versions (without the passive radiator) before the L220 actually hit the assembly line (S21 kit with the LE14 option replacing the 124. PR15C could be added if desired). One guy built a version using the 136H instead of the LE14H. The LE5 was able to keep up with the L-Pad wide open.

The thing I like most about the L65 is the styling. It makes a really nice subwoofer enclosure for something like a 121H.

[brad347]

Sounds cool! They seem to be priced pretty competitively with Jubals on the used market, too, if what I'm seeing is any indication. Maybe one day I will 'move up.'

But for the life of me I can't figure out what "SOSIADB" stands for! :)

[Mannermusic]

Brad -

Just a follow-up experiment re above discussion: I've been messing with a pair of old 4313B X-overs (approx 30 years old) recently and swapped the tweeter hi pass caps for "something better." Just went back and measured the capacitance of the old ones for fun. The spec is 4.0, and these measured 4.31 and 4.25. Still inside the +/- 10% spec. More impressive is the fact that they are within 1.4% of each other. So, still have never found a bad cap in an old JBL X-over. I also wonder what the use history is on the ones that fail. Mike

[4313B]

Just went back and measured the capacitance of the old ones for fun. The spec is 4.0, and these measured 4.31 and 4.25. Still inside the +/- 10% spec. More impressive is the fact that they are within 1.4% of each other.Yeah, it's too bad they are mylar. I have a pair of stock 3113B's too.

[brad347]

Thanks for the thoughts! For some reason I'm rather unsurprised... do large value film caps really have a tendency to drift all that much? I'm always way more concerned with aging electrolytic caps than with aging film caps, as far as tolerances go.

[blvdre]

Brad -

Just a follow-up experiment re above discussion: I've been messing with a pair of old 4313B X-overs (approx 30 years old) recently and swapped the tweeter hi pass caps for "something better." Just went back and measured the capacitance of the old ones for fun. The spec is 4.0, and these measured 4.31 and 4.25. Still inside the +/- 10% spec. More impressive is the fact that they are within 1.4% of each other. So, still have never found a bad cap in an old JBL X-over. I also wonder what the use history is on the ones that fail. Mike

You also have to check the ESR. Older caps may hold their capacitance value, but become resistive with age, reducing the level of signal reaching your driver.