Spectrastrip Cables

[KCCT82]

From Drew Daniels' paper...


ADDENDA
Speaker cabling: Prepare speaker cabling for the high frequency horns only from multiple twisted pair Spectrastrip high-speed computer data ribbon cable. You can parallel as many conductors as you like to obtain the equivalent of a 14, 12 or 10 AWG.


I'd like to try them for my horns, does anyone know where to get the stuff? I tried searching on spectrastrip's site but there are so many models I have no idea which one to use... My compression drivers are GOTO 505TT from 300hz-1.5khz, TAD 4002 or 4003 from 1.5k-12.5k, and TAD ET-703 or JBL 2405H 12.5k<

Thanks~

[Mr. Widget]

Sorry don't have a clue about the wire and am way skeptical about any audible improvement, but I do have a question for you. Have you compared the TD-4002 without a throat adapter and TD-4003?


Widget

[KCCT82]

Have you compared the TD-4002 without a throat adapter and TD-4003?


Widget

Thanks Mr. Widget, funny you asked about the 4002/4003, my dad and I have been messing around the past few days, check out the pictures, will try to describe in words the difference soon...

Best Regards,
Keith

[KCCT82]

I'm guessing it's ok to go off topic in my own thread... :p

Our setup was:

TAD 1603 on tapped horn (20-65hz)
TAD 1101H on 1/2 space 53hz expo horn with 5in throat (65-292hz)
GOTO 505TT on 150hz expo (292-1.5khz)
TAD 4002 w/o adaptor on 400hz tractrix with 1.5in throat. (1.5k-12.2k)
TAD ET-703 (12.2khz<)

A few days ago my dad and I replaced 4002 with 4003 and kept everything else the same including the 400hz tractrix horns.

It's always hard to write about sound, but i'll try my best to make it worth reading. First of all there's no contest between 4002 and 4003... it is not because 4002 is poor sounding, 4003 is simply unbelievable. I can confirm most of the good comments you find on this forum and others regarding 4002's. If JBL and TAD drivers are in general a step above others, I'd say 4003 is another step beyond. The graphs that Mr. Widget provided some time ago show part of my 4003 listening impression. It is smooth and flat, but the most important thing is 4003's "energy" level, it puts the music to "10" without going overboard, it's a solid/full/clearly presented sound. It has the most dynamic sound I've ever heard (dad's too). I don't know much about the making of compression drivers, but I'd think the dynamic level has a lot to do with the magnet, if this is correct then 4002 should exihibit some of this quality (both neo magnet). If high gauss/flux is the thing then my GOTO driver is like 10 times higher than 4003... none of these drivers came close. Finally I took out TAD 2002 to see if it has some of 4003's quality. 2002 and 4003 are the newest TAD designs and both use "direct power coupling" technology. TAD gives you extra long banana plugs that go straight into the diaphragm instead of having to go through binding post, tiny wire inside, then finally diaphragm. Anyway, while 2002 is a bit nicer sounding than 4002, it's still far from 4003. In direct comparison, 4002 is a bit thinner/harsher sounding but these are not important, it is 4003's dynamic level and body that beats all others. In short, my dad called it "the king of drivers". To really put an end to our search for drivers we're getting a pair of 476be through 4313B so hopefully in a few months our minds can finally rest. My dad and I will compare 2452H-SL's, 476Be's, 4002's, and 4003's on the same horn :duel:

Mr. Widget, I've only used 4003 for a few days, please tell me more of your 4003 impressions, thanks.

Best Regards

[KCCT82]

The system:

[hjames]

The system:
OMG :jawdrop:OMG

Looks inpressive -

[richluvsound]

OMG :jawdrop:OMG

Looks inpressive -

I'm with you on this one Heather !!!!
Rich:p

[jcrobso]

I'm with you on this one Heather !!!!
Rich:p
Not only about the speaker system but the room that it's in. WOW!!!

[hjames]

Not only about the speaker system but the room that it's in. WOW!!!

I agree - I'm trying to figure what that upper level behind them is about -

Hey, KCCT82 - how about sharing some establishing shots around the room so we can get a sense of the space that speakers are playing in?

[KCCT82]

I agree - I'm trying to figure what that upper level behind them is about -

Hey, KCCT82 - how about sharing some establishing shots around the room so we can get a sense of the space that speakers are playing in?

Hello, the upper level does nothing, my dad and i wanted to even out the front wall by building a curved center and symmetrical doors, we're using the lower level as storage. The upper level is where I sleep when I visit :p

The room measures 30+ft from curved wall to back, 21.5ft wide, and 12.5ft ceiling. Here are some shots around the room and before/after...

[hjames]

Thanks so much for sharing again, and again,

WOW:jawdrop:WOW!

Great work refurbing that place ... looks like a cool loft space or something !

Keep us in the loop here as you work it further ...
Maybe talk a bit about your speaker designs ...
its an interesting vision!

[Mr. Widget]

Mr. Widget, I've only used 4003 for a few days, please tell me more of your 4003 impressions, thanks.A bit of history.

I was sucked into TAD land when I had an opportunity to buy a pair of secondhand TD-4001s a number of years ago. At the time I was listening to 2441s on my Westlake clone horns and liked them very much, but had been told by oldmics and others that I should check out the TADs. Having the opportunity to get an essentially unused pair at a great price, I jumped at the chance. I immediately heard greater detail and a degree of smoothness that I had not heard with the 2441s... essentially everything that the 2441s had done better than the 2420s, the TD-4001s did better than the 2441s.

I started designing my ultimate system based on the Westlake horn, TAD driver and JBL 1500AL woofer. A buddy came by and was impressed. He asked why I hadn't tried the TD-4003s. I told him I couldn't imagine they were that much better and they cost a small fortune. He offered to buy a pair and ET703 tweeters for me to play around with. The idea was if they were better great, I could build him a system with these parts, if they weren't better we'd sell them off. From another friend I borrowed a pair of TAD TH-4003 horns since they were purpose designed for that driver and the TD-4003's 1.5" exit wouldn't fit the Westlake horn without an additional adapter. Since TAD discontinued that horn and I liked it better than anything else I had heard, I ended up cloning it in a sonoglass like material.

When I first powered up the TD-4003/TH4003 combo I was completely blown away. The detail was as fine as any electrostat I had ever heard, the ease at which they produced sounds exceeded anything I had heard and at any SPL from soft to thunderous. The mids were so smooth and lacking any horn coloration... I was simply floored. Add to that the increased stage depth and width over the more up front sound of the JBL horns and drivers including the Westlake (Smith variant) and TAD TD-4001. Essentially the naturalness and speed these drivers posses is simply amazing.

There is a downside to these drivers besides the obvious cost issues. Since they are so effortless and quick, it is very difficult to get them to mate well with a driver below their operating range. I had to go away from the 15" 1500AL to a light coned 10" driver and even that may not be the ultimate. Using a horn as you are doing should help immensely with this integration.

As to your comments about the 2002 vs. the 4003... the 2002 has some of the features of the 4003, but no driver made has as light a diaphragm relative to its voice coil size and motor. The 4003 diaphragm is a 4" Be diaphragm as is the 4001, but due to it's construction, voice coil former and material thickness, it is simply crazy light... powered by a really massive neodymium magnet. The TD-2002 has a more conventional TAD diaphragm and also the alnico motor. Don't get me wrong, I think the TD-2002 is an outstanding driver, however the TD-4003 is simply the best in it's operating range that I am aware of. Don't believe the published specs about the top end of any of these drivers... they are all good, but every one of them could benefit from a proper tweeter. ;)

Widget

[KCCT82]

News Update:

Thanks to... you all know who ;)... TAAA DAAAAaaa~

[timc]

Incredible looking system!

Is that a 476Be you got there?


-Tim

[KCCT82]

Incredible looking system!

Is that a 476Be you got there?


-Tim


OH HELL YEAH.
:D:bouncy::cool::spin::rockon2:

[4313B]

Nice system there! :yes: That's a whole lot of work you've done. I hope you like the 476Be's.

[KCCT82]

When I first powered up the TD-4003/TH4003 combo I was completely blown away. The detail was as fine as any electrostat I had ever heard, the ease at which they produced sounds exceeded anything I had heard and at any SPL from soft to thunderous...

...There is a downside to these drivers besides the obvious cost issues. Since they are so effortless and quick, it is very difficult to get them to mate well with a driver below their operating range. I had to go away from the 15" 1500AL to a light coned 10" driver and even that may not be the ultimate. Using a horn as you are doing should help immensely with this integration.
Widget

Hello Mr. Widget :)

I agree, there probably isn't anything better than the TAD 4003's... so good that even my 5-way horn system can't match with it. Everything image and sound good, but noticeably better in the mid-high region (I'm using 4003 between 1.5-12khz). Violin and female voices stick out a bit and I don't believe it's a spl/level matching problem, the mid-high octaves just sound much clearer.

On the other hand, with my limited experience and knowledge I can't be sure if 4003 is really the cause for what I'm experiencing. The tractrix horn might have something to do with it. I need to make a 150hz tractrix horn for my Goto driver (300-1.5khz) to see if they'll work together better.

The 476Be's are overall very nice mid-high drivers with slightly better extension (than 4003?). It's also more laid back, setting in nicely with my system. I do hate a slight "plastic" sound that it adds to the texture of violin strings. I also realized that I needed a supertweeter on top even though JBL crosses them at 20k :dont-know ... With 476Be's more laid back presentation, I pulled out my brighter/harder attacking ET-703's and they mated quite well. So all in all I didn't get more detail (already got tons of those) but a more coherent signature. Oh, and the 476Be's sound more "Hi-fi"... whatever that means... In absolute sense I think TAD 4003 is the winner between the two, but I definitely enjoyed 476Be's in my system more.

Please keep in mind I only spent 2 days with these new drivers and I probably didn't time align/eq/cross/placed these horns the best I could. :p

Regards,
Keith

[4313B]

In absolute sense I think TAD 4003 is the winner between the two, but I definitely enjoyed 476Be's in my system more.The TAD's at a retail price of $3,570 each are actually quite a bit more expensive than the JBL's. JBL was fully aware of the 4003 and didn't seem all that fired up to build a compression driver to compete with it. We discussed it at one point.

[Mr. Widget]

The TAD's at a retail price of $3,570 each are actually quite a bit more expensive than the JBL's. JBL was fully aware of the 4003 and didn't seem all that fired up to build a compression driver to compete with it. We discussed it at one point.I doubt they really cared... from my conversations with them it seems they no longer design drivers as generic devices but rather design a driver to suit a particular need in a given system... if they can repurpose it and use it more than once all the better.

As for the differences? The TAD does look like it costs more to make and is probably slightly better, but the differences are likely mostly academic. Having heard both of these unobtanium drivers, I think either could satisfy most people's SOTA driver needs... if they can afford them and if they can find them. Neither of these drivers are easily purchased.


Widget

[Don C]

Just in case anyone is still interested in the original topic.
Ribbon cable is a reasonable way way to get a lot of current capacity and it has the neat side benefit of laying flat under carpeting. I have tried it in the past, I don't believe that there is any audible benefit over other good cable, but it doesn't seem to cause any audible problems either. Regular ribbon can be a bit risky as all of the strands are the same color, so you could easily count the strands wrong and create a short circuit. Spectra strip color codes the individul wires in the ribbon, making it easier to terminate.
http://www.newark.com/amphenol-spectra-strip/135-2801-050/flat-ribbon-cable/dp/78K6402