Brilliance-Presence

[midlife]

I have finally hooked up as much of my system as I can right now...Crown DC300, Crown Straight Line Two Preamp and Kenwood 8300 Tuner, with L166s. Kinda slammed it together, ie cheap interconnects, speaker wire and a non optimum speaker placement...unfortunately it is the best I can do for now...arrghh. All of this is ebay purchased and it sounds OK? And it was put together to see if the equipment is working, which it does, can I expect a little better performance with some tweaking, and what kind of tweaking should I be looking to do? I certainly know a tuner is not to be regarded as an exceptional signal. More to the point, for now I would like to be informed, by those who know, what the brilliance and presence pots really do? thanks, my ears are waiting...:bouncy:

[SEAWOLF97]

those 166's are a good start ..I just picked up another pair...FM is a crappy testing source, most likely have insufficient antenna....even a portable CD player is better.

Brilliance-Presence (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=255732#post255732) ?? essentially HF & MF ....set at zero and work from there in small increments

[midlife]

those 166's are a good start ..I just picked up another pair...FM is a crappy testing source, most likely have insufficient antenna....even a portable CD player is better.

Brilliance-Presence (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=255732#post255732) ?? essentially HF & MF ....set at zero and work from there in small increments
Yep the tuner is not the best source, however I'll give some credit to the Kenwood 8300 for putting up a pretty good show. Its what I have for now...ouch, the 166s are doing their best to acquit their selves under the circumstances. Unless my prelimanry assesment is wrong it seems the brilliance pot deals with tweeter (hf) attenuation and the presence control adjusts to a certain extent balance between mid and high. Am I getting it? Considering the fact I am using a marginal source and the other constraints what should I expect from the brilliance pots and presence pots? Trying to acess what I have under "flexible" conditions. Excuss the occasional spelling goofs, the faster I type the worse it will be...:biting:

[midlife]

Whoops, another example of premature critisimumacation (the girls will explain) , given a few hours of unfamiliar component introduction and run in it is sounding more balanced and less harsh and generally more acceptable. Not bad, I am encouraged, when introducing a better source(which is eminent) I am sure there will be yet better sonic results. The 166s are doing a pretty good job, my feet are up and its not disapointing***more to come>>> ;):):D

[midlife]

Four hours of new-used eqipment "run in" is producing very detailed audio. I should have known. The L166s are surprizing, maybe I did not know. The crossover performance is excellent. The driver response is also stunning for a so called bookshelfe speaker. They only become slightly challenged with an across the board frequency crechendoe, don't we all. There black noise and anuciation is very! comendabile, covering a variety of demands. Regretably overlooked, distinct, delicate, and sharp when asked so nice. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[MikeBrewster77]

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Why would and/or how could anyone? If you're enjoying what you're hearing, then obviously you've made a good choice.

In short, enjoy your new setup, and don't worry about getting external validation on how good it is. Just have fun with the music - after all, isn't that really the point? ;)

Best,
- Mike

[midlife]

Why would and/or how could anyone? If you're enjoying what you're hearing, then obviously you've made a good choice.

In short, enjoy your new setup, and don't worry about getting external validation on how good it is. Just have fun with the music - after all, isn't that really the point? ;)

Best,
- Mike
External validation would be nice but not really needed. I only wanted to share the experience, considering I had been without any sound system for so long. Excuse my enthusiasm. The interogative was surely retoracle (please forgive my atrcious spelling habits). A haphasardly thrown together system is working a little beyond my expectations and is pleasing. Be glad, I am;)

[SEAWOLF97]

Heck ...I mite have been the guy who originally recommended them to you..

I like 'em ..have had 3 sets so far..but I gave away my L1:):)'s to my son.

[MikeBrewster77]

Be glad, I am;)

I am - that's precisely why I wouldn't want you to fall into the trap of seeking reinforcement for what you're hearing. Just consider it a friendly recommendation to trust your own ears, and nothing more. :cool:

[midlife]

Heck ...I mite have been the guy who originally recommended them to you..

I like 'em ..have had 3 sets so far..but I gave away my L1:):)'s to my son.
How right you are............:)

[midlife]

I am - that's precisely why I wouldn't want you to fall into the trap of seeking reinforcement for what you're hearing. Just consider it a friendly recommendation to trust your own ears, and nothing more. :cool:
Its taken in the most friendly of terms, all good, pictures at eight:)

[MikeBrewster77]

... pictures at eight:)

Yes - pictures would be good! Can't get a new setup around here and not show off the goods! :p

[midlife]

Its impromptue'/crude & temp. More components on the way and a slightly! better install. but I'm not shy!!

[SEAWOLF97]

they will improve significantly when you get them up about 12-14 inches and slightly tilted back ...really , been dere , done dat..:D

and , as always ....pull those terrible OEM binding posts
and replace with something good, if not already done.

[BMWCCA]

So plug that DVD player into your Crown and get yourself a few good CDs so you can really hear what you've got.

Don't presume to know your musical tastes but I'm sure we can recommend some good discs to get you started.

[Mr. Widget]

Kinda slammed it together, ie cheap interconnects, speaker wire and a non optimum speaker placement..

More to the point, for now I would like to be informed, by those who know, what the brilliance and presence pots really do?Not exactly the same thing, but last year a buddy and I were asked to help a friend out. He had purchased a house with an included $120K Meridian system in it and he was very disappointed. His comment was, "My old $20K B+W system sounded much better, what is wrong with this system."

I brought along CLIO, a few slabs of Sonex foam and between my buddy and myself we dragged about 60 years of audio experience into the room...

From his description we had expected to find wiring issues or damaged equipment. After three hours of listening we had moved the speakers about two feet, toed them in a bit, relocated the subs, and turned up the digitally controlled "Brilliance and Presence" controls a dB and a half...

He was smiling and tapping his feet like a mad man possessed by the music.

It is really amazing the difference properly setting up a system can make, or how much magic a poor install can kill.


Widget

[midlife]

So plug that DVD player into your Crown and get yourself a few good CDs so you can really hear what you've got.

Don't presume to know your musical tastes but I'm sure we can recommend some good discs to get you started.
I like Dire Staits & similar, but I'm up for any "ear pleasers"...

[hjames]

I like Dire Staits & similar, but I'm up for any "ear pleasers"...

Lyle - Joshua Judges Ruth ...

Steely Dan - Aja

Fourplay -

[midlife]

Lyle - Joshua Judges Ruth ...

Steely Dan - Aja

Fourplay -
Its coming back to me....Dark side of the moon, Lee Rittneur, Pointer Sisters, Steveie Wonder, Supertramp, Allison Krauss, Clampton, War, Tears for Fears, and so much more; this could be fun ;)

[MikeBrewster77]

this could be fun ;)

It's 'posed to be :p

FWIW, Alison Krauss and Union Station are one of the groups I use to test a system - their recordings very much so lend themselves to determining how "real" a system sounds.

If you like Dire Straits, you may want to check out Knopfler's solo work as well - it's quite good.

Enjoy!
- Mike

[midlife]

It's 'posed to be :p

FWIW, Alison Krauss and Union Station are one of the groups I use to test a system - their recordings very much so lend themselves to determining how "real" a system sounds.

If you like Dire Straits, you may want to check out Knopfler's solo work as well - it's quite good.

Enjoy!
- Mike
Yep, he's one of my favorites, the cd he did with Emylou Harris (I think thats her name) "All the roads running" not bad. Gonna dust off a few others....Peter Gabriel, Melissa Ethridge, Robben Ford and the blue line, Sharde', Dr. John, Elton Johns artists tribute disc "Two Rooms" is very good, Fleetwood Mac, Van Morrison, Bonnie Raitt, Sting, Irma Thomas, Lyle Lovett........:applaud: PS, the run in time for this newly united equip seemed to be around a couple of hours, from objectionable sound to much smoother presentation.

[BMWCCA]

I like Dire Staits & similar, but I'm up for any "ear pleasers"... Yep, Sailing to Philadelphia is a good one of theirs.

Steely Dan's Two Against Nature always raises some eyebrows but it's a great listen. A second for that Lyle Lovett album. I'm not a fan of his but I might be now. What a fine album and a great recording. Might have to try his Large Band CD next.

Al DiMeola's Kiss My Axe will give your new system a workout! Especially track two, Embrace, if you want to see if your LF has enough punch.

http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/df/14/e373024128a07acd012ad010.L._AA240_.jpg

[midlife]

Yep, Sailing to Philadelphia is a good one of theirs.

Steely Dan's Two Against Nature always raises some eyebrows but it's a great listen. A second for that Lyle Lovett album. I'm not a fan of his but I might be now. What a fine album and a great recording. Might have to try his Large Band CD next.

Al DiMeola's Kiss My Axe will give your new system a workout! Especially track two, Embrace, if you want to see if your LF has enough punch.

http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/df/14/e373024128a07acd012ad010.L._AA240_.jpg
I had a Al Di lp years ago forget which one but I do remember I thoroughly enjoyed it! Nice pick, Have you ever listened to Hubert and Elouise Laws, mesmorizing.....sorry I meant Ronnie Laws, and the Dimeola lp I had was " Land of the midnight sun" if my grey matter hasn't failled me? And if your willing to give Lyle Lovett an audition I can recommend the "Pontiac" disc.

[midlife]

A little eeebay disappointment today. Connected the L65s and discovered a dead tweeter, 077> DOA. Could there be other problems causing this failure? I know little or nothing about speaker system diagnosis, what should I be doing. :banghead:

[grumpy]

bad L-pad, burned voice-coil, loose/corroded terminal/wire, crossover issues...

Do you have access to an ohm-meter? or can you swap tweeters in the cabinets and
see if the "problem" follows the tweeter?

[midlife]

bad L-pad, burned voice-coil, loose/corroded terminal/wire, crossover issues...

Do you have access to an ohm-meter? or can you swap tweeters in the cabinets and
see if the "problem" follows the tweeter?
I have a ohm meter, I set at 200 and the driver showed 7.0. If I swap the tweeters from cab to cab can I burn something up if this tweeter has a problem not reflected in the ohm check? I also rotated the pads back and forth, no static & no luck. But they seemed to trim properly?

[grumpy]

I have a ohm meter, I set at 200 and the driver showed 7.0. If I swap the tweeters from cab to cab can I burn something up if this tweeter has a problem not reflected in the ohm check? I also rotated the pads back and forth, no static & no luck. But they seemed to trim properly?

Does it emit a small "click" or a bit of static when you touch the ohmmeter leads to the terminals? 7 ohms sounds reasonable. If the other cab is working, swapping in one
that reads 7 ohms shouldn't be a problem... if it was dead, i'd expect an open circuit
100's of thousands of ohms or more (or much less likely, a short, <1 ohm)

[midlife]

Does it emit a small "click" or a bit of static when you touch the ohmmeter leads to the terminals? 7 ohms sounds reasonable. If the other cab is working, swapping in one
that reads 7 ohms shouldn't be a problem... if it was dead, i'd expect an open circuit
100's of thousands of ohms or more (or much less likely, a short, <1 ohm)
It makes an extremely faint static pop (barely audible) when I ohm the terminals.

[grumpy]

...then the tweeter should produce at least -some- sound if the
crossover components, L-pads, and wires are OK. Worth swapping
between systems.

[Audiobeer]

You have a fantastic setup without a doubt. Considering the crappy FM tuners out there you would be hard pressed to find a better one tan the Kenwood 8300. If you could get a set of the stands (Reproduction JBL) that you see a lot on ebay....welll that would help a lot as BMWCCA stated. a slight tilt upward towards your litening position. With the crown the L-166s should have some good slam also! :applaud:

P.S. I can't emphasize enough how important it is to clean all the input and output connections on your equipment and interconnects. One of the greatest improvements can be made here with older equipment that is often overlooked! P.S. did you buy those L166s from a seller in Missouri?

[midlife]

...then the tweeter should produce at least -some- sound if the
crossover components, L-pads, and wires are OK. Worth swapping
between systems.
Did the tweeter swap and the problem stayed with the cabinet. I wonder if I should consider upgrading both xovers? The L 166s really sounded good, the L65s just don't sound smooth...maybe I got an abused set?

[midlife]

You have a fantastic setup without a doubt. Considering the crappy FM tuners out there you would be hard pressed to find a better one tan the Kenwood 8300. If you could get a set of the stands (Reproduction JBL) that you see a lot on ebay....welll that would help a lot as BMWCCA stated. a slight tilt upward towards your litening position. With the crown the L-166s should have some good slam also! :applaud:

P.S. I can't emphasize enough how important it is to clean all the input and output connections on your equipment and interconnects. One of the greatest improvements can be made here with older equipment that is often overlooked! P.S. did you buy those L166s from a seller in Missouri? They were eeebayed from Bakerfield, Ca., very clean, play wonderfully. Paid $350. The Kenwood tuner, my only source at present, seems to do a great job. I am going to build my own risers with some lift and tilt. When the permanent install happens I will get some better interconnects and clean the contacts...thanks

[grumpy]

I'd go through the wiring first... at least the expensive bits weren't blown. :)
(in regard to the L65's)

[midlife]

I'd go through the wiring first... at least the expensive bits weren't blown. :)
(in regard to the L65's)
I did a quick wiring inspec and it seemed alright, probably go over it again more carefully. Should I try to identify the faulty component in the xover if I cannot find a wiring problem or take a shot at eeebaying some appropriate xovers. Or should I consider doing some research for updated xovers proven to enhance the L65s performance? thanks, would like to get these speakers working properly.

[grumpy]

If you look up the specific model here (L65, L65A, L65B):

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=10661

you'll see that there aren't many parts to check between the speaker
terminals and the tweeter (a capacitor, a resistor ... that if blown wouldn't
cause the output to quit, a tapped autotransformer and the L-pad).

Don't toss the transformer even if you decide to rebuild.

I'd still bet on the wiring or L-pad as likely culprits.