Interesting article on Beryllium

[Andyoz]

I saw this article on Beryllium posted on a UK forum I frequent and thought some here may be interested (I assume the author doesn't mind me spreading it around).

40060

[ratitifb]

Very nice and interesting doc :bouncy:

Could we know from what UK forum it comes from ?

[Ducatista47]

Interesting and distressing. I was expecting some marketing hype, but most of the "Be" offerings being outright fakes is an unpleasant surprise.

In the category of "don't shoot the messenger", the author


Steve Mowry was significantly responsible for the design and development of the Bose 2¾” plastic-basket-baffle multimedia AM5 Lifestyle “cube” transducer in 1997-1998, “Hotshot”. This in raw quantity is one of the largest-selling electrodynamic audio transducers of all time and is still being manufactured today.Nice to discover that huge sales figures transform cheap yet overpriced, under performing transducers into admirable feats of engineering.

The calculation that a true Be diaphragm would add only $30 US to a tweeter is interesting. The cost of the diaphragm must go up very fast with area, as GT wrote that the raw 4 inch pieces for the 476Be are $500 to JBL. I would have thought that manufacturing each piece would be the major pain in the rear, but the material itself seems to be driving the price. I am sure it is more difficult to get an acceptable quality piece the larger it is, but not by that much.

Nice read, thank you.

Clark

[Mr. Widget]

Interesting and distressing. I was expecting some marketing hype, but most of the "Be" offerings being outright fakes is an unpleasant surprise.Very interesting article!

I didn't see it as most Be tweeters are fakes... most of the Be speakers I have heard about were on the good list... essentially, the bad ones are those that are not from any of the big guns like Focal, Harman etc.

One of the more interesting parts was the fact that Brush Wellman was working on a 4" compression driver aftermarket Be diaphragm that will be available later this year. Putting one of those in a 375 or 2441 will not make it a TAD TD-4001, but they may make the difference rather academic. Unlike the Chinese sourced Be diaphragms that hit the market a few years ago, these will be the same pure Be that JBL uses in the 476Be.


Widget

[Andyoz]

Very nice and interresting doc :bouncy:

Could we know from what UK forum it comes from ?


http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/

:)

[bottleneck]

This article is good too -

http://www.berylliumproducts.com/documents/China_Be_Domes_Report.pdf


from the Wellman site.

Hopefully we will soon have genuine high quality BE diaphragms available at a cost we can afford.

[4313B]

Summary


Both domes are titanium.


No evidence of beryllium could be discerned based on EDXA, SEM or BFI images.


Wow... that sucks...



Hopefully we will soon have genuine high quality BE diaphragms available at a cost we can afford.I'm holding out for space shuttle rides at a cost we can afford.

[Mr. Widget]

Summary


Both domes are titanium.


No evidence of beryllium could be discerned based on EDXA, SEM or BFI images.Oh hell... Beryllium, Titanium, Unobtainium... what's the big deal. :applaud:


Widget

[Allanvh5150]

Summary


Both domes are titanium.

No evidence of beryllium could be discerned based on EDXA, SEM or BFI images.


Wow... that sucks...


I'm holding out for space shuttle rides at a cost we can afford.


I would like to get one of those as well but someone finally decided that that Shuttle idea was not that good after all and they are returning to Skyrockets with capsules on top that are very similar to Apollo. Who said vintage was not worth the trouble.....

Allan.

[4313B]

Who said vintage was not worth the trouble.....The U.S. Government has to go vintage, they blew all China's money in Iraq and China doesn't want to give any more away.

[Ian Mackenzie]

I am not convinced there is a necessity to have Be at all costs.

Based on recent auditions the titanium nitride laminate diaphragms used in some compression drivers from 18Sound are a close 2nd to Beryllium. The phase plug geometry of these particular drivers are similar to the 0435.

[Mr. Widget]

I am not convinced there is a necessity to have Be at all costs.You are absolutely correct... TAD and JBL have both used alternatives to reduce cost. For the ultimate in high frequency performance nothing else beats Be... well perhaps there is one material, a technique actually... ionic or plasma speakers. Unfortunately if used in a conventional room they can kill you, but what the hell. :bouncy:


Widget

[Ian Mackenzie]

True,

Like everything in audio there is the law of diminishing returns.

The other thing is Be has a different characteristic sound being more delicate or Hifi (but sometimes sterile) compared to the traditional chalky dynamics of vintage JBL Blue monitors. As has been said in recent times the best of older JBL 4 way's take a lot of beating and at a price not many are prepared to pay.

Oddly by Steve K and myself were less than impressed with a Be Focal system we heard in Japan compared to a JBL system. It sounded surgically accurate but was by no means as enjoyable to listen to.

[Jody]

I am not convinced there is a necessity to have Be at all costs.

Based on recent auditions the titanium nitride laminate diaphragms used in some compression drivers from 18Sound are a close 2nd to Beryllium. The phase plug geometry of these particular drivers are similar to the 0435.

Much as I hate to quote the marketing blurb....


A great innovation in the NSD1480N is the titanium nitride coated dome, that dramatically improves stiffness with obvious benefits in transient and intermodulation distortion response. With its very high value of elasticity modulus (six times higher than titanium and two times higher than beryllium), nitride coated film is capable of doubling the titanium stiffness. The piston frequency range motion extends frequency by 25%, showing a predictable, ideal frequency response decay and avoiding top-end spurious resonances. The nitride-free ellipsoidal suspension shape has been designed to maintain constant titanium stiffness, assuring a 3rd harmonic distortion lower than 0.05% over the whole working frequency range.

I also have been super impressed with these little beauties.
impressed enough to use them to replace my 4 x beryllium tad4001's.
I actually think they sound better than the TADs, but i am only running them from 3.9kHz, and it may well be that the TADs do it better, lower.
I'm currently working on a duel concentric speaker with the 18 sounds.
1st test speaker was ..... nice.

just another person with an opinion here, but check out the nitrides if you get the chance.