Altec Barcelona

[dkalsi]

Hi All,

I may be purchasing a pair of Altec Barcelona Speakers for my father as a Father's Day gift. He used to own a pair back-in-the-day, but ended up selling due to a move.

I wanted to get people's opinion on whether or not it is a good speaker and what they believe is a fair price for them used in decent condition.

Lastly - although I am sure he will be satisfied with the sound - I would like to help him mod them so they sound best they can. Hence, any mod tips are welcomed <-- I will post this last question in the DIY section of the forums upon purchase.

Overall, please share your thoughts on the Altec Barcelona and a fair price.

Thanks
D

[robertbartsch]

...there was a pristine pair on FleaBay recently for 3K, which I thought was high.

[dkalsi]

...there was a pristine pair on FleaBay recently for 3K, which I thought was high.

Wow - That is an absurd price - I have been able to locate a pair for significantly cheaper - but have yet to inspect the condition.

Have you heard a pair?

[robertbartsch]

The wood cabs in this auction were perfect which is very rare 30+ years after production ceased. Plus the seller specified a pick up only so seller shipping was not possible.

Anyway, the Barcelona and Santiago VOTT systems have 411 woofers and sealed enclosures. These were designed to provide extended bass, however, my recollection is that they did not sell well.

Most of the other VOTT systems have the 416 woofer in a vented box. Even these are somewhat rare in good condition.

Your other option is to purchase Altec components and have the boxes built to spec.

[robertbartsch]

I would rate the Barcelona system as very good but it is a subjective determination and others may dissagree. Since your father had a pair, you could assume he liked them just as much.

If you can find a pair in decent shape, buy them immediately as they will likely go fast.

The price range is really wide - probably $500 to $3,500 depending upon condition. Again, shipping is a major issue since the cabs are big and weigh a ton.

[toddalin]

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/ele/1212061468.html

[speakerdave]

Those are Sevilles.

[dkalsi]

The price range is really wide - probably $500 to $3,500 depending upon condition. Again, shipping is a major issue since the cabs are big and weigh a ton.

Well - the ones I have found are definitely towards the lower end of the price range (price is yet to be determined) - is it a good deal if I can get the just shy of a $1,000?

[robertbartsch]

...the condition is the key to value. If the cabs are in good shape and the drivers, crossovers are good and unmolested, 1K would be a fair price, I suppose.

At a minimum, I would listen to them before making any offer. Some buyers inspect the diaphragms, take Ohm readings and look at the woofers for sagging spiders, torn cones or damaged surrounds which is always a good idea.

Since they are probably over 30 years old, don't be surprised if you find poor cabs, non-original aftermarket diaphragms and aftermarket woofer recones.

[robertbartsch]

...obviously, you should make sure the drivers, horns and such are original or OEM replacement (e.g., the correct factory models for the application)

I believe the Barcelona had an 802 compression driver, 411 woofer, 511 horn and 500 crossover but you should check the reference material here first.

[dkalsi]

...the condition is the key to value. If the cabs are in good shape and the drivers, crossovers are good and unmolested, 1K would be a fair price, I suppose.

Well .. I am going to look at them this saturday - the buyer has agreed to a price of $750 - hopefully it will be worth it.

[dkalsi]

According to the following link:
http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/altec/catalogs/1971-home/page19.jpg

The Barcelona's have the 808-8A and 411-8A
Per review of the some of the forums here, many have suggested changing the 808 to the 802.

Is $750 worth my time?

[Tom Brennan]

According to the following link:
http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/altec/catalogs/1971-home/page19.jpg

The Barcelona's have the 808-8A and 411-8A
Per review of the some of the forums here, many have suggested changing the 808 to the 802.

Is $750 worth my time?


Yes, the guts alone are worth that, possibly more, depending on the day to day changes in the market for such things. $750 for a pair of Barcelonas sounds like an excellent bargain.

If you want to convert 808s to 802s simplest thing is to send them to GPA and the price isn't bad, I believe they change diaphragms and recharge the magnets for the cost of the diaphragms alone, should be a couple of hundred bucks and shipping for the pair. And maybe your father wouldn't care which drivers were used anyway, the difference can be very subtle for older ears.

[BMWCCA]

Is $750 worth my time?Maybe these from the DC Craig's List?
Altec Lansing and RTR speakers (http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/doc/ele/1205406288.html)
Jun 8, 2009 ... Altec Lansing Barcelona Speakers R T R towner speakers 750 obo.

[hjames]

Maybe these from the DC Craig's List?

Maybe not - gone Now!

[jimd]

The several pairs of Barcellona's I have seen had 802-8D drivers.

In all the years, I have seen only one blown 411, they are real tough speakers, I doubt if the woofers have been reconed. You may find the woofer foams to be deteriorated, however this is not a killer, it is an easy fix that can be done by most any recone shop.

Now, Altec did make a BiAmp version of the Barcellona, if you find these, don't turn them down. If they still work, you will have a wonderful audio experience. The 770 biamp sounded amazing, however, they were not a reliable ampliifier, newer parts can make them to be. You can replace the BiAmps with either an outboard set of amplifiers and crossover, or a standard crossover and an additional passive attenuator equalizer pad made up of a few resistors and capacitors. These are simple, I am sure someone on this forum has the schematic.

For 750 bucks, this is a not an issue, buy them, they are great speakers, the cabinets are awesome.

One thing I did find with a friends Barcellonas was that in the attenuator eg pads, the wires had broken off the capacitors due to age and vibrations, replacing them greatly improved the sound. These ought to be replaced with a good set of nice MPF capacitors anyway, the originals were no great shakes. The same goes for the caps in the crossovers.

Great spekers.

Jim

[dkalsi]

Jim,

Thanks for the great information. Unfortunately, I don't think these are the bi-amped version. The seller did mention that the foam surrounds were professionally replaced approximately 8 years ago - the speakers were then in use for another few years until they were recently put into stroage.

I will keep you posted.

Thanks
D

[dkalsi]

Hi All,

I acquired the Barcelonas. The d*amn thing is that the woofer surrounds were replaced not by a professional but by the owner owner himself. He did a terrible job - the voice coil of the woofers are rubbing in each speaker!!!!!!!!!!!

Is it best to just re-surround them - or to re-cone them?

Please let me know what you guys think and what type of potential cost I am looking at.

Thanks

FYI - The speakers components are as follows:
Main Driver - Altec 802-8D <<<< I really like the sound of the driver - very effortless - not the slightest distortion
Woofers - 411-8A
Crossover - 501-8A



http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x205/dkalsi/0614092041.jpg
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x205/dkalsi/0614092041a.jpg
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x205/dkalsi/0614092041b.jpg

[dkalsi]

bump

[Earl K]

(BTW) Great Fathers Day Present !

- Great Plains Audio (http://www.greatplainsaudio.com/) is the successor to the Altec legacy (Bill H. bought the orginal Altec tooling some years back ).

- Don't email / ( instead ) phone Bill H. to get his advice about the reconing vs refoaming question .

>< cheers :)

ps ; ( Since you've got nothing to lose now with the voice-coils already rubbing ) if you want to try your hand at refoaming , contact Rick Cobb ( [email protected] ) <[email protected]>whose ebay moniker is looneytune2001 .

- he'll walk you through the measurement process to then arrive at a conclusion to see if he has the proper foam to supply you with .

[BMWCCA]

bumpNot much point in bumping, especially so quickly. You already got the best referral—to GPA: http://www.greatplainsaudio.com/

As others have suggested here often enough: call them. They're supposed to have nice phone manners. I have no personal experience with them but many do and recommend them. They're in Oklahoma.

[robertbartsch]

...had a pair of 411s reconed by Bill at GPA recently - not cheap but grate job.

What about the HF drivers; you might want to consider doing these over too , I guess.

[dkalsi]

Not much point in bumping, especially so quickly. You already got the best referral—to GPA: http://www.greatplainsaudio.com/

As others have suggested here often enough: call them. They're supposed to have nice phone manners. I have no personal experience with them but many do and recommend them. They're in Oklahoma.

Sorry about that - I shoud not have "bump"-ed - but I was so pissed of that the woofer's coils were rubbing. The repair for GPA is going to cost me $120/each - for new cones and I cannot refoam because of the glue used by the original owner (it will totally damage the cone). So, $750 for the Barcelona + $240 for speaker repair + $50 shipping = $1040. This is substantially increasing the price of the gift :(

That being said - I am really impressed with the overall sound of the 802-8D and 511-B.

The only thing I am afraid of is that my dad currently uses the Klipsch Forte I, which have termendous bass. From what I have read, the bass on the Barcelona's are low, but not loud <-- I hope he can readust to the Altec sound - I think he just misses the mid-range of the Altecs. Besides the woofers, it is a really nice set - I would hate to hack the components (i.e. the 802 and crossover) and build my dad bass cabinets with better bass output/sensitivity.

[robertbartsch]

I've always thought the Kliphorns are really not up to snuff compared with Altec VOTTs.

I have a few Klips too...

[dkalsi]

I currently own a pair of Klipschorn, however - they have the JBL 2404H tweeters, and the JBL 2470 mid-range driver mounted on ALK Trachorn + ALK Extreme Slope Crossovers. So, my klipschorns are 75% JBLs and 25% Klipsch (i.e., the bass horn).

I am really satisfied with the sound.

[BMWCCA]

The only thing I am afraid of is that my dad currently uses the Klipsch Forte I, which have termendous bass. From what I have read, the bass on the Barcelona's are low, but not loud <-- I hope he can readust to the Altec sound - I think he just misses the mid-range of the Altecs. Aren't the Fortes the ones with the funky passive radiator on the backside? That bass won't impress him after he's had some old-school 15" bass to reset his ears. I have a friend with stacked Fortes and piles of Adcom amps and the entire system sounds rather unimpressive.

Your Dad will love the gift, the thought, and the effort.

The rest of youze guys can take that Klipsch talk over here: http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=25404

[dkalsi]

Aren't the Fortes the ones with the funky passive radiator on the backside? That bass won't impress him after he's had some old-school 15" bass to reset his ears. I have a friend with stacked Fortes and piles of Adcom amps and the entire system sounds rather unimpressive.

Your Dad will love the gift, the thought, and the effort.

The rest of youze guys can take that Klipsch talk over here: http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=25404


Yes, you are right- they are the ones with passive radiators on the backside. Overall they sound nice, but I like my Cornwalls (which are 100% stock Klipsch) and Klipschorns (which have been heavily modified with JBL components) more.

I like both, Klipsch and JBLs, and now the Altecs. There is no doubt in my mind that JBL and Altec componets are better - its just that they are alot more expensive as well. I think Klipsch can get you relavtively very good sound at a very low price.... JBL and Altec can get you the best sound possible but at a some what of a steep price. I will highly doubt you will find any Klipsch midrange driver that sells used for more than $150 bucks, whereas for Altec and JBL - the sky is the limit (and rightfully so since they do sound amazing).

[BMWCCA]

I will highly doubt you will find any Klipsch midrange driver that sells used for more than $150 bucks.You'd almost be lucky to find any two pair that matched. They really didn't care what drivers they used most of the time, and seemed to install whatever they happened to have around.

[dkalsi]

You'd almost be lucky to find any two pair that matched. They really didn't care what drivers they used most of the time, and seemed to install whatever they happened to have around.

I agree, I think on several occasions I have sold components out of a matched pair of speakers that did not even remotely contain matched components.

That being said, I am still very pleased with my Cornwalls. I see that you are in Virginia and I invite you to come audition some of the speakers I have (but please, don't plan on comparing the 4345 to the Cornwalls as it is not an apples to apples comparison). From what I have read, the 4345 are in a league of their own.

[BMWCCA]

I see that you are in Virginia and I invite you to come audition some of the speakers I have.Likewise:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=25352



;)

[jimd]

The owner got the Voice coils out of alignment. Take them to a reconer, have them cut out the dust cap, shim the coil properly, then remove the surround, have them install new ones and dust cap. Unless the VC's are out of round, they ought to work OK when you are done. Jim

[Tom Brennan]

You'd almost be lucky to find any two pair that matched. They really didn't care what drivers they used most of the time, and seemed to install whatever they happened to have around.

You exaggerate. The driver situation in their "real" speakers was pretty stable once a change was made, with several changes over a , what, 50 year period?

[BMWCCA]

You exaggerate.Always! But you can't say you weren't forewarned. That's the definition of hyperbolic. ;)

[dkalsi]

The owner got the Voice coils out of alignment. Take them to a reconer, have them cut out the dust cap, shim the coil properly, then remove the surround, have them install new ones and dust cap. Unless the VC's are out of round, they ought to work OK when you are done. Jim


Jim, sent you a reply to your pm!

Thanks

[spkrman57]

$240.00 + shipping for new cones on the 411A's will get you like new drivers you will not have to worry about for years to come!!!

Regards, Ron

[dkalsi]

$240.00 + shipping for new cones on the 411A's will get you like new drivers you will not have to worry about for years to come!!!

Regards, Ron

Shipped to Great Plains today. :)

I tried to work with the original seller to see if he is willing to share cost -(no respose-as expected).

Anyways, I am looking forward to a perfectly funtional pair of Altec Barcelona. Like I said earlier, I really like the sound of the Altec 511B + 802-8D driver - very warm.

[analog addict]

You'd almost be lucky to find any two pair that matched. They really didn't care what drivers they used most of the time, and seemed to install whatever they happened to have around.

Actually, you can say the same thing about Altec. Many times they used what they had lying around, like in Model 19's that would have different drivers. I've personally had that happen...:blink:

[Earl K]

Altec Barcelona

Hi All,

I may be purchasing a pair of Altec Barcelona Speakers for my father as a Father's Day gift.
He used to own a pair back-in-the-day, but ended up selling due to a move.


Hi Dhar,

I imagine that your Dad has really enjoyed the pair of Barcelonas that you gave him last Fathers Day .

If I may say so again , that was a really nice gift.

cheers Earl K

[Bob1951]

I purchased my Barcelona's used in1997, still have them as of 2016. Previously my main speakers were some 1978 Klipsch Heresy's. The Barcelona's are now the main speaker, and like Klipsch have excellent sonic qualities. The Heresy's are my front main effects in a 7.1 surround system.

I oil the cabinets once a year. Hope you have found a pair at reasonable price. I picked mine up for $800, I'm not sure I will sell them.



I would rate the Barcelona system as very good but it is a subjective determination and others may dissagree. Since your father had a pair, you could assume he liked them just as much.

If you can find a pair in decent shape, buy them immediately as they will likely go fast.

The price range is really wide - probably $500 to $3,500 depending upon condition. Again, shipping is a major issue since the cabs are big and weigh a ton.

[Ed Kreamer]

Hello Bob from the left coast

I thought you might like an anecdote regarding the 873 Altec. In the early-mid '70's I was working in HI-FI and the decision was made to use the then advanced Altec 729 equalizer to demo in our hi end room. Up till then I had thought that the AR-3 was the most accurate speaker made (I had not yet heard the AR-9, or I would have chosen that one). We decided to use the Klipschorns that were in that room for the demo. Also in the room were the Altec 873, 846, and the JBL L-300, among others. Bob Munger the Altec commercial contractor at the time came out and used his equipment to equalize the system. When it was finished I had to shelve my notions of AR accuracy, or really what I thought was accurate sound.

1. The un-equalized Khorns were any thing but flat.
2. The AR-3 was not flat. They started to have a rolled off response around 500 Hz.
3. The L-300 was very pleasing but not flat. It had a bass bump around 50 Hz or so.
4. The un-equalized 873 was very flat right out of the box, and the 846 was close, but with a rolled off high end

I was very surprised, and had a newly found appreciation for Altec. As I'm sure you are aware the 9846 was the commercial version of the 873 and was electrically identical. In my opinion, the 873 never got the recognition it deserved. Good for buyers, not so good for sellers. Enjoy what you have. There are few systems out there even today that can equal them.

Ed