Here's an original post...

[MikeBrewster77]

I'm looking for advice :rolleyes:

It's becoming painfully obvious to me that my hobby is going to need to be moved to another room in order to maintain some semblance of cohabitaional bliss.

[Personal background information] My other half loves TV - the damned thing could be on 24X7 and that would be A-OK. I, on the other hand could go weeks without ever turning it on. Different strokes, as they say. Since I made the mistake of buying a 46" flat screen about a year ago, it sits prominently in our living room now, and it (even to me) doesn't really make sense to move it into another room. To avoid an ongoing "struggle" over room time, I've made the decision to set up audio camp in a far smaller room in the house.

[The situation] Over the weekend, I bought some furnishings for my office to turn it into a hybrid that will also accommodate functioning as a listening room. It's hardly acoustically ideal, but I installed some wall treatments, dampening window treatments et al., to try to help out. I'm happy to invest in bass traps, diffusers, etc., but I'm also looking to move soon as well, so I don't want to spend too much on outfitting this particular space.

[The current state] The room is small (12' X 10', standard sheetrock walls) and I have the L46's in it. I have some pretty decent amplification equipment (Luxman pre-amp, McIntosh amp) in my main system, but found that the best pairing for the L46's is a Yamaha RX-797 receiver I had laying around; it seems to tame the tweeters which can be a bit harsh to me.

[The conundrum] I like the L46's alot and they make for a great secondary system, but if this area's going to be my primary listening space, I'd like something a bit more. I know there are several threads here that talk about best JBL's for a small space, but they're primarily focused on vintage and I'm leaning away from that direction, though I could likely be talked down. I'm looking at a few possibilities:

1.) Couple the higher-end amplification I have with a pair of Ti2K's, rationale being that they're readily available, are the right size, and are within my budget.
2.) Ditch the amplification I have, and go with active monitors (specifically the LSR 6325's coupled with a sub) rationale being that given the space I'm working with I'll be in a nearfield listening position anyway and wouldn't have to have racks of equipment.
3.) Look at other vintage speakers that deliver "more" than the L46's but are still suitable for a small space (e.g., L112's) rationale being that I'm familiar with the "sound", enjoy it, and figure it could only get better as I moved up the ladder.

[The advice part] Now that I've likely bored the ever living sh%t out of you, I'm hoping to get real world advice from members with experience with the newer set ups I've mentioned who can compare them to vintage counterparts. In other words, if you own the Ti2K's and also have heard vintage JBL 2-ways, what are your thoughts? Not so much looking for state the obvious replies (e.g., the Ti2K's only a 6.5 woofer - yeah, I know - kinda already looked into it :p) but would really value opinions derived from actual experience.

And of course, other suggestions outside of what I'm looking at are very welcome ... bearing in mind that I just recently spent several thousands on upgrading my system, and will likely have to tell several white lies about the cost of this endeavor. :wasnt-me: Budget = going internet retailer cost of LSR 4328's :).

Thanks for reading this long-ass post, and thank you in advance for any advice you can offer.

P.S., this would all be redundant if there was any place one could actually go to audition JBL speakers, but we don't want to re-open that who discussion do we? :o:

[Robh3606]

Why don't you get a pair of the 4328 from one of the on line chains or a local music store that offers a 30 day money back guarantee?? You know like Best Buy does. You can bring them home and play with them. See how well the boundary compensation and software work for you and compare them to the present set-up

http://www.zzounds.com/item--JBLLSR4328P

I have no experience with the TI2K.

Rob:)

[SEAWOLF97]

We are empty nesters in a 3 br home ....my solution was somewhat unconventional , but works great for us.

we moved the master bedroom into the family room (14x24 and further from the street) ....the old master bedroom is now the TV room (where my SO can also watch 24/7) ..... there is no TV in the living room.

The LR is now mine and loaded with 6 speakers and 4 amps. (all tastefully hidden)

summary:
she got a big TV room with attached bath
we got a big bedroom (with room for 2 desks , PC and 12 speakers ( HT and PC )
I got a dedicated listening room with comfy lounger ..etc.

[MikeBrewster77]

Why don't you get a pair of the 4328

That's good advice Rob, and actually was my first inclination when I looked into what JBL Pro has to offer these days. The only real concern I have is that as I read through the Google hits, there were recurring reports of issues with the channel imbalance, as well as an extreme sensitivity to fluctuating power levels which would cause the units to power down.

I also read at one post here that indicated that the driver quality was, well, lets just say "middle of the road."

The nice thing about the LSR 6325's is they have a nifty high-pass filter built in and accept input from unbalanced RCA connections; I could use them with just a pre-amp and the sub that I have today until I (maybe) spring for the sub from the same line. In short, they seem more compatible with consumer equipment which is what I have.

But they are in the running, thus them being the benchmark of my budget ;)

Thanks for the reply! Greatly appreciated :)

Best,
- Mike

[MikeBrewster77]

....my solution was somewhat unconventional , but works great for us.

Beats the one that I was contemplating that involved knocking down walls, drawing big lines on the floor with chalk, and yelling "that's your side - you can't come over here." :p

[boputnam]

[The current state] The room is small (12' X 10', standard sheetrock walls)...

[The conundrum] I know there are several threads here that talk about best JBL's for a small space, but they're primarily focused on vintage and I'm leaning away from that direction, though I could likely be talked down. :)

OK, I'll bite.

Two of my favorite considerations for that space are the 4313B's and of course the 4301B's. The latter will simply blow your mind - you'll never stop reflecting on their wonder; the 4313B's are a gift from JBL engineers. Both can be found on eBay and both will almost certainly require some refurbishing - that is a good thing 'cause many are here to help...

[robertbartsch]

The cimema stuff offers great sound at reasonable prices. The SR 3678 would be great for your 12x12 office.


http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/General/ProductFamily.aspx?FId=31&MId=1

[MikeBrewster77]

OK, I'll bite.

See, now you've gone off and confused me again :blink:. Truthfully, though, excellent suggestions and I appreciate the input.


many are here to help...

A more true statement could not be made! There is a wealth of knowledge here and among the membership that I feel very priveleged to have access to. :)


The cimema stuff offers great sound at reasonable prices. The SR 3678 would be great for your 12x12 office.

Interesting thought - it's the one end of JBL's product line with which I have no familiarity and I hadn't even considered that angle. I'll have to look into them if for nothing else than out of curiousity. Thanks!

[Doc Mark]

Evening, Mike,

I think that many others here at LH will have a more educated opinion than will I, but nevertheless, I'll toss in my own two cents, for whatever they are worth...

A while back, I scored a very nice pair of 4411's, and after having the woofers refoamed by our own Edgewound, hooked them up to our system at home, to see how we would like them. Now, please note that we'd already been enjoying our wonderful and long wished for L300's, and so the 4411's, good as they sounded, really never stood a chance against the L300's! BUT, I've said right here at LH, that the 4411's sounded good enough that, had we gotten them before we found our L300's, we'd very probably have been more than satisfied with their performance!! If we had added a good subwoofer to them, they would have been even better. In truth, I really do like the way they sound, and think that, with a nice subwoofer, they could do just about anything you asked of them. Again, just my opinion, and worth exactly what you paid to read it! Have fun setting up your new listening room, and hearty congratulations on getting the chance to do so. Both Sweet Bride and I feel the same as do you: we are NOT TV watchers, for the most part, and ours is never on, unless we have chosen to watch a particular event, or show. Otherwise, it's music, PERIOD, and no TV, which, to us, is a complete waste of our time, and little more than noise......!! ;) Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[MikeBrewster77]

Thanks for sharing your impressions of the 4411, Doc. I can understand that they couldn't hold a candle to your prized L300's, but the fact that they compare favorably speaks volumes. I've always liked the styling on them as well.

I'm with you on the television - I'll take listening to good music on my JBL's over watching that thing an day of the week (and usually do :D.)



A while back, I scored a very nice pair of 4411's, and after having the woofers refoamed by our own Edgewound, hooked them up to our system at home, to see how we would like them...

[midlife]

[quote=MikeBrewster77;254848]I'm looking for advice :rolleyes:

It's becoming painfully obvious to me that my hobby is going to need to be moved to another room in order to maintain some semblance of cohabitaional bliss.
Buy her some jewelry (and I don't mean a nude shibata stylus) and cohabitational bliss should flourish. ;)

[BMWCCA]

Two of my favorite considerations for that space are the 4313B's and of course the 4301B's. The latter will simply blow your mind - you'll never stop reflecting on their wonder; the 4313B's are a gift from JBL engineers. How different are the 4301b and the L19b?

No affiliation: http://ebayitem.com/390057836324

On the 4411s, etc; my short experience with the L96 has been pleasant, but for the tiny amount of additional space the 4411/L112/4412/A's take over the 10" boxes, I think I'd go with the 12". I realize many here praise the same-box-size 4410 over the 4412,but I have no personal experience with making that side-by-side comparison. I can run the L96 v. the 4412A as A-B and maybe I'll do that at some time. Of course I've done the GordonW modded L80T v. the L96 and (other than bass) I prefer the L96. Maybe the T3 crossover could help level that pair. Someday. But then I think the L5 bests all the 10-inchers I've tried, doesn't need stands, and has a small footprint. :blink:

[hjames]

I'm looking for advice :rolleyes:

It's becoming painfully obvious to me that my hobby is going to need to be moved to another room in order to maintain some semblance of cohabitaional bliss.
Buy her some jewelry (and I don't mean a nude shibata stylus) and cohabitational bliss should flourish. ;)

For us, when I drive somewhere to aquire a new item of audio-lust, I bring her along for the ride, make sure she approves, and there is always a great meal involved.

For instance, when I got the 4341 monitors, we got to see a real working recording studio, meet the engineer/musician that worked there, and afterwards had a great meal at Prudhommes Lost Cajun restaurant - Wonderful cajun food just a bit outside York PA, run by Paul P's cousin David ...

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=167067&postcount=1

jewelry helps too, but - be attentive and thoughtful ... Emma's got a Mac and has fooled around with "Garage Band" mac's music making software somewhat like Cakewalk .. Well, 2 weeks ago WOOT had a midi keyboard on sale for half price, so I got it for her, and when it arrived Tuesday, I surprised her with it ... no real event, "Call it an early birthday present" (her b-day is august). And surprise flowers for no particular reason is a nice way to let her know you care ... (not just when you buy something - be subtle!)

She's been learning garage band and having a lot of fun with it ...
and so far has kind of ignored the Ducklip speakers that arrived a day later ...
:applaud:

[Ralph856]

Mike

My living room is similar to yours at around 14 x 12 (but with additional kitchen area 14 X 5.5 at one end) and a very low 7.5 foot ceiling.

I've recently gone on an 'orgy' of buying JBL, from having none at all to aquiring a pair or L20T's, L19s, LSR6328P's with LSR6312SP sub and L96s.

I'm still trying to work out which I like best, and driven by what equipment. :)

[MikeBrewster77]

For instance, when I got the 4341 monitors, we got to see a real working recording studio, meet the engineer/musician that worked there, and afterwards had a great meal at Prudhommes Lost Cajun restaurant - Wonderful cajun food just a bit outside York PA, run by Paul P's cousin David ...

Your field trips sound like fun!!! The last one we did together was up in mid-west PA and was really nice. We hit some places of mutual interest, stopped for a bite to eat, and just enjoyed the drive. There's some nice scenery in those parts.


Buy ... some jewelry That doesn't quite work for my application, but the general intent does ;). And Heather, has a great point about being subtle in timing - it's pretty transparent if things aren't spaced out properly. Kinda like going out and buying a brand new car and grabbing your kid a matchbox so they feel like they got something too - there's just something not quite balanced about that equation...

Truth be told, the other half's quite the good sport about the whole "hobby." I occassionally hear a "are we done for a while?" after a buying spree (and it does seem to go in "sprees") but that's about the extent of it. Guess I'm a pretty lucky guy :D

[Ralph856]

I can run the L96 v. the 4412A as A-B and maybe I'll do that at some time.

I would be interested to hear what you think in a room that size.

[MikeBrewster77]

.. aquiring a pair or L20T's, L19s, LSR6328P's with LSR6312SP sub and L96s.

I'm still trying to work out which I like best, and driven by what equipment. :)

Hey Ralph -

Congrats on your new purchases. Your line up is actually exactly the kind of comparison I was hoping someone could provide an opinion on. Any thoughts on say the L96's vs. the LSR6328's or is it still too early to tell? What kind of amplification are you using on the non-powered models? Also, what do you have the LSR's hooked up to since they only accept balanced inputs?

Best,
- Mike

[Ralph856]

Hi Mike

I've only had the LSR6328P's with LSR6312SP a couple of days so my impressions, stated below are only initial ones! Compared to the L96s, obviously only 2-way, but faster sounding. The Differential Drive technology of the 6328's contributes to a high system sensitivity of 96db / 1m, a lot higher than the Dynaudio BM12a's I recently used and, at 28 litres, over double their volume. The sensitivity helps them sound very listenable at extremely low volume, almost no volume- the sub too! This is a massive plus point if you live in close proximity to others. Very impressive!

On the downside, I find the monitors have a slightly diffuse, soft, grainy quality but I guess that could also be described as 'natural', no doubt great if you are mixing all day. However, I'm getting used to the new presentation and can hopefully live with it.

The sub doesn't go 'that' deep (but deep enough:)) and the only way to reduce bass output, if not using RMC, is a 4db cut below 50hz- or can be done even more effectively by lowering input sensitivity. I'm not sure why this decreases bass output so markedly? Impedence, I guess.

I'm running them unbalanced, using a quarter inch male x1 to male x2 y-cable from headphone out of my RME soundcard to the sub. The grounding of this cable means no audibe RFI hum from the PC. I previously used a rca cable with neutrik rca to XLR adaptors into the sub but got hum. There is nothing stopping you using a phono lead and neutrik adapters straight into the sub or monitors.

The L96's may be a little too big for your room and need eq on the bass. Maybe? I was using Berning ZH270 OTL monos, around 140 watts into 8 ohms, with a passive pre utilising Dave Slagle auto-formers. There's no question at all that the Bernings sounded purer and more open than the Class AB amps of the LSR's, as they should. On one hand, the actives resolve amazing detail, yet are not truely as transparant as the Bernings with a good passive speaker. But with the actives, everything's been designed to work together.

If I can work out how to connect them up, I'd like to try the L96s with the LSR6312SP.

My overall verdict from playing around in this cosy space, is there are clear advantages to cutting your monitors below 85Hz (whichever ones you choose) and using a sub.

[macaroonie]

:)

OK, I'll bite.

Two of my favorite considerations for that space are the 4313B's and of course the 4301B's. The latter will simply blow your mind - you'll never stop reflecting on their wonder; the 4313B's are a gift from JBL engineers. Both can be found on eBay and both will almost certainly require some refurbishing - that is a good thing 'cause many are here to help...

Thats what I was going to say !!!!!! Oh and L96 also

[Ralph856]

Hey Ralph -
Congrats on your new purchases.

Thanks!http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb184/DavidS_025/DSCF1631-1.jpg

[evans224]

How different are the 4301b and the L19b?

No affiliation: http://ebayitem.com/390057836324

On the 4411s, etc; my short experience with the L96 has been pleasant, but for the tiny amount of additional space the 4411/L112/4412/A's take over the 10" boxes, I think I'd go with the 12". I realize many here praise the same-box-size 4410 over the 4412,but I have no personal experience with making that side-by-side comparison. I can run the L96 v. the 4412A as A-B and maybe I'll do that at some time. Of course I've done the GordonW modded L80T v. the L96 and (other than bass) I prefer the L96. Maybe the T3 crossover could help level that pair. Someday. But then I think the L5 bests all the 10-inchers I've tried, doesn't need stands, and has a small footprint. :blink:
I haven't heard the 4411's or L96. However, I have owned both the 4410 and 4412 and listened to them side by side. The 12" woofer is what I went with (it can move some serious AIR), and sold the 4410's. But I completely agree with the L5 assessment. The 4-way system really sets it apart.

[MikeBrewster77]

And I MUST tell you about my problems! :blah:

The universe giveth, and the universe taketh away. Or, Karma's a bitch. Or, there really is an entity generally referred to as God, and she or he is pissed at me for some reason or another and decided to smite my hard drive today. :( But, I digress.

In much happier news - the PT800's came today!!!

I alluded to the fact that they had been ordered in another post, but to bring this thread full circle, I did stick with my original thought which was to buy a more modern JBL offering for my newly established listening room/man-cave/office. Wanna see pictures? Good, 'cause they're attached :D

I won't bore you by going on and on extolling their virtues; I think that's been adequately covered elsewhere on the forum, and let's face it, I'm a bit late to the party given that they might be considered by some (including JBL themselves) to be "classics" by now.

Suffice it to say that I'm in a bit of awe. The past few months of upgrading my system have been the culmination of many years of lusting after a true "hi-fi" setup - the best part being that JBL can still be a part of that. For all my bitching about product availability et. al., these speakers prove that JBL is still a very viable force to be reckoned with. :bouncy:

I'm also extremely pleased that they seem to be very happy in a smaller room - not overwhelming it at all, to the point that the Rane EQ was taken out of the signal path. After just a little tweaking of the treble control with the turnover set to 2K, they sound right at home.

Thanks for all the recommendations everyone shared here - I truly appreciate your input and enthusiasm!

In sadder news, my hard drive crashed and burned today. Totally unrecoverable - game over man! Easily more than a grand in purchased music that I stupidly did not back up went bye-byes (along with pictures, work documents, tech sheets and manuals for all the JBL speakers I own, etc...) :banghead: Take it as a friendly PSA from me, folks - back your shit up!

Nonetheless, even after a day that would normally have me kicking dogs and punching babies (I'm kidding ... I'm KIDDING :rolleyes:) the PT800's have a smile on my face that makes me look slightly insane ;) And that's the power of JBL :applaud:

[Ralph856]

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb184/DavidS_025/gem2_416.jpg

Interesting! They seem similar to Revel's Ultima Gem 2. Although only 86.4 db sensitivity and down to 70Hz for the Ultima's against 91db and 50Hz for the JBL's.

http://www.revelspeakers.com/products/specifications.asp?product=30

[MikeBrewster77]

Interesting! They seem similar to Revel's Ultima Gem 2...

Indeed! ;)

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=256390&postcount=45

[Doc Mark]

Morning, Mike,

Sorry to hear about your HD, but congrats on getting your PT800's!! Is it possible to see a photo of them without their grills, please? How do you describe their sound, with various kinds of input material? Again, well done, and thanks for the warning about backing up our goodies. Well taken.... Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[JBLAddict]

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb184/DavidS_025/gem2_416.jpg

Interesting! They seem similar to Revel's Ultima Gem 2. Although only 86.4 db sensitivity and down to 70Hz for the Ultima's against 91db and 50Hz for the JBL's.

http://www.revelspeakers.com/products/specifications.asp?product=30


Interesting differences in xover points.....650/3200 for the PT800 and 400/2400 for the Gem.....wonder how this affects the sound? or in general how different the sound at 5X the price considering the near identical drivers (though guessing the GEMs tweeter is on a higher Audax rung than the PTs--the TiK, PT, and Revel all use Audax tweeters, right?)

[MikeBrewster77]

Morning, Mike,

Sorry to hear about your HD, but congrats on getting your PT800's!!
Thank you :(, and thank you! :)


Is it possible to see a photo of them without their grills, please?
Well, since you asked so nicely ;)


How do you describe their sound, with various kinds of input material?
In a word - marvelous! And, you're in luck because I have pretty diverse taste in music. So, after reading your inquiry earlier, I thought hey, let's put them through their paces with a little bit of everything I've got. So I cycled through the following tracks:

Rock: Telegraph Road - Dire Straits & Rock and Roll (Live) - Heart
Dance: Work (Freemasons Club Mix) - Kelly Rowland
Trance: Traffic - Tiesto
Pop: Integral - Pet Shop Boys & Viva La Vida - Coldplay
Modern Jazz: Always Let Me Go (entire album) - Keith Jarrett, Gary Peacock, Jack DeJohnette
Classic Jazz: Lady Bird - Coltrane
Country: Mud on the Tires - Brad Paisley
Bluegrass: When You Say Nothing at All - Alison Krauss
Symphonic/Classical: Symphony no. 9 - Schubert & Winter (Four Seasons) - Vivaldi

I went into this exercise looking for deficiencies. It honestly wasn't so much about enjoying the music as learning the speakers because let's face it - nothing's perfect, right? Personally, I like to identify the flaws in a new component quickly so I can correct what I'm able, accept what I can't, and then stop dwelling on the equipment itself and truly enjoy what's coming out of it.

I won't bore you with all of my listening notes (translated: I'm far too lazy to type all of that) but I can honestly say they passed every test with flying colors.

Alison Krauss' vocals were beautiful and delicate, which is a tough act to pull off (on lesser systems her voice can sound harsh, shrill, or strained when she really puts some power into her vocals.) There was an impressive airiness to the performance, and the strings were simply gorgeous, with a distinct wholeness to their reproduction.
Heart's live performance sounded, well ... live. Enough said.
I chose the modern jazz recording I used because the musicians are actually a client of my "sound guy" and I've heard the recording several times on extremely expensive systems. The JBLs' gave up virtually nothing; and while I have decent upstream equipment, it's not all on par with the systems I've heard this recording on, so it's actually not a fair comparo.

I also use piano music as a reference for realistic sound since I'm classically trained myself, and after playing for as many years as I have, I know that sound. All I can say is what I heard was spot on.

The dance and trance tracks are great tests of bass, and the PT800's midbass was spectacular. Quick, tight, dynamic and never muddy or boomy - truly impressive. The only thing it made me realize is that it's time to upgrade my sub - it kinda sorta held its own, but it wasnt really fair to ask it to. Damnit - I knew there was a reason I should have taken shop in school - I could build my own... :banghead:
The jazz tracks with their more intimate approach displayed the JBLs' ability to render an extremely accurate, yet wide soundstage with a nearly holographic presence.
The only selections I approached with any trepidation were the classical pieces, yet I truly was not disappointed. Each individual instrument was defined in space, and sounded like the actual instrument it was (i.e., not just "some string instrument")
The only thing negative I can say (and it's actually a positive) is that their accuracy makes them picky re: source material. The Vivaldi piece I played was a cheap-o recording, and it sounded it; everything sounded cardboard-ish. I know that's not a word, but it's the only way I can describe it. :rolleyes: The Schubert piece OTOH is a Deutsche Grammophon recording and it sounded spectacular. Other than that, the only few things I picked up on that were less than ideal can be attributed to the sub needing to be upgraded and a less than perfect listening room.

So, as I mentioned I went into this expecting to identify the shortcomings, but in spite of myself I just wound up enjoying the music. In short, if you haven't previously and you have the opportunity to hear them, I don't think you'd be disappointed! :D

[Doc Mark]

Evening, Mike,

WOW! That was a fantastic report, and you covered all the bases admirably, my Friend! Many thanks for taking the time to share that info. Much appreciated. Thanks, also, for the great photo. The new JBL's look fine with, or without their grills. So, I must congratulate you again, Mike, on scoring what appears to be a huge grandslam with your new JBL's! Well done, and I'm sure well appreciated by your ears. I look forward to hearing a pair of those one day, myself. Thanks, again, happy listening, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[JBLRaiser]

I see you went with your 'gut' instinct and bought into more recent technology. T-Dome has been a strong advocate for this series and has written much on the subject. I was thinking with the smaller room, a 10" or 8" woofer would suffice. And if you ever decide you long for feeling the lows in your 'bowels', the PS1400 will bring the bacon home. I think once I get my fill of vintage speakers(I'm playing the catch up game), I would love to get some newer JBL's. It just makes good audio sense. Enjoy your new acquisition and let us know your experiences.:applaud:

[MikeBrewster77]

So, I must congratulate you again, Mike, on scoring what appears to be a huge grandslam with your new JBL's!
Every Good Wish,
Doc

Thank you Doc! I appreciate the well-wishes and I'm sure you'll continue to see a "few" posts from me in the future continuing to extoll their virtues. ;)


I see you went with your 'gut' instinct and bought into more recent technology. T-Dome has been a strong advocate for this series and has written much on the subject. I was thinking with the smaller room, a 10" or 8" woofer would suffice. And if you ever decide you long for feeling the lows in your 'bowels', the PS1400 will bring the bacon home. I think once I get my fill of vintage speakers(I'm playing the catch up game), I would love to get some newer JBL's. It just makes good audio sense. Enjoy your new acquisition and let us know your experiences.:applaud:

Thank you Mr. Raiser! I definitely got some great advice from the good folks here (all of which I appreciate and seriously considered) but in the end decided to go with a newer offering.

To your point, a lot of what I read here by Dome and several others sharing very positive experiences with the system was a strong part of my decision to take a chance on them without the ability to hear them first.

I've been eyeing the subs since the day the PT800's arrived. Bad Mikey ... BAD Mikey!!! :slink: Truth be told, I think they would over-power the current room, but, in a different space...:hmm: