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ka7niq
05-16-2009, 08:38 AM
I picked up a pair of these "forgotten" older JBL Flagships a few days ago locally.
The were the Flagship of the older Studio or S Series.


I am VERY impressed with these speakers.
I own B&W 801's
They are my reference speaker that all speakers I buy get compared to.
MOST speakers will not stand comparasion to a well set up B&W 801, for long.
These JBL's suprised the hell out of me.
Make NO mistake, this is an Audiophiles Speaker in every way.
The wide baffle gives a big warm sound, with authority in the lower midrange.
No thin sound here, even 4 feet out from the back wall!
Not QUITE as 3 dimensional as the B&W 801's, but imaging is very good, and the overall sound is big and majestic.
This JBL metal tweeter is devoid of harshness, unlike the Titanium POS Tweeter used in the JBL L7's I used to own.
THAT tweeter had phase distortion problems you could HEAR :(
Very FEW tweeters can match the B&W Tweeter, or even come close.
This tweeter is sweet, shockingly detailed, and smooth.
It lacks a LITTLE "air" compared to the 801 tweeter, but it is very close.
I feel the JBL S412P's biggest strength is reproduction of timbre.
It just sounds like Music.
Like the 801, and VERY few other speakers, it has that oh so elusive elusive ability to sound "real" at times.
Whoever voiced this speaker KNEW what music sounds like, and it is oh so evident the more you listen to this masterpiece.
Guitar Solo's, Hand Claps, and Saxaphones have had me shaking my head in utter disbelief.
HTF can JBL do this ?
Voices have just a TOUCH of extra warmth compared to the 801's.
Female voice is wonderfully reproduced.
Take for example the Band Till Tuesday ?
Remember them ?
They do that song "Hush Hush, voices carry"
That is a BITCH to get right.
The Big JBL's are up to the task.
Joan Osborne singing "What If God Was One Of Us" will give you goosebumps.
Not only is she reproduced warm and romantically, but the guitar solo is clear outside and 5 feet back behind the left speaker.
Sara McLaughlin is well done, as are every female vocalist I have tried.
Even Patty Smythe singing "I am the Warrior" is "listenable".
Quarter Flash singing "Gonna Harden My Heart" will make hair stand up on your arms when the Saxaphone Solo comes in.
The Sax is convincingly rendered in that song.
The intentional guitar "fuzzbox" distortion in Black Sabbath's Paranoid must be heard to be believed.
Bass on these is ok, not particulary deep, maybe down to 35 or so ?
But what is there is fast and tight, with decent impact.
I have 25 CD's I use for speaker evaluation.
MOST speakers can't get through the first 5 CD's before i hear problems compared to the 801's.
I am happy to report that the JBL S412 passed ALL 25 CD's with FLYING colors vs the B&W 801's.

A MOST impressive acheivement JBL !!!!


I plan a more thorough review for these speakers, but I just wanted to share my excitement for them.
These speakers are 10 years old, but can be found used in good condition if you look.
HOW these ever "escaped" the Audiophile Press is beyond me ?
JBL's sister company Infinity was getting ALL the "attention" back when these were made.

Perhaps we passed these up because we thought they were just "Home Theatre Speakers" ??
And Mass Produced JBL's sold at Best Buy CAN'T be "Any Good" right ?
WRONG WRONG - Oh So very incorrect Guys !

SEVERAL pairs of well known "Audiophile Approved Speakers" have come and gone through my home over the years.
"Fallen Victims" of the B&W 801's that exposed them for the "Pretenders" they really were.
I am happy to report the JBL S412p's have not only survived direct comparasion to the 801's, but have done so with flying colors.

I plan on calling JBL after Memorial Day and FIND the Engineer responsible for the design of these speakers, IF he is still there ?

Just to let him know SOMEONE appreciates his considerable accomplishment.

oznob
05-16-2009, 08:51 AM
Very nice review of a great speaker Chris! I have never heard that model but owned the model below the S412, the S312. I was very pleased with its overal sound, especially the puchy mid-bass. The only issue with the S412 that I have read is that some had amplifier issues and replacements were/are near impossible to find.

That speaker has always intrigued me and I would love to hear a pair in proper working order. Glad to hear they gave the venerable 801 a rund for its money!:applaud:

ka7niq
05-16-2009, 09:02 AM
Very nice review of a great speaker Chris! I have never heard that model but owned the model below the S412, the S312. I was very pleased with its overal sound, especially the puchy mid-bass. The only issue with the S412 that I have read is that some had amplifier issues and replacements were/are near impossible to find.

That speaker has always intrigued me and I would love to hear a pair in proper working order. Glad to hear they gave the venerable 801 a rund for its money!:applaud:
They are AWESOME :)
SOO Musical.
I have a tech that can fix ANYTHING, so I fear not ;)
The S412's are in the other room playing Natalie Merchant as we speak!
HTF the 412's ever "escaped" the audio press is beyond me ?
Back when they were made, Infinity was getting all the attention :banghead:
They had the Canadiens, and all the NRC story stuff :blah:
But I actually OWN the Infinity IL 60 that was made at the same time as the JBL S412P's.
The 412 is so much more musical it is not funny.
Actually, MOST of the time the 412 actually sound better then the Matrix 801 :applaud:
ONLY on the BEST recordings does the 801 show it's slight superiority.
I just LOVE thye S412P's :D

LowPhreak
05-16-2009, 05:34 PM
HTF the 412's ever "escaped" the audio press is beyond me ?


Because JBL is not advertised much in the audio press, so they can't pay their bills by giving fawning reviews of them. There are too many others that are willing to pay for the ad space, and get a chance at a great review which will help to propel sales of a given component. Infinity, and some of the Canadian companies like PSB and Bryston however don't mind paying for a full-page ad in the glossies, so you'll see that stuff getting raved about more often. ie: you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours.

Last JBL consumer speaker I saw reviewed in an audiophile mag was the L880 in Stereophile (http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/906jbl/) in 2006.

ka7niq
05-16-2009, 06:27 PM
Because JBL is not advertised much in the audio press, so they can't pay their bills by giving fawning reviews of them. There are too many others that are willing to pay for the ad space, and get a chance at a great review which will help to propel sales of a given component. Infinity, and some of the Canadian companies like PSB and Bryston however don't mind paying for a full-page ad in the glossies, so you'll see that stuff getting raved about more often. ie: you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours.

Last JBL consumer speaker I saw reviewed in an audiophile mag was the L880 in Stereophile (http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/906jbl/) in 2006.
VERY True !!
I got caught up in the Hype myself :)
I HOPE JBL survives.
I hear Infinity is in trouble ??

LowPhreak
05-17-2009, 09:36 AM
I don't know what's up with Infinity nowadays. Last set of them I had was the 10" 2-way RSa's many moons ago...

ka7niq
05-17-2009, 09:50 AM
I don't know what's up with Infinity nowadays. Last set of them I had was the 10" 2-way RSa's many moons ago...
The small Primus 360 is supposed to be a decent speaker for the money.
The Interlude Line did not sell well.
Floyd Toole is gone from Infinity, but some Canadiens remain.
The OLD Infinity stuff was well regarded.
But the sales are just not there for Infinity.
Klipsch is kicking BUTT :(
They BOUGHT Energy !!!
I HOPE JBL can survive ??

Ralph856
05-18-2009, 04:33 AM
Very nice review of a great speaker Chris! I have never heard that model but owned the model below the S412, the S312. I was very pleased with its overal sound, especially the puchy mid-bass. The only issue with the S412 that I have read is that some had amplifier issues and replacements were/are near impossible to find.

That speaker has always intrigued me and I would love to hear a pair in proper working order. Glad to hear they gave the venerable 801 a rund for its money!:applaud:

I almost bought a pair of s/h S312's a few weeks ago for a £100, but the seller changed his mind about the sale. They struck me as being a lot of speaker for the money (they sold quite cheap new, i think), with 12" woofers, deep bass and 92db sensitivity (claimed).

Haven't noticed anymore going s/h though. It seems they were on sale new on Amazon until fairly recently (now listed as unavailable)

Rusnzha
05-21-2009, 01:11 AM
A while back I had the opportunity to listen to a 7 way, $5600/copy set of Legacys in a 5.1 set up. I thought I was hearing something cool for a while, but as I listened to different things, they all sounded the same. By the time the afternoon was over, I was tired of them. I got home to my S412s, put something on. I could hear the sound of the music instead of the sound of the speaker. The Legacys were :bs::barf:next to them.

Ralph856
05-21-2009, 04:06 AM
What drivers were used in this series or speakers? (S310, S312, S412)

LowPhreak
05-21-2009, 05:05 AM
The OLD Infinity stuff was well regarded.


Yes I know, that's why I had the RSa's...one of the best sounding sealed-box 10" 2-ways I've ever heard, except I always wished they were mirror-imaged. Always wanted Betas or Gammas, then later Kappas. As if I could afford them back then. lol I do miss the EMIT's.

Rusnzha
05-21-2009, 07:50 AM
What drivers were used in this series or speakers? (S310, S312, S412)

The only designations these had were part numbers.

http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_browse/partlist.asp?BrandId=JBL&MarketId=HOM&Parts=S412PBE

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=10866&highlight=Studio+Series+Exposed

oznob
05-21-2009, 10:29 AM
The only designations these had were part numbers.

http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_browse/partlist.asp?BrandId=JBL&MarketId=HOM&Parts=S412PBE

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=10866&highlight=Studio+Series+Exposed

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=10661&highlight=cf150

You can go here and scroll down to S312 Studio and check the tech. sheet.

Ralph856
05-21-2009, 04:03 PM
According to Harman's parts and accessories page, with the S412, the mid bass and tweeters are no longer available (disappointing considering they are not that old)

With the S312, the drivers are available but not replacement networks.

Titanium Dome
05-21-2009, 04:14 PM
According to Harman's parts and accessories page, with the S412, the mid bass and tweeters are no longer available (disappointing considering they are not that old)

With the S312, the drivers are available but not replacement networks.

Those PolyPlas® drivers are in lots of enclosures, so I bet there's a compatible replacement out there with a slightly different number. The gold ones have different numbers than the copper ones, which have different numbers than the silver ones, which have different numbers than the black ones. There might be some minor cosmetic or frame differences, but I could drop the 8" woofer from my E50 into an S38 or S38II and you'd never hear the difference.

The one thing that really has changed is the tweeter. There's no swapping there, but there are non-OEM units at some of the supply houses from time to time.

hjames
05-21-2009, 04:58 PM
I thought the real kicker with these speakers is the amp - I mean,
model S412p - the P is for powered speaker, right?
I thought another member had an amp go and said
it was impossible to get a replacement AMP module ...

Rusnzha
05-21-2009, 06:47 PM
I thought the real kicker with these speakers is the amp - I mean,
model S412p - the P is for powered speaker, right?
I thought another member had an amp go and said
it was impossible to get a replacement AMP module ...

Mine are doing fine because I play them at a comfortable level. When they are played hard over a period of years, somethings gonna go, but there is no reason they can't be fixed.

Cliff
05-25-2009, 12:41 PM
The amp in one of my S412PIIs was just in two factory authorized JBL shops and neither could repair it. The most recent one said that the original parts that were damaged were lead based and could not be exactly replaced. The replacement parts that were installed do not seem to work as there is no bass output. Do you think its possible to use a third party sub woofer amp (outboard) and if so, what specs should the amp have so that it is somewhat compatible. I contacted JBL and they confirmed that there are no amps available. Its a shame because the system is truly awesome and I would hate to not having it perform up to its capability.

Ralph856
05-25-2009, 01:14 PM
Roughly when did JBL stop manufacuture of the S412p, out of interest?

Cliff
05-25-2009, 02:11 PM
I bought my pair from J & R Music World heavily discounted in 2005 I think so I guess production had stopped by then.

oznob
05-25-2009, 03:29 PM
The amp in one of my S412PIIs was just in two factory authorized JBL shops and neither could repair it. The most recent one said that the original parts that were damaged were lead based and could not be exactly replaced. The replacement parts that were installed do not seem to work as there is no bass output. Do you think its possible to use a third party sub woofer amp (outboard) and if so, what specs should the amp have so that it is somewhat compatible. I contacted JBL and they confirmed that there are no amps available. Its a shame because the system is truly awesome and I would hate to not having it perform up to its capability.

http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Owner%27s%20Manual/S412P%20STUDIO%20SERIES%20om.pdf

You could maybe use a subwoofer plate amp, probably class D, to substitute for the originals. According to the owners manual, the stock amp was rated at 200 watts, I assume @ 8 ohms. It may be tricky hooking it up to the crossovers. You may be able to modifiy the cabinet to accept the amp? It can probably be done but would likely be a challenge.

Good luck!

oznob
05-25-2009, 03:35 PM
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=360&products_id=368

Here's a subwoofer amp offered by Madisound that may work especially considering the adjustable crossover and volume control. There are plenty others out there.

Rusnzha
05-25-2009, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by oznob

It can probably be done but would likely be a challenge.

The first challenge is figuring the impedance of the woofer. This information is nowhere to be found.

Ralph856
05-25-2009, 10:26 PM
I bought my pair from J & R Music World heavily discounted in 2005 I think so I guess production had stopped by then.

Only 4 yrs ago. Someone's avin a larf, mate. :(

oznob
05-25-2009, 10:29 PM
Originally posted by oznob


The first challenge is figuring the impedance of the woofer. This information is nowhere to be found.

http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Technical%20Sheet/S312%20STUDIO%20SERIES%20ts.pdf

According to JBL Customer Support, the S412P uses the same woofer as the S312, part #335151-001. According to the tech sheet for the 312, the woofer measures 5.6 ohms, give or take a few.

ka7niq
05-27-2009, 12:46 PM
Those PolyPlas® drivers are in lots of enclosures, so I bet there's a compatible replacement out there with a slightly different number. The gold ones have different numbers than the copper ones, which have different numbers than the silver ones, which have different numbers than the black ones. There might be some minor cosmetic or frame differences, but I could drop the 8" woofer from my E50 into an S38 or S38II and you'd never hear the difference.

The one thing that really has changed is the tweeter. There's no swapping there, but there are non-OEM units at some of the supply houses from time to time.
In a recent conversation with Greg Timbers of JBL, I was told the copper and silver colored S Series Drivers are identical :applaud:
With the grilles on, who will know ?

4313B
05-27-2009, 01:16 PM
In a recent conversation with Greg TimbersYeah I know... he reiterated the fact that this forum has become a real problem and that he really doesn't have time to participate. Not via PM, email or phone calls...

That's about as diplomatic as I can put it.

ka7niq
05-27-2009, 01:33 PM
Yeah I know... he reiterated the fact that this forum has become a real problem and that he really doesn't have time to participate. Not via PM, email or phone calls...

That's about as diplomatic as I can put it.
Yep :(
I was suprised that BOTH Greg and I own Quicksilver Tube Amps :)
We both agreed the JBL L7 has a heroic woofer, and he told me how he WISHED he could have used that quality driver in the S412P's, but cost constraints would not allow it!
He told me of the Array speaker, gives me something to "save up for" one day ??
And, I emailed him This http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/speakers/messages/28/283520.html
And praised him for a speaker I really like a lot! :)

BMWCCA
05-27-2009, 02:32 PM
That's about as diplomatic as I can put it.I think the point perhaps being missed here is that it's an imposition to assume that just because you know Greg's name and where he works, he has the time to handle personal inquiries or listen to and comment on anecdotal experiences. That he graciously handled the contact is a testimony to the gentleman's character. That someone actually made such a call is amazing to me. :blink:

I, for one, appreciate what Mr. Timbers and others have already contributed to this site, this group of members, and this hobby and I hope everyone else has the common sense not to make them regret it. :thmbsup:

I know, wishful thinking in this FaceBook world! :(

ka7niq
05-27-2009, 03:32 PM
I think the point perhaps being missed here is that it's an imposition to assume that just because you know Greg's name and where he works, he has the time to handle personal inquiries or listen to and comment on anecdotal experiences. That he graciously handled the contact is a testimony to the gentleman's character. That someone actually made such a call is amazing to me. :blink:

I, for one, appreciate what Mr. Timbers and others have already contributed to this site, this group of members, and this hobby and I hope everyone else has the common sense not to make them regret it. :thmbsup:

I know, wishful thinking in this FaceBook world! :(
I fail to understand how calling Greg Timbers is an "imposition" ?
I am not a speaker engineer, but I am an expert in MY field.
http://roof-cleaning-institute.activeboard.com/
I DEPEND on feedback from several people using cleaning technology I developed, good and BAD.
I have spoken with Floyd Tool, Sean Olive, Alan Deventier, Richard Vandersteen, Albert Von Schweikert, Bill Watkins, Jim Thiel, Laurie Fincham, John Bowers, Ivor Tiefenbraun, Jim Rogers, Roy Delgado, Paul Klipsch, Jim Hunter, and many other engineers associated with sound reproduction over the years.
MOST engineers are capable of talking HONESTLY about flaws in their designs.
This is because MOST engineers are objective :applaud:
But, when you get on a forum like this and DARE to suggest a design is flawed, WATCH OUT!
I really enjoyed my conversations with Greg, and found he too hears some problems in designs we have BOTH listened to.

I was and am MOST Impressed with the S412P, told Greg so, asked for a schematic to put better capacitors in it, and ASKED him WHAT new JBL product I should consider to BEAT it ?
The New JBL Array was suggested.

Harman International, owner of JBL, wants to sell speakers.
I BET if you asked Harman International if it was "OK" to call an engineer for a speaker suggestion, they would give a BIG "OK" ?

Your :point: is noted, but shall be totally IGNORED :bouncy:

UNDERSTAND ???

Just so we are CLEAR on this, i will call ANY engineer I want, whenever I choose ;)
Especially when i have NOTHING but praise for something they designed.

Gee, last time I LOOKED, complimenting someone was not against the Law.

ka7niq
05-27-2009, 03:45 PM
Yeah I know... he reiterated the fact that this forum has become a real problem and that he really doesn't have time to participate. Not via PM, email or phone calls...

That's about as diplomatic as I can put it.
JUST FYI, I STARTED with JBL Customer service for a schematic for my speakers.
I was TOLD that Greg Timbers DID the S412P's, and it was SUGGESTED I contact him BY Customer Service.
I was even TOLD he would not be in until AFTER Memorial Day, and to call back then.
IF you read my comments on Audio Asylum Link posted in this thread, I say I planned to call him after Memorial Day ?

JBL POSTS it's Engineers ON their website, have a look ? http://www.jbl.com/home/technology.aspx?Language=ENG&Country=US&Region=USA
It is NOT "against the law" to call them !
WHY would YOU try to prevent a JBL Customer from getting information about their speakers ?

boputnam
05-27-2009, 05:22 PM
...i will call ANY engineer I want, whenever I choose ;)OK, cool.

Let's move on, er, or back, or somewhere...

LowPhreak
05-27-2009, 06:46 PM
Hey, I've spoken with A.J. van den Hul, but he didn't give up the secret to his magic cartridges. ;)


http://www.vandenhul.com/UserFiles/Image/Phono%20Cartridges/black-bS.jpg

MikeBrewster77
05-27-2009, 07:00 PM
Yeah, I had a nice phone conversation with Thomas Edison once - in fact Alexander Graham Bell patched through the call himself. Edison had a bit of a hard time hearing on the other line, but it was an interesting discussion about the merits of cylinders vs. discs for sound reproduction, and how the whole damned modern world was too focused on convenience to appreciate good sound.

Then again, I was tripping on acid, and I think Edison was drunk, so it wasn't the most productive conversation in the world :screwy:. But seriously, you could really tell he was extremely glad to hear from me... :rolleyes:

ka7niq
05-27-2009, 08:10 PM
Hey, I've spoken with A.J. van den Hul, but he didn't give up the secret to his magic cartridges. ;)


http://www.vandenhul.com/UserFiles/Image/Phono%20Cartridges/black-bS.jpg
LOL, neither did Yaki Mura ever reveal how he eats all that Soy Sauce w/o raising his Blood Pressure :banghead:

LowPhreak
05-27-2009, 08:11 PM
Yeah, I had a nice phone conversation with Thomas Edison once - ...

:D

ka7niq
05-27-2009, 08:26 PM
For THOSE interested, here is the JBL S412P measurements.
I obtained THESE from Sean Olive at Infinity.
Pretty NICE, huh ?

39540

Here is the Crossover PDF Greg Timbers sent me below.


39541

ka7niq
05-27-2009, 08:39 PM
For THOSE interested, here is the JBL S412P measurements.
I obtained THESE from Sean Olive at Infinity.
Pretty NICE, huh ?

39540

Here is the Crossover PDF Greg Timbers sent me below.


39541
OH, the "dip" at 100hz is a measurement error.

Sean Olive at Harman has access to several speakers that Infinity/JBL Measured over the years.
I have seen a few of these measurements
SOME "well regarded" speakers are REALLY Bad, as far as measurements go :barf:

boputnam
05-27-2009, 09:45 PM
Hey, I've spoken with A.J. van den Hul, but he didn't give up the secret to his magic cartridges. ;)


I'm a member of the Des Moines Dry Cleaning Institute...


I had a nice phone conversation with Thomas Edison once - in fact Alexander Graham Bell patched through the call himself.

I seriously love you guys... :o:

BMWCCA
05-27-2009, 10:34 PM
SOME "well regarded" speakers are REALLY Bad, as far as measurements go And sometimes when it works the only answer is "PFM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PF_Magic)".

;)

ka7niq
05-27-2009, 10:49 PM
And sometimes when it works the only answer is "PFM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PF_Magic)".

;)
Good point!
Some manufacturers are willing to accept serious deviatons from accuracy for the last little bit of efficiency.
I am trying not to "name drop" here, but PWK once told me when I was a Kid that efficiency/low distortion was everything.

Another good analogy is the ongoing debate between a Quad antenna and a Yagi among Hams.
It has been the experience of several Hams (myself included), that a Quad will outperform a Yagi far more then measurements alone would indicate.

BMWCCA
05-27-2009, 11:08 PM
I am trying not to "name drop" here, but PWK once told me when I was a Kid that efficiency/low distortion was everything.Was that before or after he pulled down the screen behind his desk on which it was written in large Olde English letters: "Bullsh*t" ?

I've still got my yellow button.

;)

4313B
05-28-2009, 05:19 AM
Uh, dood, please stop.

Here, it is not who you CAN contact, it is what YOU alone contribute, in a MEANINGFUL and SHARING manner. YOU set the EXAMPLE with EACH post. YOUR post IS you.

Stop name dropping. Truly, no one cares or is impressed. It means nothing.

What matters is demeanor, and camaraderie. Share, learn and enjoy and if offended for some reason, rise above it and set a higher standard. THAT would BE hella COOL.

Oh, and, stop the damned SHOUTING.

You have received an infraction. Please consider our advice.

Thanks.
Guys... this :screwy:was banned for a week and now he's back like a bad haircut. I'd suggest simply putting him on ignore. I suspect he has about as much going on as a bag of hammers and he'll eventually work himself into a permanent ban. He is a perfect example of all that is wrong with Internet forums and specifically what this particular website tries to avoid.

hjames
05-28-2009, 05:27 AM
Guys... this :screwy:was banned for a week and now he's back like a bad haircut. I'd suggest simply putting him on ignore. I suspect he has about as much going on as a bag of hammers and he'll eventually work himself into a permanent ban. He is a perfect example of all that is wrong with Internet forums and specifically what this particular website tries to avoid.

Thank you!

LowPhreak
05-28-2009, 08:24 AM
Guys... this :screwy:was banned for a week and now he's back like a bad haircut.

My old man used to say: "You know the difference between a bad haircut and a good one?"

:confused:

"About 2 weeks!" (Haha.)

However...it doesn't apply in this case! :bash: ;)

JBLAddict
05-29-2009, 04:18 PM
Thank you!

no ban, no ban, no ban....pretty pls....this is the most entertainment I've had all week......

4313B
05-29-2009, 05:13 PM
no ban, no ban, no ban....pretty pls....this is the most entertainment I've had all week......I guess he should have joined the off-topic forum and kept it in there then... :dont-know

Crashing the party on a Google, disrespecting the host, groping the help, spilling the beer and breaking the furniture isn't appreciated. I honestly don't think a ban is unreasonable. Not here. There are forums designed for that kind of behavior. Let's be proud of this website and its caliber instead of ashamed of it. I really don't know what else to say besides let's try to stay on topic?

atulg7
08-01-2009, 10:14 PM
Hi, how are u? I came across ur posts at the forum. I appreciate ur knowledge of the loudspeakers. I also own a pair of JBL S412's. Bought them new 5 years back and are performing like a HURRICANE since day 1. Just luv'em. I have been using them as Stereo Speakers with a sub added. Fired by the Yamaha RXV1400. Now, I wish to use them in my 5.1 / 6.1 HT System.
Please tell me what center and surround speaker set would sound best with these?
Here in India, I may not get old stuff. Although, all current range of Brand New JBL et al is available.
Please help me choose what would compement my already mind blowing S412's.
Shall appreciate ur help. You can even contact me at atulg7@hotmail.com.

Regards,
Atul Goel
India.








I picked up a pair of these "forgotten" older JBL Flagships a few days ago locally.
The were the Flagship of the older Studio or S Series.


I am VERY impressed with these speakers.
I own B&W 801's
They are my reference speaker that all speakers I buy get compared to.
MOST speakers will not stand comparasion to a well set up B&W 801, for long.
These JBL's suprised the hell out of me.
Make NO mistake, this is an Audiophiles Speaker in every way.
The wide baffle gives a big warm sound, with authority in the lower midrange.
No thin sound here, even 4 feet out from the back wall!
Not QUITE as 3 dimensional as the B&W 801's, but imaging is very good, and the overall sound is big and majestic.
This JBL metal tweeter is devoid of harshness, unlike the Titanium POS Tweeter used in the JBL L7's I used to own.
THAT tweeter had phase distortion problems you could HEAR :(
Very FEW tweeters can match the B&W Tweeter, or even come close.
This tweeter is sweet, shockingly detailed, and smooth.
It lacks a LITTLE "air" compared to the 801 tweeter, but it is very close.
I feel the JBL S412P's biggest strength is reproduction of timbre.
It just sounds like Music.
Like the 801, and VERY few other speakers, it has that oh so elusive elusive ability to sound "real" at times.
Whoever voiced this speaker KNEW what music sounds like, and it is oh so evident the more you listen to this masterpiece.
Guitar Solo's, Hand Claps, and Saxaphones have had me shaking my head in utter disbelief.
HTF can JBL do this ?
Voices have just a TOUCH of extra warmth compared to the 801's.
Female voice is wonderfully reproduced.
Take for example the Band Till Tuesday ?
Remember them ?
They do that song "Hush Hush, voices carry"
That is a BITCH to get right.
The Big JBL's are up to the task.
Joan Osborne singing "What If God Was One Of Us" will give you goosebumps.
Not only is she reproduced warm and romantically, but the guitar solo is clear outside and 5 feet back behind the left speaker.
Sara McLaughlin is well done, as are every female vocalist I have tried.
Even Patty Smythe singing "I am the Warrior" is "listenable".
Quarter Flash singing "Gonna Harden My Heart" will make hair stand up on your arms when the Saxaphone Solo comes in.
The Sax is convincingly rendered in that song.
The intentional guitar "fuzzbox" distortion in Black Sabbath's Paranoid must be heard to be believed.
Bass on these is ok, not particulary deep, maybe down to 35 or so ?
But what is there is fast and tight, with decent impact.
I have 25 CD's I use for speaker evaluation.
MOST speakers can't get through the first 5 CD's before i hear problems compared to the 801's.
I am happy to report that the JBL S412 passed ALL 25 CD's with FLYING colors vs the B&W 801's.

A MOST impressive acheivement JBL !!!!


I plan a more thorough review for these speakers, but I just wanted to share my excitement for them.
These speakers are 10 years old, but can be found used in good condition if you look.
HOW these ever "escaped" the Audiophile Press is beyond me ?
JBL's sister company Infinity was getting ALL the "attention" back when these were made.

Perhaps we passed these up because we thought they were just "Home Theatre Speakers" ??
And Mass Produced JBL's sold at Best Buy CAN'T be "Any Good" right ?
WRONG WRONG - Oh So very incorrect Guys !

SEVERAL pairs of well known "Audiophile Approved Speakers" have come and gone through my home over the years.
"Fallen Victims" of the B&W 801's that exposed them for the "Pretenders" they really were.
I am happy to report the JBL S412p's have not only survived direct comparasion to the 801's, but have done so with flying colors.

I plan on calling JBL after Memorial Day and FIND the Engineer responsible for the design of these speakers, IF he is still there ?

Just to let him know SOMEONE appreciates his considerable accomplishment.

LowPhreak
08-02-2009, 05:09 AM
"Ur" was a city in ancient Mesopotamia. :idea: