2214H tech sheet?

[pierce]

I have been unable to locate any sort of technical data sheet on the 2214H 12" woofer as used in the L100T(3), 4425, and I dunno how many other configurations since the mid 80s. I've browsed the stuff on jbl/harman's pages, and I've browsed the stuff in both the Library and the Tech Ref sections here (and, boy, sure would be nice if these were somehow better integrated and indexed!).

I would think this would be a good addition to the tech library sections here?

[Robh3606]

That's becasue there isn't one. They typically only do a tech sheet on a driver that is sold seperately. The T/S for that driver is available in the Reference Section of the Library.

Rob:)

[pierce]

ah. yet they made 2214H woofers for quite a long time, something like 1985 til a few years ago (at least, there is no trace of them in the 2008 catalogs, but the 4425 that uses it is in the 2003 catalog).

I suppose there's no master cross reference table that lists what components are in what speakers? Like, I've not been able to determine just what the woofer in the 4412 is, I -thought- it was a 2214H but I've been told its not, and none of the 4412/10/08 data sheets I've found seem to say just what model drivers they use.. Edit: confirmed on another thread, teh 4412A are 128H


ah, well. Here's the 2214H's T/S parameters at least, and the 128H-1 used on the 4412(A)



|.. . .| 2214H | 128H | units . .|
| fs . | 23 . .| 20 . | Hz . . . |
| Qts .| .24 . | .24 .| . . . . .|
| Qms .| 10.5 .| 7.0 .| . . . . .|
| Qes .| .25 . | .25 .| . . . . .|
| Vas .| 7.9 . | 9.9 .| ft^3 . . |
| Eff .| 1.1 . | .86 .| % . . . .|
| Pe . | 200 . | 100 .| watts . .|
| Xmax | .26 . | .31 .| inch . . |
| VD . | 21 . .| 25 . | in^3 . . |
| Re . | 5.6 . | 5.7 .| ohms . . |
| Le . | 1.3 . | 0.6 .| mH . . . |
| SD . | 81.7 .| 81.7 | in^2 . . |
| Dia .| 10.2 .| 10.2 | in . . . |
| Bl . | 16.0 .| 16.0 | Newt/Amp |
| Mms .| 90 . .| 70 . | grams . .|
| flux | 1.07__| 1.07 | tesla____|

[Robh3606]

I suppose there's no master cross reference table that lists what components are in what speakers?

In the older catalogs when they still sold individual drivers in the components series they had a cross-reference table that showed what driver went where. The closest to that are the Family tables on the JBL Pro site. Those can be quite useful.

You just have to learn how to wade through all this stuff. There is quite a bit of information on the JBL Pro Site.

Rob:)

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=19926

http://www.jblproservice.com/navigation/Systems%20Ref%20Charts.html

[hjames]

I have been unable to locate any sort of technical data sheet on the 2214H 12" woofer as used in the L100T(3), 4425, and I dunno how many other configurations since the mid 80s. I've browsed the stuff on jbl/harman's pages, and I've browsed the stuff in both the Library and the Tech Ref sections here (and, boy, sure would be nice if these were somehow better integrated and indexed!).

I would think this would be a good addition to the tech library sections here?

I took pictures when I pulled down my new-to-me L100Ts recently to redo the surround on the woofer.

top is a side-rear view of the 2214H speaker before I reworked it ...
(the parts on the coffee table behind it are for other projects).

Below that is the pair of them just after replacing the foam with the 30 Hz tone setup ...

If you need more pix, let me know - I'll open them up again in a few weeks when I reinstall the crossovers (being upgraded to T3 spec)

[4313B]

The closest to that are the Family tables on the JBL Pro site.Someday I'll have to finish up the Consumer version. There's a bunch missing that I have in other, very old Quattro Pro files that I probably can't even access anymore unless I can find some install floppies from the late 80's. I think my wife threw my millions of dollars of old worthless software and their plethora of updates away a year or two ago. :rotfl:

[4313B]

I would think this would be a good addition to the tech library sections here?We were going to build a master database a few years back with the tons of data I have as well as what we can remember (Mark, Greg, David, myself, etc.) but Don and I lost interest fairly early on. Don hasn't screwed around with the Library since 2004 due to broken software. Oh well... :dont-know I think a wee bit of hate mail went a long way towards killing the passion, at least publicly.

[Robh3606]

Nice list!

We should put that in the Reference Section so it doesn't get burried in this thread and lost.



Don hasn't screwed around with the Library since 2004 due to broken software. Oh well... :dont-know

Well at least we can enter new material into the Library Annex.



Rob:)

[4313B]

Nice list!

We should put that in the Reference Section so it doesn't get burried in this thread and lost.

Rob:)It's nicer when compiled into a database though where queries can be run. I have something like forty or fifty spreadsheets that I need to merge into one. And then I have to actually check every single entry for accuracy and I get real bored doing that after, oh about 30 seconds.

[Robh3606]

It's nicer when compiled into a database though where queries can be run.

Your right but when's that going to happen?? We might as well put up what we have available to us. That spreadsheet is a big help and it certainly is a lot better than nothing.

Rob:)

[DavidF]

"...- it was a 2214H but I've been told its not, and none of the 4412/10/08 data sheets I've found seem to say just what model drivers they use.. Edit: confirmed on another thread, teh 4412A are 128H..."

The 128H-1 was the model used. The 128H is similar but not close enough to freely interchange. There is some discussion on the differences around here, somewhere.

What narrow shady road are stopped on in your avalar? Wondering if I too have been there.

[pierce]

The 128H-1 was the model used. The 128H is similar but not close enough to freely interchange. There is some discussion on the differences around here, somewhere.

What narrow shady road are stopped on in your avalar? Wondering if I too have been there.

Another thread indicated, the 128H was white coned, while the 128H-1 is black, otherwise acoustically and mechanically identical.

re: Avatar... That's a back road near Scotts Valley, California by the name of Bean Creek Rd..

oh, and HJames... I've got a pair of 2214H in my L100T, they are being repaired as we type this... This all started because I was trying to figure out just what other speakers used these, so far all I can confirm are the LxxT(3) series, the 4425, XPL200A, and possibly some subwoofers. The other speakers that I *thought* may have had 2214H in fact have 128H(-1), such as 4412(A), various others.

[pierce]

... Here's the 2214H's T/S parameters at least, and the 128H-1 used on the 4412(A)


|.. . .| 2214H | 128H | units . .|
| fs . | 23 . .| 20 . | Hz . . . |
| Qts .| .24 . | .24 .| . . . . .|
| Qms .| 10.5 .| 7.0 .| . . . . .|
| Qes .| .25 . | .25 .| . . . . .|
| Vas .| 7.9 . | 9.9 .| ft^3 . . |
| Eff .| 1.1 . | .86 .| % . . . .|
| Pe . | 200 . | 100 .| watts . .|
| Xmax | .26 . | .31 .| inch . . |
| VD . | 21 . .| 25 . | in^3 . . |
| Re . | 5.6 . | 5.7 .| ohms . . |
| Le . | 1.3 . | 0.6 .| mH . . . |
| SD . | 81.7 .| 81.7 | in^2 . . |
| Dia .| 10.2 .| 10.2 | in . . . |
| Bl . | 16.0 .| 16.0 | Newt/Amp |
| Mms .| 90 . .| 70 . | grams . .|
| flux | 1.07__| 1.07 | tesla____|


so. attempting to (mis)interpret this data, based on my rudimentary understanding of acoustics and physics (and almost total unfamiliarity with T/S parameters).



both speakers have the same flux density, same cone size, almost identical coil resistance, identical electrical and total Q factors (dampening?)




the 128H has somewhat longer excursion, and a slightly lower resonance frequency, yet a lower moving mass (these last two seem contradictory without other data). the longer excursion means it can move somewhat more air. lower mechanical Q means (I think) it dampens out faster.




the 2214H can handle much higher power, has twice the inductance voice coil (likely more turns of a heavier gauge, which also accounts for the higher mass?), and somewhat higher efficiency.


I think the sum total of all this is that the 128H(-1) is likely a little better woofer for very low frequencies, but the 2214H's increased power handling means it likely can play LOUDER. and, they are close enough that you can probably substitute the 2214h for a 128H and not miss much, although the doubled mH inductance may require the crossover to be tweaked some.

[4313B]

they are close enough that you can probably substitute the 2214h for a 128H and not miss much, although the doubled mH inductance may require the crossover to be tweaked some.These kinds of suppositions probably belong in DIY instead of Technical Help. I'm highly confident that Greg would never endorse substituting 128H's with 2214H's, and vice versa, in his system designs.
Another thread indicated, the 128H was white coned, while the 128H-1 is black, otherwise acoustically and mechanically identical.1985 was the last time I discussed the differences with the designer and I believe he said that he tightened up the suspension a bit in the 128H-1 in addition to changing to dark aquaplas so as to look better in the 120Ti.

[pierce]

I meant to state that previous more as a question, asking for confirmation or correction of my hypothesis, sorry.:o:

[DavidF]

so. attempting to (mis)interpret this data, based on my rudimentary understanding of acoustics and physics (and almost total unfamiliarity with T/S parameters).



both speakers have the same flux density, same cone size, almost identical coil resistance, identical electrical and total Q factors (dampening?)


the 128H has somewhat longer excursion, and a slightly lower resonance frequency, yet a lower moving mass (these last two seem contradictory without other data). the longer excursion means it can move somewhat more air. lower mechanical Q means (I think) it dampens out faster.


the 2214H can handle much higher power, has twice the inductance voice coil (likely more turns of a heavier gauge, which also accounts for the higher mass?), and somewhat higher efficiency.
I think the sum total of all this is that the 128H(-1) is likely a little better woofer for very low frequencies, but the 2214H's increased power handling means it likely can play LOUDER. and, they are close enough that you can probably substitute the 2214h for a 128H and not miss much, although the doubled mH inductance may require the crossover to be tweaked some.

Your thoughts seem to go to application in the end. The 2214H works better in a larger box and is a little more sensitive. The 128H works where you may need a smaller box. The cone profile is quite different for each. I have not seen a response curve for the 2214 but the upper end of response range is likely quite different from the 128H. If you are comparing the two models for similar applications I think upper end is where the work will be to get similar results.

Yep, I have been down Bean Creek. Not for a while, though. Very nice area coming down into the town.

[pierce]

my interest is purely academic at the present. I have a pair of 2214H that will be going back into my pair of L100T as soon as I get them back.

[TonyM]

Is there any relationship between the 2214 and the woofer used in the Urei 809? The reason I ask is because the depth of the frame seems a little unusual for a 12" driver.

[Robh3606]

Is there any relationship between the 2214 and the woofer used in the Urei 809?

I would hazared to quess they are the same beast. Think of a coaxial 4425. The basket and cone sure look the same. They used an E145 frame for the 15" driver so it's no to far fetched of an idea.

Rob:)

[duaneage]

The 2214H has a heavier, deeper cone than the 128H although both seem to have the same motor structure. Think of them as cousins rather than brothers.

I've built quite a few systems with both drivers. I prefer the 128H because it works so well in 1.6 cu feet of air. I've made several systems with dual 2214H drivers. Having two gets you a lower F3 and tremendous output. Not a really deep subwoofer but it moves a lot of air.

The L100T has what can best be described as a non-flat response due to the very large enclosure relative to the 4425. You get deeper bass but it's not as clean as it could be. I prefer the sound of the 2214H in a smaller enclosure and let the room boundaries bring up the bottom end.