3 way Altec 19's

[sbjacob]

I always liked the look of the Altec 19's so I decided to build a pair of speakers similar in look but 3 way using Altec 806-8a drivers along with Eminence supertweeters and Klipsch K-33 woofers with a modified Klipsch type A crossover.I will add another bass bin under each so I will be running 2 15" on each. Crossed over at 500 Hz and 5500 Hz.I have yet to finish the rest of the cabinets I hope to do it next week.39132

[MikeBrewster77]

Nice job - they sure do look purdy. :applaud:

Have you had a chance to fire them up and give them a listen?

Best,
- Mike

[sbjacob]

Nice job - they sure do look purdy. :applaud:

Have you had a chance to fire them up and give them a listen?

Best,
- Mike

Sure did I have the other 2 15" in smaller boxes underneath these.The bass is awesome and blows my La scalas away in bass and midrange.I am using Hovland ,Mundorf Supremes and Clarity SA caps in my crossovers.39133

[felixx]

Nice work.I have a pair of 811 horns and I was wondering how much will improve/affect the sound if I remove that "fins" from the front of the 811 horn to gave them a nicer look.

[sbjacob]

Nice work.I have a pair of 811 horns and I was wondering how much will improve/affect the sound if I remove that "fins" from the front of the 811 horn to gave them a nicer look. I like the fins and I am not sure how removing the fins would effect the horns dispersion but I have never seen a horn that had the fins removed it might look cool?

:)

[Tom Brennan]

Nice work.I have a pair of 811 horns and I was wondering how much will improve/affect the sound if I remove that "fins" from the front of the 811 horn to gave them a nicer look.

I will give no improvement, don't waste your time. I've done it.

[sbjacob]

Nice work.I have a pair of 811 horns and I was wondering how much will improve/affect the sound if I remove that "fins" from the front of the 811 horn to gave them a nicer look. What are using for drivers on the 811's ?

[felixx]

What are using for drivers on the 811's ?

I used 806A and Fostex 925A.

[JBLRaiser]

why did you choose 500? And what are you using to power them?

[sourceoneaudio]

806A, don't think they will last to long crossed at 500? Might be an expensive mistake. >? This is a Valencia driver, and usually crossed at 800hz.

[sbjacob]

why did you choose 500? And what are you using to power them?Still experimenting on the crossover points on these as they are still in my garage as I am building another set of the same bass bins for each so I will be running 2 15" in each.I hooked up a old Sansui receiver to test them out there.I have a Crown amp and a Adcom preamp inside to run them when they are complete.

[sbjacob]

806A, don't think they will last to long crossed at 500? Might be an expensive mistake. >? This is a Valencia driver, and usually crossed at 800hz.I have talked to others that have used these drivers with no problem crossed at 500 Hz in there house system. I wouldn't use them in any commercial application at 500Hz, I have 3 pair of these 806-8a drivers so if I decide to keep the 500 Hz crossover piont and they don't work out I will get a new pair of 909's from GPA as I talked to Steve Upchurch at GPA and he had said that crossing them at 500Hz would be fine.

[sourceoneaudio]

I have talked to others that have used these drivers with no problem crossed at 500 Hz in there house system. I wouldn't use them in any commercial application at 500Hz, I have 3 pair of these 806-8a drivers so if I decide to keep the 500 Hz crossover piont and they don't work out I will get a new pair of 909's from GPA as I talked to Steve Upchurch at GPA and he had said that crossing them at 500Hz would be fine.

Regardless, I don't think they would sound that good that low. We have done a-lot of work with this driver/array/Valencia 846A/846b/Model 19 here, and I think as far as sound quality goes you might want to bring it up a tad. But that is your choice. Good luck. Cabs look nice by the way.

Here is a little reading for you.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=14690&highlight=babies

[sbjacob]

Regardless, I don't think they would sound that good that low. We have done a-lot of work with this driver/array/Valencia 846A/846b/Model 19 here, and I think as far as sound quality goes you might want to bring it up a tad. But that is your choice. Good luck. Cabs look nice by the way.

Here is a little reading for you.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=14690&highlight=babiesThanks for all the info I will go through it.I am very impressed with the sound of the Altec drivers in my projects and am looking forward to this Forum.

[JBLRaiser]

Thanks for all the info I will go through it.I am very impressed with the sound of the Altec drivers in my projects and am looking forward to this Forum.

lower points is "honking'. The horns honk like a cars horn attempting to produce lows requiring more surface area than the diaphragm has.

[sbjacob]

lower points is "honking'. The horns honk like a cars horn attempting to produce lows requiring more surface area than the diaphragm has.
I am curious about this so the 909 diaphram is the same size as the 806's and I was told by GPA that crossing the 909 at 500Hz would be fine then there must be other factors than diaphram surface area?:hmm:

[JBLRaiser]

I am curious about this so the 909 diaphram is the same size as the 806's and I was told by GPA that crossing the 909 at 500Hz would be fine then there must be other factors than diaphram surface area?:hmm:

it just "honks":D

[Zilch]

811B is a 1.2 kHz horn.

Push it lower, and increasing "horny" coloration develops.

Run it on an active crossover with adjustable highpass frequency and listen for yourself.

Similarly, 511 is only "good" down to 800 Hz.

Yes, the drivers will play there, but with acceptable sonic quality...? :dont-know

[sbjacob]

it just "honks":D
Oh sorry I thought you were saying it would damage the driver from the honking.:blink:

[sbjacob]

811B is a 1.2 kHz horn.

Push it lower, and increasing "horny" coloration develops.

Run it on an active crossover with adjustable highpass frequency and listen for yourself.

Similarly, 511 is only "good" down to 800 Hz.

Yes, the drivers will play there, but with acceptable sonic quality...? :dont-knowWow I thought it was good down to 500Hz.This is very interesting as I have seen many post showing it was good to 500Hz and some charts on ALK's web site showing that as he was a big fan of the 511B horn as a upgrade on the Klipschorn until he started building his own horns.

[Zilch]

Much like JBL's exponentials, you can track their progressive derating over time in the manufacturers' literature. Again, you can easily make your own determination by varying the highpass frequency while listening.

As others have also suggested, it's mighty hard to get at the facts regarding vintage Altec. Read the "Babies" thread as an example of what we went through getting to the bottom of Valencias.

There's nothing wrong with liking or even preferring this "Legacy" gear, but merely presuming audio engineering has been asleep at the wheel for forty or fifty years does not rationally reconcile the facts, once they are known.... :no:

[sbjacob]

Much like JBL's exponentials, you can track their progressive derating over time in the manufacturers' literature. Again, you can easily make your own determination by varying the highpass frequency while listening.

As others have also suggested, it's mighty hard to get at the facts regarding vintage Altec. Read the "Babies" thread as an example of what we went through getting to the bottom of Valencias.

There's nothing wrong with liking or even preferring this "Legacy" gear, but merely presuming audio engineering has been asleep at the wheel for forty or fifty years does not rationally reconcile the facts, once they are known.... :no:
I agree with liking "Legacy" gear however we are are memories and everyone has a memory associated with the sound of legacy gear therefore time is no longer a factor in regards to technology.

[felixx]

Zilch...what do you think about these 1" horns:
http://www2.117.ne.jp/~y-s/SS500.SS300katarog-e.html (http://www2.117.ne.jp/%7Ey-s/SS500.SS300katarog-e.html)
The responce is with TAD2001 driver into SS-500.
The crossover was into 800hz.Regarding the measurements of this horn,do you think the 800hz point is possible?
I really love that look of these horns....but too expensive for my pokets.

[Earl K]

http://www2.117.ne.jp/~y-s/images/SS-500-1-web.jpghttp://www2.117.ne.jp/~y-s/images/SS-500sunpouzu-web.jpg
http://www2.117.ne.jp/~y-s/images/SS-500syuuhasuutokusei-web.jpg

Wow ! Stunningly Beautiful ! Those are a great looking horns .
I love the native "Asada" cherry wood ( from Hokkaido no less ) !
( SS-500 is pictured above )

Thanks for the link felixx !

>< cheers :)

ps ; & the SS-300 pics are below

http://www2.117.ne.jp/~y-s/images/SS-300-2-web.jpghttp://www2.117.ne.jp/~y-s/images/SS-300-side-web.jpg
http://www2.117.ne.jp/~y-s/images/SS-300frequency%20responce-web.jpghttp://www2.117.ne.jp/~y-s/images/SS-300sunpouzu-web.jpg

[originaltubino]

Lovely to look upon, heaven to touch,
It's a real shame they got to COST SO MUCH.

300,000 yen = over $3000 USD

I posted this link on the Facebook group I just created, called Wood Horns for Audio! (http://www.facebook.com/posted.php?id=78029088172&success#/group.php?gid=78029088172)

[sbjacob]

Still experimenting on the crossover points on these as they are still in my garage as I am building another set of the same bass bins for each so I will be running 2 15" in each.I hooked up a old Sansui receiver to test them out there.I have a Crown amp and a Adcom preamp inside to run them when they are complete.
Second set of bass bins done need to do finishing work and then they go into the house.39365

[sbjacob]

Second set of bass bins done need to do finishing work and then they go into the house.39365

Crossovers done 40306

[Doc Mark]

Hey, SBJacob,

I am not an audio engineer, nor have I ever been one. But, I was a professional musician for almost 30 years, and so have more than a little experience with how JBL and Altec goodies sound in various applications. Back in the day, I heard many Altec systems crossed over at 500 HZ. They sounded good to me.... UNTIL I heard those same systems crossed over at 800 HZ, and even 1,200 HZ! The clarity of sound, and the lack of coloration was very apparent, and much more to my liking!

As for JBL stuff, I own two 2405H slot tweeters, which I got from our old keyboard player. He sold off all his stuff when he got out of the business, and I ended up with a good bit of it, being his room mate for many years whilst we were on the road. But, when he used the 2405H's, he crossed them over at 7,000 HZ, using a JBL crossover. Yes, "in those days", JBL recommended crossing that tweeter over at 7KHZ. But, I'll tell you something, back then, I HATED the sound of that tweeter!!! It was spitty, hissy, and hurt my ears tremendously!!! I only bought the ones he had, because they came in a complete system. Had he offered them to me separately, I would have walked on by and not been interested!! Fast forward a few years, and guess what? I heard those same tweeters crossed over at 8.5 KHZ, and then at 10 KHZ, and they sounded simply amazing!! I loved their silky, smooth sound, and the only thing that had changed was the crossover frequency!! So, yes, they did "work" at the lower frequency, but they sounded much better crossed over a bit higher.

For what it's worth, your system should sound much better if you raise the crossover frequency of your horns and CD's. The Altec horns will like it better, and will sound better, and so will your Altec compression drivers. I've been there, I heard that, and I'm betting you will too. Again, I'm not a pro engineer, just a former musician, so my opinion may only be worth what you have paid to read it. But, there it is.... Take care, have fun, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[sbjacob]

Hey, SBJacob,

I am not an audio engineer, nor have I ever been one. But, I was a professional musician for almost 30 years, and so have more than a little experience with how JBL and Altec goodies sound in various applications. Back in the day, I heard many Altec systems crossed over at 500 HZ. They sounded good to me.... UNTIL I heard those same systems crossed over at 800 HZ, and even 1,200 HZ! The clarity of sound, and the lack of coloration was very apparent, and much more to my liking!

As for JBL stuff, I own two 2405H slot tweeters, which I got from our old keyboard player. He sold off all his stuff when he got out of the business, and I ended up with a good bit of it, being his room mate for many years whilst we were on the road. But, when he used the 2405H's, he crossed them over at 7,000 HZ, using a JBL crossover. Yes, "in those days", JBL recommended crossing that tweeter over at 7KHZ. But, I'll tell you something, back then, I HATED the sound of that tweeter!!! It was spitty, hissy, and hurt my ears tremendously!!! I only bought the ones he had, because they came in a complete system. Had he offered them to me separately, I would have walked on by and not been interested!! Fast forward a few years, and guess what? I heard those same tweeters crossed over at 8.5 KHZ, and then at 10 KHZ, and they sounded simply amazing!! I loved their silky, smooth sound, and the only thing that had changed was the crossover frequency!! So, yes, they did "work" at the lower frequency, but they sounded much better crossed over a bit higher.

For what it's worth, your system should sound much better if you raise the crossover frequency of your horns and CD's. The Altec horns will like it better, and will sound better, and so will your Altec compression drivers. I've been there, I heard that, and I'm betting you will too. Again, I'm not a pro engineer, just a former musician, so my opinion may only be worth what you have paid to read it. But, there it is.... Take care, have fun, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish
Doc
After comparing the crossover points I crossed them at 700 and 9000 and you are correct they sound much better as I was told when I first posted them by another member. Thanks much