LE10H-1 surrounds

[infinityQ2]

Is it true that the surrounds are originally attached to the back of the cone??
I just had mine done at a local "Authorized" JBL service center and they attached them to the front. Just bought them so I did not know. Is there any ill effect to be expected??? never mind glue stains all over the cone. This place has really gone to the toilet. I don't want to mention the name untill I can confirm....:banghead:

[Fred Sanford]

Is it true that the surrounds are originally attached to the back of the cone??
I just had mine done at a local "Authorized" JBL service center and they attached them to the front. Just bought them so I did not know. Is there any ill effect to be expected??? never mind glue stains all over the cone. This place has really gone to the toilet. I don't want to mention the name untill I can confirm....:banghead:

Yes, the originals were to the back of the cone. I'd be :banghead:, too. Then I'd be at their service counter, like this: :biting: :bs: :wtf: :bash: :argue:.

je

[4313B]

That's a bummer. I think Service Centers should probably notify the customer if they are going to modify the physical appearance of a transducer.

And glue all over a cone isn't cool at all.

[infinityQ2]

Yes, the originals were to the back of the cone. I'd be :banghead:, too. Then I'd be at their service counter, like this: :biting: :bs: :wtf: :bash: :argue:.

je

It's called NewEngland Speaker in Stoneham Mass. The Tech that used to do repairs for 20yrs or so recently passed away, He did great work. He replaced the surrounds on my L110s about 18yrs ago, attaching them to the back,and they are still fine today. They have a new tech that well I just don't know. He replaced the surrounds on my L65 woofers and glue is visable almost 3/4" below the surround not even uniformly. The bead around the cap must be 1/2" wide and far from even. I mentioned this to the owner and asked if the tech could be a little neater, his response,"he's gonna do what he's gonna do. What a rotten frickin attitude. I would have let loose right there but he is the only gig in town. What a frickin shame. Granted they only charge $35 per surround, Butttttttttttttttt. So besides appearence, having the surround on the front, any prolems?? They seem to sound fine...:blink:

[pioneer]

It's called NewEngland Speaker in Stoneham Mass. The Tech that used to do repairs for 20yrs or so recently passed away, He did great work. He replaced the surrounds on my L110s about 18yrs ago, attaching them to the back,and they are still fine today. They have a new tech that well I just don't know. He replaced the surrounds on my L65 woofers and glue is visable almost 3/4" below the surround not even uniformly. The bead around the cap must be 1/2" wide and far from even. I mentioned this to the owner and asked if the tech could be a little neater, his response,"he's gonna do what he's gonna do. What a rotten frickin attitude. I would have let loose right there but he is the only gig in town. What a frickin shame. Granted they only charge $35 per surround, Butttttttttttttttt. So besides appearence, having the surround on the front, any prolems?? They seem to sound fine...:blink:

There are other "gigs" in town. I use Pro Sound Services in Braintree Ma and they do a great job and are very easy to talk to with no attitude. I just brought a pair of 2231 in to be checked out they needed new dust caps, the first thing the tech said was the recone must have been done at Stoneham (and they were by the previous owner)as they were a mess. Also out in Springfield Ma a member here either owns a JBL shop or works at on he goes by Pelly3s you can try him I understand he does good work also.

[badman]

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=24762

Link is some notes on front/back surround mounting. From a performance perspective, the mounting of the foam isn't a huge deal. With a klippel test you could determine the better way to mount it. This would require two drivers, identical, one with the surround on top and one on bottom, though You couldn't determine this just by looking at a cone terminated one way unless you knew the behavior of the surround in a pretty detailed fashion. In any case, the bulk of the restoring force is provided by the spider. The surround is meant to allow relatively free excursion, where the centering and overexcursion prevention is determined in the vast majority by the spider.

Naturally, though, it would be nice to have kept the look stock, and the glue is a problem in itself, adding a little mass and selective damping. I'd demand a refund, and make a big stink with these jerks, for making a mess of your driver.

[4313B]

So besides appearence, having the surround on the front, any prolems??Drivers that originally had the surround mounted on the rear of the cone had the offset optimized for rear mounting. Drivers that originally had the surround mounted on the front of the cone had the offset optimized for front mounting. Any deviation from this can result in incorrect software/hardware offset. - JBL
They seem to sound fine...:blink:For the record, most consumers probably wouldn't know any better one way or another and that's probably a good thing. JBL does things that, taken together, optimize a specific driver for it's intended application. Whether or not an end user wants to attempt to retain performance as close to originally intended as possible is their own choice. That's why the choice of aftermarket recone kits as well as refoam kits exists.

Interesting tidbit: JBL has an entire room devoted to the storage of their "engineering specification" loudspeaker systems. Many of the low frequency transducers in those systems have suffered foam rot over the years rendering the transducers unusable. Will JBL repair them? "No, they can't be repaired. It is virtually impossible to restore them to engineering standard specification."

The rest of us just recone or refoam our drivers and go on our merry way. :yes:

[Krunchy]

The rest of us just recone or refoam our drivers and go on our merry way. :yes:

And on that note infinityQ2, you may want to look at Bo's fine thread on the subject.

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=469

Its virtues so fine, it is both the cause of great joy & the reason for my JBL affliction. After reading it and re-reading it I refoamed my first driver & was hooked.


It's called NewEngland Speaker in Stoneham Mass. The Tech that used to do repairs for 20yrs or so recently passed away, He did great work. He replaced the surrounds on my L110s about 18yrs ago, attaching them to the back,and they are still fine today. They have a new tech that well I just don't know. He replaced the surrounds on my L65 woofers and glue is visable almost 3/4" below the surround not even uniformly. The bead around the cap must be 1/2" wide and far from even. I mentioned this to the owner and asked if the tech could be a little neater, his response,"he's gonna do what he's gonna do. What a rotten frickin attitude. I would have let loose right there but he is the only gig in town. What a frickin shame. Granted they only charge $35 per surround, Butttttttttttttttt. So besides appearence, having the surround on the front, any prolems?? They seem to sound fine...:blink:

With this in mind you could probably do a better job then these Dauche-Bags, besides, one could derive great pleasure by not giving them further business with their friendly dispositions.
With a little care and patience you could do a very nice job indeed.;)

[4313B]

With a little care and patience you could do a very nice job indeed.;)I might add that Rick Cobb is an awesome source of help as well.

[infinityQ2]

It's called NewEngland Speaker in Stoneham Mass. The Tech that used to do repairs for 20yrs or so recently passed away, He did great work. He replaced the surrounds on my L110s about 18yrs ago, attaching them to the back,and they are still fine today. They have a new tech that well I just don't know. He replaced the surrounds on my L65 woofers and glue is visable almost 3/4" below the surround not even uniformly. The bead around the cap must be 1/2" wide and far from even. I mentioned this to the owner and asked if the tech could be a little neater, his response,"he's gonna do what he's gonna do. What a rotten frickin attitude. I would have let loose right there but he is the only gig in town. What a frickin shame. Granted they only charge $35 per surround, Butttttttttttttttt. So besides appearence, having the surround on the front, any prolems?? They seem to sound fine...:blink:

And Oh Ya I forgot to mention, He didn't use a 10" surround, he used a bigger one and lapped it:bs:

[Fred Sanford]

And Oh Ya I forgot to mention, He didn't use a 10" surround, he used a bigger one and lapped it:bs:

That just added "lame" to the already established "lazy". Not acceptable.

je

[infinityQ2]

That just added "lame" to the already established "lazy". Not acceptable.

je
Wish I had some good news butttt, I was listening to these L96s the other night and decided to light them up a little. The woofer that has the new surround started to "pop" and "buzz" during some heavy lows, the other woofer was fine. Does this mean he misaligned the voice coil during the shimming procedure??? And,, I hope I'm wrong, but the woofers in my L65s, that I had him resurround are attached to the front of the cone, is this wrong also.. YIKES:blink:

[LRBacon]

The woofer that has the new surround started to "pop" and "buzz" during some heavy lows, the other woofer was fine. Does this mean he misaligned the voice coil during the shimming procedure???


Sounds to me like the surround is not completely glued to the cone. If it is glued to the back of the cone, like it is supposed to be, then you'll have to remove the woofer, locate the unglued portions of the surround and reglue it. The person who did your refoam job should have the glue and be willing to repair it.

[infinityQ2]

Sounds to me like the surround is not completely glued to the cone. If it is glued to the back of the cone, like it is supposed to be, then you'll have to remove the woofer, locate the unglued portions of the surround and reglue it. The person who did your refoam job should have the glue and be willing to repair it.

Like I mentioned in my 1st post he attached the surrounds to the front.I just double checked and they seem tight both on the cone and basket. I might have to find a new hobby if this ship keeps up, or follow the advice given by KT88lover.

Do you know if the L65 surrounds are supposed to be attached to the back, thankfully they work fine.

[MikeBrewster77]

Do you know if the L65 surrounds are supposed to be attached to the back, thankfully they work fine.

Yes, they are, so sadly he effed them up too :( (n.b., the sonic impact of front vs. rear has been oft debated here and among other "experts" as well as having been the subject of mixed messages from JBL themselves.)

Nonetheless, the guy clearly - and unfortunately for you - does shitty, piss poor work, and minimally should tell you if he's going to alter your drivers before just going ahead and doing so. I'd definintly go have a "conversation" with him!

Best,
- Mike

[KT88Lover]

Like I mentioned in my 1st post he attached the surrounds to the front.I just double checked and they seem tight both on the cone and basket. I might have to find a new hobby if this ship keeps up, or follow the advice given by KT88lover.

Do you know if the L65 surrounds are supposed to be attached to the back, thankfully they work fine.

Make one attempt to give them the chance to make it right, to YOUR satisfaction, and if they do not, or try and blow you off, then go straight to small claims.

Sue for the total cost of a re-cone job. They will argue that they are only responsible for the work they did and that the voice coil, motor etc could have already had troubles brewing (you know they will). (The judge will definitely ask you how you arrived at the amount. Just explain it; don't be intimidated.)

But that's BS unless they had you sign off (or spoke to you on the subject) on potential hidden damages or a preexisting condition when you picked up your drivers. Even that is a weak argument with a good judge: "well then why did you perform a repair and take payment for it if the item being repaired was already inoperable"? Understand me? You will win.
I don't know all the nuances of consumer law in your state with regard to the awarding of damages, but YOUR argument in small claims should be "good faith".
I assume that when you went to pick your speakers up and paid them their price you were fully expecting your transducers to be in good, if not top, operating condition.
In fact, I know it. Stand your ground and "tell it to the judge".
They broke your shit. Make them pay.
I'm so sick and tired of half ass workmanship and disregard for quality in this country I could scream.
Get busy.
Let us know how it turns out.

Jim

[4313B]

I'm so sick and tired of half ass workmanship and disregard for quality in this country I could scream.Isn't it amazing? And we used to be so damn good at what we did. Pity.

They killed off all the tradesmen and craftsmen in this country for a quick buck and now we're just a raped husk. What's really weird is how many times a day I hear this and yet no one wants to actually raise hell about it. We've grown awfullly complacent. Honestly though? The people all around me seem tired, worn out and depressed. Morale is totally shot. Maybe it's just a rust-belt thing...

[infinityQ2]

Isn't it amazing? And we used to be so damn good at what we did. Pity.

They killed off all the tradesmen and craftsmen in this country for a quick buck and now we're just a raped husk. What's really weird is how many times a day I hear this and yet no one wants to actually raise hell about it. We've grown awfullly complacent. Honestly though? The people all around me seem tired, worn out and depressed. Morale is totally shot. Maybe it's just a rust-belt thing...

Does any of you know someone at JBL that I can tell what their JBL Authorized service center is doing???????

[hjames]

Isn't it amazing? And we used to be so damn good at what we did. Pity.

They killed off all the tradesmen and craftsmen in this country for a quick buck and now we're just a raped husk. What's really weird is how many times a day I hear this and yet no one wants to actually raise hell about it. We've grown awfullly complacent. Honestly though? The people all around me seem tired, worn out and depressed. Morale is totally shot. Maybe it's just a rust-belt thing...

Nope - you raise hell about it and you are either a crank or a bitch - being proactive about getting your rights makes you an annoyance to their business process!

[KT88Lover]

Does any of you know someone at JBL that I can tell what their JBL Authorized service center is doing???????

Grow a pair, and force their hand (the shop that hacked your drivers) to make you whole again, OR just take it and "like it".

Looking for a third party solution is NOT the answer, it's part of the problem, along with the decline of the American work ethic as mentioned above.

Even IF JBL made some gesture on your behalf, that's not holding accountable the party that is actually responsible. I seriously doubt JBL will pull their plug unless you are one of hundreds.

This is one of the times when it's right and indicated to take matters into your own hands and not go running to tell the teacher.

Jim

[KT88Lover]

Isn't it amazing? And we used to be so damn good at what we did. Pity.

They killed off all the tradesmen and craftsmen in this country for a quick buck and now we're just a raped husk. What's really weird is how many times a day I hear this and yet no one wants to actually raise hell about it. We've grown awfullly complacent. Honestly though? The people all around me seem tired, worn out and depressed. Morale is totally shot. Maybe it's just a rust-belt thing...


Yep, I hear you Brother. People are so pacified with that digital narcotic goin' round, that they don't seem to mind trading tomorrow for today.

Stoned impotence.

But it IS costing us; from the White House to the out house. "Industries" have grown out of folks not being able to carry on their own business, but we have to IMPORT bath towels and red peppers. "Consumer help hot line, how may we assist you today"?

And everybody's lovin' it, all the "great" deals and all......

Sometimes I just want to cry. It's a real drag.

Jim

[LRBacon]

Like I mentioned in my 1st post he attached the surrounds to the front.I just double checked and they seem tight both on the cone and basket. I might have to find a new hobby if this ship keeps up, or follow the advice given by KT88lover.

Do you know if the L65 surrounds are supposed to be attached to the back, thankfully they work fine.

All it takes is small section of the surround that is not glued to cause the crack/flap noise.

Good luck on what ever choice you make.

Larry

[infinityQ2]

All it takes is small section of the surround that is not glued to cause the crack/flap noise.

Good luck on what ever choice you make.

Larry

Larry I may have found the problem, as a wrote earlier he didn't use a 10" surround. He used a larger one, cut and seemed it. I thought it was tight but after poking around I found it open just a bit. Will glue and let you know. Hope this is it. I'm putting up some pics of his handy work, form my cell phone, not so clear, Mike.

[4313B]

Larry I may have found the problem, as a wrote earlier he didn't use a 10" surround. He used a larger one, cut and seemed it.Oh for crying out loud!

[MikeBrewster77]

I'm putting up some pics of his handy work, form my cell phone, not so clear, Mike.

The pics may not be clear, but I'm sorry, it certainly is that this guy does shitty work. As has been gently suggested earlier in this thread, you need to take direct action with the "tech" (and I use that word as loosely as the pictured surround is fitted.)

Oh, and no offense, but WTF are you doing gluing this gaping breach in the surround??? Do you really think that's going to get you anywhere even close to factory performance? Should you have to do that after you paid for service? For fuck's sake man, take the damned things back and get them fixed, or better yet, go get your effin money back and take them to the other shop mentioned earlier in this thread since clearly this doucebag is incapable of anything even remotely resembling quality or precision work.

- Mike

[KT88Lover]

What's that fishy smell? Does anyone smell fish or is it just me?

Jim

[KT88Lover]

The pics may not be clear, but I'm sorry, it certainly is that this guy does shitty work. As has been gently suggested earlier in this thread, you need to take direct action with the "tech" (and I use that word as loosely as the pictured surround is fitted.)

Oh, and no offense, but WTF are you doing gluing this gaping breach in the surround??? Do you really think that's going to get you anywhere even close to factory performance? Should you have to do that after you paid for service? For fuck's sake man, take the damned things back and get them fixed, or better yet, go get your effin money back and take them to the other shop mentioned earlier in this thread since clearly this doucebag is incapable of anything even remotely resembling quality or precision work.

- Mike


Yeah, but he used shims! :D

Jim

[grumpy]

Was the receipt made out using crayons on butcher paper? :blink:
...an extremely pathetic example of near zero or poor training and workmanship,
...or give-a-shitmanship. Good luck getting a satisfactory response. wow.

[MikeBrewster77]

Does anyone smell fish or is it just me?
No, not at all :blink:
http://www.countryinns.com/chi/images/hotels/WABOTHEL/loc_fish-market.jpg


Yeah, but he used shims! :D
Oh, well in THAT case... :rolleyes:

[infinityQ2]

Was the receipt made out using crayons on butcher paper? :blink:
...an extremely pathetic example of near zero or poor training and workmanship,
...or give-a-shitmanship. Good luck getting a satisfactory response. wow.

What receipt???? CASH...

[grumpy]

The cosmetics are toast. Get a proper refoam kit from Mr. Cobb, do your
best to remove the newly glued piece, and get some practice in doing it.
Might as well. That and start looking for another, perhaps that just needs
a refoam job (you'll have the practice in).

[infinityQ2]

The cosmetics are toast. Get a proper refoam kit from Mr. Cobb, do your
best to remove the newly glued piece, and get some practice in doing it.
Might as well. That and start looking for another, perhaps that just needs
a refoam job (you'll have the practice in).

Thanks Grumpy, A voice of reason..

[LRBacon]

Oh for crying out loud!

I said "Oh My God!!!!" when I saw that seam. That's a very unprofessional job if you ask me.


When I did my orginal LE111Hs in the early 90's with the kit I bought from Simply Speakers, at least I used the proper size. I glued them to the front of the cone, but I was just following their directions and didn't know any better.
There was no glue supplied and they suggested contact cement. Not much room for error there and no easy way to clean up the excess cement. I got lucky and didn't have any problems with the voice coil rubbing.

[infinityQ2]

I said "Oh My God!!!!" when I saw that seam. That's a very unprofessional job if you ask me.


When I did my orginal LE111Hs in the early 90's with the kit I bought from Simply Speakers, at least I used the proper size. I glued them to the front of the cone, but I was just following their directions and didn't know any better.
There was no glue supplied and they suggested contact cement. Not much room for error there and no easy way to clean up the excess cement. I got lucky and didn't have any problems with the voice coil rubbing.

You guys are the best.......

[LRBacon]

The cosmetics are toast. Get a proper refoam kit from Mr. Cobb, do your
best to remove the newly glued piece, and get some practice in doing it.
Might as well. That and start looking for another, perhaps that just needs
a refoam job (you'll have the practice in).

If he used a water base glue, you might try dampening the glue with some distilled water. Using a sharp Xacto knife, cut through the surround where it is attached to the basket first. The glue might loosen up with just the water and you may be able to pull the surround away from the cone and not have to use the knife between the cone and the surround. If you have to use the knife, do it very gingerly and try very hard not to cut the cone. Make sure everything has thoroughly dried before glue on the new surrounds.

[rdgrimes]

I've learned from experience that the standard surround glue is pretty easy to peel off the white polyplas surface. Hopefully that's what this joker used, cause it might just peel right off.

[LRBacon]

Larry I may have found the problem, as a wrote earlier he didn't use a 10" surround. He used a larger one, cut and seemed it. I thought it was tight but after poking around I found it open just a bit. Will glue and let you know. Hope this is it. I'm putting up some pics of his handy work, form my cell phone, not so clear, Mike.

Mike, what is the second woofer (the one without the white Aquaplas on the front of the cone) you have there? It doesn't look like it belongs to the LE10 family.

Larry, who's just curious.

[subwoof]

if the "old guy" left the shop, and he was the only one there who went thru JBL training then this assistant-come-lately is in violation of the JBL service agreement.

Ask to see HIS CERTIFICATE. Betcha they did NOT send him to northridge for a campout...

If he doesn't have it, the shop owners who SUPERVISE him must.

one dime - problem solved.

[infinityQ2]

Mike, what is the second woofer (the one without the white Aquaplas on the front of the cone) you have there? It doesn't look like it belongs to the LE10 family.

Larry, who's just curious.

Larry, the second woofer is from my L65s.

[LRBacon]

Larry, the second woofer is from my L65s.


Whew! I was a little concerned there, Mike.

[cooky1257]

Granted they only charge $35 per surround, Butttttttttttttttt. So besides appearence, having the surround on the front, any prolems?? They seem to sound fine...:blink:

Granted the pics are truly shocking and you do have my sympathy but $35 !! what did you expect for that amount of money?
The old saying "pay peanuts, get monkeys..."