New to the site and need advice about JBL 4530

[djnagle]

Hi All, I am new to this site but not new to JBLs. Currently I have Jensen Imperial bass cabs with JBL 136A drivers and 350hz Edgarhorns and JBL 2441 drivers with Radian diaphragms for the mids. Then I have the big Heil tweeters on top of that. I cross at 400hz and 7000hz. I am driving all this with a 6LU8 sweep tube amp for the tweets, 26/300B for the mids, and PP 807 amp for the woofs. Just yesterday a guy called and offered too much money for my Jensen cabs and on the same day I found a pair of JBL 4530 cabs on CL......so I am switching to the 4530. But, there are no drivers in the 4530s. So, what driver should I use? Here are pics of the scoops. Cheers and thanks for your input.

[Earl K]

Hi

- If you're keeping the 136a woofers ( & just selling the Jensen cabinets ) / I'd suggest trying those first .

- The 4530(s) I had back in the late 70s came loaded with alnico 2205a(s) . This speaker ( old 2205 ) was very nice in that scoop.
- The 136a is a "kissing cousin" to the 2205a / though with the compliance loosened up .
- The older pro drivers had a lower Fs when compared to the later ( new & improved ) pro versions . Essentially, Fs went from 30 hz to 40 hz ( where it remains today ) .
- Even the original 2205H had the lower Fs before they made the woofer a bit more robust for the SR industry .

- Anyways, those are my experiences , FWIW .

>< cheers

btw , that is a beautiful finish on those pair .

[djnagle]

Thanks Earl, the 136a I have are borrowed so at some time in the future I have to return them. I will give them a try though. I think the FS on the 136 and the pro version the 2231 is 16hz. So it might be a little waisted on this cab. Cheers.

[subwoof]

I would not suggest any of the foam surround woofers since their Fs is BELOW what the cabinet can reproduce so without a good HPF they will bottom out.

I made hundreds of scoops back in the day and the 2225 would be my suggestion. If you are into low power stuff then the 2220 would be better.

The newer 2226 and 2227 would work just as well but once vintage,,always vintage...

sub

[Earl K]

I would not suggest any of the foam surround woofers since their Fs is BELOW what the cabinet can reproduce so without a good HPF they will bottom out.

I made hundreds of scoops back in the day and the 2225 would be my suggestion. If you are into low power stuff then the 2220 would be better.

The newer 2226 and 2227 would work just as well but once vintage,,always vintage...

sub

- I'll defer to your greater experience with these horns / it's been over 30 years since I had any of my own .
- Back then ( before that little Urei HPF was released ), we Hipassed them with whatever was available to us / mostly shelving the low frequencies ( below 40hz ) with an EQ .

- Did you prefer the 2225 over the 2226 ?

>< cheers

[subwoof]

I actually preferred the E145 over them all but they were too heavy and the frame extension meant a custom grill. Punchy as hell and very good mid range. Paired with the 2390/2441 on top and it was a plug+play system for just about anything. That was my first "big" apartment / PA system and my first eviction reason too...:)

My band rentals used the E140 because it's slight non-linear punch was right in the sweet spot and the bass player would sometimes use one on stage. 6 of these scoops powered by a single PSA2 would shake the walls of any club.

The 2225 just seems to be a bit nicer down low than the 2226 but I sold all my systems right before the 2226 types came out so I did not have many hours A-B listening to them live in scoops.

This summer I will be resurrecting my wood shop and will be building some 4530's to satisfy my old customers and my occasional install. Maybe some 4520's and it's 18" variant

sub

[macaroonie]

Now there is a subject for a pictorial blow by blow :D

[djnagle]

I just found out that the guy who built them cut down on of the baffle boards in side the cab. If you are standing in front of the cab and put your hand up the scoop, the baffle you feel toward you was cut down by 4 inches. When asked why he did this, he just shruged and said he though it was a good idea. He is a builder of kitchen cabs and fine furnature and has NO IDEA about speakers. So that is something that I will have to fix. A friend of mine has a pair of 2225s he is bringing over this weekend so I can, hopefully, have it set up soon. Cheers.

[jblwolf]

These were the same ones that were on cl in 2007 with d130's or d131's,when I talked with him on the phone he claimed they were original westrex cabs,and had custom upper enclosures built by his brother for a 075-when I and a another LH member arrived we found home brew cabs .:banghead:
last year they did end up on ebay (without any drivers),I emailed the winning bidder and was told he walked because of misrepresentation issues,you may want to look up:f/s c-43 cabinets that was posted here sometime last year.

[Russellc]

I just found out that the guy who built them cut down on of the baffle boards in side the cab. If you are standing in front of the cab and put your hand up the scoop, the baffle you feel toward you was cut down by 4 inches. When asked why he did this, he just shruged and said he though it was a good idea. He is a builder of kitchen cabs and fine furnature and has NO IDEA about speakers. So that is something that I will have to fix. A friend of mine has a pair of 2225s he is bringing over this weekend so I can, hopefully, have it set up soon. Cheers.
The 2225H is a great driver, I really love the punch it provides. As a plus, it has the identical motor as the 2235H and can be reconed later. I did this with one pair and love them, but I have anothe set of unmolested 2225H that came in the 4647 cabs. They appear to be the original driver for these boxes, and the boxes have consecutive serial numbers...I hate screwing up original stuff.....good luck, and man o man those are really nice looking cabs there!

Russellc

[djnagle]

Hey Wolf, thanks for the link. I read it from start to finish. The guy told me from the start that they were DIY so I had no illusions. There is no doubt that the guy is full of $h!t but whom ever built the cabs did a nice job....it was not him I don't think. When I go to pay him and pick them up, I'll be taking the 4530 plans with me and measuring them against the plan to ensure they are to spec. If not, oh well.....I'll have sold off my Jensen Imperial woofer cabs and will have nothing........but a set of plans.

[jblwolf]

Years ago I let a pair of "JBL" 4530's with 2205's go-that was a mistake,been looking for a real pair ever since,most of the ones Ive ran into were home brew or too beat.
please let us know how things workout on your project- Wolf

[ncmando]

Years ago I let a pair of "JBL" 4530's with 2205's go-that was a mistake,been looking for a real pair ever since,most of the ones Ive ran into were home brew or too beat.
please let us know how things workout on your project- Wolf

man, I did too. should never have sold those things, they rock!

[Woody Banks]

When I go to pay him and pick them up, I'll be taking the 4530 plans with me and measuring them against the plan to ensure they are to spec. If not, oh well.....I'll have sold off my Jensen Imperial woofer cabs and will have nothing........but a set of plans.

I like you approach. If the cabinets are not built to spec. then any modifications would be damn near impossible because of the sandwich type of construction.
I built a pair of scoops back in the 70's and used the 2220A's with the LE85's for a nice combination. Very impressive chest thumping bass with a moderate amount of power. It is easy to be overwhelming in a small room. The only real downside is that when the volume is cranked down the bass does a disappearing act. It reminds me of the Seinfeld "Shrinkage"episode where the bass shrinks up like a "frightened turtle".
:D

[spkrman57]

At least that's what I'm thinking here.

I know in my listening room(small), horn loading becomes overbearing when the levels get over a watt or two.

Regards, Ron

[djnagle]

Well, I have them set up in my space and am just blown away by the tight bass. I couple folks said I'd need a sub, but I am starting to wonder. The bass goes very low....at least for me. The cabs are built of 13 ply Baltic bearch and are VERY WELL CONSTRUCTED. They are not JBL made, but that are exactly to spec. There are a couple of nail pops that are not noticable unless you really look. The Edgarhorns with the JBL 2441 (w/radian diaphragms) and Heils are seemless on the cab, top to bottom. The imaging, dynamics, and clarity are outstanding. I am very impressed overall. Each cab weights twice as much as my Jensen Imperals and are so much more beautiful.

My room is 20' wide X 30' deep and the speaker face are 14' from my nose. The ceiling is accoustic tile, carpet floor, cloth furnature, and cloth drapes. At the end of the room, it turns left into the living room and when the weather is hot I can open up four sliding glass doors, so winter or summer, the bass has somewhere to go. If any of you are in the S.E. Michigan area, you are welcome to stop by for a listen. Cheers and thanks for your help.

P.S., I stuck the JBL 136a in for the time being. If they sound this good, I can't wait to get the 2225s in.

In the third pic you can see my old tenis shoes holding up the 2441s. That was fine with the old IMPS, but now I have to make a stand that matches the cabs.


http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a60/djnagle/IMG_3520.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a60/djnagle/IMG_3521.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a60/djnagle/IMG_3522.jpg

[Earl K]

Very , very , nice DJ ! I happen to love redwood type finishes ( but now you'll need to redo all your wood-panelling to match ) ;)
- I'm quite jealous . By chance , are you going to stain those EdgarHorns to match ?


P.S., I stuck the JBL 136a in for the time being. If they sound this good, I can't wait to get the 2225s in.

- 2225s will be a few db more efficient .
- RE: subwoofs caution ; the 136a has a mass ring ( of @ 35 grams ) glued to the top of the voice-coil ( you'd need to remove the dustcap to actually see it ) . If you over excursion these woofers ( on the inwards cone movement ), you'll "slap" metal to metal ( mass-ring to top-plate ) . This should be quite audible and is certainly your cue to turn it down . As previously mentioned, a hipass filter ( set around 30 hz ) would be a good idea .
- You don't want to damage borrowed woofers now do you ? :p


>< cheers :)

[djnagle]

Hi Earl, yes we are going to tear the back wall down to nothing and put in some windows and built in book shelves. I will stain that and the Edgarhorns to match my scoops.

Thanks for the tip about overexcursion. You are right, I don't want to mess up borrowed drivers. Cheers.

[Doc Mark]

Hey, DJ,

Those cabinets look really nice, and I'll bet they sound nice, too! Congrats on getting them, and it's nice to see you having so much fun getting it all together! That's what it's all about, my Friend, so keep on having fun with your new speaker system! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[subwoof]

Aside from being embellished and misquoted, a simple HPF will allow you to use ANY WOOFER in the 4530 without fear. The woofer is just energizing a horn..

In the old days we would use the 2220 because it simply would not reproduce any notes that low. Same for the E130.

The 2205 / 2225 / E140 could but barely.

The 136/2231/2235/LE15/2215/etc could actually go TOO low, hence the warning.

If I was using this combo in a room I would use the 2227 ( 2220 on steroids ) with the 2450. With a JBL 260A this would remove paint from the walls and your neighbors down the street could distinguish between shit/shoot/shot/shirt/sheet in a vocal articulation test.

With the doors closed.

sub

[djnagle]

A little up date. This is by far the best system I've had in my house so far....and I've had a number of large format horn systems. The 136 is producing GREAT bass and GREAT low volcals. I am crossing over to the 2441s at 1000hz, then to the big Heils at 3500hz. Everything I put on is super dynamic, clear, detailed and life like. The down side is that EVERYTHING comes through. So if is it a crap recording, I can't even listen to it. They play classical like you are right there. They play rock like it is ripping your chest apart, and jazz is so smooth.

This weekend is the AKfest here in the Detroit area and I am giving the 136s back to their rightfull owner.....but, he is leaving me with a pair of 2225s.:applaud:

[Earl K]

Thanks for the update DJ :)

Have you tried crossing over those EdgarHorns at a lower frequency ?

>< cheers

[djnagle]

Hi Earl, yes, I run from from 350hz to 1000hz. The sounded good from 450hz on up, but with the woofs filling in the low volcals, they sound much richer. And, I can better set the levels between the woofs and mids this way. When I close my eyes, the speakers just disappear. When I stand 4 to 5 feet in front of one or the other speaker, I can't tell what part of the speaker is producing which signal. I am very pleased.

[spkrman57]

I'm just curious if you are getting any real output from the horn/driver below 500hz which is the bottom limit of the horn loading for a 350hz tractix horn.

I have mine running at 800hz which seems like a good spot for them.

Regards, Ron



Hi Earl, yes, I run from from 350hz to 1000hz. The sounded good from 450hz on up, but with the woofs filling in the low volcals, they sound much richer. And, I can better set the levels between the woofs and mids this way. When I close my eyes, the speakers just disappear. When I stand 4 to 5 feet in front of one or the other speaker, I can't tell what part of the speaker is producing which signal. I am very pleased.

[djnagle]

Hi S, yes I do get signal below 500hz but it is down a bit. I ran mine at 700hz for a long time, but at 1000hz the low volcals are much lusher....and smoother. It seems to give a good timber to the whole system. Cheers.

[spkrman57]

I thought you were crossing over the 350hz Edgarhorns @ 350hz. Now I see you are running them from 1khz to 3.5khz, right?

Ron



Hi S, yes I do get signal below 500hz but it is down a bit. I ran mine at 700hz for a long time, but at 1000hz the low volcals are much lusher....and smoother. It seems to give a good timber to the whole system. Cheers.

[djnagle]

When I put them on the scoops, I started playing with crossover points. I don't know why but just switching the bass cabs changed the whole sound of the system. So after playing with it for a while, I ended up crossing at 1khz and 3.5khz. I just can't tell where one driver ends and the other begins.