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mm54
04-11-2009, 08:19 PM
hello to all members,
i am from France
I am new on this forum and I read with great interest the various topics .. we might lose!
For a long time I wanted to realize a childhood dream:
have a hifi system 70's old with JBL speakers, I like these speakers, I had long ago 4311B of which was beautiful but unfortunately I could not keep them ..

My first purchase was a Studer A810 that I got in Germany, a beautiful tape
Second , i acquired a few days ago a couple BOSE 4401 + 1801 that I should receive within 1 week.
I do not know if it's a good set but the blow of heart for me !
pictures in a few days
I want to have your opinion about the best JBL speakers that I can set this amp + pre amp?
I have also the possibility to use 901 but i dont now this speakers
If anyone has information on patterns, materials, connections, manuals on this BOSE couple....

then he should choose a CD player, a turntable, a tuner, all of which should be 70/80 years
Thank you
michel

mm54
04-19-2009, 01:51 AM
thank you, i have find my informations _michel

mm54
04-23-2009, 08:33 PM
I want to have your opinion about the best JBL speakers that I can set this amp + pre amp
I would like the JBL L300 SUMMIT , there are very beautiful on ebay U.S.($3650) but the transport price is too high for France(about $2500)

if you can give me the difference between JBL L300 SUMMIT and JBL L300
thank you for your answers

yellowshark
04-24-2009, 03:18 AM
Hi MM54, how can I send you a PM ?

mm54
04-30-2009, 12:51 AM
if anyone knows the difference between JBL L300 SUMMIT and JBL L300

mm54
04-30-2009, 07:51 AM
thank you, i have find 2 JBL L300 SUMMIT
end_michel

hjames
04-30-2009, 07:53 AM
The difference is just presentation ...
L300 and L300 Summit is the same thing ...

mm54
04-30-2009, 03:09 PM
The difference is just presentation ...
L300 and L300 Summit is the same thing ...

thank you hjames (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/member.php?u=3090) i have find 2 JBL L300 SUMMIT and I hope it will have a beautiful sound with my Bose 4401+1801 ... test in 3/4 weeks
I thought the summit was more recent and therefore a little better ..but it is also possible a marketing name with no change!
best regards

BMWCCA
04-30-2009, 05:42 PM
I thought the summit was more recent and therefore a little better ..but it is also possible a marketing name with no change!
best regardsIf I remember correctly, the vintage JBLs with the names on the "foilcal" (that's what JBL calls the metal-foil label where the crossover L-pad knobs usually are) are the earlier versions. In most cases the system is the same. I believe I remember the names got dropped about the same time JBL changed plant locations.

I'm sure someone here will correct me if I'm wrong. ;)

The differences in the two versions of the L300 Summit/L300A can be seen here:
http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Technical%20Sheet/L300%20Summit%20ts.pdf
http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Technical%20Sheet/L300A%20Summit%20ts.pdf

Ronnie Dagevos
05-05-2009, 11:56 AM
hello to all members,
i am from France
I am new on this forum and I read with great interest the various topics .. we might lose!
For a long time I wanted to realize a childhood dream:
have a hifi system 70's old with JBL speakers, I like these speakers, I had long ago 4311B of which was beautiful but unfortunately I could not keep them ..


My first purchase was a Studer A810 that I got in Germany, a beautiful tape

Second , i acquired a few days ago a couple BOSE 4401 + 1801 that I should receive within 1 week.
I do not know if it's a good set but the blow of heart for me !
pictures in a few days
I want to have your opinion about the best JBL speakers that I can set this amp + pre amp?
I have also the possibility to use 901 but i dont now this speakers
If anyone has information on patterns, materials, connections, manuals on this BOSE couple....

then he should choose a CD player, a turntable, a tuner, all of which should be 70/80 years
Thank you
michel

Halo Michel,

I have a BOSE pre amp and power amp, the same as you bought.
I have had allways a pair of BOSE spaekers. But they are gone.
I am looking to buy my old JBL 4343B speakers back. I sold them years ago to a small studio. But the owner is now selling his stuff.
The BOSE is good material and the JBL's will sound great on the Bose 1801.
I also have a turntable Technics 1201, Nakamichi cassette deck,
Revox B77 recorder.

Send me some pictures,
Ronnie Dagevos e-mail [email protected]

mm54
05-08-2009, 01:44 PM
Hi Ronnie Dagevos (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/member.php?u=10631) thank 's for reply,
i have received my BOSE1801+4401 and the cosmetic condition is mint !
actualy i cant test it because i have no speakers no CD and no tunrtable.
In few days i must go to pickup my L300 SUMMIT (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=24872)...

I must be patient to buy a very good CD ,i thought of STUDER D730 and turntable EMT948 but I will wait ... if you have a Id for other products 70/80 years
pictures in a few days

mm54
05-25-2009, 11:35 PM
i have received my JBL L300 SUMMIT 1976 (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=252805#post252805) and tested with my BOSE1801+4401,
when I connect my turntable Luxman PD277 (coil MC) on the preamp BOSE4401 on IN switch to 1 or 2 for hight or low position
there is a steady background noise every second
if I connect to my Accuphase amp on MC phono1 it works properly
I think there is a problem on the preamp BOSE4401?

is it possible he does not accept MC entry ?
it seems yes on the manual but it is a copy and I can not properly read
the part that corresponds to the connection of a phono1 or 2

if impossible can i use outside adaptator...
since MC to IN adaptator and OUT adaptator to IN PREAMP PHONO1

Hofmannhp (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/member.php?u=483) say the output of a Mooving Coil phono cartridge doesn't fir to the 4401.
therefore you need a Preamp with an MC input.
I suppose it is Preamp Phono like Clearaudio (http://www.clearaudio.de/eng/navi_pv.html)

the user manual says that the 4401 is compatible with the magnet coils MM
I would rather a problem with the phono stage of the 4401 which is more serious, I is not a means of control should be another person who uses the 4401 and which has a turntable with an MC cell if that work ??

mm54
05-26-2009, 11:27 AM
i think Hofmannhp (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/member.php?u=483) have the good answer,
the 4401 phono sensitivity is 2mV (for MM cell) in phono1 and 2
and my cartridge is :
CELL MOBILE REEL (MC) - DENON DL 103 PRO Voltage Output (1kHz, 50 mm / sec): 0.35 mV (1KHz 50mm/sec) Frequency response in Hertz: 20 - 75 000 Impedance Output (20Hz-20kHz) in Ohms: 38 Channel separation: More than 26 dB difference in sensitivity of channels: <1 dB Pointe reading: Elliptical diamond Flexibility dynamic (100 Hz): 6 x 10-6 cm / dyne Force Support: 2 g + / - 0.2 g Weight: 8.5 g

my question :
if I shall make a phono preamp type Clearaudio (http://www.clearaudio.de)which has come between the phono and entry platinum phono 1 or 2 does it work or do I use the auxiliary input of the preamp in this case I'm bothering because I use the auxiliary input for my CD?

what kind of cartrige does i use to have better sound ?

macaroonie
05-26-2009, 12:33 PM
Have a search for a MC step up transformer. Denon AU 320 is ideal but there are others available.

You have two problems with the input to the Bose pre , the voltage does not match and therefore the bose must create extra gain to compensate. Because of this the background noise and hum increases also.
You may also have a ground loop problem related to the turntable.

The Denon carts are not noisy. :)

mm54
05-27-2009, 10:55 AM
Have a search for a MC step up transformer. Denon AU 320 is ideal but there are others available.
difficuly to find here (http://www.audiocorner.nl/DenonAU-320.htm) is one but to late



You may also have a ground loop problem related to the turntable.


if i connect my turntable on my accuphase(IN MC PHONO2) there is no probleme can you explain please



The Denon carts are not noisy. :)

??

macaroonie
05-27-2009, 05:00 PM
That is the one. Patience laddie one will show up.

Which Accuphase do you have ? This will help me to answer your question.

mm54
05-27-2009, 11:55 PM
Which Accuphase do you have ? This will help me to answer your question.
I have integrated Accuphase E203 (http://www.accuphase.com/e-203_e.htm#) with Phono2(MC)

macaroonie
05-28-2009, 04:28 PM
First of all please tell me how the mains power comes to your Bose units. Do they both plug in to the wall or a distribution board or does the power amp take its power from a switched outlet on the back of the pre-amp.
The reason that I ask this is that in some instances if the flat pin USA type plug is inserted inverse in the accessory outlet on the pre then the total amp set becomes noisy. Simple remedy is to invert the mains connection or to put it another way turn the plug 180 deg.
I have experienced this on several occasions with this age of equipment.

second , there should only be one earth or 'ground' in the system , preferably at the pre-amp , so if the Luxman has a ground connection to the wall then this must be removed.

I need the answers to these points and then we can move on. Pics of the mains power plugs etc would help.

Good luck Mac

doodlebug
05-29-2009, 06:39 PM
I hope I can help here on the phono question:

- The 4401 was _not_ designed to accept a Moving Coil cartridge directly.
- You will need a step-up transformer (SUT) _or_ what is called a pre-preamp in order to use the Moving Coil cartridge with the Bose 4401.
- You will need about +20dB of extra gain from the SUT or pre-preamp
- Your Accuphase has this extra +20dB of gain built in, which explains why it works.
- The Denon AU320 is a SUT and will provide the extra +20dB of gain. You will plug the turntable into the SUT then plug the SUT into the phono inputs of your Bose 4401.

Until you can find a suitable SUT or pre-preamp, I'd suggest you use the phono section of the Accuphase and run the Tape Output from it into the AUX on the Bose 4401. In this way, you can listen to LPs only it is not using the phono preamp section of the Bose 4401.

Hope that helps a bit.

Cheers,

David

mm54
06-12-2009, 10:09 AM
40057

40056

mm54
06-12-2009, 10:14 AM
Until you can find a suitable SUT or pre-preamp, I'd suggest you use the phono section of the Accuphase and run the Tape Output from it into the AUX on the Bose 4401. In this way, you can listen to LPs only it is not using the phono preamp section of the Bose 4401.

Than you David great idea!

haveyou a idea on the Mc stepUp that i can use, i have find this :
Fidelity Research XF-2
Dynavector PHA-200
Denon AU320/AU340
Supex SDT77/SDT180


the problem is that there are many products and it is very difficult to navigate between the price and quality, always the same problem

mm54
06-12-2009, 10:21 AM
there should only be one earth or 'ground' in the system , preferably at the pre-amp , so if the Luxman has a ground connection to the wall then this must be removed.
I need the answers to these points and then we can move on. Pics of the mains power plugs etc would help.

Hi Mac, thank you for your help
actually my 4401 and 1801 are in standby and my JBL L300 SUMMIT 1976 (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=24872) are connected on my Accuphase E203 (http://www.accuphase.com/e-203_e.htm#) for using my LPs

the 4401 is pluged directly to the 220V like the 1801
yes the Luxman has a ground connection and have connected the gound on the 4401 ground conector ..
Michel

macaroonie
06-13-2009, 07:36 AM
Almost certainly the use of a step up transformer will solve your problem.
The Accuphase will have a pre out / power input socket with a switch or a U link to disconnect the two parts. Why not use the Accuphase Pre and try out the Bose power with that.

The pic is from the E203 spec file and tells us that the Pre out is on that model

mm54
06-15-2009, 09:39 AM
The Accuphase will have a pre out / power input socket with a switch or a U link to disconnect the two parts. Why not use the Accuphase Pre and try out the Bose power with that.
it will be a good idea.. but i dont now how can i connect E703 to 1801 and if compatible

mm54
06-16-2009, 08:37 AM
find on http://www3.sympatico.ca/sireno/Bose1801ByBillTolbert.jpg (http://www3.sympatico.ca/sireno/vintage_audio.htm)

40166

Service Manual 4401 (http://www.audio-circuit.dk/images/schematics/bose-4401-pre-sm.pdf)

macaroonie
06-17-2009, 10:42 AM
Here is a ( poor quality ) pic of a typical Accuphase rear panel.

Inside the pink square there are two pairs of sockets marked ' pre out ' and ' main in '. Beside these there is a switch whick either links or disconects the two parts of the amp. To do what you want to try, connect a phono lead from the ' pre out ' sockets to the input on the Bose power amp. You also must move the switch on the Accuphase to the ' disconnected ' position so that the Accuphase power amp section is not receiving any input signal.

Hope this helps.

mm54
06-17-2009, 01:21 PM
Shematic E203 Accuphase (http://www.audio-circuit.dk/images/schematics/Accuphase-E203-int-sch.pdf)

Shematic Bose 1801 part (http://www.audio-circuit.dk/images/schematics/bose-1801-pwr-sm.pdf)

i make test this WE but i prefer use my 4401 + 1801 together

have always no idea on the Mc stepUp that i can use, i have find this :
Fidelity Research XF-2
Dynavector PHA-200
Denon AU320/AU340
Supex SDT77/SDT180

macaroonie
06-17-2009, 05:06 PM
Bose are not respected as a maker of amplifiers ( or anything that I can think of ) Yet Accuphase have continued quietly to make some of the best amplifiers EVER made. I would easily bet that the Accuphase you have will sound very much nicer than the Bose although with less power.
I had an E202 for 27 years and I gave it to a good friend who now runs it with big Tannoy 15's and it still sounds as clear as a bell.
Just because the Bose says its 400 watts and has nice meters means absolutely nothing.
I say stick with the Accuphase !!!! and sell the Bose to a Disco.:applaud:

mm54
07-10-2009, 09:17 AM
my impressions L300 SUMMIT (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=258488&postcount=92) with 1801+4401
as i say in this tread, I note that these are my impressions and I understand that we can have a different view

hjames
07-10-2009, 10:28 AM
test L300 SUMMIT (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=258488&postcount=92) with 1801+4401

Link is not to an actual TEST, just to a post you made with those words.
Glad you are happy with that gear, others may be more critical than that.

jcrobso
07-10-2009, 11:16 AM
When Bo$e speakers first came out there were very few high power amps.
Bo$e speakers need a lot of power, so Bose got into the amp business.
After looking a the Bose amp schematic I found that it has 85vdc rails for the output stage. In theory it could deliver almost 600w RMS into a 8 ohm load at least for a short period of time, one channel driven. Thus I'm fairly sure it could provide 400w both channels driven.

mm54
03-15-2010, 03:55 AM
in perfect cosmetic and operating
the 4401 is a rarer piece from Bose

BOSE1801PICTURES (http://www.flickr.com/photos/35174962@N06/sets/72157623034460317/show/)

BOSE4401PICTURES (http://www.flickr.com/photos/35174962@N06/sets/72157623493629677/show/)

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=27344