3 - way system w/Edgarhorn tractix

[spkrman57]

Here's my latest prototype system in the works!:blink:

JBL 2225H 15" in 3 cu ft tuned to 35hz(WT2 results), ports on rear.

JBL 2440 2" compression driver (w/2441 phase plug and Radian diaphrams) on 350hz tractix wood Edgarhorn.

Pyramid TW-47 2" bullet tweeter

Crossover: Low pass @ 500hz 1st order, 500hz high pass on Edgarhorn @ 3rd order w/L-pad, 1st order high pass @ 40khz on bullet tweeter to match attenuation to LF/MF sections. Oil caps with .01 mfd bypass caps used throughout.

Future mods to include changing LF section to JBL 2240H 18" in 4 cu ft cab tuned to 40hz, and converting to 1st order on all 3 drivers.:bouncy:

Imaging is excellent with only downfall is being only 7' away from these horns is a bit close. I will extend the speakers closer in the corners to gain some distance between the speakers and the listening location.

Amp is rebuilt/modded NorH SE-9 SE class "A" EL34 @ 7 wpc!

I used the Pyramid tweeter as I don't need much HF response and they cost less than more refined horn tweeters I have used in the past.

Just thought I would share in case anyone cares!;)

[grumpy]

Betting those draw you into the music :). Looks like too much fun!

[spkrman57]

These 350hz Edgarhorns are more intense in their ouput than the 500hz/650hz Edgarhorns I have used before!

They DO image like crazy!

Regards, Ron

[jerv]

How do the Radian diaphragms compare to originals?

Espen

[spkrman57]

I never had a pair of 2440/2441 with original diaphrams to compare them to.

Bruce Edgar says the Radians don't reach as high as the JBL aluminum/titanium originals, but since his designs use 500hz 1st order crossovers that the Radians are betters suited for the lower frequency handling.

I have a 3rd order @ 500hz right now, but plan to change to 1st order throughout when my 2240's are utilized for LF duty.

I can only say the Radians sound okay to me in this application.

Regards, Ron



How do the Radian diaphragms compare to originals?

Espen

[spkrman57]

A fully horn-loaded 3-way system would really utilize the full potential and efficiency this system has to offer.

I'm contemplating cutting down a A7 VOTT cab for the midbass horn section and port it below like the 816 cab system.

It's running nicely now, but still have many tweaks to do on the crossover and better voice coil alignment with my next baffle boards for the MF/HF horns.

Regards, Ron

[Paul D]

Very nice system!

I'd be interested to know how it turns out with the Altec horn low end. I never thought I would like a horn loaded low end until I aquired some 4560 cabinets. The only thing I miss are the sub frequencies.

Keep us posted please!

[jcrobso]

I have a pair of them, I use a home made pair of C40s get the lower bass.
The bass on the 4650 is starting to roll off at the point that rear loaded horn on the C40 kicks in. But a good sub will also do the job. John

[spkrman57]

I'm not sure how much lower the response will go with porting to help extend LF response.

I'll post when I get the chance to dig the cabs out of my garage and perform the surgery!

Regards, Ron

[Mr. Widget]

They DO image like crazy!I can imagine!! I like them myself, but you do end up with a very small sweet spot.

Widget

[Paul D]

I have a pair of them, I use a home made pair of C40s get the lower bass.
The bass on the 4650 is starting to roll off at the point that rear loaded horn on the C40 kicks in. But a good sub will also do the job. John


I never knew that the C40's went lower than the perkins cab. What drivers are you using in both cabinets? I'm trying to decide what sub to build for my system and it's probably going to be horn loaded to keep up
with the mid bass.

[spkrman57]

I have decided to use a JBL 2240H in a 3.8 cu ft box tuned to 47hz (B 4 alignment per Drew Daniels in a paper I downloaded back around 1996). This results in -3db @ 61hz and -10db @ 38hz, but 99db/watt efficiency.

I can add a sub later if necessary.

Still plan on using the Edgarhorn, not sure about the horn tweeter yet. I have to get the 2-way part of the system tweaked before I go further.

Crossover work will take place tomorrow, too tired today to play anymore.

Here's pics!

Ron sends......

[robertbartsch]

So how high can the 18" 2240s go; I thought they were limited above say 200 - 300hz?

[spkrman57]

I finally threw a crossover over together today and installed it.

2nd order LF and 3rd order HF w/att EQ compensation added.

I don't see any problems up to 800hz with the 2240H, but I'm using it in a small box and tuned higher than some would. There is no thundering bass going on here, but there is a nice subdued bass response that is pleasant to listen to using a Single Ended tube amp keeps the sound softer than when using SS.

I have some tweaks and burn-in to perform, I'll post more opinions later...

Regards, Ron

[spkrman57]

That took care of a slight midrange glare I had with vocals.

I have approx 20hrs of burn-in time on exerything but the zoebel(which was oil cap from previous project, so it was already burned in) and the system really sounds nice.

The bass response is not thundering, but full enough to enjoy. Imaging is decent in my living room, but listening from the kitchen area through a 6' x 4' cutout between the rooms shows killer imaging.

I will have to clear out more space in the living room and space the speakers further apart which will also put more than the 7' distance to the listening space that I have right now.

This has turned out to be a very satisfying project. Next up will be using the 300B SET amp to take it all to the next level!

Regards, Ron

[clubman]

Looks like alot of fun...One question. I am new to crossover building. Are those start/run capacitors like used in hvac systems? I didnt know you can use those for audio?

[spkrman57]

In this case I had no oil caps in the rest of the crossover and needed a 24mfd cap and had some oil caps handy.

Most oil caps work for crossover duty if they test okay for value and ESR. I don't have a ESR meter, so I just test them individually on a cheap paper cone tweeter for sound quality.

Here's pics of my quick and dirty crossovers minus the zoebel(oil cap and resistor).

Ron sends...


Looks like alot of fun...One question. I am new to crossover building. Are those start/run capacitors like used in hvac systems? I didnt know you can use those for audio?

[spkrman57]

Now I definitely hear the bottom end dropping out below 60hz.

Time for a few subs to be added next week when the time permits.

Imaging is quite nice, still much tweaking to be done yet!

Regards, Ron

[mikebake]

You have room issues;
move stuff out of the lower level finally, and try that environment. In your lving room, the subs will sound great in the garage...............

[spkrman57]

Still waiting to get new roof and repairs done. Ins company approved the claim, just need someone to interpet what they are paying to have fixed. The paperwork looks greek to me.

Ron



You have room issues;
move stuff out of the lower level finally, and try that environment. In your lving room, the subs will sound great in the garage...............

[oldsoundz]

There they are...

Nice speakers Ron

[spkrman57]

There they are...

Nice speakers Ron


I hope in a week or two I can have the subs added to the system and rewire the crossover properly. I wanted a quick crossover to use to test originally and so just kept slopping components together with wirenuts. But I know I have to rebuild it neater and will be adding and deleting a few components and will use the terminal barrier strip more efficiently.

Regards, Ron

[capo72]

Nice job, I'm working on a similar 3-way project with a DIY rectangle 225Hz Edgar horn on 2482's with 18" 2245H for the bottom and an Eminence APT-200 Tweeter. I need to finish construction and i'm torn between active and passive crossovers right now. BTW I spied some Cornwall grills in the background of one of your pics. Do tell...........

Jeremy

[spkrman57]

BTW I spied some Cornwall grills in the background of one of your pics. Do tell...........

Jeremy


Their main purpose in life is to kill sound reflections.....

I never had a pair of Cornwalls, just the grills, so this puts them to good use.

Ron

[djnagle]

A fully horn-loaded 3-way system would really utilize the full potential and efficiency this system has to offer.

I'm contemplating cutting down a A7 VOTT cab for the midbass horn section and port it below like the 816 cab system.

It's running nicely now, but still have many tweaks to do on the crossover and better voice coil alignment with my next baffle boards for the MF/HF horns.

Regards, Ron

Hi Ron, I use to run A7s and always wanted to try this mod. Close off the back of the top portion of the A7 so the bottom is seperate. Then stick a 2245 in the bottom as a front firing sub. I've never heard a set up like that but I think it would sound great. Cheers.