Best Cabinet Design For a D120-F (Guitar)

[HipoFutura]

I'd like to build a small speaker cabinet for a single D120-F. This will be driven by a 1972 Traynor YRM-1 50W tube guitar amp. Fender used these speakers in Bandmasters and a bunch of other amps. Since the Bandmaster was a closed back 2X12 cabinet, can I just assume half the volume and design a cabinet that size? As i recall, they were un-ported and stuffed with insulation. How is the tone likely to be affected by an open/closed back? Thanks, I appreciate any help.

[jcrobso]

I have Line6 open back with a E120 in it. I sounds great!
I recently picked up a 4206 stage monitor that comes with a D120F. I'll hook it up to my Line6 and play thought it. The 4206 is ported box, I'll plug the hole and listen to the difference. I'll re post in a couple of days and let you know the results. John

[HipoFutura]

Thanks John. Some first hand experience would be fantastic. The decision is open back, closed back, ported. Thirty years ago I had a Bandmaster with JBLs and loved the tone, so I'm leaning towards that configuration.

[Allanvh5150]

The trend these days is to run a mix of open back, closed back. Mesa Boogie made a quad a while back that was actually 2 boxes with the top one having a removable back. Closed back will give more bottom end response and the open back will favour top end. Theile cabinets have been used as well but are not very common.

Allan.

[jeenie67]

.....Seek a Junior Bandmaster Cabinet. Much smaller than a full sized Bandmaster, but similar sounding and much easier to shluck! I've had both twice over....I'll take the Junior Bandmaster, 2 - 12" drivers in the same configuration as it's bigger brother. Aprox 24" high x 38" or so wide, same 11.5" depth.
:rockon1:

[HipoFutura]

Allen, Great idea! I can design the cab with the middle 1/3 of the back panel removable. Then I have both configurations.

Jeenie, using half of your dimensions I can build the cab 22H X 20W X 12D. That size works for my space requirements. Thanks!

[jeenie67]

Hola senor...My Vox all tube Ac-15's 24"w x 17"h x 10" deep. Open back. One 6" protective strip across the middle, horizontal, and one 12" Wharfedale Bulldog. Screams!
:rockon1:

[Harvey Gerst]

God, I love the Traynor 50 watt amps. What kinda guitar are you gonna be using? Gimme some influences and I may be able to pin down a good design for that speaker.

[HipoFutura]

Hi Harvey, It's a Les Paul with 57 pups. Amazing sustain and resonance. I'm a classic rock kind of guy (late 60's - early 70's). And love the blues - Gary Moore.

I have a Ceriatone blackface Vibro Champ with 2 Webber 10 Vintage Series speakers in an open back combo. This amp is the Fender tone at its best.

The Traynor is for the rocking British tone (Who, Hendrix, etc.). I'm looking for a very different tone from the Traynor and JBL than I get from the Ceriatone.

I want to go with the single 12 JBL to make the cab more portable and to take up less room at home. Am I correct in assuming the single D120 will handle the Traynor?

Thanks again for all the help!

[Earl K]

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=38052&stc=1&d=1237288840

Wow, that's a gorgeous Les Paul. :dancin:

>< cheers

[jcrobso]

God, I love the Traynor 50 watt amps. What kinda guitar are you gonna be using? Gimme some influences and I may be able to pin down a good design for that speaker.

Yes!! The Traynor amps VERY nice!!!

When I was writing my first reply I was thinking that you would be the one to ask! :applaud:John

[Harvey Gerst]

Okay, I'd probably go with the Ceriatone open back cabinet design, but notice the two panels on the back are removable. Go that route, but also make a full back panel to cover the entire rear of the cabinet, making it into a closed back cabinet. You'd have two different sounds to play with and you could chose either one for a particular style of music.

The open back cabinets of that size have a roll off at around 90 Hz, which isn't a problem for most guitars (low E is around 84 Hz). Closing the back should give you a more "chunky" sound.

I have a very old Traynor YBA-1 50 Watt Tube amplifier that I found at a flea market for $20.

[jeenie67]

...my beaters ! Aye! nice Paul....my son has my Gold Top with the little Humbuckers. :rockon1: Jeenie

[HipoFutura]

Thanks Harvey! Looks like we have this figured out. I'll build two backs so the cab can be run either open or closed. Should I insulate the sides, top, and bottom like the old Bandmaster/Showman? Could be a bit of a problem if left with the back open.

$20 for a YBA-1 is unbelievable! That's just one of the many differences between living on a lake in Maine vs the rest of the country. Mine was $420 (just the head). Few people realize what these amps really are. However, that's changing. Very difficult to find a bargain now. Unfortunately Traynor made terrible speaker systems (at least the ones I saw). That may have a lot to do with why they never caught on like Fender & Marshall.

[HipoFutura]

Jeenie, That's quite an eclectic collection of amps and guitars. I like it!

My LP was a special order as Gibson didn't offer the wine red flametop in that particular model. I almost went with a goldtop. That was my second choice. The goldtops were the guitars I lusted over in my youth.

[jcrobso]

Thanks Harvey! Looks like we have this figured out. I'll build two backs so the cab can be run either open or closed. Should I insulate the sides, top, and bottom like the old Bandmaster/Showman? Could be a bit of a problem if left with the back open.

$20 for a YBA-1 is unbelievable! That's just one of the many differences between living on a lake in Maine vs the rest of the country. Mine was $420 (just the head). Few people realize what these amps really are. However, that's changing. Very difficult to find a bargain now. Unfortunately Traynor made terrible speaker systems (at least the ones I saw). That may have a lot to do with why they never caught on like Fender & Marshall.

Try it with and with out the insulation, pick the way you like best.

My problem is that I'm mainly a bass player and JBL only made 15" bass speakers. I have my old Acoustic dual 15 cabinet load with D140Fs, nice but to big in many instances. I have a Line6 lowdown 150 with a 12" nice bass amp. but I bemoaned that JBL never made a 12" version of the D140F.

There is one seller one eBay that makes a D123 guitar speaker by using after market parts. Intrigued by this I emailed him and asked if he made a D/K/E120 bass speaker and if so how did it sound. He replied that he had and it sounded great. I have shipped him a blow E120 I got on eBay and he is going to recone it with a E140 VC and the necessary parts to make into a bass speaker. When I get the speaker I will re post with the results. John

[Harvey Gerst]

My problem is that I'm mainly a bass player and JBL only made 15" bass speakers. I have my old Acoustic dual 15 cabinet load with D140Fs, nice but to big in many instances. I have a Line6 lowdown 150 with a 12" nice bass amp. but I bemoaned that JBL never made a 12" version of the D140F. John
John,

You must realize that at the time I suggested making a dedicated Musical Instrument line of speakers, JBL was a small company, and it was a big risk without knowing if these new products would even sell. That's why I tried to use as many existing parts as possible - to minimize development costs. We didn't have any 18" frames or 18" cones at JBL at the time, or a suitable 12" cone for a bass speaker.

At Acoustic Control, I didn't have those constraints and that's how the Acoustic 361 came about.

[jcrobso]

From what I remember JBL was kinda dragged into the musical speaker field.
I had never heard of JBL until Fender started putting them into their amps.
This did change my life!

My wife thought I was crazy when I wanted to spend $120 1967 dollars on my first D140F, so did some of my friends. I will probably know about two weeks what my Bass 120 will sound like. :) John

[Harvey Gerst]

From what I remember JBL was kinda dragged into the musical speaker field.
I had never heard of JBL until Fender started putting them into their amps.
This did change my life! John
Well, yes and no. Yes, we were getting back a ton of blown JBL's from Fender, and I was the guy that looked at returned speakers to determine if they were covered by our warranty. In the case of Fenders, it was obvious that they were not installing them correctly and the conditions they were used under weren't helping either.

That's why I suggested the changes which became the D120F and D130F. While I proposed these, I also suggested that we introduce a 10" full range and a 15" bass speaker, using existing parts - to create a line of dedicated musical instrument speakers.

So yes, we were dragged into it, but I saw an opportunity for JBL at the same time.

[jeenie67]

..Hola. Wish I had access to ship off a pic, but an old Goldtop is an old Goldtop. I bought it used many moons ago. It sat in the closet the whole time I was married....now my boy takes it. He used to buy all those space guitars and solid state amps....and I just let him be, but when he would come over sometimes, I would start wailin' on the Paul and just smile at him....this is what it should sound like. It took him a while.....and all of a sudden he's bought a Marshall half stack and an original Flying V. So he may borrow the Paul.

I keep the copy as a test bed guitar to try different pickup combination's on and just beat it to death. It plays the same as my Goldie...I put a little clarinet bore oil on the fretboard. I have three springs in the Bigsby to keep it stiff and a strap to keep the springs from falling out when I pull it way the hell away out! The Jap guitar is a who knows what....hell of a sound though....a Blues Machine if I ever heard one. Maybe a Teisco or Eko. The Fender is a "Started out as my old busted Tele"..but couldn't play it comfortable sitting down and bought an old Strat body. Another great stick in the making. Three 60's pickups and a full load of springs in the back. Go through those wanger bars a lot! Amps are a Vox AC-15...a little less volume than a 30...and I Love My Fender Evil Twin !!! KILLER! A DeanGuitars solid state amp about 20 watts for harmonica and an old Turner mike...the kind for paging cabbies!Then a Peavy throw away...
Aye! Good luck with the cab...a little padding doesn't hurt. I wrap my speakers in old panty-hose to keep the dirt out. No buzzin' Cousin!
:banana:

[jcrobso]

"I wrap my speakers in old panty-hose to keep the dirt out. No buzzin' Cousin!"
I used a lot of old PH on my washing machine to catch the lint. but never on speakers. There are some that recommend warping a layer of sound insulation behind the speaker, I guess this would also act as an air filter.:D John

[HipoFutura]

A Les Paul and a Twin Reverb. It doesn't get any better than that!

Don't loose track of that goldtop. Your son could enjoy that for the rest of his life. My son has already told me he will enjoy mine when I'm gone! His way of telling me not to sell it - ever. I have other things that are worth far more money, but the Lester is the only thing he's ever made a point of mentioning in terms of inheritance. The value of these guitars goes far beyond their resale value. They are musical instruments that are works of art. That is the biggest difference between an Les Paul and just about any other guitar.

[jcrobso]

A Les Paul and a Twin Reverb. It doesn't get any better than that!

Don't loose track of that goldtop. Your son could enjoy that for the rest of his life. My son has already told me he will enjoy mine when I'm gone! His way of telling me not to sell it - ever. I have other things that are worth far more money, but the Lester is the only thing he's ever made a point of mentioning in terms of inheritance. The value of these guitars goes far beyond their resale value. They are musical instruments that are works of art. That is the biggest difference between an Les Paul and just about any other guitar.

But it's time for a Fender plug:D. I have a 1960 Strat and my kids are starting to ask for it when I go. My youngest daughter is on record as being the first one to ask for it. She is telling her daughter that it will be hers someday, so guess I have started a family tradition. Currently all 3 of my son-in-laws play guitar and two of my grandchildren play. I have enough guitars to go around.:)
I love that fact that Les Paul is still alive and playing!!:applaud: John

[jeenie67]

...Name it, I've owned it at least 10 times over. I can't count how many Paul's I've had..in every combination and color. Always backed up with a Strat, maple necks only. A dozen or so Tele's which I love, strung heavy, but I can't play em' sittin' down. A couple of Gretch Country Gentleman's were always fun to play. I had an old Gretch Electromatic arched top single cutaway (the Stray Cats dude guitar before he really made it big). And how many acoustics....Gibson's mainly....Hummingbirds, J50's, a real Epiphone Texan....Whoa!!! and for the past two decades an Alvarez which I voiced, shaved the bracing and it's priceless! Everyone who's ever had the opportunity to play it offers me blood money for it. Has the bottom end of a Gibson and the twinkly highs of a Martin.
And amps?
Name the Fender from the old tan cabs to the silver faced...Bandmaster's, Showman's, Dual Showman's,Twins, Deluxe's, a Vibrolux, A couple of Concert's and then the newer Super Reverb's, a few of them, Pro Reverbs and on and on. Then there was the Acoustic 260...mad bad ass amp! Y-corded it with the old tan cab Deluxe. Traynor Yb-1 too...and the Traynor Fender Twin clone they had...too heavy for me! Never had a Marshall, but played through two 100 watt stacks in NYC one summer. What else? God the list could go on all night.
Just 30 years of playin' out since high school. Never a bad night! And now me boy follows suit! Rock on! Jeenie. :band:

[LBDumont]

...to the original topic?

I've got a D120F in a homemade ported cabinet that sounds wonderful, but trade-off was that it's a beast and weighs a ton. I'd love to put it into something a little smaller, but it does some fairly schizophrenic duty. I use it for 2-piece acoustic gigs where I alternate between bass & mandolin. Playing against an acoustic guitar, I can get away with the fact that the D120F isn't designed for bass, and it's really nice for the mandolin. I'm pushing it with a 68-ish Bandmaster that had 2 extra 6L6's wired in and the transformers upgraded to match.

So what's the consensus? Is this large beast of a cabinet the the only viable alternative to dragging two amps to these gigs? Or is there a slicker design (sealed box, maybe?) that will let me go a little smaller and still have decent bass? The Uber-Bandmaster is pushing about 90 watts, so if I lose some efficiency, I'll live. I don't think I've had the bass channel past 6 or the mandolin channel past 4 at these gigs.

Thank you for your kind indulgence.

[macaroonie]

Here is a cab I made for a geetar playing pal of mine. Its a pristine D130 and the dims. are 750 h x 600 w x 300 d not counting the lid. You could do something similar although this size will take 2 x 12 also. If you wanted smaller just scale it down some.
Oh it works a treat and sounds wonderful , loads of zing but also oooomph
He is using a tele with 12 / 13 strings and a crummy Roland combo , but is now saving hard for a 50w Mesa coz he loves the sound of the cab so much.

[LBDumont]

Though that's actually larger than what I've got - interior dimensions of 775x483x267, about 100 liters vs 130 liters for your suggestion. Part of my problem is that I built mine when I was a victim of court-ordered impoverishment and used high-density particle board instead of plywood or pine to keep costs down (and weight UP!) Maybe I should rebuild what I have (and love the sound of) with lighter-weight materials???

I'm open to suggestions, fully aware that I possess just enough knowledge to be dangerous.

[LBDumont]

Though that's actually larger than what I've got - interior dimensions of 775x483x267, about 100 liters vs 130 liters for your suggestion. Part of my problem is that I built mine when I was a victim of court-ordered impoverishment and used high-density particle board instead of plywood or pine to keep costs down (and weight UP!) Maybe I should rebuild what I have (and love the sound of) with lighter-weight materials???

I'm open to suggestions, fully aware that I possess just enough knowledge to be dangerous.

[Harvey Gerst]

The mandolin won't be a problem no matter how small you make the box. It's the box size needed for bass that's the problem. If it were me, I'd probably make the box whatever size is most convenient to transport, and I'd tune the port somewhere around 50 Hz.

For most live gigs, I don't need the very low fundamental (how many times am I gonna play the open E string in every song?) so I'd concentrate on the getting the notes out a little higher up than low E. G is about 50 Hz.