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Feroce
02-26-2009, 05:53 AM
For anyone that wants to know the history of JBL and the stories behind the speakers you can visit my website at http://www.edstephens.com/jbl_speakers.htm (http://www.edstephens.com/jbl_speakers.htm).

Have a good one:)
Ed

Ian Mackenzie
02-26-2009, 06:12 AM
I like your web pages and would not depart on the basis on what was a strange turn of events.

Some people of late have a lot to say but they are piss and wind when you get right down to it.(more piss than wind..trust me:rotfl:)

Those 4343s are really nice.

I built a pair of 4343 around the time you bought yours.

These days a life time hardly means forever and people live longer today than they did back in 1979. I mean if you owned them for 15 years and you croaked it most people would say you had them a life time and they would be passed on or sold. Would they last another lifetime? Probably not.

So I guess that is where warranty gets awkward.

At this point we have put new surrounds on the 2121 mid cones once and reconed the woofers twice and they are due for a third. That is not bad going for a 30 year run.

Back to the point though you appear to be popularising your story by posting it.

Sooner or later it will sound like a broke record unless you get some mileage out of it which is possibly your agenda. 4343's are otherwise dime a dozen.

You would fetch quite a lot for those 4343's if they were advertised by traders in Japan. Over there they would be more interested in the 4343's than the story though.

Given they appear to be in otherwise good order it might make a good story for an online audio magazine or one the large audio publications.

About 15 years ago I wrote an article about my JBL story in the Melbourne Audio Club magazine and it found its way into Australian Hifi Magazine because the then editor Greg Borrowman picked up on the line "nothing even comes close". This was a slogan JBL dealers if not JBL used for a while and it was pretty well a fact for many years a bit like the warranty point you are making.

So stick around.

Feroce
02-26-2009, 07:06 AM
I will never sell them. I would like to hear your story very much because my brother built a pair of 1957 JBL Harkness/C40 around 1974. He said they were a nightmare to build. I think he said it took him about two years to build (all with hand tools that he rented) He is the person that turned me on to JBL in the first place. I think I will add his story to my website. I would like to build the Paragon

Ed

Feroce
02-26-2009, 07:41 AM
How do I donate a catalog to the JBL library?

I have a 8, 1978 JBL Monitor Series catalog and the technical manual for the 5233/5234 deviding networks.

Ed

subwoof
02-26-2009, 08:20 AM
Many of us on the forum have unique manuals and publications but there is some issue with the site's architecture that prevents adding them. Something about old software / server / etc. We have been offering for 5+ years now.

When I built my first cabinet set I decided the 4530 scoop was the only cabinet that would work. Bought a used saw, converted my dads garage and spent 3 days making router templates and figuring out how to do it.

Borrowed some cash and bought 1 router and the plywood and cut out 4 of them and after some swearing and experimenting, assembled 2. Sand and wired them and hooked them up in the driveway..nice..

Noticing that I was now broke, I took the assembled pair to a used music store to put on consignment and drove the 6 miles back home to assemble the other 2. Got home and mom said to call the store: got any more?

Well I built the other 2 in record time and they lasted almost one hour in the store.

Now I went bigtime and bought more tools and made 8 - they lasted 3 days.

That was 1979 and this summer, 30 years later in that SAME garage, I will be instructing my union carpenter apprentice nephew the fine art of plywood speaker box making so he can have a sideline later on.

And maybe, just maybe, I will attempt a pair of hartsfeilds or a paragon. Always wanted to do that....:)

sub

louped garouv
02-26-2009, 08:28 AM
That was 1979 and this summer, 30 years later in that SAME garage, I will be instructing my union carpenter apprentice nephew the fine art of plywood speaker box making so he can have a sideline later on.

sub


too cool sub.... (and i don't mean -par)

a gift that lasts forever...

boputnam
02-26-2009, 09:04 AM
How do I donate a catalog to the JBL library?



Many of us on the forum have unique manuals and publications but there is some issue with the site's architecture that prevents adding them. Something about old software / server / etc. We have been offering for 5+ years now.

And, we still don't have it resolved. :(

In advance of getting things sorted out, we have lately been discussing the basic database structure. While I haven't spoken to the guys about this, I wonder if we should start gathering items in preparation for including them. I recently found a great third-party source for careful, economical scanning (with OCR) - this would be a good use of Forum funds, if people don't have the means to prepare quality copy themselves. I mean it is cheap-o - my alma mater wants all our dissertations / thesis stored electronically, so I had mine done (at a couple hundred pages with color pictures) for less than $25.

Let me walk this up the hill and see what the thinking is. It would be great to gather this stuff - people come and go so quickly here... ;)

Robh3606
02-26-2009, 09:14 AM
And, we still don't have it resolved. :(


It is being worked on. We have the FTP site back up running thanks to John Nebel and and I need a block of time to add a couple of new Forums to post the scans in. We will be back on line with this ability in short order.

Rob:)

louped garouv
02-26-2009, 09:42 AM
It is being worked on. We have the FTP site back up running thanks to John Nebel and and I need a block of time to add a couple of new Forums to post the scans in. We will be back on line with this ability in short order.

Rob:)
excellent...


THANKS!

Feroce
02-26-2009, 10:01 AM
Many of us on the forum have unique manuals and publications but there is some issue with the site's architecture that prevents adding them. Something about old software / server / etc. We have been offering for 5+ years now.

When I built my first cabinet set I decided the 4530 scoop was the only cabinet that would work. Bought a used saw, converted my dads garage and spent 3 days making router templates and figuring out how to do it.

Borrowed some cash and bought 1 router and the plywood and cut out 4 of them and after some swearing and experimenting, assembled 2. Sand and wired them and hooked them up in the driveway..nice..

Noticing that I was now broke, I took the assembled pair to a used music store to put on consignment and drove the 6 miles back home to assemble the other 2. Got home and mom said to call the store: got any more?

Well I built the other 2 in record time and they lasted almost one hour in the store.

Now I went bigtime and bought more tools and made 8 - they lasted 3 days.

That was 1979 and this summer, 30 years later in that SAME garage, I will be instructing my union carpenter apprentice nephew the fine art of plywood speaker box making so he can have a sideline later on.

And maybe, just maybe, I will attempt a pair of hartsfeilds or a paragon. Always wanted to do that....:)

sub

You are quite the entrepreneur, you did not make them just for yourself you made money to finance something you did not say what that was. Did you quit at 12 speakers? Are you a union carpenter now? If you do the Paragon I would like to see the build of that project.

Does this look like them?

Feroce
02-26-2009, 10:04 AM
And, we still don't have it resolved. :(

In advance of getting things sorted out, we have lately been discussing the basic database structure. While I haven't spoken to the guys about this, I wonder if we should start gathering items in preparation for including them. I recently found a great third-party source for careful, economical scanning (with OCR) - this would be a good use of Forum funds, if people don't have the means to prepare quality copy themselves. I mean it is cheap-o - my alma mater wants all our dissertations / thesis stored electronically, so I had mine done (at a couple hundred pages with color pictures) for less than $25.

Let me walk this up the hill and see what the thinking is. It would be great to gather this stuff - people come and go so quickly here... ;)


Could we store them on this website server for us to look at?

Ed

Feroce
02-26-2009, 10:09 AM
It is being worked on. We have the FTP site back up running thanks to John Nebel and and I need a block of time to add a couple of new Forums to post the scans in. We will be back on line with this ability in short order.

Rob:)

What format will you be looking for? I notice that the jpg files are very hard to read, maybe a PDF? I did change a pdf to a jpg on my website because I did not want anyone to copy the original for pirate use:) (the original warranty card).

Ed

hjames
02-26-2009, 10:19 AM
What format will you be looking for? I notice that the jpg files are very hard to read, maybe a PDF? I did change a pdf to a jpg on my website because I did not want anyone to copy the original for pirate use:) (the original warranty card).

Ed

no flames meant or implied ...

Just an FYI - unless you dropped it to real lo-res to make it obvious its a copy, its as easy to edit a JPG as it is to edit a PDF ... neither are real easy, but with the right tools ... piece of cake!

subwoof
02-26-2009, 10:28 AM
I have a *lot* of technotes ( the whole damn series! ) and old cutsheets that are impossible to find - I will call in a favor up the hill at cornell and see if I can get someone's dept to scan this stuff into .pdf files.

They have one mother of a pipe and I could send it to BO's .edu contact for archival.

Feroce: I made the scoops for my fledgling sound company's PA - those scoops kicked ass compared to the generic stuff that was out there. Stopped doing active PA rentals in '87 but still do engineering and custom work for the occasional installer and club.

And I didn't stop at 12 - I think 200 of just the singles went outta there. Another 100+ of the doubles and it's sister variant, the single 18 ( only 30" wide ) but most of those went into clubs. Selling cabinets allowed me to get a JBL dealership for awhile and buy all my components. And quit my (last) full time job in the summer of '84

I miss my hair though..sniff...

boputnam
02-26-2009, 11:07 AM
Could we store them on this website server for us to look at?That's the intent of the archive.


What format will you be looking for? I notice that the jpg files are very hard to read, maybe a PDF? PDF's would be the goal. They preserve detail on enlarging, and are pretty compact. Best of all, the are searchable... :)

boputnam
02-26-2009, 11:36 AM
I did change a pdf to a jpg on my website because I did not want anyone to copy the original for pirate use :) (the original warranty card).Actually, Ed, that is false sense of security.

Secured PDF's cannot be "Snapshot" or "Selected" and copied; however, anything open on a PC can be snap-shot by: <CTRL><ALT><PrtSc> and dropped into Paint. Once there, it can be edited or moved over into another software for cleaning.

You should take the jpg (or even better, bmp) into Word, and drop a Watermark across it. That is a better way to try and frustrate copying.

BMWCCA
02-26-2009, 12:30 PM
Best of all, the are searchable... :)Only if you have them in their original digitized-text form before converting to PDF or, as Bo suggested earlier, they go through the OCR process (and then lots of editing to make sense!). Otherwise they're no different than a scan as JPG in terms of being able to recognizing text for a search.

For instance, take any JBL technical manual sheet linked here in PDF form. None of the text can be captured as text so none of it is searchable. See: http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Studio%20Monitor%20Series/4333B.pdf

hjames
02-26-2009, 01:42 PM
Only if you have them in their original digitized-text form before converting to PDF or, as Bo suggested earlier, they go through the OCR process (and then lots of editing to make sense!). Otherwise they're no different than a scan as JPG in terms of being able to recognizing text for a search.

For instance, take any JBL technical manual sheet linked here in PDF form. None of the text can be captured as text so none of it is searchable. See: http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Studio%20Monitor%20Series/4333B.pdf

I deal with this all the time - the best PDFs are converted directly from MS Word and retain the original text within and are thus searchable. But what you have are scans from pieces of paper - where you need to do the OCR (Optical Character Recognition) conversion, which finds the text in the image and works best when you have nice, clean, original high-contrast documents to work from. Some of ther stuff here now (and at JBLPro) isn't quite so nice - 2nd or 3rd generation copies of an original printing, lots of grey background behind the text, maybe not laid squarely on the scanner and its all at an angle ...

Thats expensive stuff to clean up if you want it to be searchable.

Adobe acrobat writer has gotten a lot better - but there are limits based on the quality of the original.

SEAWOLF97
02-26-2009, 02:02 PM
But what you have are scans from pieces of paper - where you need to do the OCR (Optic Code recognition) conversion, which finds the text in the image and works best when you have nice, clean, original high-contrast documents to work from. .

not to nitpick, since you have some good suggestions , but OCR is Optical character recognition

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_character_recognition

JBL 4645
02-26-2009, 02:22 PM
So how does one create a pdf file?

Robh3606
02-26-2009, 03:03 PM
The rest of the images in the existing Library are Jpg's. Why don't we stick to that format for the time being??

Rob:)

boputnam
02-26-2009, 03:06 PM
...what you have are scans from pieces of paper - Scans like this are "images" - there is nothing but the image. PDF's created from document text files contain all the ascii text and can be searched and indexed.

So how does one create a pdf file?If you use a full version of Adobe Acrobat many types of files can be made to pdf's. There should be a "Create PDF" button on the menu bar, or it is found under "File\Create PDF"

hjames
02-26-2009, 03:17 PM
not to nitpick, since you have some good suggestions , but OCR is Optical character recognition

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_character_recognition
I bean doing this so long the terms have changed!

hjames
02-26-2009, 03:23 PM
So how does one create a pdf file?
On a mac, in OSX 10.5, its built in - like a built in printer driver.

In windows, you buy software from Adobe for - eh, $80 and up depending on the features you want ... (at work they buy it for me ... so I don't have to worry about such details).

At work, on my Windows XP workstation, I have it set as a printer, so I can change from the HP laserjet thats my usual printer, and just "print" to Adobe Acrobat. I also have tabs installed in MS WOrd so I can click a tab and just convert a word file to PDF.

But the PDF stuff in the Library here are just pictures of a piece of paper ...

JBL 4645
02-26-2009, 03:28 PM
On a mac, in OSX 10.5, its built in -
In windows, you buy software from Adobe for - eh, $80 and up depending on the features you want ... (at work they buy it for me ... so I don't have to worry about such details)

Gotcha, cheers. Nothing is for free these days.


Scans like this are "images" - there is nothing but the image. PDF's created from document text files contain all the ascii text and can be searched and indexed.
If you use a full version of Adobe Acrobat many types of files can be made to pdf's. There should be a "Create PDF" button on the menu bar, or it is found under "File\Create PDF"

I have Adobe Acrobat installed on the pc, I’ll take a look and see if its like you said or if not I’m stuffed, I’ll have to buy program to run.

Hoerninger
02-26-2009, 03:37 PM
Ashley, you can use OPEN OFFICE *) for Windows which is equivalent to MS Office. The printing job can be directed to a PDF-file instead to a printer.
(I do not use it as with OS/2 there are other ways too.)
___________
Peter

*) for free from SUN :)

hjames
02-26-2009, 03:48 PM
Gotcha, cheers. Nothing is for free these days.



I have Adobe Acrobat installed on the pc, Iíll take a look and see if its like you said or if not Iím stuffed, Iíll have to buy program to run.

You sir, probably have Acrobat READER - its a popular plugin/utility that lets yiou view PDFs - but you can't create PDFs with it ...

Feroce
02-26-2009, 04:59 PM
no flames meant or implied ...

Just an FYI - unless you dropped it to real lo-res to make it obvious its a copy, its as easy to edit a JPG as it is to edit a PDF ... neither are real easy, but with the right tools ... piece of cake!

no flames meant or implied

This is a very good example: Obama's certification of live birth
http://polarik.blogtownhall.com/2008/06/13/was_obamas_certificate_of_birth_manufactured.thtml
You can see a photoshop copy.

But in real life the word "copy" was just put there for JBL not me and again I don't think they care either.:) I think I will take it off and put the PDF backup.

Ed

Feroce
02-26-2009, 05:05 PM
I have a *lot* of technotes ( the whole damn series! ) and old cutsheets that are impossible to find - I will call in a favor up the hill at cornell and see if I can get someone's dept to scan this stuff into .pdf files.

They have one mother of a pipe and I could send it to BO's .edu contact for archival.

Feroce: I made the scoops for my fledgling sound company's PA - those scoops kicked ass compared to the generic stuff that was out there. Stopped doing active PA rentals in '87 but still do engineering and custom work for the occasional installer and club.

And I didn't stop at 12 - I think 200 of just the singles went outta there. Another 100+ of the doubles and it's sister variant, the single 18 ( only 30" wide ) but most of those went into clubs. Selling cabinets allowed me to get a JBL dealership for awhile and buy all my components. And quit my (last) full time job in the summer of '84

I miss my hair though..sniff...

I still have my hair it is just not as long as it used to be (I still like it long). You were kicking butt on making speakers. You said you owned a JBL dealership, where?
Ed

Feroce
02-26-2009, 05:09 PM
Actually, Ed, that is false sense of security.

Secured PDF's cannot be "Snapshot" or "Selected" and copied; however, anything open on a PC can be snap-shot by: <CTRL><ALT><PrtSc> and dropped into Paint. Once there, it can be edited or moved over into another software for cleaning.

You should take the jpg (or even better, bmp) into Word, and drop a Watermark across it. That is a better way to try and frustrate copying.

I did watermark the JPG in Photoshop layers. I just did it for fun.
Ed

Feroce
02-26-2009, 06:09 PM
I want to say thank you very much for the edit.:applaud:

I do want to say in reference to "Obama tried that with his certification of live birth". This just proves that it can happen to anyone. I did not want anyone to misunderstand I was referring to political. It is very interesting how they can do that.
Ed

Feroce
02-26-2009, 07:37 PM
subwoof
I was telling you my brother built a pair of 1957 JBL Harkness/C40 around 1974. Here is a photo of them.

Ed

John
02-26-2009, 07:44 PM
I want to say thank you very much for the edit.:applaud:

I do want to say in reference to "Obama tried that with his certification of live birth". This just proves that it can happen to anyone. I did not want anyone to misunderstand I was referring to political. It is very interesting how they can do that.
Ed


Hey do you plan on listening to RUSH on those 4343's??? :blink:

There are some paragon owners listening to HOWARD ;)

Mr. Widget
02-26-2009, 10:13 PM
subwoof
I was telling you my brother built a pair of 1957 JBL Harkness/C40 around 1974. Here is a photo of them.

EdDamn... that picture is a real time machine. :bouncy:


Widget

JBL 4645
02-27-2009, 12:11 AM
You sir, probably have Acrobat READER - its a popular plugin/utility that lets yiou view PDFs - but you can't create PDFs with it ...

You might be right Heather, I looked and looked last night like bop, mentioned I might have it on the pc, well I didnít find it. Sigh I might ask a friend if he has copy of the program its not likely he does but when I get around to seeing him Iíll ask nicely.

Nice library of JBL pictures that vintage JBL 4530 looked that up and found a whole bunch of vintage JBL subs.

Feroce
02-27-2009, 02:48 AM
Before I forget does everyone know you can go to

http://www.jblpro.com/?Language=ENG&Country=US&Region=USA

website and go to the top of the page and <click on> PRODUCTS from the drop down <CLICK ON> VINTAGE. There ia a tremendous amount of information for you to suckup and digest.:) You can <left click> and read or <Right click on> and download.
If you are still hungry <CLICK ON> DOWNLOADS and take your choice.

I am still getting stuf from here http://www.lansingheritage.org/


John
Lets not go to the "Rush" subject since the country is split down the middle that would get CLOSED.:biting:

JBL MODEL D44000 PARAGON (Patented), Finest of sterophonic speaker
systems, the PARAGON was developed to provide a master monotor in
perfecting sterophonic recordings. The exclusive curved acoustic refactor
panel creates the startling realism of sterophonic sound for each listener
in the room, regardless of seating position. There is no "hole in the
middle," no "split soloist" to mar the illusion of a live performance.
The JBL PARAGON contains two LE15A low frequency transducers, two 375 high
frequency drivers, two H5038P horns, two 075 ring radiators, two LX5
networks, and two N7000 networks. Furnished in Oiled Walnut or Tawny
Walnut. 35-1/4" x 103-5/8" x 24-1/16" deep. Complete integrated stereo
loudspeaker system.................$2250.00

Don't you wish you could buy one today?
Ed

opimax
02-27-2009, 03:36 AM
OT I still have one of those uncomfortable chairs (not the one being used) :D

Mark

subwoof
02-27-2009, 05:23 AM
One time I made a set of 2 "lowboy" scoops like your brothers for a club install that wanted combination sub/drinktable/furniture for a lounge area. I made 4 more for the dance floor area but upright.

Used P/S oak plywood, solid oak inlays ( and lips ) for the edging and some beefy hardwood "buttons" so they could be pushed around without damage. Kickproof 10ga ex metal behind the cloth and installed E145's in them.

MAN they worked well. the club owner cut drink coasters from industrial grade shelf liner ( that special foam rubber ) to keep the drinks on them and putty'ed the coasters and vase.

The club went under ( of course ) and those cabinets moved from club to club to club for years - I heard that 2 are in a doctors living room last summer.

My house has solid mahogany trim and I plan to make a pair to match when the shop gets running again. I still have those router templates and jigs so it's about 5 hours each ( in a batch of 8 ) for the assembled cab ( no veneer ).

go back jack and do it again. man i miss making the bigger cabinets. my back doesn't...:)

sub

Feroce
02-27-2009, 10:31 AM
Subwoof
You have been making a LOT of speakers in your time. Now is the time for the Paragons.

Boputnam
We talked about .JPG or .PDF. I think we came up with the answer to be .PDF. My example to copying is a joke because we don’t care about originals and changing them (no don’t change them). I put two documents on my website in .PDF format. My new printer is an Epson CX9400fax, I scan and save it as PDF. I only have Acrobat READER and I cannot edit them but I also cannot copy/paste either. I have been able to copy/past before when I had my HP printer. If someone has Adobe Acrobat (hjames) please see if it works properly.

I can search, copy and paste all the PDF documents on JBL's website with Acrobat READER. http://www.jblpro.com/products/vintage/index.html

John
I did not answer your question, I just spun it. The answer is NO. I have the cabinets in a room that I made for the system only. I will listen to music only (no talk radio) from my reel to reel Pioneer FT-1011L and my Technics SL-1400MK2 turntable, going through my Phase Linear pre amp and amp. Right now I am using a set of Realistic Minimus-7s :) to set this all up.

Ed

John
02-28-2009, 01:06 AM
John
I did not answer your question, I just spun it. The answer is NO. I have the cabinets in a room that I made for the system only. I will listen to music only (no talk radio) from my reel to reel Pioneer FT-1011L and my Technics SL-1400MK2 turntable, going through my Phase Linear pre amp and amp. Right now I am using a set of Realistic Minimus-7s :) to set this all up.

Ed

Well thank god for that. The way I see it or hear it, you can only get positive vibes from music.:) Talk radio on the other hand is all about the negative.:(

By the way about the USA being split 50/50 ??? Hard to say but back on the first tuesday of NOV.-08 it was leaning more to one side than the other, perhaps 65/35:blah:

Feroce
02-28-2009, 01:14 AM
Well thank god for that. The way I see it or hear it, you can only get positive vibes from music.:) Talk radio on the other hand is all about the negative.:(

By the way about the USA being split 50/50 ??? Hard to say but back on the first tuesday of NOV.-08 it was leaning more to one side than the other, perhaps 65/35:blah:

Not only talk radio but TV also. I don't even have my tuner connected to the system.

Last night I was listing to my JBL Sessions LP and I could not hear anything from 20,000 down to 10,000 on my minimus -7s. I can't wait to get the speakers back and hear them once again.:D:)

Ed
EDIT: I am surprised that you are up so early. I just can't sleep I was flooded with city sewage 12/28/08 (kind of gives you a waste matter out look on life) and I still am trying to get the basement back together again. Most everything was trashed. The city got hit hard with many flooded basements and they are replacing the sewer system. Yes, the city did pay for the damages if you were smart enough to sue.