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View Full Version : ...Uh..speaking of L100's...Mr. Mcritchie...



BigBamBoom
05-20-2004, 06:04 PM
Please excuse such a goofy question, but would it be fair to say that JBL manufactured at least a million pairs of L100's??? Probably more than that? I mean....Geezz!! These things are for sale ALL the time. There has got to be a god-awlful amount of these speakers out there. Always see 'em on ebay. All the time. But more importantly.....just consider all those pairs that are in permanet homes & you don't see for sale!! Lord! I wish Altec 19's were that common!
Anyway, thank you so very much for this wonderful site. Lansing Heritage is fantastic! gonna try & turn some freinds on too it.
You are the MAN!!
Best wishes....Russ

boputnam
05-20-2004, 08:19 PM
Hey, Russ...

Cool post, dood. I love the bit 'bout the million pairs of L1:D:D's... Hilarious!

If'n yer in the mood, don't overlook the "DONATE" icon, upper right. Don's loath to mention it, but as the I-man reminds, every dollar adds to the whole. This is otherwise a labor of love by the Don.

:coolness:

BigBamBoom
05-20-2004, 09:02 PM
Cool post, ? Look at this one "dood".

Well, sure I've been a freeloader for a while, & to tell the truth I've felt rather quilty about it. It is very ironic that before I read yur reply that I'm countin' twenties......tonight...so that I may go & buy a M.O. friday morning. See , I will not put my CC # over the internet (thats jus me). Because surely L.H. , I figure, has a mailing address for folks that wish to contribute by check or M.O.
But....now, after short of being "ordered" to DONATE NOW!!..well that kinda put me off. Big time. For me it's a shame cause I still think Heritage is an awesome website. I still think Mr. Don Mcritchie is the MAN.
But it is a closed club. Members only. Outsiders NOT welcome.
Pay-up or shut-up. thats rude.
but thats also fine.....Yur post just saved me $150.00!! Sure it's not much. I'm just glad I read your reply before I went to bed.
I'm Off this forum now........I will MISS Lansing Heritage.
Despite some of the members....the info is wonderful.:(

DavidF
05-20-2004, 09:40 PM
In with one post and out with one reply, the same day. Pretty darn quick to pass judgment.

DavidF

Mr. Widget
05-20-2004, 10:14 PM
Now that's an odd response. I have never thought this forum was exclusive or money grubbing. I remember feeling rather welcomed the first time I posted.

... and hey Bo, I don't think your post was at all out of line. I took it as a simple suggestion and certainly not a demand. Too bad he went boom.

Widget

John
05-20-2004, 10:52 PM
That guy must be a ditto head:bomb:

boputnam
05-21-2004, 06:56 AM
Originally posted by BigBamBoom
Cool post, ? Look at this one "dood".

Well, sure I've been a freeloader for a while, & to tell the truth I've felt rather quilty about it. It is very ironic that before I read yur reply that I'm countin' twenties......tonight...so that I may go & buy a M.O. friday morning. See , I will not put my CC # over the internet (thats jus me). Because surely L.H. , I figure, has a mailing address for folks that wish to contribute by check or M.O.
But....now, after short of being "ordered" to DONATE NOW!!..well that kinda put me off. Big time. For me it's a shame cause I still think Heritage is an awesome website. I still think Mr. Don Mcritchie is the MAN.
But it is a closed club. Members only. Outsiders NOT welcome.
Pay-up or shut-up. thats rude.
but thats also fine.....Yur post just saved me $150.00!! Sure it's not much. I'm just glad I read your reply before I went to bed.
I'm Off this forum now........I will MISS Lansing Heritage.
Despite some of the members....the info is wonderful.:(

:confused:

Sorry if somehow that offended - odd that it would, unless typing is not your second language... :rotfl:

I wasn't even aware you'd been "freeloading" - but freeloading is not a word I've seen here before - this is a public place so that would not seem to apply. Regardless, to set the record straight, since you've gone WAY off course with baseless accusations:

1) this is not a members only, nor a pay-up or shut-up. You made that stuff up.
2) Don is one of the men, but he has some important silent partners that contribute, too.
3) I'm sorry you spite some of the members - most of us find really good value and friendships in all of them.
4) I'll personally make-up the $150 donation you offered, as somehow your needing to blame me (I guess...) for something here is a very strong emotion for you. And I would not like that to interfere with the ongoing fund raising needed to support this Forum.

boputnam
05-21-2004, 07:03 AM
Thanks, "BigBamBoom" for encouraging me - I haven't donated cash in over 6-months. Although I did secure a pair of LE5-8's that were intended for a rebuild/refurbish to enable an auction that might help fund a project May that is striving to build for Mr. Don a one-of-a-kind pair of - oh never mind...

4313B
05-21-2004, 07:32 AM
Good Grief!

boputnam
05-21-2004, 07:51 AM
Yea, at this rate, the reaction I seem to elicit from my ignoramus non-adoration of L100's will cost me a full PA... :duck:

boputnam
05-21-2004, 08:16 AM
Originally posted by Giskard
In any case, thank you very much for the contribution. :)
I'll have to make one tonight. Yea, well thanks back-at-you for contributing, too. I felt awful that something someone thought I had done could "cost" the Forum. That's just not right...

Audiobeer
05-21-2004, 08:36 AM
Originally posted by boputnam
Yea, well thanks back-at-you for contributing, too. I felt awful that something someone thought I had done could "cost" the Forum. That's just not right...

He probably was a good guy Bo.....as you know guilt can be a terrible thing and He just snapped, Plain and simple. I think it goes a little deeper however. As you know He is a fan of the L-100. I think we all know what your position on this model has been in the past. I think Your revelation on what the designer had intended on the use of the port for late night listening was a bit over the top. Your detailed explanation of why the ports circumfrence was so vital was really just a sick bit of history that some of us do not wish to believe. That being said your input into your L-100 experience was to much for the buckeye. :D

boputnam
05-21-2004, 08:42 AM
Originally posted by Audiobeer
He probably was a good guy Bo... Yea, he probably was. That's why I upheld his $150 offering...

Audiobeer
05-21-2004, 08:45 AM
Originally posted by boputnam
Yea, he probably was. That's why I upheld his $150 offering...

NOT!

porschedpm
05-21-2004, 08:48 AM
You really showed a lot of character by what you did. I think the natural tendency would have been to lash back at the person through humor, ridicule and/or humilatiion. He did make a very easy target. But you took the high road. You never cease to amaze me.

porschedpm
05-21-2004, 09:39 AM
As a new member let me just add my random observations:

- Ever since my first post a few weeks ago, I have always felt welcomed. I have spent many many hours reading hundreds of posts on this forum and never read even one post that would have made someone feel unwelcome.

- This forum does have somewhat of a club feel to it. Everyone here shares a common passion for Lansing speakers and history. As in any club there are those members that are more knowledgeable in certain areas than others but all are free to express their opinions.

- I never at any time felt pressured to make a donation. But because I wanted to be member of this fraternity (or is it a sorority) I did make a very humble donation. Actually what got me off my kiester to donate is when i saw the amount of the shortfall.

- I came into this forum as a person with great admiration for the L100's. I own two working pairs and one in restoration (admitting you have a problem is the first step towards recovery). I was 16 when the L100's first came out and to me they epitomized the sound of Rock 'n Roll in the 70's. As a teenager back then, it was THE speaker to have. Because the L100's were about as much as we could afford back then all the other superior monitor series models and the L300 weren't even possibilities for us.

- I know that the L100 gets slammed on this forum but one thing I have noticed is that everyone on the forum recognizes the historical significance of the model. To use an analogy from my line of work: Porsche has produced many models. The 911's (and especially the Turbos) are probably considered the best models in terms of performance. Nothing in the consumer range even comes close. But Porsche over the years has produced other models that were also commercial successes, namely the 356's, 914's and 944's. When I go to Porsche club events, I run into people that hold very deep rooted nostalgic feelings for these older models. Try arguing with a someone who's owned a 914 since 1975 that their Porsche's not a true Porsche. Even though everyone recognizes these models can't come close to matching the performance of a 911 turbo, No one can argue with the historical significance of these earlier models. Folks still hold a soft spot in their hearts for the earlier models. And even though, they may later get a 911, they might still keep their entry level Porsche that they had had for so long.

Just my two cents worth. Keep up the good work guys.

johnaec
05-21-2004, 10:01 AM
Geez, Bo - now you gone and done it...guess I'll have to pony up something myself, ('guilty as charged...).

One thing - I belong to a bunch of online forums, and most of them have a private "members only" forum for paid members only. This is for things like pre-auction listings, vendor discounts, etc., to make it worthwhile to be a member. 'Maybe something like that here to promote paid membership?

John

boputnam
05-21-2004, 10:10 AM
porschedpm - great post. I too have gone through a marvelous L100 phase, but still love to encourage those who've loved only them to explore the rest of the JBL lineage, particularly the 43xx series. Not that I care, only that it was real eye-opening for me. My ears are just today getting UNwaxed (damned Aussie...), so I look forward to hearing all I've been missing... ;)


And John, I'd worry if we/they made a members/contributors only area, we'd lose the fun of working with some of the newbies and brief visitors here who make us dig into our experience, our libraries and think through projects we might not otherwise have run across.

Now, when's that next L100 luvfest gonna start... :scoot:

Mr. Widget
05-21-2004, 10:11 AM
Common John, isn't this thing already the greatest!:D :D :D

Widget

johnaec
05-21-2004, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by Mr. Widget
Common John, isn't this thing already the greatest!:D :D :D

Widget OK, OK - 'guess we leave it up to the conscience... :rockon2:

John

sonofagun
05-23-2004, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by BigBamBoom
Please excuse such a goofy question, but would it be fair to say that JBL manufactured at least a million pairs of L100's??? Probably more than that? I mean....Geezz!! These things are for sale ALL the time.
Best wishes....Russ

SO...how many WERE produced?

whitese
05-24-2004, 07:20 PM
You guys could have escaped all grief if you would have just gotten a pair of L-96's...:biting: :D

boputnam
05-24-2004, 07:41 PM
:rotfl:

GordonW
05-24-2004, 09:19 PM
Hey, if JBL could make a "plus 12" kit (the M12) to make an L88 into an L100, you'd think they could've made a "minus 4" kit, to make the L100 into...


:D :D :D

Regards,
Gordon.

4313B
05-25-2004, 05:49 AM
"You guys could have escaped all grief if you would have just gotten a pair of L-96's..."

You have a point there! I had a custom pair of "Delta's" before the "real deal" even came off the assembly line and have never suffered any grief over it. :p I've still got all the components for two more pairs sitting in my basement.

"Hey, if JBL could make a "plus 12" kit (the M12) to make an L88 into an L100, you'd think they could've made a "minus 4" kit, to make the L100 into..."

The L112 Century II was the "plus 12 kit" for the L100.

Don McRitchie
05-25-2004, 08:03 AM
Originally posted by sonofagun
SO...how many WERE produced?

I was once told, and I can't remember by whom, that there were 200,000 L100's built. This seems to be about right to me. Given that the entire production occurred at the Casitas plant, which had no where near the degree of automation of the later Northridge plant, I don't see how production could have been in the one million range.

Regarding the original posts that raised this issue, I have to admit that I was perplexed by Bigbamboom's actions. To Bo, thank you for the way you handled this incident. Your rationality stands in stark contrast to Bigbamboom's irrational response.

Unfortunately, the reaction of Bigbamboom is not completely isolated. I have had a few people contact me by email to state they are leaving in a huff. Fortunately it has only been a handfull and none of the actions have been attributed to any ongoing problems that have been voiced by anyone esle.

For example, just three weeks ago, someone contacted me stating that they would not use our forum again because I have made it too complicated. He stated that Hewlette Packard has made their forums easy to use and that I must meet their standard if I am to expect anyone use our website. I tried explaining that he was comparing a non profit website with a staff of one to a $50 billion corporation with hundreds of thousands of employees. This carried no weight and the person left in a huff.

My favourite incident involved someone attempting to print out and bind our entire website and couldn't get the pages to fit on standard letter sized paper. I tried to explain that Lansing Heritage is not a book, but a website that is designed to take advantage of its interactive capabilities. I explained that there were work arounds (printing "Landscape" is the easiest). However, he would have none of it. Unless I completely redesigned our 1GB website to meet his printing requirements, he would leave. As much as it was a shock to me, he left.

Hofmannhp
05-25-2004, 08:39 AM
Originally posted by BigBamBoom (edited by HP)
............... I'm Off this forum now........I will MISS Lansing Heritage. .......:(

well guys........
the forum lost a "good for 150 bucks donation" member.
:D
But I'm sure that bigboomboom frequently takes a look as a guest...

Hi Russ :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave:

HP

4313B
05-25-2004, 08:50 AM
Originally posted by Don McRitchie
Regarding the original posts that raised this issue, I have to admit that I was perplexed by Bigbamboom's actions. To Bo, thank you for the way you handled this incident. Your rationality stands in stark contrast to Bigbamboom's irrational response.As far as I'm concerned the guy owes Bo $150. He can do the right thing by sending Bo a PM asking where to send the money to. He needs to put his money where his mouth is.

That's about all I can type on the subject before going off on another foulmouthed rant... :biting: :biting: :biting:

John Nebel
05-25-2004, 09:48 AM
Originally posted by Don McRitchie

For example, just three weeks ago, someone contacted me stating that they would not use our forum again because I have made it too complicated. He stated that Hewlette Packard has made their forums easy to use and that I must meet their standard if I am to expect anyone use our website.

Don,

I use the HP website pretty frequently and find AH a lot simpler, in particular the HP forums vs vBulletin.

John

Figge
05-27-2004, 10:16 AM
Originally posted by Don McRitchie
I was once told, and I can't remember by whom, that there were 200,000 L100's built. This seems to be about right to me.



i would have bet my money somewhere above that number...since i thought it were crawling with l100:s around. but when i think about it many of them i´ve seen in adds or at ppl:s places are 4311:s or something that´s called kit100. it was a kit u put together urself, and were sold in to mid 90:s in sweden by a company called hifikit. im shure there was something similar overseas?...

4313B
05-27-2004, 10:35 AM
Good grief! 200,000 L100's is an awful lot to suffer. Most companies would be shut down by the government for releasing that amount of toxic waste into the environment.

That said, I just figured I was seeing them everywhere because people who had them were simply passing them off to other people they no longer (or never did) considered their friends. One week Bill has a pair, the next week he sells them to Frank, a few weeks later Frank takes the L100's over to Sue's house and a month later breaks up with her AND the L100's, etc.

Mr. Widget
05-27-2004, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by Giskard
....That said, I just figured I was seeing them everywhere because people who had them were simply passing them off to other people they no longer, or never did, considered their friends. One week Bill has a pair, the next week he sells them to Frank, a few weeks later Frank takes the L100's over to Sue's house and a month later breaks up with her AND the L100's, etc.

I found the best solution was to keep my pair. As long as no speaker wire is attached they sound fine.:D

I almost asked where Bo was then I remembered... he is on a little plane flying toward the arctic circle...:wave:


Widget

Mr. Widget
05-27-2004, 10:45 AM
All this L-100 bashing makes us sound like other fora (forums). Fact is it is our secret way of keeping their value down. You've seen them go for $1200 a pair on eBay, just think what they would cost if people heard how much we like them... some forum members listen to them 6 at a time!!!


OK, enough already, soon I'll be heading back to the tree roots for another 17 years.

Widget

Figge
05-27-2004, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by Mr. Widget
$1200 a pair on eBay



holy shit!

Figge
05-27-2004, 11:20 AM
i was offered my 4430 for that price! thogh the foamsurroundings had moved on to better world.

4313B
05-27-2004, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by Mr. Widget
All this L-100 bashing makes us sound like other fora (forums). Maybe they are all as sick of hearing about them as I am.


Originally posted by Mr. Widget
You've seen them go for $1200 a pair on eBayYet more proof of the boundlessness of human stupidity.

Figge
05-27-2004, 11:37 AM
who knows...one day i might sitt here bashin´em too:D but there are worse speakers to pick on. 1200 was a little out of line in my opinion. but....as i said before...smaken är som baken.....delad. :D

4313B
05-27-2004, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by Mr. Widget
I found the best solution was to keep my pair. As long as no speaker wire is attached they sound fine.:DWell, they do look good in a museum setting. I like the blue foam grilles the best.

Originally posted by Mr. Widget
I almost asked where Bo was then I remembered... he is on a little plane flying toward the arctic circle...:wave:Well hell, this is an exercise in futility then. I post this stuff primarily for his entertainment.

Oh ok... I admit I get some entertainment value from it too. :p

boputnam
05-27-2004, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by Giskard
...I just figured I was seeing them everywhere because people who had them were simply passing them off to other people they no longer (or never did) considered their friends. Dammit Giskard!! :scold: I just peed myself, and it ain't an appropriate time for such - hell, I'm in Saskatoon, ferkrisake!!!

:rotfl:

4313B
05-28-2004, 02:42 AM
:D

delshadowrio
05-28-2004, 07:31 AM
A friend of mine just bought a roller rink/disco that has 20 pair of L100's placed on shelves with no hanging holes in them. He is converting it into a bowling alley. He offered me them for the labor of taking them down. After reading this thread I will tell him to forget it.

It just is not worth the labor:p

MM

4313B
05-28-2004, 07:42 AM
It is if you can sell them for $1,200 a pop on eBay to unsuspecting buyers!

I think Don wants to raffle a few pairs.

delshadowrio
05-28-2004, 08:55 AM
The smiley means its a joke, heck I would not pass it up for $1.00 a pair. I am not that lazy.

I cannot remember if I donated to this forum. If I cant remember then it must be time...

The advice you guys gave me on my surround replacments were excellent. I don't know if I should say 4412's on this thread though:p

MM

4313B
05-28-2004, 09:16 AM
Oh, I thought the smiley meant they weren't worth your labor to pull them all. Yeah, even I'd blow a $1 on a pair of L100's.

I think 4412's are pretty safe to mention on this forum. ;) I personally wanted to bash :bash: the Radiance Series right from the start of the very first forum but it seems no one wants to talk about them, just the ol' El One Hundreds... :rolleyes:

Mr. Widget
05-28-2004, 09:58 AM
To me that was the begining of the end for JBL.:D


Well maybe the end is just slow in comming.:eek:

Bashing JBL Radiance is like Bose bashing, there is no sport in it.


Widget

boputnam
05-29-2004, 10:46 AM
Originally posted by delshadowrio
..that has 20 pair of L100's There simply is no end to supply - infinte. Like Twinkies - they only made one batch, way-back in the day, and they keep finding them everywhere...

Hell, I think I'd pitch-in and help you clear-em out - except with that many pair the place is either on the Historic Register, or the EPA SuperFund... :rotfl:

porschedpm
05-29-2004, 06:14 PM
I agree, there seems to be no end to the supply of L100s on eBay. I'm guessing, though that we may just be seeing the same 25 pair being resold over and over and over again. People buy them, they listen to them for a while, then move on and sell them to the next unsuspecting victim. FedEx should offer frequent flyer miles for these speakers.

I've also noticed where quite a few owners have parted these out and have sold the drivers/components separately. I figure the owners have done this in the name of all things good so that at least one more L100 can't enter the afterlife and be reincarnated as anything that resembles a speaker.

boputnam
05-30-2004, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by porschedpm
I figure the owners have done this in the name of all things good so that at least one more L100 can't enter the afterlife and be reincarnated as anything that resembles a speaker. I'm laughing plenty hard, but them kinda words often brings-out those with Kool-Aid breath, so watch out! :duck:

sonofagun
06-02-2004, 05:53 AM
Guess I gotta ask:

IF you were given the job of upgrading a pair of 100s without spending big $$, what would you do? i.e. what drivers would you change or modify and/or do to the design?

Please, serious replies only!

4313B
06-02-2004, 06:19 AM
sonofagun,

Which L100's do you have? The 12 dB/octave filter version or the 6 dB/octave filter version?

I'd probably just rebuild the networks with the best parts I could find. I would probably try biased filters just to see how the LE5 and LE20 responded. Use Monster Cable or equivalent to rewire the whole system. Replace the 10285 L-Pads with the 58450 L-Pads. I probably wouldn't change any of the components. I would also have to use your blue grilles. :D

Let me know if you want me to build you a pair of biased filters for your L100's.

Mr. Widget
06-02-2004, 10:18 AM
In addition to Giskard's recommendations I would look at the tweeter as an area for improvement. I haven't given it a moment's thought so I can't make a specific recommendation, but the stock tweeters have a beamy radiation pattern and don't have great extension.

Personally I wouldn't change them. I would keep them for what they are and look at getting something a bit better for more serious listening.... I love the L-100:) but only in it's historical context.

Widget

porschedpm
06-02-2004, 10:54 AM
I've given this a lot of thought since I have a pair of empty L100 cabinets and some 2213H woofers lying around. I was thinking I could put the 4312a components in there and improve on the sound. The upside is that I may end up with an L100 that can keep up with modern speakers and retains that vintage look. The downside is that after all's said and done I should just go buy some 4312's and save myself the time, trouble, and $100 to $200. So it gets down to how much do I value that vintage look. Those blue foam grilles are pretty cool looking.

Don C
06-02-2004, 10:59 AM
What would be the difference in the sound between the 12db slope filters and the 6db slope filters? I have a set of each.

boputnam
06-02-2004, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by Mr. Widget
.... I love the L-100:) but only in it's historical context. Which means exactly what...?

This Thread is personally very painful to me. You all are out to get me, I just know it...

boputnam
06-02-2004, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by Giskard
Let me know if you want me to build you a pair of biased filters for your L100's. There was once some discussion of that for a sweet, and oh-so-deserving pair of 4313B's, but that was a long time ago, indeed... ;)

4313B
06-02-2004, 11:12 AM
Bo,

I'm ready to take that on for you. Let's go PM.

Don C
06-02-2004, 09:05 PM
The older version is more complex, so it must be better, right? No?

4313B
06-03-2004, 03:58 AM
Not necessarily better Don, just different. Which do you prefer to listen to?

"This Thread is personally very painful to me. You all are out to get me, I just know it..."

I don't know how I missed this one Bo :rotfl:

Actually, I guess I missed several posts in this thread!

"The downside is that after all's said and done I should just go buy some 4312's and save myself the time, trouble, and $100 to $200."

Well, if you consider it trouble to play around with this stuff and you don't consider it fun then I guess you should go get some 4312's...

sonofagun
06-03-2004, 06:17 AM
Sorry - don't have any L100"s - remember MANY years ago auditioning JBL's - thought the 001 system best overall even compared to the Paragon.

Thanks for responses on upgrades though.

Gotta get cranking on some grilles! :banghead:

Don C
06-03-2004, 01:03 PM
I don't have any L-100s to experiment with right now, as I have shipped them out. I would expect that the earlier networks would sound better since the drivers would not be driven with as much signal below their best frequency range. Less distortion, right?
Red is the early version and blue is the later version.