Array 1400's vs S4800

[Daytona50]

Hey guys! I am new to this forum but I have been a JBL lover since I was a kid and heard the L166 Horizons at Sam Goody's in the mid 70's. I currently have a pair of L36 Decades that were given to me. Anyway, I am dying to get a pair of really state of the art JBL's to replace my beloved Harbeth Monitor 40's in my main music system. The tonal balance of the Harbeths is fantastic in the mids and highs, but I find myself needing more dynamic capability than they are capable of (and their bass is not quite tight enough and defined for my tastes.

If one was able to get either the S4800 (I know, it may be difficult in the US) or the Project Array 1400 what would you choose. Would it be worth the extra effort/expense to acquire a pair of the 4800's? I have a really nice 100wpc Audio Research tube amp that I would like to stick with. I heard the 1400 Array in Singapore briefly and was impressed with it. I never heard the 4800, but with the same mid/high drivers, the overall characteristic is probably similar. I would greatly appreciate hearing the opinions of JBL experts. Also if there is another model that I should consider, please let me know. By the way, cosmetics are very important as the speakers will be in the living room.

Thanks.

[4313B]

Would it be worth the extra effort/expense to acquire a pair of the 4800's?

I would greatly appreciate hearing the opinions of JBL experts.If you are truly interested in an expert opinion then the answer is no. Stick with the 1400 Array.

[tom1040]

Sorry to bring up a dead thread but why the 1400 Array over the S4600?
I am also in the market.
Thanks.

[tom1040]

Sorry.......meant S4800 or S4600. Thanks!

[caladois]

First question concern the very particular design of the Arrays compare to the more classical s Cabinet... Which one do you prefer ?

[tom1040]

Either. I am more concerned with the sound. I am assuming that the 1400 go a little bit deeper in the bass than the S4600 but have heard about placement issues with them. I would be using them in a two channel setup.

Sensitivity ratings-------would a McIntosh MC 402 be enough for the 1400's? I know it depends on other factors such as room size, if you like to listen loud......but I do not want to run out of power if I want to turn it up.

I understand that the 1400's are rated to 300 rms and the McIntosh is 400 wpc, but I still have some concerns on that. I am hoping that these will be the last speakers I buy-ever.

[JoMoCo]

Either. I am more concerned with the sound. I am assuming that the 1400 go a little bit deeper in the bass than the S4600 but have heard about placement issues with them. I would be using them in a two channel setup.

Sensitivity ratings-------would a McIntosh MC 402 be enough for the 1400's? I know it depends on other factors such as room size, if you like to listen loud......but I do not want to run out of power if I want to turn it up.

I understand that the 1400's are rated to 300 rms and the McIntosh is 400 wpc, but I still have some concerns on that. I am hoping that these will be the last speakers I buy-ever.

First may you have a long life...True Hifi applications are more dependant on the room / space and how the room allows the acoustical output to be absorbed or amplified or diffracted or diffused at your particular listening position in that space...Some but not all of that can be overcome by active signal processing presently availible and getting better every year...:blink:

Your present speakers could be very responsive to different upstream electronics...But if you are committed to your macintosh you may want to listen several horn based speakers in you room and system as they have a very different presentation than non horn speakers. Other wise, consider it an adventure and be willing to buy & sell equipment for a while until you meet your own individual tastes.:bouncy:

Bottom line is that both the room and the system can make any speaker be anything from heroic to loser...just as at the dealer hifi demos can vary dramaticly:banghead:

[tom1040]

Thanks. I currently have JBL S2600 horn speakers in my room. I like them. I also have Tannoy ST50 supertweeters on board for a little bit more HF. I like them. There is nothing wrong with them. This MAY be a case of the grass is always greener..... I used to have Infinity Kappa 8.1 (still have them) in my system-I prefer the JBLs.

However, for what I understand, the 1400 Arrays are better.

[tom1040]

The S2600 speakers sensitivity is 92, I think. 6 ohms. I have them hooked to the 8 ohm taps on the McIntosh MC402. At certain times, when the mood strikes, I have had the power guards come on-with a flicker or two-nothing steady.

To those in the know-with the Array 1400 having a sensitivity of 89 and 8 ohms........what would the differences be-volume wise? More info needed?

The S2600 speakers are far & beyond better than anything else I have heard......I listen to some B & W 802D with the same electronics and I like the JBLS more...dynamics are much better and the soundstage is great.

With a great recorded CD, the S2600 really shine ---- and that is with me having a slight HF hearing loss in the left ear.

[Mr. Widget]

To those in the know-with the Array 1400 having a sensitivity of 89 and 8 ohms........what would the differences be-volume wise? More info needed?Your Mac amp uses Autoformers so the differences in impedance will not really have an effect on output power. So the difference in output between the S2600 assuming your 92 dB figure is correct and the 1400 Array will be a simple 3dB... noticeable but barely significant.

At full power your amp could power a single 1400 Array to ~113dB at 1 meter... that is pretty damned loud... the S2600 under identical conditions would achieve ~116dB. A Klipschorn would achieve between 125 and 130dB depending on content... driver failure with 400 watts would be likely for a Klipschorn.


Widget

[Titanium Dome]

Like I wrote (somewhere), the Array HF horn configuration produces better sound than the S/2600 horn's output. WAY better. I still love my S/2600s, and I'm keeping them, but it's no contest, really. :no:

The LE14H-3 does a better job with LF than the 12"er in the S/2600. If you look at the S/3100, the 15" ME150HS woofer might be a better LF driver by a tiny bit, but the LE14H-3 mates better with the Array horn configuration than the 15" woofer does with the S/3100 horn. Part of it is better networks, part is better enclosures, part is a better driver complement.

As written earlier in this thread, the 1400 Array exceeds the S4600's abilities. The S4800 is a nice step up from the S4600, but, IMO as an experienced JBL fan but not a JBL expert, the 1400 Array is still the choice I'd make.

You may respond differently after hearing them. My preference is clear. So, can you listen to them? That's the only way... :yes:

[tom1040]

Listen to them? Nope. No way w/o a trip to someplace(CA.?) that have them. But, I suspect if I like the S2600 I will like the 1400's.

I am just a little concerned about the placement issues I have heard & one owner indicating that the Mac wasn't enough for the really high levels. I just wish the sensitivity ratings were more like 92-95.:banghead:

[Titanium Dome]

Listen to them? Nope. No way w/o a trip to someplace(CA.?) that have them. But, I suspect if I like the S2600 I will like the 1400's.

Several years ago, these guys helped me locate a dealer and a deal on the Performance Series in upstate NY. I'll bet they can at least identify an audition location for you. They carry/distribute all the Harman top brands.

http://www.jpsgroup.net/index.html

I make a real effort to use authorized dealers when pursuing current product, and I've never been disappointed with the final price and attendant support.

Of course, I'm flexible, resourceful, and persistent, and that helps. :D

[tom1040]

I talked to these guys before. After an email to JBL for info on purchasing the 4338 speakers I received a phone call from them. They had no idea on where to get the 4338 since they were a sys. system dealer. Perhaps they would have the Arrays however........

[andywin]

Listen to them? Nope. No way w/o a trip to someplace(CA.?) that have them. But, I suspect if I like the S2600 I will like the 1400's.

I am just a little concerned about the placement issues I have heard & one owner indicating that the Mac wasn't enough for the really high levels. I just wish the sensitivity ratings were more like 92-95.:banghead:

You asked me the same question a month ago via a PM.

11-30-2009, 07:42 PM

Re: ARRAY 1400
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom1040
I am thinking about a pair of these. I have a McIntosh MC402 & C46. If you don't mind, I would like to ask a couple questions:
1) do you think 400 wpc is enough for these?
2) did you buy new? Was the cost reasonable?

Thanks in advance.

400 watts is more than enough. The JBL specs recommend 300. I use MF 550k monoblocks and they barely get warm. I think its more important to have an amp that doesn't fold up under load. See link below

http://stereophile.com/reference/707heavy/index1.html

I bought a pair that were a few months old and paid just under a third of the list price.

[Mr. Widget]

I talked to these guys before. After an email to JBL for info on purchasing the 4338 speakers I received a phone call from them. They had no idea on where to get the 4338 since they were a sys. system dealer. Perhaps they would have the Arrays however........All Synthesis dealers can get the Arrays... they may or may not stock the 1400 Arrays though, unfortunately most do not. :(


Widget

[tom1040]

Thanks andywin, and everyone else. Andywin, you are correct-that was what I asked you and your response. However, another person indicated he sold his Array's because the placement issues it gave the bass response of the Array's. He also indicated that I would be better off with MC501 monoblocks.

Anyway, thank you all for all the information.

[JoMoCo]

It seems your two issues are room placement and amplifier to speaker interface / headroom / dynamics. :hmm:

I would encourage you to do some of your own research on room interactions. Opinions are free over at the audio asylum.:blink: There are also professional services that will do a survey and analysis if you are unable or unmotivated. The most capable speakers shoved into a floor plan haphazardly, not prioritizing room acoustics, will never be able to really sing the way they could if optimized. :blink:

Now if you have design issues like (1) must be placed against a wall or (2)one speaker must be in a corner, it is unrealistic to expect world class bass and balanced imaging that you are paying for in a full range two speaker system. :banghead:

If you have a good room acousticaly and can place the speakers optimally, then you can move up the food chain and reasonably expect more...:bouncy:

Theoretically MacIntosh autoformers seem to be targeted for 8ohm or less speaker loads...in my experience autoformers buffer the majority of all impedance issues so if you already like the MC402 sound, its general flavor will still come through. That being said, all autoformers do have a character that they either add, modify, or take away from the signal feed to them. :hmm:

If you feel the need, I would a try an other amp of different design (non autoformer) to see how else the sound can change with your existing speakers first. Remember that your cabling will also come more into play as you move up the full range :coolness:"food chain".

[tom1040]

Interesting take on the McIntosh amps. From all the others I have used, these seem not to add nor subtract anything from the signal.

I understand the concepts you provide. Thank you. I feel the room. as is, could use a modification or two. However, this is in a family room and the WAF comes into play(just a little bit). The HT system is in a separate room.

Full disclosure: I had an organ transplant on 12/29/04. This year marks my 5th year of survival thanks to a angel organ donor and the medical staff at Mayo clinic in Florida. I thought that I would get myself a 'birthday' present.

Again, thanks to all of you and Merry Christmas!!!:)

[JoMoCo]

I am not down on Mac equipment at all. I have owned & enjoyed MacIntosh equipment in the past and they have prioritized trans-autoformer quality to achieve their design flavor.:applaud:

...You have hinted at something I have also begun to understand over the last few years. Headroom provided by "well designed efficient speakers" makes more "you are there" than does more power on less efficient speakers at normal listening levels. Of course your ears, listening room, music type, volume level and system setup are unique to you to enjoy.:hmm:

The one classic Japanese "take" is to use a smooth amp like yours and use high effiency horn speakers (>95dB) including some of the pro sound stuff that can sound a little bright / ragged on other than transformer / autoformer output amplification.:thmbsup:


Of interest may be this approach, link below, with your existing speakers if you just want more low end. I am just starting to experiment with this so it is only a suggesttion and not yet a reccomendation. Have heard others with efficient 2ways in other forums comment favorably on this approach to keep the 2way magic in play...YMMV:rockon1:

http://www.pispeakers.com/Multisub.html

[tom1040]

Thanks. I have given that a thought or two.

I am not out to build the best system in the world. I am out to listen to music with the best eq I can afford. My wife is an equestrian-costly sport. She is the reason I am alive today. Without her, I would be dead. I am certain of this fact. That, coupled with the fact that my daughter is also an equestrian & attending the Univ. of Fl. for her masters puts some pressure on the almighty dollar.

As I write this I am in Florida listening to a little system I took down when we purchased the house in July this year for my daughter & family to live in for a bit while in school. I am listening to the new mark knopfler cd on an old Onkyo Integra TX-108 and a pair of little jBL L830.

You know, this sounds good right now. Very good. I am blessed with my family & sometimes forget what is really important.

Live well everybody.

Thanks,
Tom