What Should Be Done About the "How Much Is It Worth ?" threads [Archive]

Oldmics

02-18-2009, 09:25 PM

I"ve really had it with these people who use there first,second post-whatever and go value trollin.

"How Much Is It Worth?"

Stick it on eBay and find out :banghead:

I"m not responding to any more of these kinds of fishing expeditions and suggest everybody do the same.

Oldmics

P.S. This isnt just going happening on this site.The automotive sites are worse.

Mr. Widget

02-18-2009, 11:11 PM

I"m not responding to any more of these kinds of fishing expeditions and suggest everybody do the same.At present that is the best we can do.

Widget

Titanium Dome

02-18-2009, 11:47 PM

I say require a donation to get a price quote, and ban anyone who supplies a quote before the donation is verified by Bo. In fact, put Bo in charge of the whole thing, including supplying quotes.

hjames

02-19-2009, 03:18 AM

BRAVO!!
I say make a sticky thread called "HOW MUCH IS IT WORTH"
explain in there about the shifting values and the current financial issues, mention that the best indicator is what it sells for, and suggest they post it to a sale site like AudioGawn or Ebray and "...see what happens"

Then explain that for a nominal donation (say - $20) the resources of the site are open to them - Once verified, folks could chime in ...

If no pay, then you can refuse to play with the trolls!

We should at least get a snack before they take us for a ride ...

I"ve really had it with these people who use there first,second post-whatever and go value trollin'.

"How Much Is It Worth?"

Stick it on eBay and find out :banghead:

I"m not responding to any more of these kinds of fishing expeditions and suggest everybody do the same.

Oldmics

P.S. This isnt just going happening on this site.The automotive sites are worse.

Robh3606

02-19-2009, 05:55 AM

Morning OldMics

Well I see that one got you as annoyed as it did me when I moved it to Marketplace last night. I have been asking people to not respond you months now. Thank you

Hello Widget

I have a solution. We post a warning sticky in Marketplace and when they ignore it the thread gets deleted as Spam so the user is automatically baned. It is Spam. You can see the same requests in other Forums. These guys are no different then the Nokia Phone Spam we used to get. It is unsolicited advertisements. The only thing that stopped the Nokia Spam was repeated deletions and banning.

Rob:)

grumpy

02-19-2009, 08:59 AM

Haven't touched the draft FAQ for a year, but the reason to have one in an obvious
place hasn't changed:

...

Selling/Buying

Q: How much is (fill in the blank) worth?
A: Ebay can be a good indicator of current monetary value. This site is not
a replacement for doing your homework and knowing your market. Responses
you may receive are opinion only, but may be based on some level of
experience (don't get too disappointed or excited prematurely).

...

Charging for remote appraisals seems (to me) to be an invitation for disaster.

BMWCCA

02-19-2009, 09:36 AM

Perhaps the upsurge in requests is due in part to Ebay's no longer making completed auction data available for more than one-month, unless you can search by seller or item number. I know there are on-line services that track selling prices but I don't have any experience with them. "Blue Book" type services seem to be a joke with the prices they quote on nearly anything, but especially on items I'm familiar with.

Since Ebay seems to be the accepted arbiter of "value" here, is there some way we could track JBL items of interest by item number and final bid or no-sale price, catalogued by JBL model, in some data base those who had an interest could post to? Just a thought, and admittedly one for which I'm not offering to bell-the-cat. But it may offer somewhere to point any prospective fishermen, and still bring those items of interest to this site's members' attention first. Maybe? They list the query, we point them to the Ebay archive data? :dont-know

I'm still confused about how to enter or access serial-number data for vintage systems (and that may just be me) but maybe an Ebay database could be a bit more transparent, less owner-intensive, and more accessible. Not too hard since we can search by thread—though the search function kicks out "L7" for not having enough characters . . .

Just a thought. I'll go back to electrocuting myself now. :shock:

louped garouv

02-19-2009, 12:43 PM

though the search function kicks out "L7" for not having enough characters . . .

Just a thought. I'll go back to electrocuting myself now. :shock:

google advanced search will allow you to search for very short key words in a specific web domain...

go to google,
click advanced search to the left of the main query data entry box...

BigBusa

02-19-2009, 04:34 PM

Wow, some of you guys are cranky! :biting:

If you don't want to help someone out by giving them a rough idea what their dead grandmothers speakers or amps are worth THEN DON'T REPLY TO THE POST.

It's pretty simple. :applaud:

I think you would be happy to give rough estimates because that will keep more vintage Altec and JBL stuff out of the landfill. If the new owner thinks their item is worthless they'll probably throw it out.

I almost threw out those Altec 614A cabinets but decided to put them on ebay instead. They're up to $255 with 1 day left! I figured they were worthless. Well, they are worthless... to me. You guys are the Altec collectors. You should want to see this old stuff survive. By offering a newbie a free & realistic value, you're helping keep vintage Altec and JBL out of the dump.

hjames

02-19-2009, 04:50 PM

BMWCCA

02-19-2009, 05:53 PM

google advanced search will allow you to search for very short key words in a specific web domain...Yeah, great. You go try that for searching an individual thread here and report back. :D

I was talking about storing Ebay links in one thread and being able to search by JBL model number. I'm not sure Google search would help with that.

Mr. Widget

02-19-2009, 06:51 PM

BigBusa

02-19-2009, 08:21 PM

Nobody is getting rich here, but it sounds like you made a windfall from the help you got here ...
So, how much are you going to kick into the kitty to return the favour?? 2%? 5%? 10%?
Donate button is on the top right hand side of the page ...

This site is NOT sponsored by JBL or Harman Kardon -
(FWIW, I don't get a dime out of it ...)

I did donate $10 a week or so ago. It wasn't for the help IDing the 614 cabinets... although I did appreciate that. It was because this place is cool, laid back and not run by greedy ba$tard$.

I have some knowledge & will give it freely here when I can. I've owned more altec, JBL, Klipsch etc etc etc speakers than I can count. I have learned a lot here, at other forums and from searching on the internet. I figure that it's all just information... it should be free. If you have the info in your head and don't want to give it out, then don't.

I have collected nearly every "audio" magazine annual directory since 1954. The annual directories list every single stereo item sold that year and all of the specs. There's a wealth of info in those mags. I've dug them out more than once looking for info for people on the internet.

I do miss when the Orion blue book for audio was online and had a wide open back door. Anyone remember that about 5 or 6 years ago? It was free for a few years. I used that a lot! It seems that Orion sold their website to someone else and now they want you to pay money for each used price. I think that's crazy because those orion prices aren't exactly accurate. Greed stinks. :banghead::blah::biting:

grumpy

02-19-2009, 08:34 PM

I just noticed AK has a Marketplace hole just for this.
Those not interested just don't enter. Posts of that kind show up elsewhere?
reported and moderator-moved there (as a suggestion).

BigBusa

02-19-2009, 08:56 PM

does this place really want to go the way that AK has? AK has way too many forums, it is incredibly overmoderated, every post has to be in its exact correct forum or you get a warning or suspended. AK seems to be run by someone with a severe case of OCD.

I really don't understand the big deal about a newbie asking what his speaker is worth. It happens maybe once a week here? That's not a lot folks.

If you make a special "what's my speaker worth" forum... the chances are slim that the newbie will post in there anyway. It just leads to so much extra beaurocracy. "hey newbie, you can't ask how much your speaker is worth in THIS forum! You have to go over to the "what's my speaker worth" forum! Can't you read?!"

Heck, even oldmics posted his question in the wrong forum! He put it in general discussion & it was immediately moved here. Don't the mods have enough to do now without worrying about another forum?

Robh3606

02-19-2009, 09:05 PM

Hello Grumpy

I just noticed AK has a Marketplace hole just for this.
Those not interested just don't enter. Posts of that kind show up elsewhere? reported and moderator-moved there (as a suggestion).

We are talking about that.

Rob:)

BigBusa

02-19-2009, 09:10 PM

I just noticed AK has a Marketplace hole just for this.
Those not interested just don't enter. Posts of that kind show up elsewhere?
reported and moderator-moved there (as a suggestion).

how about... if you're not interested just don't enter the "what's my speaker worth" thread that's been started by a newbie.

A forum where you have to go to ask what something is worth is crazy IMO.

grumpy

02-19-2009, 09:32 PM

I hear ya. Hang out for awhile, and watch where these threads go and how
the 'newbie' stories turn out. Your opinion may change ... or not.

Zilch

02-20-2009, 02:20 PM

Didn't we just do this?

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=23753

Mr. Widget

02-20-2009, 02:57 PM

Didn't we just do this?

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=23753Actually the topic or some derivation has reappeared every year or two. We are actively discussing options... stay tuned.:)

Widget

Oldmics

02-20-2009, 07:47 PM

Can a "bot" be setup to monitor people with 10 or less posts looking for trigger words such as how much,value,worth etc?

If so then perhaps the bot could then refer those inquirys to the How much is it worth sticky-which I could then ignore. :p

Oldmics

Mr. Widget

02-20-2009, 07:55 PM

I don't think the software is that flexible... but you hit near the core of our discussion... how to monitor without spending even more man hours moderating.

Also, if/when we make any changes, I'd like to see changes that reduce other Market Place issues that have popped up from time to time.

Widget

boputnam

02-21-2009, 06:32 PM

Can a "bot" be setup to monitor people with 10 or less posts looking for trigger words such as how much,value,worth etc?

"Everybody funny, now you funny too..."

(sorry - that <now deleted> post tickled the hell outa me...)

Hey, Oldmics...

I guess we just need ya'lls help to make us bots more effective. Best way is to Report a Post - that escalates it right to our attention. Otherwise, based upon the private bot-chat we've had on this the past week, we will be spending more time in Marketplace... :(

JBL 4645

02-21-2009, 10:10 PM

I think we should have Chat Auction Bidding Room on JBL and Altec speakers.;)

Oldmics

02-22-2009, 08:53 AM

I"m certainlly NO software creation expert but it seems that it would be relitivly simply to use the portion of existing software that automatically counts our posting numbers and mingle it with some keyword triggered software.

Counts of less than 10 posts (20 or whatever amount deemed corrrect) then automatically get monitored and searched for triggered keywords such as ,worth,value,how much,etc.

This would be the wildcard as the keywords would have to go developement to catch all of the creative posters "How Much" wording issues.

Then the program could redirect the posters question to the "How Much Is It Worth" sticky.Then participants could choose to be active or ignore.

I think the real problem would be if existing software can effectivly allow such a change.

As I said,NOT a software engineer here.

I believe this could be a precident setting situation as other sites definatly suffer from the same issues.

Oldmics

BMWCCA

02-22-2009, 10:03 AM

Seems simple, but here are some normal questions that would get bounced:

"How much power do I need to drive my L250's?"
"How much glue should I use on my new Rick Cobb surrounds?"
"How much better is the L250 than the 250ti?"

And some others we might also miss :):

"How much would I have to pay someone here to take a free pair of very tall triangular teakwood JBL speakers from my parents' house?"

"Is it worth anyone's while to help me move a huge JBL cabinet with an arched front from my parents' house? I know you value your time so I'd be happy to let you have the three sections and the speakers inside them for free if you help me move them."

"I value the assistance I've gotten on this site. It's been worth a lot to me. I can't tell you how much I've enjoyed the site and I'd like to leave you my estate in my will but I can't seem to get my post to show up to ask how to make such a bequest."

timc

02-22-2009, 11:30 AM

:applaud::applaud::applaud::applaud::applaud::appl aud::applaud:

SEAWOLF97

02-22-2009, 11:46 AM

how about... if you're not interested just don't enter the "what's my speaker worth" thread that's been started by a newbie. .

HERES A SECOND THAT AGREES WITH YOU.,BigBusa...and there is so much in life to get worked up over, that somebodys "value question" in an audio forum rates pretty far down the list ,.

BigBusa

02-22-2009, 12:46 PM

I think oldmics should be put in charge of monitoring all members with less than 10 posts. He could keep an eye on those pesky newbies who have only come here to get valuations. :)

boputnam

02-23-2009, 06:18 PM

OK, JBL'ers...

I've received some pm's, so I've modified this beleaguered thread - the Poll has been removed.

So please just post your views and ideas.

Oddly, this has surfaced as a real point of discussion.

So that my views are known:

- in the Poll, I voted "NO".
- However, in private discussions on this with the mod's, I urged we just ignore all these type posts. I had never paid any attention to them, either as a nuisance or a help.

I was doing just that, until yesterday when I tried to what I thought was the new "right thing" (which, duh, was the wrong thing and I did it poorly) - and, it bent a few things.

So, here we go, back were you were. If you care, post your cares. We will try and coordinate our actions better.

Thanks.

BigBusa

02-23-2009, 08:41 PM

I just wanted to say that I couldn't vote. None of the options are what I feel should happen.

I vote for ...Just ignore the value posts if they bother you and quit your bit%hin! :)

hjames

02-23-2009, 09:59 PM

Well, "G" has always said that the caliber of the site has lowered in the last few years - I felt the value of the site is learning what to appreciate across the various product lines, for the audio pleasure, not for the cash return.

But, WTF - I could be wrong ... (nahhh, probably not)

Fred Sanford

02-24-2009, 05:01 AM

It doesn't bother me very much. I do see how it can be a negative, as far as affecting street values and influencing folks to strip working systems and part pieces out...but that seems to fall more to the what the repliers do than what the 'site' does. Maybe a form-letter type of response, saying, "It's worth what somebody will pay. Globally-advertised auctions with professional international shipping included generally would be the best way to find out what that current value is. As a Lansing Heritage site, our primary interest lies in maintaining vintage systems as complete, working units." Etc. etc. :dont-know
I can't think of a good way for the site to control it without adding significantly to the burdens of the volunteer moderators. Again, if members think it violates any rule, there's the <!> button for that.
I really don't want to go to an AK-style zero tolerance format, where you get your hand slapped for even saying, "Hey, I've got one of those decals you're looking for, it's stuck here to the bottom of my shoe. You're welcome to it." :bash:
I'm here to gather information, and share information. Those that are here for the same seem to stick around, other folks don't. Occasionally those that want to hear themselves post a lot also stick around, even to the point of changing their names and life stories over and over again. I've found that to be a much larger annoyance than those that sail in with a Paragon and leave once it's on E-Bay.
je

boputnam

02-24-2009, 07:45 AM

...the value of the site is learning (and) not for the cash return.True, enough, Heather. There are some who come here merely to market - that is fine because "we" get to know of their sale. However, we don't want people coming here to boost their eBay sale.

That said, many here are interested that their vintage JBL stuff get's into suitable hands, to a fan. That is not about "cash return", but about knowing fair market value. But you know this - it's how you found your 4341's!

hjames

02-24-2009, 07:55 AM

True, enough, Heather. There are some who come here merely to market - that is fine because "we" get to know of their sale. However, we don't want people coming here to boost their eBay sale.

That said, many here are interested that their vintage JBL stuff get's into suitable hands, to a fan. That is not about "cash return", but about knowing fair market value. But you know this - it's how you found your 4341's!

well, the 4341s were an ebay sale from a guy who worked long days and nights and was the very devil to track down and contact ...
(very much like Bo the travelin' sound guy!)

The ebay sale closed with no bids - but I had made a connection ...
Apparently (unknowingly) Subwoof and I both were trying to connect - but for some reason I got the deal ...

And I'll sell anything else in the collection but keep them!

Unless I find a clean pair of 4345s for $2000 (!)

And a bigger house to fit them in:applaud:

BigBusa

02-24-2009, 08:36 AM

I really don't want to go to an AK-style zero tolerance format, where you get your hand slapped for even saying, "Hey, I've got one of those decals you're looking for, it's stuck here to the bottom of my shoe. You're welcome to it." :bash:

yes please do not let this place turn into the overmoderated style of AK. That place is just no fun.

BigBusa

02-24-2009, 08:43 AM

we don't want people coming here to boost their eBay sale.

I think that's not an accurate thing to worry about. I seriously doubt anyone here is going to bid up Altec products higher than the asians.

So if I came here and said... check out my altecs here (and posted an ebay link)... I doubt anyone here will be competeing with the asians for my altec. The asians pay too much because this stuff is worth 10 times the amount in their country.

And even if my posting an ebay link to show you guys an altec item on ebay did "boost my ebay sale"... is that so bad? The auction winner is only going to pay X amount for an item. My posting about the item here isn't going to make a lansing forum viewer pay more for item than if he'd found it on his own by searching ebay.

Does that all make sense?

BMWCCA

02-24-2009, 09:03 AM

Unless I find a clean pair of 4345s for $2000 (!)

And a bigger house to fit them in6" taller and 7" wider. So, times two, you'd need a house 14" wider? ;)

It's that fifty-pounds-per-cabinet weight thing that's the real bear! Of course no one here would ever want "clones". :barf: You'd have to have the real-deal.

I've made four speaker purchases off leads from this site, and one Crown amp purchase, two Crown crossovers, and one Crown tuner. Made offers on at least three more speakers that didn't work out (for which I give thanks daily). None were fishing threads, other than two of those that didn't work out (one still fishing, maybe), and one of those earned me the sobriquet of "d*ckhead bottom-feeder" from an LH member. Most were just members pointing out an item for sale elsewhere (Craig's List and Audiogon in my cases). I'm not sure anything good ever comes from those fishing expeditions here—though they seem to end up venting some cabin-fever-style frustrations. Still, I don't mind them. They might occasionally offer something of benefit to LH members, and are at the least not worth the time or trouble it would take to filter them out. IMHO, of course.

hjames

02-24-2009, 09:25 AM

6" taller and 7" wider. So, times two, you'd need a house 14" wider? ;)

It's that fifty-pounds-per-cabinet weight thing that's the real bear! Of course no one here would ever want "clones". :barf: You'd have to have the real-deal. IMHO, of course.

Clones are fine as long as they play well!
I've never been a stickler for designer tags ...

Height isn't the problem, nor depth ...

Down in the TV room I have maybe 3" clearance between the TV/DVD cabinet and the rest of the gear. I can't FIT wider speakers into the corners.

And don't say throw out the TV to get more room for the speakers ...:D

Of course they shouldn't be jammed in the corners anyway, but - its all we can do, and the price was right.
The real deal is the room is just too small for the existing speakers, much less 4345s, but we won't be in that house forever and in the meantime, I'll keep them, knowing someday I'll have room to really appreciate them!

BMWCCA

02-24-2009, 09:36 AM

The real deal is the room is just too small for the existing speakers, much less 4345s, but we won't be in that house forever and in the meantime, I'll keep them, knowing someday I'll have room to really appreciate them!I've been promising my wife the same thing for the past nine years. ;)

Doc Mark

03-05-2009, 10:07 AM

Greetings, All,

My own thoughts on this topic are fairly simple. I do get VERY tired of folks that really have no interest in JBL, or Altec, items, except to learn the "value" of something that they want to sell as soon as possible. Please don't get me wrong about this. My main beef is that the vast majority of such folks join LH, then fabricate some cock-a-maimy BS story about how this JBL/Altec item belonged to their late Father, and how it has such sentimental value to them, and how they want to restore it to it's previous grandeur...... Oh, and by the way, "how much is it worth?"!! The disingenuous behavior is a real pain in the butt, as far as I'm concerned. If they had signed on, gone to a special forum where such things are permitted, and simply said, "I have such and such, or so and so, and would love to sell it. What sort of price should I ask and how much is it worth?", I really wouldn't have a problem with that. But, as no such place exists here at LH, we have to put up with the BS stories, sometimes wasting quite a bit of our own time educating the seemingly interested person, only to find out that they are just trying to sell something, and don't give a big rat's frosty crank about learning anything about JBL/Altec!! That does frost my cookies, sorry to say. So, for what it's worth (no pun intended!), I'd love to see a place where those seeking "value" info, could go and post their queries. Anyone who wants to jump in and help them, can do so, and the rest of us don't have to wade through the "Cecil B. DeMille" BS story (with a cast of thousands...;)!) and thereby waste our time. Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

Feroce

03-07-2009, 08:55 AM

This is the first time I have seen this thread. I have been spending 99% of my time next-door in the library just awed with information. I have not had time to read threads because I don’t have much knowledge about JBL except I have owned and enjoyed my speakers very much. I quit looking for stereo equipment a long time ago because I had the best at the time and what I don’t know won’t hurt me when I m happy with what I have. I wish I could have just read this thread first when I joined the forum I could have done things a lot different. I did not know the animosity against newbie’s asking how much.

I am guilty I apologize.
Ed

Titanium Dome

03-07-2009, 10:16 AM

Ed, I'm not sure you need to go there. With 25 posts under your belt you've already passed the "test" (whatever that is) of not posting two or three times, getting your info, selling your stuff off the site, pocketing your money, and disappearing.

4313B

03-07-2009, 10:22 AM

I have been spending 99% of my time next-door in the library just awed with information.Easily by far and away the best part of the website. Too bad it was left to languish after all the great submissions from JBL, both current and former, as well as alot of generous forum members. It is a real hassle to keep up with though, especially all by one's self.

Mr. Widget

03-07-2009, 10:50 AM

Personally I don't understand the animosity toward people asking this question. It seems perfectly logical to go to a discussion group where there are "experts" to find out any information about something a person may own and want additional information on.

The moderators discussed at length several options for reducing the problems associated with newbie and other's questions in the Market Place. Unfortunately all of the solutions that were seriously discussed would take more effort to implement and enforce than our part time voluntary moderation staff could keep up with.

For now I guess we'll continue with the semi-dysfunctional approach of a number of members living by an unwritten rule where they will be rude to newbies with these questions and others will try to help them. I would hope that those who are not keen on helping out folks who they deem unworthy would just keep mum.

Widget

Ducatista47

07-25-2009, 08:25 AM

This is an angle on "How much is it worth" threads that I had not thought of.

Be very cautious of any non-For Sale thread posts where someone says something like: "I'm thinking of selling my XXXX . How much do you think I can get for it?" This can often be bait designed to get people to quickly respond via email or PM hoping to be the first to scoop an item before it officially goes up for sale. A scammer can sell the same item many times over to different people this way, without any public posting to tip everyone off. It is from Head-fi, a much larger site with dedicated sales threads of various types (and obviously much larger admin resources). So this problem may never visit us. Read that: we are not worth the trouble/effort.

Check the stickies out for a different take on sales forums. I found the "Commercial sales not allowed" sticky to be very focused. It narrows the specific forum to friendly sales among forum members and forbids flippers. Not for us, but interesting.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f10/

Clark

Steve Schell

07-25-2009, 02:02 PM

Thanks for waking up this thread, Clark. I had missed it up til now.

Mostly I think that the questions posed by people who have stumbled onto something are no big deal. The times I've gotten upset are when someone has posted under false pretenses. One time a guy said he wanted to restore an old theatre system. As soon as I told him what he had and its value, it popped up on ebay. I busted his chops over this and he later apologized.

The internet is a valuable resource and a guy who finds an old hunk of gear and comes here to find out about it is just using an available tool. The big picture is (usually) that the piece has been rescued from destruction and is on its way to an appreciative new owner.

Sometimes the questions posed and pictures posted add value to these forums. I often have fun blathering on about the history, so I hope that we don't chase these folks off.

Ducatista47

07-25-2009, 07:47 PM

Steve, your "blathering on about the history" is among the most valuable and interesting material on the forums. Whatever evokes it is better than all right with me.

Clark

Old curmudgeon

07-26-2009, 07:23 AM

There have been frequent references to AK. A fellow posted a thread there about his "great find" complete with fabulous pictures and a majestic tale about how much he was going to treasure them. Of course, much praise and great information flowed forth about the items.

And of course, less than a week later, they showed up on eBay complete with some information that was garnered from the replies.

I only wish that people would indicate their intent to sell, resell or flip prior to asking for valuations.

robertbartsch

07-27-2009, 05:10 PM

I really don't understand why a new member can't ask others here how much a vintage system or component is worth. Exactly what is the concern?

I have NO problem with this and I am surprised to see others objecting to this.

If one of the objectives of this site is to promote the restoration what is wrong with folks trying to obtain information about the value of their equipment?

What about those folks who find items for sale on Fleabay and use this forum to announce the sale to others here - "Hey L300s located in Boston being sold on FLeabay - see this listing...."

What about those folks who claim they know without any evidence that a certain listing is bogas, "Scammer such-and-such is tryiing to scam people on a pair of Paragons"