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Vintage Spk
02-19-2009, 04:25 PM
Hi all, I was given a set of L222 3 yrs. ago. Nothing wrong with them, just am wondering if there a recommended set of 3-way crossover off-the-shelf that can plug-n-play right into the L222 to replace the originals? Be nice to be able to merge the stock L-pad to adjust the highs and Mids…but can do without, power handling of 300 - 400 watts, and as long as it’ll make the original component speakers really sing as they should, or bring them few notch up. :)

BMWCCA
02-19-2009, 04:59 PM
Hi all, I was given a set of L222 3 yrs. ago. Nothing wrong with them, just am wondering if there a recommended set of 3-way crossover off-the-shelf that can plug-n-play right into the L222 to replace the originals? Be nice to be able to merge the stock L-pad to adjust the highs and Mids…but can do without, power handling of 300 - 400 watts, and as long as it’ll make the original component speakers really sing as they should, or bring them few notch up. :)I don't get it. Are you trying to improve on something that's working properly, or repairing something that is not? What's wrong with it the way it is now? :confused:

Zilch
02-19-2009, 08:07 PM
JBL crossovers are designed for specific systems.

To presume that anything "Off-the-shelf" would comprise an improvement is naive at best, somewhat akin to suggesting that there's nothing more to speakers than random drivers stuck in a box.... :biting:

Vintage Spk
02-19-2009, 10:18 PM
Am powering them with 250wpc Carver TFM amp. I think the active and passive woofers does not sound as tight as they should (little muddy).
Plus giving its age, maybe the origonal cap. or crossover may be due for change.

Zilch
02-20-2009, 12:44 AM
Check the surrounds on the drivers and passives.

You can also retune the passive radiators, but I believe L222 would be already set to more punchy than extended bass in stock form.

Network is here:

http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Technical%20Sheet/L222%20ts.pdf

Or here, depending upon which vintage variant you have:

http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Technical%20Sheet/L220A%20ts.pdf

More:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=5630

grumpy
02-20-2009, 07:21 AM
IIRC, the L222 "Disco" was identical to the L220 "Oracle" with less weight on the
passive radiator ??? More boom could be interpreted as 'muddy'. I'm sure
someone here has posted the difference in number of fiber discs loading the PR
of each model... I'd guess room or taste mismatch before assuming a speaker/
crossover problem (although the mid L-pad apparently was underrated initially
and could burn out ... mids being out to lunch could also cause 'muddy' bass).

:blah:

Vintage Spk
02-20-2009, 11:19 AM
Thanks all for taking the time to reply :bouncy:, you guys are awesome!!!

Current speaker condition:
All active & passive woofer surrounds replaced (maybe 5 yrs ago?)
Both Mids working properly
Mids L-pad replaced 2 yrs. ago to higher wattage
Nothing on the corssover board appears cracked, leaking, burnt

Others:
Speaker location changed few times
Mono blocked two Carver TFM to 2x the wattage (500wpc)...only more highs, mids, bass....but bass still not as clean as it should.


I often see ppl. on this forum mod. the HF (adding 075, 077) or Mids (to horn). But my issues are the un-tight mid bass response. And these L222A are the only "large" JBL I can afford this time (free), so am trying to mod. and able to replace all back when wishing to enjoy the original factory JBL sound.

Options:
Add more weights to tune the passive to play lower hertz, but what I feel the speaker is lack something that a 10" or 12" woofer would produce (tight mid-bass). By tuning it lower, I'm still missing the mid bass.

Add an enclosure atop the L222 and borrow the 12" 123A-1 out from my L88? But then how do I merge it into the crossover make it 4 way??? :( Or is there a better JBL 8" or 10" woofer recommendation from same era?

rdgrimes
02-20-2009, 11:37 AM
I'd have to say than any of the mega-box models with 12" passive radiators will tend to have a unique sound that some will describe as "muddy". Certainly not a flat response below 100Hz.
My auto-setup enalyzer and PEQ tends to want to attenuate these speakers by anywhere from 5-10db in the 40-80Hz ranges to achieve a flat response. They are designed to put out massive amounts of bass.

I think one is better served to either love them or leave them, and not mess with a classic vintage speaker beyond putting them in peak condition. Most of what you are hearing is the huge box and inherent nature of a sealed passive-radiator system. Best advice I could muster would be to stuff more damping material in them.

Zilch
02-20-2009, 11:50 AM
Stick LE14H-1 or H-3 in them; ~$600 a pair unless you get REAL lucky.

I hesitate to suggest H-4, due to availability, but they'd be most likely to solve your "issue."

Robh3606
02-20-2009, 12:27 PM
If you want to tighten up the bass all you have to do is remove the 15" passive radiator and in it's place put a plywood disk with a tuned port in the middle. That will make it a much better sounding box. Just tune it to 30hz or so. You can do that with any of the larger box passive radiator designs. With the larger volumes in these boxes you can end up with a really solid and extended low end. Especially with a 128h or an Le-14.

Rob:)

4313B
02-20-2009, 12:34 PM
If you want to tighten up the bass all you have to do is remove the 15" passive radiator and in it's place put a plywood disk with a tuned port in the middle. That will make it a much better sounding box. Just tune it to 30hz or so. You can do that with any of the larger box passive radiator designs. With the larger volumes in these boxes you can end up with a really solid and extended low end. Especially with a 128h or an Le-14.... what Greg said some twenty years ago...

No, I'm not kidding... and at least 20 years ago... pert near verbatim...

I hesitate to suggest H-4I think that's way too big of a box for an LE14H-4. Besides, Americans like bucket loads of bass so the LE14H, LE14H-1 or LE14H-3 would be the better bet. For the extra goofy Americans who "think outside the box" the W15GTi would be an even better bet with 55 gallon drum loads of bass. Super-size it.

Zilch
02-20-2009, 01:29 PM
I forget there's a 15" cutout there, also. Once you decide to abandon the PR for porting, lots of options become available.

[Will 1500AL-1 fit? How 'bout dual H-4s...? ;) ]

Vintage Spk
02-20-2009, 02:30 PM
I’ll try the stuffing of more damping material to calm the bass first.

Removing the 15” passive and cap it off sounds good too (will do best as non-invasive internal build so can revert to original L222 condition), but making it seal enclosure.

What internal volume is required on these stock LE14H for sealed application? But then would it sound like a L99 or L65 (which neither I heard before, just thinking it might based on visual)?

Or is there a cheaper cost vintage JBL 15” woofer (1500AL is WAY too costly) I can drop-in where the passive is, and cap off the 14”?

grumpy
02-20-2009, 02:33 PM
... crossed over high enough (800Hz?) that I think you'd want to keep the active driver
up near the mid. What does this cab offer in volume... 6.5ft3 ?