Help - recommend some drivers for JBL project

[xanax]

Ok, so my dad is a long time JBL nut and even went as far as building his own Paragon back in the late 1970s. I’ve built a few speaker boxes with him over the years and would now like to build what will be my “final” system with nicely finished cabinets that I’ll keep forever and always have the memory of working on with him.

That said, here is what I’m looking to accomplish. This system will be used mostly for listening to music in a room that is about 18’ x 22’. I’d like to build two boxes, each a three way system. I’m somewhat size limited because of my wife, but with some bribery I could probably talk her into boxes that are maybe 2’ wide, 2’ deep, and maybe up to 4’ high but that would be a stretch. I’d like to hear some recommendations as to what drivers to use in this system. I’m open to using vintage, modern, or some combination, all JBL of course. For high frequency I’ve always been partial to the look of the 075s that are in my dad’s Paragon but that is just based on looks and if there are better choices I’d like to hear about them. For midrange I don’t know where to start so I’d appreciate any recommendations. For the lows I’ve been checking out the LE15A, 2245H, 2226H, or possibly even a 2206H if I decide to go with a lot smaller sized system. I’m open to other options also; these are just the drivers I can get fairly easily. I’m not sure if the 2245s would be overkill or not for my application and the 2235s look like a good choice as well but are not as easy to find as the 2226s.

So I’d like any opinions as to what system you guys might put together and approximately how big of a box I’d be looking at to hold it (if you have that info).

[Woody Banks]

Here are a couple of beautiful four way systems that you may or may not have seen.
John W is using a combination of old and new drivers: 2245,2202, 2435HPL and 2407. The cabinets are 28.25"x45.5"x18".
The second system was posted by Mr. Widget. It is using the JBL Sub 1500 with TAD components. I am currently working on a design the uses the Sub 1500, ME120HS, 2435HPL and 2408. I hope to turn horns like John W and build cabinets like Mr. Widget. You could drop the 2408 and have your three way.:D

Woody

[timc]

OMG. That Widget speaker looks awesome! He sure knows how to work that wood :)


-Tim

[Robh3606]

What's your budget?? That is going to determine what you can and cannot do. Using older drivers is all well and good however you are going to want to probably recone them. That way you have brand new drivers. A good investment if you plan on keeping the system a long time. You would need suitable cores and recone kits.

If you want to build a pair of 2235's you could use readilly available 2225 cores and install fresh 2235 kits. That would run you $400-450 for the pair maybe a bit more or less depending on curent pricing. With compression drivers you would re-diaphram the drivers as another example.

Rob:)

[jlharden]

Great looking speakers! Anyone know what horn is used in Mr. Widgets speakers?

[Mr. Widget]

Anyone know what horn is used in Mr. Widgets speakers?I have a pretty good idea. ;)

They are mineral filled cast resin horns. The basic geometry was copied from the TAD TH-4003. The drivers behind them are the TAD TD-4003.

Posting my speakers in this thread is a bit of a stretch since the original post was looking for JBL suggestions. I can say that the unobtainable JBL 476Be is very similar to the mid driver I am using... and I am using a JBL 15" woofer.


Widget

[jlharden]

Hi Widget,

Yeah, I thought you might know! So, a one-off custom job? They look great! I'm looking for a big horn to cover 800hz and up, and I'm leaning toward vintage Altec 511B's. I haven't pulled the trigger yet though, and still looking for ideas. I have a few good comp drivers here, but might try the Great Plains 902-8B's or the TAD TD-2001's if I find a deal. I also have some mint 077's if I want to supplement the top end. Lots of good choices. More studying to do......

[Russellc]

What's your budget?? That is going to determine what you can and cannot do. Using older drivers is all well and good however you are going to want to probably recone them. That way you have brand new drivers. A good investment if you plan on keeping the system a long time. You would need suitable cores and recone kits.

If you want to build a pair of 2235's you could use readilly available 2225 cores and install fresh 2235 kits. That would run you $400-450 for the pair maybe a bit more or less depending on curent pricing. With compression drivers you would re-diaphram the drivers as another example.

Rob:)
Just had a pair done, you are right on the money part, a tad over 400.

russellc

[Russellc]

Hi Widget,

Yeah, I thought you might know! So, a one-off custom job? They look great! I'm looking for a big horn to cover 800hz and up, and I'm leaning toward vintage Altec 511B's. I haven't pulled the trigger yet though, and still looking for ideas. I have a few good comp drivers here, but might try the Great Plains 902-8B's or the TAD TD-2001's if I find a deal. I also have some mint 077's if I want to supplement the top end. Lots of good choices. More studying to do......
Try some of the JBL waveguides in place of the 511B horns. I used the little screw on one thats $9.90 a piece. The constant directivity imaging is smashing. It out performs my 511B horns in every regard, except "imaginary gonadatrophic effect" (which is an effect discovered by Zilch), and of course, the 511B is allegedly a 500 hz horn, while the wave guide I am refering to is a stretch at 800 hz. Frankly, I feel the 511B is more like a 800 to 1000 hz horn. I am using it with 2235H and 2425H (or Selenium ti 220), obviously a 2- way, but I have thoughts of 2123H mids! Got a nice pair that needs used!:blah:

Russellc

[jlharden]

I'm looking to cross in the 7-800hz range, so it does limit the horn choices a bit. I have some 2123's loaded in conical midhorns, but trying to simplify that setup into a 2-way plus subs. I like what the 250hz xo point did with regards to woofer/mid xo point by adding the midranges. I hope to retain some of that magic by maintaining a relatively low xo event between the 2226 woofers and comp drivers. We'll see. All the arrangments seem to have advantages/disadvantages. All comes down to which trade off's are acceptable.

[sonofagun]

Wow, seems like everybody's jumping in with recommendations, but has anybody asked the OP:

1 - What kind of music will you listen to?

2 - How loud do you want it to play?

3 - What electronics will drive it?

[Russellc]

Wow, seems like everybody's jumping in with recommendations, but has anybody asked the OP:

1 - What kind of music will you listen to?

2 - How loud do you want it to play?

3 - What electronics will drive it?

He suggested several drivers he was looking at, most of the suggestions seemed to be based on the direction he was going. So Xanax, what's the answers to 1,2, and 3?

Russellc

[xanax]

Wow, seems like everybody's jumping in with recommendations, but has anybody asked the OP:

1 - What kind of music will you listen to?

2 - How loud do you want it to play?

3 - What electronics will drive it?


Ok, thanks for all the responses so far I've been away for a few days and unable to get on. Answers for the questions above:

1. A pretty wide variety, mostly house and other electronic music or hard rock. But I also listen to classical, popular, heavy metal, classic rock, and even some old school rap

2. This is how loud I want it to play: back in high school I had a friend who was big time into car audio. He had the loudest stereo of anyone in my school, two 12" woofers in a pickup truck you could hear him from blocks away. One day he came over to my house and I got his bass CD out of his car and told him to come inside. I turned on my dad's Marantz amp and put the CD in the player and turned up the volume and we stood there in front of his Paragon as everything in the house vibrated and the bass felt like it was pounding you in the chest. I looked over at my friend and he was standing there with his mouth hanging open. All he said was 'holy shit' and later that day he went out and bought more expensive subs, a set of midrange and tweeters, and a more powerful amp hehehehe. He was a straight up bass guy that was all he cared about but what I loved about my dad’s system was how loud and clear the sound was in the mids and highs too. I'm looking for impressive sound here.

3. Right now the only amp I have sitting around is an old Technics SU-V85A but I'm not opposed to picking up something new for this project.

I did some checking around this week and a friend of mine can get me a pair of 2226 or 2035 for maybe 30% less than it would probably cost me to pick up a pair of 2235s or 2245s on ebay. I don’t mind spending some money on this system but I don’t want to spend 30% more than I have to if I'm not going to get a significant and noticeable difference out of doing that. The other thing is I know this guy and god only knows what you are going to get buying off ebay. What are some opinions, will the 2226 or 2035 give me what I’m looking for or do I need 2235s or 2245s?

From checking on ebay it’s pretty clear to me that the 375 midrange drivers from the Paragon are way out of my price range so I’d love to hear some recommendations for the midrange. Is driver/horn midrange the way to go over a cone type?

I’m not opposed to making it a 4 way system either, what are the advantages or disadvantages of going that route?

Also, I’ve got a few cabinet designs in mind besides the traditional setup with all drivers facing the front. Would there be any drawbacks of setting up the 15” or 18” woofers as side-firing or down-firing and then have the high frequency, midrange, and maybe an 8” or 10” woofer facing front?

[Mr. Widget]

From checking on ebay it’s pretty clear to me that the 375 midrange drivers from the Paragon are way out of my price range so I’d love to hear some recommendations for the midrange. So what is your price range... and how loud do you hope to play your system?

A Paragon with a hundred or so watts will get quite loud though the bass is actually somewhat limited.


Widget

[sonofagun]

I'd recommend the 001 system in a proper enclosure.

Wish I had some!

[xanax]

So what is your price range... and how loud do you hope to play your system?

A Paragon with a hundred or so watts will get quite loud though the bass is actually somewhat limited.


Widget

I'd like to spend a max of $250 each for the midrange drivers. I can spend more if I need to but only if I really need to.

I like to play it loud but I'm not overly concerned with that because these speakers will be much better than what I have right now and the set I have now gets plenty loud. I'm looking for overall sound quality and impressive bass.

[Mr. Widget]

I'd like to spend a max of $250 each for the midrange drivers. I can spend more if I need to but only if I really need to.That really limits your options. There is a fellow who seems to regularly have the 2435HPL driver available on eBay. They typically sell for sub $250. How he gets them and is able to sell them so inexpensively makes it an ethical dilemma for many of us, however quite a few folks here have purchased these from him and have been happy. You can't ever be sure of the actual quality of a used pro audio compression driver. I'd buy them with the assumption that they need repair work, however, as I said, many here have bought them and have been quite satisfied. Do realize that if you do need to repair them, the repair will likely cost more than the driver as these are $1200 drivers.

Alternatively you can pick up beat looking 2440s for $400 a pair. These are the same driver your dad's Paragon had in it, but in a gray color and sold to the pro audio market. If I was buying any used 2440 I would at a minimum replace the diaphragms with new JBL factory originals... these cost about what you are willing to spend on the entire drivers.


I'm looking for overall sound quality and impressive bass.For impressive bass, there are several JBL options. The 2245 in an 8 cu ft box would be my first choice. This would require a 10" or 12" midbass driver though as the 2245 is best crossed over at 300Hz or below and even if you had a compression driver that could go that low... the horn would earn you a divorce.


For high frequency I’ve always been partial to the look of the 075s that are in my dad’s Paragon but that is just based on looks and if there are better choices I’d like to hear about them.I like the look of it too... unfortunately almost any tweeter is better. There are a number of people who swear by them, but the number who swear at them is significantly greater. If you look at some of Zilch's threads on waveguides he promotes the idea of using drivers like the 2435 without a tweeter... that is not my preference, but it might work for you and would save some money. Alternatively, I'd look at the 077/2405 or some of JBL's or other brands of contemporary tweeters.


Widget

[xanax]

That really limits your options. There is a fellow who seems to regularly have the 2435HPL driver available on eBay. They typically sell for sub $250. How he gets them and is able to sell them so inexpensively makes it an ethical dilemma for many of us, however quite a few folks here have purchased these from him and have been happy. You can't ever be sure of the actual quality of a used pro audio compression driver. I'd buy them with the assumption that they need repair work, however, as I said, many here have bought them and have been quite satisfied. Do realize that if you do need to repair them, the repair will likely cost more than the driver as these are $1200 drivers.

Alternatively you can pick up beat looking 2440s for $400 a pair. These are the same driver your dad's Paragon had in it, but in a gray color and sold to the pro audio market. If I was buying any used 2440 I would at a minimum replace the diaphragms with new JBL factory originals... these cost about what you are willing to spend on the entire drivers.


thanks for the info, I may look into getting the 2435HPLs. What do you think of the 5" cone type midranges like the LE-5 or the 104H? Would these provide good mids assuming I build a 4-way with some 8" or 10" speakers to provide the midbass?



For impressive bass, there are several JBL options. The 2245 in an 8 cu ft box would be my first choice. This would require a 10" or 12" midbass driver though as the 2245 is best crossed over at 300Hz or below and even if you had a compression driver that could go that low... the horn would earn you a divorce.

I like the look of it too... unfortunately almost any tweeter is better. There are a number of people who swear by them, but the number who swear at them is significantly greater. If you look at some of Zilch's threads on waveguides he promotes the idea of using drivers like the 2435 without a tweeter... that is not my preference, but it might work for you and would save some money. Alternatively, I'd look at the 077/2405 or some of JBL's or other brands of contemporary tweeters.

Widget

I'm leaning towards either the 2245 or 2235 although I may have a deal on a pair of 2035HPLs from a friend that is too good to pass up. I would be getting them cheap enough that I could see how they sound and if I'm not happy with it move on to one of those other two drivers.

That sucks about the 075 although not using it will probably save some cash since it looks like a nice pair of them will run $600+

[BMWCCA]

That sucks about the 075 although not using it will probably save some cash since it looks like a nice pair of them will run $600+Guess you have yet to price the 077 or other alternatives then! But, if you're familiar with the 075 in your Dad's Paragon, you already know what it's like, right? So, do you like it?

You wouldn't be the only one here using them in a modern/reproduction project: http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=20772