My L250 project

[rdgrimes]

I figured I'd prolly have more than one question on my newest project and the search isn't getting me anywhere.


Problem number one:

The rear plate for tweeter access on one cab is refusing to budge. the other cab was difficult but I managed to get it out with minimal damage. This one is giving every indication of wanting to come out in pieces. I've run a blade most of the way around it but the gasket/seal is frozen solid.

My first thought is to run a couple large wood screws with the tips ground off into the existing holes to try to force the plate up and out. I tried anchoring larger screws in the holes and pulling on them with no success.

The pine screw flanges in the cab that the plate fastens to are not overly robust, so I'm also concerned about damaging them, although they could be replaced.

HELP!

[JeffW]

Maybe a little shot of heat from a heat gun will soften up whatever is sticking them up.

[rdgrimes]

I can't get the thing warm enough to make any difference. 3/4" board just doesn't absorb heat.

I'm tempted to try a little H2O.

[JeffW]

Can you screw a couple of little expansion screws into a couple of the screw holes in the cover? Might give you a handle to wiggle on. Mine were tight as heck as well, and all I wanted to do was see that they were the correct drivers.

[Andyoz]

I had similar trouble and used a broad metal painters spatula to prize it open (is that what you call them in the US?).

That way, you can apply pressure over a larger surface and not do any localised damage.

[rdgrimes]

I've already got the board split in a couple spots from prying on it. I put heat to it for a good 30 min too, and hammered a drywall blade into the cracks all the way around. It just flat will not budge.

I tried flat-tip wood screws driven into the screw block behind but they just chew into the screw-block and don't lift it. The board is too flaky to try pulling much on a screw, but that's prolly next. I need some kind of a lever that I can screw into the board to pry up with. My main goal is to not damage the cab, I'll likely wind up sacrificing the board.

[BMWCCA]

I don't know how the cabinets are constructed. Are the HF and the midrange in they're own compartments, or can you pull one or both and get your arm in there to remove the 044ti and then beat the panel out with a blunt tool or board? IIRC, the LE14 has its own sealed compartment so you can't go that way.

[rdgrimes]

I don't know how the cabinets are constructed. Are the HF and the midrange in they're own compartments, or can you pull one or both and get your arm in there to remove the 044ti and then beat the panel out with a blunt tool or board? IIRC, the LE14 has its own sealed compartment so you can't go that way.

Actually, the entire cab is open inside. the 108 and LE5 are each in their own boxes. there's just no way to get an arm up behind them to push on it. But even if I could, it's stuck too tight for that to help.

[BMWCCA]

there's just no way to get an arm up behind them to push on it. But even if I could, it's stuck too tight for that to help.I was thinkin' getting an arm up there to undo the UHF screws and take it out to give you a direct shot at the panel with a baseball bat as a ram or a 2x4. Maybe put a piece of plywood the size of the panel inside over it to spread the load, then whack away with a deadblow hammer. Unless somebody glued it inplace, it ought to move a little. :dont-know

[rdgrimes]

I was thinkin' getting an arm up there to undo the UHF screws and take it out to give you a direct shot at the panel with a baseball bat as a ram or a 2x4. Maybe put a piece of plywood the size of the panel inside over it to spread the load, then whack away with a deadblow hammer. Unless somebody glued it inplace, it ought to move a little. :dont-know

Too far of a reach for that, and not enough room anyhow.

I did it!!!!

Most of you prolly know what a wonder-bar is. It's a wide, flat pry-bar that is very handy for taking a house apart and such jobs. I took a piece of pine stock, 3/4" x 1/2", and using 2 x 1/4" lag screws I screwed it down into existing holes. I slid the wonder-bar under it and clamped it down tight with the bar laying on the side wall of the cab. A little serious convincing popped the thing loose. It was way too stuck. The plate has some damage but I think I can still use it. Epoxy works wonders for repairing scarfed up particle board. That was most of one afternoon getting that damn thing off.

[Titanium Dome]

Uh, I could have saved you all that trouble, but you would have waited all day (until now) for my answer, and you found a quite similar solution, so well done!

[rdgrimes]

Uh, I could have saved you all that trouble, but you would have waited all day (until now) for my answer, and you found a quite similar solution, so well done!

Is that your idea of sharing? Cough it up wise guy. :p

[rdgrimes]

FWIW, the L250 cabs weigh 75# each with no drivers in them.

[Titanium Dome]

Is that your idea of sharing? Cough it up wise guy. :p

Heh, well, okay.

I took a scrap piece of 5/8" plywood and snugly screwed it into the extant holes so that about 2" of plywood extended beyond the sides of the cab. I took a 4 lb. mallet and firmly but carefully rapped the back of the plywood (inside the dimensions of the cabinet back) several times around, driving everything forward to get some compression breaks at the sticking points.

Then I turned the cab over onto some padded 1x2 supports on the floor, took a wood block and the mallet, hit the 2" plywood extensions on the left, then the right, then the left, then the right, and the thing popped right out in one piece.

Here's a not-to-scale drawing.

[rdgrimes]

Heh, well, okay.

I took a scrap piece of 5/8" plywood and snugly screwed it into the extant holes so that about 2" of plywood extended beyond the sides of the cab. I took a 4 lb. mallet and firmly but carefully rapped the back of the plywood (inside the dimensions of the cabinet back) several times around, driving everything forward to get some compression breaks at the sticking points.

Then I turned the cab over onto some padded 1x2 supports on the floor, took a wood block and the mallet, hit the 2" plywood extensions on the left, then the right, then the left, then the right, and the thing popped right out in one piece.

Here's a not-to-scale drawing.

My plan B was to be similar to your drawing. Only I would shim the plywood sheet up about 3/4" on the cabinet sides, then just use the screws to pull the panel out. Make the holes in the plywood large enough to let the screws turn and as soon as they bite the panel they will lift it like a sort of a gear puller. Less banging. more finesse.

[rdgrimes]

Not the first or last time I'll have to deal with sun bleaching, but the L250 presents a unique problem. Looking for any methods preveiously proven to help with this. I'm thinking of trying some walnut stain I have that will darken the lighter areas.
Photo is taken after strip sanding is done. The discoloration is all the way through the veneer.

[Titanium Dome]

Wow, that's pretty extreme.

Mine weren't that pronounced, but they had similar light and dark bands. I got some walnut stain and put it on the lighter sections and let it sit for a little while, then lightly stained the darker section and the light section again, and rubbed the whole thing out.

When I write "sit for a little while" I mean until it tacks up but before it dries. If it dries, you're SOL. Keep a thinner rag handy in case you really need to buff out a stubborn area. The key is to finish with long strokes from top to bottom.

Then finish with Watco (or similar) walnut oil.

I'll post a couple of pictures.

[rdgrimes]

I decided to live with the fading. Once the grills are on it's invisible anyhow. I just didn't want to risk having some staining make it worse. The cabs had some kind of varnish on them that soaked in and created the dark color. So with the varnish in the veneer, it wasn't taking stain very well anyhow. Too difficult to control and keep even.

[Titanium Dome]

I decided to live with the fading. Once the grills are on it's invisible anyhow. I just didn't want to risk having some staining make it worse. The cabs had some kind of varnish on them that soaked in and created the dark color. So with the varnish in the veneer, it wasn't taking stain very well anyhow. Too difficult to control and keep even.

Sorry to hear that. Here you can see the results up close. You can actually see the "tan line" just below the 044-1's bezel. What's interesting is that the faded areas actually ended a barely perceptible shade darker than the areas that had not faded.

From normal viewing distances, it looks completely uniform.

[Titanium Dome]

That's pretty hard to see. Maybe some arrows will help.

[rdgrimes]

Sorry to hear that. Here you can see the results up close. You can actually see the "tan line" just below the 044-1's bezel. What's interesting is that the faded areas actually ended a barely perceptible shade darker than the areas that had not faded..
I've gotten lazy, and have decided that a certain amount of weathering is just part of life with old veneer cabs. I even left in one cigarette burn on the top of one cab. Adds character. ;)

[BMWCCA]

I'm jumping to a conclusion that one of you is wound a bit tighter than the other. Not that that's a bad thing. ;)

I'll go with the John Irving concept of "pre-disastered", from The World According to Garp, over perfection. My life just isn't geared to the upkeep of perfection! :banghead:

I have only admiration for those who can, and do. And I'd love to follow in their footsteps and scoop up their castoffs. :applaud:

[mech986]

I'm jumping to a conclusion that one of you is wound a bit tighter than the other. Not that that's a bad thing. ;)

I'll go with the John Irving concept of "pre-disastered", from The World According to Garp, over perfection. My life just isn't geared to the upkeep of perfection! :banghead:

I have only admiration for those who can, and do. And I'd love to follow in their footsteps and scoop up their castoffs. :applaud:

We bottom feeders love castoffs...:bouncy: :deal:

Bart

[rdgrimes]

I'm jumping to a conclusion that one of you is wound a bit tighter than the other. Not that that's a bad thing. ;)


I figure I did these cabs a huge favor as it is, 4-stage sanding and 2 coats of finish ain't a bad thing. Once the grills get recovered and rebuilt, they will look awesome and I'll have less than $500 in them if none of the drivers are naughty.

[Titanium Dome]

I'm jumping to a conclusion that one of you is wound a bit tighter than the other. Not that that's a bad thing. ;)

I'll go with the John Irving concept of "pre-disastered", from The World According to Garp, over perfection. My life just isn't geared to the upkeep of perfection! :banghead:

I have only admiration for those who can, and do. And I'd love to follow in their footsteps and scoop up their castoffs. :applaud:

I think it's more a matter of skill set. I worked my way through college and grad school (first stint, anyway) working for a painting and wallpaper contractor. I quickly became very skilled at certain things, including working with wood restoration. Just before I left the trade, I got assigned to do a complete restoration on a centennial church, where I spent almost two months working on walnut, oak, chestnut, ash, and white pine solid and veneered woodwork. After repairing and restoring 100+ years of the ravages of time, moisture, human contact, and sunlight, dealing with speaker veneers was an easy transfer of ability.

[rdgrimes]

Well, I'm a happy guy today. And FWIW, the 400W power rating is no joke. :dancin:

Best part is that including rebuilding one tweet, replacing 2 mids and re-foaming the 14s myself, I have less than $500 in them.

[BMWCCA]

Those look really nice!!

Great job! :applaud:

[rdgrimes]

They have a few warts, but for the price I couldn't be happier. Still need a 044-1 and another LE5-11 wouldn't hurt. The 14s were easy to re-foam, easier than I expected and I'm very glad I didn't have to ship them since they weigh in at 21# each.

The sound is better than expected too. The bottom end is quite different from my L150As, cleaner but just as deep. These will be the mains for my vintage surround system with L150A for surround and L112 for back surround. Ya think I can set them all as "large" in the AVR? ;)

[shaansloan]

Well, I'm a happy guy today. And FWIW, the 400W power rating is no joke. :dancin:

Best part is that including rebuilding one tweet, replacing 2 mids and re-foaming the 14s myself, I have less than $500 in them.

Wow Dan....those really look great....no doubt the sound is SWEET! :D Now we want to know how your gonna get all those LSeries into your Avatar?

[Titanium Dome]

Nice. It's like looking at a waxed Brazilian model without her bikini. Very sexy.

[BMWCCA]

Best part is that including rebuilding one tweet, replacing 2 mids and re-foaming the 14s myself, I have less than $500 in them.If that's a depression in the right-side LE14 dust dome, have you tried gentle suction with a home vacuum-cleaner hose nozzle? I tried it on a 128H-1 but it didn't pop out until I hit the dent with a gentle spritz of tap water in a spray bottle. A few second later it popped out perfectly.

[rdgrimes]

Now we want to know how your gonna get all those LSeries into your Avatar?
That's not a problem, the problem is getting them all to assemble in one place and pose for the picture.

[Titanium Dome]

That's not a problem, the problem is getting them all to assemble in one place and pose for the picture.

That's why there's Photoshop (or equivalent). ;) Still, there's nothing like having the whole family together.

[rdgrimes]

Here they are in their new home. That's a 61" display being dwarfed by the L250s. In surround positions are L150As and L112s, and that's my custom center on top.

All I can say about the L250 is that it's growing on me rapidly. Running on my Sunfire Signature 5x 400W amp, they really gobble up the power. Even at reference levels they are warm and comfortable to the ears. I'm finding no objectionable qualities at all. Even compared to the PS1400/PT800 they replaced, they hold their own remarkably well.

Anyone running L250s on less than 250W is cheating themselves out of a real treat.

For the techno geeks, here's what my Yamaha's PEQ did with the L250s:
(as you can see, the L and R are in very different placements. both speakers have the mid-bass bar set to -1.5db, and all other bars at 0db. The PEQ is set for a flat response, has max 7 bands)

Left:
80Hz: -7.5db
125Hz: -6db
320Hz: +4.5db
630Hz: -4db
3.2KHz: -1db
8KHz: +2.5
16KHz: -1.5db

Right:
40Hz: -9db
80Hz: -5db
125Hz: -7.5db
320Hz: +6db
2KHz: -3db
4KHz: +3db
16KHz: -3db

[Titanium Dome]

Looks good. Nice job!

[BMWCCA]

That's a 61" display being dwarfed by the L250s.Next you'll be telling us that's a 3-Cell D Maglite flashlight on the TV stand! ;)

[rdgrimes]

Next you'll be telling us that's a 3-Cell D Maglite flashlight on the TV stand! ;)
5-cell. ;)

LOL, the one L250 sticks way out into the traffic pattern, might have to install a bumper.

I'm loving the L250 more each day, especially since they went into the big room.

Time to start collecting parts for a 250ti conversion I think. Any 250ti crossovers needing a good home? As is, the L250 is a surprisingly good match for the PS towers and PC600. With the 250ti conversion, that situation could only improve.

One thing is that I'm convinced I can hear the effects of the time-alignment baffle, and I like it a lot. The PS does not have that "extra something" that the 250 has. The PS has dispersion and accuracy that the 250 tends to lack, so it's a trade-off. But they have a lot more in common than not.

[SEAWOLF97]

One thing is that I'm convinced I can hear the effects of the time-alignment baffle, and I like it a lot. The PS does not have that "extra something" that the 250 has. The PS has dispersion and accuracy that the 250 tends to lack, so it's a trade-off. But they have a lot more in common than not.

Have never heard the L250, but the 250ti has pretty good dispersion and accuracy , afraid that by the time you converted the L250 , the same money would be spent as just outright buying the 250ti's ?

with L250's at about 1K$ and 250ti's at about 1.5k$ , it may be more efficient to sell yours and buy the ti's ....unless you dont have enough projects and do have too much time.

[rdgrimes]

Have never heard the L250, but the 250ti has pretty good dispersion and accuracy , afraid that by the time you converted the L250 , the same money would be spent as just outright buying the 250ti's ?

with L250's at about 1K$ and 250ti's at about 1.5k$ , it may be more efficient to sell yours and buy the ti's ....unless you dont have enough projects and do have too much time.
The drivers can be had for very little, it's the XO that's the hard part to come by. I could make lots of $ by selling these, but something tells me I never will. I may buy 250ti anyway, but unless I find them locally I doubt it. Shipping would cost more than I have in these here, and prolly more than the conversion would cost. So I have lots of room in these to play around.

[opimax]

I bought a set of beat 250 for experimenting but also to hold my spares for the TIs :D.When sonically finished they will be TIs. the drivers are in, I have not installed the XO yet. I plan to put them as rears for the system just to play, replacing a set of 120s but they need too much work too leave there as they sit now.

My TIs have CC TIBQ XO Which came from Europe. The amount of effort to fit those in place was not worth the damage and time spent. Look for originals!

If you sell thw 14-1 you could probably almost pay for new 14-3 with the rubber surrounds

I envy the appearance of your speakers, great job

Mark

[barryg]

As you recall from my post on a different thread I'm doing exactly what you've done with impressive results. I have a few of questions:

1. The gray foam material around the 14" woofer is tearing in places. I assume that when people talk about "re-foaming" they're talking about replacing this foam ring. I plan to take this to a JBL-authorized speaker repair place here in LA. Any advice or guidance on this?

2. What finish did you use? I smiled when I saw your pictures showing the sun bleaching; mine have the same. Like you I don't believe I'll bother fixing it.

3. Where did you get the replacement speaker grill cloth?

4. The sticky seal gasket behind the tweeter access panel: what did you replace it with? Mine's mostly intact but there's an 8" length that came off.

Thanks for your advice. Here's hoping that my speakers come out looking as good as your.

--bg

[rdgrimes]

As you recall from my post on a different thread I'm doing exactly what you've done with impressive results. I have a few of questions:

1. The gray foam material around the 14" woofer is tearing in places. I assume that when people talk about "re-foaming" they're talking about replacing this foam ring. I plan to take this to a JBL-authorized speaker repair place here in LA. Any advice or guidance on this?

Please use either Orange Co Speaker or the local person, Edgewound. The 14s are not difficult to re-do, but can be screwed up by the wrong person.


2. What finish did you use? I smiled when I saw your pictures showing the sun bleaching; mine have the same. Like you I don't believe I'll bother fixing it. I used Formby's low gloss Tung Oil. If you prefer not to use any urathane, the standard JBL oil recipe is available here. (Linseed and turpentine). If I were doing it again I'd use a little walnut stain to fix the bleaching on the front baffle only. Note that the turpentine recipe stinks to high heaven.


3. Where did you get the replacement speaker grill cloth? http://www.acoustimac.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=22&category_id=5&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1 The brown is a near exact match for JBL brown.


4. The sticky seal gasket behind the tweeter access panel: what did you replace it with? Mine's mostly intact but there's an 8" length that came off.Mine stayed intact. You can use anything you like as long as it seals and doesn't stick. Even cardboard might be fine. If there's any notches or gaps, maybe rubber?

[barryg]

Orange Co Speaker will be convenient as I make bi-weekly visits to Irvine.

Many years ago I finished a table using 1/3 Tung oil, 1/3 Lindseed oil, and 1/3 Varathane. That worked nicely on maple. I wonder how it would work with walnut? I'll ask around. Since you said that, given a second chance, you would use some stain perhaps I'll reconsider.

Thanks. This is really, really helpful.

--bg

[sourceoneaudio]

5-cell. ;)



Time to start collecting parts for a 250ti conversion I think. Any 250ti crossovers needing a good home? As is, the L250 is a surprisingly good match for the PS towers and PC600. With the 250ti conversion, that situation could only improve.



Well one big thing your missing is that the 250Ti cabinet is constructed from MDF, versus the particle board the L250 is constructed out of. I think you'll have a better/easier time finding a complete pair of 250Ti's that need work, or not instead of building a pair from L250's. ?


Tweets: $400.00 plus dollars
X-overs: The last set I bought ran me $600.00. NIB NOS.
LE14H-3 woofers as an upgrade: $600.00 plus dollars. (if you can find them)
NLA from JBL.

[opimax]

I have bascially finished my upgrade, just waiting for reconed woofers to find there way home!

I have L250 & TIs. I purchase a CC XO from Guido in europe. He supplied TIBQ XO upgrade (wouldn't recommend that swap, fitment is an issue) I used those XO from the originals.

I have at 7 pairs of speakers which use the 044ti tweeter and 104h drivers so over the past 3 years I purchased where I could spares, mainly ebay and sometime paid too much, supply and demand. I want to build a custom center so I had spares for the project and also had an extra 1 or 2 for my spares in general. I have a set 0f 120 for spare parts on top of my spares.

The 108h I was able to buy 1 set new during 1 of JBLs now available moments and the same with 14-3 I used the originals from the TI for original 250s to finish the upgrade. The 108 and 14-1 are the same in the 2 series but mine were either missing or damaged greatly (108s are looking for recones, 14-1 will be back soon from recones).


There is another thread where someone is looking for the 044ti. recommendation is buy the 18TIs and use the tweeters and keep looking for spares where you can.120TI have both the 104h and the 04TI tweeter watch for those

In another thread


Battery dead so i hope this makes sense and i have no time to edit..