Do Smokers Enjoy Music More?

[Ducatista47]

Perhaps a better title would be Does smoking affect taste in music?

“Then there is something called hedonic dysregulation,” Dr. Benowitz said. “It involves pleasure. Nicotine involves dopamine release, which is key in signaling pleasure. When people quit smoking, they don’t experience things they used to like as pleasure. Things are not as much fun as they used to be. It’s something you get over in time.” From this New York Times piece:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/29/us/29smoke.html?em

I usually attribute someone raving about how great some artist or song is - that is an artist or song that many consider trivial crapola - to the variety of taste humans have. Other reasons I notice are generous alcohol consumption while listening and nostalgic connections to pleasures past triggered by the music.

It appears that tobacco has an even greater effect on the basic level of pleasure an experience can afford. Any observations or thoughts? (I am not encouraging smoking here!)

Clark

[JBL 4645]

I can tell you one thing mate those JBL speakers are going to smell like pen and ink, phew! :barf:

:happyh::tree:

[edgewound]

Not surprising at all.

Nicotine is in the same chemical family as cocaine. Alkaloids.

Here's an interesting link:

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-18685312.html

I guess it just makes a shitty life seem that much better.

[speakerdave]

Does this explain why the generality is happy with shit audio gear, bad food, petroleum fiber clothing, sitcoms, hypocritical religious leaders and "compassionate conservatism"?

[Ducatista47]

Does this explain why the generality is happy with shit audio gear, bad food, petroleum fiber clothing, sitcoms, hypocritical religious leaders and "compassionate conservatism"?

Not entirely. For example, about one in five USA citizens smoke but one out of two voted for Bush II twice. Maybe there is something in the water as well. From Firesign Theater:
(One radio host to the other)
"Who was born today?"
(Hesitates) "Why, no one, Hugh."
"No, I mean in history, before they changed the water."

I am hoping that California forum members with 4345's are happier than the average bear. :)

Clark

[speakerdave]

. . . . I am hoping that California forum members with 4345's are happier than the average bear. . . .

Accept that proximity to cheap semi-decent wine probably has the same effect you were discussing. No despair until I visit a friend or relative and they are listening to music from on iPod sitting in some kind of base with 1", 2", 3" or (for the deep bass) 4" speakers. Sometimes they have a seventies half-decent stereo sitting idle or packed away in the garage. They've forgotten they agonized for weeks over spec sheets and price lists before making the final choice at Pacific Stereo.

[edgewound]

I am hoping that California forum members with 4345's are happier than the average bear. :)

Clark

Thanks, Clark. Mostly, it's the weather. If I had 4345's I'd probably never leave the house.

[Ducatista47]

Accept that proximity to cheap semi-decent wine probably has the same effect you were discussing.

Wow, you know my wife Nancy?


No despair until I visit a friend or relative and they are listening to music from on iPod sitting in some kind of base with 1", 2", 3" or (for the deep bass) 4" speakers. Sometimes they have a seventies half-decent stereo sitting idle or packed away in the garage.How low can a four inch speaker go? I think that my two inch JBL PLatinum Series may go to ~100hz, weakly, with wine.

Clark

[speakerdave]

. . . . How low can a four inch speaker go? . . . .

Don't know. My brain is too busy reading the chords and interpolating the bass notes.

[Hoerninger]

My brain is too busy reading the chords and interpolating the bass notes.
Bass Boost and some distortion can make live easier :cheers: .
____________
Peter ;)

[cooky1257]

Depends what you smoke.:)
Seriously people who smoke tend to suffer from bronchial catarrh and stuffed sinuses so probably not without treble boost!

[toddalin]

Wow, you know my wife Nancy?

Clark

Nancy Farber?

[Ducatista47]

Nancy Farber?

You mean, Nancy? We can't talk in here... Nick Danger, Third Eye

Actually, Nancy with some blood in her red wine stream, who only listens to show tunes and singers in general. Right now she is ill and I just warmed up her hot toddy in the microwave. At least it wasn't a Bose Wave.

[JBL 4645]

Not surprising at all.

Nicotine is in the same chemical family as cocaine. Alkaloids.

Here's an interesting link:

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-18685312.html

I guess it just makes a shitty life seem that much better.

I like my shitty life just as long as I have my cat and my JBL speakers. I’m content with my shitty life day in and day out. :D



Wow, you know my wife Nancy?

How low can a four inch speaker go? I think that my two inch JBL PLatinum Series may go to ~100hz, weakly, with wine.

Clark

Not sure if the JBL Control Micro is 4” its rated at 100Hz to 20KHz 40watts sensitivity 85db at 1 metre.

[Ducatista47]

How low can a four inch speaker go? I think that my two inch JBL PLatinum Series may go to ~100hz, weakly, with wine.
Clark

I was wrong, three inch speaker. 10% THD at three watts. Better keep it to one watt.


Technical Specifications
On/off/volume control and LEDFront panel of right speaker Line input jackDigital audio port input Sound output3 watt RMS per channel @ 10% total harmonic distortion (THD) Frequency response100 Hz to 20 kHz Sound pressure level86 dB (1 watt/1 meter) averaged at 300, 400, 500, and 600 Hz
Maximum of 93 dB at 3 watts Nominal impedance
(3-inch driver)4 ohms Dimensions (H x W x D)9 x 3.3 x 4 in (22.86 x 8.38 x 10.16 cm) per speaker WeightRight: 1.26 lb (572 g)Left: 1.12 lb (506 g) Power supply (USA)Input: 120V, 60Hz, 25WOutput: 12V (DC), 1 amp


Ash, how is Sooty?

Clark

[JBL 4645]

I’d try the common speakers that are housed inside a TV set, there about, roughly the same size. Have a limited frequency response and a rough guess SPL might be around 85db?

[clmrt]

Smoking gives you something to do while you sit there. I miss it occasionally.

Its that or eat Cheetos, play Mario Kart...

"A pipe gives a wise man time to think. A fool, something to stick in his mouth."

[Steve Schell]

Well let's see now. The first time I voted for Bush I was a nonsmoker, but by the second time I had taken to smoking cigars occasionally with hi fi friends. Not sure of the statistical significance of this. When we get together it has become something of a ritual: Thai food, listening, cigars out in the yard, more listening. Red wine usually factors in, mostly during the pre-cigars listening session.

[mikebake]

Does this explain why the generality is happy with shit audio gear, bad food, petroleum fiber clothing, sitcoms, hypocritical religious leaders and "compassionate conservatism"?
No, nor does it explain why 95% GLBT's voted for the black man but 80% of the blacks voted against Prop 8.
http://markjberry.blogs.com/way_out_west/spliff.jpg

[mikebake]

Well let's see now. The first time I voted for Bush I was a nonsmoker, but by the second time I had taken to smoking cigars occasionally with hi fi friends. Not sure of the statistical significance of this. When we get together it has become something of a ritual: Thai food, listening, cigars out in the yard, more listening. Red wine usually factors in, mostly during the pre-cigars listening session.
http://ac4.yt-thm-a01.yimg.com/image/722209712088eb32 (http://av.rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geumA241pJ7sUATiysCqMX;_ylu=X3oDMTBxMnRhajZ uBHBndANhdl9pbWdfcmVzdWx0BHNlYwNwcm9m/SIG=12jhmlivu/EXP=1230779574/**http%3a//forum.grasscity.com/photopost/showphoto.php%3fphoto=1079)

[doodlebug]

Well, if smoking - cigarettes, that is - is any indication, then lots of folks enjoyed live music a lot more in the 60s and 70s, judging by the large number of _very_ smoky bars I played in back then.

I'd imagine that there's a connection between the preference for poor sound today a la iPods and the lack of smoking. Sounds like somebody's Masters or PhD research project to me.....

And, no, I never smoked after what I saw that it did to the inside of a saxophone and a trumpet. I paid big bucks for my tenor sax and couldn't justify why people did that. Heck, summer jobs in high school were picking tobacco out of the fields in NC - nasty job, that.

Still, I'd bet there's something to the theory of a relationship to perceived sound and smoking.

Cheers,

David

[yggdrasil]

I just quit smoking 4-5 years ago, and I can still remember what it did to my body and head.

If you look at what smoking addiction does, e.g. after 20 minutes the abstinence starts making you feel uncomfortable. Smoking a cigarette will remove any abstinence while giving you a good feeling. Due to the accelerators and other chemicals they are now adding to cigarettes it takes only 7 seconds from inhalation until it reaches your brain....

So - smoking cigarettes will place the smoker in a great mood for enjoying music with just a little help of chemicals.

Alcohol - i think - is a completely different animal.

Most of the time I enjoy music, I am alone with my own gear. In that environment there's almost allways critical listening. So, if you add critical listening to the factors when enjoying music, my experience is that smoking has no effect on the critical listening, while alcohol (even in small quantities) totally removes the ability to do critical listening.

[Ian Mackenzie]

I guess those guys at Bose are chain smokers!:D

[SEAWOLF97]

"60 Minutes" did a smoking show ( I will disclose that I am about the zenith of anti-smokers) ...but they noted that the additives are not regulated...those that think a cig is pure tobacco are way wrong ..... there are over 600 secret chemical additives and some of those are illegal to dispose of it a designated toxic waste dump...

does a chemical buzz enhance musical appreciation ?? who cares ? .. its just slow suicide.

[Doc Mark]

"60 Minutes" did a smoking show ( I will disclose that I am about the zenith of anti-smokers) ...but they noted that the additives are not regulated...those that think a cig is pure tobacco are way wrong ..... there are over 600 secret chemical additives and some of those are illegal to dispose of it a designated toxic waste dump...

does a chemical buzz enhance musical appreciation ?? who cares ? .. its just slow suicide.

Hey, SeaWolf,

As a life-long non-smoker, and also a professional musician who played very smoky clubs for almost 30 years, I still believe that it's up to each person to do what they think best for themselves. However, I also think that anyone who chooses to smoke is doing exactly what you have posted in your note!! I have lots of relatives, and tons of friends, who have gotten cancers of various kinds, most of them through excess smoking of cigarettes. In any case, it's a free Country (or, at least it used to be.....), and each person can make their own decisions. I have never even been tempted to smoke, either cigs, or joints, nor have I ever used any other recreational substance, besides moderate consumption of good wine, or dark beer. At "going on 60", I'm stronger than most others my age, and can do just about everything that I used to do when I was the Captain of my high school wrestling team! So, at least for me, chosing not to smoke, and do other things that can prove harmful to you, has been a wise choice. By the Grace of God, I just might make the big 6 - 0 next November!! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[Chas]

Clark, I stopped in early October after some 36-37 years. My 4345's sound every bit as good today. ;)

By the way, for those who are still tied to it and looking for help, quitting can be easy - get this book by Allen Carr:

http://www.theeasywaytostopsmoking.com/

[SEAWOLF97]

Hey, SeaWolf,

As a life-long non-smoker, and also a professional musician who played very smoky clubs for almost 30 years, I still believe that it's up to each person to do what they think best for themselves. However, I also think that anyone who chooses to smoke is doing exactly what you have posted in your note!! I have lots of relatives, and tons of friends, who have gotten cancers of various kinds, most of them through excess smoking of cigarettes. In any case, it's a free Country (or, at least it used to be.....), and each person can make their own decisions. I have never even been tempted to smoke, either cigs, or joints, nor have I ever used any other recreational substance, besides moderate consumption of good wine, or dark beer. At "going on 60", I'm stronger than most others my age, and can do just about everything that I used to do when I was the Captain of my high school wrestling team! So, at least for me, chosing not to smoke, and do other things that can prove harmful to you, has been a wise choice. By the Grace of God, I just might make the big 6 - 0 next November!! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

thanx for the answer Doc...I'll turn 60 in April and probably put in 600 miles on my bikes last summer ....have a terrible ankle ( UH-1B incident) and only 2 exercises are beneficial -swimming & bicycling -

anyway..

In '72 I came home after 27 months in the war zone and made myself a promise/ credo ,,,I said " I will not survive all that crap just to die in an accident in the states" ...so have been careful, no accidents, only a little beer & burbon and NO tobacco or other drugs.

When I go in for med appointments, the nurse always asks "drink, smoke" ?? , I tell her that getting old is hard enough, I dont need any extra obstacles.

It has impacted my social life , when all the co-workers go outside to smoke ..I have to take a step or two backfrom the group,,some places I cant go .....but I am remaining true to myself.

Guess the thing that bothers me most about smoking is that its not like a junkie doing his thing "shooting up" and dying ....its that they share the poison with all those around them..

There are too many relying on me to engage in that foolishness.

[Chas]

There are too many relying on me to engage in that foolishness.

It's a strange thing to note that smoking material is something that is legally obtained and when used as intended, it kills it's user. :biting:

[JBL 4645]

I guess those guys at Bose are chain smokers!:D

:rotfl:

[JBL 4645]

Jeffrey Wigand
http://www.jeffreywigand.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Wigand

[Ducatista47]

I'd imagine that there's a connection between the preference for poor sound today a la iPods and the lack of smoking. Sounds like somebody's Masters or PhD research project to me.....

Still, I'd bet there's something to the theory of a relationship to perceived sound and smoking.

All your kind responses tell me there is indeed a relationship.


I just quit smoking 4-5 years ago, and I can still remember what it did to my body and head.

If you look at what smoking addiction does, e.g. after 20 minutes the abstinence starts making you feel uncomfortable. Smoking a cigarette will remove any abstinence while giving you a good feeling. Due to the accelerators and other chemicals they are now adding to cigarettes it takes only 7 seconds from inhalation until it reaches your brain....

So - smoking cigarettes will place the smoker in a great mood for enjoying music with just a little help of chemicals.

Alcohol - i think - is a completely different animal.

Most of the time I enjoy music, I am alone with my own gear. In that environment there's almost allways critical listening. So, if you add critical listening to the factors when enjoying music, my experience is that smoking has no effect on the critical listening, while alcohol (even in small quantities) totally removes the ability to do critical listening.
And this is probably what that relationship is. Smoking gets you in the mood for listening but does not enhance the experience. I asked the question because I have never smoked tobacco and have no wisdom to bring to this.

Like Johnny, I like to listen to music intently. "Most of the time I enjoy music, I am alone with my own gear" is also a good description of what I do. (I think I have a soul brother or two in Norway.) If I have a beer with a friend it does not help the quality of the experience as far as I can tell. I put no trust in anything I or anyone else thinks about music or music reproduction when they have been drinking, even one beer. As I said in another thread, my green tea is the ticket for me. It enhances alertness without clouding the mind. I leave it to the music to get me high, and I can say I do. You could say I get drunk on it.

Silly me, I thought that was the whole reason for listening to music. Helping the spirit and the soul to soar.



There are too many relying on me to engage in that foolishness.
Same here.


I guess those guys at Bose are chain smokers!:D I don't know what they are smoking at Bose but whatever it is it makes the theory of their designs overwhelm their hearing. I would want to do drugs too if I had to listen to their stuff all the time! ;) I think Sony has the same problem, but at least their stuff sounds better. If they keep inventing amplifier classes they will run out of letters.

I like companies who go into business in response to a passion, rather than to take advantage of a financial opportunity. Jim Lansing probably had a lot of that in him, as does that fellow at Great Plains Audio. I don't think Steve is in Cogent to become a millionaire (but I hope he does).




does a chemical buzz enhance musical appreciation ?? who cares ? .. its just slow suicide.

Drugs, alcohol included, are stupid. No argument from me. To all of you who have quit, you have my endless admiration. To all who never started, a lesson learned second hand is still a lesson, and you may be smarter than the rest of us.

Like Doc, I came to alcohol quite late in life. I have an imported ale or stout perhaps once or twice a month. While it is probably harmless, I always consider it a stupid thing to do. Social, but stupid of me. Your mileage may vary!

Clark

[Doc Mark]

Morning, Clark, and All,

My Father was really a drunk, and it very negatively effected the lives of everyone in our family. I learned, at a very early age, that getting falling-down drunk was not really something I wanted to do!! Same with smoking. Dad smoked like a chimney, and always reeked of stale beer, and stale cigarette smoke! YEEEUUUCHHHH!!!!! :blink::blink: He, too, was a musician, and had he put the same energy in his playing, that he put into debauching himself, he would have been super successful, as he was a fine trombone player. He even played with Stan Kenton, way back when, for a short time. But, he was more interested in getting high, and getting laid, and that really messed up his life, and caused many problems for our family. In the end, it killed him, way too early.

When I was growing up, I got into athletics, and that, combined with my very negative aversion to becoming like Dad, solidly set me against smoking, drugs, and other philandering. Later, I got into playing music professionally, and saw even more of what drugs and excess drinking can do to otherwise smart and talented folks. I lost many such friends to drug overdose, heart attacks, cancer, and even one poor fellow who was shot to death during a drug deal, gone bad! He was shot over 40 times, with a .223 rifle, and his riddled car looked like it had been in a war situation!! Oh, yeah, it's all fun and games, right........

All of this added up to only ONE conclusion for me: Drugs, drinking to excess, smoking, and infidelity, were MOST CERTAINLY NOT FOR ME, PERIOD!!!!

Later, after I was married, my Sweet Bride and I found out we liked good red wine with dinner, or a nice glass of chilled white wine on a hot day. As mentioned earlier, I also "discovered" dark beer, when I was fifty, and do like a pint, or two, with dinner, when I'm not enjoying a glass of wine. But, neither of us ever get drunk, as that is not the purpose of enjoying the drinking we do! As to smoking, anyone who visits our home, is welcome to step out on the front deck, and enjoy a smoke, should they feel they need it. But, they cannot smoke in our home, and we fully expect them to police their own "butts", if they do so outside on the deck! What do we do during Winter visits? Same rules apply! ;):D

I must certainly do NOT need drink, or anything else, to enjoy my music!! As you so correctly stated, the music is all I need, and if I ever want to "get drunk", it's on music, and not other substances!!! Well put, my Friend!! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[Ducatista47]

Doc, one way or the other we learn from our parents, and you are a very, very wise man.

A lot of people, when faced with unfortunate childhoods or lifestyle/work comrades being slaughtered by their own habits, just join in or give up. You should write a book showing others how to make better choices when faced with bad role models and associations. I congratulate you on being who you are.

And while condemning no one, I congratulate all here who have triumphed over the parts of their own lives that diminished life's experience for them. I hope I am inspired to do better myself.

I'm going to listen to some Dolphy and Coltrane now... Unlike Doc, that is how I go to church. Or I take a walk in the forest.

Clark

[Ducatista47]

I'd better add this, from another thread:

All this bothers me because unfortunate personal relationships, like drug habits, diminish rather than bolster the quality output of musicians. Most people notice the material for lyrics failed relationships generate, but everything else about it harms an artist. I used to be in the visual arts and believe me, the suffering artist thing is BS from start to finish. A lot of Jazz musicians were great despite the heroin, not because of it. Talent is God given, so to speak, and it can be developed or crippled, but never increased. Notice how musicians are almost always from musical families? They were born with their talent.

Clark

[SEAWOLF97]

I'd better add this, from another thread:

All this bothers me because unfortunate personal relationships, like drug habits, diminish rather than bolster the quality output of musicians.

Clark

When I saw Jim Morrison & Doors at the Santa Barbara CC concert - LaPlaya stadium (aug 68) , he was so drunk and pitiful sounding, I was ready to ask for my $2 back....fortunately the warm up group was great,,,The Chambers Brothers

[Ducatista47]

Here are two really great musicians and their very sad tales. In both cases, mental problems preceded drugs. In order, schizophrenia and fear of flying. The latter may sound trivial, but is a serious problem for a touring musician.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skip_Spence

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_Clark

And ... and schizophrenia again. Here is the greatest musician I ever saw. Different in this case, his mental illness keeps him from music, unless he is taking the medicine for it. Then the medication prevents him from performing. He can't win. Legal drugs are drugs too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Green_(musician) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Green_%28musician%29)

Clark

[Doc Mark]

Evening, Clark,

Many thanks for your very kind words, my Friend! I agree, that we all do learn, one way, or the other, from our parents, and also from our siblings, and from our friends. It's up to us how we use the learning, and how we can either choose to do down the wrong path, or tighten our belts and try to do what we believe to be the right thing, even if it's not exactly what we may "want" to do. It gets easier and easier as we get older, and as we stick to the path we've chosen.

Back in my days as a musician, I played in many bands that were "into drugs". Most of them really were annoyed that I would not go down that dark path. Some of them eventually fired me because of it, too. Others, like my last road band, tried to "corrupt" me, in just about every way imaginable! I resisted every temptation, and by the Grace of God, out-lived some of those same guys! Now, when I look back on it all, I am proud of having made the right choices. But, for me, without the strength my faith in God has given me, I'm sure I'd not done near as well. At our band reunion, several years ago, quite a few old friends/bandmates actually came up and apologized for having given me such a hard time back then, and that was very satisfying in many ways.

But, if you want to talk about giving in to temptation, I will have to admit that I am an ice cream addict, pure and simple!!! :o::o::blink: I could still eat an entire half-gallon of ice cream, if I let myself do that!!!! Back in our days as long-distance backpackers, Sweet Bride and I did one trip that took us three months, on which we backpacked 850 miles. It was on that trip that I first joined the "Half-Gallon Club", which consisted of those of our fellow backpackers who had eaten an entire half-gallon of ice cream in one sitting!! I was hooked forever, and have to keep a firm hold on my ice cream desires, or I'd weigh about 400 pounds, for sure!! ;):blink::bouncy::bouncy:

By the way, I, too, saw The Doors in 1968, or '69, at the San Diego Sports Arena. My experience with them was exactly the same as SeaWolf's. Morrison was so high, and so messed up, that he had a singing range of about three notes! The other band members were obviously disgusted by his crappy performance, and they were actually flipping him off, on stage, every time he came near and mugged at them!! The crowd that night actually chanted for "Crabby Appleton", who had been the warm-up act, to come back!!!! I ended up leaving early, because The Doors sounded so crappy, all because of Morrison's inability to separate "work from play". History proved, all too soon, that Morrison's choices shortened his life by a good bit. Unforunately, that happens far too often...

One more story, and I'll let it all go. My last road band was really into Cocaine, and they thought that "doing some blow" made them into outstanding musicians! Of course, it did nothing of the kind, and they were reduced to worthless crap, every time they did coke on the job. Once, when we were playing in Las Vegas, opening for Paul Revere and the Raiders, the band sounded SO crappy, that I thought we would most certainly be fired!! Luckily, we did not get canned, though we certainly deserved to be fired. I asked the sound man, who worked for the Maxxim, where we were playing, to tape the band one night, and he did so, without the band knowing it was happening. As the night progressed, and as they got more and more high, during each break, their playing went straight down the tubes. The next day, at a band meeting, I produced the tapes, and played them for the band, just to show them that, as much as they had thought that they were playing their very best, they really had sucked the night before, and they did every time they got high on the gig!!! They had to admit it, once they actually HEARD the tapes, but they hated me for having shined that light on their addictions, and how they were really worthless players when doing "blow"!!! I quit that band soon after that, and ended my career as a musician, playing on the Harbor Cruise Boats, out of San Diego, with two very good friends, who were also "straight", like me. It was a true pleasure to come to work every single night, and to know that my bandmates would be playing their very best, every single night!!! Great way to end the career, that's for sure!!! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[Rolf]

Well, for me smoking and drinking something (I don't mean dead drunk!)always make my experience better. Then I can relax.
In the earlier days, on concerts, having a couple of beers was good.

I have never used any drugs, beside the two above. (If you can call them drugs at all).