4411's vs L300's!

[Doc Mark]

Good Morning, Friends,

Well, I finally got around to hooking up our 4411's, after Edgewound did his magic in refoaming them. I will probably need to let them run for a bit, to "break them in" with the new foam, but thought I'd share my impressions of the way they sound, especially when compared to our L300's.

First of all, I believe that the 4411's sound very good, indeed! Compared to the L300's, the basic sound is similar, but more "dry", whilst still retaining the clarity, and effortless sound quality that I love about JBL speakers.

The bass response is not as good as our 2235H-loaded L300's, as might be expected, but it's still quite good. I think that, especially with a subwoofer doing the VLF stuff, this speaker will really shine!

Midrange reproduction is outstanding, and very natural. This is somewhat surprising to me, as I had an original pair of Alnico 2105's that never really sounded that good to my ears, back when I used them. Now, admitedly, way back then, I was sorely lacking in information about really good crossover designs, and really didn't get a chance to play with those same drivers after I began learning more about that, as I traded them away to a JBL fan and reconing Guru (Sam Saye), down in San Diego. Maybe those 2105's would have sounded better to me, had I known how to "help" them with a proper crossover. In any case, the more modern versions of that speaker, in the 4411's, sound very good to my ears, and I'm very happy with them!

It's with the HF driver in the 4411's, that I take the most issue, when comparing them to the L300's, however! I believe the HF driver is the 044 in the 4411's, and it's actually fairly nice. However, I do find that, even when attenutated, it's a tiny bit "tinny" to my ears, especially on female voices. On the other hand, the 2405H's that reside in our L300's sound sweet, clear, and very natural to me, without even the slightest hint of harshness in their response. Female voices, violins, and other HF stuff, sounds completely natural and real. The 044's are just a tad more "forward" sounding to my ears, which really surprised me, to tell you the truth! I'm sure that, if I played with them a bit, I could dial in a smoother sound from them. But, in truth, the 4411's will not replace our L300's, as we love those speakers far too much!!

I've given thought to making the 4411's our rear speakers, in an HT experiment, which might be fun. I would need to come up with some sort of center channel speaker, which could be one of the 4333's, I guess.

In any case, my thoughts on the 4411's are that these speakers are very nice, indeed, but a tad more "dry", or analytical, than the L300's, but not near as much as I'd expected them to be. In truth, had we heard them before obtaining our L300's, I believe that they would have been completely satisfactory to both Sweet Bride and me, especially if we teamed them up with a pair of 2235H's as subwoofers!! But, once we finally scored our L300's, I'm afraid we're more than a little spoiled by their outstanding sound, so they will remain our main speaker system, with the 4411's being used as rears, or in another system someplace in our home!! I'm very glad to have scored the 4411's, though, and like their sound much better than the L100's, or other 4311 series of speakers. The 128H woofer is simply excellent, as are the other components in the 4411's! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[demon]

hey doc!

im happy to see that you have such beautiful speakers to play with, and choose from.
if i would be you, id try to a/b test the speakers -as you already did as i see it, and then do some long period testing. like, setting the 4411 up for two weeks or more and see how you acustom your hearing, your taste, to it. play around with positioning them differntly. as far as i know you got an 18" subwoofer project going already? that would be perfect for the monitors, wouldnt it?
after all, its about playing the equipment, but also playing with the equipment -so if you already got the stuff, give it a shot and really play with it.
hope you have fun doing that (though i think you already do that) (i do, and i have).

have fun anyway!

cheers,
mikey

[Doc Mark]

Hey, Mikey!

Great to hear from you! Yes, I will certainly do lots of swapping around, and combinations, just for fun, to see how everything sounds for a longer period of time. Right now, all speaker building projects, such as the 18" subwoofer, are on hold, as we have three feet of snow, and lots of ice, around our home! As I have to do my building projects downstairs under the carport, such things will have to wait until we are finished with this Winter's snowfall! I'm still looking for an empty 4645C cabinet, and if I could find one, I'd be off to the subwoofer races!! But, if that doesn't happen, I'll just have to wait until Spring, or at least until we get a month of dry weather, so I can began building a clone of the 4645C. Until then, we'll just play around with what we have, and feel really blessed for the fact that we have choices! Thanks, again, for your kind comments, and I'll keep you posted as I listen more to the 4411's. Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[metabaron]

Hi Doc,
I had already read something about your experiences. You confirm, that one shouldn't underestimate the "small" and hornless JBL-Monitors. They are very suited for nearfield monitoring (smaller rooms with smaller distance to listening) and your report confirms the discussions, why today in many studios worked with nearfields instead of the classic "big monitors".

Nearfields may be less in dynamics and deeper bass, but they're also very precise until mid levels. The 4411 and their brothers and sisters may make very fun to listen. Enjoy them and I'm enjoy more of your reports.

I have two selfmade 2-way boxes with common speakers (1,5" texture HF -the "BBC-Mid-High-Speaker" - and a 8" papercone LF) from Audax. They are comperable with nearfields and sounds very naturally. Next year I will start a diy-project with my JBL-Speakers to build a big studio monitor.

[Doc Mark]

Good Evening, Andre,

Thanks, very much, for your kind comments of support! Much appreciated!

I think you are right about the smaller, and medium-sized JBL monitors. I've always enjoyed listening to them, but until I bought the 4411's (for $200), I had never owned an actual pair of them. I did find a single 4312A at a swap meet (for $20) several years ago, and like the sound of it. But, I think that the 4411's sound better than the 4312A, and that their bass is deeper, and very natural in sound. I also like the look of them, and will eventually use them with a subwoofer, just for grins. In fact, I've already considered using the 4411's, bi-amped to the L300's, so that the 2235H's in the L300's would be "subwoofers", of sorts, and free up the 128H woofers in the 4411's, from the VLF stuff. Might sound pretty good, actually.

I like the DIY small monitors that you made, Andre, and have a pair of similar sized ones that I did, many years ago. In fact, I used Audax 6 1/2" woofers in that project, combined with Peerless 1" domed tweeters. I loved the sound of them, too! Unfortunately, one of the Audax woofers went South on me, and began making rubbing noises. So, I retired both Audax woofers, and replaced them with 6 1/2" Peerless polypropylene woofers, which still live in those little boxes, today, and still sound very good, natural, and sweet! Many years ago, when I first built that little system, I also built a 12" dual voice-coil subwoofer to go with it. I made all the crossovers, myself, including winding all the coils for them. The two inductors for the subwoofer were HUGE and quite heavy, air-core coils, and they worked very well, indeed, in a 12db per octave cross-over.

In any case, once we got our L300's, that system was permanently retired from main system use, and now the little satellite speakers are used in Sweet Bride's work studio system. I'd like to replace them with JBL L19's, which I have stored in the Hobbit Hole, and some HK components, also down in the Hobbit Hole. But, for now, those little Peerless-powered speakers sound just fine.

Best of luck on your own DIY JBL projects! Please keep me posted as to how things go for you, and how you like the results of your experimentation! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[SMKSoundPro]

Wow Doc! They look great!!!

Will post pictures of mine soon.

Happy New Year!

Scotty.

[pmakres1]

Hi Doc,

Very nice pics....both your L300's and 4411's look gorgeous. I would just like to say that I am jealous of your L300's! :crying: I wish I had a pair...even though I have no place to put them or any money to pay for them with..:banghead:

Anyway, your setup looks very nice indeed...and I'm sure it sounds great too...as your mother in law can attest! (any MIL who disagrees should be escorted to the door immediately).

Oh, and did I mention I'm jealous of your L300's?

Best wishes for a Happy New Year...

Pete

[Doc Mark]

Hi, Scotty and Pete!

Great to hear from you both, and thanks, very much, for your always kind words of encouragement!

Scotty, I look forward to seeing your own 4411's, and to hearing how you like them! I truly think that, with a good subwoofer, and some dialing-in of the HF stuff, the 4411's will be magnificent performers!

Pete, as always, your comments are truly appreciated! As much as I appreciate your comments on our L300's, your own system is simply outstanding, Pete! I can't imagine what the L300's could offer you, that you don't already enjoy!! For me, I do like the live sound of a horn-loaded system, and for my ear, the L300's are, indeed, the "Summit" of that type of design (some of the 4-way JBL's not withstanding, of course!). But, I am absolutely certain that, if I ever get to listen to your own JBL system, I will be, as my UK friends say, "gobsmacked"!!! ;):D:applaud::applaud:

As I was making breakfast this morning, and doing last night's dishes, I was very much enjoying "Copland 100 - with the Minnesota Orchestra! It offers up "Fanfare for the Common Man" (one of my most favorite classical selections!), "Appalachian Spring Suite", and "Third Symphony", all out standing works by Aaron Copland!! The L300's handled every bit of it with easy charm and finesse, which is one of the reasons I love them so very much!! Their depth, and their super quick transient response, coupled with what sounds exceedingly natural reproduction, makes them top notch in my book!

Someday, I still hope to play with different combinations of JBL components, to include making a nice 18" subwoofer, like your's, Pete! 4 and 5-way JBL systems are on the menu, once I have time, and some good weather, for building them! Until then, our wonderful L300's do everything we ask of them, and with gusto, fidelity, and sweetness!! What more can you ask of a set of speakers, eh?!! ;):D:bouncy:

Take care, Guys, and thanks, again!! Happy New Year to you and yours and may 2009 be your best year, yet!! (JBL-filled, of course!!!) God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[robertbartsch]

I found that driving the smaller 12" monitors with a large amp of 200 watts or more makes a huge difference.

Anyway, now that you have most of the speakers for a modern HT, I would suggest that you try the non-heritage stuff for the center channel. ....say a 2206 and 2426 in a smallish cab...

[Doc Mark]

Good Evening, Friends,

Tonight, Sweet Bride and I watched "The Mummy" on a recently bought DVD. Actually, we got all three segments of this movie, at Costco, for a fairly nice price. I have to say the movie was mostly tongue in cheek stuff, and though compared to the Indiana Jones series, it's fun, but, not in the same class, as far as we're concerned.

However, we split the movie soundtrack between the 4411's, and then the L300's. I have to say that, for this kind of stuff, the L300's stomp on the 4411's, in every respect!! Sweet Bride said it best, when we were discussing the difference in sound between the two different speakers. She said, "They sound 'small' compared to the L300's"! And, she was absolutely right!

We also listened to lots of Diana Krall, and a really fine CD "The Best of Kenny Burrell". They sounded really fine on the 4411's, but again, "small" compared to the L300's. Both Sweet Bride, and I, prefer the sound of the L300's, but if we added a good subwoofer to the 4411's, they might be a bit "larger" in sound. In any case, we like them both, but prefer the L300's for most DVD's, and many CD's. We'll keep swapping back and forth, but I truly think that we're already picked our most favorite between the two: The L300's are still better sounding, in our opinion, though the 4411's are very nice, too! For what it's worth.... Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc and Sweet Bride

[demon]

hey doc!

ive experienced the same thing, and i mainly blame the horn for building up this special "big" sound. combined with a deeper reaching woofer, well...the L3oo must be "bigger" than the monitors.
i have kinda big horns myself (as you know), and listening to a fancy drum solo, like i was presented lately on an "audiophile" test-cd, is really really pushing me out of this world. its like sitting right in front of it (drums). and its so realistic, its already surreal :applaud:

i DONT know though if this is accurate high fidelity/original reproduction or if its already over the top -or worse, some kind of misunderstanding. in this respect, i can imagine that the 4411 (to get back on topic) might deliver the more controlled and maybe honest sound?
but even if they are beeing more "true", they can only loose against the more "big", right? poor 4411.

oh yeah, what i wanted to say in my first posting here, but didnt have the time: i would try, if i woud have the space, to mount the monitors into a wall, like the baffle let in flush, and equalize them "back to correct".
well. like in studio application -but who has the space for this...


cheers,
mikey

[duaneage]

The 4411 is distinctive in that it is the only monitor that can be voiced forward or back in the midrange. The crossover is really complex, a thrid order network with special care paid to the midrange attenuation circuit.

I made a pair because of all the compact three way JBL monitors I heard this one I liked the best. Dry is how it is described and I like dry.

They made the 4411 until 1986, quite a long run for this model.

The 112 was the home version but it did not have the same crossover, only the drivers were similar. The midrange is the 2105(h), a pro version of the LE 5-9, and it makes the speaker system what it is.

The cab volume is real tight on these, around 1.6 cu ft. That small of a box makes real deep bass hard to achieve but the 128h does perform well. I think the 128h is probably the best 12 inch LF transducer JBL produced.

[BMWCCA]

That small of a box makes real deep bass hard to achieve but the 128h does perform well. I think the 128h is probably the best 12 inch LF transducer JBL produced.I used to think so . . . and I still love mine. Heck, I own three pairs of JBLs with 128H/H1s. But I'm convinced now that the LE120H-1 will knock the 128H into the weeds—if 12" deep bass is the playing field we're talking about here.

[4313B]

But I'm convinced now that the LE120H-1 will knock the 128H into the weedsIt better. It's an upgrade.