Sometimes, you just can't win!

[Doc Mark]

Greetings, Friends,

Well, sometimes, you just can't win, no matter how hard you try! My wonderful Mother-In-Law came up to our very snowy (three feet deep, so far) mountains, to spend Christmas with us. We always enjoy having her up in our home, and always have fun when she's here. She noticed our "new" L300's as soon as she walked in the door, and I told her all about them. She then told me about the wonderful system her sister bought for herself for Christmas, a Bose Home Theater system......... I spent the last several days playing wonderful Christmas music through our L300's, at fairly low volumes, which she dearly loved. But, she really didn't see any difference between "those big speakers", and "those nice little Bose speakers". To her, they both sounded the same.....!:blink::bs::blah::banghead: I tried to explain about dynamics, honest frequency response, transient response, psycho-accoustics, and all the other things that makes the L300's CRAP ALL OVER THE BOSE SPEAKERS!! She really didn't get it. So, tonight, I put on the Boz Scaggs "Dig" CD, and told her that what she was going to hear was honest, very deep bass, produced on a synthesizer, which no Bose system could ever hope to reproduce. I played only the first few bars of track #5, "Desire", and immediately saw that not only was she not impressed, but she HATED the sound!! "It's too loud", she whined, as she slammed her hands over her ears, and ran from the room!!!!! Now, please note, that I purposely did NOT turn our system up too loud, as I knew that she would not care for too much volume. However, she took the "feeling" of honest bass reproduction, as "loudness", and hated the feeling of it.

To her, ALL music is supposed to be "background" music, which only provides "noise", and which is not for actual listening. To her, having the TV blaring, all day long, even when she's not even in the room, is what she enjoys. It drives her absolutely crazy that we never even turn on our TV, unless we are actually sitting there, "watching" it!!! When we finish our program(s) of choice, we turn off the TV. To her, that is something that she cannot fathom...... the thought of actually have "quiet" in our home, is totally foreign to her, and quite boring. And, to top it off, she really doesn't understand that we actually ENJOY listening to our music, when to her, it's just something that is always supposed to be in the back-ground, and should never be "instrusive" into her TV enjoyment......

Go figure, Friends...... sometimes, you just can't win!! Sigh.......... Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[hjames]

You actually missed the point - it sounds like she was more interested in telling you about her sister's wise choice buying the bose. The sound never actually entered into it - her sister has those speakers that are so well spoken of on TV (in ads, but she doesn't notice that part), they are small and discrete, and her sister got a deal on them. You have those big dark no-name speakers that are too loud, ugly, and obnoxious (grin) ... :applaud:
You were trying to puff yourself up by dissing her sister, not a winning strategy!

But you have the JBLs - so you DO win!!
Kudos to you, sir, for a wise choice! :D


She noticed our "new" L300's as soon as she walked in the door, and I told her all about them. She then told me about the wonderful system her sister bought for herself for Christmas, a Bose Home Theater system
... But, she really didn't see any difference between "those big speakers", and "those nice little Bose speakers". To her, they both sounded the same.....!
JBLs ... she HATED the sound!! "It's too loud", she whined, as she slammed her hands over her ears, and ran from the room!!!!!
Every Good Wish,
Doc

[mikebake]

Greetings, Friends,

Well, sometimes, you just can't win, no matter how hard you try! My wonderful Mother-In-Law came up to our very snowy (three feet deep, so far) mountains, to spend Christmas with us. We always enjoy having her up in our home, and always have fun when she's here. She noticed our "new" L300's as soon as she walked in the door, and I told her all about them. She then told me about the wonderful system her sister bought for herself for Christmas, a Bose Home Theater system......... I spent the last several days playing wonderful Christmas music through our L300's, at fairly low volumes, which she dearly loved. But, she really didn't see any difference between "those big speakers", and "those nice little Bose speakers". To her, they both sounded the same.....!:blink::bs::blah::banghead: I tried to explain about dynamics, honest frequency response, transient response, psycho-accoustics, and all the other things that makes the L300's CRAP ALL OVER THE BOSE SPEAKERS!! She really didn't get it. So, tonight, I put on the Boz Scaggs "Dig" CD, and told her that what she was going to hear was honest, very deep bass, produced on a synthesizer, which no Bose system could ever hope to reproduce. I played only the first few bars of track #5, "Desire", and immediately saw that not only was she not impressed, but she HATED the sound!! "It's too loud", she whined, as she slammed her hands over her ears, and ran from the room!!!!! Now, please note, that I purposely did NOT turn our system up too loud, as I knew that she would not care for too much volume. However, she took the "feeling" of honest bass reproduction, as "loudness", and hated the feeling of it.

To her, ALL music is supposed to be "background" music, which only provides "noise", and which is not for actual listening. To her, having the TV blaring, all day long, even when she's not even in the room, is what she enjoys. It drives her absolutely crazy that we never even turn on our TV, unless we are actually sitting there, "watching" it!!! When we finish our program(s) of choice, we turn off the TV. To her, that is something that she cannot fathom...... the thought of actually have "quiet" in our home, is totally foreign to her, and quite boring. And, to top it off, she really doesn't understand that we actually ENJOY listening to our music, when to her, it's just something that is always supposed to be in the back-ground, and should never be "instrusive" into her TV enjoyment......

Go figure, Friends...... sometimes, you just can't win!! Sigh.......... Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc
I actually understand this completely and have experienced the same exact thing. Don't worry about it. She may one day kind of dig it if the "background" music slowly increases if the emotion is there, but people like her are the reason that people need proper music exposure at a young age. The, instead of cringing, they enjoy it at realistic levels.

[Titanium Dome]

Count your blessings, Doc. The holidays will be over and she'll be gone, back to her Bose-loving friend. No need to push her. Enjoy her on her own terms and get back to serious JBL biz when she's gone.

You're so very lucky to be living with someone who shares your passion, so, again I say, count your blessings. :yes:

[Rolf]

Hi all, and happy holidays. Doc, this is very common with the generation before us. When they were young there wasn't this kind of speakers. (Or the type of equipment we use). I remember my parents "hi-fi" equipment. It was a 78 rpm thing, with a large horn, and you had to wind it up manually. (Almost like the one you can see on old ads from "his masters voice".

But ... are we any better? We are listening to "old" JBL's or Altec speakers, denying that some modern speakers are better. Some believe and old electrical wire is as good as modern wire. I KNOW there is better speakers than my 4343's, but I prefer the sound of the 4343. They give me something I have yet to find in a modern speaker, but I try my best to get improvement regarding amps, CD players, cables and so on.

Don't worry. Our grand children don't agree with us either.

[BMWCCA]

It's possible I'm not as old as Rolf (or maybe I am), but 53 years ago my father bought a JBL speaker as part of a mono hi-fi system. Not sure what it replaced, if anything, but I was only three at the time. Pretty sure it wasn't a gramophone.

But perhaps it was your choice of music. As a Boz Scaggs fan for decades, I was a bit disappointed in the sound of that same sythesized bass when I first heard "Dig". To me it bordered on the epitome of what is wrong with a lot of "modern" recordings today. I guess after growing up listening to bass as produced by a D130, I may not be objecive, however I don't get that same feeling when I listen to a well-recorded Steely Dan or the various string-bass players on a Bill Evans album. "Dig" might fit well on the Fred Sanford "Roundness" test CD as opposed to "Soundcheck". It's more Prince's "7" than Lyle Lovett's "She's Already Made Up Her Mind". Regardless of how you categorize it, it's no "Silk Degrees" which I consider classic Boz.

Just my humble opinion, of course, but I was all set to enjoy owning "Dig", until I heard it. I may have to try it again, but currently my idea of bass that I love to listen to is epitomized by Ray Brown on Bill Evans' "Quintessence". It's natural, dynamic, and sounds like I'm there during the performance. The L7s play it well. And I have this forum and Ducatista47 (http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/member.php?u=2257) to thank for that experience.

[Fred Sanford]

My in-laws are here for a few days, and they've gotten a couple of good lessons so far. Last night's lesson was "dynamics"- we watched Iron Man on the living room surround system (sorry, no JBLs in that one). Dialogue actually was a comfortable conversation level, and explosions rocked you right out of your seat (or slumber, for my Mother-In-Law). Fun stuff.

Lewis Ross' Christmas album (highly recommended) playing over the 4333As made them think that I was playing an acoustic guitar in the living room.

Christmas day was the Steely Dan 2VN live DVD in the basement (L46s w/ Velodyne sub), it was greeted with, "Oh, my God- it sounds like I'm at the show! I love it!"

je

[maxwedge]

My wife is the same way!:( I'll be playing some music at a moderate but comfortable level and she'll come home, walk in the door and immediately have that sour look on her face!:barf: She doesn't even give me a chance to turn it down!

[Titanium Dome]

Max, my GF can be that way, too. We used to get a little huffy when she'd come home and I was listening at what I considered reasonable levels, but now I just turn it down as soon as I know she's around. It saves a lot of trouble, and I always end up turning it down anyway. ;)

Weirdly, whenever I get in her car, her radio is turned up to unbearable volume for my ears. Go figure. :dont-know

[maxwedge]

I can get into my 'whatever' mode and it gets really fun, LOL. She hates that. :blink:

[jblsound]

As the old saying goes, "there's no accounting for taste", or the lack of it. And that is certainly true when it comes to audio gear/speakers some people buy.

Just like yesterday some clown on another forum was pimping Def Tech, I wouldn't want those for free, might as well have Blose.

[tom1356]

As my wife says daily, "No one cares about your stereo."

[Mr. Widget]

My wife is the same way!:( I'll be playing some music at a moderate but comfortable level and she'll come home, walk in the door and immediately have that sour look on her face!:barf: She doesn't even give me a chance to turn it down!


Max, my GF can be that way, too. We used to get a little huffy when she'd come home and I was listening at what I considered reasonable levels, u now I just turn it down as soon as I know she's around.You guys just need a better stereo. :p When Mrs. Gadget comes home and the system is warmed up, she starts singing along with it... or dancing when that is more appropriate. :D


Widget

[Mr. Widget]

As a Boz Scaggs fan for decades, I was a bit disappointed in the sound of that same sythesized bass when I first heard "Dig".I bought that album too after reading the praises here... I was disappointed. My favorite Boz album is Come on Home... it is filled withe "real" music from real instruments.


Widget

[jblsound]

You guys just need a better stereo. :p When Mrs. Gadget comes home and the system is warmed up, she starts singing along with it... or dancing when that is more appropriate. :D


Widget
What does one expect with cheap, vinyl covered, 6" deep speakers blairing:p. Guess we should buy the LS towers, or Arrays, or K2, or EII:D

[pmakres1]

As my wife says daily, "No one cares about your stereo."


These are the people who are missing out....

[maxwedge]

You guys just need a better stereo. :p When Mrs. Gadget comes home and the system is warmed up, she starts singing along with it... or dancing when that is more appropriate. :D


Widget
My wife and I are totally opposite but we get along well because we're both easy going. Shes gone right now so the music is flowing, Traveling Wilburys.:bouncy:

[ironman]

I feel and have felt your pain on more than one occasion ! Back in '78 my parents were furious with my decision to "waste" good money on my L-110's. I just knew I'd be vindicated when they finally heard them. I drove directly to their house from the store, set up the system (Sansui/JBL) and asked them to pick out their favorite album. I positioned them and the speakers just so, told them to close their eyes and prepare for Ol' Blue Eyes himself to "appear". I was devastated by my mothers reaction ! She actually said she thought her radio in her Ford Pinto was comparable !!!!! AGHHHHH !!! "I dunno, I think my radio sounds pretty darned good - I love it". This past summer I was determined to repeat same. This time with my L-112's. Even with the 160 watt Sansui on "2" we had to speak up to hear each other. I asked her "Mom, is this too loud for you". She says "No, its a comfortable level". I said "do you notice that with the volume this low we can't hear each other at normal conversational db level ?". She finally started getting the idea. I popped in one of her CD's she had brought along. I has her sit in "my" seat,told her to close her eyes and relax and that I had a few chores to do and would come back to the room when I heard the CD end. She did acknowledge the imaging - finally - THIRTY years later !! You don't need to remind me of the 110/112's deficits or comparisons to today's speakers, I'm well aware. But, to what my mom is used to... ! NOT that I haven't tried !! I did give them my ARIIax's and a decent receiver many years back. They collected dust. When my father passed away my mom started "cleaning out". She offered the set up to my sister (who I love dearly BUT...). I had to step in ! "Mom, if you don't want them anymore, please return them to me". To her and my sis they were just another piece of electronics -like a clock radio. I know this is not an AR fan site but hey, they did have their place ! I still have my ARIIax's, my KLH Model 6's along with 6 pair of various JBL bookshelves/floor standers. I enjoy them alone.
Somehow this is all linked to "priorities". Especially with the "Great Depression" generation. They can't be bothered with "imaging". Its a waste of precious $. And they are right - at least they have their heads screwed on right. I had NO business spending what I did on that system back in '78 when I could barely pay my monthly car loan/insurance ! BUT, they were JBL's and they were on SALE. No need to explain here I know LOL !! 'Nuff said !

[Rolf]

It's possible I'm not as old as Rolf (or maybe I am),

Ha-ha. I am a model 52. (you could have find it out yourself).

Anyway, my parents did not agree with my choice of music, and certainly not the volume I played it.

Then, when I finally moved to my own home I could play the way I wanted. ... and have done so ever after.

[Croc999]

Doc,
that's a funny story.
i guess that's a very good thing that not all people think the same - it would be a quite boring world ;)

you know, quite a lot i hear in my "home" audio forum "normal" people wondering "how come you guys pay 1,000$ for a CD player or for an amplifier?" - it just sounds so redicolous to them.
then i ask them back "how many people do you know that invested 2,000$ in their car audio system? why it's OK to do it in the car but redicoulous for a home stereo?"

so, it's a matter of perceptions and education.
most of the public is not exposed to stere magazines and comercials - so Bose and Yamaha are the only things that they know.......

[Fred Sanford]

As my wife says daily, "No one cares about your stereo."

My wife's house, car and clothes were paid for by my interest in Audio/Video. She cares, and likes it just fine.

je

[Doc Mark]

Greetings, All,

Thanks for the friendly comments and commiseration! I am SOOOO very happy that Sweet Bride is nothing like her Mother, especially when it comes to our stereo system!! She dearly loves our music playback equipment, and easily sees a massive improvement over what we used to have. She understands frequency range, dynamics, and all the other things that makes our music sound so good to us, and appreciates what it has taken to get the sound we enjoy. The interesting thing is that she made a VERY good suggestion for yet another demonstration of our system to Mom! Mombo loves Michael Flatley's "Riverdance", and so Sweet Bride innocently suggested, this morning at breakfast, "Hon, why don't you put on the "Riverdance" DVD tonight? I'm sure that Mom will dearly love the way it sounds on our new L300's!" Mom was all for it, believe it, or not, and I told her, well, I'll go for it, but understand that it's going to be a much different sound than you've ever heard before, and you will hear the sound of their dancing, just like they were right here in the room with us! Her eyes actually sparkled in anticipation, my Friends!!! I'll report back to you tomorrow, and tell you how it all turned out. But, even if Mom doesn't see the "wonder" of our good system, even after "Riverdance", I am so proud of Sweet Bride for not only loving our system, but for being smart enough to suggest yet another way to possibly win Mom over to it!! Great Gal, my Sweet Bride!! ;):D:applaud::applaud: Take care, Friends, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[Doc Mark]

Update:

SUCCESS!! Mom now "understands" what makes JBL Legend speakers, like the L300's, so much better than any others that she's ever heard!! Yippee!!

Last night, we watched "Riverdance", as suggested by Sweet Bride. From the opening music, Mom was sitting forward in her seat, completely enthusiastic about what she was hearing! After it was all over, she told us she'd watched that same video, hundreds of times, and never before had she heard the depth of sound that she enjoyed last night! She was also shocked at how crisp the dancing "clicks" were, as though she'd never heard that kind of thing before! Then, as if that wasn't enough, this morning, she asked if we could watch the new Indiana Jones movie, "The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull", and she was totally amazed at the deep bass, and the clean dialog, that we enjoyed watching the movie! During the film, I asked if it was too loud, and she say, "Oh no, not at all!!" For figure... The rumbling of the waterfalls, the lift-off of the space vehicle, and everything else, was really enjoyable to her, even at a fairly high volume. When we were finished, I told her, without mentioning the Bose system her sister now has, "Mom, this is what makes such JBL systems so much better than most anything else that's out there today! Very few people, today, can even FIND such a nice system as what you've enjoyed this past week". She nodded her head, in complete agreement, and looked at our L300's with new respect in her eyes! YES!!!!

Now, I can rest easy, knowing that someone who, heretofore, was totally unimpressed by our speakers, finally has "seen the light", and has become a JBL believer!! By the way, I also played the fantastic CD, "Super Double-Bass, The Artistry of Gary Karr", that one of our JBL Brothers suggested that I buy, and wonder of wonders, Mom LOVED it!! She asked if she could get a copy, and I told her how much it cost. That was the end of that! I also told her that she might not be too impressed with how it sounded on her super tiny, little upright all-in-one CD/speaker system at home. But, I did mention that maybe she might like it on her sister's Bose system...... (ain't I a bastige!! ;):D) :blah::bs::bouncy: All's well that ends well, eh?! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[pmakres1]

Congrats Marc,

The truth always prevails! :applaud:

Pete

[robertbartsch]

The first time I heard Bose was in the early 1970s. They were 901s and I thought they sounded like 100 transistor radios playing at full volume - just TERRIBLE!

Anyway, the great Bose sound is the same to this day.

I even was given a pair of Bose headphones by American Airlines. They suk too! Apparently, they need battery power to provide equalization.

[hjames]

Need to change the title of this thread ...

You have JBLs - thus, you DID win!

(if you had Blows or whatever, you'd be a looser, eh?)

[metabaron]

Hi Doc,
that's fine, that your mom was convinced by your JBLs :applaud: She seems to be not the "loud music" listener like us but a movie with appropiate sound devices moves mountains. That's the reason, how JBL had succses with cinema systems. So you have both, cinema and studio, great :)

[Doctor_Electron]

QUOTE: "how many people do you know that invested 2,000$ in their car audio system? why it's OK to do it in the car but redicoulous for a home stereo?"

The most I've ever paid for a car or truck was $4,700, for a like-new, but eight year old F-150 pickup. A heavily discounted Blaupunkt Cheyenne from COSTCO, with it included Blaupunkt speakers sounded better than most high $ car rigs I' heard. Musical, imagine that. Around $150

Probably 10X that much I blew looking for the Holy Grail of hi fi, but this year I bought "new" (4412) speakers for the first time since 1986 (4410's). I use old Sansui electronics because I like the sound (no chase needed). I would love to have some big 80's large format BiRadials, but would need a major structural rebuld as well as a Wide Load Permit for the full-time RV. The chase is OFF !

I've stayed `with the small JBL Pro monitors because as mentioned in an earlier post, in their best phyiscal settings, you can get your ears on some great grail. :D

[JBL 4645]

LOL I think Doc, you’ve now converted your mom to the JBL side. The Dark side is BOSE.:barf: Now your mom has seen the light, maybe she’ll pay strict attention to the leader in sound that is JBL. :applaud:


Hi Doc,
that's fine, that your mom was convinced by your JBLs :applaud: She seems to be not the "loud music" listener like us but a movie with appropiate sound devices moves mountains. That's the reason, how JBL had succses with cinema systems. So you have both, cinema and studio, great :)

Well they where at the birth of cinema sound late of (1927 The Jazz Singer). ;)


Need to change the title of this thread ...

You have JBLs - thus, you DID win!

(if you had Blows or whatever, you'd be a looser, eh?)

LOL is that the new word now Heather, Blowers LOL BOSE blows. LOL:rotfl:

[SMKSoundPro]

For along time, my dad thought I was using large Klipsch speakers. He always seemed to forget that they were JBL's. But at a family friends wedding reception that mom and dad were guests at, dad said: "these JBL's are tremendous!"

The point is once mom and dad really heard the JBL sound, they knew it and did not forget it.

Goodluck to your mother in-law! She may bring all of her friends to your house for "RiverDance" night!!!

Happy New Year!!!

scotty.

[JBLRaiser]

BECAUSE I LOVE MY MUSIC LOUD!!!..........pity:D

[boputnam]

You guys just need a better stereo. :p That was my first thought...


When they were young there wasn't this kind of speakers..Not so much - most of them were of the proper age when many of the speakers we now adore were in circulation.

It ain't about "loud" either. Sure, you can impress someone with monster transients on a dramatic DVD, but that's not the gain structure people listen to.

Most visitors (and grandparents) to my home are stunned with the quality of the 4345's at very low gain - that is what get's their attention. Not only the crisp, clear highs, but the tonal and full bass response - that is when they realize there is nothing offered by Bose that can even approximate the character of that response.

And then, they understand why large cabinet size and 18" woofs really do matter. :p

[pmakres1]

That was my first thought...

Not so much - most of them were of the proper age when many of the speakers we now adore were in circulation.

It ain't about "loud" either. Sure, you can impress someone with monster transients on a dramatic DVD, but that's not the gain structure people listen to.

Most visitors (and grandparents) to my home are stunned with the quality of the 4345's at very low gain - that is what get's their attention. Not only the crisp, clear highs, but the tonal and full bass response - that is when they realize there is nothing offered by Bose that can even approximate the character of that response.

And then, they understand why large cabinet size and 18" woofs really do matter. :p

Lots and lots of truth here...especially in that last sentence.

Pete

[Doc Mark]

Good Morning, All,

I really do appreciate all the outstanding comments in this thread, and on my situation with my Mom-in-Law! Very insightful and spot on the money, Friends! I, too, believe that showing the real difference between a JBL system, and Bose, or many other speakers systems, does have much more to do with quality and depth, rather than loudness, overall. Of course, loudness, or the ability to play loudly, when called for, and when musically appropriate.

I also got a smile out of BMWCC and Widget's comments on Boz Scagg's "Dig" CD! My most favorite Scaggs offering is "Come On Home", and of course I really enjoy, "Silk Degrees", and several other older albums that he made. But, I also appreciate many of the songs on "Dig", too. While I do not consider it "true" bass, I actually love the synth bass on some of the songs on that album! I love the feeling of that low bass, even though it's not the same as can be enjoyed with a real stringed bass instrument, and certainly not the same as a good pipe organ can produce! I would not want to listen to that type of low synth-bass all the time, but when I'm in the mood, it's outstanding, as far as I'm concerned!!

In any case, I would have a very hard time going back to any system that could not reproduce any and all types of deep bass, should I wish to enjoy it. Thanks, again, for the outstanding comments, my JBL Friends!! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc