PDA

View Full Version : Dance and Trance Me



Titanium Dome
12-18-2008, 08:30 AM
In my frequent wanderings in the new Target store in San Pedro, I usually stop by the Wii aisle, the DVD aisles, and the CD aisles. Twice in the past month, there was at least one Ultra Records disc on sale under $10, usually tucked into the last bin on the last aisle next to soundtracks.

First I picked up Ultra.2009 and later Ultra.Dance 09. I've been listening nonstop for days now, and I have to say this genre of electronic music and its sub-genres of dance and trance are never-ending sources of revelation and musical pleasure.

Now my music collection has more trance in it than anything else, with classical second, jazz third, dance fourth, classic rock fifth, World music sixth, New Age seventh, musical/soundtrack eighth, and pop last. Of course, these are generic categorizations, since classical includes symphonic, orchestral, chamber, ensemble, solo instrumental, solo voice, choir, Baroque, opera, cantata, etc.

Electronic is all I have on my iPhone and iPod. It goes with me from office to office on the iPod and everywhere with the iPhone.

Titanium Dome
12-18-2008, 08:34 AM
For reference, the Apple Lossless sounds just great in my office JBL systems:

4430/B380
L250
L7

The L7 system plays the best, with a near perfect room and bi-amped with two Soundcraftsmen A400 amps. Since the office is in the Arts District with a door to the street, it attracts a lot of eclectic female artists and artisans who tend to like what I like (in music anyway). :banana:

4313B
12-18-2008, 09:06 AM
Electronic is all I have on my iPhone and iPod. It goes with me from office to office on the iPod and everywhere with the iPhone.So what you are saying is that you now live in a trance?

Hoerninger
12-18-2008, 09:49 AM
... it attracts a lot of eclectic female artists and artisans who tend to like what I like (...). :banana:
I never knew that it could be called trance :blink:
___________
Peter ;)

Allanvh5150
12-18-2008, 11:22 AM
Trance?
No jbl system should be subjected to music, and I use the term very loosely, of that calibre. When were Classical and Baroque the same thing?:)

hjames
12-18-2008, 11:55 AM
Trance?
No jbl system should be subjected to music, and I use the term very loosely, of that calibre. When were Classical and Baroque the same thing?:)

C'mon, a bit of Oakenfold and the Japanese Soup Warriors
is GOOD for the soul!
slice and dice music for the slice and dice DIY speakerfanz

Titanium Dome
12-18-2008, 02:12 PM
So what you are saying is that you now live in a trance?

I've been in a trance most of my life, just like everyone else on this site. I'm just ready to admit it. :p

Titanium Dome
12-18-2008, 02:31 PM
Trance?
No jbl system should be subjected to music, and I use the term very loosely, of that calibre.

:flamed:

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, even if it is bollocks. :p The better JBL systems are among the few that can do this music justice.

When I write "better JBL systems" I'm not referring to studio monitors, though some of them might be capable as well.



When were Classical and Baroque the same thing?:)

They weren't and aren't. Maybe my poor word choice confounded you. I just lumped it all together like they do at Borders, Tower, or other retailers where there's just a "classical" section that's a catch all for all those genres.

I suppose I could separate it all out for you, but I don't want to. My intent was not to create a detailed list.

Krunchy
12-18-2008, 02:45 PM
:D

http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/d4/3a/583dc060ada0d251f895d110._AA200_.L.jpg

TD, what are some of the artists of this new (to me) genre. I dont know if Sound Tribe Sector 9 falls into this category but its certainly fun stuff. I actually just ordered some cd's today, Thrillseekers, some Armin van Buuren, and a couple of other STS9 cds. No really sure what to expect but some of it was certainly interesting to say the least. Not a big techno or dance kind of guy but what I've heard so far was pretty cool.

Hipno! the next frontier :D (does it exist already!?)

4313B
12-18-2008, 02:47 PM
I've been in a trance most of my life, just like everyone else on this site. I'm just ready to admit it. :p;)

Krunchy
12-18-2008, 03:03 PM
4313B

This music, some of those $500.00 caps and one could be telported into the mythical magical & ever so elusive 5th dimension :D ;)

4313B
12-18-2008, 03:11 PM
4313B

This music, some of those $500.00 caps and one could be telported into the mythical magical & ever so elusive 5th dimension :D ;)Yeah Baby! :applaud:

up, up and away (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWVe3AB8OY8&feature=related)

Krunchy
12-18-2008, 04:00 PM
Yeah Baby! :applaud:

up, up and away (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWVe3AB8OY8&feature=related)


:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Oh thats too much! thank you I enjoyed that ;) (great skirts to boot)

Allanvh5150
12-18-2008, 06:12 PM
Them fish are really biting hard today....:applaud:

scott fitlin
12-18-2008, 06:36 PM
Trance?
No jbl system should be subjected to music, and I use the term very loosely, of that calibre. When were Classical and Baroque the same thing?:)No, sorry, got to disagree here.

Now, the typical stuff heard on the radio can be a bit cheesey, or just downright lame, BUT, I find trance, stuff that has much melody, and IS music, IN EVERY SENSE!

Check out A trance tune called Sunday Morning Walk by Arney S, available at www.beatport.com. IT IS NOT NOISE! It's music, and this is why I can play the music I do, because i SEARCH for my music, thru tons of pop music ca-ca, and in general mediocre wannabe drivel, BUT, there is certainly music in every genre, and every type of music style.

You cannot judge these genres, by what you hear on the radio stations. Because what a GREAT DJ plays in a club, is so vastly different from commercial cheesey radio tunes.

There is another level, the next plateau, a HIGHER STATE OF BEING!

And some very symphonic, and orchestral sounding, well made, musical, high quality, AMAZINGLY well produced trance, techno, and house music, BUT you don't hear it on the radio, XM, or Sirius!

Titanium Dome
12-18-2008, 07:23 PM
:D


TD, what are some of the artists of this new (to me) genre. I dont know if Sound Tribe Sector 9 falls into this category but its certainly fun stuff. I actually just ordered some cd's today, Thrillseekers, some Armin van Buuren, and a couple of other STS9 cds. No really sure what to expect but some of it was certainly interesting to say the least. Not a big techno or dance kind of guy but what I've heard so far was pretty cool.

Hipno! the next frontier :D (does it exist already!?)


No, sorry, got to disagree here.

Now, the typical stuff heard on the radio can be a bit cheesey, or just downright lame, BUT, I find trance, stuff that has much melody, and IS music, IN EVERY SENSE!

Check out A trance tune called Sunday Morning Walk by Arney S, available at www.beatport.com. IT IS NOT NOISE! It's music, and this is why I can play the music I do, because i SEARCH for my music, thru tons of pop music ca-ca, and in general mediocre wannabe drivel, BUT, there is certainly music in every genre, and every type of music style.

You cannot judge these genres, by what you hear on the radio stations. Because what a GREAT DJ plays in a club, is so vastly different from commercial cheesey radio tunes.

There is another level, the next plateau, a HIGHER STATE OF BEING!

And some very symphonic, and orchestral sounding, well made, musical, high quality, AMAZINGLY well produced trance, techno, and house music, BUT you don't hear it on the radio, XM, or Sirius!

Scott's right, you have to dig a little to find the treasure, but it's not that hard to uncover. You just have to move away from the typical outlets, like traditional music stores, radio, regular online distributors, cable music channels, etc.

Most of the good stuff won't be on a physical disc; in fact a lot of the good stuff won't fit on a disc. It'll be online.

Adriatic (DJ from the former Yugoslavia)
DJ Serhan (from Istanbul)
Voyi (from Budapest)
TufTribe (from Miami)
Suzy Solar (from Tampa Bay)
Fatima Hajji (from Spain)
DJ Trinity (from New York)
Cosmic Ally (from Seoul)

Well, heck, I could go on and on. Point is, some listeners will like some of it, some will like none of it, and some will like all of it. But until it is heard, one can only comment out of ignorance.

As I recall, my parents didn't want to hear the Beatles, Stones, Who, Led Zep, Deep Purple, etc. because "it's not music."

scott fitlin
12-18-2008, 09:00 PM
Scott's right, you have to dig a little to find the treasure, but it's not that hard to uncover. You just have to move away from the typical outlets, like traditional music stores, radio, regular online distributors, cable music channels, etc.

Most of the good stuff won't be on a physical disc; in fact a lot of the good stuff won't fit on a disc. It'll be online.

Adriatic (DJ from the former Yugoslavia)
DJ Serhan (from Istanbul)
Voyi (from Budapest)
TufTribe (from Miami)
Suzy Solar (from Tampa Bay)
Fatima Hajji (from Spain)
DJ Trinity (from New York)
CosMic Ally (from Seoul)

Well, heck, I could go on and on. Point is, some listeners will like some of it, some will like none of it, and some will like all of it. But until it is heard, one can only comment out of ignorance.

As I recall, my parents didn't want to hear the Beatles, Stones, Who, Led Zep, Deep Purple, etc. because "it's not music."My mom also. BUT, my mom does acknowledge that the people like what I play, and that the sound system is crystal clear, even tho too intense for her.

My mom does not particularly care for the dance music made today, however, she does seem to hear, and understand that I perform it, not just play it, and that I find music that is has an energy, as well as a certain sophistication, and some tunes a dark, sinnister sound that matches my personality. Some things I play sound so cool, and yet, melodic, but evil, sinnister, driving sounds. You look at me, and the music fits the visual, but also the ride! SIMON BAR SINNISTER SAYS.......................

My mother and I do not always agree on music, but one thing my mom always has said of how I play, and what I play, is that I have composition, and find things with sophisticated melodies, amidst a form of music she can't stand. Then there are always 2 or TEN tunes she asks me to record to CD for her, I manage to catch even her ears with something I have, found thru my hours of scouring the musical outlets here and abroad!

There is music out there, and now, just as it was then, RADIO is commercial drivel.

And then, some of the recordings from the techno and trance genres of music, MOST DEFINITELY DO SHOW THE VERY BEST OF WHAT JBL IS!

Allanvh5150
12-18-2008, 11:47 PM
No, sorry, got to disagree here.

Now, the typical stuff heard on the radio can be a bit cheesey, or just downright lame, BUT, I find trance, stuff that has much melody, and IS music, IN EVERY SENSE!

Check out A trance tune called Sunday Morning Walk by Arney S, available at www.beatport.com (http://www.beatport.com). IT IS NOT NOISE! It's music, and this is why I can play the music I do, because i SEARCH for my music, thru tons of pop music ca-ca, and in general mediocre wannabe drivel, BUT, there is certainly music in every genre, and every type of music style.

You cannot judge these genres, by what you hear on the radio stations. Because what a GREAT DJ plays in a club, is so vastly different from commercial cheesey radio tunes.

There is another level, the next plateau, a HIGHER STATE OF BEING!

And some very symphonic, and orchestral sounding, well made, musical, high quality, AMAZINGLY well produced trance, techno, and house music, BUT you don't hear it on the radio, XM, or Sirius!

I listened but I found myself wondering "can I sing along to this? can I whistle along to this"? Trance is very simple chord patternss with a drum beat similar to most other tunes but it has no melody at all. I am not saying it is noise, it isnt, but for me if there is no melody line to at least whistle to it doesnt have a lot of merit. I have a BA in music and have worked as a professional musician for nearly 30 years so it is an informed decision. But hey, it was just a wind up.:)

Ducatista47
12-19-2008, 12:09 AM
OK, I'll have to listen to more of it. But so far, It seems like a "perfect" combination of Dance Trax, DDR, Ambient and New Age. That is, the vapid worst of each. Maybe if I preferred cotton candy to vegetable soup I would like it. Please explain to me why I would be spending what time I have left on Earth listening to this instead of John Coltrane or Sun House?

It is so synthetic I am reminded of Dustin Hoffman in The Graduate being taken aside to reveal to him that the future is - Plastics! Well, they say YMMV and mine sure does.

Clark

hjames
12-19-2008, 02:37 AM
There is music out there, and now, just as it was then, RADIO is commercial drivel.

Of course, it all depends on your tastes, but I beg to differ.
In the 70s around DC, we actually had real good local FM radio ... WHFS (Commercial, but "granola rock" with a heavy dose of blues, folk and such), campus radio WGTB (Georgetown U), WCVT (Univ of Towson, MD) - but yes, nowadays its all crap.

scott fitlin
12-19-2008, 02:42 AM
Its not reaLLY SING ALONG, nor do I say anyone has to spend their time listening to this over Coltrane, etc!

All Im saying is that their is musical sounding stuff, even if it is synthetic, there is also CRAP, too. But there is some really good sounding music, and it's danceable to.

NOW, if one wants to DANCE?

Coltrane is great music, but Coltrane won't fill my dancefloor.

OTOH, late one night, around 3AM on a summer Saturday, running last ride, with 40 people, and I played The Beatles- Let It Be. THIS is REAL music, and good stuff, right?

On e teenager passed a comment to me, " What is this old, tired garbage "? Someone else told him it was The beatles, and that he should listen and learn, its not garbage. He was like NAH FUK DAT!

Point is, everyone hears what THEY hear. Opinion varies, we don't all think the same, TODAYS stuff isnt yesterdays stuff, and you don't HAVE TO listen to it, but, don't trash it either.

Titanium Dome
12-19-2008, 05:05 AM
Maybe if I preferred cotton candy to vegetable soup I would like it. Please explain to me why I would be spending what time I have left on Earth listening to this instead of John Coltrane or Sun House?


Clark

You shouldn't. As long as you have those mental models, there's really no point. Your resistance will just create more tension for you, and who needs that, right?

"When you do what you've always done, you'll be where you've always been." YMMV. ;)

Krunchy
12-19-2008, 05:37 AM
Scott's right, you have to dig a little to find the treasure. You just have to move away from the typical outlets, like traditional music stores, radio, regular online distributors, cable music channels, etc.

Most of the good stuff won't be on a physical disc; in fact a lot of the good stuff won't fit on a disc. It'll be online.

That first sentence, for me at least, applies to almost all types of music.
I was fortunate enough to become good friends with a college buddy of mine who was and is very eccentric (he was referred to as "Jello" on campus) but who introduced me to a lot of music that I was totally unaware even existed and for that I am eternally grateful to him...good old Jello. :D If it wasnt for him I wouldnt be as open to new musical genres as I am today. & obviously, I wont like all of it but I am sure I'll find some stuff there that will bring me lots of musical pleasure.

On the second bold, that seems to be pretty common from what I have come across recently, most of the material was either mp3's or flac (a term I had never heard till recently. I am a little bit dissapointed by this fact as I like to have a physical tangible source but this is, unfortunately for me, the way things are, oh well!

Thanks for the list!

Titanium Dome
12-19-2008, 05:42 AM
I listened but I found myself wondering "can I sing along to this? can I whistle along to this"? Trance is very simple chord patternss with a drum beat similar to most other tunes but it has no melody at all. I am not saying it is noise, it isnt, but for me if there is no melody line to at least whistle to it doesnt have a lot of merit. I have a BA in music and have worked as a professional musician for nearly 30 years so it is an informed decision. But hey, it was just a wind up.:)

And a nice one, too.

I have no idea what you've listened to, but let's take your informed yet closed opinion in another direction for a moment. If you were to go to iTunes, eMusic or some other site and listen to the top 100 pop downloads, how many would you be able to whistle to and sing to? Most, probably. Now, why would you want to? It meets your limited definition of music, but it's barely palatable. (To me; you might like it.)

However, through some careful discovery in the genre of pop music, you might find 100 songs that are not on the charts that not only have chord patterns, drum beats, melody, sing-ability, and whistle-ability but soul, originality, creativity, and passion as well.

Based on what represents the most commercially promoted stuff in the category, would you deny the entire category?

Some folks listen to one or two snippets from Bach or Beethoven and immediately reject an entire genre. That kind of musical narrowness is not a trait that garners the respect of people who consider themselves educated and cultured. Nonetheless, it's often the same kind of musical narrowness that defines each generation as it decries the next generation's music while desperately clinging to what it knows and likes with a similar narrow prejudice.

scott fitlin
12-19-2008, 06:37 AM
That first sentence, for me at least, applies to almost all types of music.
I was fortunate enough to become good friends with a college buddy of mine who was and is very eccentric (he was referred to as "Jello" on campus) but who introduced me to a lot of music that I was totally unaware even existed and for that I am eternally grateful to him...good old Jello. :D If it wasnt for him I wouldnt be as open to new musical genres as I am today. & obviously, I wont like all of it but I am sure I'll find some stuff there that will bring me lots of musical pleasure.

On the second bold, that seems to be pretty common from what I have come across recently, most of the material was either mp3's or flac (a term I had never heard till recently. I am a little bit dissapointed by this fact as I like to have a physical tangible source but this is, unfortunately for me, the way things are, oh well!

Thanks for the list!YUP!

And, even though not every track out there will be EVERYONES fav, to shut yourself down and not be open to what's new, or whats unkown to you only excludes you from finding things, or music or whatever that you might enjoy. The rest of the world goes on, finds new and exciting things to do, new and wonderful new music to listen or dance to. The onlyone who wouldn't be enjoying themselves and hearing new music would be you. I am online in the dance music sites EVERY DAY! I DON"T BUY EVERY NEW REALEASE, either! I BUY what I LIKE! And i find music that is great, and pass up music I think is crap. But, I totally agree, I would never know what is out there if I just dismissed the entire gnre because of 1 tune i didn't like.

MP3, and the entire download scene! Yeah, me too! I grew up playing records. With vinyl, you have something in your hands, to put on your turntable, album covers to look at, liner notes to read, the whole hands on requirements of playing vinyl, and I also wasn't too keen on this new VIRTUAL product format!

Till one day I really had no other choice but to use it, and once I had my computers set up, Serato, and my technics SLDZ-1200 CD turntables, and the fact that IT SOUNDS GREAT and found out HEY this IS fun! I use CD TT,s that look like the old turntables, they have platters that look just like the old TT,s, and I can use the platter to cue up, work the mix by hand, a pitch control to tempo match, Serato screen on my computer shows whats going on, library of music to scroll through, adjustments to calibrate, and correct sound. And MOST of ALL? I have TONS OF MUSIC TO PLAY, to ENTERTAIN PEOPLE, ENJOY MYSELF, and THE NEW TECHNOLOGY WORKS, AND SOUNDS GREAT! And will continue to evolve and improve, and get even better.

Bottom line, things today are different than they were in 1970, or 1980! But, things in 1980 were different than they were in 1950, or 1940, too. My parents said to me of the things I liked in `80 it wasn't like what it was when they............

But the world happened anyway! Always did, and always will.

And we certainly did have fun in `80, as my dad had in `50, and I AM having fun, and enjoying music in `08, despite that it's different than when I was 18yrs old in `80!

scott fitlin
12-19-2008, 06:42 AM
And a nice one, too.

I have no idea what you've listened to, but let's take your informed yet closed opinion in another direction for a moment. If you were to go to iTunes, eMusic or some other site and listen to the top 100 pop downloads, how many would you be able to whistle to and sing to? Most, probably. Now, why would you want to? It meets your limited definition of music, but it's barely palatable. (To me; you might like it.)

However, through some careful discovery in the genre of pop music, you might find 100 songs that are not on the charts that not only have chord patterns, drum beats, melody, sing-ability, and whistle-ability but soul, originality, creativity, and passion as well.

Based on what represents the most commercially promoted stuff in the category, would you deny the entire category?

Some folks listen to one or two snippets from Bach or Beethoven and immediately reject an entire genre. That kind of musical narrowness is not a trait that garners the respect of people who consider themselves educated and cultured. Nonetheless, it's often the same kind of musical narrowness that defines each generation as it decries the next generation's music while desperately clinging to what it knows and likes with a similar narrow prejudice.ON POINT!

And you know what I JUST HAVE TO SAY? Ti is older than I am, and just as I post about people having come into my establishment, people in my parents age group, and they have commented they don't really like this music, or like loud sound, BUT MINE is different, and my sound is clear, and even though they don't like this music when they hear it elsewhere, they LOVE it in my place! So, new music is not limited to specific age groups, only we limit ourselves.

Guys, you can find new and enjoyable music. No, you wont like every song, or track, BUT IF you don't prejudge, and dismiss based on a single experience, you can find things you enjoy!

+1 for Dome!

:thmbsup:

Ducatista47
12-19-2008, 08:57 AM
You shouldn't. As long as you have those mental models, there's really no point. Your resistance will just create more tension for you, and who needs that, right?

"When you do what you've always done, you'll be where you've always been." YMMV. ;)

Not resistance to a form, rather still seeking the good stuff. I have had no trouble through the years finding music in the New Age and Ambient bins that was more than mindless dance music. Clever at least and stimulating of something besides just my feet. Even DDR and pure dance music have their place, i.e. if you are DDR-ing or dancing. But you are talking about just listening to this music.

Sure, it is music, but since our time on Earth is limited, I personally have never understood why, given a choice, choosing something less rather than more stimulating to my lower and higher functions is a choice that makes sense. Why settle for less when I can have it all? Bear in mind that the music you are talking about is, to most ears, less noisy and strident than most of what I listen to. This is not some old fart saying "Turn that noise down, it's not music."

This is obviously a statement of my problem, but I define it in the hopes of raising the level of interaction with life for all, not just myself. I know some kids will always prefer seeing Saw III to a John Ford film, but I hope you don't blame me for trying to have a little influence on them.:)

By the way, far from doing what I have always done, the only reason I know about what I like and what I don't enjoy is relentless exploration and experimentation. I listen to something new almost every night. And if the first listen or two does not ring my bell, I am sure to give it a couple of more tries.

Clark

scott fitlin
12-19-2008, 09:41 AM
Clark, go to www.beatport.com, when you have as bit of free time, click the genres button, the next screen shows all the various genres, click "Chill Out" and browse through this section.

This is Ambient, who knows what you may find?

Just try it, what do you got to lose? 10 minutes! :D

Titanium Dome
12-19-2008, 11:53 AM
Not resistance to a form, rather still seeking the good stuff. I have had no trouble through the years finding music in the New Age and Ambient bins that was more than mindless dance music. Clever at least and stimulating of something besides just my feet. Even DDR and pure dance music have their place, i.e. if you are DDR-ing or dancing. But you are talking about just listening to this music.

Sure, it is music, but since our time on Earth is limited, I personally have never understood why, given a choice, choosing something less rather than more stimulating to my lower and higher functions is a choice that makes sense. Why settle for less when I can have it all? Bear in mind that the music you are talking about is, to most ears, less noisy and strident than most of what I listen to. This is not some old fart saying "Turn that noise down, it's not music."

This is obviously a statement of my problem, but I define it in the hopes of raising the level of interaction with life for all, not just myself. I know some kids will always prefer seeing Saw III to a John Ford film, but I hope you don't blame me for trying to have a little influence on them.:)

By the way, far from doing what I have always done, the only reason I know about what I like and what I don't enjoy is relentless exploration and experimentation. I listen to something new almost every night. And if the first listen or two does not ring my bell, I am sure to give it a couple of more tries.

Clark

Great response, Clark, and well worth reading.

You know, Coltrane has a big spot on the shelf of my music library, but some of his stuff just absolutely turns me off, and I can see if someone heard that material first, they might dismiss his whole catalog.

Likewise, I'm a huge fan of Stan Kenton, and I've collected some rare and unusual Kenton bits over the years, but he's done some things I absolutely can't stand, no matter how much I try to like them. If I had heard some of his "on the edge" stuff before I became a fan I might have never listened to the rest.

Scotty and the old man (me) obviously found a whole world of music that exists outside (and maybe in spite of) the traditional music culture. It was bred in the depths of old Amigas and Commodores and Moogs, grew up in Macs and PCs, and blew the doors off with the advent of the Internet, myriad codecs, electronic distribution, musical subculture globalization, and the self immolation of the record business.

Maybe one of the difficulties is in the actual experiences we have. I'm sure we've been to concert halls and heard the great orchestras, ensembles, choirs and soloists. We've been to the small clubs to hear the jazz players, the singers, the bands; to the stadiums to hear the big rock concerts or country artists, or pop divas; to the park to hear the blue grass players and the ethnic groups and the Pops Orchestra; to the bar for a power trio or a smooth jazz duo, etc.

What most of us haven't done is go to a real trance venue or top flight dance club. We haven't heard this music in all its uncompressed glory, DJed by a top flight musical genius who takes each song and makes it anew on the spot to fit the club, the audience, the mood, the event. Listen to those Crowns heat up as they drive those JBLs to the limit but never beyond. Smell the perfume/sweat/sex/electric ozone in the air, along with the heat, the motion, the assimilation, the liberation, the unity.

That probably has a lot to do with how I feel about it, just like the first time I saw The Who, the Grateful Dead, Andrea Bocelli, Sting, Phil Keaggy (who?), or the Cleveland Symphony.

I envy Scotty that he gets to create this at his own place.

scott fitlin
12-19-2008, 12:53 PM
Great response, Clark, and well worth reading.

You know, Coltrane has a big spot on the shelf of my music library, but some of his stuff just absolutely turns me off, and I can see if someone heard that material first, they might dismiss his whole catalog.

Likewise, I'm a huge fan of Stan Kenton, and I've collected some rare and unusual Kenton bits over the years, but he's done some things I absolutely can't stand, no matter how much I try to like them. If I had heard some of his "on the edge" stuff before I became a fan I might have never listened to the rest.

Scotty and the old man (me) obviously found a whole world of music that exists outside (and maybe in spite of) the traditional music culture. It was bred in the depths of old Amigas and Commodores and Moogs, grew up in Macs and PCs, and blew the doors off with the advent of the Internet, myriad codecs, electronic distribution, musical subculture globalization, and the self immolation of the record business.

Maybe one of the difficulties is in the actual experiences we have. I'm sure we've been to concert halls and heard the great orchestras, ensembles, choirs and soloists. We've been to the small clubs to hear the jazz players, the singers, the bands; to the stadiums to hear the big rock concerts or country artists, or pop divas; to the park to hear the blue grass players and the ethnic groups and the Pops Orchestra; to the bar for a power trio or a smooth jazz duo, etc.

What most of us haven't done is go to a real trance venue or top flight dance club. We haven't heard this music in all its uncompressed glory, DJed by a top flight musical genius who takes each song and makes it anew on the spot to fit the club, the audience, the mood, the event. Listen to those Crowns heat up as they drive those JBLs to the limit but never beyond. Smell the perfume/sweat/sex/electric ozone in the air, along with the heat, the motion, the assimilation, the liberation, the unity.

That probably has a lot to do with how I feel about it, just like the first time I saw The Who, the Grateful Dead, Andrea Bocelli, Sting, Phil Keaggy (who?), or the Cleveland Symphony.

I envy Scotty that he gets to create this at his own place.What an excellent post! You compose your words as equally well as I think you compose your sets of music. I can tell you put thought, feeling, emotion, and READING your crowd, by the way you speak. Same manner I speak in, when I speak about how I DJ, what is going on in my mind, what i try to, and do achieve. YOU DO HAVE AN OPEN INVITATION TO PLAY ON MY SYSTEM IF YOUR IN NYC, during spring or summer! I already had openly said this in another thread in the forum.

When I said OLDER THAN I AM, I meant, as in here is someone who is a bit older than myself, and is also INTO this new culture, modern technology, and new music! As many will say the new music is the mindless music of the younger generation and they can't understand it, or why anyone likes it. Simply put, I'm 46, I LOVE IT, your a bit older, not that much I don't think, SEEMS like you LOVE IT TOO! That's cool, and shows I am not alone in my thinking! :D

The music and the sound, well, so much goes on in a great evening, some tracks selected at a particular moment in an evening for its sleazy, sexy, pretty sound. Creating a sexually charged vibe, people start dancing and grinding close up against each other.

Other tracks for their throbbing high energy LETS DANCE feeling.

Some for their dark, deeeeep, sinnister, hypnotic and frantic SUPERCHARGED PEAK HOUR ENERGY! MAKE EM SWEAT!

Tracks chosen to play at a time the feeling seems right for the happy, but quality vocals they have, time to make people smile, be happy, and know we are having a party!

Anthem Vocals and Party Tune HITS, at right moment to create HAPPY SMILING HANDS IN THE AIR PARTY VIBE! This is the Sing -A- Long moments!

How to weave a tapestry in sound, song, and music, is the art. It IS a conversation, a dialogue if you will between myself and everyone at the party.

We journey through space and time, a trip through our emotions, feelings, a chance to see inside our minds. The musical journey around the world, for the brief time spent inside a club, on the dancefloor, the GREAT DJ tells his/her tale, a story of ALL IS WELL, EVERYONE IS HAPPY, THE WORLD IS AT PEACE, WE ARE ALL ONE, and we go home after the nights journey in a physical and mental state of well being!

MUSIC AND DANCING AT A CLUB CAN BE AND IS AN INTIMATE GATHERING WITH MYSELF AND 2500 OF MY CLOSEST FRIENDS!

The rhythm of the grooooove! :bouncy:

SEAWOLF97
12-19-2008, 05:11 PM
I know very little of the genre , but always liked Jean-Michel Jarre "Oxygene" , is this considered trance ??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxyg%C3%A8ne

Allanvh5150
12-19-2008, 06:02 PM
I know very little of the genre , but always liked Jean-Michel Jarre "Oxygene" , is this considered trance ??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxyg%C3%A8ne

No, that is considered music.:)

Ducatista47
12-19-2008, 07:40 PM
You know, Coltrane has a big spot on the shelf of my music library, but some of his stuff just absolutely turns me off, and I can see if someone heard that material first, they might dismiss his whole catalog.
Well, that is one small difference between us. I also get very high on his most out there stuff. The French concert found on the second CD of some editions of A Love Supreme is a good example. If I put it on with family or company here it would clear the place out. I can't get enough of it. I put on Stellar Regions to relax!

To me, Trance is not loud and proud or for youth instead of their timid parents. I think it just limps along or lies there like a wet noodle. Given that it is attempting to be high energy, I think it fails miserably. Like Disco, loud but limp. I am tempted to say flaccid. If music wants to really light a fire it need a lot more than beats and volume. Well, there was that time in a Disco in Champaign years ago. A lesbian couple was making out in a big chair and a couple of minutes later they were having a fistfight. But I don't suppose the passion was incited by the music...

But that is me, I have not heard it in a club, and I am very happy that it has a following and gets fans high.

Phil Keaggy (who?)Who smoo. Do you mean in Glass Harp, his E-bow solo era, the acoustic stuff, his work with his wife?

Clark

Titanium Dome
12-19-2008, 09:31 PM
Who smoo. Do you mean in Glass Harp, his E-bow solo era, the acoustic stuff, his work with his wife?

Clark

That be the guy.

scott fitlin
12-20-2008, 07:36 AM
I listened but I found myself wondering "can I sing along to this? can I whistle along to this"? Trance is very simple chord patternss with a drum beat similar to most other tunes but it has no melody at all. I am not saying it is noise, it isnt, but for me if there is no melody line to at least whistle to it doesnt have a lot of merit. I have a BA in music and have worked as a professional musician for nearly 30 years so it is an informed decision. But hey, it was just a wind up.:)Also depends on WHICH mix of any particular song, or track your listening to.

Simply put, at the beatport site, if one clicks on the title of the tune, another page opens, and shows all the available mixes of a tune. Now, you mighthave two or three mixes, Original Mix, Instr. Mix, and Radio Mix, OR you might have a tune, with up to ten differdnt mixes of a single title tune! Or you might find a tune from an artist YOU DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT! It happens this way.

This is what I mean when I talk about SEARCHING! There IS music, but, UNLIKE 20 years ago, THERES MUCH MORE TO CHOOSE FROM!

Finding music today is a job, in itself, BUT, I FIND MINE! I DO!

:bouncy:

Ducatista47
12-20-2008, 11:22 AM
... most of the material was either mp3's or flac (a term I had never heard till recently. I am a little bit dissapointed by this fact as I like to have a physical tangible source but this is, unfortunately for me, the way things are, oh well!

FLAC is the file sharer's friend. I think it stands for Free Lossless Audio Codec. Just download the FLAC frontend tool and you can code and decode.

The two main competitors are .ape (Monkey's Audio is the tool source) and WavPack (.wv, the tool is WavPack frontend). WavPack is the simplest, FLAC seems to attract higher class music, APE is the most popular right now.

All are lossless compression technologies, yielding CD quality playback. If you want to burn a disc, decode the file first. It usually sounds better than decoding on the fly by the burning software - Winamp, Nero, etc. These players will play the files without prior decoding. Just download the proper tool, usually third party software.

There are other systems. This is a great page: http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Lossless_comparison

Clark

SEAWOLF97
12-20-2008, 12:36 PM
I dont know about how to classify it , but was just listening to
Sumi Jo doing "Vocalise" (the theme from Ninth Gate ) and it always puts me in a trance...:blink:

(Shes cute too)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumi_Jo

"She also provided a vocalise for the soundtrack (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soundtrack) of The Ninth Gate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ninth_Gate), composed by Wojciech Kilar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wojciech_Kilar). The main theme of this film is based on a piece by Camille Saint-SaŽns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camille_Saint-Sa%C3%ABns)."

Krunchy
12-20-2008, 01:28 PM
The two main competitors are .ape (Monkey's Audio is the tool source) and WavPack (.wv, the tool is WavPack frontend). WavPack is the simplest, FLAC seems to attract higher class music, APE is the most popular right now.

All are lossless compression technologies, yielding CD quality playback. If you want to burn a disc, decode the file first. It usually sounds better than decoding on the fly by the burning software - Winamp, Nero, etc. These players will play the files without prior decoding. Just download the proper tool, usually third party software.
Clark

Hi Clark!
Thanks for the info, I was doing some research yesterday on some of this stuff. I guess at some point I'll have to take the plunge with all these new formats, it was/is innevitable I suppose.
CD quality playback you say, I like that :)!

scott fitlin
12-20-2008, 02:49 PM
Hi Clark!
Thanks for the info, I was doing some research yesterday on some of this stuff. I guess at some point I'll have to take the plunge with all these new formats, it was/is innevitable I suppose.
CD quality playback you say, I like that :)!:thmbsup:

Ducatista47
12-20-2008, 06:33 PM
Hi Clark!
Thanks for the info, I was doing some research yesterday on some of this stuff. I guess at some point I'll have to take the plunge with all these new formats, it was/is innevitable I suppose.
CD quality playback you say, I like that :)!
I should elaborate that the playback or burned disc is CD quality if the full audio file was compressed when it was created. One could - and some do - losslessly compress an mp3, for instance, and when decoded a lossy mp3 is the result. Pointless, but it happens. So FLAC, .ape or .wv is not a guarantee.

These programs are much, much better for music than compressors not designed for audio (like Winzip). All three of these developers are really on the ball. Most tools are very efficient and compact. The FLAC frontend, my favorite, is only a 30kb download! I keep a folder on the desktop with shortcuts to all three frontends.

Here are the sites to get the software. The first page linked will in each case be the portal:

http://flac.sourceforge.net/
http://flac.sourceforge.net/download.html
http://members.home.nl/w.speek/flac.htm

http://www.monkeysaudio.com/

http://www.wavpack.com/
http://www.wavpack.com/downloads.html

Notice the plugins for Winamp, Nero, etc. All these tools are no charge, but feel free to donate.

Clark

Ducatista47
12-21-2008, 11:57 AM
I realize I am pissing in the wind, but does it also make sense to you fellow forumites that for pay download sites should offer lossless download formats?

Since most legal sites charge for the downloads - fair enough, artists should be paid - I think they should at least offer the option for buyers who favor fidelity over compactness.

The reason why I think my urine stream is aimed squarely upwind? We hifi folks are probably outnumbered one hundred to one, at least?

As Dome would point out, Apple is leading the way with ALAC offerings. But I would favor FLAC, .ape and WavPack over limited, proprietary systems like Apple Lossless.

Clark

scott fitlin
12-21-2008, 01:45 PM
BOTH Beatport and Traxsource offer WAV files, as well. More expensive, and they take alot of HD and STORAGE SPACE!

I am buying THREE 1TB external storages to warehouse my old, not current music. And 1 also needs a considerably large HD in the computer, which I have, and am going larger, YES, I AGREE WAV, FLAC, and the future can, do, and will continue to sound better than Apple Lossless.

hjames
12-21-2008, 03:36 PM
BOTH Beatport and Traxsource offer WAV files, as well. More expensive, and they take alot of HD and STORAGE SPACE!

I am buying THREE 1TB external storages to warehouse my old, not current music. And 1 also needs a considerably large HD in the computer, which I have, and am going larger, YES, I AGREE WAV, FLAC, and the future can, do, and will continue to sound better than Apple Lossless.

STORAGE SPACE is cheap, I just bought a replacement SATA drive for my TIVOHD -
a Seagate Pipeline 7200 1 TB drive with 32 megs of cache for $135 - unbelievable!
After the first of the year I'll start converting my G4 MAC's external storage
from Firewire 800 with dual parallel ATA drives
to USB2 and dual SATA drives - they are larger and faster ...

scott fitlin
12-21-2008, 05:29 PM
I know, but my point is that THEY ARE OFFERING WAV, and actually have been for quite some time, now.

I hear a big difference from MP3 to WAV, other guys I know say they can't hear it. But, in order to download WAV YOU NEED SPACE, and the typical Apple G4 isn't enough anymore, and the Serato program was written for the G4, and is why it never worked as well on Windows.

Im going with Seagate as well, commercial duty, high speed, 500GB HD, and a Macbook Pro 17. AND 2 or 3 1TB external storages. Right now i have over 15,000 tunes crammed into the dinky G4! My new MacBook pro will be here next week.

Heather, I just am aware that some people can't, won't, or don't spend extra, IF they can get the same thing for a dollar less, even though maybe not as good. My music in WAV is $1.00 more per track than the same tune MP3, AND the sites have an extra handling charge when you buy WAV, too.

Now $1.00 seems innocent enough, BUT, in the long run, it adds UPPPP! My music bills are HIGH. IF IT's HOTTT, I GOTTA HAVE IT, and, let me tell you, I am spending MORE money NOW then I ever did back in the day, for vinyl. When I first got into the game a domestic 12in single was $2.49 and $2.99, Imports were $3.99 and $4.99, and back then I used to spend about $125/wk, + $60.00 monthly membership dues for the record pool I belonged to. In Miami, from `89 tom `95, I averaged around $300.00/wk on vinyl, but now that i was spinning in a club, a famous club, I also got a good amount of pre release and special mixes direct from the record labels, free. 12in Import vinyl cost around $7.99 and $8.99.

NOW today, at $1.99 and $2.49, and $3.99 a track, its cheaper, right? BUT there's so much music out there now, and my average weekly spend for music is around $500/wk,and have weeks that exceed this, too. IF THERES FERROCIOUS STUFF I GOTTA HAVE IT! I'm buying huge volume, it's more costly than when they had to actually work to make product. And it is instantly available, OH IM A MUSIC JUNKIE!

But the technology is gettin GOOOOD,and IT'S FUN TO USE, and SOUNDS GOOD!

Heather, come down this summer and visit, Im also getting another DJ software program, either Traktor or Ableton, and Heath, once you see and hear what you can do with this stuff, used the right way, GAME OVER!

Heather U wanna come rock the house? I let u drive my train! IT'S AN EXPERIENCE! Then you'll know why DJ,s are sooo nutz and why I am as passionate about what I do, as well.

C'mon down, I get you a hot dog and fries! :D



:dj-party:

Titanium Dome
12-22-2008, 08:19 AM
Scott et al

In 1969-72 I was the manager of the college radio station. I used to get deluged with swag (T-shirts, posters, statues, cardboard stand up displays, exclusive vinyl singles, special color LPs, picture LPs, etc.). I'd even get free radio interviews over the phone with bored stars like Elton John, Grace Slick, Paul Kantner, John Lord, Papa John Creach, Paul Butterfield, and so on.

The biggest thrill in all this was talking to Memphis soulster Isaac Hayes, who was not only a good guest, but when he finally believed I was really into his groove he was pretty prescient about two big developments in music: rap and dance. His influence is unmistakable in both. He didn't use those terms at the time, but he rapped on "...To Be Continued" and he helped usher in the Disco Era.

Some of the dance-flavored stuff he served up on a couple of demo tapes he sent me would play in most clubs today. Sadly, the tapes were ruined in a fire (along with a lot of the swag), but Isaac Hayes had a big influence on me making the musical moves I have, as he was such a great liberator of my musical mind.

Krunchy
12-22-2008, 05:25 PM
I should elaborate that the playback or burned disc is CD quality if the full audio file was compressed when it was created. One could - and some do - losslessly compress an mp3, for instance, and when decoded a lossy mp3 is the result. Pointless, but it happens. So FLAC, .ape or .wv is not a guarantee.
Clark

Hi guys, was off the grid this weekend.

Clark, thank you for your time and explanations and for the links, its very kind of you and I truly appreciate it. As with many things digital these days there seems to be so much to choose from. My only corncern (& thats not really the right word) with music download is that it looks like it could really add up. There was a great Simpsons episode where Lisa wracks up a $1,200.00 bill from iTunes & she did not even realize it.
Pretty funny stuff but there's plenty of truth to it I wager. Now with used cd sales on the net and even amazon, its tough for me to justify a buck a song (doesnt sound like a lot, as Scotty mentioned) when for a couple of more dollars I can have the whole CD, but thats just me. I would consider this new (to me :D) alternative only for music that I could not find on cd which is probably where we are heading anyway. Untill then! (dont tell anyone but, I dont even have an Ipod :blink: oh for shame!)

Also, as a casual music enjoyer, having instant access to a song/s is not that crucial, but for someone like Scotty & TD I can see how this would be an invaluable tool.
I'll take to it in time, like I take to most things....Kicking & Screaming :rotfl: :homer: :D :banghead:

SEAWOLF97
12-22-2008, 06:18 PM
I
NOW today, at $1.99 and $2.49, and $3.99 a track, its cheaper, right? BUT there's so much music out there now, and my average weekly spend for music is around $500/wk,and have weeks that exceed this, too. IF THERES FERROCIOUS STUFF I GOTTA HAVE IT! I'm buying huge volume, it's more costly than when they had to actually work to make product. And it is instantly available, OH IM A MUSIC JUNKIE!

gonna get worse when Patterson slaps a tax on them tunes :(

http://features.csmonitor.com/innovation/2008/12/17/new-yorks-proposed-itunes-tax/

Krunchy
12-23-2008, 04:55 AM
Tom, love your avatar :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

SEAWOLF97
12-24-2008, 06:16 AM
Tom, love your avatar :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

its NY also ...just at a younger stage of life...

Krunchy
12-24-2008, 06:20 AM
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :applaud: I knew it reminded me of somone.
Enjoy the snow!
:presents: :xmas::happyh:

The Dude
01-01-2009, 12:41 PM
Due to reading this thread the other night it got me raking through my cd's and today i found a couple of moby albums i hadn't listened to in years. Albums are "18" and "Play",and its the first time i played these albums since i got my sub.A couple of the tracks are a bit not my style,never were, but all my old favorites sounded amazing,really deep clear bass on a few of the tracks.:D