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HemiMoparGuy198
12-17-2008, 09:03 PM
Hi All,

I have posted a few questions about what would be ideal components for my HT system. Now I have a couple questions about speaker placement. I am posting a few screen shots of ideas I am contemplating with. The left, Right, and Center speakers are all 4647 with 2380/2445 on top that I am building boxes for. The TCB, is the 4688 model.

Any help is greatly appreciated, thank you

Ok, pics didn't show up, so I created a Zip file

Croc999
12-18-2008, 01:04 PM
i would keep mid+tweeters of sides and center at the same level.

BTW - if yor fronts have good soundstage you can ditch the center - set in the receiver/processor that you don't have a center speaker and it will reroute all center's sounds to the fronts.

SteveW
12-18-2008, 03:09 PM
This is the current bible of professional SS standards - from production to listening.

Note that the old 110 degree surround placement is not favored and doesn't produce the intended soundfield.

The center channel (when used) is primarily there to keep that phantom center from vanishing/shifting when your not dead center in the room. Usually, most of the vocal is placed there, and the center channel locks it in place.

Note the height of the speakers favored in production too. They are not on the floor.
http://www.aesnashville.org/PDFs/NARAS/5_1_Rec.pdf

HemiMoparGuy198
12-19-2008, 05:58 AM
Ok, so I've got one person saying LCR should be all the same height, which makes perfect sense; but I've got another person saying (with a reference) that they shouldn't be at floor level, which leads me to beleive that they should be placed at about 4-5 ft off the ground (the average height of your ears while seated,) which also makes perfect sense. Reading the booklet that was linked in this thread it says that speakers are located behind the video screen at theaters. I beleive it because I never see the huge speakers. However, doesn't that reflect, refract, and/or muffle the sound coming out?

So by place the speakers at 4-5 ft from the floor and the screen above the top of the speakers, the bottom of the screen would be 9 ft off the ground. Unless of course I go with the idea mentioned of eliminating the center channel, then I could place LR at 4-5 ft off ground, then screen between them. Or if it would be ok to have the speakers directly behind the screen without compromising the sound much.

More Ideas, anyone?

Croc999
12-19-2008, 09:22 AM
bare in mind that those recommendations are for recording environment - which is not always correct for listening room.

i didn't see their height recommendation - but exactly as in stereo - the tweeter is better to be placed aproximately at lsiteners' ear height.

regarding screens - they're perforated and "acoustically transparent".
those available also for private purchase - but quite costly.

9ft height for lower edge of the screen obviously is way too much....

HemiMoparGuy198
12-19-2008, 10:21 AM
I think the reference to the speaker height was mentioned about viewing the diagrams and that the speakers were not on th floor. A screen big enough for the projector I want...well, not quite big enough it is like 7" less than th max of the projector, the cheapest is over $900. So as of now it looks best to eliminate the center channel and have the speakers elevated and the projector aimed between the speakers on the white wall and keep a subwoofer or two under the screen.

But the more info the better, because when I build my house with my cinema room and put all brand new JBL/Crown top of the line stuff in there, I'll use a screen and have the speakers behind it. Thanks everyone who responded, but please keep the thoughts coming.

Mr. Widget
12-19-2008, 07:34 PM
However, doesn't that reflect, refract, and/or muffle the sound coming out? Yes it does... there are tricks to help, but it is not acoustically ideal, and a perforated screen isn't as bright as a solid screen. That said, it is the best choice for getting the sound "into" the picture. In my theater I placed all three speakers at floor level angled up slightly to reach ear level at the primary seating position. It worked quite well.


Widget

HemiMoparGuy198
12-19-2008, 08:07 PM
interesting. I think I like that idea. Lay them all horizontally and angled upward some kind of like monitor speakers in a stage setup. I have posted a pic of what I am thinking. Not the best drawing as I don't want to spend hours in AutoCAD to make it perfect, but just imagine the LCR angled like monitors (maybe not the exact same angle, as monitors are aimed for listening level at typically standing positions) And the TCB 4688's I am thinking of them pointing straight up, myabe even inlayed into the floor. So the TCB's are actually in a top view in my drawing. Hopefully this is clear enough for everyone to understand what I mean. What do you think about this arrangement? Better ideas, comments, anything?? Thanks Again

toddalin
12-20-2008, 11:32 AM
interesting. I think I like that idea. Lay them all horizontally and angled upward some kind of like monitor speakers in a stage setup. I have posted a pic of what I am thinking. Not the best drawing as I don't want to spend hours in AutoCAD to make it perfect, but just imagine the LCR angled like monitors (maybe not the exact same angle, as monitors are aimed for listening level at typically standing positions) And the TCB 4688's I am thinking of them pointing straight up, myabe even inlayed into the floor. So the TCB's are actually in a top view in my drawing. Hopefully this is clear enough for everyone to understand what I mean. What do you think about this arrangement? Better ideas, comments, anything?? Thanks Again

My solution:

http://www.largescaleonline.com/eimages/lsolpics/Team_Member_Pics/toddalin/room1.jpg

http://www.largescaleonline.com/eimages/lsolpics/Team_Member_Pics/toddalin/center-2235-w15gti.jpg

The center channel is ~6 cu ft and the subwoofer chamber is ~4 cu ft.

The potato masher will be replaced with an HL-92. (The HL91s in the L200 cabinets are also replaced with HL-92s.) This will replace the top center port and the existing hole for the masher will be sealed over. I may place the crossover controls on this panel. (Currently, you reach into the port to adjust the crossover controls which are located in the interior at the back of the center port.) This will place all of the woofers and horns for the L/C/R within about 1" of each other height-wise.

The four surrounds (front and rear for the big Yamahas) all use W10GTIs and 2425's on P-Audio cheeks.

http://www.largescaleonline.com/eimages/lsolpics/Team_Member_Pics/toddalin/index_0101.jpg

http://www.largescaleonline.com/eimages/lsolpics/Team_Member_Pics/toddalin/room4.jpg

http://www.largescaleonline.com/eimages/lsolpics/Team_Member_Pics/toddalin/room3.jpg

Mr. Widget
12-20-2008, 11:55 AM
Todd, why do you have your left and right front speakers so far away from the screen? In my experience this can get pretty weird sounding with some soundtracks. I think Hemi's approach in post 8 makes more sense... once he figures out where in the world he's going to put those two gigantic subs.


Widget

toddalin
12-20-2008, 12:03 PM
Todd, why do you have your left and right front speakers so far away from the screen? In my experience this can get pretty weird sounding with some soundtracks. I think Hemi's approach in post 8 makes more sense... once he figures out where in the world he's going to put those two gigantic subs.


Widget

Interference from the fireplace bricks. :banghead:

It's not ideal and the soundstage is a tad too wide. But, the fireplace bricks preclude me from moving the left channel closer to the screen, and if the speaker were to sit on the bricks, it would not only block the mirror/fireplace (aesthetics), but would also preclude me from opening the right side cabinet door (mechanics/logistics).

As it is, you will note that I raised the speakers by 3-1/2" so that I could let the cabinet portion overhang the bricks getting them just that much closer together. Believe me, I've seriously considered cutting off part of the plinth to move the speakers in closer. :biting:

http://www.largescaleonline.com/eimages/lsolpics/Team_Member_Pics/toddalin/room2.jpg

moparfan
12-20-2008, 03:21 PM
Depends somewhat on how the sounds propagates from your speakers. The sound from my speakers 4430 doesn't change nearly as much as it did with the more usual dome tweeters. That said, I have my speakers within 2 feet of a 42" plasma screen.

Some people say that a flat screen in the middle of two speakers does a job on the music reproduction, but I don't care enough to move stuff around to find out.

HemiMoparGuy198
12-20-2008, 03:43 PM
I think Hemi's approach in post 8 makes more sense... once he figures out where in the world he's going to put those two gigantic subs.


Widget

I was considering inlaying them into the floor. Also, I have not built my cinema room yet, I am trying to figure out an "ideal" system setup so I can design my room around it.

Mr. Widget
12-20-2008, 06:54 PM
I am trying to figure out an "ideal" system setup so I can design my room around it.That is smart!

Are you hardwired to that speaker compliment?


Widget

HemiMoparGuy198
12-21-2008, 07:36 AM
Are you hardwired to that speaker compliment?


Widget

Well, I already have two 4647's with the 2380/2445 on top. But the horns are just screwed on with some 90 angle brackets, I plan to build a box for them to make it look better. After some research (along with posting a couple other threads in here) I have found that it is best for a center channel to be the exact same as the LR. But I decided to add an extra horn on the center channel, so it looks more symetrical with the cabinet being horizontal and a horn on top (but being horizontal the horn is on the side) I want a horn on the other side as well. Either that or two speakers for center channel. Also I have my heart set on the 4688 for a sub due to some research and a thread here, and it just looks more symetrical to have 2 of them.