What kind of Cables are you using for your 4345s, or any type of Horn speakers ?

[jamdel]

Dear all,

What kind of speaker cables are you using for your 4345s, or any type of Horn speakers, to tone down the harshness and "In your face" kind of results ?
Is Nordost in your menu ?

Thanks for your reply...:)

[Mr. Widget]

What kind of speaker cables are you using for your 4345s, or any type of Horn speakers, to tone down the harshness and "In your face" kind of results ?I use horns that are very much not in my face... and I get the desired results with every wire I use... cheap basic copper is my preference.


Not to reinvigorate a flaming controversy, but if you are experiencing a sound that is hard, harsh, in your face etc... wire is not the solution. Using the proper electronics might help, but look at your speaker first. If you are using genuine JBL 4345s... they are helped by a bit of taming with an equalizer.

Bo has posted on several threads describing his experiences... I have heard the results and concur with his solutions.


Widget

[Robh3606]

Hello jamdel

I have 4344 clones and run them with standard good quality 12 ga. speaker wire. Nothing special. I agree with Widget look at the speakers first. They way they are designed they can peel paint if the levels are not correct on the midrange and compression drivers. I can adjust the L-Pads on my 4344's to make them sound like garbage if I want.

You could also have a problem with the L-Pads as well. I would write down the settings and run the L-Pads through there complete rotations a couple of times. That will clean the whiper on the pots. Return them to where they were and if it's still in you face turn down the horn in 1db steps. See if that helps.

If you can get your hands on an RTA to see how they look. You should be able to get them very flat if desired or roll them off a bit as well with just the L-Pad adjustments. The link shows you an in room RTA measurement of 4344.

http://www.audioheritage.org/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=102&cat=500&ppuser=23

Rob:)

[Tom Brennan]

I use whatever is handy---zip-cord, some Parts Express flat speaker wire I bought because it is....flat, that real skinny stuff that comes with a Sonic Impact amp and speakers---whatever.

[brutal]

No horns, but I'm starting to use 6moons DIY Whitelightning Moonshine cables. :D

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/whitelightning/moonshine.html

[mech986]

Be sure that your 4345's have the proper 2308 or L91 slant lenses over the midrange.

If you are really having trouble, you could also consider having the 2420 mid driver checked to see if the diaphragm is OK. If it need replacement, then consider a JBL aluminum unit or a titanium aquaplassed diaphragm.

Be sure the midbass driver is in good condition and the seals are all tight on all drivers.

Always check to see the speaker is operating at it normal and nominal designed parameters first.

Bart

[jcrobso]

I use whatever is handy---zip-cord, some Parts Express flat speaker wire I bought because it is....flat, that real skinny stuff that comes with a Sonic Impact amp and speakers---whatever.

I used 16ga zip cord or 14-2 power cable for years before all this fancy speaker wire came on the market. I'm not trying to start anything but any wire 16~12ga will do the job.
Horn speakers do have a tendency to sound in you face(it's there lot in life) at others have said try changing the L pads.:) John

[Doc Mark]

Morning, Jamdel,

When we first got our L300's home, the horns were WAY too much of a good thing, and very "in your face"!! They sounded harsh and "spitty" to both me and Sweet Bride. But, all it took to get them just right, was to crank them way down with the L-pads. A bit of experimenting, and we soon found the setting that makes them sing sweetly, and naturally, with no more harsh and "spitty" sound! If this doesn't work for you, then check out what the other guys have suggested, too. When they are working properly, and have been setup for your listening environment, they should not be "in your face", but should offer you wonderful dynamic range, and at the same time, sweet, natural sound. Good luck, have fun getting them dialed-in, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[scott fitlin]

I use basic, ordinary copper speaker wire, and actually thus far, prefer it to Monster, and other EXPRESSELY DESINGED FOR AUDIO speaker cable.

I will have to agree with Widget, if your horns sound harsh, look at your electronics, AND your speakers. And, also amps, horns are amp sensitive, a particular horn sounds great with one amp, and like trash with another, even though they may be of equal power ratings.

And also, but, not to start a controversy, I got my hands on a couple of rolls of 22awg, stranded copper, Western Electric cloth jacketed wire from way back to I dont know when, 1959, or something and made some interconnects from this. THIS IS NICE! Sweet, clear, no edginess, or brittle sound. Spent an ENTIRE day swithching back and forth with todays interconnects, EVERYONE likes the W.E. interconnects. So, I just let it be.

I am at a loss to explain why this might be, but, it is!

Call me crazy, :screwy:

[4343]

This whole thread reminds me of a friend, you know the kind that likes to tell long stories? I'll try to shorten it a bit, and leave out his name...

Seems this guy was working at a TV station at college, and happened to be at the right time and place to make "a lot of money". (For a college kid.)
When the station was moved to a new site, he was able to get "miles" of the old RJ-8? cable (not sure the model, but Belden, about 1/2" dia.) for free.

Being an enterprising kind of kid, he decided to try it on his speakers at home, and worked out a nice way to poke the center out the side of the braided shield, and finished it up with a nice heat-shrink and some lugs for the screw terminals. As kids will, he was always dragging his speakers around doing favors for people, and eventually met the owner of a "High-End" stereo store that started raving about his wires, asking where he got them, and can you get me more, etc. Remember, this is Belden Video Coax, so he was able to quote the specs (Flat to 50MHZ, etc.) to this person, and offered to let him try some in his store where the first batch sold out in record time, at record prices...

Long story short, he ended up putting his mom and aunts to work converting a garage full of old wire into cash...

Me, I just use whatever's cheap, although when it comes to 4-11 or 8-13, there's no such thing!

Lansing Content: This guy is a certified reconer, having attended both the Altec and JBL courses back when they were open to the public. Still works in television though...

[scott fitlin]

This whole thread reminds me of a friend, you know the kind that likes to tell long stories? I'll try to shorten it a bit, and leave out his name...

Seems this guy was working at a TV station at college, and happened to be at the right time and place to make "a lot of money". (For a college kid.)
When the station was moved to a new site, he was able to get "miles" of the old RJ-8? cable (not sure the model, but Belden, about 1/2" dia.) for free.

Being an enterprising kind of kid, he decided to try it on his speakers at home, and worked out a nice way to poke the center out the side of the braided shield, and finished it up with a nice heat-shrink and some lugs for the screw terminals. As kids will, he was always dragging his speakers around doing favors for people, and eventually met the owner of a "High-End" stereo store that started raving about his wires, asking where he got them, and can you get me more, etc. Remember, this is Belden Video Coax, so he was able to quote the specs (Flat to 50MHZ, etc.) to this person, and offered to let him try some in his store where the first batch sold out in record time, at record prices...

Long story short, he ended up putting his mom and aunts to work converting a garage full of old wire into cash...

Me, I just use whatever's cheap, although when it comes to 4-11 or 8-13, there's no such thing!I hear you.

Matter of fact, it's sort of similar, as my W.E. wire is old surplus telephone switchboard wire.

Go figure!

:dont-know

[4343]

I hear you.

Matter of fact, it's sort of similar, as my W.E. wire is old surplus telephone switchboard wire.

Go figure!

:dont-know

:applaud:
Maybe you're hearing residue from all the conversations that passed through that wire over the years! Sort of the Golden Era Lives On? If you listen real close to the silence between the music, can you hear voices? (Like putting your ear up against a telephone pole?):bouncy:

[scott fitlin]

:applaud:
Maybe you're hearing residue from all the conversations that passed through that wire over the years! Sort of the Golden Era Lives On? If you listen real close to the silence between the music, can you hear voices? (Like putting your ear up against a telephone pole?):bouncy:I mean, it was unused rolls of wire.

So, I don't think Im hearing things, but, who knows?

:D

[scott fitlin]

:applaud:
(Like putting your ear up against a telephone pole?):bouncy:I didn't play that game!

The game we played when we were 10yrs old, was when we stole the telophone pole climbing spikes from the telephone guys truck, and 6 of us had 25cent bets on who had the balls to climb the pole to the top!

Remember when people didn't used to lock their vehicle doors? :applaud:

[BMWCCA]

Remember when people didn't used to lock their vehicle doors? You don't mean I'm supposed to do that in my own driveway, do you? ;)

Living small in Central VA.

[boputnam]

I ... run ... standard good quality 12 ga. speaker wire. You've gotten lots of good advice.

I'm with Rob on this, and I use twisted-pair. Keep lengths the same and short as possible... :)

[SEAWOLF97]

Back in the days (1972/3 ?) that I didnt have 2 nickles to rub together :( and cudnt even afford RailroadShack speaker wire , somewhere I came up with a big roll of 4 (solid) wire telephone cable ( you know, that stuff with pink casing) ..anyway I ran it to a speaker and twisted 2 wires into one , for each terminal , surprisingly , it sounded very good....wouldnt hesitate to do it again , (after the upcoming depression)

[scott fitlin]

You don't mean I'm supposed to do that in my own driveway, do you? ;)

Living small in Central VA. YOU DON'T LIVE IN NYC, OBVIOUSLY!

Casuse if it aint nailed down, or locked up tight.....:banghead:

:rotfl:

[Tweak48]

I didn't play that game!

Remember when people didn't used to lock their vehicle doors? :applaud:

When I arrived in my small college town in 1972 (Logan, Utah), people left their keys in the car all the time, and never locked their front doors when they went to bed.

[robertbartsch]

I don't believe there is a shred of evidence that expensive cables provide ANY performance benefit except to the manufacturer.

Anyway, I try to use 18 gauge copper when ever I can.


If your diaphragms are old and of aluminum construction, try swapping them out with new units. Apparently, titanium diaphragms are much less subject to getting brittle with age.

[scott fitlin]

I don't believe there is a shred of evidence that expensive cables provide ANY performance benefit except to the manufacturer.

I don't know if there "ISN'T" a shred of evidence, because if you bench test a cable, there are measurable differences. Thats a fact, and many an engineer has said to me, YES, it's measurable but they didn't know if we could actually hear it or not.

For sure, a cable with high capacitance will affect high frequencies. And inductance is another thing that some cables have more of, and cables resistance baries among brands as well then another brand of cable.

My take is, todays high end cable companies strive to make cable with virtually nil capacitance, and nil inductance, and virtually nil resistance which explains to me why when I try a certain cable, the highs start to sound too bright or edgy to me, and also why some cables seem to sound like I bumped the gain up a hair, and others seem like a slight gain drop. It is also noticeable to me in my preamp volume and tone control knobs rersponse, If I put a Kimber cable between my Mixer and EQ,s, I dont have to push my volume control to the same setting as with a standard fare cable.

For me, YES, it is noticeable, BUT, DO I LIKE the results? That, to me, is the real question, and thus far, the answer is pretty much no to the 10 moderately expensive cables I tried!

OTOH, I, on a whim, bought a couple of rolls of that W.E. wire, and T & B spade lugs, and some switchcraft connectors, and made me some interconnects, the W.E. c;loth jacketed 22awg stranded wire, 50ft rolls, $11.00 ea, Switchcraft standard XLR, $3.00ea, T & B #6 spade lugs $8.95/box of 50, and THIS I like, alot. BUT, a fortune, IT DID NOT COST ME!

So, I say, to each their own, IF you found something YOU like, cool, use it.

However, I do feel many audio companies, and accessory manufacturers prey upon consumers vanity and ego, and snob appeal. Afterall, NOT just ANYONE can own a pair of the $2500 per meter, Uranass, Diameterically Opposed, Gynecologically Correct Flow Cables, Coated with Bullshitanium Oxide. Hmm, Yeah, Bob down the block won't be able to get THESE so fast, HMMPHF, he has to pay his mortage, and sons college tuition this month. I know he will be in agony once he sees what "I" have!

THAT'S what I think sells many a high priced unnecesary item in our culture!

:D

[Rolf]

Here Me. I have NEVER changed a product to this day if I can't hear a difference ... to the better. Sometimes a amp sounds better, a pre-amp, and so on.

Sometimes a cable sound better. Is this so strange? It's all of the change in the same chain.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Keep them short and stout if you can.

My own view is a quality cable is going to be better then cheap figure lamp flex. Years ago I used a Naim cable with a special OFC / drawn copper, no bones it was better then cheap lamp flex.

But these python cables are snake oil.

A lot of the differences are the effect of the cable on the amps, not the loudspeaker in terms of L / C / R that effect the performance of the amp..some more then others.

[BMWCCA]

I'm starting to use 6moons DIY Whitelightning Moonshine cables. :D

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/whitelightning/moonshine.htmlI'm about to make a set of four speaker cables for my bi-amped 4345s from this idea. Anyone have anything discouraging to say before I waste a perfectly good $7 outdoor extension cord on this project? :D

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/whitelightning/hero_intro.jpg

[MikeBrewster77]

Anyone have anything discouraging to say before I waste a perfectly good $7 outdoor extension cord on this project? :D


:no: but I do look forward to hearing your impressions once you have ;)

[Beowulf57]

Cables can make a difference, perhaps more so in low sensitivity speaker systems and less so with high sensitivity horns. Also cable design and positioning can have an effect, e.g., Naim made a cable with the two conductors parallel to each other separated by about 1/2"...hey, that's a capacitor and some amps didn't like it. Or, why not run your speaker cable close to and parallel to an AC power line...or perhaps coil it and see if you can create an inductor?

In the end with a sufficiently low resistance many simple wires will sound just fine and cleaning and re-tightening all connections will improve the sound more than one would have expected.

[opimax]

I have heard if you deep fry the power cord it is twice as good as the ones that are deep frozen and cost a bit more, please try it and get back to me :p

Mark

[tom1040]

Forget the cables & wires. Get a McIntosh amp/pre-amp. MC402 & C46 (or tube pre-amp) will 'help' with the "in your face" sound you seem to have.

At least it does for me & I have S2600 speakers.

[BMWCCA]

Forget the cables & wires. Get a McIntosh amp/pre-amp. MC402 & C46 (or tube pre-amp) will 'help' with the "in your face" sound you seem to have.

At least it does for me & I have S2600 speakers.Was someone complaining about something "in your face"?

I've had a Mac tube pre-amp for over 35 years. I don't use it in the main system. It's like an antique car that reminds us of how far we've come. :D

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c378/BMWCCA1/McIntoshC20.jpg

[frank23]

hmmm, a "what cables" thread, a recipe for high-end vs. plain copper works for me...

I use Van den Hul cs-122 for my low and high and Kimber 8TC for the mid driver. The 8TC sounds better than cs-122, but is much more expensive so that is why I use the 2x3m of 8TC that I have for my mid, the most critical part of the spectrum (200-1800Hz in my speakers).

For interlinks I use Van den Hul "The First" and "The Second" carbon cables.

I have an active 3-way system, that´s why I need to tri-amp and tri-wire.

Did the cables make it sound less harsh? They didn't need to in my case. I think interlinks can mess up your sound quite easily. Speaker cables do more with the ambience I think and do not create harshness. And I don't think you can EQ-out harshness. I think harshness is down to some factors you can influence like equipment and down to a factor that you can only influence if you are going for it. That factor is the crossover inside the speaker and its connections.

Btw., what is most important for good sound is good capacitors in your crossover and no "bi-amp" switches like JBL's sometimes have. Each capacitor type has its unique sound and I find our compression drivers are very sensitive to that. No wonder I think JBL itself is using biased capacitors (what is it called) in its high-end crossovers itself.

[MikeBrewster77]

(what is it called)

Charge-Coupled

[tom1040]

Quote: Was someone complaining about something "in your face"?


Yes. The OP.

[midlife]

I'm using vintage 1970s cables "included" with your cassette recorder purchase rca's. Lamp cord speaker wire. Intend to upgrade when the system gets to its permanent install. What are good connects & speaker cable that are reasonably priced. (ie; that I can afford to buy and not finance).

[BMWCCA]

Quote: Was someone complaining about something "in your face"?

Yes. The OP.Ahh yes; that post from nearly a year ago.

I was really only perpetuating the discussion as it referred to the 6Moons White Lightning Moonshine suggestion. I normally buy my speaker cable from Lowe's off the spool (they do have something they call "speaker wire" with the polarity marked) but using the $7 Wood's patio extension cord from WalMart actually costs less per running foot. To answer Midlife's question I think the Wood's wire is bulky enough to use the supply of Monster Pomona plugs I've collected that don't seem to maintain contact with conventional wire-by-the-foot. I get them at Best Buy and they seem cheap enough. Parts Plus has some good stuff, too. I'm really fascinated with the concept of Neutrik's dual-bananas but I haven't found them where the shipping doesn't cost more than the product.

http://images.bestbuy.com/BestBuy_US/images/products/3666/3666526_sa.jpg http://www.neutrik.com/client/neutrik/media/products/view/210_t2_486015338.jpg

[4313B]

but using the $7 Wood's patio extension cord from WalMart actually costs less per running foot.Make sure you know where that stuff is coming from! If it is anything like the drywall debacle in the housing industry you could be screwed dude... We don't know where any of this crap is coming from anymore... well, we do, what we don't know is what kinds of contaminants are in it. Remember where we dumped all our toxic waste? I think it's coming back to us in the form of Product.

[midlife]

Good suggession BMWCCA (I do like the clean look of those N'trik plugs), now how 'bout good bang for the buck/plug & play interconnects.

[Earl K]

Make sure you know where that stuff is coming from! If it is anything like the drywall debacle in the housing industry you could be screwed dude...

I didn't have a clue about the quoted reference, until I "googled" & got this ; Chinese Drywall Answers (http://www.chinese-drywall-answers.com/?p=455) .

Thanks for the heads-up .

<> cheers

[4313B]

I didn't have a clue about the quoted reference, until I "googled" & got this ; Chinese Drywall Answers (http://www.chinese-drywall-answers.com/?p=455) .

Thanks for the heads-up .

<> cheersI hadn't read that one yet. Thanks for the link.

The biennial event will focus on the safety of Chinese-made products sold in the U.S. The Chinese drywall disaster is just the latest scandal involving imports from that country. In 2008, nearly 80 percent of all product recalls in the U.S. involved imports from China. Products like dog food, baby formula, toys with lead paint and even pharmaceuticals like heparin have been found to have been made with toxic materials and other counterfeit ingredients putting U.S. consumers at risk.

You know... we could make a mint if we designed a hand-held partical scanner that the average Walmart shopper could use to scan products for undesirable materials.

Oh wait... http://www.azonano.com/news.asp?newsID=4827 :p

This could be a whole new growth industry. Kind of like the anti-virus industry is for the PC. :rotfl: I wonder if anyone has any inkling just how fortuitous the script-kiddies have been for employment opportunities. The day the hackers stop hacking is the day tens of thousands of people end up unemployed.

[Mr. Widget]

As bad as that is, well over a decade ago a friend told me a story that has kept me concerned ever since. He is an engineer at a nuclear power plant in the southern US. One day while at work the radioactivity alarms went off at the front gate of the plant. Apparently all power plants here in the US have sensors at the gate to scan for out going radioactive particles... a good idea since they don't want to inadvertently contaminate their communities.

Anyway, the alarms went off and traffic was stopped. It turned out the alarm was triggered by a shipment of I beams entering the plant. Yep, they had been made in China.

Ever since that story I pick up every Chinese made screw with just a little bit of suspicion. All it takes is a small amount of scrap radioactive steel to contaminate tons of the stuff... is anyone scanning this stuff? I doubt it.


Widget

[JeffW]

There was an incident at Los Alamos involving some re-bar originating in Mexico being contaminated with Cobalt-60.

http://www.orau.org/PTP/collection/accidents/juarez.htm

I don't have time to search for a better link, but at the time it was reported that an abandoned X Ray machine was broken open and people played with the glowing stuff inside before the rest of the machine was melted down.

[richluvsound]

Just the thing for the music room.......... When will their bubble burst ? They make shite..... sooner or later the rest of world will wake up and boycott the chinese junk !


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1165224/High-Street-chains-face-10m-toxic-sofa-pay--customers-collapsed-Land-Leather-nothing.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r6-o1lpJHU I think 4313b will enjoy this film .

Rich

[BMWCCA]

Make sure you know where that stuff is coming from! The Wood's cable is clearly marked "China". But wouldn't that be likely to make it oxygen-free, given the state of their environment?

Come to think of it, lemme check the stuff from Lowe's . . . "high performance speaker wire made in USA". :applaud:

Most Neutrik pieces I've owned are made in Lichtenstein.

[Eaulive]

The Wood's cable is clearly marked "China". But wouldn't that be likely to make it oxygen-free, given the state of their environment?

Come to think of it, lemme check the stuff from Lowe's . . . "high performance speaker wire made in USA". :applaud:

Most Neutrik pieces I've owned are made in Lichtenstein.

Ahhhhhhhh, another "cable" thread... let me get my popcorn :bouncy:

I work in SR and installs, so we have high power, long runs and at times low impedance.
I use a special material, what's its name already.... ah yes, copper :p

[Progneta]

Ive always used Belden wire. 16 ga for under 50 ft. then I switch to 12 for anything of 50 ft..... that's because its all I have :bouncy:

[jcrobso]

I have heard if you deep fry the power cord it is twice as good as the ones that are deep frozen and cost a bit more, please try it and get back to me :p

Mark
Then you need let them cool down slowly in an over set to 200 for and hour, then turn off the oven and let them cool over night! In the morning you can just throw them away because they won't be any good!:blah:

There is so much FUD about cables, one of the ones that I love is that you need break in your cables, before they will sound good!:barf:
Mon$tor cables is the KING OF FUD*
* Fear Uncertainty Doubt

[BMWCCA]

My bag of Neutrik dual-bananas arrived today. I ordered them from markertek.com (http://markertek.com). They weren't the cheapest but cheap enough at about $1.70 each (more for red, for some reason), and shipping wasn't inexpensive, but they did show up in just two-days. Next time I'm visiting my daughter at college I'll stop by their place in Saugerties, NY, and see what they're all about.

The Neutrik dual-banana plugs are impressive. I've lived with "cheap" RatShack versions at about $4/each, Chinese junk from Parts Express, and even Peavy stuff from my local guitar shop for not-small change for years. Some of the Chinese stuff even had the indicator tab on both sides of the plug—a big help when working blind behind the amp (yeah, I filed them off). I guess they figured if one was good, two would be better. :banghead:

But the Neutriks are superb. The wire ends are completely enclosed, the contact surfaces are well made, and the standard toothed cable-clamp works well with the "Moonshine" cable. The plated contact elements are even keyed (square) so you can assemble them rotated in 90º increments and they stay put. The fit and material quality is superb for such an inexpensive part. I was so impressed, as I have been with every Neutrik product, that I felt compelled to stage a photo to show just how well thought-out and constructed they are.

The Neutrik part numbers are NYS508-B (for black) and NYS508-R (for red) and I've seen them offered in Europe in an even broader assortment of odd-ball colors. They're available for as little as $1.50 in quantities of ten elsewhere but markertek was a pleasure to deal with even when I called them to tell them they left out several of the toothed cable clamps (notice the black insert in the open red plug in the photo below). I recommend these if you're using dual-bananas on either your amps or your speakers, especially with big cables.

[speakerdave]

PE is selling an AR set of 10 gauge 25' cables with banana tips on both ends, plus an option for another tip that will fit in the stock 4345 terminals for $38 a pair. China. Hope they're not radioactive. This beats buying wire and Monster banana jacks. The metal quality on the AR ends, though, is not as good.

[brutal]

Thanks for the tip, needed a few things so I gave them a shot. One freakin line item back-ordered though... Much better prices than the last (never again) place I used.

Let's see if they can get the XLR order right, the last outfit (OnlineComponents.com) sent me just the plug ends with no backhandle/liner (one piece in this SC model) and customer service has been horid to resolve. I'm gonna call SC back and ask them to step in or send me replacements.

36 [L-4E6S BK] Canare L-4E6S Star-Quad Microphone Cable Black @$0.51/ea = $18.36
6 [AAA3MBZ] Switchcraft AAA3MBZ 3 Pin XLR Male Black cable end @$2.29/ea = $13.74
6 [SW3502ABAU] Switchcraft 3502ABAU Longbody RCA Male Black/Gold @$2.29/ea = $13.74
6 [NYS508-B] Neutrik NYS508-B Dual Banana Plug - Black @$1.70/ea = $10.20
6 [NYS508-R] Neutrik NYS508-R Dual Banana Plug - Red @$1.78/ea = $10.68
6 [DELUXE-SPADE-R] Deluxe Gold Spade Connector -RED @$1.79/ea = $10.74
6 [DELUXE-SPADE-B] Deluxe Gold Spade Connector -BLACK @$1.79/ea = $10.74 (Qty Backordered = 6)
1 [2000-1] Markertek Catalog - Latest Edition @$0.00/ea = $0.00

[BMWCCA]

Thanks for the tip, needed a few things so I gave them a shot. Check to make sure you get one toothed cable-clamp for each Neutrik dual banana.

I just got the missing ones via UPS today after telling them on Friday that there were 11 missing from my order. No muss, no fuss, and of course no charge. But then putting them in from the start would have been my preference. I do understand how keeping up with every small part must be an incredible task, especially if they're buying these from Neutrik in quantities of 100 and dumping them in a bin with a separate bag of the clamps and relying on the order-picker to know they're supposed to go together.

Basically I ended up with four 10' bi-amp speaker cables with quality dual-bananas on both ends for about $23.

[BMWCCA]

The metal quality on the AR ends, though, is not as good.You think? From the PE website reviews of the AR cables (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=109-064):

http://www.parts-express.com/product_ratings/img/stars35.gifHandle Bananas Gently
Saturday, October 31, 2009
Bookburn from Montana

I ve saved and waited months to purchase an Onkyo TX-SR507 to power the stereo speakers I built this summer. This cable was to be the finishing touch to my first speaker building project. It looks great (heavier than most of my outdoor extension cords), has positive reviews, and with crimped on banana plugs seemed to be of a good value. But as I plugged my left speaker in, the gold platted banana plug crumbled into five little pieces. Bummer, I muttered. A bit of tape allowed me at least to enjoy the product of my summer toil and careful money management. But I m really disappointed in the ends on these cables. Do not bend. Handle carefully. Best of luck.

[Wagner]

I have skimmed through this entire thread, hoping to find something relevant to my modest assortment of JBLs.

Where is the Lansing products connection to all this, except that it does appear to be about do it your self speaker wire?

I guess there's a connection there? (no pun intended)

Thomas

[BMWCCA]

I have skimmed through this entire thread, hoping to find something relevant to my modest assortment of JBLs.

Where is the Lansing products connection to all this, except that it does appear to be about do it your self speaker wire?JBL relevance seems to have departed after the original post in the thread. Though when I resurrected it (because of the previous 6Moons reference in the thread) it was because I'm using the 6Moons Whitelightning Moonshine cables on my JBL 4345s, which is in keeping with the thread topic. I agree as it is now the thread might work better in the Miscellaneous Gear (http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=55) forum. :)

[Wagner]

JBL relevance seems to have departed after the original post in the thread. Though when I resurrected it (because of the previous 6Moons reference in the thread) it was because I'm using the 6Moons Whitelightning Moonshine cables on my JBL 4345s, which is in keeping with the thread topic. I agree as it is now the thread might work better in the Miscellaneous Gear (http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=55) forum. :)



Lansing Product General Information (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=2) (8 Viewing)
General discussion on Lansing products (Altec Lansing, Lansing Manufacturing, JBL)

[Wagner]

Dear all,

What kind of speaker cables are you using for your 4345s, or any type of Horn speakers, to tone down the harshness and "In your face" kind of results ?
Is Nordost in your menu ?

Thanks for your reply...:)


..........trying to stay in the (guide) lines:


General Audio Discussion (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=6) (1 Viewing)
Audio technology, theory, measurements, and general information.

[brutal]

It's a crying shame we wasted someone's valuable time discussing CABLES in a thread about CABLES.

[JBLAddict]

PE is selling an AR set of 10 gauge 25' cables with banana tips on both ends, plus an option for another tip that will fit in the stock 4345 terminals for $38 a pair. China. Hope they're not radioactive. This beats buying wire and Monster banana jacks. The metal quality on the AR ends, though, is not as good.

what's wrong with the wire + Monster banana jacks (that I spent I don't want to say how much on at RadioShaqONeil for my L7 bi-amp because I was desperate to have something right then and there and the RS version were garbage)?

[speakerdave]

what's wrong with the wire + Monster banana jacks (that I spent I don't want to say how much on at RadioShaqONeil for my L7 bi-amp because I was desperate to have something right then and there and the RS version were garbage)?


Nothing wrong with the monster wire and banana connectors. They're good. I just always thought they were a little pricier than they needed to be. But it turns out they may be worth the difference.

I was not very clear in that post. I meant it beats the price.

[BMWCCA]

what's wrong with the wire + Monster banana jacks (that I spent I don't want to say how much on at RadioShaqONeil for my L7 bi-amp because I was desperate to have something right then and there and the RS version were garbage?Nothing that I'm aware of. Still on the "cheaper" end of the audiophile pile of cables out there, which I appreciate. I've used Monster dual-banana plugs sourced from Best Buy because they're actually pretty cheap. They don't work that well on normal 16-14-gauge bulk speaker wire because they're designed for the fatter specialty wire and the bulk stuff I normally use gets loose in the bananas far too often and can act as a pretty good wire cutter, too. I've relegated the Monster bananas to the Monster-type wire.

The Neutrik dual bananas work well with smaller wire yet can accommodate larger sizes as well. They just happen to be work perfectly when the cable sheathing is properly trimmed on the 6Moons White Lghtning Moonshine DIY project.

I've never been one to make a big deal about wires and cables, other than I do believe in quality interconnects at least a step above what comes packaged with consumer equipment and have heard that difference. But the Moonshine project produced a good-looking cable that works well and cost less than anything I've used in the recent past, including bulk-off-the-spool-at-Lowe's, plus the Neutrik dual-bananas seem perfectly suited to the Moonshine type of cable. And they sound fine. Better? Who the heck knows, but I do know my car runs better just after I wash and wax it, so...

;)

[hjames]

Hey, you sold me on them!
Grabbed 2 Walmart 40' power cords a few weeks back and the connectors came last week! I just finished making up one pair of the so-called White Lightning Moonshine cables with them (I did tinned leads on one end, dual banana on the other) and if all goes well I'll make up the other pair soon enough. 2 pairs of these will do my biamp 4341s!

Thanks for the great photo - I didn't get what that extra black "track" piece was until I checked your photo and realized it was a strain relief!

Way cool connectors,
hopefully these will give me true 20-50kc response ! ;)



http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=42820&stc=1&d=1258163589
My bag of Neutrik dual-bananas arrived today. I ordered them from markertek.com (http://markertek.com). They weren't the cheapest but cheap enough at about $1.70 each (more for red, for some reason), and shipping wasn't inexpensive, but they did show up in just two-days.

the Neutriks are superb. The wire ends are completely enclosed, the contact surfaces are well made, and the standard toothed cable-clamp works well with the "Moonshine" cable. The plated contact elements are even keyed (square) so you can assemble them rotated in 90º increments and they stay put. The fit and material quality is superb for such an inexpensive part. I was so impressed, as I have been with every Neutrik product, that I felt compelled to stage a photo to show just how well thought-out and constructed they are.

The Neutrik part numbers are NYS508-B (for black) and NYS508-R (for red) and I've seen them offered in Europe in an even broader assortment of odd-ball colors.

[BMWCCA]

I didn't get what that extra black "track" piece was until I checked your photo and realized it was a strain relief!I didn't realize what the black "teeth" were for either, especially since my 16 Neutriks came with only five of the "teeth" tossed in the bag. :blink:

But I knew Neutrik described them as having an "integrated strain relief" so I hunted the web for a photo that showed how it was supposed to fit and then it was quite obvious...and Markertek made good on the missing eleven pieces. :)

Trading kudos, I followed your lead and had some glass tops made for the 4345s today. Bronze tint seemed to be the right choice. The glass shop assured me the plastic-disc "pads" would not harm the wood. One less thing to worry about with these beasts that simply have to be used as furniture in my tiny room!

I managed to get by with my bi-amp wiring with one Wood's patio extension cord. How far apart are your 4341s?? ;)

With the custom CC crossovers now safely inside the 4345 cabinet, I'm using this input plate on the backs and run the dual-bananas on both ends of the Moonshine cables.

http://www.parts-express.com/images/item_standard/260-304_s.jpg

[hjames]

Well, I made banana jack panels on pieces of 3/8 birch board when I first opened the 4341s up - but I didn't think in terms of dual connectors so didn't use any specific dimension for jack placement. But maybe I should get some of those dual pair input plates like you have - or remake the rear panels I already have. I'll need to do something similar on the L200s as well - but - the amps have standard connectors spacing at least!

Yes - I bought 2 of the Walmart 40 footers - so I think 4 20" cables should cover my needs downstairs!

And thanks for the PE tip - I just ordered 5 of the dual terminal cups - 2 for the 4341s, and 3 for the L200s (including the eventual center one I'll set up)


I didn't realize what the black "teeth" were for either, especially since my 16 Neutriks came with only five of the "teeth" tossed in the bag. :blink:

But I knew Neutrik described them as having an "integrated strain relief" so I hunted the web for a photo that showed how it was supposed to fit and then it was quite obvious...and Markertek made good on the missing eleven pieces. :)

Trading kudos, I followed your lead and had some glass tops made for the 4345s today. Bronze tint seemed to be the right choice. The glass shop assured me the plastic-disc "pads" would not harm the wood. One less thing to worry about with these beasts that simply have to be used as furniture in my tiny room!

I managed to get by with my bi-amp wiring with one Wood's patio extension cord. How far apart are your 4341s?? ;)

With the custom CC crossovers now safely inside the 4345 cabinet, I'm using this input plate on the backs and run the dual-bananas on both ends of the Moonshine cables.

http://www.parts-express.com/images/item_standard/260-304_s.jpg

[BMWCCA]

I made banana jack panels on pieces of 3/8 birch board when I first opened the 4341s up - but I didn't think in terms of dual connectors so didn't use any specific dimension for jack placement. But maybe I should get some of those dual pair input plates like you have - or remake the rear panels I already have. I'll need to do something similar on the L200s as well - but - the amps have standard connectors spacing at least!I considered using just PE aluminum jack plates and selecting individual "5-way" binding posts but could never find out if the hole spacing was correct for dual-bananas since all they list for hole spacing is "30mm" which I assumed was 10mm too many! Plus the dual input cups with the binding posts already on them are cheaper than the aluminum plates even if you get the "gold-plated" versions. ;)

http://www.parts-express.com/images/item_standard/091-612_s.jpg http://www.parts-express.com/images/item_standard/260-281_s.jpg

[brutal]

I considered using just PE aluminum jack plates and selecting individual "5-way" binding posts but could never find out if the hole spacing was correct for dual-bananas since all they list for hole spacing is "30mm" which I assumed was 10mm too many! Plus the dual input cups with the binding posts already on them are cheaper than the aluminum plates even if you get the "gold-plated" versions. ;)

http://www.parts-express.com/images/item_standard/091-612_s.jpg http://www.parts-express.com/images/item_standard/260-281_s.jpg

I just ordered some stuff from PE for my B460 rebuild (pics and thread will be forthcoming) and they were out of stock on the 2-hole black plates. Sheesh.