I'm Back! L100T Project

[evans224]

I never really went away, but I've been persuing other interests. I pretty much sold off all my JBL's over the last couple of years-L150A,4311A,Jubals,L220. In fact, I was down to one pair of L1's! I purchased a pair of 4410's in very good shape about 8 months ago from a JBL collector in my area. I saw them advertised and remembered that they are highly regarded here and got them for a good price. I have to say, I really like them and am looking forward to putting them through their paces with a "real" system in the near future. They are currently mains in my HT set up.

Anyway, check out these guys I picked up very cheaply ($85). They look pretty bad, and that's why they were sold. The dreaded WF-she couldn't stand to look at them anymore, and he was crying when he sold them to me. I've refinished/repaired my other JBL's with the help and advice of the knowledgeable folks here, and I will lean on you again for this project. Anyway, I'll post again to show progress.
Evans

[JBL 4645]

They look like they’ve been feed to Great White Shark! :D

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/NYG/78027~Great-White-Shark-Posters.jpg

Looks like major re foaming of the edge surrounds is needed!
A few blemishes on the sides of the enclosure to patch up as well!

[BMWCCA]

They obviously had grilles once; did you at least get them, too?

[wu6fiend]

I just picked up a pair of L80Ts in slightly better shape. The cabinets are sun faded, and stained in places, particularly on top. Components seem to be in ok shape. I will follow your progress in refinishing these, and take careful notes!

(I also have a new set of L100Ts, too, but they are in great shape, and I love them!:D)

[evans224]

Yes, I have the grills, they're in good shape. I love a challenge, and these speakers are that. I have re-foamed the 2214's, and removed the damaged teak veneer from the front (and top of one of them). I re-installed the drivers and am listening to them along side my 4410's. I want to hear if they are worth refinishing to me. Teak veneer will run around $100 to cover what has been removed. By the way, it was posted here that the veneer on the L100T's is stamped wood. Not true, according to the experts. It is teak veneer.

[demon]

hello evans!

just because im curious -are the L1ooT vented or closed box?
since i dont think ive ever seen a closed jbl speaker.

thanks,
mikey

[evans224]

Hi there-
They have a 4" port in the rear.......

[johnaec]

Did you do the refoam yourself? Great job! :applaud:

John

[demon]

thanks, thats just what i expected.
---------
i had the 441oA for some time, and it really was the one speaker responsible to put me on the right track. it showed me the glory of famed jbl-brilliance+power, the iconic three-way.
i gave it to a friend lately, when i needed room (and money) for my big diy. clever people would have just added a sub or two to the 441o, to get a near perfect system, but i dont think im much of a clever guy.

anyway, what i wanted to say is that i think the L1ooT could be just as good as the 441o, from seeing it, and that would be darn good.
hope you enjoy them and bring them back to proper use.

cheers,
mikey

[evans224]

Yes, I refoamed them. Somebody else did the 4410's, including the one glued to the front of the cone (kills me!).
I'm experimenting with placement of the L100T's. I'm going to try them in a bigger, brighter room-hardwood floors etc.-and see what happens. I'm not overly impressed with them where they are-they are just missing that clarity, the punch I'm used to.......

[johnaec]

I'm not overly impressed with them where they are-they are just missing that clarity, the punch I'm used to.......A couple messages in the forum have mentioned in the past that many found the L100T3 to be better sounding than the L100T and attributed it to better cabinet bracing in the T3, if I recall correctly. I wonder if some judicious additional internal bracing might make a difference. Also, are the crossovers slightly different in the T3? I've definitely heard it said the T3 sounds better...

'Looking at picking up a pair of L80T's today - 'just want to give them a listen and compare with my L110's.

John

[evans224]

Think I figured out why these things weren't overly impressive:

Have you guys ever noticed these JBLs are phase (absolute) inverting?
oh yes... as they would not cooperate with my Velodyne ULD15 II. If you are unsure about yours, just hook up a AA 1.5 volt battery to the terminals... cone should move out, not in. Simple solution is to switch your speaker wire leads.
I swapped the wires, and Voila! Bass and clarity! I seem to remember a discussion on why JBL did this. Makes no sense.
Also, I just picked up a Jolida hybrid amp, so I'll be thoroughly auditioning these things.

[westend]

Nice progress on the L100t's. What immediately occured to me was replacing all the veneer. If Teak is too expensive for your budget, maybe Oak or Walnut would be a cost-cutting solution. Good luck on the restoration.

[pos]

Think I figured out why these things weren't overly impressive:

I swapped the wires, and Voila! Bass and clarity! I seem to remember a discussion on why JBL did this. Makes no sense.
Also, I just picked up a Jolida hybrid amp, so I'll be thoroughly auditioning these things.
Do you realize that absolute phase, even if you can hear it in some cases, is not consistent from one song to another, and even from one instrument to another within in the same song? Mixing engineers do not care at all about absolute phase during the recoding.

[evans224]

The L100T may be highly thought of here, but I they are just not my cup of tea. I've moved them to the mains on my HT set-up, and the 4410's are now playing with the Jolida amp. Absolutely huge difference. The L100t's are very up-front and jarring in the mid range, the highs almost painful. Not exactly a natural sound. The 4410's sound very musical, and much easier to listen to. The bass is not prodigious, but to me it's better. I've got a subwoofer I may try with this new arrangement. In the mean time, the L100t project is on hold.......

[jcrobso]

Do you realize that absolute phase, even if you can hear it in some cases, is not consistent from one song to another, and even from one instrument to another within in the same song? Mixing engineers do not care at all about absolute phase during the recoding.

In any recording the phase "is what it is", look at an orchestra all the instruments playing there is now way to control the phase. The phase only becomes a problem on playback. John

[evans224]

Well, I've had the crossovers reworked into the equivalent of L100T3's (thanks Duanage for the great work!). I finally had a chance to sit down and listen, and at first, I liked what I heard. Norah Jone's vocals really sound sweet and pronounced. The highs no longer "whistle", and the low end is much less muddied.

Then I put in Nickleback's latest, sat down and turned it up-Wow, the mods moved everything right in my face. Very forward, extremely sharp in the midrange. Still, the bass leaves a bit to be desired. I'm going to live with them a while, and we'll see.

[bigstereo]

Still, the bass leaves a bit to be desired. I'm going to live with them a while, and we'll see.
I love my t3's. I like them so much that I've bought spare mids and tweeters (thanks again Heather:)) for them just in case. I'm still keeping an eye out for a spare set of 2214H-1.

If the bass would go a tad lower that would be the icing on the cake but overall I've been very happy with these speakers since the first day I wired them up to an amplifier.

My room leaves much to be desired acoustically due to a sloped ceiling on one side. It also has hardwood floors and two windows. They did sound better at my last residence where the room was a perfect rectangle with 8 ft ceiling and wall to wall carpet.

I believe the L100t3 is rated at 400 watts max. So if your amp does'nt have enough headroom, they just are'nt going to sing and I've experienced just that with my own pair.

I've found that the t3's like a bit of power to be at their best. First off, I run all solid state. I've used two other smaller amps but when I run them off my PL400 series 2 (210wpc) the base really tightens up. I recently acquired a McIntosh MC 2300 (conservatively rated @ 300wpc) in order to provide them with even more power and hopefully they be even better although I fear that the size and shape of my room will always be the negative factor. Though this may sound a bit far-fetched, it is my opinion that these speakers would sound their best in a very large room with a high ceiling 10' or higher, running off an amp capable of at least 500 wpc.

[Fred Sanford]

Well, I've had the crossovers reworked into the equivalent of L100T3's (thanks Duanage for the great work!). I finally had a chance to sit down and listen, and at first, I liked what I heard. Norah Jone's vocals really sound sweet and pronounced. The highs no longer "whistle", and the low end is much less muddied.

Then I put in Nickleback's latest, sat down and turned it up-Wow, the mods moved everything right in my face. Very forward, extremely sharp in the midrange. Still, the bass leaves a bit to be desired. I'm going to live with them a while, and we'll see.

The latest Nickelback is very much "in your face" no matter what, one of the most squashed CDs I've ever heard.

Glad you're enjoying the mods...

je

[evans224]

I love my t3's. I like them so much that I've bought spare mids and tweeters (thanks again Heather:)) for them just in case. I'm still keeping an eye out for a spare set of 2214H-1.

If the bass would go a tad lower that would be the icing on the cake but overall I've been very happy with these speakers since the first day I wired them up to an amplifier.

My room leaves much to be desired acoustically due to a sloped ceiling on one side. It also has hardwood floors and two windows. They did sound better at my last residence where the room was a perfect rectangle with 8 ft ceiling and wall to wall carpet.

I believe the L100t3 is rated at 400 watts max. So if your amp does'nt have enough headroom, they just are'nt going to sing and I've experienced just that with my own pair.

I've found that the t3's like a bit of power to be at their best. First off, I run all solid state. I've used two other smaller amps but when I run them off my PL400 series 2 (210wpc) the base really tightens up. I recently acquired a McIntosh MC 2300 (conservatively rated @ 300wpc) in order to provide them with even more power and hopefully they be even better although I fear that the size and shape of my room will always be the negative factor. Though this may sound a bit far-fetched, it is my opinion that these speakers would sound their best in a very large room with a high ceiling 10' or higher, running off an amp capable of at least 500 wpc.

I am using a Jolida tube/SS integrated with 100 wpc. I was just thinking the same thing about headroom. Perhaps I'll go all SS, something along the lines of your 2300.......
My room is not the best either-hardwood floors, leather furniture. In the mean time I've got some 4412's to put together. They're almost ready. o we'll see what happens with them.

[330indy]

Be careful with loads of amp power. I've dropped the coils of the woofers into the back of the magnet structure with tracks from the first Fourplay CD.

[4343]

Did you do any bracing to the L-100T cabinet? I found it was very different with a simple 1X3 tied from the front panel to the back, placed right between the woofer and mid. Adding a side to side brace didn't do as much after that, but it did help. The biggest change was the port tube swap-out, losing the cardboard for a flared PVC version.

If you really want to lower the bass flab a tube that's flared on both ends is the way to go. I even added an interior baffle on the inside flare, which can yield a few points less distortion.

[badman]

If you really want to lower the bass flab a tube that's flared on both ends is the way to go. I even added an interior baffle on the inside flare, which can yield a few points less distortion.

Not worked with the L100T but agreed- most vents are a "worst case" scenario, with straight tubes and no edge termination. There are many tricks to improve the performance of vents, using noncircular shapes, flared profiles, and differing vent lengths in the case of multi-vented cabs, all can help (within reason, you can use multiple lengths and take the average to approximate multiples of the single length, which lowers vent coloration). Open cell foam (very open, as in drainage gutter foam or aquarium filter foam) within the vent can also dampen some of the high Q resonances that can happen in and around vents.

Definitely a high reward to be had in taking some of the easy tricks with vents.

[Chris Brown]

Be careful with loads of amp power. I've dropped the coils of the woofers into the back of the magnet structure with tracks from the first Fourplay CD.

Could you elaborate a bit on exactly what you mean? Are you just talking about typical woofer over-excursion or something worse?

My L100T's and their 2214H woofers seem pretty solid in that regard. I had them powered by two of my Yamaha P2201 amps bridged for ~600-700wpc at one point, cranking some Pendulum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pendulum_(band)), and they did not disappoint. I have taken the 128H woofers in my other speakers beyond their limits before though, and it sounds like someone hitting a paper-plate with a wrist-rocket slingshot as the voice coil impacts the pole piece. Is this similar to what you were referring to?