2404 vs. 2405

[Wonderboy]

Hello, this is my first post on JBL Heritage, I have been reading some of the posts and have found them quite interesting, sounds like you guys know your stuff!

I am considering building some home theater speakers using all JBL components, this is what I planned for the main left and right front channels and have a few questions:

1. I have two models of tweeters, the 2404 (baby cheeks) and the 2405, which tweeter would be considered the 'better' tweeter?

2. I was thinking of using a couple 2012 10" cones for the lower mid-range (no horns), couple of 2482 drivers with 2380a horns for mid mid-range and a couple of 2425 drivers with 2370a horns for upper mid-range and use one of the tweeters listed above for the high range.

It might be a bit of overkill but I have the components here and would like to get some use out of them. Do you think this set up could work?

Thanks,

Kevin.:)

[speakerdave]

. . . . Do you think this set up could work? . . . .

First, I should say, Welcome to the forum, and we wish you good luck with your very ambitious speaker building project.

However . . I wouldn't do it that way. It seems way too complicated.

Have you been reading Drew Daniels?

Has someone designed you a crossover?

What is your woofer and subwoofer?

If you are emulating a system, you should copy it exactly, and it should be a system for which a "cloned" or replacement response shaping filter/frequency divider has already been created.

[demon]

hey kevin
(wonderboy! great nick -why didnt i think of that...)

short question first: how big is your home-cinema?
because i dont really understand why you would use 2 different, but both very powerful, horns for such an important frequency-area. this will be hard to mix seamlessly together.
just because you own them, actually -for me- is a good enough reason.
anyway i would try both horns, one at a time and see what would sound better, and then just use the better one (obviously).
IF you insist on using both horns at the same time, just for the hell of it, and you like unusal experiments...why not try out a DIPOLE horn system?

did you ever think of that?
no?

:applaud:

(no one did) (for proper reasons...) (its crazy!)

you will build the first dipole-compression-driver-horn-system.
i am very enthused.

yours truly,
mikey

[Allanvh5150]

Hi ,
I like the 2482 as a driver and have used it many times over the years. Just for the vintage aspect I would pair them with the 2405 just because you have them. Idealy though you would want to put something like a 2225 under them or if you dont plan on running a sub maybe 2235's. You could make some nice cabs with this setup and they wont be too large. The 10" drivers will get a little lost trying to work with either of these driver/horn combinations. For a medium sized room the 2370/2425 with the 2404 will work well too.:)

[Wonderboy]

:)Thanks for the replies guys, speakerdave, demon and Allanvh5150.

Like I mentioned earlier, it's a bit of an overkill design. The home theater is a medium sized room I guess, it's 25'x15' but might be buying a bigger house in the future with a bigger home theater room. (I might need one!)

I should have mentioned I was planning on using two 15" woofers per side as well for the mid-bass, I have two 2225's and two 2226's. I planned on using one of each per side. I figured I would need a powerfull front end because I have this serious overkill sub system (over complicated as well). I like war movies and wanted to be right on the battlefield so I bought and built three big subs for that room :D. I have a 15" woofer (Adire Audio Brahma 15) behind the tv, Big Bertha (my creation) directly behind the couch, she's 5.5 ft long, three feet high,two feet wide and weighs about three hundred pounds (1.5" MDF), contains three plate amps, two heavey duty 12" woofers along with an 18" woofer, when I tested it alone years ago, I got 118db at 22Hz in the listening position. Oh, also over in the front, facing the corner of the room I have this 4'x4'x2' bass horn I got from Huston Texas it's made by Bassmaxx, their bigger one, I am using an 18" woofer in it, a Aura Sound MR-18.4 I got from L.A. I also have bass shakers in the couch and chair (not that I need them), so when the bombs fall in the war movies, you'd swear they are falling on my house, heh, heh! The sub behind the tv and the bass horn are powered by an older Yorkville AP3400, 1200 watts rms per side and I crank it till it clips (or course I turn it down at that point). I also have a Behringer DSP 8024 (room correction with mike) I might try to use in the system, might help the bass out?

I am not following any design and do not have crossovers made yet. I do have four JBL 3110a's kicking around, I was thinking I could use them along with some first order jobs I would have to make? (I do have two electronic crossovers that I am not useing, a Rane and a Behringer). At the time I bought the two horns I did not realize (duh) that they covered so much of the same frequency, I figured the 2" horn would play lower than the 1". I thought creating a system with a driver for each section of the sound frequency was the best way to go.

For a center channel I have a 2397 horn (Smith horn?) along with a 2445 that needs a diaphram. I was going to put this horn on top of the already exsisting center channel, couple of 8" mid-woofers with 5" mid and 1" dome tweeter(all domestic drivers), so I guess that makes it even more complicated, eh? (I'm Canadian, eh).

Dipole horn? naw, think I'll pass, haha!

Drew Daniels?

[speakerdave]

Seems to me you are doing just fine on your own.

I'm just glad you're a hi fi nut and not a general. :)

Drew Daniels: http://www.audioheritage.org/html/perspectives/drews-clues/audiophile.htm

You and he have very similar ideas, but because of his background in audio his system is a bit more organized and probably sounds somewhat more refined.

[Mr. Widget]

Perhaps you could even attach a compression driver to the drain of a kitchen sink to use as a wave guide... then you could say you even used the kitchen sink. :applaud:

I prefer the less is more approach, but what the hell... you could always reduce later.


Widget

[demon]

Drew Daniels: http://www.audioheritage.org/html/perspectives/drews-clues/audiophile.htm

GREAT article!!!
oh thanks a big bunch for i woudnt have found it on my own, because i didnt knew it existed.
impressing -the system that turned me around is just nearly the same as the one in description. not so many 18"s though, only 2. am i a 5oies guy, reborn into a newer and overly attractive body?
love the high-power approach.
dont try this at home kids..!

wonderboy:
you go your own way, i can see that. just keep us informed!

cheers,
mikey

[Wonderboy]

Hi Guys,

Hmm, never thought about the kitchen sink, think I might have a spare driver here somewhere!:) I remember reading that Drew Daniels article years ago, it must have been trapped in the back of my mind influencing my thought process. lol

I think some trial and error is called for here, as suggested (good one!) and it will most likely turn out that "less is more". I have been a hi fi nut for a long time, don't let the 'wonderboy' fool you, that's just a handle given to me by an evil step daughter years ago ( I deliver Wonder Bread for a living), I'm turning 49 in Dec. but still young at heart. I was planning to use separate boxes for the horns, so if the system sounds better with just one horn, which is most likley the case, I could just throw the other horn on the stack for looks :cool:, being a "hi fi nut" I like the look of raw drivers.

I recently talked to a tech. at JBL Professional (Everet) I asked him about the 4" phenolic diaphrams that come with the 2482, he said they were never meant for playback, but were designed for voice. I figured this would be good for what I was going to use them for. Do you think I would be better off with Aluminum diaphrams?

Thanks,

Kevin.

[Tom Brennan]

why not try out a DIPOLE horn system?


you will build the first dipole-compression-driver-horn-system.
i am very enthused.

yours truly,
mikey


Paul Eizik, a pal of mine In Chicago, has been using a DIY dipolar horn rig for years. Paul uses EV drivers and makes his own tractrix horns from foamcore.http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh92/Irishtom29/more062.jpg
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh92/Irishtom29/more063.jpg

[Allanvh5150]

I can see that a pair of those would go down real well with the Mrs......:)

[demon]

@ tom brennans dipole-horn-friend:
F*CKING H*LL ! ! ! !

:dancin::banana:

this looks SOOOO cool i cant believe it!
how does sound?

please sen all my best and extended greetings to your friend. this is an awsome rig...!
awsome.

yours, truly impressed,
mikey

[Zilch]

Y'all'll thank me for staying out of this. :yes:

[You're welcome..... ;) ]

[Robh3606]

1. I have two models of tweeters, the 2404 (baby cheeks) and the 2405, which tweeter would be considered the 'better' tweeter?


Hello Kevin

Back to your question. The 2405 sounds great crossed over above 8K or so. I would keep the 2404 up there as well. The main difference is the dispersion pattern. The 2405 is like the proverbial flashlight in the vertical axis. You really need have your ears on axis with them. That can be a real PITA depending on how you end up having your speakers stacked.

I think you are going to find out just how hard it is the keep a stack a reasonable height one you go with a 15" woofer, 10" or 12" midrange, and a horn. You can't drop the 15's on the floor so unless you are far away the stack height becomes significant with a driver like the 2405. You can always angle them down but you need to plan for it up front.

Have Fun Rob:)

[Wonderboy]

Thanks for the replies guys!

Mr. Brennan, I must agree with Allanvh5150, I just can't see a woman allowing a pair of those if the front room of a house:), but there ya go Demon, some one beat me to the dipole horns, haha!

Thanks for the input on the tweeters Robh3606, so if I understand you correctly the 2404 has a wider disspersion (excuse my spelling) pattern than the 2405? In other words the 2404 will cover more area off axis than the 2405? Personally I prefer the look of the 2404 over the 2405.

I asked another question on my last post about the difference between the 2482's phenolic diaphragm compared to a aluminum diaphragm? I'm new on this forum (or any forum) maybe I should be changing the title each time to match the question.

I notice Mr. Zilch had a few words in there, I was just reading up on another forum (Audio Karma) on your conversation with doucanoe regarding a three way crossover you developed. I was wondering if it would be possible to see it? Speakerdave had some good ideas about maybe I should be using a 'tried tested and true' (sounds like a Chevy eh?) crossover. I have these 3110A's kicking around and was wondering if maybe there was a way to incorporate them into my crazy design speaker system.:blink:

Thanks!

Kevin.

[Robh3606]

Hello Kevin

Take a look at these:

http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/2404.pdf


http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/2405.pdf


You get almost a symmetrical pattern with the 2404 where the 2405 narrows up quite a bit.

Rob:)

[Wonderboy]

Thanks Rob, much appreciated!:)

Kevin.

[Mr. Widget]

You get almost a symmetrical pattern with the 2404 where the 2405 narrows up quite a bit.
True enough, but if you do sit in the coverage area of the 2405, they sound a little bit better than the 2404.


Widget

[Wonderboy]

Thanks Mr. Widget, that is an important factor to consider, which I will.:)

[johnaec]

I'm just curious why no one has ever directed Wonderboy to the extensive Ring Radiator Comaprison thread we had: http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=6368&highlight=comparison

I can't remember if we covered dispersion patterns much, but we sure did cover just about everything else...

Edit: Now I remember - more of that thread ended up discussing other drivers and stuff, though the first several pages are still highly relevant...

John

[Wonderboy]

Thanks Johnaec, that thread was very informative, you have a good memory, that was posted about three and a half years ago!

Seems like Mr. Widget did his homework on that one. I think his last reply to me pretty much summed up the conclusion to all those tests.

It sounds kind of corny but maybe I will just mount as many of these old JBL drivers as I can fit into the stack of boxes and only connect about three of them (or what's really needed), just to show them off. The people that come visit my house will be impressed by my little show piece:bouncy: not knowing half of them are not operating. hehe! (almost sounds a bit evil:)) Also, if I move to another house, maybe one of the drivers not operating will suit the new room better?

Kevin

P.S. I finely figured out a way to connect that driver to the kitchen sink!!
:applaud:





Kevin.