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Doc Mark
10-27-2008, 06:01 AM
Greetings, All,

Scott has got me thinking about possible advantages in upgrading, or adding, another, newer, Crown amp to our setup. What are the differences, both good and bad, between the K1 and K2 Crown amps? What is a decent price for such an animal? How reliable are they, compared to the old Dc300's, and DC300A's? Thanks, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

BMWCCA
10-27-2008, 07:40 AM
http://crownaudio.com/pdf/legacy/136713.pdf

http://www.stereotimes.com/amp031302.shtml

K2s in good cosmetic condition seem to go for around $70050 on Ebay. Beat up they go for a couple of hundred less. Of course K1s are less. I assume you're talking about using either for a sub amp?

For main amps, not subs, you may want to look at the PS-400 or the DC300A-II. They're potentially a lot newer than the DC300As.

http://crownaudio.com/pdf/legacy/k1073-4.pdf

scott fitlin
10-27-2008, 09:44 AM
The DC-300 is a traditional Class AB design, its a simple straightforward amp, and YES, they do sound goood, IMO.

The K Series was crowns first amp with the NEW BCI Output Topologies. They offer MUCH higher power, at lower heat, hence the not needing a fan, which at the time these were introduced was unheard of for an amp of his power, as well as using LESS electricity from the wall, than a traditional amplifier.

The Power Line Four, is an enhanced DC-300A, the Power Line Series was Crowns attempt at the consumer amplifier market. They have something called " Multi Mode circuitry " which let the amps pre driver stage operate Class A for the first two to five watts, then switch to Class AB for higher power, and finally AB+B at highest power output levels. Made for the consumer markets they have RCA input connectors, so that makes em easy to use, UNLESS your running balanced lines.

There were three amps in the line,

Power Line Two ( Enhanced D-75 )

Power Line Three ( Enhanced D-150A )

Power Line Four ( Enhanced DC-300A )

They were/are nice sounding smps, I used Power line two,s on tweeters, and they just have nicer sounding top end.

I also have a Four, which Im bringing back out to A/B against the DC-300A on my compression drivers.


Now about using the K -VS- A dc 300A on your 2242, what I found with more modern higher power handling drivers on older not so high power amps -vs- newer, higher powered amps, is simply this, sound comes out of the driver with either amp, BUT, on the lower powered amp, I found the newer drivers bass note articulation to be somehwhat muddled, And they sounded OK to a POINT, and IF you played something with a VERY deep notes, or notes, or VERY demanding drum passages, the lower amp just seemed to not have enough to drive the woofer PROPERLY, even at low levels.

Now, I switch to a HIGHER powered, much more modern amplifier, and all of a sudden those muddled bass notes, MM,mmm mmm Mm, sounded like Bow, ba, ba, di da din doo da dow, I could visualize the bassisits fingers going upand down the fret board, and yet, I wasnt playing any louder than I was with the older amp. Kick drum tightened up immensely, with what MY ears tell me IS even better control than the older amplifiers had/have..

NOW, WHEN YOU do step on the gas, IT's NO CONTEST. The OLDER amp is like driving your mothers station wagaon, you are doing 60 on the highway, you step down on the pedal NOTHING appens it's got no more to give other than driving the amp into clip, you feel the station wagons soft suspension becazusae the car isn wallowing form side to side, NOT holding the road going in a PRECISE straight motion, you rock the whell gently back and forth to keep the wagon straight, and you can feel the wagon can't REALLY hold the road.

With the NEW amp, it was like stepping into a BRAND new BMW M6, your doing 80 going down the highway, step on the gas, the car moves forward with AUTHORITY, and next thing your speedometer says 100MPH, yet, this car holds the road in a PRECISE straight line, steering is RAZOR Sharp, and RESPONSIVE, and WITH ULTRA PRECISION, and your not even anywhewre near the limits,either, IT HAS MORE TO GIVE! You dont feel the car vibrating, interior or exterior, you dont feel the M6 pitching and rolling from side to side like a boat, you don't feel that KNOWING feeling to slow down because the car can lose it.

NO, The M6 puts that shit eatin grin on yerface, CAUSE this thing was DESIGNED to be driven at high speed, your totally secure, and totally confident behind the wheel of the M6.

Till the cop car lights come on behind you, BECAUSE it didnt even feel like you wer'e doing 105mPh, and you wer'e barely even out of 3rd, and thought you were still around 80mPh!

:applaud:

BMWCCA
10-27-2008, 11:23 AM
So many automotive analogies in one day! ;)

First let me say I respect Scott's expertise with the high-power stuff. That's why I asked if the intended use for the K-series was as sub amps. I fully intend to have my NYC daughter who loves Coney Island visit the Eldorado Auto-Skooter emporium and report back on the thumping bass, as well as the art-deco bulb-lettering signage. (That is you, isn't it Scott?)

However, the PS-series Crowns (PS-200, PS-400) were actually updated D-series amps with turn-on-delay protection, headphone/monitor output, abilityto accept balanced input adapters, and a more modern chassis design. Many say the circuitry is identical though Crown shows slightly improved power output. Regardless, they are at a minimum the equivalent to the D-series, in my estimate they are an improvement, and I've owned a D-150 since 1974, I also have two D-150A-IIs, a DC300A-II, two PS-200s, and two PS-400s. The PS amps were more expensive than the D-series and intended to replace the D-series, though that price bump actually drove more users to the D-series which "forced" Crown to continue making the DC300A-II longer than anticipated.

The PowerLine series was Crown's attempt, as Scott says, to enter the consumer market. As such they dumbed-down the amps and made them prettier, using the old D75A and the PS-200 and PS-400 as their basis. They included a media-blasted aluminum face along with the black, added additional output-monitor LED to indicate power output, but junked the ability to use balanced inputs, 1/4" input jacks, barrier-strip speaker connections, and three-prong power cords. As far as I know, the circuitry is otherwise the same as the PS-series.

Now to take issue with Scott's automotive analogy: The new M6 is an overweight luxury car with a fine, large engine. A shame they put it in a huge, fat, soft car that relies on electronic nannies just to keep the over-zealous fat-wallet owner on the road as he surpasses his ability to drive. Think of it as the MP3 of the auto world in that it gives you only the control and feedback it thinks you need to have. The electronics are your government-bailout once you get in too deep. The stripped-down '80s M3 is the real performer whose lightweight body without accessories or nannies, and short, high-revving 4-cylinder rewarded the driver by responding to capable input and assuming you knew what you were doing or you'd not have chose such a vehicle. The visceral enjoyment from driving the first M3 (and, to some extent the FIRST M6) is akin to the basic THUMP that Scott loves from his JBLs and Crowns. That new M6 is more like the McIntosh speakers from the '70s known for their "living-room" sound. Bad shocks and all. "No highs, no lows; must be Bose", and now "high-speed with no skill; must be a computer-controlled German car!" Technology has won; we don't even need a driver anymore.

I'd still take a K2 in a heart-beat. The NEW M6 I'd trade for a barn-full of fun cars.

SMKSoundPro
10-27-2008, 12:06 PM
Dear Doc,

I have heard the K2 and think it is very worthy for your purpose. There a few on the bay right now with resonable buy it now prices.

I just fail to see how you can go wrong with a JBL + Crown connection.
See Link: http://cgi.ebay.com/CROWN-K2-POWER-AMP-2500-WATTS-2-OHMS-SUPER-SEALED-AMP_W0QQitemZ380075281644QQihZ025QQcategoryZ23787Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
(This guy is also throwing in a dbx 266 limiter to put on your L300's, even!!!)

The Crown amp that I also like that was mysteriously left out of the conversation, is the PSA-2.

Or...

the M600 or Delta Omega

or...

Email Bart for a line on some Yamaha PC2002M with the meters on the front. Those would also be outstanding for $175 apiece!!!!!

I am glad to hear how much you appreciate the L300's! I do too!


Scotty K.

ps. Enough with the car analogies! If it can't haul a bigass sound rig to the gig, who gives a shit!

BMWCCA
10-27-2008, 12:36 PM
There a few on the bay right now with resonable buy it now prices.

See Link: http://cgi.ebay.com/CROWN-K2-POWER-AMP-2500-WATTS-2-OHMS-SUPER-SEALED-AMP_W0QQitemZ380075281644QQihZ025QQcategoryZ23787Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
(This guy is also throwing in a dbx 266 limiter to put on your L300's, even!!!That one looks a little beat for the price. I'm getting the impression that Doc would like to be able to proudly show-off his gear once people get sucked in by how good it sounds! :applaud:

scott fitlin
10-27-2008, 12:47 PM
So many automotive analogies in one day! ;)

First let me say I respect Scott's expertise with the high-power stuff. That's why I asked if the intended use for the K-series was as sub amps. I fully intend to have my NYC daughter who loves Coney Island visit the Eldorado Auto-Skooter emporium and report back on the thumping bass, as well as the art-deco bulb-lettering signage. (That is you, isn't it Scott?)

However, the PS-series Crowns (PS-200, PS-400) were actually updated D-series amps with turn-on-delay protection, headphone/monitor output, abilityto accept balanced input adapters, and a more modern chassis design. Many say the circuitry is identical though Crown shows slightly improved power output. Regardless, they are at a minimum the equivalent to the D-series, in my estimate they are an improvement, and I've owned a D-150 since 1974, I also have two D-150A-IIs, a DC300A-II, two PS-200s, and two PS-400s. The PS amps were more expensive than the D-series and intended to replace the D-series, though that price bump actually drove more users to the D-series which "forced" Crown to continue making the DC300A-II longer than anticipated.

The PowerLine series was Crown's attempt, as Scott says, to enter the consumer market. As such they dumbed-down the amps and made them prettier, using the old D75A and the PS-200 and PS-400 as their basis. They included a media-blasted aluminum face along with the black, added additional output-monitor LED to indicate power output, but junked the ability to use balanced inputs, 1/4" input jacks, barrier-strip speaker connections, and three-prong power cords. As far as I know, the circuitry is otherwise the same as the PS-series.

Now to take issue with Scott's automotive analogy: The new M6 is an overweight luxury car with a fine, large engine. A shame they put it in a huge, fat, soft car that relies on electronic nannies just to keep the over-zealous fat-wallet owner on the road as he surpasses his ability to drive. Think of it as the MP3 of the auto world in that it gives you only the control and feedback it thinks you need to have. The electronics are your government-bailout once you get in too deep. The stripped-down '80s M3 is the real performer whose lightweight body without accessories or nannies, and short, high-revving 4-cylinder rewarded the driver by responding to capable input and assuming you knew what you were doing or you'd not have chose such a vehicle. The visceral enjoyment from driving the first M3 (and, to some extent the FIRST M6) is akin to the basic THUMP that Scott loves from his JBLs and Crowns. That new M6 is more like the McIntosh speakers from the '70s known for their "living-room" sound. Bad shocks and all. "No highs, no lows; must be Bose", and now "high-speed with no skill; must be a computer-controlled German car!" Technology has won; we don't even need a driver anymore.

I'd still take a K2 in a heart-beat. The NEW M6 I'd trade for a barn-full of fun cars.The ART DECO sign, Made by Artkraft Strauss IS INDEED me.

I did leave out the PSA-2, that is a great amp, also happenes to be ONE of the OLDER amps that got outperformed by some of this newer technology, AND I LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE PSA-2,s, I DO, but, :dont-know

The NEW M6 may not be as BALLS TO THE WALL, lightweight, and stripped down as the original M3 from the 80,s, but, drive ikt, against a REALLY soft family van type vehicle, and the analogy works. Hey, even todays "Vette" has the " Electronic Nannies" and ISN'T a `69 Vette with a 427, but, some of todays things DO work.

Now, I mean the things I say, I MEAN SINCERELY, I always do, and I found that ONCE I took the time to get the best I can from some of this NEWER technology, WHOA!

And ya know what else? People are right, TODAYS Crowns are NOT yesterdays DC-300A,s, and stuff, but, THEY SOUND LIKE CROWNS, THEY KICK like ONLY A CROWN DOES that certain crown sound I call it, and when you take the time to get what u can from, STAND BACK KIDS! HOLY F__KIN S__T!! I will tell u vintage Crown has a certain sound to it, and in other ways NEW Crown SURPASSES old Crown too.

IT's a barn of fun cars, as U would say!

:applaud:

robertbartsch
10-27-2008, 01:42 PM
...I'm not a expert on pro amps but have owned lots of big consumer amps over 40+ years.

The new Crown XLS amps are inexpensive, are bullet proof and kick butt. For my HT application, I disconnected the internal fans which are totally unnecessary in a home application. ...runs ice cold to the touch.

While the older vintage Crown amps are nice, they are old technology.

For the same money as a old DC300 you can buy a new XLS and have a transferrable 3 year warranty.

BMWCCA
10-27-2008, 02:12 PM
I will tell u vintage Crown has a certain sound to it, and in other ways NEW Crown SURPASSES old Crown too.But I can't afford to have my bubble burst!

Never owned a PSA-2 but I seem to see an inordinate number of them for sale as-is, needing work. Workhorses just ridden too hard for too long and put-up wet? I guess not many of them led pampered lives in living room cabinets.


For the same money as a old DC300 you can buy a new XLS and have a transferrable 3 year warranty.
The smallest XLS, the 202, generally sells for around $300 street-price and puts out 200wpc into 8ohms @ 0.5% THD. Not a bad buy for a brand-new amp. Add another hundred bucks and get one with 100 more watts. But then the last PS-400 I bought only cost me $100 and gets me 190wpc into 8 ohms @ 0.1% THD. Hmmm. I just wonder what the XLS series power output would be quoted if they used the same specs as the PS-series?

BTW, I should soon be receiving a Soundcraftsmen Pro-Power Four. Old MOSFET technology, I'm sure. But rated at 205wpc @<0.05%THD (Hirsch-Houke tested at 236wpc and at 200wpc figured THD @ 0.013%).

scott fitlin
10-27-2008, 02:35 PM
...I'm not a expert on pro amps but have owned lots of big consumer amps over 40+ years.

The new Crown XLS amps are inexpensive, are bullet proof and kick butt. For my HT application, I disconnected the internal fans which are totally unnecessary in a home application. ...runs ice cold to the touch.

While the older vintage Crown amps are nice, they are old technology.

For the same money as a old DC300 you can buy a new XLS and have a transferrable 3 year warranty.I know once people take the time to really tweak some of this newer stuff, IT IS SOMETHING TO BEHOLD!

BUT, lots of this newer technoloy ISN'T "Plug & Play" as is was with a Crown DC-300A and and IC150A Preamp. You HAVE to work at it, to get "IT"! But WHEN you do.........

Now, vintage Crown, I used a DC-300A on my 2in compression drivers this summer, a D-150A on my 2404 Bi radials, and a D-150A r two Crown Power Line Two,s on my sixteen 2402 Bullets, OH it sounded SO nice.

I ended up using three PSA-2,s on my twelve TAD 1603,s and again it sounded soooo nice, but I did want MORE power!

So, I decided HEY I'll use SIX PSA-2,s, bridge mono, one amp per pair of TAD,s! GREAT IDEA, right? So, Inorder to start testing what some PSA,s in bridge do on 2 pairs of TAD,s But I didn't have enough amps on hand, and all I had on hand as a spare amp in case of whatever was a crown CE-4000.The sound guys used to call the 4000, " The POOR Man's K " rated for 1200wpc@4ohms stereo.

Using it allowed me to bridge 2 PSA,s and the center pairs of TAD on the CE 4000 and TWO front pairs of TAD on the bridged PSA-2,s.

Well, I'm listening hard, and the front pairs of TAD on the bridged PSA-2,s have a warm sound, not the greatest detail, as I had expected.

The KICK IN THE ASS, is HOW FUCKING good the center 2 pairs of TAD sound on the CE 4000, low mid detail like percussions are stellar, the low end, theres something I hear, just sounds right, and actually reminds me of years ago, when Altec was our 15 and the DC-300A ruled them, something is REALLY right over in this section of the room.

I am scratching my head, can't be. So, to back of the rack, center pairs of TAD go onto the 2 bridged PSA-2,s and front pairs of TAD go on the CE-4000.

And EVERYTHING I was scratching my head about with the two center pairs of TAD was now coming from the TWO front pairs of TAD!. GO FIGURE!

Th PSA-2 sounds WARMER, NO DOUBT! But, the detail, resolution, CLEANLINESS, and low end are just better using the newer amps, to my ears. Although it isnt as warm as the PSA-2, but that warmth, its DISTORTION! I have been saying HOW GOOD MY TADS sound, BUT, I never heard them sound like this!

Does this mean I'm looking for used CE 4000,s? NO! It means Im looking at two more I Tech 4000,s because i already have one, or three new Macro Tech 5000i, also 2000wpc@4ohms to do this job!

The TAD 1603,s sounded FUCKING PHENOMENAL! But, the old Scott, he still lives in my head, rent free, says NO WAY DUDE, YOU GOTTA HAVE PSA-2,s in this room, you like this new stuff for subs, thats cool, but we gotta be vintage the rest of the way up. I TOLD HIM TO STFU!

OK, so we/you/I don't NEED 2000wpc@4ohms, but these new amps are PROGRAMMABLE! The hAve clip limiting, avg power limiting, and Peak Voltge Limiting, and I ran my I Tech 4000 on J Horn subs programmed, it WAS NOT whatever in and out, I HAD THE FEATURES set and in use. I used the Balanced Input Modules on the PSA-2,s, so this stuff is not new to me.

Now, I am NOT telling any home user to do these things, what Im saying is even on my 15,s the new amp kicked the old amps ass. And In Some Ways I Hate To Admit This, BUT, THIS IS THE WAY IT IS!

For high quality home use, The K1, and K2 is a GOOD amp, has a nice front end too, that makes it sound VERY nice.

This is THAT fence I'm on that I was talking about in another thread, also about 2242,s and all our JBL stuff.

:bouncy:

scott fitlin
10-27-2008, 02:39 PM
Oh, and Ive been in there over the course of a few weeks to re-listen, and see when the PSA-2,s decide to wake up and outdo the CE 4000.

Every time, I prefer the way the TADs sound on the newer amp!

EVERY TIME!

scott fitlin
10-27-2008, 04:02 PM
But I can't afford to have my bubble burst!

Never owned a PSA-2 but I seem to see an inordinate number of them for sale as-is, needing work. Workhorses just ridden too hard for too long and put-up wet? I guess not many of them led pampered lives in living room cabinets.


And I'LL give you MY MOST HONEST advice about all those ol, BEAT up, BLOWN out, PSA-2,s available of fleabay.

LEAVE THEM THERE, FOR SOME FOOL TO BUY!

Repairing them gets expensive, the original parts, some of them, like the output transistors, are NLA, sure they have substitutes, but......

And for less headache, you can get something new that WORKS, and WORKS well. And has WARRANTY, and has ORIGINAL MANUFACTURER parts available. FOR my MONEY, that last one CARRIES A LOT OF WEIGHT!

As I said, At Times I Hate To Admit It, but, TODAY IS A NEW DAY!

OTOH, between the re-learning in this new age of invention, and the music and the results I got from my new gear this last summer, OH WELL, I'm having too much fun to go back to where we once were.

Besides, dont'cha HATE when you get something from fleaBay, and it's glitchy, and you gotta squiggle the pot to get sound from that channel, and hit it upside it's head to get it outta standby, etc?

PSA-2, they were the STUFF back in the3 day, But I'm no longer living in that day, I'm here in 2008 going into 2009!

Yesterday, my neighbors are downstairs startin a little BBQ, I'm up here, windows open it was 68 degrees, downloading tracks, about 200 of em I did, and crankin NEW tunes thru my computer speakers. Doorbell rings, I turn music down, and its them, Hey, thats cool music, what is that stuff? Scott you hungry? C'mon down. So, I come back upstairs, get my Apple and speakers, take it all downstairs, plug into an outlet, and just let tunes play out of my Serato/Beatport libraries, everyones is having fun, Harrys wife is dancin around, she says to me, I don't understand something, my kids and grandchildren listen to this stuff, and I HATE IT, and yours I LOVE!

Her daughter says, Ma, this ISN'T the same thing they play on the radio!

I told her daughter Ill make her some CD,s, Harry said, WAIT A MINUTE, forget about Jeannie, Im feeding you, MAKE ME SOME CD,s!

THATS WHERE I AM AT, TODAY! AND IT FEELS GREAT!

And you know, when people near my parents age ask for MY music, well, YOU KNOW SOMETHING MUST BE GOOD ABOUT IT!

So, I do what I have to, to get what I know I can, from todays music medias!

:D:D:D

BMWCCA
10-27-2008, 05:01 PM
And you know, when people near my parents age ask for MY music, well, YOU KNOW SOMETHING MUST BE GOOD ABOUT IT!
:D:D:D
One out of three of my daughters loves my music. But then I hated my parent's music. :hmm:

Maybe the music was just better in the '70s?

Thanks for the advice, Scott. I'm sure you're right and that's why I've stayed away from the old big Crowns. Of course with the JBLs I'm running, I've got more than enough power. I think we'll find out what an L7 sounds like bi-amped with two Crown PS-400s this weekend. :thmbsup:

scott fitlin
10-27-2008, 06:23 PM
You know when I find certain things that I think work OH SO WELL, I say so.

As far AS RUNNING L300,S AND L7,S and OTHER vintage JBL designs, if you have GOOD vintage amps, SURE, use em.

And MORE than LIKELY, Ill continue using some of MY vintage crowns on my 2in drivers and tweeters, cause I like that sound. But my newer, current hungry woofers needed more than what my older amps could deliver.

But, this combination of things IS OUTTASIGHT!

I'll say something about music in the late 60,s, 70,s 80,s 90,s, turn of the century, ( hows that to make us start feeling old? TOTC! ) and today.

All eras and genres of music have had their ups and downs, Most of it, if not all of it, including the "Psychadelic rock " of the late 60,s started at the underground level. It was all serious music, serious creativity, serious tunes crankin hard! They all have had their RISE to MAINSTREAM dominance, THIER PEAK, and then their over commercialization, watering down, and petering out!

There are versions of YOUR favorite tunes, versions YOU never heard, the FULL UNCUT, or UNEDITED, to COMPLETELY DIFFERENT VERSIONS fromas that tune what YOU know sitting in vaults and archives. Some A & R Record Label Exec used to make the final decision on what got pressed, what didn't , and they would base their decisions on " I NEED this to be more Top 40 radio Accesible ", or " No, THIS IS REALLY INTENSE, BUT THE AVERAGE PUBLIC Isnt GOING TO BUY THIS ", to " This may be a Manhattan Nightclub, But WE have to HAVE MIDDLE AMERICA Sales AS WELL ", to just plain ol, " NO, THIS ISN'T GOING to WORK, COMPLETE CHANGEOVERS, MAKEOVERS, And REDO "!

This new music, well, we are right at the beginning,almost, it,s been going on about 2 to 3 years now, but, in the very beginning the files, you know downloads, they sounded like trash! But, NOW, they are getting GOOOOOD!

Not only that, the musics artists and producers are getting their VERSIONS in the ONLINE download stores, remember, The iTunes Store IS NOT where I get my music. What I'm loving is the availability of a music that ISN'T WATERED down because so and so at such and such label didn't hear what he REALLY had!

Then, some of this stuff is just plain ol fun, FULL TILT BOOGIE, Toe Tappin, Ass shakin MUSIC!

But for sure, all eras and genres had the same START, RISE, PEAK, AND FALL!

I love 60,s music, I love 70,s music, I love 80,s music, I love 90,s music, BUT, I don't always care to listen to the same things I alwys listened to in the past all the time, as I have been there and done that, and no atter what, sometimes it just gets OLD, and the new stuff is LIGHTING MY FIRE!

Now, as much as i have my deep, dark, sinnister, throbbing underground tracks, I also have BRAND NEW PRETTY melody with BEAUTIFUL VOCALS and LOVELY INSTRUMENTATION songs too!

Remember that flip up seat in the old station wagons, the ones facing the opposite direction the car was going? The kids love to sit in that seat waving at the cars behind em! NOT ME! Hated that seat. I had no interest in where I'd been, we had all that in a camera, thats what Kodak was for! But I wanted to see where I was going, and all the stuff I'd never seen before!

THAT'S ME!

:applaud:

toddalin
10-28-2008, 10:12 AM
And I'LL give you MY MOST HONEST advice about all those ol, BEAT up, BLOWN out, PSA-2,s available of fleabay.

LEAVE THEM THERE, FOR SOME FOOL TO BUY!


:D:D:D


Maybe I got lucky but I bought my PSA-2XH (special "eXtended Headroom" Showco version) with the balanced input card for $225 from C/L (with a ~75 mile drive each way). It needed a good cleaning and after removing the ground strap (as per the instructions), it's ground loop hum totally disappeared. It has worked fine since I brought it home to power my W15GTI (in bridged mode).

http://www.largescaleonline.com/eimages/lsolpics/Team_Member_Pics/toddalin/Crown_Face.jpg

http://www.largescaleonline.com/eimages/lsolpics/Team_Member_Pics/toddalin/Crown_Back.jpg

scott fitlin
10-28-2008, 12:12 PM
BUT when did u buy that amp?

The ones that have been showing up lately, Ugh.

IMHO, two years ago, even a year ago,

Now, sometimes you get lucky, and IMHO, you have a far greater chance of getting lucky, buying an amp the seller says WORKS, as OPPOSED the the ones that ARE BLOWN!

Over the last six or seven months, Ive been seeing alot of BLOWN PSA-2,s up on the bay.

I'm sorry, but, I just can't really, wholeheartedly recommend these blown amps.

Especially the ones that looked REALLY hacked, cosmetically.

You buy an amp like this that winds up needed an entire channels worth of output devices, maybe a few ither things, the repairs ARE expenisive.

OTOH, I knew a guy that wanted to sell HIS PSA-2,s and OFFERED them to me 1st. These WORKED, becauae I had, and have been to hear his system.

IF I wanted PSA-2,s THESE I would buy.

But, I am not recommending some of the blown out, beat up stuff i see on the bay these days!

If you feel differently, thats fine, bu if you go back and re-read my post I speciaifically say the BEAT up, BLOWN out aps.

I've gotten lucky on ebay, and Ive gotten burnt too!

No matter what anyone says, the bay, is a crap shoot.

That is my opinion!

HOWEVER, Im glad that HX is still kickin it hard for ya. :bouncy: They were great sounding AMPS! And you have a good one.

toddalin
10-28-2008, 12:26 PM
BUT when did u buy that amp?

The ones that have been showing up lately, Ugh.

IMHO, two years ago, even a year ago,

Now, sometimes you get lucky, and IMHO, you have a far greater chance of getting lucky, buying an amp the seller says WORKS, as OPPOSED the the ones that ARE BLOWN!

Over the last six or seven months, Ive been seeing alot of BLOWN PSA-2,s up on the bay.

I'm sorry, but, I just can't really, wholeheartedly recommend these blown amps.

Especially the ones that looked REALLY hacked, cosmetically.

You buy an amp like this that winds up needed an entire channels worth of output devices, maybe a few ither things, the repairs ARE expenisive.

OTOH, I knew a guy that wanted to sell HIS PSA-2,s and OFFERED them to me 1st. These WORKED, becauae I had, and have been to hear his system.

IF I wanted PSA-2,s THESE I would buy.

But, I am not recommending some of the blown out, beat up stuff i see on the bay these days!

If you feel differently, thats fine, bu if you go back and re-read my post I speciaifically say the BEAT up, BLOWN out aps.

I've gotten lucky on ebay, and Ive gotten burnt too!

No matter what anyone says, the bay, is a crap shoot.

That is my opinion!

HOWEVER, Im glad that HX is still kickin it hard for ya. :bouncy: They were great sounding AMPS! And you have a good one.

Yes, they are nice.

I got mine ~2 yrs ago from Craig's List and yes, I listened to it first (traveled ~150 miles RT).

It's nice and quiet (S/N) and I can't hear the fan in the cabinet. I hate "hissy" electronics so passed on all of the Crown "PA" amps. (S/N listed at >100 just doesn't cut it in a quiet home environment).

Of couse I would have preferred the Crown Reference Series amp, but last one of those I saw was $1,250 on C/L.

scott fitlin
10-28-2008, 12:29 PM
Hey Todd, lets wear a different hat now.

If you were selling a system, an enttire complete custom rig, a club system. Your client remembers sound from back in the day! He has no amps of his own, he just says I wish we could get and use such and such amp from the days when I was going out!

Lets say this system, is a $300,000 nightclub system, can you really sell used gear, of a vintage like this, going into a modern HIGH SPL, demanding HARD USE, HIGH RELIABILITY situation?

See, I couldnt do this!

scott fitlin
10-28-2008, 12:36 PM
Yes, they are nice.

I got mine ~2 yrs ago from Craig's List and yes, I listened to it first (traveled ~150 miles RT).

It's nice and quiet (S/N) and I can't hear the fan in the cabinet. I hate "hissy" electronics so passed on all of the Crown "PA" amps. (S/N listed at >100 just doesn't cut it in a quiet home environment).

Of couse I would have preferred the Crown Reference Series amp, but last one of those I saw was $1,250 on C/L.Ahh, 2 years ago!

And I did say THE ONES I SEE LATELY, the last six or 7 months.........

I have PSA-2,s, all I need IF I want to use them.I think I have ten!

But ya know what?

And I swear this is the truth, something about todays music, and Im just getting better reults using newer gear.

I had a long talk with a serious Crown Auth technician about these amps. And he says, its 225 watts per channel @ 8 ohms, BUT its a KICK ASS sounding 225 watts.

And he told me I would reach the day, where no matter how good that 225 watts sounded, I was going to need more than 225 watts.

I reached that day.

But there arew amps upon the bay, I'd never recommend.

And then, there are the ones I would.

toddalin
10-28-2008, 12:46 PM
Ahh, 2 years ago!

And I did say THE ONES I SEE LATELY, the last six or 7 months.........

I have PSA-2,s, all I need IF I want to use them.I think I have ten!

But ya know what?

And I swear this is the truth, something about todays music, and Im just getting better reults using newer gear.

I had a long talk with a serious Crown Auth technician about these amps. And he says, its 225 watts per channel @ 8 ohms, BUT its a KICK ASS sounding 225 watts.

And he told me I would reach the day, where no matter how good that 225 watts sounded, I was going to need more than 225 watts.

I reached that day.

But there arew amps upon the bay, I'd never recommend.

And then, there are the ones I would.

Crown is a little more optimistic. The Extended Headroom series for Showco should/would have more reserves (due to beefed-up power supply). I like the 115 dB S/N ratio at rated power, though its not that big of an issue for subwoofer duties.

I typically run it at 12 ohms, so it's making about 700 watts bridged in mono. This is the rated RMS power for the W15GTI (5,000 watts peak) so I think its a "good fit." ;)

http://www.crownaudio.com/pdf/legacy/k1071-8.pdf

scott fitlin
10-28-2008, 01:03 PM
I should have stated more clesrly, 225wpc@8ohms.

And yes, with the power supply mods, the amp does put out a bit more, and I was originally using them for sub duty too.

But, for me, as sub amps, that 700 watts still ISNT ENOUGH!

And If I were selling a Premium install, THERE IS NO WAY I WOULD SPEC USED GEAR OFF EBAY, abosultely NO WAY! Price out a Funktion 1 dance club system, they get pricey.

Then, there is JUST my personal opinion, that IN MY system, on MY speakers, I have heard amps, that I just think are outperfroming these amps, and I do have ten of them!

Even in single channel, mono block operation.

And, IF I see an amp on ebay, the seller says IS BLOWN, and cosmetically looks like hell, I WON'T RECOMMEND IT TO ANYONE!

And, theres just the fact that I actually like what Im hearing out of these newer Crowns, I LIKE THEM, what else can say?

:bouncy:

But then, thats just me.

toddalin
10-28-2008, 01:10 PM
I should have stated more clesrly, 225wpc@8ohms.



Crown puts the regular PSA-2 at 275 wpc@8 ohms. You trying to short me by 0.9 dB of headroom? ;)

Agreed, I would never spec used equipment for a new installation. Too much at stake and no recourse.

SMKSoundPro
10-28-2008, 01:16 PM
I have said it before and I will say it again:

I cut my eye-teeth on Crown DC-300s, D-150's and D-75's. Those were the amps of the first pro sound company I worked while in high school. I have in my arsenal quite a few of Crown's different amps and can only add that I like them. They are purpose built tools for a rough and tumble rock and roll concert sound reinforcement rig.

Now that I have the choice to choose: I choose to use Crowns for all of my sound systems and still am looking for a Macro 3600 for subs.

I even have a D-60 amp to use for the little things in life. I just have this feeling that my macro tech's are the way to go for what I do. Our town has turned into a QSC town. All of the production companies are running QSC's now. Fine. If it works for them, great!

BUT, I was told by my sponsor to "go with what you know," and I have. I have a pair of CE2000's I bought brand new, used at the nightclub for a few months, fan circuit failed in one of them, sent back to Crown, repaired, returned and still sitting in their respective packing boxes. Never played, never looked at again. Would I pull them out and try them? Probably not. I really should sell them, but who would want them? They were nothing to write home about, then. What, you think they got better sitting in the box?

I guess my point is...

That I have always loved the sound of a vintage Crown amp and agree they have a definite charactoristic that is their signature sound. I like it and have not looked at the other amps to see what they are doing.

Also, I got a Cerwin Vega A-1800i amp the other day as a freebie. Very old school mid 70's with meters on the front. 4 rack spaces high with 5 fuse holders across the front for the rails. After a few minutes cleaning it up and fixing some crappy soldering repairs, it fired right up, and I gotta tell you, wasn't too bad sounding. It just goes into the pile of oddbal goofy stuff in my shop, though. More of an oddity than a working piece of gear.

I have rambled. Sorry.
I'll do a fourth step about later.

Hope you are all well!

Scotty K.

toddalin
10-28-2008, 01:32 PM
I
Also, I got a Cerwin Vega A-1800i amp the other day as a freebie. Very old school mid 70's with meters on the front. 4 rack spaces high with 5 fuse holders across the front for the rails. After a few minutes cleaning it up and fixing some crappy soldering repairs, it fired right up, and I gotta tell you, wasn't too bad sounding. It just goes into the pile of oddbal goofy stuff in my shop, though. More of an oddity than a working piece of gear.

I have rambled. Sorry.
I'll do a fourth step about later.

Hope you are all well!

Scotty K.

I traded my Honda 450 to a company rep for one of these when I was doing PAs (~'73-'74). ;) One of the meters would stick and one channel had excessive distortion (on the analyzer), not that you could so much hear it for sub duties. :o:

scott fitlin
10-28-2008, 01:47 PM
Crown puts the regular PSA-2 at 275 wpc@8 ohms. You trying to short me by 0.9 dB of headroom? ;)

Agreed, I would never spec used equipment for a new installation. Too much at stake and no recourse.OK, THIS I CAN ACCEPT.

:D

scott fitlin
10-28-2008, 01:51 PM
Scotty, we all cut our teeth on D-75,s D-150a,s, DC-300A,s.

Our original crown line up was 2 D-150A,s, 4 DC-300A,s, and 1 M-600.

PM if you want to talk about a 3600VZ, I have three.

Im leaving for Austin, If you dont get me within a half hour, Ill be back on line later tonight from Austin.

:)

BMWCCA
10-28-2008, 02:07 PM
Scotty, we all cut our teeth on D-75,s D-150a,s, DC-300A,s.

Our original crown line up was 2 D-150A,s, 4 DC-300A,s, and 1 M-600Though not "in the business", I cut my teeth on a D150 (non-A-no-faceplate), which I still have in daily use ever since 1974. If I keep it long enough we'll eventually become essentially the same age! When it was brand-new, I was just 21. I'm not real sure it isn't in better shape than I am.

scott fitlin
10-28-2008, 09:26 PM
Though not "in the business", I cut my teeth on a D150 (non-A-no-faceplate), which I still have in daily use ever since 1974. If I keep it long enough we'll eventually become essentially the same age! When it was brand-new, I was just 21. I'm not real sure it isn't in better shape than I am.When we got our FIRST Crowns, I was 14. 1976.

What I distinctly remember about thinking, was this DC-300A, this was that same amp reveiwed in either High Fidelity or Stereo reveiw a year earlier, and I looked at it quizically, as Crown was not a brand I had ever heard of. In 1974 and 75, the two names everyone used to say was LUXMAN, and McIntosh!

McIntosh is what they opened with at Eldorado, so this one I knew, and MACS were pretty, what was this industrial looking thing called Crown?

Boy, I found out, did I ever!

Chas
10-29-2008, 02:18 PM
Scotty, do you have any experience with the Macro Tech series? I might have an opportunity to get a couple of 2400's.:)

scott fitlin
10-29-2008, 03:30 PM
Scotty, do you have any experience with the Macro Tech series? I might have an opportunity to get a couple of 2400's.:)I have alot of experience with macro techs. I have Three 2400,s and Three 3600,s.

I had the 5000,s at one time too.

They are good amps, they kick, they are powerful.

The problem with them, is THEY need lots of electric. Now, for me, that isnt so problematic, for you it might be.

Example, the 2400 NEEDS its own 20amp breaker, all your other gear can be on others, or another shared 20amp, but the 2400 REALLY needs its own 20 amp circuit. EACH 2400 NEEDS its own 20 amp outlet on its OWN 20 amp breaker.

What do you want to use it for? And Ill advise further.

SMKSoundPro
10-29-2008, 09:37 PM
I agree with Scotty J. I have 8 2400's, 6 1200's, and 4 600's.

They love a good solid AC power connection. When the line voltage is soft, the amp will go protect itself for a couple of seconds. Then, come back on right on the beat! The dancers look at you and go "CooL!" It happened to Lisa and I once.

I am considering driver my 8 2241 18's on one 3600 and use my 2-2400's in the smaller dance floor that really needs some help! The big ballroom is karaoke and drag show. Pretty lazy duty. The little dancefloor is our money maker.

ScottyK.

scott fitlin
10-29-2008, 10:17 PM
Scotty, does your system have its own dedicated Main, and breaker panel, WITH NO SHARED NEUTRALS? Each 20 amp and 30 amp receptacle on its OWN breaker?

Cause, THIS makes a difference.

Chas
10-30-2008, 05:39 AM
What do you want to use it for?

Well it's just for domestic woofer (2245H) and subwoofer (SUB 1500) duty, actually. The price is pretty good and they are in good shape. There are two available. I would feed them from two dedicated 15 amp spurs.

I doubt they will ever work very hard in my application, especially on the 2245H's - I only run them 40-290 Hz. And, I can't tolerate high SPL's much anymore. Thanks for your input.:)

scott fitlin
10-30-2008, 05:55 AM
Actually, No you won't feed em off 15 amp receptacles!

The 2400 has a 20 amp plug.

For the Sub 1500 its a good match.

With the 2245 you might have to be careful how you drive the 2400. OTOH, you would have headroom.

Chas
10-30-2008, 11:59 AM
The 2400 has a 20 amp plug.


I had no idea. Thanks Scotty!:)

SMKSoundPro
10-30-2008, 02:06 PM
Yes! I installed dedicated panels of of the main 400amp service with a technically clean ground rod at the panel. All audio circuits are on that panel. Same in the little dance floor. All disco lighting relay and dimmer packs are plugged into the general shared panels of the buildings. The tow things, audio and lighting don't meet, easily.

I am talking my crown macro rack on mobile dj gigs, where power at the venue is soft. In the major hotel ballrooms, there is always some 50 amp 4 pole range plugs available and I always carry portable power distro panels for those. Its the golf club dining room/ballroom, or the local private civic center kind of thing. As long as the power is solid, and all of my wiring is 10 ga. stranded in conduit, everything is fine. My #1 job at the pro sound company was mains electrician. ABC's. Airway, Breathing, Circulation. Jobs on pro sound gigs. Power for chain hoists and the like. I was tweeko boy. Then came stacks and racks.

I am pm' ing you Scotty.

ScottyK.


Scotty, does your system have its own dedicated Main, and breaker panel, WITH NO SHARED NEUTRALS? Each 20 amp and 30 amp receptacle on its OWN breaker?

Cause, THIS makes a difference.

scott fitlin
10-30-2008, 06:18 PM
Yes! I installed dedicated panels of of the main 400amp service with a technically clean ground rod at the panel. All audio circuits are on that panel. Same in the little dance floor. All disco lighting relay and dimmer packs are plugged into the general shared panels of the buildings. The tow things, audio and lighting don't meet, easily.

I am talking my crown macro rack on mobile dj gigs, where power at the venue is soft. In the major hotel ballrooms, there is always some 50 amp 4 pole range plugs available and I always carry portable power distro panels for those. Its the golf club dining room/ballroom, or the local private civic center kind of thing. As long as the power is solid, and all of my wiring is 10 ga. stranded in conduit, everything is fine. My #1 job at the pro sound company was mains electrician. ABC's. Airway, Breathing, Circulation. Jobs on pro sound gigs. Power for chain hoists and the like. I was tweeko boy. Then came stacks and racks.

I am pm' ing you Scotty.

ScottyK.These hotel dining rooms, ballrooms, golf clubs, etc?

Here's an area definitely favoring some todays lightweight PFC amplifier designs that operate through a wide variety of AC fluctuation and conditions!

NOT ONLY THAT, a rack that is 50% lighter is one your back will thank you for!

AND, some of these new lightweight designs sound good. They just do.

4345
01-19-2009, 03:08 PM
Why is it that when discussing the K2 everyone says to use it for subs only in a hifi situation? What is lacking in the top end for hifi use? I use mine on subs now but was thinking of getting another for a full range application.

robertbartsch
01-19-2009, 03:50 PM
...after buying two old pre amps and a power amp and having them all blow up recently, I WILL NEVER BUY OLD ELECTRONICS AGAIN!

Crown is offering a rebate on new amps.

I just bought another 802d amp for 399 and I will receive a factory crown rebate of $100 making my cost 300 for a 500wpc stereo amp that is BULLIT proof.

mech986
01-19-2009, 06:46 PM
Hi Robert,

What type of old equipment did you buy and what happened?

Regards,

Bart

scott fitlin
01-19-2009, 08:26 PM
...after buying two old pre amps and a power amp and having them all blow up recently, I WILL NEVER BUY OLD ELECTRONICS AGAIN!

Crown is offering a rebate on new amps.

I just bought another 802d amp for 399 and I will receive a factory crown rebate of $100 making my cost 300 for a 500wpc stereo amp that is BULLIT proof.I feel your pain, I do.

It happened to me too many times, all eBay stuff, and I swore off the bay, PERIOD!

I WAS ALL ABOUT VINTAGE, TOO, but I'll tell you this, once you figure ou which of the new amps, what crossovers, and of course, SPEAKERS, IT HASN'T BEEN BAD FOR ME AT ALL! I use a bit of vintage, MY STUFF THAT I HAVE HAD!

But the new stuff works.

SMKSoundPro
01-20-2009, 12:37 PM
ScottyJ,

tell me more about your 2441 w/radian phragms as compared to my 2445's with 2445 titanium phragms. The tit's are a bit harsh and two of them are pointed dead square straight at my mix position.

will radians soften the ride, and still give me a "musical" experience?

(and I don't mean in a "Grease" "Hairspray" "SouthPacific" kind of way!)

ScottyK.

scott fitlin
01-21-2009, 04:32 AM
ScottyJ,

tell me more about your 2441 w/radian phragms as compared to my 2445's with 2445 titanium phragms. The tit's are a bit harsh and two of them are pointed dead square straight at my mix position.

will radians soften the ride, and still give me a "musical" experience?

(and I don't mean in a "Grease" "Hairspray" "SouthPacific" kind of way!)

ScottyK.I didn't like the Radian diaphragms, so I stick with JBL aluminum phragms.

I have a preference for Al diaphragms, I find Ti phragms to be exactly as you describe, a bit harsh.

Im using JBL 2441J,s with JBL D16R2441 diaphragms.

SMKSoundPro
01-21-2009, 09:02 AM
I have four 2445 drivers in the rig, and only two 2441 and two 2440 phragms. They are all currently in drivers here on the shelf. I don't see where mixing the two different diaphragms in the rig is a good thing, in this instance.

Also, I am not completely sure about a 2441 phragm in a 2445/2385 horn. Might be great! I might have to find some more '41 frams.

scotty.

scott fitlin
01-21-2009, 12:33 PM
I have four 2445 drivers in the rig, and only two 2441 and two 2440 phragms. They are all currently in drivers here on the shelf. I don't see where mixing the two different diaphragms in the rig is a good thing, in this instance.

Also, I am not completely sure about a 2441 phragm in a 2445/2385 horn. Might be great! I might have to find some more '41 frams.

scotty.What amp are you using to power your 2445 drivers?

SMKSoundPro
01-21-2009, 03:13 PM
I'm using a Crown Macro 24x6. 2400 side for the four 2225's and the 600 side for two 2445's. then a Macro 600 for the two bullets.

I have the gain on the 2445 drive pulled way back to keep from splitting my head open at 35', and still have the inteligability(?) without it sounding so harsh.

scott fitlin
01-22-2009, 03:59 PM
I'm using a Crown Macro 24x6. 2400 side for the four 2225's and the 600 side for two 2445's. then a Macro 600 for the two bullets.

I have the gain on the 2445 drive pulled way back to keep from splitting my head open at 35', and still have the inteligability(?) without it sounding so harsh.TOO MUCH POWER FOR TWO 2445,s Thats why they are screaming at you.

Do you have a DC-300A? f you do, try that on your 2445,s 1 per channel. Hey scott I run 6 JBL 2441/2395,s on 1 DC-300A and Im NOT lacking volume, but for sure this will be a tamer sound. AND it will improve your bass, dramatically!

Your 2 bullets! Macro 600 is an awful lot of power for them, I imagine they must get kind of shrieky sounding?

1 D-75, 1 bullet per channel should be more than enough, and they will sound a whole lot more sparkly,too. I run 16 bullets on 1 D-150A, 8 per channel, again, not lacking for spl.

Crossovers! Scott, I want to get you into some Marchands made the way mine are! Not overly expensive, and they are good! Ill tell you one thing I do, 12db butterworth all woofers, and my horns, you can use 18db butterworth on the tweeters @ 7K, this will give you what you want!

Now you should find some more bullets, make hanging clusters, over the center of your dance floor, and find some 2404 bi Radials to have on your stacks!

You see, my bullets sound like that, but it's really the bi radials you hear, ITS AN ILLUSION!

A;so, LET YOUR 15,s go down all the way, use a 12db 35hz high pass filter, again, ITS NOT THE SUBS YOU HEAR IN MY ROOM MAKING THE WONDERFUL SOUNDING BASS! ITS MY 15,s, and the 18,s are underlying, you feel them, BUT AGAIN, ITS AN ILLUSION!

I heard 2446,s this summer on a Crown Power Line 4, essentially an enhanced DC-300A, MAN did they sound good, and I don't like Ti, BUT, this guy had em sounding good! Still a bit tizzy up top, but smoooother than I have heard them before!

Also, YOUR horns need to roll off where your tweeters come in, this will also help tame the nasties!

Im getting ready to ship your amps, and I can help you to achieve that NIGHTCLUB sound you seek.
:D

jbl_daddy
01-22-2009, 06:46 PM
How does the K2 make so much power???
I have attached the inside picture of my K2, where does all the heat go???

SMKSoundPro
01-22-2009, 07:34 PM
Scottyj, I don't have a DC-300a. I have a D-150 and a D-60 up here in the rack in my bathroom.

Do you believe that the one channel of 600 is too much for two 2445 on 2385 horns with protection caps? Boy, I don't know. When called for, I can lean on it a little harder and drive the highs (800 - 8k) a little more. I have the pv 4 way xovers at my left hand rack.

The 2225's go down to 70hz, and up to 800hz. The subs are on their own aux drive from the board to a rane ac22 from 80hz down.

I gotta tell ya, it ain't too shabby. I drive it, alot and definitely is doing everything I want it to. The question was about an AL vs. Ti diaphragm, or the radians.

Scottyk.

scott fitlin
01-22-2009, 07:37 PM
The K series was Crowns beginning in Digital amps, Class BCI outputs, similar I guess to the I techs.

These newfangled amps are VERY EFFICIENT, and dont produce alot of heat.

We have reached the point in time where these types of amps are POWERFUL, and sound GOOD!

I use an I Tech on some massive size folded horns, I LOVE IT!

And with todays digital music, the new amps produce tight sounding bass, that is a good thing!

:D

scott fitlin
01-22-2009, 07:41 PM
Scottyj, I don't have a DC-300a. I have a D-150 and a D-60 up here in the rack in my bathroom.

Do you believe that the one channel of 600 is too much for two 2445 on 2385 horns with protection caps? Boy, I don't know. When called for, I can lean on it a little harder and drive the highs (800 - 8k) a little more. I have the pv 4 way xovers at my left hand rack.

The 2225's go down to 70hz, and up to 800hz. The subs are on their own aux drive from the board to a rane ac22 from 80hz down.

I gotta tell ya, it ain't too shabby. I drive it, alot and definitely is doing everything I want it to. The question was about an AL vs. Ti diaphragm, or the radians.

Scottyk.You can get a DC-300A cheap, and IMHO, it will blow the Macro away on compression drivers, and Comp drivers and bullet tweeters are soooo damned efficient, your horns become screamy and shouty, and it also thins out your bass, TRUST ME, I know what Im saying.

Listen Scotty, JUST try letting your 15,s go down to 35hz, YOU WILL HEAR A BIG DIFFERENCE! It will Flesh up and Round out your sound!

TRUST ME!

scott fitlin
01-22-2009, 07:44 PM
Scott you want radian phragms? I have six!

I paid $99.00ea, Ill let you have the amount you want, $70.00ea!

Aluminum is a softer sound, doesnt go up as high as Ti, AND THAT IS WHY I LOVE Al, BUT Im sticking to JBL phragms.

My phragms are 16 ohm.


:D

scott fitlin
01-22-2009, 08:41 PM
I gotta tell ya, it ain't too shabby. I drive it, alot and definitely is doing everything I want it to.

Scottyk.I DRIVE MY SYSTEM, and I DRIVE IT HARD AT TIMEs, VERY! And yet, it is clear maintains it's composure and remains distortion free, and HITS LIKE A SPEEDING FREIGHT TRAIN!

I let my TAD-1603,s go all the way down and roll off naturally, the TAD,s FS is 28hz, and I KNOW my cabinets DO NOT GO down that low, but when we wouild crossover and roll off the 15,s above 35hz, NOPE, TOO THIN SOUNDING!

AND I DON'T BLOW 15,s, either. I also, personally, am NOT fond of 4th order slopes and filters, too unnatural sounding.

I come from the days when NYC had Studio54, and The Paradise garage, and RICHARD LONG MADE THE BEST CLUB SOUND, EVER!

I copied him to a degree, WE HAD HIM in Eldorado in 1986, PHENOMENAL SOUND!

My system is a MAMMOTH! But it's sweet sound, and very lucid, too!

Now, The Crown DC-300A will be a warmer sound than the macro tech series, macros are good for bass, YES, but NOT my choice for high frequencies.

Your 2445,s? H or J, 8 ohm or 16?

I always used 16 ohm compression drivers, NEVER felt the need for more.

The D-150A, I used that for years on the six 2395/2441,s, but, with todays music, you need a bit more, I found my thrill with the DC-300A. I had Bryston, Mcitntosh, BGW, MacCormack, QSC, on my horns, I dunno, I gotta have a Crown, BUT up high, I like the older crowns, down low, I LOVE THE NEW CROWNS!

What mixer do you use for DJ,s in your system? Im an old Bozak and Urei man, but these days I am using a Rane 2016A, works well, too! I had a BSS EQ, a pair of KT,s, a pair of Rane EQ,s, I ran back to my White 4200A,s, I have combination of vintage and new, and IT ROCKZZZZZZZZ!

When you gonna come to NY? I would loved to show you my system, and let you spin a few a few tunes as well.

You better hurry, CONEY ISLAND is NOT gonna around much longer, and Im sad about this, But..........

I learned life in THAT place My family and I built!