2242HPL "test".

[Doc Mark]

Evening, All,

Today, whilst listening to Boz Scaggs' "Dig" CD (Thanks, again, Heather!), I decided to dig out that JBL 2242HPL I got for $30 at a swap meet a while back, and give it a little "test". Shutting down the system momentarily, I hooked up the 2242HPL in place of one L300, then set it, face up, on top of one of the open boxes in which my 4411's were originally shipped. Firing up the system, once again, with the balance cranked all the way over to the 2242, I cautiously raised the volume, and listened for any scraping, static, buzzing, or any other noise that might indicate a problem with this woofer. Nothing, at first.... Then, I cranked it up a good deal more, and began to hear a scratchy sound from the 2242!! :blink::( What could it be, I asked myself??? Then, it suddenly dawned on me: I'd left the styrofoam from the 4411's, loose, inside the box!! THAT was what I heard!! After removing the foam, I cranked the 2242 up even more, and it was crisp, clean, punchy, and sounded great!! Since it was, basically, "unloaded", and just sitting on top of an open cardboard box, I saw some excursion that will probably not be there, once this woofer is installed in an enclosure of proper volume, and tuned as it should. I'm stoked that, apparently, my $30 JBL is going to work out just as I'd hoped!! You never know, really, if such a buy is a good one, or a POS, until you play around with it for a bit. Now, I want to build a box for it, and use it as Pete has done with his B460 subwoofer!! (Thanks for the photos of your B460, Pete, as it gave me the idea of putting my subwoofer right in the middle of the L300's, instead of hiding it in the corner!) I'm very thankful that this driver appears to be in good shape, and needs nothing other than a new dust cap, as it came to me with the cap smooshed in. "Smooshed" IS a word, isn't it??!! ;):D

OK, so another JBL project will definitely be in the offing this Winter!! Life is good!! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[scott fitlin]

Isn't the 2242 a KICK ASS driver?

The real thing about this driver is, you do your system properly, box, and box tuning, xover all the things that go with that, the RIGHT AMP, and get your room balanced out with great integration among all your systems speakers, meaning synergy i.e.; entire systems works and sounds like one, instead of mish mosh of individual things, and at low level, your systems resolve will open up beyond your expectations. At low levels, with a great recording, you'll hear things you never heard before, and with clarity, dimensionality, imaging, and DYNAMICS GALORE!

Of course, when you do KICK IT, and I'm sure you will find the NEED to KICK IT, THE JBL 2242H, IT KICKS! And does so with HorseD__k size. Clean, punchy, and defined, too!

I love them, my Widget subs in center stacks have FOUR 2242,s each, I'm getting EIGHT more for Corner Scoop loading, IT'S AN OUTSTANDING SOUNDING 18!

[Doc Mark]

Hey, Scotty,

HOLY MACARONIE AND CHEESE SANDWICH!!! EIGHT 2242H's???!!! :blink::blink::blink: I can't even imagine how much sound pressure they must put out!! How many watts are you feeding each one of them? Where have you crossed them over, and to what? Active crossover, and if so, what kind? Sorry for all the questions, but man, that's a lot of 2242H's!!!

I think the one I have will be more than enough for the system(s) we have now, and will have in the near future. Our place will be stuffed to the gills with just what I'm already planning, much less SEVEN more 2242H's!! Plus, the expense is scary, even just thinking about it!! :blink::eek::jawdrop: Holy Moly Chicken Soup!!! How big is your listening area? Did Widget design your subs, or did you buy them directly from him? Didn't know the Good Sir did such things. Always something new to learn, here at LH, though!! As for my own use of the 2242H I have on hand, I will install it in a cabinet designed for 4695C specs, and that should give me a bit more extreme bottom end, when needed, and take a bit of the load off the L300's, which sound pretty darned good all by themselves, already!! I will have to use the amps I already have on hand, with will mean a Crown DC300A, in mono-mode, crossed over around 100HZ, I think. For the listening we do, that should just about do the trick. But, with the new Ashly XR-4001, I can play with the crossover points, and pick whatever sounds the best for the combinations available. Once I get the 4333 boxes soundworthy, and one the sub has been built, then the additional fun can begin. Until then, I'm in deep lust with our L300's, and am really glad that we got them from Regis!! He's happy, and so are we!! Thanks for your comments, Scotty. Much appreciated, and if you have photos of your system, like Pete, I'd love to see what you have. Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[scott fitlin]

My Bumper Car room is 90' L x 50' W. I have FOUR double 18in ported cabinets Widget buuil,t for me, each one weighs like 400lbs, I don't think he will do these again. Two center stacks four JBL 2242 each. This summer I ran them on a QSC 6.0, 2ohms per channel 3250/3500 watts per four drivers, THEY ARE ROBUST, and SOUND HELLACIOUS! Two Crown Macro Tech 9000i gonna run The WIDGETS next summer. No dissrespect tot the QSC, IT RUNS GREAT, even at 2 ohms a side, FULL TILT BOOGIE, 14 hours a day, just that Crown has a slightly different sound, I love Crown tone. But, lemme tell ya, The QSC sounds GREAT too.

I use basshorns everywhere else, corners have double 18in scoops, 2240 loaded, time to upgrade, new scoops or retro fit old cabs with new woofers, EIGHT WOOFERS, Im gonna power the 4 ccorner cabs with 2 Crown Macro tech 9000i amps.

Then I have these four CADILLAC ESCALADE SIZED J Horn Folded Horns, they are getting RCF LF18ND451,s! 1 Crown Macro Tech 9000i to run these four drivers.

Twelve TAD 1603 fifteens, and UP to last week, I was gonna run six Crown PSA-2,s bridge mono, 1 amp per pair of TADS,s, and THEN I played games with a MUCH NEWER 1200wpc@4ohm Crown amp, I'm on the fence, not sure how I will end up powering these just yet. Only thing I DO KNOW for sure, is TADs are getting more power this year, whatever amps it is I decide to use.

Theres more system, we talk in morning.

I cross over 100hz, 18DB, Butterworth, not a true subwoofer point, BUT, Im a DANCE MUSIC system, WE MAKE SOME BOOM BOOM, well, NO, WE MAKE A TON OF BOOM BOOM. I am going to be having marchand make me some new customized crossovers this winter as well.

SIMON BAR SINNISTER SAYS>>>> DANCE!

[scott fitlin]

Try the Crown DC-300A in bridge mono, might be enough in your size room, BUT, IF you want to do it right, Get someone to let you play with a more modern Crown, and see what happens. What happened with me, and IT WAS EAR OPENING, the older tradtional style amps, even a 90,s crown Macro Tech 3600VZ, 2 drivers per channel just sounded a bit I dunno, mushy, soggy, bloated, to me. And I tried some newer technology, current styles of output topology amps, WHAT I HEARD wasn't even FUNNY! Bass was TIGHT, NOT hard, Tight and TAUT, bass notes had FAR superior clarity and definition, transients, HOLY F__KIN S__T! It wasn't even a contest! Another thing I'll pass along, with many of the current cutting edge technology amps, YOU HAVE TO BUY QUALITY, it's not about the TOY STORE quality lines of amps here, YOU GOTTA BUY SUMTHIN GOOOOOD! But, IF you do, 2242 will tell you the things YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO HEAR! i DIDNT even GIVE IT A SECOND THOUGHT, I WENT WHERE MY EARS TOLD ME TOO! Most of all, AND I mean this SINCERELY, playing modern recordings, that have MUCH deeper bass, than recordings had in the DC-300 era, even at low level, was superior to what the older amps were giving me, IN THESE NEW DRIVERS, and the lack of PUSHING the amp even if just slightly, IS AUDIBLE, VERY!

2242 LIKES power, and if you ever decide to REALLY kick that bad boy, especially with some modern dance, jazz, or whatever, then you will have the power to have that 2242 reproduce some deeeeeep heavy duty low end, without straining the amp, etc.

I LOVE vintage Crown, don't get me wrong, I use a DC-300A on my six 2395/2441,s, but 2242 can do wonders ith some HORSEPOWER. It,s NOT your fathers Oldsmobile!

It can go MUCH MUCH MUCH faster!

:bouncy:

[Doc Mark]

Hey, Scotty,

Your comments cracked me up!!! :D:D So, if "newer" is "better", what suggestions might you make in that regard? I've always thought that some vintage amps, just like some vintage speakers, were a little better made, "way back when", and that the specs on those Crowns are good. To my ear, they produce very tight, and well controlled bass. However, I think the SPL's that you are needing in your system, and what I want out of mine, and completely different can of auditory worms!! ;):blink::D I wonder if I'd be able to hear any difference, at all, between a "new" amp, and my old H/K, or Crown amps??? :dont-know

In any case, I'd appreciate some suggestions as to what you think might be better than what I have on hand. Money is a massive concern, especially right now, however. So, it may well come down to "a bird in the hand", in the end! ;):bouncy: Thanks for your thoughts, and I look forward to reading your amp suggestions. An idea on pricing on whatever you suggest would be nice, too. Thanks, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[scott fitlin]

Well, I never said the DC-300A was not made well. They were made VERY well. SPL needs, yes, my needs are much larger. BUT we all agree, we hear differences between this and that, etc, amps to amps, eq,s woofers, etc?

I have always had his little theory that items of a particular era seem to work better togeher than pairing , for example, vintage compression drivers with a 2008 amplifier. I USED to be IF IT wasn't a VINTAGE crown, I don't want to hear it. And then you start to use some woofers current or very recent technology, and for whatever reason, you can't gdet it to happen exactly as you want.

The DC-300A DID used to be used to drive single 18in vented cabinets, loacded with a JBL 2240H! And that was somethin to hear especially at a concert, where they had 50 or 100 of them under the stage.

So I just proved u right, and myself wrong, right? WRONG!

The 2242H and the 2240H have different gaps, and different voice coils. The 2242H also has a deeper magnet assembly, the '42 is a 1/2in deeper than the E155-8, 2240H, or even the 2241H.

Safe to say, electrically each of these woofers will behave slightly different from each other, maybe even difference in sound, cause to my ear, I hear differences between all these woofers, they are all JBL, but they don't sound identical to each other! And one of the things that I hear, is that the frequencies where each of these models of JBL 18,s really puts out, their efficiency if you will, each one is different.

And I will always say yeah when we were using that woofer, THIS amp made them sing. And Ive tried so many combinations. Todays woofers/yesterdays amps, yesterdays woofers/todays amps, same/same, and " same/same " always works out with the best results for me.

And I tell it the way I hear it, and I HAVE TO SAY THIS, Doc, I'm serious about my sound, not kind of sort of, oh hey lets play Macarena, yes that good enough leave it set up that way!

I'm dead serious about it, and I found some things this past year, and it made/makes all the differerence in the world, and forget what I'm saying, my customers would ask HOW do you get it to sound like this?

[scott fitlin]

For your 2242 I would actually recommend finding a GOOD condition Crown K1, or K2, and use that in Bridge mono!

[Zilch]

What am I not getting about 2242H?

In 4645C they need Q=2 assist @ 25 Hz to "Get down," no:

http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/support/getfile.aspx?doctype=3&docid=626

I can see where two per cabinet would benefit from mutual coupling, but....

Did I ask this before and room gain does it in smaller spaces? :dont-know

[Doc Mark]

Hey, Zilch,

Interesting question, and one that is beyond my meager capabilities, unfortunately. What is your own opinion about that? Will the room size make a huge difference in the performance of the 4645? And, if so, what sort of performance should I expect to get from that combination in our Living Room? Thanks, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[4313B]

What am I not getting about 2242H?I've covered this before.

The sloped response of the newer transducers seems to be preferred because they work in a larger variety of venues and are more scalable. With the older LE10/124/2203/128H/LE14/136/2231/2235/2245 one tended to get fairly flat response down into the low thirties and with room gain one could end up with excessive low frequency response. Electrical EQ cut was the only real answer since boundary reinforcement was difficult to avoid.

The newer transducers offer a sloped response that seems to work well with room gain, boundary reinforcement and electrical EQ. Used in banks for the required power handling and maximum acoustic output combined with scalable coupling the 2242H is king of the hill. It is an ultra clean transducer with very high acoustic output in the largest venues.

It is true that the older 2245H is probably the better bet than the 2242H for a home subwoofer. It has excellent resolution at the volume levels normally encountered in the home.

Note that the SUB1500 or W1500H offer the same bandwidth as the 2245H in one-third the enclosure volume but they are very expensive and tough to obtain.

[Doc Mark]

Evening, 4313B,

That's wonderful information, and even though you've passed it around before, I very much appreciate your sharing it here, too! Since I already own the 2242H, that's what I'll use for my subwoofer project. It may be just perfect for my needs. But, if I am still curious, which very well might happen, I'll find a good 2245H, and have another go at it. Thanks, again, Sir, for your always insightful and educational information!! And, as a bonus, I get a real charge out of your sense of humor, too!! ;):D Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[pmakres1]

Evening, 4313B,

That's wonderful information, and even though you've passed it around before, I very much appreciate your sharing it here, too! Since I already own the 2242H, that's what I'll use for my subwoofer project. It may be just perfect for my needs. But, if I am still curious, which very well might happen, I'll find a good 2245H, and have another go at it. Thanks, again, Sir, for your always insightful and educational information!! And, as a bonus, I get a real charge out of your sense of humor, too!! ;):D Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

I can't vouch for the 2242H, but I can readily back what 4313B has said with respect to the 2245H's resolution at low levels: it is superb. It is very musical, it can resolve very delicate, low level passages very well at low volume levels, and yet can rock the house when called upon to do so. All this while not being boomy or muddy, indeed it has great tone.

I love my B460 sub. I had its 2245H reconed last year, so it is good for a long, long time.

Pete

[Doc Mark]

Hello, Pete,

Thank you, very much, for your comments on this comparison. I appreciate and value what you have to say. As I already own the 2242H, it makes the most sense to continue with that woofer in my project. Since the enclosure will be the same size for the 2245H, if I don't find the 2242H to be doing the job I want it to do, I'll immediately begin searching for a good 2245H! In fact, should I find a good one even before I'm ready to play with it, and if I have a few extra ducats jingling in my jeans, I will most certainly buy it! Thank you for adding so much to my enjoyment of this thread, Pete!! Much appreciated! Once I get our guest room and guest bathroom redone, you would be welcome to visit our humble mountain home, anytime you are in the area. Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[pmakres1]

Hello, Pete,

Thank you, very much, for your comments on this comparison. I appreciate and value what you have to say. As I already own the 2242H, it makes the most sense to continue with that woofer in my project. Since the enclosure will be the same size for the 2245H, if I don't find the 2242H to be doing the job I want it to do, I'll immediately begin searching for a good 2245H! In fact, should I find a good one even before I'm ready to play with it, and if I have a few extra ducats jingling in my jeans, I will most certainly buy it! Thank you for adding so much to my enjoyment of this thread, Pete!! Much appreciated! Once I get our guest room and guest bathroom redone, you would be welcome to visit our humble mountain home, anytime you are in the area. Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

Thanks Doc...
for the invite....I'd love to do that. I've never been to Cal, or out west at all, for that matter. Right now, any trips like that would be out of the question. But someday, who knows...

Keep me (us) posted on your project progress!

Pete

[spkrman57]

If a 2242 in a appropriate cabinet does not work well for you I think a 2245 would not work any better.

I have owned a pair of 2242's in 9 cu ft tuned to 28hz and it threatened to dismantle my house with its capabilities.

And also, I only used a sub plate amp rated at 250 watts for both drivers to share!!!

For professional duty, or for a very large room I can see using more wattage, but my house is small and pipe organ notes were felt, not heard!!!

Just my 2 cents worth!!!

Cheers, Ron




As I already own the 2242H, it makes the most sense to continue with that woofer in my project. Since the enclosure will be the same size for the 2245H, if I don't find the 2242H to be doing the job I want it to do, I'll immediately begin searching for a good 2245H!
Every Good Wish,
Doc

[Mr. Widget]

If a 2242 in a appropriate cabinet does not work well for you I think a 2245 would not work any better.

I have owned a pair of 2242's in 9 cu ft tuned to 28hz and it threatened to dismantle my house with its capabilities.

And also, I only used a sub plate amp rated at 250 watts for both drivers to share!!!

For professional duty, or for a very large room I can see using more wattage, but my house is small and pipe organ notes were felt, not heard!!!
I think you missed the point. No one suggested that the 2242 would be inferior to the 2245 as a demolition tool. The 2242 is awesome in it's power capabilities. The only criticism was that the 2245 will sound better to many listeners. Not louder. Not bolder or more in your face, just better.


Widget

[scott fitlin]

All of this is true.

As a "TRUE" subwoofer, one thats there ONLY when theres information down there to be reproduced, and BE felt, NOT heard, the 2245 is the driver.

Nonetheless, for WHAT it IS, the 2242 is ONE of the BEST Pro 18in woofers you can get.

No one is saying for anyone to rid themselves of 2245,s in favor of 2242,s, thats ridiculous.

Like when I first read this thread, it's title is 2242HPL " TEST ", so I chimed in, because I really DO like them. They do what I NEED THEM too, and do so sounding well, IN MY APPLICATION.

I wasn't reading the other thread where it was stated that he got this woofer and intended to use it as a 2245, EVEN I would have said NO thats not the ticket.

BUT, and I have USED many, The JBL 2242H is a GREAT sounding 18, even though it IS NOT a 2245. Obviously, my application is MUCH different.

And yes, I USE ALOT MORE WATTAGE!

HOUSE DEMOLITION! That HOT! My system can demolish houses 3 blocks away! I guess its a good thing there are no houses around me.

:D

[scott fitlin]

The arcade doswn the block from me on Surf av said to me one night Hey Scott, my stuff is vibrating off the shelves from your bass.

This arcade has to be almost a block away from me, and what? 4 to 500 ft?

Hey, Im helping you move product!

:applaud:

[Ducatista47]

The sloped response of the newer transducers seems to be preferred because they work in a larger variety of venues and are more scalable. With the older LE10/124/2203/128H/LE14/136/2231/2235/2245 one tended to get fairly flat response down into the low thirties and with room gain one could end up with excessive low frequency response. Electrical EQ cut was the only real answer since boundary reinforcement was difficult to avoid.

I realize this question is an off topic, ignorant interjection, but is that why raising 4345's six to ten inches off the floor improves the response? A poor substitute for soffit mounting, but at least easy to do in the home.

Clark

[Doc Mark]

Hey, Clark,

You bring up a very good point, and one that I've been considering. Regis has the floor stand for these L300's replaced with hardwood, and a good job was done of it, too. But, as I listen to them, I've given though to elevating them about 10-12" more off the floor, especially if I end up using a big subwoofer with them. That would get the high end closer to ear level, and I wonder how that might effect the sound of these Bad Boys? I may have to play a little, and find out for myself! ;):D I have even considered making my other pair of 2235H's into subwoofers, housed in the 4333 cabinets, and stacking the L300's on top of them. Hummmm.... Lots of possibilities, lots of fun in the offing! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[Doc Mark]

If a 2242 in a appropriate cabinet does not work well for you I think a 2245 would not work any better.

I have owned a pair of 2242's in 9 cu ft tuned to 28hz and it threatened to dismantle my house with its capabilities.

And also, I only used a sub plate amp rated at 250 watts for both drivers to share!!!

For professional duty, or for a very large room I can see using more wattage, but my house is small and pipe organ notes were felt, not heard!!!

Just my 2 cents worth!!!

Cheers, Ron

Hey, Ron,

Many thanks for the comments! Do you still use that system? Where did you crossover the 2242H's to the woofers? Electronically? What slope?

As the highest this thing will play is about 90-100HZ, I'm thinking that the 2242H should do very well. Am I wrong in thinking that the basic "sound" and "character" of the bottom end is going to be defined by the 2235H's, and not the 2242H? I've also thought of crossing the sub over at around 60 HZ, which, again, would take a bit of load off the 2235H's, and fill in the very bottom end of our system. I guess time will tell, and when I have time to get to this, I'll post my results here.

Thanks, again, for your advice and comments, Ron. Much appreciated! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[4313B]

is that why raising 4345's six to ten inches off the floor improves the response? A poor substitute for soffit mounting, but at least easy to do in the home.As we've discussed numerous times it sure can help just so long as the HF components are kept near ear level. :yes:

I think you missed the point.Yeah, it's kind of weird. I suspect I often don't get my point across as intended. I hope Zilch got the drift of my post with respect to multiple transducers. Specifically, banks of the newer drivers work better together compared with banks of the older drivers.

[mikebake]

All of this is true.

As a "TRUE" subwoofer, one thats there ONLY when theres information down there to be reproduced, and BE felt, NOT heard, the 2245 is the driver.

Nonetheless, for WHAT it IS, the 2242 is ONE of the BEST Pro 18in woofers you can get.

No one is saying for anyone to rid themselves of 2245,s in favor of 2242,s, thats ridiculous.

Like when I first read this thread, it's title is 2242HPL " TEST ", so I chimed in, because I really DO like them. They do what I NEED THEM too, and do so sounding well, IN MY APPLICATION.

I wasn't reading the other thread where it was stated that he got this woofer and intended to use it as a 2245, EVEN I would have said NO thats not the ticket.

BUT, and I have USED many, The JBL 2242H is a GREAT sounding 18, even though it IS NOT a 2245. Obviously, my application is MUCH different.

And yes, I USE ALOT MORE WATTAGE!

HOUSE DEMOLITION! That HOT! My system can demolish houses 3 blocks away! I guess its a good thing there are no houses around me.

:D
Have you checked out the 2268 or 2269? I am quite impressed with the 2268.

[scott fitlin]

I look at them, I think the specs are BEYOND impressive, are they available to purchase as drivers?

And, are either one of them suitable for horn loading? Because, I'll tell you this, as far as corner scoops, and my center cabs, I LIKE The 2242,s, Their PUNCHY.


But those FOUR J Horns I have, the RCF 18 I want to put in them, EXTREMELY suitable for this type of horn, fast response, REALLY HIGH BL, etc!

But the summer that I had, the WAY these JBL,s did their thing, IF JBL has a driver, that can take THAT kind of power, ( I know these are high power handlers ) and REALLY work in these behemoths, the way I feel about JBL again, I WON'T HESITATE! I'd buy FOUR in a HEARTBEAT!

To me, that would be ULTIMATE, ALL JBL 18,s, and YES I would do it!

[Zilch]

I hope Zilch got the drift of my post with respect to multiple transducers. Specifically, banks of the newer drivers work better together compared with banks of the older drivers.I believe I did, yes, mutual coupling and boundary reinforcement, and also room gain below 30 Hz at home.... :banana:

[mikebake]

I look at them, I think the specs are BEYOND impressive, are they available to purchase as drivers?

And, are either one of them suitable for horn loading?
Yes, they are available. Not sure about suitability for horn loading.

[scott fitlin]

Yes, they are available. Not sure about suitability for horn loading.Yeah, I went to the site and read the TS parameters, neither looks quite proper for horn loading, BUT, I like that 2268, moves a nice amount of air!

Now for my scoops, WHICH in conjunction with the center ported cabs, and J Horns REALLY made something OUTSTANDING, and the 2242 IS suitable for the scoop, and its been done already, WE know it works, So, EIGHT more up for that!

Then for the J Horns RCF has this neo 18, the company says they are designed for basshorn use and the specs say YEAH, REALLY PROPER! The RCF LF18ND451.

Hey Mike, 16 JBL 2242 to FOUR RCF, and six JBL horns and 2in and 22 jbl TWEETERS, SO, JBL IS STILL WINNING! lol!

And 5 NEW Crown Macro Tech 9000i Series to run all the subs.

Oh man! :bouncy:

[spkrman57]

Hey, Ron,

Many thanks for the comments! Do you still use that system? Where did you crossover the 2242H's to the woofers? Electronically? What slope?

I believe the amp had a crossover of 12db/oct. I ran it at 40hz even though my midbass horn only ran down to 100hz. My room is small (12' x 16').

As the highest this thing will play is about 90-100HZ, I'm thinking that the 2242H should do very well. Am I wrong in thinking that the basic "sound" and "character" of the bottom end is going to be defined by the 2235H's, and not the 2242H? I've also thought of crossing the sub over at around 60 HZ, which, again, would take a bit of load off the 2235H's, and fill in the very bottom end of our system. I guess time will tell, and when I have time to get to this, I'll post my results here.

There is too many variables in that last paragraph for me to advise you on!

Thanks, again, for your advice and comments, Ron. Much appreciated! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc


I no longer have that system of 2242's as they were too much for my room!

Regards, Ron

[4313B]

I believe I did, yes, mutual coupling and boundary reinforcement, and also room gain below 30 Hz at home.... :banana:I'm going to add more info to this thread: 2268HPL Question (http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=22247)

[boputnam]

I've covered this before.

The sloped response of the newer transducers seems to be preferred because they work in a larger variety of venues and are more scalable. With the older LE10/124/2203/128H/LE14/136/2231/2235/2245 one tended to get fairly flat response down into the low thirties and with room gain one could end up with excessive low frequency response. Electrical EQ cut was the only real answer since boundary reinforcement was difficult to avoid.

The newer transducers offer a sloped response that seems to work well with room gain, boundary reinforcement and electrical EQ. Used in banks for the required power handling and maximum acoustic output combined with scalable coupling the 2242H is king of the hill. It is an ultra clean transducer with very high acoustic output in the largest venues.

It is true that the older 2245H is probably the better bet than the 2242H for a home subwoofer. It has excellent resolution at the volume levels normally encountered in the home.

Note that the SUB1500 or W1500H offer the same bandwidth as the 2245H in one-third the enclosure volume but they are very expensive and tough to obtain.Thanks, 4313B. Excellent recount and timely.

I confirm your knowledge with my personal experiences of the 2242H.

That said...


...I hooked up the 2242HPL in place of one L300, then set it, face up, on top of one of the open boxes in which my 4411's were originally shipped. Firing up the system, once again, with the balance cranked all the way over to the 2242, I cautiously raised the volume, and listened for any scraping, static, buzzing, or any other noise that might indicate a problem with this woofer. Nothing, at first.... Then, I cranked it up a good deal more... I cranked the 2242 up even more, and it was crisp, clean, punchy, and sounded great!! Since it was, basically, "unloaded", and just sitting on top of an open cardboard box, I saw some excursion that will probably not be there, once this woofer is installed in an enclosure of proper volume, and tuned as it should.I'd never do this even with a $30 woofer. To do this with a quality driver - any JBL, and especially the venerable 2242H - is real risky business. This is not a good way to test a driver.

Do not try this at home... :p

[Doc Mark]

Thanks, 4313B. Excellent recount and timely.

I confirm your knowledge with my personal experiences of the 2242H.

That said...

I'd never do this even with a $30 woofer. To do this with a quality driver - any JBL, and especially the venerable 2242H - is real risky business. This is not a good way to test a driver.

Do not try this at home... :p

Evening, Bo,

In truth, I never really laid on the power, but just wanted to see if I could hear any buzzing, scratchy sound, or other noises that might indicate that this speaker had problems. When I said "excursion", that was probably a poor choice of words. One disappointment that struck me when I first got this woofer, was that I could really see very little movement in the cone, when tapped by my finger. My 2235H's had far more movement. But, when I actually ran some music through the 2242H, whilst setting on that open box, I could actually see the cone move, which gave me hope that it might well be in decent shape. After Edgewound tested it, and really gave it some gas with the tone generator, the excursion was simply amazing!! I trusted him to know "how much was too much", and so it turned out. In any case, I left it with Ken, to have the dust cap replaced, along with both 128H woofers from those 4411's I got a little while back, which needed new foam. All goodies should be ready later this week, and I'm looking forward to meeting up with Ken again, and picking them up.

In any case, I do appreciate your thoughts about taking such chances with any woofer, and do tend to be fairly careful when doing so. Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[4313B]

I'd never do this even with a $30 woofer.What if it was someone else's woofer? :rotfl:

[boputnam]

What if it was someone else's woofer? :rotfl:Dammit, 4313B, now THAT's funny!


...After Edgewound tested it, and really gave it some gas with the tone generator, the excursion was simply amazing!! Ah, you see, but he had proper (calibrated) control over the voltage drive - you did not. He knows what these can take, better than most the rest of us. Good choice in master craftsman, "Doc"!

Tell me - whatever are you going to do with those 128H's? They pretty much suck. We have a dedicated disposal area for them here in NorCal. Send 'em my way and I'll be careful they never enter the environment... ;)

[JBL 4645]

I was fishing around looking at the various other JBL 18” sub bass drivers in the 22 range I see there is JBL 2242 hmm didn’t know that until I did a search on Google image then went over to Google main page to look-up a pdf file.

http://www2.jblpro.com/pub/components/2242.pdf (http://www2.jblpro.com/pub/components/2242.pdf)

I’m a little puzzled as the JBL 18” sub bass that I have doesn’t have JBL stamp or sticky label on the back! Its JBL all the way because the push in speaker terminals has JBL on them! Just puzzled as to what model it really is as I see there are many types.

I can see the dust cap is different that’s unmistakable to miss though the camera angle does make it a bit hard to tell. Each one has cloth ribbon surrounds and it make it’s a bit tough to tell. So I might be wrong about my JBL 2240 it might be JBL 2241? I like the frequency response range of the JBL 2242.

[Doc Mark]

Dammit, 4313B, now THAT's funny!

Ah, you see, but he had proper (calibrated) control over the voltage drive - you did not. He knows what these can take, better than most the rest of us. Good choice in master craftsman, "Doc"!

Tell me - whatever are you going to do with those 128H's? They pretty much suck. We have a dedicated disposal area for them here in NorCal. Send 'em my way and I'll be careful they never enter the environment... ;)

Hey, Bo,

Thanks for the tip, Sir, and I'll definitely keep that in mind next time I get itchy to "test" a woofer! ;):D

As to the 128H's, they will go back into their "house", my new 4411's! I'm looking forward to a little oiling, and then some testing of these guys. In fact, I've considered laying them sideways on top of the L300's, then then bi-amping them, using the 2235H's of the L300's as the subwoofers, and the 4411's from about 80HZ, up. Hummmmm..... I'll let you know how it sounds to me. In any case, all this is outstanding fun, that's for sure!! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[scott fitlin]

I was fishing around looking at the various other JBL 18” sub bass drivers in the 22 range I see there is JBL 2242 hmm didn’t know that until I did a search on Google image then went over to Google main page to look-up a pdf file.

http://www2.jblpro.com/pub/components/2242.pdf (http://www2.jblpro.com/pub/components/2242.pdf)

I’m a little puzzled as the JBL 18” sub bass that I have doesn’t have JBL stamp or sticky label on the back! Its JBL all the way because the push in speaker terminals has JBL on them! Just puzzled as to what model it really is as I see there are many types.

I can see the dust cap is different that’s unmistakable to miss though the camera angle does make it a bit hard to tell. Each one has cloth ribbon surrounds and it make it’s a bit tough to tell. So I might be wrong about my JBL 2240 it might be JBL 2241? I like the frequency response range of the JBL 2242.
The 2240 has its vent hole in the center of the magnet structure, the 2241 has three vent holes around the middle of the magnet structure.

[JBL 4645]

The 2240 has its vent hole in the center of the magnet structure, the 2241 has three vent holes around the middle of the magnet structure.

I know I see where you’re going now with this! Its 2240 I have the vent is located centre to the magnet structure. Thanks for that information scott fitlin very helpfully.:)

[scott fitlin]

I know I see where you’re going now with this! Its 2240 I have the vent is located centre to the magnet structure. Thanks for that information scott fitlin very helpfully.:)Your welcome!

:)

[JBL 4645]

Your welcome!

:)

Really mate I wouldn’t have guessed that unless JBL mentioned it in the print out that I have had for several years now. It show diagram the speaker but not clear visual picture of it from the front side and rear. I’ll keep this thoughtful information up in my head now.

Also I seem to remember reading about this before but there’s a difference to deign of the speakers function?

What the name (vented gap cooling) and the other one with the three holes that has name?

I think there’s name called (VGC) vented cab cooling that’s the type I have no? and the other name??

WTF! Sorry I have this thumping ache of neck pain I’m not thinking clearly?:(

Thanks.:)

[scott fitlin]

JBL 2226 and 2241 has Vented Gap Cooling, and the 2242 has Super Vented Gap Cooling.

JBL says these innovations are more effective at keeping the voice coil cooler. As amplifier power rose, so does heat in the gap, VC burn and melt, they NEEDED a better cooling scheme as it can get really hot in the narrow gap.

I ran eight JBL 2242H woofers on a QSC Powerlight 6.0II which QSC rates as 3500wpc@2ohms, and the JBL 2242 woofers held up, and believe me, I step on the gas at times.

It does work.

So, I say, " The manufacturer likes it, So I like it too" !

:D

[JBL 4645]

JBL 2226 and 2241 has Vented Gap Cooling, and the 2242 has Super Vented Gap Cooling.

JBL says these innovations are more effective at keeping the voice coil cooler. As amplifier power rose, so does heat in the gap, VC burn and melt, they NEEDED a better cooling scheme as it can get really hot in the narrow gap.

I ran eight JBL 2242H woofers on a QSC Powerlight 6.0II which QSC rates as 3500wpc@2ohms, and the JBL 2242 woofers held up, and believe me, I step on the gas at times.

It does work.

So, I say, " The manufacturer likes it, So I like it too" !

:D

I was having some quality time with my kitten lying on my arm falling into sleep and stroking him. Yes go on! :)

Wow is that eight JBL 2242 on single amplifier or was each one powered with its own amplifier?


Stepping on the gas revving up the power I can image the sonic acoustical vibration, very nice.:applaud:

[scott fitlin]

EIGHT JBL 2242H woofers on ONE amplifier!

I have a thing for the way 2 ohm sub bass sounds. You need a HEAVY DUTY amp that can drive this low impedance, but, it makes the THUMPIEST, ROARING BOTTOM END I LOVE FOR DANCE MUSIC!

As my system is an entertainment system, I value the THUMP!

:D

[JBL 4645]

EIGHT JBL 2242H woofers on ONE amplifier!

I have a thing for the way 2 ohm sub bass sounds. You need a HEAVY DUTY amp that can drive this low impedance, but, it makes the THUMPIEST, ROARING BOTTOM END I LOVE FOR DANCE MUSIC!

As my system is an entertainment system, I value the THUMP!

:D

Morning afternoon and good evening Scott

Yes I can imagine the ampere load my RA300 I doubt they’ll be capable of running that heavy load it would worry me because of possible clipping.

So what way are the eight JBL 2242 wired (series or parallel) or a simple picture show because I like a good picture show Scott.:)

I have my surrounds wired in series with no issues like popping sounds as (fast signals peak) on the surrounds I leaned my lesson in parallel the amplifier didn’t like the loud at high volume and it induced a popping cracking sound :( and with having to ask anyone? I then switched it all-around to series.:)

I understand that the volume decreases by a few db each time you wire some so many and there can only be limit to how many speakers can be wired up in this fashion, (series I mean)?

I think only a few for parallel wiring but the level of volume increases upwards in db level. I forget which presents more of an issue whither its surrounds or sub bass arrays wired in this style?

Oh how do you solve the EQ because if one amp is driving the (whole stack) and I’ve noticed that if I placed the SPL db or microphone while moving it up or down in the same space with sine wave the tone may be at its weakest in the middle and higher at the floors lowest point and at standing head height might be at its highest level.

and so fourth with any other sub generating a tone I’d thought the best way is to power each sub then EQ each of the stacks as they lay on the floor and with the next stack on top the others and so and then once all is EQ have master final EQ to do the whole mass to smoothing it all out or is that a bit too extreme?:D

[scott fitlin]

The drivers ard wired in parallel, four woofers per channel.

Heavy duty commercial amplifiers can do this load.

The QSC 6.0II is rated to put out a maximum of 3500 watts per channel at 2 ohms, the reason I do this is its a unique sound, part of The Eldorado mystique. The rumble, roar and thump, KICKS ASS!

Is it accurate? I don't know for sure, I know its a sound I love. This way of doing sub bass is DEFINTELY visceral, ITS PHYSICAL, you know? :applaud:

As I stated previously, my system is an entertainment system voiced for dance music, and as such is part REPRODUCER, and part PRODUCER! Certain things I learned a long time ago, and are DELIBERATELY done, its no ACCIDENT!

This winter I will be returning 100% to Crown amplifiers, and 4 ohm loads, then again, who knows? I may end up deciding I like the combination of Crown and the QSC and remain this way, I will know when I get there.

As I said MY BASS IS PHYSICAL BASS! YOU FEEL THIS, like herd of Wild Mammoth running through the place.

Its PURPOSE built, and works for what Im doing!

She's a MONSTER, though!

As far as balancing out the room, besides EQ, my new crossovers, the NEW Marchands Im having made, I am having something done, three sets of sub bass outs, with three sets of output level attenuators, this will allow me to level adjust my corner subs, center subs, and J Horn subs independently of each other, seems like a nifty idea, too! After level matching is to my satisfaction, RTA the room, and EQ, and THATS how I do it!

:D

[JBL 4645]

Scott

Interesting word “The Eldorado mystique”?


I’m with you on the last paragraph of the controller for the (subs seems) simple enough to do. Kinder like my audio mixer that I use to balance the levels of the LCRS into inputs or (line inputs) (1 fronts L/R 2 Front C 3 Surrounds L/R) which is outputted to the smaller sub bass Eltax A 12-R 12”.

Line 6 I use for the LFE.1 and it’s outputted to the (JBL 4645 diy).

What SPL db level have you set it for at the listening area?

I was looking at the Crown amplifier specification ratings a few nights ago on there website as well as have play with the Crown SPL db calculator.

It said I only need 1 watt for the JBL 4645 at (2.5 meters) to the listening position and about 5 watts for the JBL control 5 LCR same (2.5 meters) only difference is the sensitivity of the loudspeakers. I think it said 3 watts for the surrounds at (1.5 meters).

Why not go Crown all the way cinemas do I mean they use all the same amplifiers which is what I’m slowly doing with the Alesis RA series I need to get RA500 soon and give that JBL 2240 a little bit more not that I'm playing it, at silly levels anymore 126dbc is a bit too much!:D:D


Amplifier Power Required
http://www.crownaudio.com/apps_htm/designtools/elect-pwr-req.htm

How Much Amplifier Power Do I Need?
http://www.crownaudio.com/amp_htm/amp_info/how_much_power.htm

[scott fitlin]

I will go all crown, but sometimes you modify plans as you go, to suit taste.

These NEW Macro Tech i series kick like MONSTERS!

The NEW crossovers, ITS an idea I have had for a while, cause I like running my amps wide open, so crossover is where I level adjust.

My room is going to have ALOT of power. According to the calculator and manufactureres specs, 38,000 watts.

My room can range from 94DB to 112 DB, peaks can reach higher! But its a smooth sound not harsh, and doesnt sound as loud as it is.

I need the power to be able to play cleanly, without overdriving BUT with the family crowd and children during afternoons I dont run as INTENSE! Matter of fact, this coming season, I am going to do Sunday afternoon Disco Classics again, lighter and more campy, appeals to the families, and just works well on a BREEZY SUNDAY AFTERNOON. Like a Sing -A- Long! and is a nice breakup, and wide range of variety in offerings.

FULL TILT BOOGIE is the NIGHTIME with the teens, young adults, the PARTY CROWD!

:D

[JBL 4645]

I will go all crown, but sometimes you modify plans as you go, to suit taste.

These NEW Macro Tech i series kick like MONSTERS!

The NEW crossovers, ITS an idea I have had for a while, cause I like running my amps wide open, so crossover is where I level adjust.

My room is going to have ALOT of power. According to the calculator and manufactureres specs, 38,000 watts.

My room can range from 94DB to 112 DB, peaks can reach higher! But its a smooth sound not harsh, and doesnt sound as loud as it is.

I need the power to be able to play cleanly, without overdriving BUT with the family crowd and children during afternoons I dont run as INTENSE! Matter of fact, this coming season, I am going to do Sunday afternoon Disco Classics again, lighter and more campy, appeals to the families, and just works well on a BREEZY SUNDAY AFTERNOON. Like a Sing -A- Long! and is a nice breakup, and wide range of variety in offerings.

FULL TILT BOOGIE is the NIGHTIME with the teens, young adults, the PARTY CROWD!

:D

LOL I think you’re compromising the price!:D Go Crown!:)


http://www.salemumch.org/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/john-travolta-saturday-night-fever.jpg

So will be dressing up like John Travolta “Dance in the night fever” LOL
:rotfl:

[timc]

I will go all crown, but sometimes you modify plans as you go, to suit taste.

These NEW Macro Tech i series kick like MONSTERS!

The NEW crossovers, ITS an idea I have had for a while, cause I like running my amps wide open, so crossover is where I level adjust.

My room is going to have ALOT of power. According to the calculator and manufactureres specs, 38,000 watts.

My room can range from 94DB to 112 DB, peaks can reach higher! But its a smooth sound not harsh, and doesnt sound as loud as it is.

I need the power to be able to play cleanly, without overdriving BUT with the family crowd and children during afternoons I dont run as INTENSE! Matter of fact, this coming season, I am going to do Sunday afternoon Disco Classics again, lighter and more campy, appeals to the families, and just works well on a BREEZY SUNDAY AFTERNOON. Like a Sing -A- Long! and is a nice breakup, and wide range of variety in offerings.

FULL TILT BOOGIE is the NIGHTIME with the teens, young adults, the PARTY CROWD!

:D


Have you done test on the new MarcroTech I series? I'm considering one for subwoofer use. I want a very tight, hard hitting articulate bass. I have tested the I-tech and found i like it very much. How would you rate it compared to the I-techs?

-Tim

[scott fitlin]

Have you done test on the new MarcroTech I series? I'm considering one for subwoofer use. I want a very tight, hard hitting articulate bass. I have tested the I-tech and found i like it very much. How would you rate it compared to the I-techs?

-TimThe Macro Tech I Series IS the I Tech without the front end DSP.

So, basically, it is the BCI ouput topology, but doesn't have the xover features, and EQ among some other features the I tech has. If you dont need the additional features the I tech has, use the Macro Tech I series.

Sonically, they produce extremely tight, fast, ferrocious, and HARD HITTING botom end! I was on the phone with Crown this afternoon, gettin tech supports reccomendation and opinion on WHICH Macro I series is the proper model for me, the 9000i is what I am getting 5 units of.

And, EVERYONE I speak to about the Macro I, and I Techs all agree, that todays music, utilizing todays recording technology, translates and reproduces the low end in todays music EXTREMELY well.

I am even switching over to current Crown amplifiers to drive my TAD 1603 fifteen inch woofers as well. Crown Rocks!

Sorry I didn't respond earlier, I was on vacation.

:)

[timc]

Thanks for good reply Scott. I actually can use the x-over in the itech so i guess a i-tech6000 is the way to go for me. Hope to afford it next year.


-Tim

[scott fitlin]

Thanks for good reply Scott. I actually can use the x-over in the itech so i guess a i-tech6000 is the way to go for me. Hope to afford it next year.


-TimHEHE, the I Tech 6000 in a home system, hope you have understanding neighbors! :applaud:

The bass in your house will kick ass, kick your houses ass, even kick the devils ass, TILL your WIFE KICKS YOUR ASS!

GREAT CHOICE for a high power amplifier, can't Argue!

:bouncy: