Some of my JBL stuff.... finally!

[Doc Mark]

Greetings, Friends,

Well, with the Living Room finally cleaned up a bit, I felt like it was way past time for me to post some photos of some of my JBL stuff. Thanks, very much, for not giving me too much grief for posting lots of drivel, with no supporting photos! Much appreciated! These photos aren't the best, but they are at least a start. Here goes:

Hummmm... can't seem to figure out how to insert text between the photos. Oh well. The first photo is of our basic system, most of it Harman/Kardon, with our wonderful L300's. I also unboxed the 4411's that I bought last week for $200. They need some new foam, but work very well, other than that.

The next two photos show those 4411's, up close. You can see that one seems to have good foam, and the other is rotted out. I supported the woofer with the missing foam when I tested it, and it sounds strong and ready to do a good job, once it's foam has been replaced. To that end, I've called Edgewound and talked to him about coming down the mountain to pay him a little visit, and have the proper job done on both woofers. Even though one seems good, it's probably best to do them both, at the same time, just to be sure they both keep working for many more years. Both enclosures are in very good shape, but could use some light sanding, and new oil, which I will do. The grills are also in very good shape, with only one small hole at the bottom of one. It's small enough that I completely missed it when I was seeing them for the first time, and trying to decide whether to buy them, or not. For $200, I think they were a very good buy, and am glad that they now live here with Sweet Bride and me!

The next photo is of our regular system, with the 4411's removed.

And, the last photo shows those old 4333 cabinets that Grumpy sent my way, along with some miscellaneous JBL goodies that will be a part of the experimentation that is yet to come. I've already stuffed the 4333's with my extra 2235H's, 2420/2307's (+2308's which are down in the Hobbit Hole), and 2405's. Even though nothing's hooked up, I love just looking at them! ;) On top of it all, you can see the rest of the goodies, including a pair of 2380A's, 2445J's, and H93 horns. I also have two Crown DC300A's, plus the Ashly XR-4001 crossover I just received from Full Compass, and all these things will be setup with our regular system, to see how we like 2-way, 3-way, and 4-way JBL systems, all electronically crossed over!! Lots to do, but now most everything is here and waiting for time to present itself!! Thanks, very much, for checking out our JBL goodies, and for waiting so long for these photos! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[JBLRaiser]

You have some great gear there. My next buy will be the L300 or 4333. Whichever I can find at a reasonable price. Just missed some 4333's in Atlanta last week for $500. I have yet to biamp my Model 19's, which should be a revelation (still fooling with SS/ tube amp/preamp combos). Then on to the three ways. You have done very well. It's been enjoyable following your journey.:applaud:

[Doc Mark]

Evening, JBLRaiser,

Thanks, very much! All this stuff has been a dream for me, since the late 1970's, and only now is it finally beginning to come together!! Has it been worth the wait? You're darned right it has!!! :bouncy::D The next thing that must be done is the work on those 4333 boxes. I have to fill a square hole that someone cut in the back of both cabinets, and then some repair work, and add some new paint. Then, I will need to make some basic boxes for my 2123H's (Thanks, Bart!), and after that, it will just be a matter of swapping goodies, and trying various crossover points, then taking notes of what sounds good to us, and what doesn't. In any case, it's already fun, and the neat thing is that I've only scratched the surface, with much more yet to come! Cool! Thanks to one and all who shared goodies with me, sold me some fine stuff at more than fair prices, and offered tons of great advice and suggestions! All such info is safely filed away, and every bit of it will be explored as things move on down the road!!

I know that you will be happy with either a nice pair of L300's, or a nice pair of 4333's, when the time is right for you to spring for them! I dearly love the big, open, effortless sound that the L300's present, and know that the 4333's will offer the same thing to you. So, whichever comes to hand first, I'm sure you will love them, as do I!!

What are your plans for the Model 19's? Are you going to keep them, once you score your JBL's? If it were me, I would do so, if you have the room for them! I remember, back when Stereo Review did some testing of them, they wrote that this speaker had been "banned in Boston", which always made me laugh when I read it!! I have both 811 and 511 horns, plus Altec 902 compression drivers, which have always sounded sweet and clear to me. A friend also gave me some old Model 19 cabinets, once, but I never did anything with them, and eventually gave them back to him. Like the L300's and 4333's, I always thought that the Model 19's had a big, open, and dynamic sound. If you like them, then I think you will LOVE the JBL's! Just my opinion, mind you, and worth exactly what you paid to read it!! ;):D I wish for you all the fun I've had in working up to my own projects, and know that you, like me, will have a great time on the journey to knowledge! It's neverending! The more we learn, the more we don't know!! Thanks, again, for you kind comments, and best of luck on your own projects. Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[pmakres1]

Doc,

What a beautiful assortment of gear you have there...I've always wanted a pair of L300's. Trouble is, with all my present gear I'd have nowhere to put them! With some refoaming those 4411's would be really sweet too.

As a Crown man from way back, I can't help but long for a peek at those two Crown DC300A's you mentioned....


Thanks for sharing the pics!

Pete

[Doc Mark]

Hi, Pete,

Thank you, very much, for the kind words! From your Avatar, it looks like you have a beloved system, too, and I'd love to see more of it!

If you look at the last photo, the one of the 4333's, you can just see one of the Crown DC300A's, with a Crown VFX-2A sitting on top of it, on the floor to the right of the screen which hides the 4333's. Both amps are there, and another one, an older DC300, is down in the Hobbit Hole. As this experiment progresses, I'll be rack-mounting the amps, crossover, and a few other goodies, and adding it to our current system. I'll take and post photos of the journey along the way.

Thanks, again, Pete, for your kind words, and please post a few photos of your own system, as you have time. Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[pmakres1]

Hi, Pete,

Thank you, very much, for the kind words! From your Avatar, it looks like you have a beloved system, too, and I'd love to see more of it!

If you look at the last photo, the one of the 4333's, you can just see one of the Crown DC300A's, with a Crown VFX-2A sitting on top of it, on the floor to the right of the screen which hides the 4333's. Both amps are there, and another one, an older DC300, is down in the Hobbit Hole. As this experiment progresses, I'll be rack-mounting the amps, crossover, and a few other goodies, and adding it to our current system. I'll take and post photos of the journey along the way.

Thanks, again, Pete, for your kind words, and please post a few photos of your own system, as you have time. Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

Hey Doc,

I'd posted some pics a few years ago, but earlier this year some upgrades were done, now that you've asked this is a good time to post a few recent ones. I actually have four systems, the main living room system (pictured here) and three smaller secondary systems. Three of the four systems use JBL speakers, all of them generally of the early eighties vintage. My main system's speakers are L220A's, with a B460 sub. All are powered by McIntosh MC501 monoblocks. It's a great combo.

Hope you enjoy!

Pete

P.S. Now that you've pointed them out, I can just barely make out the DC300A with the VFX2 network in the one photo. I have an IC150A in my office system with a Hafler DH500A. I also have an original Crown DC300 in its box, retired (at least for now).

[Doc Mark]

Good Evening, pmakres1,

WOW!!! What a fantastic system you have!!! Those huge Mac amps just exude warmth, and good sound, by looking at them! I can only imagine how great they must sound!! I can see that you like your old LP's, just like me! I have quite a few of them, some in our stereo cabinet, which I built many years ago, but even more in an old armoire that is not far from our stereo setup. Your system looks flat-out, outstanding, Sir, and I compliment you on the quality of it, in all respect! I, too, have a Soundcraftsmen AS1000, and have given thought to dusting it off and adding it to our system. How do you like it, and also the Soundcraftsmen EQ? I have given thought to finding a match to our AS1000, and still might end up doing that.

With your JBL subwoofer, I would believe that your L220A's are just cruising, most of the time, and that your main system is something that gives you much joy and pride!! I'll bet the combo of your L220A's and that B460 sub, is just about perfect, and would love to hear it sometime. Very nice, indeed. Thanks, very much, for sharing it with all of us!! And, again, congrats on a top of the line system, IMHO!! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[pmakres1]

Doc,

Thanks so much for the kind words. The system has been in the building since my high school days...that's when I built the record cabinet-around 1976. Not much of the original gear is left today, though! The SAE 5000 is about the only original piece remaining. I had a Soundcraftsmen RP2212 in those days (I still have it-it's been moved to another system). I like the AS1000, but when I got it, the microphone didn't come with it, and I've been trying to find one. I like those vintage Soundcraftsme eq's-I have one on all four of my systems, plus one spare.

The addition of the B460 to the system was a major improvement, and I built the big system center around it. The B460 does make the L220A's life much easier, much cleaner by relieving them of the lowest notes from 63hz down. It also does (as claimed) clean up the system's midrange very notably as well.The B460 is one of the best subs ever built, IMHO. I'd searched for one for many years before I began browsing ebay, when I finally snagged one in 2002. I had the 2245H driver reconed last year, so it's good for a lifetime (okay, almost) now.

If you ever plan a trip to Florida, Tampa Bay area, let me know. You'll be more than welcome to stop in for an audition!

Very best regards,

Pete

[scott fitlin]

If you ever plan a trip to Florida, Tampa Bay area, let me know. You'll be more than welcome to stop in for an audition!



PeteTampa?

Now u got me thinking about Burns Steakhouse! :D

[Doc Mark]

Hi, Pete,

You are very welcome, Sir! It's a pleasure to see a system like your's, and to learn a little more about its history. If I ever do visit the Sunshine State, I'll be sure to give you a shout, first, to see if we can meet up. Love to hear your system, in person!

Thanks, also, for your recommendation of the Soundcraftsmen EQ's. I've used one from Audio Control which, though it was a little noisy, worked quite well until recently. I have two H/K EQ8's, which also work pretty well, and both of them are more quiet than the AC was. Down in the Hobbit Hole, there's also an MXR Stereo Fifteen EQ that used to work pretty well, too. In fact, I dug it out of the HH the other day, and will hook it up again, to compare it to the EQ8. My AS-1000 came with it's original microphone, so if I ever end up visiting, I'll pack that mic along, and we can play with it, if you'd like.

Seeing you use setup your B460 has given me some new thoughts about using that one 2242HPL that I got a while back. I was going to hide it in the corner, right where those 4333's are setting, now. But, I like the idea of using it in the center, as you have done. I need to build a new stereo cabinet, anyway, so this might work out rather well. More fun ideas to consider! Thanks! And, thanks, again, for sharing your fine system! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[SMKSoundPro]

Hey Doc!

Looks great!!!

I am re-foaming the 128 woofers from a pair of 4411's that walked into my shop a few weeks ago. Can't wait to get them singin' and swingin' again. There are NOT as pretty as yours, though.

Have you had a chance to play with the Ashly 4001 yet?

Don't stop! Some will live vicariously through you and your sweet bride.

Scotty.

[pmakres1]

Tampa?

Now u got me thinking about Burns Steakhouse! :D

Scotty,

Actually, I'm across the "pond" from Tampa, in Largo. About 20 minutes from Tampa.

Pete

[pmakres1]

Hi, Pete,

You are very welcome, Sir! It's a pleasure to see a system like your's, and to learn a little more about its history. If I ever do visit the Sunshine State, I'll be sure to give you a shout, first, to see if we can meet up. Love to hear your system, in person!

Thanks, also, for your recommendation of the Soundcraftsmen EQ's. I've used one from Audio Control which, though it was a little noisy, worked quite well until recently. I have two H/K EQ8's, which also work pretty well, and both of them are more quiet than the AC was. Down in the Hobbit Hole, there's also an MXR Stereo Fifteen EQ that used to work pretty well, too. In fact, I dug it out of the HH the other day, and will hook it up again, to compare it to the EQ8. My AS-1000 came with it's original microphone, so if I ever end up visiting, I'll pack that mic along, and we can play with it, if you'd like.

Seeing you use setup your B460 has given me some new thoughts about using that one 2242HPL that I got a while back. I was going to hide it in the corner, right where those 4333's are setting, now. But, I like the idea of using it in the center, as you have done. I need to build a new stereo cabinet, anyway, so this might work out rather well. More fun ideas to consider! Thanks! And, thanks, again, for sharing your fine system! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

Somebody told me once the model number of that microphone, but I don't remember who it was and I forgot to write it down.

They say the placement of a sub is non-critical, and to some extent that is true. But, I believe in trying to place it as close to the center (between the main speakers) as is possible...especially with a front-firing sub.

I'm not really familiar with the 2242HPL....I'll have to look it up out of curiousity.

Pete

[Mr. Widget]

They say the placement of a sub is non-critical...They say a lot of things... they are almost always wrong. :D



I'm not really familiar with the 2242HPL....I'll have to look it up out of curiousity. It was developed because the 2245 can be easily overdriven in large venues. The 2242 is a real brute. They will take enormous levels of power and pound out the bass all day and night. Personally for home use or any critical music listening situation, I think there is no comparison however. The 2245 is a much more musically accurate driver.


Widget

[Doc Mark]

Morning, Pete,

That Soundcraftsmen mic is called the "Sam-II Omnidirectional Electret Microphone" Box info: "600 ohm impedance, 15' cord, full spectrum, high sensitivity". It needs a battery for power, but always seemed to work like a champ, back when I had my AS-1000 in our system. Someplace, I have a real spec sheet for it, and if you need that info, I'll see if it will come to hand.

I agree with you on subwoofer placement, actually. Maybe, if you cross them over low enough, their omnidirectional characteristics will make them hard to "locate". But, in our little sub/sat system, crossed over at 90HZ, I could easily "locate" the source of the LF info, at least in our listening room, especially when on the off-side of the room. So, I like your idea of centering the sub, and will definitely give that a try, as things progress. I may end up having to go back to corner placement for the sub, out of room/space requirements. But, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it! ;):D

The 2242H is the transducer which JBL used in their THX 4645C subwoofer system. I'm going to try and clone that design for my own 2242H, as it extends the LF down to around 22HZ +/-10 db, with no EQ, and 22HZ +/- 3 db, with external EQ. Either way, that adds to the bottom end of the L300's, and also the 4333's, so I'm eager to try it! Talk to you later, and have a great weekend of music, through that wonderful system of your's!! God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[Doc Mark]

Hey, Widget,

Darn it!! You HAD to say that, didn't you??!!!?!! ;);):) Now, I'll have to trade my single 2242H for a nice 2245H!!! ;):D Thanks, very much, for that info, Mr. Widget. I have nothing with which to compare that 2242H, but look forward to getting into some experimentation with it, just for grins. In any case, once I build a 4645C clone, the same cabinet can be used for a 2245H, should I decide that's what works best, eh?! Cool! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[4313B]

They say the placement of a sub is non-criticalWhatever!

[Mr. Widget]

Whatever!Wouldn't, "where ever" be more like it? :D


Widget

[scott fitlin]

Scotty,

Actually, I'm across the "pond" from Tampa, in Largo. About 20 minutes from Tampa.

PeteThe pond with that awesome looking bridge, the one that from a distance looks razor thin?

:)

[Ducatista47]

It was developed because the 2245 can be easily overdriven in large venues. The 2242 is a real brute. They will take enormous levels of power and pound out the bass all day and night. Personally for home use or any critical music listening situation, I think there is no comparison however. The 2245 is a much more musically accurate driver.
Widget
Indeed. This is where much of the supply of 2245 cores comes from. I have a pair that a Canadian disco burned up three times. This despite recones of aftermarket kits with waffle surrounds - but apparently unimproved voice coils. Anything that puts more 2245H's into our hands isn't all bad. They were presumably replaced with 2242's or God forbid Yamahas or some such crud. But in a disco who cares?

I am still waiting for reasonable prices to seize the recone kits. I am not holding my breath. It is my hope that they might become available with the new type surrounds. This is after all a current model.

Clark

[Doc Mark]

Whatever!

Hey, 4313B,

I liked your original comment much better!!! ;):D:applaud: I was laughing for a good 30 minutes after reading what you wrote!! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[Doc Mark]

Hey Doc!

Looks great!!!

I am re-foaming the 128 woofers from a pair of 4411's that walked into my shop a few weeks ago. Can't wait to get them singin' and swingin' again. There are NOT as pretty as yours, though.

Have you had a chance to play with the Ashly 4001 yet?

Don't stop! Some will live vicariously through you and your sweet bride.

Scotty.

Hey, Scotty,

I look forward to reading your report on those 4411's, once you get them refoamed, and ready to go! I still cannot get my 128H's out of the enclosures, but will keep on trying. Worse comes to worse, I may have to take both enclosures down to Edgewound, and let him blow the woofers out of there with a couple thousand watts of power!! :blink:;)

Haven't fired up the 4001 just yet, as we're in the middle of quite a bit of work right now. Plus, I need some proper cables, some safety caps for the drivers in question, and some cabinet work on the 4333's, before I reallay get into the "playing". Plus, I need to build some boxes for the 2123H's, too, and something for the 2445J's. So, lots to do before Mr. Ashly comes out to play! But, I DID consider setting a pair of 2380A's + 2445J's on top of the L300's, to see how that might sound, bi-amped! In any case, lots of fun in the offing!! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

P.S. Thank you, Scotty, for your nice comment on Sweet Bride and me, and our life together! We truly feel blessed to be together, and as a result, our life is full, fulfilling, and fun, most of the time!!

[Mr. Widget]

So, then it's also safe to say that ALL homes, furnshings, refridgerators, ovens, stoves, and audio gear in ALL peoples homes are also of THE UTMOST QUALITY?Seems a nerve was touched upon. :D

I think what he meant was that different venues have different requirements.

A pair of Magico Minis would be wonderful in a smallish apartment yet would merely be an expensive fuse at the Eldorado.


Widget

[pmakres1]

Hey, 4313B,

I liked you original comment much better!!! ;):D:applaud: I was laughing for a good 30 minutes after reading what you wrote!! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

I was out a good part of the day so I must have missed the "original" comment...may be just as well? In any case, as I said I never agreed with the "non-critical" placement premise. And as Mr. Widget aptly pointed out..."they" are very often wrong!

Whatever! :D

Pete

[pmakres1]

The pond with that awesome looking bridge, the one that from a distance looks razor thin?

:)

That's the one! There are several bridges that span the bay...the once- thin Howard Frankland bridge, the Gandy Bridge, and Courtney Campbell Causeway all span from the Clearwater-Largo side to the Tampa side. They're all pretty awesome....then there is the Sunshine Skyway, connecting St. Petersburg with cities to the south, which beats them all.

Pete

P.S. BTW Scott, if you are ever in the area, the same invitation applies to you!

[scott fitlin]

Seems a nerve was touched upon. :D

I think what he meant was that different venues have different requirements.

A pair of Magico Minis would be wonderful in a smallish apartment yet would merely be an expensive fuse at the Eldorado.


WidgetYES, and I agree with you Widget, I really do.

But generalizations that dismiss an entire domain, without knowing the entire spectrum of information, that will RAZZ my temper.

I understand more than many why someone such as yourself listens to what they do, and what your criteria is. The fact that my criteria is different from yours doesn't make you less, or more, just makes you YOU and ME SCOTT!

For years people in the HOI POLOI AUDIO CIRCLES sneer at the sheer mention of disco/dance, but had they or have they, ever heard the EPITOME of the ART?

I know it's obvious I take mine seriously, as do you, yours, and I respect that, not belittle it.

BEFORE a person dismisses an entire genre as RUBBISH, a person should have all the facts.

THIS world has been gifted some great, incredible music, that nevedr would hae sen the light of day, had i NOT been for dance clubs with INCREDIBLE DJ,s and SOUND SYSTEMS like Larry Levan at THE PARADISE GARAGE NYC!

I take more than a bit of pride in my system, and my music, and ITS NOT JUST DISCO CRAP!

I take as much pride in my room, as U do in your SUPERLATIVE woodwork and Cabinet Building.

THAT'S the NERVE that got plucked!

And whenever I am lumped into a generalization as being a JUNKJOINT, I will STAND UP, AND LET THEM KNOW!

:coolness:

[scott fitlin]

AND I adore when I get one of the AUDIO HOI POLOI SNICKATEERS, and they are listening, looking, no studying the speakers and amps, come up and say, BUT, BUT, BUT! tHEY ALWAYS TOLD ME THAT jbl.......

YEAH, yeah, and yeah!

[scott fitlin]

That's the one! There are several bridges that span the bay...the once- thin Howard Frankland bridge, the Gandy Bridge, and Courtney Campbell Causeway all span from the Clearwater-Largo side to the Tampa side. They're all pretty awesome....then there is the Sunshine Skyway, connecting St. Petersburg with cities to the south, which beats them all.

Pete

P.S. BTW Scott, if you are ever in the area, the same invitation applies to you!That is the ONE, SUNSHINE SKYWAY, what a veiw from a distance, WOW, I was actually scared to drive it on a the approach, till u get up on it, and its just an illusion from a distance.

When and IF I get down to Fl, you and I have a reservation at Burns Steakhouse, OH THE DESSERT ROOM. :bouncy:

[pmakres1]

That is the ONE, SUNSHINE SKYWAY, what a veiw from a distance, WOW, I was actually scared to drive it on a the approach, till u get up on it, and its just an illusion from a distance.

When and IF I get down to Fl, you and I have a reservation at Burns Steakhouse, OH THE DESSERT ROOM. :bouncy:

Okay Scott!

Yep, the Sunshine Skyway is a beauty indeed. I don't know when you last saw it, before or after the "new" Skyway was built. (opened 1987). The new bridge was built following the collapse in 1980 of one of the old spans after a freighter rammed it.

I was working on Sarasota at the time the new bridge was nearing completion...It was very cool to watch the building of it...I drove across it the day it opened.

Don't think I've ever been to Burns...sounds like a treat!

Pete

[Doc Mark]

Hey, ScottyJ,

This has been a fun, interesting, and educational thread! I very much appreciate that folks form differing points of view have jumped in to toss in their two cents! I've already learned something, and that is that the learning never stops, period!! :thmbsup:

Since I already have it in hand, and since I got it for a very good price, you may rest assured that I WILL be giving my 2242H a try!! It may very well do exactly what I want it to do, and in that case, I'm going to be thrilled!! At some time in the future, either near or far, I'd also like to test out a 2245H, just to see what the difference actually is. I'm excited about the possibilities, I must tell you!! :D:applaud: I also appreciate the fact that you let me know just how keen you are on the 2242H's! Hearing everyone's point of view is what makes this forum so much better than myriad others that are out there in cyberland!! Since I'm already VERY happy with the L300's, I think that both the 2242H and the 2245H would do a good job of filling in just a tad more bottom end for the L300's.

So, hey, no matter which one works for me, I KNOW I'm going to be a Happy Camper!! In truth, I very much hope it's the 2242H, as I already own it, and I love telling folks how little I paid for it! So, if it is the "dog's bollocks", as my UK friends like to say, I'll be happier than a pig in poo!!! ;):D:bouncy:

Thanks, again, for you enthusiasm, and for apprising me of just how much you like the 2242H, not to mention the 4411's! Much appreciated!

Same for you other Gents, too! I love reading everyone's thoughts and suggestions, and hey, if none of us ever met, or got to hang out with someone who knew more than ourselves, the old world would be a pretty poor place, indeed!! ;) Thanks to all, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc (Just call me "Senor Sponge", as I'm soaking up all this collective JBL wisdom on a regular basis around here!!!);):D

[scott fitlin]

It was in the ealy 90,s, around `93.

Burns is as much of a treat as a good JBL system at freinds homes, with company and like minded people.

Its an evening, not just dinner, the decor is or was last i was there is dark wood with that old fashioned deep red velvet style wallpaper, in the lobby and bar area, gives it that old west kind of feel. Then, when they take you to your table, the walk thru the kitchens, prep areas, the story of burns, the meat being raised to thei specifications and all hat! At your table, the food is JUST outstanding, the steak really is THAT good, whatever kind you order, ITS GREAT STEAK!

Then, after dinner, the walk back thru the kitchen, only this time you go through a different door than the one you originally came in through, and your in " THE DESSERT ROOM "! You enter this big room, there's yet another Maitre d at their podium, and your taken to your seating place. But what it is, the booths are all built like giant wine or bourbon casks, REALLY BIG comfortable cask style booths. Inside your booth, each one, and theres many, is equipped with its own ENTERTAINMENT system, video, music, select what you like, phone so you can talk with freinds in other booths if a LARGE GROUP, and THE DESSERTS ARE PHENOMENAL. They maintain an EXTENSIVE SUPER DELUXE Menu of Cognacs, Singlemalt Scotches, Apertif,s, wines, I mean extensive, and VAST.

It,s one of those places, thats beyond just the food being awesome, ITS A FUN EVENING with a few fun people, I always enjoy Burns. It,s not stuffy, stuck up or staunch, IT'S SUCH A FUN EVENING!

Thats Burns!

:bouncy:
Okay Scott!

Yep, the Sunshine Skyway is a beauty indeed. I don't know when you last saw it, before or after the "new" Skyway was built. (opened 1987). The new bridge was built following the collapse in 1980 of one of the old spans after a freighter rammed it.

I was working on Sarasota at the time the new bridge was nearing completion...It was very cool to watch the building of it...I drove across it the day it opened.

Don't think I've ever been to Burns...sounds like a treat!

Pete

[Doc Mark]

Hello, Friends,

I just had a fun thought! Ever since I joined up here at LH, I've raved about the L300's. After we actually got a nice pair for ourselves (Thanks, Regis!), I have gotten even worse in my ravings!! I do LOVE those speakers, yes I do!!

However, make no mistake about it: I am fully aware that at least some of our members may probably read my words of praise for the L300's, and shake their heads in wise disagreement and maybe even dismay. You see, they "know" all about the dispersion problems with the L300's; 'cause they "know" that a 15" woofer really doesn't do that well at the 800HZ crossover point; and they also "know" that the 2312 horn/2308 lense also falls short in dispersion, ultimately; and they "know" that most such systems would benefit from adding a 10" midbass transducer, like the 2123H's I got from Bart (Thanks, Bart!)!! So, those who "know", probably think I'm a "know-nothing Audio Phillistine"!!

Truth be told, none of that matters a big rat's frosty crank to me!!! ;);):D:D Even though I, too, "know" their reasons for thinking the way they do about my beloved L300's, I still LOVE THEM, and very much LOVE the way they reproduce the music to which I listen!!! They are, indeed, my "dream speaker", and at long last we actually own a pair for ourselves!! Sweet Bride loves them, too, and can easily hear the positive difference they offer to our listening. And, she is also very happy "because I'M happy", and that is just another of the very special things about her that I dearly love!!

So, others can have their opinions about our L300's, and they don't have to think as highly of them as do we. You see, WE'RE the ones that have to be satisfied with them, and not anyone else!! Your system is another great case in point, ScottyJ!! As long as YOU love it, and as long as it continues to do what you want it to do, it's the perfect system, as far as I'm concerned!! I'd love to hear it someday!! Takes a lot of different horses to make up a good race, eh??!!??!! ;):applaud: Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc ("They can have our beloved L300's, when they pry them from our cold, dead.... EARS"!!!!):bouncy::bouncy:

[Ducatista47]

Whoa, Scotty.

I was talking about the disco experience around here. A particular place, in fact, called American Pi, which I consider a complete toilet. Socially and musically. Such is the life of a designated driver. Being the only sober one in the room with two 18 inch Yamaha sub boxes blasting out one note bass on the dance floor.

I never considered Eldorado a disco - who's dancing? - but rather an establishment where people come to ride great bumper cars and find that a world class sound system comes along with the experience.

I consider myself pretty thin skinned. If misery loves company, I suppose I should feel better. Instead I will apologize for making you think I was putting your system down.

For the record, having spent hundreds, no thousands of hours in bar and other discos as a sober designated driver, I can safely tell you that with alcohol added to the experience no one could give a rat's rear end about the sound other than the volume. There is a reason why people shouldn't evaluate a system after five beers. They can't tell the difference. Go listen to hundreds of nights in crappy discos playing crappy music to disgusting drunks trying to pick each other up and then you can tell me I'm wrong. But man, I just wasn't talking about your operation.

As for discos, some owners care about the sound and can actually tell the difference. I personally think possessing both qualities is not encountered as frequently as we would like.

Doc, sorry to have upset your thread. My apologies to you as well.

Clark

[scott fitlin]

Hey, ScottyJ,

This has been a fun, interesting, and educational thread! I very much appreciate that folks form differing points of view have jumped in to toss in their two cents! I've already learned something, and that is that the learning never stops, period!! :thmbsup:

Since I already have it in hand, and since I got it for a very good price, you may rest assured that I WILL be giving my 2242H a try!! It may very well do exactly what I want it to do, and in that case, I'm going to be thrilled!! At some time in the future, either near or far, I'd also like to test out a 2245H, just to see what the difference actually is. I'm excited about the possibilities, I must tell you!! :D:applaud: I also appreciate the fact that you let me know just how keen you are on the 2242H's! Hearing everyone's point of view is what makes this forum so much better than myriad others that are out there in cyberland!! Since I'm already VERY happy with the L300's, I think that both the 2242H and the 2245H would do a good job of filling in just a tad more bottom end for the L300's.

So, hey, no matter which one works for me, I KNOW I'm going to be a Happy Camper!! In truth, I very much hope it's the 2242H, as I already own it, and I love telling folks how little I paid for it! So, if it is the "dog's bollocks", as my UK friends like to say, I'll be happier than a pig in poo!!! ;):D:bouncy:

Thanks, again, for you enthusiasm, and for apprising me of just how much you like the 2242H, not to mention the 4411's! Much appreciated!

Same for you other Gents, too! I love reading everyone's thoughts and suggestions, and hey, if none of us ever met, or got to hang out with someone who knew more than ourselves, the old world would be a pretty poor place, indeed!! ;) Thanks to all, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc (Just call me "Senor Sponge", as I'm soaking up all this collective JBL wisdom on a regular basis around here!!!);):DI, umm, I get a bit spirited about audio.

However, to all, lt me say, I in no way, mean to say to anyone what I do is right and you are wrong. Quite the contrary, everone has their own taste, and for sure, there are so many differin applications, and no 1 general purpose speaker/system that does it all, for all applications.

JBL has Tour/Concert systems, Movie Theater Systems, Dedicated dance Club Systems, Studio Monitors, Dedicated High End Playback systems, as well as Venue/PA Systems,and even iPod and portable systems, and components.

Tour/concert doesnt sound like their Theater Systems, and their Theater systems do not sound like their Dance club systems.

There's alot of applications, and each has differing needs and requirements.

I just get miffed a bit, when a genre is labeled, or mislabeled. Just as guys here who have quite the JBL systems in their homes, who have invested countless hours of research, tweak and development, and money get when someone at the XYZ speaker forum automatically dismisses your JBL is RUBBISH even though they may have NEVER even heard a JBL system, especiallyone thats done right.

I, personally, the time spent in getting it back, and not to mention the money I have tied up in gear, this, that, and whatever. so, I am as much wrapped up and INTO what I do, and have, as any of YOU guys, thats all that is.

Now, music has changed, dramatically, however, music is getting really good, I mean really. And this past winter, when I started doing certain things, and I couldn't beleive the results i was getting, I found new spirit, and I found alot of this spirit right where I ALWAYS HAD IN THE PAST, JBL!

My system uses some new some vintage, and some thinking beyoind into the future. And it came out SPECTACULAR!

I have a friend, he likes Klipsh La Scalas. To me, they are ok, efficient, need only a few watts, killer dynamics in some ranges, not so great to me in others. But he likes them, I don't trash him for it.

But, by and large, I have found NEW and RENEWED love for JBL, and I don't CARE WHAT ANYONE SAYS, WHICHEVER JBL,S YOU USE, setup properly, it has a sound ONLY JBL has, and WHAT A SOUND IT IS!

Also, I no longer play records, and the setup and voicing to get the best from digital medias, especially the downloading revolution, is VASTLY different from what we did back in the Vinyl record days.

Sincerely, I CANNOT begin to say how good it can get, if your willing to be a bit open minded and start learning again, and begin doing. I THINK the NEW age of learning has been the part thats the most fun for me, takes me to a state of mind, the same one, when we were inventing DANCE SOUND and had something special then! Its an age of invention, once again. IT's BEEN THAT GOOD FOR ME! AND ITS BEEN JBL, AGAIN, AS WELL!

Anyway, were still all JBL heads, thats the thing anyway!

:D

[Doc Mark]

Hey, Scotty and Clark,

Scotty, great comment, and dead on the money, me thinks! I love the fact that you are so enthusiastic about what you do! A true zest for life is a rare gift, and should be enjoyed to it's fullest!

Clark, hey, no apology needed, my Friend! It's been a fun ride to see where this thread has gone! From here to there, and back again..... hummm, sounds like a Hobbit's Tale, sort'a,;):D don't it!?!! In any case, it's been fun, entertaining, and very educational. What's not to like? Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[scott fitlin]

Whoa, Scotty.

I was talking about the disco experience around here. A particular place, in fact, called American Pi, which I consider a complete toilet. Socially and musically. Such is the life of a designated driver. Being the only sober one in the room with two 18 inch Yamaha sub boxes blasting out one note bass on the dance floor.

I never considered Eldorado a disco - who's dancing? - but rather an establishment where people come to ride great bumper cars and find that a world class sound system comes along with the experience.

I consider myself pretty thin skinned. If misery loves company, I suppose I should feel better. Instead I will apologize for making you think I was putting your system down.

For the record, having spent hundreds, no thousands of hours in bar and other discos as a sober designated driver, I can safely tell you that with alcohol added to the experience no one could give a rat's rear end about the sound other than the volume. There is a reason why people shouldn't evaluate a system after five beers. They can't tell the difference. Go listen to hundreds of nights in crappy discos playing crappy music to disgusting drunks trying to pick each other up and then you can tell me I'm wrong. But man, I just wasn't talking about your operation.

Doc, sorry to have upset your thread. My apologies to you as well.

ClarkNo, not to worry, ITS ALL GOOD, I think Ill go remove my post, what can I say.

I know pople all think no one can hear the difference, no one has been givin g them a room with which they can hear the difference. BUT when ONE does come al,ong, THE PEOPLE absolutely do hear the difference, and will go to that club RELIGIOUSLY.

In the meantime, people still have to go out and have fun, they deal with what they have available.

In my place, I have teens and 20somethings that come on Friday and Saturday nights, TO ride the cars yes, BUT to hear my music on THIS SYSTEM. Imagine, Clark, 4 20yr olds, spening $125, $150 riding bumper cars for an hour to hour and a 1/2?

Originally it was 50cents, and 25cents to reride, and these kids, and some adults, they come, and spend money to listen to my system, and what I am playing. At first, they ask what mixed CD is this? My operator tells em no CD, HE'S playing music! GET OUTTA HERE he is old enough to be my father! And I look over, well miss, when exactly do you think Disco was invented? OMG he heard me! I smile, they watch and listen to me m ix the next song or track and their jaws hit the floor. I eat it up. They say OMG YOUR AMAZING, I just say no, I have a great crowd to entertain, YOUR AMAZING, and THANK YOU, your compliments are wonderful to hear! She asks, U have CD,s to sell? Oh, and BTW, I am about 20ft away, with the system pumping.

And they come week in, and week out! And sometimes I am at a loss of words to explain it myself!

Then I get the people around MY age, I'm 46, what kind of music is this? WOW, IT SOUNDS GREAT. I don't like this stuff, it what my son listens to, but its different in here, YOU MAKE CD,s?

THERE is an artform, done right, with a certain type of sound, that sounds like nothing in this world,IMO, and the artform transcends just playing pre-recorded music, you begin diaLOGUING WITH YOUR AUDIENCE THROGUH THE MUSIC, TELLING A TALE, WEAVING A TAPESTRY IN TONAL COLORS, TAKING JOURNEYS AROUND THE MUSICAL WORLD, AND THEY FEEL WHAT I FEEL, CAUSE THEY KEEP COMING BACK.


In order to make this MUSICAL STEW, YOU MUST HAVE JBL! YOU MUST!

Thats my story, :bouncy:

[johnaec]

No, not to worry, ITS ALL GOOD, I think Ill go remove my post, what can I say.NO, SCOTTY! PLEASE don't remove any of your posts!!! I find them interesting eneough to often go back and re-read them, which is really nice to be able to do, unlike some members who will put up an intelligent discourse, only to erase it on a whim later - ARGGHHH!!!!! I HATE it when this happens!!

If something is posted, PLEASE leave it up!! It's really unfair to pull something down after only some have been able to read it!

Thank you!

John

[Doc Mark]

Hey, Scotty,

I agree with John, 100%!! Please leave your stuff right where it is! Like John, I many times go back and reread the interesting stuff, and most of the time, learn something that I missed the first time around!! So, please leave our discourse exactly as it is now. Great stuff, and just the sort of thing that I'll enjoy many times over, as time passes!! Thanks a ton for contributing your thoughts and sharing your experience with me, and everyone else here at LH! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[4313B]

Truth be told, none of that matters a big rat's frosty crank to me!!!In the early days of the forum we endeavored to offer the best possible answers to questions posed with respect to Altec and JBL systems and transducers. After all, it was the Lansing Heritage website.

Over the years as the site morphed into just another audio website we've become aware of the fact that alot of people don't give a big rat's frosty crank. We are quite aware of what the website used to be and what it is now.

Carry on as you see fit and certainly feel free to live in whatever Altec or JBL era you personally prefer. Try to understand that posts lauding praise over 30 year old loudspeaker systems, especially at the expense of newer systems, can potentially be insulting to the engineers who personally feel that they've progessed in talent, skill and expertise as the years have gone by. Fortunately they never got stuck in any particular era. :)

[scott fitlin]

Oh John, Im sorry, I was being a bit ornery, I only pulled that one post down, everything else remains.

Tell you waht though, from here on out, I WONT do that anymore.

But, the last post of mine, read that, especially the last big paragraph, if you can understand it, and make sense of it, THAT IS THE ESSENCE OF HOW I PLAY MUSIC!

:bouncy:

[scott fitlin]

NO, SCOTTY! PLEASE don't remove any of your posts!!! I find them interesting eneough to often go back and re-read them, which is really nice to be able to do,

Thank you!

JohnREALLY? WOW, I'm flattererd!

WOW thats really awesomne to hear.

I promise, I'll never pull em down again!

Thank you very much John, that means alot to me.

:bouncy:

[pmakres1]

It was in the ealy 90,s, around `93.

Burns is as much of a treat as a good JBL system at freinds homes, with company and like minded people.

Its an evening, not just dinner, the decor is or was last i was there is dark wood with that old fashioned deep red velvet style wallpaper, in the lobby and bar area, gives it that old west kind of feel. Then, when they take you to your table, the walk thru the kitchens, prep areas, the story of burns, the meat being raised to thei specifications and all hat! At your table, the food is JUST outstanding, the steak really is THAT good, whatever kind you order, ITS GREAT STEAK!

Then, after dinner, the walk back thru the kitchen, only this time you go through a different door than the one you originally came in through, and your in " THE DESSERT ROOM "! You enter this big room, there's yet another Maitre d at their podium, and your taken to your seating place. But what it is, the booths are all built like giant wine or bourbon casks, REALLY BIG comfortable cask style booths. Inside your booth, each one, and theres many, is equipped with its own ENTERTAINMENT system, video, music, select what you like, phone so you can talk with freinds in other booths if a LARGE GROUP, and THE DESSERTS ARE PHENOMENAL. They maintain an EXTENSIVE SUPER DELUXE Menu of Cognacs, Singlemalt Scotches, Apertif,s, wines, I mean extensive, and VAST.

It,s one of those places, thats beyond just the food being awesome, ITS A FUN EVENING with a few fun people, I always enjoy Burns. It,s not stuffy, stuck up or staunch, IT'S SUCH A FUN EVENING!

Thats Burns!

:bouncy:

Scott,

This really sounds like a lot of fun...I know I've heard the name before, I've just never been there. You've got me interested...I mean what could be better than each booth having its own entertainment system? (any JBL? :bouncy:)

Pete

[scott fitlin]

Scott,

This really sounds like a lot of fun...I know I've heard the name before, I've just never been there. You've got me interested...I mean what could be better than each booth having its own entertainment system? (any JBL? :bouncy:)

PeteThat dessert room was an idea for a club I had at one time, the dessert I wanted to serve..............

WHOA!

When I get diown to Fl, I gotaa go see dad in Austin, Im doing Thanksgiving, again, Austin, Im going to Dominican repeublic for a bitty vacation this winter, and I gotta find a week to do Florida, EVERYTHING from South Miami, to Florida Beach, to Tampa, Oh man packed schedule!

But seriously, Burns is GREAT!

:bouncy:

[Doc Mark]

In the early days of the forum we endeavored to offer the best possible answers to questions posed with respect to Altec and JBL systems and transducers. After all, it was the Lansing Heritage website.

Over the years as the site morphed into just another audio website we've become aware of the fact that alot of people don't give a big rat's frosty crank. We are quite aware of what the website used to be and what it is now.

Carry on as you see fit and certainly feel free to live in whatever Altec or JBL era you personally prefer. Try to understand that posts lauding praise over 30 year old loudspeaker systems, especially at the expense of newer systems, can potentially be insulting to the engineers who personally feel that they've progessed in talent, skill and expertise as the years have gone by. Fortunately they never got stuck in any particular era. :)

Good Evening, 4313B, and All,

Gosh, I hope you didn't take my comment as an insult to those fine engineers who continue to design the very best transducers and systems that they possibly can! Nothing could be further from the truth, Sir! Without such talented and dedicated folks, I wouldn't have my L300's, as they would never have been created! And, I'm absolutely aware of the fact that their design is very dated, and that there are other, newer systems, that leave my L300's far behind in all aspects of sound reproduction. The part that doesn't bother me a bit, is that some others might not like my choice of the L300's for themselves. That was all I meant by my comments, which I had thought would give everyone a grin due to the specific phrase chosen to illustrate my point! :) Guess I struck out on the humor, eh?!! :o:;)

I know that, speaking for myself, a huge part of why I love JBL, and especially their older flagship speaker systems, has to do with sentimentality!! I went on the road, as a young musician, for the first time in 1969, and we had some JBL goodies in our systems of the day. I was very impressed by their sound, their reliability, and their performance in the field. Later, when I heard my first JBL home systems, I was similarly impressed. Enough so, that now, almost 40 years later, I still revere and love those old L300's, even though I've only recently been able to afford a pair of them!! ;) Knowing the facts about their out-dated and obsolete design parameters doesn't change my love of them, one whit. Again, that was my point, completely, and I doesn't matter to me that others may see them as old, antiquated, and sorry sad sisters compared to today's newer crop of systems. And, I still feel that way. NO slam of speaker designers, JBL or otherwise, was intended, Good Sir, and please accept my sincere apology if my comments came off that way.

As a further illustrative thought, I've never liked the sound of Cerwin Vega products. They have always sounded shrill, over-bearing, and harsh to my ears. However, I have friends that dearly LOVE their CV's! I would never try to tell them that their beloved speakers are less than perfect for them, even though I wouldn't own them on a bet. As long as they like them, that's all that matters. My love of our classy L300's is the same thing, my Friend. It's OK that others might not like them, just as it's OK for myself and Sweet Bride to think they are the cat's meow!! :D:applaud:

My hat is off to all those that designed such systems, back when I was a kid, and also to those that still do so!! I still believe that men like Neville Thiele, Don B. Keele, James B. Lansing, Paul Klipsch, and others, are to be honored and revered for their work in speaker design! I spent some time with Mark Gander, once, at a NAMM show, and found him to be of special mettle, as well! God Bless all of them for their talents and contributions to reproducing music!! I hope this has helped you to understand that NO disrespect was intended, to anyone. Thanks for letting me know your feelings on the subject, however. I, for one, consider this forum to be well above being "just another audio website", and look forward to reading what knowledgeable folks like you, and many others here at LH, have to say on things JBL! Please continue to do so, my Friend. Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc (who sometimes trips on his own enthusiasm for life..... and for JBL!) [To quote the famous drummer/philosopher, Ringo Starr: "I'm just glad to be here"!!!] ;):D

[Titanium Dome]

Now, music has changed, dramatically, however, music is getting really good, I mean really. And this past winter, when I started doing certain things, and I couldn't beleive the results i was getting, I found new spirit, and I found alot of this spirit right where I ALWAYS HAD IN THE PAST, JBL!

My system uses some new some vintage, and some thinking beyoind into the future. And it came out SPECTACULAR!


But, by and large, I have found NEW and RENEWED love for JBL, and I don't CARE WHAT ANYONE SAYS, WHICHEVER JBL,S YOU USE, setup properly, it has a sound ONLY JBL has, and WHAT A SOUND IT IS!

Also, I no longer play records, and the setup and voicing to get the best from digital medias, especially the downloading revolution, is VASTLY different from what we did back in the Vinyl record days.

Sincerely, I CANNOT begin to say how good it can get, if your willing to be a bit open minded and start learning again, and begin doing. I THINK the NEW age of learning has been the part thats the most fun for me, takes me to a state of mind, the same one, when we were inventing DANCE SOUND and had something special then! Its an age of invention, once again. IT's BEEN THAT GOOD FOR ME! AND ITS BEEN JBL, AGAIN, AS WELL!

Anyway, were still all JBL heads, thats the thing anyway!

:D

Scotty, are you channeling the ol' T'Dome again? Or you been secretly reading my posts over at trance-mix? Well, good on ya if you are, though it's obvious you can make up your own mind without picking this six-decade-old brain. :yes:

I have never heard better music than I'm hearing today, and never on better systems, either. When I load in those Hi-rez files and mixes and push play, it's like living in another world--a world that's open, endless, powerful, alive.

You and I don't have the same kind of gear; we don't have the same kind of listening places; but we do have JBL in our veins and brains, and we believe in today as much as yesterday, maybe even a little more when it comes to JBL's products and the music that's available to play on them

Now, I'm not talking about the kind of stinky dog-shit-that-sticks-to-your-shoe music coming out of most music labels these days that is under-talented, derivative, over-produced, and compressed to an ear-wilting screech on a friggin' CD. I'm talking about those monster files that you can get from talented, music-crazy artists who are putting their lives into the music, learning how to master instruments normal and abnormal, recording that riff 75 times until they get the right fit for the mix, then carrying their TTs and synths and laptops from bar to bar and rathole to rathole and club to club, eventually into warehouses and barns and hangars. And all the while believing in their music and filled with optimism that it will be heard and that it will mean something when it is.

Whether I'm in the garage listening to those Northridge E50s (that I very carefully set up for two days before finding the right spot), or in the music room with the SVA surround system (which took two weeks to get right, including using a laptop to reconfigure the settings on the venerable Citation 5.0) or in the HT with the Performance Series (two easy days for the PT800s and PC600, one week for the PS1400s and HTPS400s, and month of swapping amps and adjusting the FAP-T1, comparing the DACs and Op Amps of the source vs. pre/pro), when it all comes together, it's the best ever.

Compared to what you do, Scotty, it's not much, but compared to my buddies with big-name, expensive, boutique systems, it's a source of extreme humiliation for all of them. "Why doesn't my system sound this good?" they ask.

A. Because your system as it's deployed isn't as good, even though it cost more. (and it'll never be JBL)
B. The music you're playing is produced in a way that it sounds like crap on your system. (sounds OK on a mini-system, though :p )

I'm taking a long, hard look at the Array Series. I know it's better than what I got, and of course we all know who designed them. Time keeps on slippin', slippin', slippin', into the future...

[Titanium Dome]

I just want to know what a big rat's frosty crank is. :confused: :D

[JBLRaiser]

In the early days of the forum we endeavored to offer the best possible answers to questions posed with respect to Altec and JBL systems and transducers. After all, it was the Lansing Heritage website.

Over the years as the site morphed into just another audio website we've become aware of the fact that alot of people don't give a big rat's frosty crank. We are quite aware of what the website used to be and what it is now.

Carry on as you see fit and certainly feel free to live in whatever Altec or JBL era you personally prefer. Try to understand that posts lauding praise over 30 year old loudspeaker systems, especially at the expense of newer systems, can potentially be insulting to the engineers who personally feel that they've progessed in talent, skill and expertise as the years have gone by. Fortunately they never got stuck in any particular era. :)


The prices have progressed to the point that TOTL are out of reach for most people. So we learn to enjoy what is affordable and still part of the Heritage. Doc loves his L300's and doesn't need a second opinion on how good they sound. And as far as potentially insulting the engineers, they are big boys and don't need our validation.

[Doc Mark]

I just want to know what a big rat's frosty crank is. :confused: :D

Hey, T'Dome,

You cracked me up with that one, Mate!! :D:D Years ago, back when Sweet Bride and I lived down in San Diego, one TV station had a local sportscaster named Ted Leightner. He used to use that phrase when he was cranked about something, and no matter how many times I heard it, I was always driven into riotous laughter, every single time he said it!! :D:D Now, many years later, I say it when I am making an important point! Most folks have never heard it before, and so I get a laugh, now and then. Glad you liked it, and sorry that others might have taken it as an affront. I'm smiling, even as I type this, because even today, I can still see Ted's face when he used to say that same phrase!! DAMN, that was funny!!! :D:D Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[4313B]

And as far as potentially insulting the engineers, they are big boys and don't need our validation.You don't know the half of it so lets just drop it. It's a real sore spot and only serves to stir bad feelings up again.

[Doc Mark]

The prices have progressed to the point that TOTL are out of reach for most people. So we learn to enjoy what is affordable and still part of the Heritage. Doc loves his L300's and doesn't need a second opinion on how good they sound. And as far as potentially insulting the engineers, they are big boys and don't need our validation.

Evening, JBLRaiser,

Thanks, very much, for your insightful comments, my Friend! You hit the old nail square on the head, and I had considered mentioning the very same thing in my earlier comments. In truth, spending around $2,000 for a pair of speakers is a stretch for us, but spending $10-20,000 for a newer and better system is absolutely out of the question!! I very much appreciate that newer systems eclipse our cherished L300's, but that has no bearing on my love and devotion to them, at all!! They are what I have wanted for almost 40 years, and they came to us for a price that, while still fairly high, was at least within our means. Thank God In Heaven I'm married to a woman who "understands", and who said, "Go for it, my Sweet", when I asked if we could pull some coin out of the bank, that day up on Palmdale, when Regis' L300's became OUR L300's!!!!! Oh, yeah..... life is goooooooood!!!! Thanks for completely "understanding", JBLRaiser! ;):D:applaud: Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[John]

That is the ONE, SUNSHINE SKYWAY, what a veiw from a distance, WOW, I was actually scared to drive it on a the approach, till u get up on it, and its just an illusion from a distance. :bouncy:


Well if you love that one you should try the Mackinac bridge that connects the U.P. and the L.P. of Michigan. 5 miles of :jawdrop:

[JBLRaiser]

You don't know the half of it so lets just drop it. It's a real sore spot and only serves to stir bad feelings up again.

ever

[JeffW]

You don't know the half of it so lets just drop it. It's a real sore spot and only serves to stir bad feelings up again.

I thought it was the "Lansing Heritage" site, sort of implying that the stuff here was "heritage". There was recent thread bemoaning that the new TOTL stuff wasn't even available for purchase in the US, sort of leaves us with the "heritage" gear or JBL Pro stuff if you know a dealer to get it through.

Now don't get me wrong, I'd love to travel to Japan to hear what the JBL engineers are doing these days, and I just might do that, but realistically most of us are stuck with the old stuff.

[scott fitlin]

Scotty, are you channeling the ol' T'Dome again? Or you been secretly reading my posts over at trance-mix? Well, good on ya if you are, though it's obvious you can make up your own mind without picking this six-decade-old brain. :yes:

I have never heard better music than I'm hearing today, and never on better systems, either. When I load in those Hi-rez files and mixes and push play, it's like living in another world--a world that's open, endless, powerful, alive.

You and I don't have the same kind of gear; we don't have the same kind of listening places; but we do have JBL in our veins and brains, and we believe in today as much as yesterday, maybe even a little more when it comes to JBL's products and the music that's available to play on them

Now, I'm not talking about the kind of stinky dog-shit-that-sticks-to-your-shoe music coming out of most music labels these days that is under-talented, derivative, over-produced, and compressed to an ear-wilting screech on a friggin' CD. I'm talking about those monster files that you can get from talented, music-crazy artists who are putting their lives into the music, learning how to master instruments normal and abnormal, recording that riff 75 times until they get the right fit for the mix, then carrying their TTs and synths and laptops from bar to bar and rathole to rathole and club to club, eventually into warehouses and barns and hangars. And all the while believing in their music and filled with optimism that it will be heard and that it will mean something when it is.

Whether I'm in the garage listening to those Northridge E50s (that I very carefully set up for two days before finding the right spot), or in the music room with the SVA surround system (which took two weeks to get right, including using a laptop to reconfigure the settings on the venerable Citation 5.0) or in the HT with the Performance Series (two easy days for the PT800s and PC600, one week for the PS1400s and HTPS400s, and month of swapping amps and adjusting the FAP-T1, comparing the DACs and Op Amps of the source vs. pre/pro), when it all comes together, it's the best ever.

Compared to what you do, Scotty, it's not much, but compared to my buddies with big-name, expensive, boutique systems, it's a source of extreme humiliation for all of them. "Why doesn't my system sound this good?" they ask.

A. Because your system as it's deployed isn't as good, even though it cost more. (and it'll never be JBL)
B. The music you're playing is produced in a way that it sounds like crap on your system. (sounds OK on a mini-system, though :p )

I'm taking a long, hard look at the Array Series. I know it's better than what I got, and of course we all know who designed them. Time keeps on slippin', slippin', slippin', into the future...Ti, NO, I haven't been reading your postds at tranceMix.

Everything i do when it comes to what to buy, when to play what, what mix I want to plAy, all comes from my own head. EVERYTHING, :bouncy: LOL.

And, not only that, Im in Coney island, which is Hip hop and RAP territory, and I played absolutel,y NONE this laste season, and my lines were.............................................. ........

Now I don't know what tracks were your hottest, I know what were mine.

What I do know, is the same thing YOU just said, THE MUSIC IS SLAMMIN! and, YESSSS, In many ways, I think the dance music available NOW IS even HOTTER han the HOTTEST moments dance music has had since discos take off in 1976. The PEAK moment of he underground house movement, was 1990, 0r 91 with C & C Music Factories _ Gonna Make You Sweat. That BROUGHT house up from the underground and made it a force to be deaLT WITH, AND YET, AS hot AS 1989-1993 WAS, WHAT iM PLAYING NOW, surpasses that stuff!

And, now, ONCE I figured out how critical certain seetings in Seratos setup page can be, OOOFFF, the sound opens even further! But it doesnt stop there, the Apple computer, iTunes preferences, I found settings, OMG, THE SOUND, FULL,LOW MIDS LIKE THEY SHOULD SOUND, DYNAMICS, TONS OF DYNAMICS, my highs NOT THAT Bacon frying sound coming out of everyones cars! Sweet, detailed, delicate shimmering, airy, extenended musicla top end. My mids, CLEAR, LUCID, DEPTH, 3dimensional images on recordings that were well done, and believe there are more well done cuts, than have been available in the entire last TEN YEARS, IMO!

NOW, THE BASS! BIG, HUGE, PUNCHY, GROWLING, ROARING, and yet, MUSICAL BASS. JUST MUCH MORE IN THIS NEW MUSIC han we had on ANY RECORD! Now, I got these Widget cabinets with all these JBL 2242,s and I chose to use the QSC 6.0 that I had, because I wanted the power, I wasnt happy withn how they had sounded with the other amps that I had avalable at that moment. And these things came to LIFE! And Clean, punchy, deep sounding, and heart pounding, and DISTINCTLY JBL, they are! Yet, they arent muddy, slugish, or bloated sounding, but, of all the amps I tried that I had, EXCEPT for 1, and Ill go there next, I wasnt happy till I put the QSC 6.0o them. Now, Im talking to an engineer friend, and he says, YEAH, you might like a Crown, or a this or a that, slightly more than whatever, BUT MOSTLY what YOUR hearing, is the fact that your woofers are PROPERLY powered, and YOU don't have to overdrive the amp, and the sound isnt becoming congested. In my heart, I knew this was true, and I am GETTING SOMETHING so I am happy, and ITs like OK let do new things.

Now that 1 amp I didnt try, My J Horns, HUGE cabinets, but the room needs them, NOTHING Im doing is working, and YET I can't take em out. 2 Crown PSA-2, bridge mono, yeah yeah, whatever, Crown 3600, Crest 8001,s next, hey wait a minute, I got that Crown I Tech 4000 put away, I bought two years ago, fuk it, lets see what it does! So, I go get it, hook it up, turn it on, its ok, actually too much, and yet, I hear something. So, Im down on the floor, getting into setting the amps controls. First off, clip limiters ON, 2000wpc, clip is a killer, ok Ill uuse clip limiters, HEY, its MUCH better. Now lets set the average power limiters, so over the course of a few hours I found what I felt the optimum sounding settings, same for the peak voltage limiters. AND YOU KNOW WHAT? Th J Horns sounded like SOMETHING NOW, FAST, HARD HITTING, KICK, no GUMMY BASS, no rubery shit, and that Crown GROWL, MOST of all? The Widget ported direct raditors and these J Horns are combining for something I've NEVER heard before, got rid of my cancellation, as when I had smaller folded horns in center stacks, 2242,s had CLEAN JBL DEEP yet nice articulation, and LOTS OF POWER, THEY LIKE POWER, and the J HORNS and The WIDGETS DECIDED THEY WOULD WORK TOGETHER, AND HOLY F___IN S__t!

nOW MY jbl TWEETERS, AND COMPRESSION DRIVERS ALL SOUND Great TO ME, MY TAD woofers sound great to me and I'm playing this new music with my new computer/serato setup and Im startin to spin! Im just running things see how things work. Its 2 weeks before easter, MIDDLE OF WINTER YET, and we are open, sort of, gettin things done, rides open, we don't do any biz that early in the year.

Its about 8PM now, I got a peiople in there, Im ringing up 30 people on reride, and I got a line on Surf Av side, these people are rocking on the groove. And I GOT people in there. Now, I mix in Marshall Jefferson - Mushrooms. It was a new trsack then, one I liked, funky bassline, the LYRICS! And the lyrics start comin thru CLEARER THEN KLEAR! ONE DAY, DOWN IN FLORIDA, I WAS WITH MY GIRL, SHE TOOK ME TO THIS PLACE. THEY HAD ALLLLLLLL KINDS OF THINGS GROWING, SHE GAVE ME SOMETHING, I SAID WHAT IS IT? IT'S A MUSHROOM, EAT IT! SO I ATE IT, DIDN"T TASTE LIKE MUCH. SHE SAID WAIT A FEW MINUTES, AND I DID! NEXT THING, I WAS WALKING ON CLOUDS!

One of them FUNKY TRACKS! But I only got one guy working with me, and WERE BUSY, in 40 degree weathger, BUT, these chicks, young woman, 20,s, the music must be workin, cause I got a DOZEN WOMEN IN THE CARS some of them are HUMPING the cars steering wheels, and I look at Rob, and he looks at me, Im LIKE WTF? He smiles and says maybe they ate some mushrooms too!

We were running 1 dollar rerides, and no ones is getting up, Rob says see, I told we had find the kind of music this place needs.

And everyones asking where do you get this music, do u have CD,s, the GUYS want to know what kind of sound system this is, and that was that, WE WERE HAVING A DANCE PARTY AT ELDORADO, Hip Hop WAS GONNNNNNNNNNNNE!

Ti Dome, in some ways, I even think the sound of this new format is surapasing analog records.

Now Im getting a MacBook Pro 17in, 2.6G Dual Core pentium, 4GB RAM, 200GB HD@7200RPM, external Storages, Raid1 or 5, U GOTTA HEAR WAV FILES hru this! Yo!

OH, and Im also getting into Ableton as well. I can make my own remixes, my own music.

THE SHIT WAS KICKIN IT WAS ON, THAT WAS THAT!

Without JBL, though, BUT WE DO HAVE JBL! :applaud:

This one track, one of those sinister wicked evil ones, RESTORED by Satofu, that was always good to get at least six people to ask if I had CD,s to sell!

THIS year? MORE CROWN and MORE JBL! ONE DAY, U come visit, YOU DRIVE THE TRAIN! ITS AN EXPERIENCE!

:bouncy:

[Mr. Widget]

I thought it was the "Lansing Heritage" site, sort of implying that the stuff here was "heritage". There was recent thread bemoaning that the new TOTL stuff wasn't even available for purchase in the US, sort of leaves us with the "heritage" gear or JBL Pro stuff if you know a dealer to get it through.

Now don't get me wrong, I'd love to travel to Japan to hear what the JBL engineers are doing these days, and I just might do that, but realistically most of us are stuck with the old stuff.I think most JBL systems and components are part of the legacy of Jim Lansing and therefore fair game... JBL Synthesis dealers can get most of the contemporary JBL stuff that is worth a damn.

There are a number of Japan only systems that are not really an evolution of the Lansing legacy, but rather odd ball pieces that fill a market niche. That said, here in the US the Synthesis dealers rarely stock a wide range of gear and finding one willing to demo the odd system is a challenge. Unfortunately there would be more dealers willing to audition more of the current amazing JBL systems that Greg and the gang in Northridge have put together, but the marketplace has changed a lot since the golden era of High Fidelity.


Widget

[Titanium Dome]

Ti Dome, in some ways, I even think the sound of this new format is surapasing analog records.

Now Im getting a MacBook Pro 17in, 2.6G Dual Core pentium, 4GB RAM, 200GB HD@7200RPM, external Storages, Raid1 or 5, U GOTTA HEAR WAV FILES hru this! Yo!

Sweet. I got the MBP 17" 2.5GHz with the high density screen and (slow but big) 300GB HD, but also a 1TB Firewire external drive.


OH, and Im also getting into Ableton as well. I can make my own remixes, my own music.

Ableton is def. cool, but a bit pricey for an amateur like me. Since Garageband comes free on the MBP, it does fine for me. Tons of samples and instruments are available, some free and lots of developer resources. Ableton is one of the top apps for sure, though. Either way, the big external HD is a must.


This one track, one of those sinister wicked evil ones, RESTORED by Satofu, that was always good to get at least six people to ask if I had CD,s to sell!

Actually, I know this track (got it at trackitdown.net, I'm pretty sure) and, yes, it draws people. I'd recommend it to anyone who wanted to exercise their speakers a bit with something that isn't all BOOM BOOM BOOM SCREECH SCREECH but rather that asked the musical question, "Can you handle quick, articulate, precise bass without exaggerating or whooshing, and crisp percussion and delicate highs without whizzing or shrieking?"

[scott fitlin]

Sweet. I got the MBP 17" 2.5GHz with the high density screen and (slow but big) 300GB HD, but also a 1TB Firewire external drive.



Ableton is def. cool, but a bit pricey for an amateur like me. Since Garageband comes free on the MBP, it does fine for me. Tons of samples and instruments are available, some free and lots of developer resources. Ableton is one of the top apps for sure, though. Either way, the big external HD is a must.



Actually, I know this track (got it at trackitdown.net, I'm pretty sure) and, yes, it draws people. I'd recommend it to anyone who wanted to exercise their speakers a bit with something that isn't all BOOM BOOM BOOM SCREECH SCREECH but rather that asked the musical question, "Can you handle quick, articulate, precise bass without exaggerating or whooshing, and crisp percussion and delicate highs without whizzing or shrieking?"I want to do 1TB external storages, two maybe 3. Storage archives can be slow as long as BIG, but my main HD has to be FASSST! Originally, I wanted to go he complete external route, and get Xserve, in addition to to MBP 17 , with two 300GB@15,000RPM, and one 1TB slower card, Raid5, but this box is 7 grand, tricked out my way, in addition to MBP, and I have freinds, one guy he makes his living doing serious data backup for major corps, And he says I can put together essentially the same thing as xserve, for alot less, using other brands of HD,s and stuff. He says your paying for the name apple. And slso, the HD cards that come standard in MBP, and things, the Hitachi, The samsung, The Western digitals, all well and good, but your NOT the heavy duty, cards that all laptops and machines in serious companies are using, and since I run my comps up to 14 hours a day, I better pay attention to this. Did you know Serato and an Apple G4 was only designed to run about 2 hokurs? Scratchlive themselves told it to me. So, now, the G4 recommendation thy all say, is well, I need a machine made to be run some hours!

He is gonna help me put together sumtin GOOD! But Im def using MBP 17.

I was definitely going for a second operating system, from a creative standpoint of doing more, and doing things beyond Serato, don't get me wrong, as a spin music medium, Serato is excellent, its reliable, it holds up, and is simple to use, and it DOES SOUND GOOD!

And originally, Traktor was going to be my 2nd system, till I started messing around with with the online things at Abletons site, then at my freinds place with Ableton itself. Now, unlike Serato, or Traktor, this isnt a play music and DJ software/hardfware package, it, as you said, is a MUSIC PRODUCING software/hardware package, BUT, OMG the things u can do! I mean, I can do sumtin with it, I KNOW I CAN! IT IS FANTASTIC!

Satofu? Hmm, Im impressed. Not your typical dance music, and yes your system needs to be up to being able to reproduce this properly, , but TO JBL that synth bass presents no problem. Is this not FIERCE MUSIC?

You have a taste in music, cause thats not radio pop, thats not bubble gum house, that is the shit. :applaud:

These tracks from the last few weeks,

Bengang-Original mix-Pual Kalkbrenner ( Ti, U MUST GET THIS!! U MUST )

Golden Face - DJ M-traxxx's Techno South Mix

Free Passenger - Original Mix - Thomas Sari

The Underground is coming - ORIGINAL mix - JC Mazter

And for something beautiful and more melodic,

Ainowa feat. Mao Denda - original mix- DJ Juri, The World Of Taiko Dub EP ( Love Edition )

:dj-party:

[4313B]

Now don't get me wrong, I'd love to travel to Japan to hear what the JBL engineers are doing these days, and I just might do that, but realistically most of us are stuck with the old stuff.That we are.

There are far worse fates than being stuck with a pair of 250Ti's, 4344's, 4345's or 4355's though.

I think most JBL systems and components are part of the legacy of Jim Lansing and therefore fair game... JBL Synthesis dealers can get most of the contemporary JBL stuff that is worth a damn. For example:

http://www.home-technology-store.com/consulting/jbl-syntheses.aspx


everYeah, whatever is right... a comment like "the S4800 or 4338 is a modern day L300 or 4333" seems innocent enough...

Whatever! :rotfl:

[John]

Ti, NO, I haven't been reading your postds at tranceMix.

Everything i do when it comes to what to buy, when to play what, what mix I want to plAy, all comes from my own head. EVERYTHING, :bouncy: LOL.

And, not only that, Im in Coney island, which is Hip hop and RAP territory, and I played absolutel,y NONE this laste season, and my lines were.............................................. ........

Now I don't know what tracks were your hottest, I know what were mine.

What I do know, is the same thing YOU just said, THE MUSIC IS SLAMMIN! and, YESSSS, In many ways, I think the dance music available NOW IS even HOTTER han the HOTTEST moments dance music has had since discos take off in 1976. The PEAK moment of he underground house movement, was 1990, 0r 91 with C & C Music Factories _ Gonna Make You Sweat. That BROUGHT house up from the underground and made it a force to be deaLT WITH, AND YET, AS hot AS 1989-1993 WAS, WHAT iM PLAYING NOW, surpasses that stuff!

And, now, ONCE I figured out how critical certain seetings in Seratos setup page can be, OOOFFF, the sound opens even further! But it doesnt stop there, the Apple computer, iTunes preferences, I found settings, OMG, THE SOUND, FULL,LOW MIDS LIKE THEY SHOULD SOUND, DYNAMICS, TONS OF DYNAMICS, my highs NOT THAT Bacon frying sound coming out of everyones cars! Sweet, detailed, delicate shimmering, airy, extenended musicla top end. My mids, CLEAR, LUCID, DEPTH, 3dimensional images on recordings that were well done, and believe there are more well done cuts, than have been available in the entire last TEN YEARS, IMO!

NOW, THE BASS! BIG, HUGE, PUNCHY, GROWLING, ROARING, and yet, MUSICAL BASS. JUST MUCH MORE IN THIS NEW MUSIC han we had on ANY RECORD! Now, I got these Widget cabinets with all these JBL 2242,s and I chose to use the QSC 6.0 that I had, because I wanted the power, I wasnt happy withn how they had sounded with the other amps that I had avalable at that moment. And these things came to LIFE! And Clean, punchy, deep sounding, and heart pounding, and DISTINCTLY JBL, they are! Yet, they arent muddy, slugish, or bloated sounding, but, of all the amps I tried that I had, EXCEPT for 1, and Ill go there next, I wasnt happy till I put the QSC 6.0o them. Now, Im talking to an engineer friend, and he says, YEAH, you might like a Crown, or a this or a that, slightly more than whatever, BUT MOSTLY what YOUR hearing, is the fact that your woofers are PROPERLY powered, and YOU don't have to overdrive the amp, and the sound isnt becoming congested. In my heart, I knew this was true, and I am GETTING SOMETHING so I am happy, and ITs like OK let do new things.

Now that 1 amp I didnt try, My J Horns, HUGE cabinets, but the room needs them, NOTHING Im doing is working, and YET I can't take em out. 2 Crown PSA-2, bridge mono, yeah yeah, whatever, Crown 3600, Crest 8001,s next, hey wait a minute, I got that Crown I Tech 4000 put away, I bought two years ago, fuk it, lets see what it does! So, I go get it, hook it up, turn it on, its ok, actually too much, and yet, I hear something. So, Im down on the floor, getting into setting the amps controls. First off, clip limiters ON, 2000wpc, clip is a killer, ok Ill uuse clip limiters, HEY, its MUCH better. Now lets set the average power limiters, so over the course of a few hours I found what I felt the optimum sounding settings, same for the peak voltage limiters. AND YOU KNOW WHAT? Th J Horns sounded like SOMETHING NOW, FAST, HARD HITTING, KICK, no GUMMY BASS, no rubery shit, and that Crown GROWL, MOST of all? The Widget ported direct raditors and these J Horns are combining for something I've NEVER heard before, got rid of my cancellation, as when I had smaller folded horns in center stacks, 2242,s had CLEAN JBL DEEP yet nice articulation, and LOTS OF POWER, THEY LIKE POWER, and the J HORNS and The WIDGETS DECIDED THEY WOULD WORK TOGETHER, AND HOLY F___IN S__t!

nOW MY jbl TWEETERS, AND COMPRESSION DRIVERS ALL SOUND Great TO ME, MY TAD woofers sound great to me and I'm playing this new music with my new computer/serato setup and Im startin to spin! Im just running things see how things work. Its 2 weeks before easter, MIDDLE OF WINTER YET, and we are open, sort of, gettin things done, rides open, we don't do any biz that early in the year.

Its about 8PM now, I got a peiople in there, Im ringing up 30 people on reride, and I got a line on Surf Av side, these people are rocking on the groove. And I GOT people in there. Now, I mix in Marshall Jefferson - Mushrooms. It was a new trsack then, one I liked, funky bassline, the LYRICS! And the lyrics start comin thru CLEARER THEN KLEAR! ONE DAY, DOWN IN FLORIDA, I WAS WITH MY GIRL, SHE TOOK ME TO THIS PLACE. THEY HAD ALLLLLLLL KINDS OF THINGS GROWING, SHE GAVE ME SOMETHING, I SAID WHAT IS IT? IT'S A MUSHROOM, EAT IT! SO I ATE IT, DIDN"T TASTE LIKE MUCH. SHE SAID WAIT A FEW MINUTES, AND I DID! NEXT THING, I WAS WALKING ON CLOUDS!

One of them FUNKY TRACKS! But I only got one guy working with me, and WERE BUSY, in 40 degree weathger, BUT, these chicks, young woman, 20,s, the music must be workin, cause I got a DOZEN WOMEN IN THE CARS some of them are HUMPING the cars steering wheels, and I look at Rob, and he looks at me, Im LIKE WTF? He smiles and says maybe they ate some mushrooms too!

We were running 1 dollar rerides, and no ones is getting up, Rob says see, I told we had find the kind of music this place needs.

And everyones asking where do you get this music, do u have CD,s, the GUYS want to know what kind of sound system this is, and that was that, WE WERE HAVING A DANCE PARTY AT ELDORADO, Hip Hop WAS GONNNNNNNNNNNNE!

Ti Dome, in some ways, I even think the sound of this new format is surapasing analog records.

Now Im getting a MacBook Pro 17in, 2.6G Dual Core pentium, 4GB RAM, 200GB HD@7200RPM, external Storages, Raid1 or 5, U GOTTA HEAR WAV FILES hru this! Yo!

OH, and Im also getting into Ableton as well. I can make my own remixes, my own music.

THE SHIT WAS KICKIN IT WAS ON, THAT WAS THAT!

Without JBL, though, BUT WE DO HAVE JBL! :applaud:

This one track, one of those sinister wicked evil ones, RESTORED by Satofu, that was always good to get at least six people to ask if I had CD,s to sell!

THIS year? MORE CROWN and MORE JBL! ONE DAY, U come visit, YOU DRIVE THE TRAIN! ITS AN EXPERIENCE!

:bouncy:



What did you say???:blink:

[scott fitlin]

What did you say???:blink:THATS what I said.

:D

[robertbartsch]

I've enjoyed the JBL and Altec legacy stuff for 40+ years. It is amazing to me that this old stuff still performs better than most anything made today.

That said, I prefer the current JBL Professional series stuff over the older L series monitors including the L300. The advantage with the new stuff is that you can build a large 2-way or 3-way system with compression drivers, horns, etc. for the same or less than what an L300 in like-new condition sells for in the vintage marketplace today. In addition, the new drivers out-perform the old stuff in every way.

Even though the current HT market is very different from the high fidelity market was only a few decades ago, I beleive JBL is missing an opportunity for significant sales in today's "big" HT market.

They should re-enter (???) the home market with a moderate sized quality 12 inch LF, compression driver HF system at a reasonable price - say under $600 USD. (Yeh, I know, I don't consider their current consumer offerings "quality" gear for good reason)

Look at the current competition in Best Buy, for example! Specifically, tall black and pricey "Klip-HornZ" that are pure sewage. Ask me since, I own four of these. Bose is another bad joke but, apparently, they fly off the selves.

[Mr. Widget]

I've enjoyed the JBL and Altec legacy stuff for 40+ years. It is amazing to me that this old stuff still performs better than most anything made today.What? :blink:
You need to listen to better new stuff.



They should re-enter (???) the home market with a moderate sized quality 12 inch LF, compression driver HF system at a reasonable price - say under $600 USD. (Yeh, I know, I don't consider their current consumer offerings "quality" gear for good reason) What are you talking about... you can't make a quality compression driver and horn for $600... certainly not a complete compression driver based system at this sort of price point...

It seems to me that you are comparing used gear pricing and cheap imported junk... that simply isn't fair. JBL's current gear such as the excellent yet expensive ~$11K/pair Array 1400 costs about the same as JBL's comparable gear did back in the day when inflation is taken into account. The fact that many other household items have radically dropped in price due to lowering of quality (Will today's appliances last as long as the ones we grew up with?) or the use of extremely poorly paid offshore labor isn't a good metric for price comparisons.


Widget

[scott fitlin]

These days a GOOD compression driver, ALONE, is more than $600, and we didn't even buy a horn yet!

I LOVED my old Altec woofers, BUT, Im sorry to tell you, and I OPENLY ADMIT as well, MY CURRENT 15in woofers OUTPERFORM my OLD Altecs!

SONICALLY, MECHANICALLY, and, ELECTRICALLY, and THERMALLY!

And MY modern JBL 18,s ( OF WHICH I AM GETTING MORE ) and MODERN High Power amps, well, I don't call my system " THE MAMMOTH " for nothing, she ain't no house cat!

Now, if someone says to me, my old JBL and old Altec sound DIFFERENT from todays stuff, and I like it BETTER, I can accept that!

The "GOOD" stuff is made, utilizing todays top technologies, BUT, IT costs BIG!

Take crown for example, the technology is different today, the amps are still made here in the USA, at least the line Im using, they do sound different from DC-300A,s, BUT THEY DO SOUND LIKE CROWNS!

I need 5 new amps for my SUBS project this winter, and at $3100ea, IT AIN'T CHEAP!

BUT, THEY DO WORK, and THEY will outperform yesterday!

[scott fitlin]

I, also used to think WHY doesnt JBL remake this, or make a NEW that?

PEOPLE! Thats why! People don't want to buy this type of stuff.

People buy those CUTE looking, easy to use, inexpensive to buy, Bose thingies! TO ME? Bose Blows, No Highs, No Lows, But The People Don't KNOWS! Nor do they care! :D

The BIG speaker, it's a NICHE market now! And that NICHE heere in the United states, IS not a big NICHE!

Your right about JBL Pro KICKIN ASS over everything else, mostly, though!

But, again, HOW MUCH JBL Pro is in peoples homes, save for a few CRAZY DJ types that WANT THAT? Not much!

Few years back, my friend Kenny, He bought that Bose ACOUTIMASS Wave radio, what was it then, $400 or so? Calls me to his house to hear this thing and how GREAT it i!

And I couldnt believe HOW BAD it sounded! I would much rather have a KLH tabletop radio, BUT Ken thought it was awesome! Considering the litle 2 or 3 watt chip IC amp it has, it WAS loud, though! BUT thats ALL it was!

And you couldnt tell Kenny different! Now Kenny has heard my room, he also asks me what things cost! he shakes his head, he wouldnt spend that kind of money! And he has it too! But Kenny will never spend BIG for a high end system for his living room, so, whats JBL to do? Make something they can't sell, or make what the market will gobble up?

And HEY, that's just fine with me. Because as LONG as JBL is HERE and does make both what THEY will buy, AND JBL Pro that I CAN USE, at least JBL is still here, and I have the availability of products, to create a sound, WHICH VERY FEW OTHERS HAVE EQUALED!

Of course, the fact of the matter is, however, the Array 1400 IS available IF you want to BUY it, but, again, cost and size, prohibit most from wanting or buying them. I have to agree with WIDGET, YOU JUST CAN'T MAKE THAT SPEAKER at the $600.00 retail price point.

[Paul D]

The nice thing is that you can go out and buy a pair of 2226's, 2426's, and 2370's and build a couple of cabinets which will look good in the living room. Get an electronic crossover (or build a passive one) and you would have a killer system that you could build on. This isn't exactly cheap but you would have a system much better than anything Best Buy or even some high end shops could offer! Want to save money, go for used equipment:applaud:

[4313B]

These days a GOOD compression driver, ALONE, is more than $600, and we didn't even buy a horn yet!The JBL 175ND-3 which is used in the 800 and 1000 Array as well as some Synthesis systems is ~ $210, a toy compared to your 2441's but decent nevertheless.

The 2452H-SL which is JBL's current goto 4-inch compression driver is $1,429 and arguably worth every penny.

I think Zilch and Co use a plethora of cheap compression drivers on even cheaper JBL waveguides. They seem to like them just fine.

(Yeh, I know, I don't consider their current consumer offerings "quality" gear for good reason)The upper end consumer gear is pretty high quality, the best JBL has ever offered in 60 years.

[Mr. Widget]

The nice thing is that you can go out and buy a pair of 2226's, 2426's, and 2370's and build a couple of cabinets which will look good in the living room. Get an electronic crossover (or build a passive one) and you would have a killer system that you could build on. This isn't exactly cheap but you would have a system much better than anything Best Buy or even some high end shops could offer! Want to save money, go for used equipment:applaud:Those wouldn't be on my short list of drivers, but I agree with your premise... basically this is why so many of us have been doing the DIY thing all these years. That, and the fact that it is a kick in the pants. :D


Widget

[scott fitlin]

The JBL 175ND-3 which is used in the 800 and 1000 Array as well as some Synthesis systems is ~ $210, a toy compared to your 2441's but decent nevertheless.

The 2452H-SL which is JBL's current goto 4-inch compression driver is $1,429 and arguably worth every penny.

Yeah, and I, like you, agree, YOU GET WHAT YOU SPEND, as under the 2450J, I aint even looking!

Umm, JBL 2452H-SL, $1429.00 US! Worth every penny? Im afraid so, yes it is!

THIS is what I speak of, and if your system has ANY kind of resolution at all, YOU'LL hear it, right away!

However, no one should fool themselves into thinking the 175ND-3 is the 2452H-SL! because quite simply, they aint! Good, though,they are!

[scott fitlin]

Although I do confess I like the 2446J on certain horns! I do.

[jbl-ahhh]

I know this is a late post, but as a 4411 owner and lover :bouncy: I just gotta' hear how the 4411s are doing. I had trouble getting my 128Hs out of the cabinets too. With some careful prying they popped out with only small pieces of the wood peeling off.

Have you played around with room placement at all?

dd

Quote:
Originally Posted by SMKSoundPro http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=225058#post225058)
Hey Doc!

Looks great!!!

I am re-foaming the 128 woofers from a pair of 4411's that walked into my shop a few weeks ago. Can't wait to get them singin' and swingin' again. There are NOT as pretty as yours, though.

Have you had a chance to play with the Ashly 4001 yet?

Don't stop! Some will live vicariously through you and your sweet bride.

Scotty.

Hey, Scotty,

I look forward to reading your report on those 4411's, once you get them refoamed, and ready to go! I still cannot get my 128H's out of the enclosures, but will keep on trying. Worse comes to worse, I may have to take both enclosures down to Edgewound, and let him blow the woofers out of there with a couple thousand watts of power!! :blink:;)

[Doc Mark]

Hey, dd,

Thanks for the kind comments. Yes, I finally did get my 4411's refoamed, and that work was done by our own Edgewound, who is a very professional and highly qualified JBL Authorized dealer. They looked like brand new when he finished with them, and I did spend quite a bit of time listening to them. Both Sweet Bride and I very much liked them, and had we not first had our L300's, with which to compare the 4411's, we would probably be using them for our main speakers today! However, after quite a bit of time listening to the 4411's, then going back to the L300's, both of us much prefer the sound and depth of the L300's. They just sound "bigger" than the 4411's, and we prefer that bigger sound. Also, we love good horns, and those used in the L300's are outstanding, still, even though eclipsed by newer JBL designs. This should take nothing away from the 4411's, however, as they are very nice speakers, and we love having them in our JBL "library"! We'll use them in another system here at the house, and will very much enjoy them for the fine speakers they are. I posted photos of them in action, after the refoam. If you'd like, I'll repost them, so you can see how they turned out. Or, do a bit of searching for 4411 posts, and you might turn up that thread. Have fun with your own 4411's, as they are outstanding speakers! Were we to use them for our main system, we'd add a good JBL subwoofer, using the 2245H, or the 2242H, and be extremely happy with them! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc