Harman-Japan-A visit to Japan

[Ian Mackenzie]

Harman-Japan-A visit to Japan


This is a short informal thread on my recent visit to Japan where in my travel’s I came across some shops that stocked and sold the current JBL range as distributed by Harman-Japan.

Perhaps a little background.

For a while now I have wanted to experience the more contemporary JBL series, the new Project Everest DD66000, the Project K2 S9600SE series and the S4600.

The common theme of all these systems is a 2 or 2 ½ way design using a large woofer and compression driver - horn assemblies featuring JBL’s most recent technologies.

As we all know its one thing to read and view a brochure but to actual experience such systems is far more fulfilling. I am also preparing to build a diy Tad based two way system so it made sense to get some idea of what a proper two way system is about.

A copy of the new Harman - Japan catalogue 2008/Vol.1 has been sent to 4313B.

But as I found out there is so much more to JBL in Japan.

They also have the LS series, the Blue baffle Studio series including 4348, 4338, 4428, 4338, 4312D, 4388, 4312D 4307, 4305, 4304, 4312M, 4308 4305 and the new TS series featuring magnesium based drivers.

The A series and Studio L series are also sold in Japan.

I will try and scan the brochure and attached it (text is Japanese except for model numbers)

So what happened.

Well on my first day (Monday 6th October 2008) after some initial sightseeing I went to an area called Akihabara otherwise known as Electric City or Gadget town and explored some shops looking for JBL’s.

This place is just buzzing with electronics , PC’s, games, visual imaging and large department stores with sometimes 7 stories covering every category. The speciality hifi shops appeared to be in more or less one precinct like Dynamic Audio.

But what got me was these speciality stores are narrow fronted buildings with like 7 floors in categories of AV, pure audio, American audio, European audio, Laboratory components ect.

After a bit of window shopping I went into one store (I will find the card later) and a sales lady offered to demonstrate the Everest DD6600 system in their hi end room on the top floor.

I was fairly open about my visit and the pitch was I could not audition them locally (a fact) which shocked the sales rep because as she explained all the Hifi shops in Akihabara carry the DD6600!!

In a word they are big loudspeakers. They sounded great and the finish is really beautiful.

I don’t want to make a song and dance about the why’s and where for’s of how they sounded because in a shop floor covered with like ½ dozen other large systems you cannot make a critical appraisal where positioning is often not ideal, woofers mutually couple like passive radiators and the tunes - cds they play as much as the associated equipment are unknown.

But in this shop they were using Accuphase amps and I liked what I heard.
I went around the corner to another shop called Analogue Audio and heard the blue baffle 4338s and they did not fail to impress in this set-up.

At the time I felt for the lesser yen compared to the DD6600 they were my pick. With the large wide baffle they not only look great but sound impressive.

My comments about right or wrong impressions in some retail shops held water because on my last day (Tuesday 14th October2008) I heard the 4338s back in the first shop I went to on a different floor and they sounded bass heavy and chesty.

Steve Kim and I also heard the 4338s (on Monday evening 13th October 2008) and a bunch of other blue baffle systems in a large department store with all the boxes stacked against a wall and it was obviously not performing at its best.



So to see people jump on the forums and say hey this was wrong or that tells me they are a little short sighted and in some ways inexperienced.

I dont mean to offend those who want to make comments about impressions of particular systems but my point is based on several auditions in different retail environments each time my impressions were quite different. If it sounds not right then something is obviously wrong. Even with another system in proximity of the same room the woofers will react and muddy the sound of the system under audition. Shorting the rear terminals helps but the woofers will still react.


On my last day I went back to the first shop (the sales lady was married..Lol) and heard a range of systems.

The 4338s again, the TS 8000 series and the 4600.

Again I imagine with placement issues (floor / wall boundary) the 4338 was the lesser favourite to the 4600.

The 4600 sounds better than it has any right to as I think Greg Timbers was quoted as saying. The LE14-4 based woofer is brilliant and the horn has an open airy quality.

The T8000 was also very nice and would score highly with classical music buffs.

We had a laugh about the falling dollar and how I would place my order next time.

Next I went back to Dynamic audio and heard the K2 S9800SE running on a pair of Pass Labs 1000.5 mono blocks.

The rep allowed me to play one of my own cd’s on my last day (Cassandra Wilson). This was a real treat and being at least familiar with the cd it was a bit more informative.

This system was absolutely brilliant.

Monday evening Steve Kim and I went into Japans largest electronics shop and heard most of the smaller systems including a new model called the 4308.

It was a hard call and again the larger 4338 sounded bass heavy due to placement and we like the 4600. The taller 4600 has the woofer raised some distance from the floor and in this case the box well out from the wall. The smaller systems like the 4305H were respectable but obviously budget & box size was a bigger consideration over performance.

We went and looked at some other display areas with European brands like Focal, Proac and some other exotic stuff. I was quite amazed at the space given to cables and other small items. They had rows of large glass cases just for cables and power cord.

My impression is that HiFi and JBL in particular is big business in Japan.

Sorry for the pose..that was Steve's idea. many thanks to Steve for being my guide on Japans busy subway system.

As it turned I became a familiar face for some of the Japanese ladies while touring
__________________

[4313B]

Very nice Ian!

Thanks for the post and photos. :)

[Ian Mackenzie]

Some more pics.

The 9800SE system, a 4343 installed in a Jazz bar, an Array system and the Akihabara district.

There were of course other things to see and do in Japan:).

[Ian Mackenzie]

Okay, I have some more images.

Ian

[pos]

Nice! Thanks for the report!

Did you hear some 4348 ?
This is the only remaining 4 way system :(

[Ian Mackenzie]

I dont recall specifically listening to that model as I was more interested in the two 1/2 way systems .:).

Steve K an I did hear the 4344Mk11 in a jazz bar and they were very nice. The 4344mk11 was the last of the older 43X 4 way series.

Its hard to generalise but the presentation is more in your ear (presence) with 4 way style but I find them less detailed & coherent then the better crop of 2 1/2 way JBL's. The bass appears somewhat heavier with the larger studio Series and no doubt this has a lot to do with location and perhaps the way they are tuned.

Why don't you order a pair of 4348 from Dynamic Audio if you are serious about going the 4 way route. They are only 850,000 yen.

In the department store I was quite keen on the 4307 76,000 yen (with tweeter phase plug) and the 4318 175,000 yen (with wave guide tweeter). That is the one with the white cone woofers and the shiny mid cone and tweeter with the phase plug/small tweeter wave guide.

All those direct radiator based blue studio series are really cute. They do however sound somewhat different to the smaller horn loaded systems like the 4350H 59,000 yen, the 4312M 72000 yen which I felt were more of a compact bookshelf speaker where space is at a premium.

We also heard the compact 4428 for only a cool 245,00 yen. Its uses the 1200FE woofer and it was nice. But as mentioned earlier they would work better raised up on stands. I heard them on stands in another shop and they are very nice.

In yet another shop I recall hearing the K2 S5800 1,050,000 yen (MTM using the 1200FE woofer ) with a familar CD I had. They had an open midrange and were very clean. But due to placement and perhaps associated equipment the bass was heavy. They are rear ported and perhaps this was a contributing factor to the bass (see my comments above.

I think all these 2 1/2 systems need raising off the floor or careful placement.

Heck, what didn't I hear in the space of a few days.

In summary it came down to the quality of the set-up on the day but I think if you are not an rich oil baron (the DD6600 3,000,000 yen is the one for them) from the consumer Project K2 series the S9800SE 1,700,000 yen is to die for, followed closely by the 4600 for only 460,000 yen and the TS8000 420,000 yen if you have WAF issues. (Those prices are each !...as I recall)

[pos]

Why don't you order a pair of 4348 from Dynamic Audio if you are serious about going the 4 way route. They are only 850,000 yen.
I am more curious than serious, that is why I am taking the DIY route :D


We also heard the compact 4428 for only a cool 245,00 yen. Its uses the 1200FE woofer and it was nice.
same price as the LSR6332 :hmm:

[Ian Mackenzie]

Pos,

I appreciate your enquiry and I have had a few pms about what I heard.

I don't want to throw a cold blanket on any diy ambitions as a result of my report but perhaps a few guidlines are in order:-

Firstly anything to do with audio is so subjective that I think it would be incorrect to use any of my above comments as a sounding board for a future diy project.

Secondly I doubt any diy project will ever sound quite the same as a current model JBL horn based system.

Take the 9800 horn. A number of people have made diy clone versions of this horn out of wood using the 1500AL woofer for a 2 way system but not all have proven to be satisfactory.

Thirdly, while my comments are somewhat guarded about the environmental effects they are only my impressions and as such I recommend visiting Japan as I did to hear such devices before spending a lot of money on a diy project.

Forthly, even JBL admit some current designs seem to just work out well while other despite marvels of engineering are not so successful.

Historically we have the benefit of hindsight in knowing how the vintage systems perform and systems such as the 4343-4344, 4333 and others make excellent diy projects.

The more current crop of JBL drivers are definately NOT diy user friendly or plug and play in a number of instances and unless you are technically very insightful and have access to all the original parts cloning a current system is just a dream.

Fortunately for my own diy project I have a worked design and while I hold the opinions of the designers with the up most esteem its still quite a gamble.

What I will say is don't write off the vintage systems in terms of sound quality based on some hot or cold air play about the current models.

Therefore to avoid disappointment I conclude it comes down to a look and listen and then buy at a level you can afford if you want a current model JBL in your home.

Air fares and packages to Tokyo are quite reasonable and while you are browsing the JBLs your wife or girlfriend can be spending up on your Visa card in Ginza, Tokyo's fashion district.

May I suggest you pm Zilch as I recall he has/had possession of the drivers you want.

[BMWCCA]

Thanks for the great trip report.

Several times you mention a "4600" with the LE14-4-based woofer. Is that the K2 version, the S4600, a model that has intrigued me since it was first announced? Did I miss a photo of it in your post? Oh, that must be it in the row behind you in the posed shot, and a bit to your right, if you mean the S4600. Is it the S4600 mentioned here: http://www.harman-japan.co.jp/product/jblhome/s4600.html

My Googling that model shows you can purchase it from Amazon.com in Japan (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.amazon.co.jp/JBL-S4600-1%25E6%259C%25AC-%25E3%2583%2595%25E3%2583%25AD%25E3%2582%25A2%25E3 %2583%25BC%25E5%259E%258B%25E3%2582%25B9%25E3%2583 %2594%25E3%2583%25BC%25E3%2582%25AB%25E3%2583%25BC %25E3%2582%25B7%25E3%2582%25B9%25E3%2583%2586%25E3 %2583%25A0/dp/B000XAED1Y&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3DJBL%2Bs4600%26start%3D10%26hl%3Den%26 client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN). So enough of JBL's excuse of availability problems in the U.S. blamed on a shortage of dealers!

Hi-Fi Ring mentions these at $4,000/pair. Amazon.jp has them at closer to $4,000 each. Do you know which is correct? Available everywhere except in the U.S.?

[pos]

I appreciate your enquiry and I have had a few pms about what I heard.
I am not sure I understand what you mean here (language barrier)


May I suggest you pm Zilch as I recall he has/had possession of the drivers you want.
Actually I don't really know what component I will need to buy next. I already have a lot of toys to play with.
I am hesitating on the mid woofer to use tho.
It will depend on the test I will carry on when my 2245 are reconed (christmas!).
I will try two things with the drivers I have and some digital corssovers:
- the 434X-like option: 2245H+2123H@300Hz+H9800@1000Hz
- the GT-like option: 2245H+128H@100Hz+H9800@800Hz

Depending on what sounds/mesures best I might then try to find some 2122H, 2251J, 251J or Synthesis 8 for the first option, or some 1200Fe, 1200H, or 2206H for the second option. Maybe a TAD 1101 would be an good compromise...

Anyway, sorry for the OT :o:

[Ian Mackenzie]

Thanks for the great trip report.

Several times you mention a "4600" with the LE14-4-based woofer. Is that the K2 version, the S4600, a model that has intrigued me since it was first announced? Did I miss a photo of it in your post? Oh, that must be it in the row behind you in the posed shot, and a bit to your right, if you mean the S4600. Is it the S4600 mentioned here: http://www.harman-japan.co.jp/product/jblhome/s4600.html



Yes its the S4600. The WAF factor and relatively low price make it attractive.

I cannot confirm pricing. Steve K maybe able to provide more specific data.

I did not heard the S4800 with the 1500FE woofer but I imagine it would be a ball tearer.

Pos, I wish you well with your diy plans.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Very nice Ian!

Thanks for the post and photos. :)

Are you kidding, I have saved the best till last.

This beautiful young lady introduced me to Kyoto.

Her name is Kanuka and she would love to see a Koala and a Kangaroo.

I will see what can be arranged!

[4313B]

Her name is Kanuka and she would love to see a Koala and a Kangaroo.

I will see what can be arranged!Outstanding! :yes:

[JeffW]

There's about 100 Yen to the US dollar right now, $.99 or so, so you can divide those prices by 100 and get pretty close to the dollar amount.

And looks like the prices are indeed per speaker, the .jp website has the price in Yen / 1 in the descriptions.

Nice account of your journey, thanks for posting it.

[spkrman57]

Ian,

This is a very well written thread you posted and I enjoyed all your comments.

I myself had been in Akihabara back 1982-84 but unfortunately I was not a "audiophile" back then, but I still appreciated the way all the electronic goods were displayed everywhere. They had air conditioners running mounted on metal frames outside on the sidewalk, TV sets, just about anything that was for sale was on display one way or another.

Had I known back then what I know now, I would have brought back some really nice audio gear!!!

Cheers, Ron

[Fangio]

Ian looks like you had quite some fun. :)

Don't want to get too much socio-cultural here but how do people over there describe their rare devotion to the vintage american gems? While you were there, did you get an idea why people in Japan a. have such a high rate of audio lovers, and b. are collecting the old JBL's in particular?

Curious minds want to know.

[Hoerninger]

... I have saved the best till last.
... Her name is Kanuka


:) What a lovely smile! :)
Would you have shown me all that JBL I would have done it too, believe it!

____________
Peter

[Titanium Dome]

Had I known back then what I know now, I would have brought back some really nice audio gear!!!

Cheers, Ron

I would have brought back the girl, Kanuka.

[hjames]

I would have brought back the girl, Kanuka.

Now now ... :D

Sounds like Ian has plans for that gear already ...

[Titanium Dome]

Now now ... :D

Sounds like Ian has plans for that gear already ...

Can't help it Heather. :D

Mr. Ace Mackenzie combined two of my favorite things in one thread. If we could add "reputation points" on this site, ol' Ian would get some from me right now.

:bouncy:

[JeffW]

I would have brought back the girl, Kanuka.

I bet she wasn't even born in '82~'84 :D

(But I know what you meant ;) )

[SEAWOLF97]

There's about 100 Yen to the US dollar right now, $.99 or so, so you can divide those prices by 100 and get pretty close to the dollar amount..

nice presentation, Ian,,,thanx

last time I was in Japan it was 360yen to a dollar ( ..mebbe a while ago..:hmm: ??)

[Ian Mackenzie]

Hi Jeff,

I think you are right about the price per box but I will ask Steve K to also check this out.

In the large department store I was interested in buying a pair of the smaller blue baffle systems ...until they said prices were each. At that stage...Monday my AUD had plunged 12% and today its still around 65.89 yen per dollar.

It was fun going through the range all the same.

Ian

[Ian Mackenzie]

Hi Ron,

I understand its always been an electrical buyers dream and perhaps we can get some more insight from Steve K.

At the moment Akihabara has a strong pesence of gaming software and visual imaging but off the side streets there are still smaller store pushing their old charm.

I walked into one small shop and they had a pair of 2121's reconed.


Ian

[Ian Mackenzie]

Ian looks like you had quite some fun. :)

Don't want to get too much socio-cultural here but how do people over there describe their rare devotion to the vintage american gems? While you were there, did you get an idea why people in Japan a. have such a high rate of audio lovers, and b. are collecting the old JBL's in particular?

Curious minds want to know.

Good question.

I sense they are very discerning and things like education and the arts rank highly on the list of must haves.

But I think it could be a baby boomer thing to some extent as most of the customers in the audio specialty shops were in their late 40s-50's. Some Japanese were/are educated in the U.S.A and they were exposed to JBL at university in CA.

Steve K has a storey to tell about this and when he gets some spare time perhaps Steve can outline and give us some clues.

In spite what ever generation the displays of real audio in the large department stores were on a scale I have never seen.

I think I lot of new audio is also being sold and there is a lot of older stuff like the 4343's in places like the Jazz bars.

I mean Steve K lined me up for two Jazz bars in one night both with sofit mounted 43XX systems and they sounded really good.

One bar was as an all analogue place and you were not allowed to talk at all apparently. In the second bar the owner had Aleph 2 mono blocks on the bar driving sofit 4343. He apparently had a smilar system at home.

How cool was that!

Ian

[JeffW]

I understand Jazz is big in Japan, looks like your "research" backs this up.

I've always wanted to go to Japan, but I'd sure need a guide to get around. I could make a trip of just visiting audio shops, jazz bars, and eating.

So the Japanese have all this massive gear, do they ever crank it up? My (perhaps incorrect) understanding is that the houses are relatively small and tightly packed. Talk about PO'ing the neighbors, my house is on 2 lots and I still PO my neighbors.

[Guido]

In the second bar the owner had Aleph 2 mono blocks on the bar driving sofit 4343. He apparently had a smilar system at home.

How cool was that!

Ian

:coolness:

Thanks for that interesting thread.

Oh there are working 1500AL, H9800, 2435 AQPL Systems out there ;)

[saeman]

Hello Ian:

Sounds like you had a great time on your trip. It also sounds like you hit some of the places we did on our trip this last January Kyoto, Akihabara, 7th floor and the Everest demo. I came home loaded with gadgets but no Everests.

While you were in Tokyo, my friend from Japan was here JBL'ing in Chicago. Maybe your planes passed each other on the runway.

Glad to hear you had a great time - when's your next trip to the U.S. Maybe we can plan a better gathering than we had time for on your last visit.

Rick

[Regis]

Thank You Ian! For the great photo's and narrative. You've always done such a great job at this. While looking at the photo's, it made me sad that here in the United States, we'd rather be buying cheap Chinese crap than buying American. But the Japanese are die-hard JBL fans (as well as die-hard Harley Davidson fans) and they are very dedicated (much like us) to good sounding systems.

WAF doesn't seem to be as much as a problem as possibly space availability (the mini JBL systems are cute!). Glad they're enjoying it! Too bad we can't see stores like that here (and yes, if more people here actually purchased them, it might be possible that the price would be within a middle class means, but that's a whole 'nuther subject that we're all very familiar with, for many reasons!).:D

[BMWCCA]

But the Japanese are die-hard JBL fans (as well as die-hard Harley Davidson fans) and they are very dedicated (much like us) to good sounding systems.And also, apparently, really crappy motorcycles made with a bunch of Chinese parts. Are we saying the Japanese propensity for vintage USA products is all for show and not for go? How sad. And here I was being jealous of them for the products they have. In reality they're no different than the rich here who are poseurs in nearly everything they do? :crying:

[Ian Mackenzie]

I think it is always nice to share these more adventerous trips.

Glad you guys and gals enjoyed it.

Lets hope Steve Kim our JBL correspondent in Tokyo drops in to say a few words.

I forgot to mention I was interviewed by an Ashi TV reporter and camera crew in a duty free shop on Tuesday afternoon with all my gifts and knick nacks as I was walking out the door.

The focus of the interview was around the effect of the global economic crisis on my holiday. Little did they know the crash in the AUD put the cobb wash on any JBL expenditure.:hmm:

Fortunately reporter was of similar nature to the lovely Kanuka so all I could do is look into her eyes and smile :bouncy:.

Trust me I will be back.

Ian

[Skywave-Rider]

... And here I was being jealous of them for the products they have. ...

You'll see everything there. One trend is vintage (c. 70s) Japanese motorcycles. :D

Glad you made the trip Ian. Enjoyed your blog.

[BMWCCA]

You'll see everything there. One trend is vintage (c. 70s) Japanese motorcycles. :DLet me clarify; when I said "crappy motorcycles made with a bunch of Chinese parts " I meant the Harley-Davidsons. '60s and '70s Japanese bikes are big with Boomers everywhere. Awful to ride in most cases, but collectible nonetheless.

[Skywave-Rider]

I knew precisely what you meant.
From my '07 trip there:
Hahaha.
Beautiful, huh?

[hjames]

I knew precisely what you meant.
From my '07 trip there:
Hahaha.

Oh god - those scarey Kawa triples ... !
Talk about your pocket rocket!
Smokey fast fun ...

ding ding ding ding

[Skywave-Rider]

Heather, I can tell you ride.
Or did in the bad old days.
:D
Ring a ding ding.

[hjames]

Heather, I can tell you ride.
Or did in the bad old days.
:D
Ring a ding ding.



Nah - Ring a ding ding was a Sinatra album ...

ding ding ding ding ... was the sound when you let off the throttle and used engine braking ...

Zerox a proven design!
the 500s Mach III spawned the 750, the 350, and the 250 triple ...

I was actually a Kawa service manager in '76 - circa the Krazee 1000s (4 cycle 4 bangers)

[BMWCCA]

Oh god - those scarey Kawa triples ... !
Talk about your pocket rocket!
Smokey fast fun ...As long as you only went straight!
I recall taking my 500cc BMW in for service in 1971 and they gave me a Mach III to ride. I nearly threw myself off the back leaving the parking lot! Scary. Fast. Scary.

[Ducatista47]

The 500 and 750 triples had another problem. I now call them three cylinder tinnitus generators. At full throttle (not an infrequent setting) , the loudest, most grating bikes I can remember. Even from half a block away.

Clark

[Skywave-Rider]

:)
We ought to start an OT MC.
The HARMANOTMC

[BMWCCA]

The 500 and 750 triples had another problem. I now call them three cylinder tinnitus generators.What did he say? :scoot:



http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c378/BMWCCA1/EsquireSlash5avatar.jpg

[spkrman57]

I bet she wasn't even born in '82~'84 :D

(But I know what you meant ;) )

I almost got married several times while I was overseas......


Ron sends.....;)

[SEAWOLF97]

Mr. Ace Mackenzie combined two of my favorite things in one thread.:bouncy:

speakers & buildings ?

[Titanium Dome]

speakers & buildings ?

ha ha, you so funny, joe :D

[SEAWOLF97]

ha ha, you so funny, joe :D

Oh, OKAY ....my fault, you like grannies too. (isn't there a special psychosis for that ? )

[richluvsound]

Oh, OKAY ....my fault, you like grannies too. (isn't there a special psychosis for that ? )

Its called a Fetish here ;)

Rich

[Steve K]

Hello everyone!
&
Hello Ian!

Firstly, Ian's contacting me prior to his visiting Japan was a pleasant surprise, and afforded me a great opportunity to meet a fellow forum member from another part of the world. I also admired Ian's curiosity driven initiative in tackling what to him must have been a totally strange country, mostly on his own (he forgot to mention about Kanuka during our meetings), taking the rail from Tokyo to Kyoto, Nara, and Hiroshima, where the less adventurous would have just stayed in or around Tokyo in the comfort of a more metropolitan, foreigner-friendly atmosphere, all the more so as he doesn't speak a word of Japanese. Also, I wish I could have spent more time together to show Ian different aspects of life in Tokyo, or perhaps even a relaxing day at a mountain spa, but regrettably I could only hang out on two separate evenings of Japanese meals and sake, and of course, JBL's.

I'd like to expound a little on the state of the audio fans here in Japan, particularly on Ian's assumption in explaining that baby boomers have an impact on audio sales today. In the case of Japan those born in the period between 1946 thru 1950 are heating up Japan's audio market. When these baby boomers were in their high teens and 20's, Japan was in the middle of an unprecedented economic growth period, and even though 'new' industries such as auto and consumer electronics were gaining stature, the best products were still imports. Audio was no exception. High end audio, in those days, meant McIntosh, Marantz, Altecs, Tannoy, and JBL's. But few could afford to buy them, except for the more affluent. Music cafes sprung up all over Japan around this time instead. Some were specialized for classical music, and some catered to jazz fans. JBL's, and to a lesser degree Altecs, found their way into most of the jazz cafes. So the boomers, pure jazz enthusiasts, audio lovers, as well as those just wanting to feel 'American', packed these cafes day and night, experiencing for the first time in their lives pure, unrestrained, sound of JBL speakers. Going forward to the present, the baby boomers are now of retirement age. They've been the force that pulled Japan out of the post-war drudgery and into one of the world's foremost industrial power. Their kids are fully grown with lives of their own. And most importantly, many have earned their retirement pension, after three decades or more of employment to a single employer. With new time and money on their hands, they now have the means to fall back and enjoy life a little. Many are able to afford vintage, large JBL's now, something they never could have been able to in their working and children rearing days. The market is capitalizing on this demographic phenomenon by reintroducing analog players, tube gear, etc, and audio stores are adding 'recycled' products sections.

The above is just a partial explanation for the spark in the audio markets that have mainly occurred in the last ten years or so in Japan. As an interesting aside, the divorce rate among the baby boomers have gone up in recent years as well, giving rise to a new word in the language - loosely translated into English as Ripe Age Divorce! But that's another story.

Anyway, I truly enjoyed having had the chance to meet Ian in Tokyo. He's really a swell guy, and I hope we get to meet again, perhaps in his home territory Down Under!

Steve K
Tokyo, Japan

[Guido]

Steve, thank you for that insight! :)

[Titanium Dome]

Steve, terrific post, and I think your longest!


Hello everyone!


The above is just a partial explanation for the spark in the audio markets that have mainly occurred in the last ten years or so in Japan. As an interesting aside, the divorce rate among the baby boomers have gone up in recent years as well, giving rise to a new word in the language - loosely translated into English as Ripe Age Divorce! But that's another story.


Steve K
Tokyo, Japan

My explosion of JBL occurred largely after my "Ripe Age Divorce." After 28 years of marriage, it brought unprecedented freedom to both parties. My ex-wife is traveling the world, living in her own home, attending events with friends old and new, and working only a part of the year, as the monthly check she gets really pays for everything. So she gets the financial security she craves and she doesn't have to actually live with or do anything for me.

And for me, it's a small price considering everything that's come my way in return. My only problem is I can't come to Japan to see all that JBL heaven yet, because my Korean-born GF is still mad about the pre-WW II occupation.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

Ian

[Ian Mackenzie]

I have been looking at the Harman - Japan range of JBL's and I am trying to get my head around why they seem to have parrallel systems using similar drivers as in the 4800 versus 4338?

If possible it would be great to have some comment from JBL on how this came about and in what ways the systems are differentiated.

[Royster]

I have been looking at the Harman - Japan range of JBL's and I am trying to get my head around why they seem to have parralell systems using similar drivers as in the 4800 versus 4338?

If possible it would be great to have some comment from JBL on how this came about and in what ways the systems are differentiated.

Hi Ian,

A most interesting thread. Regarding your query above, according to Japan's Stereo Sound journal (we have a Chinese edition in HK) and the local JBL sales rep, the blue baffle and Sx800 series are voiced differently and appeals to different enthusiasts, the S-series is more neutral, whereas the Studio series more punchy in the mid bass.

In HK at least, according to the same rep, the blue baffle series out sells the S-series 2 to 1.

Not a definitive answer, I know, but hope it is of some use.

I see if I can translate the articles/reviews comparing the two in Stereo Sound, but it might take a while.

A little bit of semi relevant trivia, and one which the Japanese-reading members might help shed some light on. From 1978 (issue 41) until 2006 (issue 160), there was a column in almost every issue Stereo Sound chronicling a reviewer's odessey with the 4343. It started as a piece roughly translated as "4343 research lab" and concluded in the issue 160 – in piece titled "4343 for a modern age" where the 4343 was modified almost beyond recognition. At the end of the piece, there was contact info and a blurb saying that all the technical documentation from the articles are available from the writer. (http://www.stereosound.co.jp/ssweb/160.php)

For more on Jazz Kissa (Cafes) in Japan:
http://www.sakurasystems.com/jazzcafe.html
http://www.japanimprov.com/yotomo/jazzcafe.html
http://www.jazzkissa.net/

[Ian Mackenzie]

Thankyou Steve and Royster for posting. Much appreciated.

On the topic of the blue baffle studio series the owner manuals hint at some points of interest like location and position of the enclosures.

http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Owner%27s%20Manual/S4800%20OM%20(web).pdf

There is no manual I could find on the 4338 but there is on the 4348 that uses the same woofer.

http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Owner%27s%20Manual/JBL%204348%20om.pdf

I think it is still something that justifies further explanation.

[4313B]

There is no manual I could find on the 4338 but there is on the 4348 that uses the same woofer.4338 Owner's Manual is attached at bottom.

1500FE, 435AL, 045TI in both systems.

The S4800 was developed first and uses the K2-S5800 and SK2-1000 midrange/high frequency horn while the 4338 uses the H4338. The 435AL and 435BE have lower extension on the H4338 horn. Greg uses a modified version of the H4338 in his personal system. That modified version was the prototype for the 1400 Array and SAM1HF horn. The SAM1HF horn also uses the 435AL and 045TI and it is available from any Synthesis Dealer.

The S4800 and 4338 network differences are shown below. Acoustic crossover frequencies are documented as 900 Hz / 8 kHz for the S4800 and 750 Hz / 9 kHz for the 4338. Documented low frequency extension for the S4800 is -6 dB at 55 Hz and for the 4338 is -6 dB at 35 Hz.

.

[Doc Mark]

Greetings, Ian, Steve, and all,

WOW!! What a fantastic and interesting thread!! I've just enjoyed my first cup of Earl Grey tea, and read the entire thing from cover to cover! VERY nice reporting of what must surely have been a very memorable trip to Japan!! Thank you, so very much, for sharing the trip, and the insights gained, with us all!

It is very interesting, but one other long-time hobby that I have, is collecting and refurbishing vintage backpacking and expedition stoves. Stoves like these used to be almost given away, at local swap meets and flea markets. But, now, they are beginning to have massive, world-wide appeal to collectors of every stripe, and prices for things that I bought for pennies on the dollar, many years ago, have shot straight to the moon in recent years!! The Far East has a large group of stove and lantern collectors, and they are very willing to pay top dollar for rare and mint models that they wish to add to their wonderful collections! My friends used to think I was just crazy for having found and rebuilt around 450 vintage stoves, plus lots of lanterns, but now, when they see how much many of those items are commanding, price-wise, they think I've done better than the Stock Market, over the years!!! Here's to all our friends from the Far East, and long my they appreciate fine things, from JBL's to motorcycles, to stoves and lanterns!!!! :applaud::applaud: Thanks, again, for a wonderfully entertaining and educational thread, Ian, and all others that participated!! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[JeffW]

Thanks for chiming in, Steve and Royster. I especially liked the links to the Jazz Kissa articles, very entertaining.

[Ian Mackenzie]

4313B,

Thanks for that analysis. Brilliant!

I dont have the 1500FE woofer data but the S4800 box has somewhat large volume. The -F3 points suggest the 1500FE in the smaller 4338 box was tuned a bit higher while the S4800 was tuned lower.

I never actually compared the S4800 to the 4338 but I did hear the smaller S4600. Both were nice.

Ian

[Ian Mackenzie]

By popular demand....

[Titanium Dome]

Ian

That last beauty looks to be clad in JBL orange. How was her upper midrange?

[Steve Schell]

Ian, dude!

This is quite the remarkable thread. Thank you for your thorough report and fine pictures. I really admire your "Just do it" attitude in regard to your globe trotting adventures. Most of us play it safe and stay in one place almost all the time. The few times I have busted loose and gone somewhere new and far away it has been rewarding in the extreme. All that is necessary is the decision to go... the money is there, or will soon return. The time is there, as the same life awaits your return. The only thing necessary is to pull the ripcord, and you do this without restraint, much to your credit!

Now both you and Don have cruised the Akihabara, which arouses my envy. I have always wanted to visit this audio Disneyland.

Kanuka is a living doll, you dog you. Woof!

[Ducatista47]

Ian, dude!
I really admire your "Just do it" attitude in regard to your globe trotting adventures. Most of us play it safe and stay in one place almost all the time.


Numerous Australians visit my FedEx counter at work. They tell me that while something like ten or fifteen percent of Yanks have been abroad, ninety percent of Australians have. They also corroborate that many live and work elsewhere more or less permanently. I had no idea our cultures were so different.

One thing never seems to change. I have never known or met an Anzac (to also give New Zealand its due) I didn't like. Ian in particular I like a lot, by the way. He's a real prince.

Clark

[Ian Mackenzie]

Hi Steve and Clark,

You are too kind.

Lest we forget Don's visit was perhaps more noble and Rick has also paid a visit to Japan. (where is Don these days?)

Ian

[SEAWOLF97]

Numerous Australians visit my FedEx counter at work. They tell me that while something like ten or fifteen percent of Yanks have been abroad, ninety percent of Australians have.

When we were in VietNam last year, the Aussies were everywhere...its like Hawaii for them ie: only a 6 hour flight and lots of cheap beer.....and yes, I've never met an Aussie that I didnt like or feel like I'd known them 20 years on first meeting.
Have a friend in Sydney who keeps inviting me down, really nice guy who travels to Italy often...friendship started with a 1 tweeter eBay sale. :)

OBTW: they are getting hammered ...100AUD=62USD as of last week..:(

(Ian's pix sure bring back memories of R&R in Tokyo - Xmas '69 (and Taipei,Hong Kong,Bangkok & Manila too))

[Ian Mackenzie]

The local Reserse banks decision to reduce interest rates 1% has effected the exchange rate. This time last year it was in the 90's.

I dont think the exchange rate or distance stops people travelling, We have plenty of American back packers and London has always been popular as a travel destination.

I would rather spend money travelling than on Ebay.

Ian

[saeman]

Hi Ian:

Thanks for the continued posting of your pics. Many of them are familiar from my recent visit although we were there in January and the weather was not as nice as you recently had. I'm glad you had time to visit Dynamic audio in Akihabara. I recall 7 floors with the cheap Radio Shack stuff on one and the quality going up with each stop of the elevator. Of course the new Everest was on 7 and I had a chance to listen to them for short time.

I hope to make a return trip next year if time and money permit.

Rick

[robertbartsch]

I've been to Asia 33 times on business now and I just returned from Malaysia last week. I have been to Japan's Akihabara (??) once when I lived in Japan (Toyko Marriott) for several months in the 2003 time frame.

Back then, the dollar was so week against the yen you could not afford to buy much.

Anyway, I've seen a few Japanese homes and I wonder how they could fit the larger JBL systems inside. Some of their appartments make NYC appartments look spacious.

Does anyone know why JBL does not sell consumer speakers in the United States of America? I have cobbled togeather a few systems based on professional series drivers and networks which have turned out well but I assume JBL could make money on this if the marketing was done correctly.

Does anyone know if the components sold in Japan are manufactured in the United States? Wow, that would be a revalation!

[4313B]

Does anyone know if the components sold in Japan are manufactured in the United States? Wow, that would be a revalation!The only components showing on the Harman Japan website are the 1500AL, 435BE and 045BE, all of which are manufactured in the U.S.A. by JBL Professional and then sold to JBL Consumer and Harman Japan. Lower quality transducers are now manufactured in Mexico along with many JBL loudspeaker systems. Some transducers are sourced from other manufacturers.

[Ian Mackenzie]

On the bullet train I passed through a number of areas and will post some pics of properties.

Its hard to make a generalisation on the size of rooms systems the K2 and DD66000 are used in over in Japan because we dont know much about the properties of the prospective buyers.

It would seem that due to population density and perhaps building codes fitting in a pair of 4350's would be a squeeze.

On that score I found the bars were tiny often like a train carriage..narrow and no more then a few yards long.

The Jazz bars were more like cafes's, we were no more then 3 metres from the 4344Mk11s and 4-5 metres in the case of the bar with the 4343's.

It was kind of cute and I think the sound of those systems definately added to the jazz feel of the place. in fact on googling it would seem the Japanese worship the 4343's for their jazz. The sound of 4343 system with the Aleph 2's was surreal and I would highly recommend that combinaton to any 4343 owner.

I recall when I heard John Nebels 4343's side by side with the 4435's I preferred the 4343 on jazz recordings while John preferred the 4435's for his classical recordings.

Ian

[4313B]

I never actually compared the S4800 to the 4338 but I did hear the smaller S4600. Both were nice.I put all three into the Technical Reference section for those who are interested in such things.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Excellent.

Did the brochure arrive?

My immpediate impression is maintaining a narrower enclosure width wasa key design goal for the S4800 and the S4600 hence the 900 hertz crossover point and the smaller horns.

The S4600 was one of the smoothest responses I have seen and it sounds that way.

[4313B]

Yes, the brochure arrived. That was very nice of you. Thanks. :)

[Ian Mackenzie]

I think its a really great brochure, the pics sell the product even if you can't read Japanese.

I guess we will both have to take classes!:)

Ian

[Ian Mackenzie]

Numerous Australians visit my FedEx counter at work. They tell me that while something like ten or fifteen percent of Yanks have been abroad, ninety percent of Australians have. They also corroborate that many live and work elsewhere more or less permanently. I had no idea our cultures were so different.

One thing never seems to change. I have never known or met an Anzac (to also give New Zealand its due) I didn't like. Ian in particular I like a lot, by the way. He's a real prince.

Clark


I wonder what it would cost the Fedex a slab of VB over to you?

I reckon it would get there short of a few tinnies!

Ian

Ian

[jack_bouska]

I was recently privileged to be selected as the 2009 distinguished lecturer by the Society of Exploration Geophysicists, and I spent the first half of this year visiting a few dozen cities spread across four continents (see my itinerary at: http://tinyurl.com/oeesqe )

One of the destinations on my tour was Tokyo, Japan, (first week of July) where I had a chance to visit the Akabara district, and (by pure chance) audition the DD6000 in the same shop as Ian. I am including a photo, where you can see that one year later, the line-up of speakers on display hasn't changed much. It was interesting to hear the units, and more interesting to inspect the horns up close, and physically touch them (to check for curvature and inflection points). This audition and inspection confirmed some of my suspicions about the design, and I will post more when I get a chance (stupidly busy at work, as usual). For now, a picture is worth a thousand words,
Jack Bouska

[4313B]

It was interesting to hear the units, and more interesting to inspect the horns up close, and physically touch them (to check for curvature and inflection points). This audition and inspection confirmed some of my suspicions about the design, and I will post more when I get a chance.G.T. finally got a pair of Everest II's a couple weeks ago as well as a pair of K2-S9900's. :applaud:

Here they are waiting for the truck to take them home.

[BMWCCA]

G.T. finally got a pair of Everest II's a couple weeks ago as well as a pair of K2-S9900's. Very cool. But isn't this sort of like saying Ferdinand Piëch finally got a Bugatti Veyron to drive home? :dont-know :D

Obviously it's not the first chance GT has had to spend some quality time with those big beautiful beasts, but any chance we can get a casual review/comparison after he's had some time with them in the comfort of his home? Does the custom Array system in his living room now go into storage?

Inquiring minds . . .

Thanks.

[Titanium Dome]

A poster over at AVS wrote of the DD66000:


I found they still had some the grating sound typical of JBL units.

The attempts Ive heard that seek to describe them as an alternative to full range monitors are simply wishful thinking.

Im not saying they are a bad speaker, far from it, they're just not what certain sectors have claimed.

I rebuked his statement as prejudicial, and he looked down his nose at me. He said, "No I'm not you are." So I'm going to say, "No I'm not YOU are."
:bash:

Actually, I'm not ready to get kicked off over there, so I'll chill for a while.

This is such a typical attitude among the elitist audio set in North America, that it's no wonder JBL really focuses its top line gear elsewhere.

[4313B]

it's no wonder JBL really focuses its top line gear elsewhere.Yep.

[boputnam]

I was recently privileged to be selected as the 2009 distinguished lecturer by the Society of Exploration Geophysicists...Congratulations! A very esteemed recognition by your peers.

I'm on the board of trustees in the "other" SEG (Society of Economic Geologists) ;) and we have similar programs which recognize contributions akin to your work. These programs encourage new and inventive research and are especially critical to bringing students to the profession.

Congratulations on your achievement. :applaud:

[Valentin]

have the anechoic curves of the everest dd66000 been posted in the forum

we have the k2s5800, k2s9800, k2s9900, Array1400, 4600, 4800 etc etc

we have the whitepapers and many graphs but no spinorama (spatial measurements) for the everests


GT should be very happy to have them finaly in home

[Valentin]

This audition and inspection confirmed some of my suspicions about the design, and I will post more when I get a chance (stupidly busy at work, as usual). For now, a picture is worth a thousand words,
Jack Bouska

what were you findings

[Fangio]

it's no wonder JBL really focuses its top line gear elsewhere
Not in Europe. Apparently Harman could not afford a regular exibition stand in the IFA halls in Berlin anymore. Even less to rent a 2/3 hall, as in the years before. Instead they were tenting in a corner of the open air area, restricted the admittance to dealers only and told everyone they were trying "a new trade fair strategy".


... would love to hear S4600's soon, maybe I get a chance at the IFA this year
So, nothing to report this time. Oh well.

[BMWCCA]

Instead they were tenting in a corner of the open air area, restricted the admittance to dealers only and told everyone they were trying "a new trade fair strategy".

Two points come to mind:

1. At least they were shuttling their dealers to-and-from the show in style!

2. At least you have dealers.

:D

—Man, that new 7-series BMW sure doesn't photograph well! :barf: