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Doc Mark
09-22-2008, 02:47 PM
Greetings, Friends,

Just got back up on the mountain from my trip down to San Diego. As an aside, whilst down there, I went to a local swap meet, and found an absolultely LOVELY pair of Warfdale three-way cabinets!! Danged near perfect, and I was sorely tempted.... But, hey, I'm a JBL Man, and don't have room for another brand, no matter how nice, in my "audio heart"!! ;):D

Anyway, on my way back home, I stopped at our local Guitar Center, just to see what they had to offer for both 3-way, and 4-way electronic crossovers. Looks like the first thing they always offer is something from Behringer. I told the salesman that I'd heard some very bad things about items offered by that brand, and his comment was, "Yeah, we get a lot of them back as returns due to defective performance. But, you get a lot of bang for the buck, when they work"! Didn't fill me with enthusiasm, Friends!! :blink:

Next, he showed me some dbx 234 units, which are selling for $200. If I buy two of them, for $400 of course, I could then use them as mono-4-way systems, and can then be ready to quad amp my JBL stuff, when I get time to play with it. What are your thoughts on this unit, Friends? The salesman told me they are built rock-solid, and that they have been very dependable for GC. He likes them, very much, for the money. He did say that Ashley was outstanding, as were units from Rane, but had nothing in stock to show me.

I'm thinking that, for $400, if they are dependable and versatile, two 234's (w/ quarter inch jack setup) should be just the ticket for me. Any thoughts, comments, reviews, or other suggestions will be gratefully appreciated! Thanks, very much, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

P.S. The new stuff sure makes my old Crown VFX-2A look like a dinosaur, that's for sure!! :o::D

Baron030
09-22-2008, 03:37 PM
Hi Doc

I would recommend the Ashly XR4001.
Itís got the best bang for the buck.
I am very pleased with mine in my own quad amplified 4 way.
Itís to easy to set up right and it sounds great.

Baron030:)

Doc Mark
09-22-2008, 06:29 PM
Evening, Baron030,

Thanks, very much! When checking price, it looks like the Ashly unit sells for about $425, sometimes with free shipping. That's very similar to the price of the needed TWO dbx234 units, and I like the fact that the Ashly's have a five year full warranty, whilst the 234 have a two year warranty. Plus, the simplicity of only hooking up one system, instead of two, is attractive to me. Now, to find a good one, for a good price. I'm not ready to spring, just yet, but I might be ready in a fairly short time! ;):D Thanks, again, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

jblbgw_man
09-23-2008, 04:29 PM
I always found the DBX crossovers harsh sounding in their HF, I liked the BSS FDS-360 which was somewhat cleaner in it's sound, the BSS unit uses frequency cards that have to be populated with the right value R/C's for your specific crossover frequency where as the DBX was a little more convinient with front panel selectable frequency BUT the sound difference was well worth the effort..... my 2 cents worth.

Doc Mark
09-23-2008, 07:24 PM
Evening, JBLBGW_Man,

Thanks, very much, for your thoughts and suggestion! Much appreciated. I've not heard of that unit before. Who makes it? Is it current stuff, or vintage? Is it a 4 way, stereo unit? That's what I'm hoping to use for the upcoming project. I'll Google the numbers you posted, and see what pops up. Thanks, again, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

P.S. WOW! I just checked the prices of that unit, and I'm afraid it's way out of my league, unfortunately!! I'm looking for something that would do what needs to be done, for less than $500. Looks like a pair of those units, run as 4-way mono units, would cost me more than $1,200, which is definitely not in the cards right now. I would imagine that my home system would not be too impressive to real audiophiles, but Sweet Bride and I sure like it, as do most of those who hear it. But, it would never satisfy someone who is a true "golden ear", which it sounds like you might be. I'd LOVE to be one, too, but my ears aren't up to it, nor is my pocketbook!! Yikes!! More power to those that can go there, though! : )

jblbgw_man
09-23-2008, 10:36 PM
P.S. WOW! I just checked the prices of that unit, and I'm afraid it's way out of my league, unfortunately!! I'm looking for something that would do what needs to be done, for less than $500. Looks like a pair of those units, run as 4-way mono units, would cost me more than $1,200, which is definitely not in the cards right now. I would imagine that my home system would not be too impressive to real audiophiles, but Sweet Bride and I sure like it, as do most of those who hear it. But, it would never satisfy someone who is a true "golden ear", which it sounds like you might be. I'd LOVE to be one, too, but my ears aren't up to it, nor is my pocketbook!! Yikes!! More power to those that can go there, though! : )

Hi Doc, did'nt mean to scare you, I have 2 units, one I picked up second hand via ebay for around AU$200 the other was old stock but NIB and got that for around AU$400 from a BSS agent in London via ebay as well, they do come up on ebay occasionally and in my humble opinion are worth the wait .... here is a link to the brochure http://www.bssaudio.com/product_downloads/Datasheets/Fds360ds.pdf and here for the manual http://www.bssaudio.com/product_downloads/User_Manuals/fds360um.pdf ................. good luck with whatever you choose.

Doc Mark
09-24-2008, 08:01 AM
Morning, JBLBGW_Man,

Hey, I feel better, now that I've had a good sleep! That $1,200 price for a pair of those, DID rather "get my attention", though!! :blink::blink:

I think that the Ashly unit will do what I need it to do, especially if it is nice and quiet in going about it's business. While I would dearly love to wait for something that might be a little better, I've been "waiting" for more than 20 years, and it's time to get this show on the road!! :bouncy::D:bouncy:;) Now that I finally have all the needed components, actually setting in my living room, it's hard to be too patient. The only thing that is now holding me back is a lack of time, right now. But, sooner, or later, I'll have the time to begin this long-awaited project, and when that happens, I'd love to already have my crossover in hand, ready to go!!

In the mean time, I'll most certainly keep an eye out for a pair of those units. But, I'm thinking that the Ashly is going to get the nod, and that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush!! ;):D:applaud:

Thanks, again, for your great suggestion, and I'll keep you posted as to how all this eventually turns out. Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

SMKSoundPro
09-24-2008, 06:33 PM
Another thread with perfect timing!

Doc, I am doing the same thing here. I have two dbx 234's to use for 4-way, and was wondering about the Ashley 4001.

Downstairs in the big ballroom, I am using two Peavey V4X x-overs and they seem fine for the music and voice down there. But for my 4-way shop stereo I am looking around to see what else is available.

Price is always an issue. I saw a BSS mono 4-way on the bay. Don't now much about them, but know of their good reputation by older deaf pro-sound guys.

I am very interested in learning more about analogue 4-way x-overs, and will stay tuned to your collective advice.

Thank You!

Scotty.

What about the Rane AC24? Anyone had any experiences?

Doc Mark
09-24-2008, 09:02 PM
Hey, Scotty,

I have pretty much decided on the Ashly unit, as it comes highly recommended, and I think, for the money spent, offers everything that I want, or need. I hope to be springing for mine in the near future, so if you want my thoughts on it, I'll be happy to pass them along. I have enough JBL goodies that, even if I have to jury-rig the backs of the 4333's, I can have some fun with the Ashly, and see how it works! Neat that you're considering the same unit, Mate!

By the way, Sweet Bride works in Anchorage, now and then, and I get to come along, once in a while. Next time I'm headed up your way, I'll give you a shout, and maybe we can get together, have some lunch, and "talk JBL"! What do you think? Talk to you later, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

SMKSoundPro
09-24-2008, 09:17 PM
Sure Doc. Bring it on!

I work at a downtown nightclub that's mainly gay and lesbian called "Mad Myrna's." Right next door to the Sheraton. Great place. Great people. Everyone welcome. I'll show you my JBL rig and all vintage pieces and parts. My shop is here above the main bar building.

I'm looking at a 4001 on ebay right now. We'll see how much it goes for.

Scotty.

Doc Mark
09-25-2008, 05:50 AM
Hey, Scotty,

Great! I'll give you a shout, next time it looks like I might be making a trip up that way. We really love Alaska, and would move up there in a heartbeat, if it weren't to expensive to come and go, especially during the winter. Our business requires Sweet Bride to travel quite a bit, and living up there just won't work out, at least for now. Maybe someday.... Thanks for the invitation to visit! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

boputnam
09-25-2008, 01:46 PM
I work at a downtown nightclub ... called "Mad Myrna's." Hey, Scotty - is that where you had installed that really big DIY project? How's that sounding now-a-days, by the way...

SMKSoundPro
09-26-2008, 11:49 AM
Yes Bo, that is where the big rig is installed. I drive it every Friday night for our drag/variety show. The room is stuffed with a 150-200 people at small 4 top cocktail table, and SRO all around. They just suck all of the sound up.

On some tunes, I can lean on the rig a little, and really clean out the cobwebs, if you know what I mean!

I took the Ramsa wr-4412 desk apart on Monday and finally changed the internal jumpers back to their default position, where Aux 1 & 2 are prefader. All 4 auxes were post fader, before. Stage wedges on aux1, verb drive on aux 2, aux3- blank, aux 4 drives separate rane sac22 x-over set at 80hz for crowns to 8-18's. I can go pre or post on aux 3&4. I have kept it on post, lately. This is as Mike Caldwell had suggested. It gives me good control on the sub stuff.

I chewed up one 2240-18 cone in the beginning. Cone jumped out of the gap, and never re-entered square-ly. I belive it was a poor glue job at the spider to basket. After recone, all is fine.

The rig is used on Tues, Thurs and Sat for karaoke. I set it up and let our KJ drive it. She is VERY hip-hop oriented. I always look at her knob settings the following morning and see where she turns the bottom end down a bit.

All in all, everything works very well, I believe. I am looking to buy a couple a MA3600 for the subs. Well actually one 3600 for the subs. I can run all 18's (2 ohm load) on one 3600, which would free up the two 2400's for another rack for another rig. Then the amps would be 3600 for 8-18's, two 24x6 for the 15's and horns, and a 600 for the 4 bullets.

I am still using the Peavey V4x x-overs and they seem fine for this use.

I Hope I answered your questions?

Scotty.

Doc Mark
09-26-2008, 05:35 PM
Greetings, All,

Hey, Scotty, that system looks like it could be the "JBL Death Star" in the next Star Wars episode!!! Death by JBL-ation!! :blink::blink::bouncy::bouncy::applaud:

Friends, can anyone recommend a good, reputable mailorder house, from whom I could buy my Ashly crossover? I would prefer one which is a list Ashly dealer, in truth. All suggestions will be most gratefully appreciated! Thanks, very much, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

boputnam
09-27-2008, 11:49 AM
I have kept (he Aux) on post (Fader), lately. This is as Mike Caldwell had suggested. It gives me good control on the sub stuff. Yeah, it will also give you better control on the foldback - both Mike and I were urging this.

You seem pretty able with the innards of that Ramsa desk. Check the block diagram and see if there is a snip / solder option for changing the Aux's to post-EQ (this will be on each strip). That would be the ticket, Scotty. That way, when you are adjusting the strip EQ's for tonality, it will affect foldback, too. This is the preferred routing for smaller clubs. In smaller clubs, if the room is having resonance issues, they will be the same on the stage and it's best to try and cut them at the source (rather than try and EQ them out of the entire room which invariably is only marginally effective). I have modified all my smaller consoles this way - it helps a great deal.

:)

SMKSoundPro
09-27-2008, 03:12 PM
Thanks for comeback.

Yes, I have been in and out of both my Ramsa desks (4412 & 4416) and I looked at the post eq jumpers and thought and thought and thought some more.

Right now, all aux's are jumpered for post eq.

I considered changing the 6 mic channels to aux pre eq.

Decided to leave them as they are. All aux's post eq. A change in the strip(channel) eq equals a change on the whole kit and kaboodle.

Simple.

Though, as I was resoldering jumpers, I was thinking about your little Midas desk you showed in an earlier post that you playing your mouth organ at some New Year's Eve gig. I have looked at those little Midas desks and wanted your feedback of them. Features you like, and dislike.

The ramsa mixer is not the be-all, end-all but rather a means to an ends. They are easy to operate for most, flexible in routing and don't sound too bad. Certainly good enough for my, and many other's, purposes. Just get used to the backwards inserts. I grew up in the audio world knowing pin 3 was ALWAYS hot. Then someone changed that. Go figure.

Scotty.

boputnam
09-27-2008, 04:06 PM
The ramsa mixer is not the be-all, end-all but rather a means to an ends. They are easy to operate for most, flexible in routing and don't sound too bad. Certainly good enough for my, and many other's, purposes. Just get used to the backwards inserts. I run into those Ramsa's not infrequently. They are passable. Biggest complaint is the Pin3 hot inserts (I carry two-dozen turn-arounds so I can re-route my outboard rack); second biggest is the lack of headroom. I think the mains buss clips at +9dB. Yuck. Cannot handle transients. Third biggest hate is the mic-pre's and strip EQ's. But beyond that, they're fun! :p


I grew up in the audio world knowing pin 3 was ALWAYS hot. Then someone changed that. Go figure.That's why we have standards - so someone can change them...


I have looked at those little Midas desks and wanted your feedback of them. Features you like, and dislike.That picture was the Venice 160. It's my smallest - mostly for sidecar or small rehearsal stuff, but I've had it out plenty. A good little desk - only 8 mono and 4 multi-channels (these don't have inserts). The multi-channels are weird - they have 1 mic (pad) and 2 line inputs (stereo pot), each. You can run both at the same time, but it's tricky. I've also got the 240 (16 mono and 4 multi).

The Venice console is Midas' lowest entrant, but has good sounding mic pre's, and LOTS of headroom - +22dB on the mono inputs, and +25dB on the Mains buss outputs. So, with the right gain structure you almost never clip.

Venice have 2 Aux and 2 Monitor sends. The Aux can be switched pre/post fader (global); both are pre-EQ (but both can be mod'd for post-EQ - simple snip / solder). There are 2 FX sends (post fader). There are 2 FX returns (no EQ). There are no stereo returns other than the multi- strips. Four Groups. Inserts on Groups and Mix buss. There is a Mains "B" output, switchable mono or stereo, switchable pre- or post-fader. There are L/R Speaker (Control Room) outs, pot on working surface by headfone pot, pfl pot and the pfl / afl switch. These desks are hella compact and great sounding.

SMKSoundPro
09-27-2008, 06:42 PM
I just searched for any used 160's and found just a couple. Obviously people don't let them go to often.

Great size and a pedigree name.

I will keep searching for one!

Thank you!

Scotty.

Baron030
09-29-2008, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by Doc
Friends, can anyone recommend a good, reputable mail order house, from whom I could buy my Ashly crossover?

Hi Doc

I ordered my Ashly and 5 crowns amps from www.fullcompass.com (http://www.fullcompass.com).
And I found full compass to be a fair and honest company.

They are not like the one of those jerks that crunches your credit card and then feeds you BS for the next 3 months about how your order will be coming in any day now...:banghead:

And as I recall, they normally don't keep Ashly XR4001s in stock, so they will have to order it directly from Ashly. But, still I don't recall them taking more then a week to 10 days to send it to me.
So, I think their service was pretty good.

Baron030:)

Doc Mark
09-29-2008, 10:21 PM
Good Evening, Baron030,

Thanks, very much! It appears that the going mail order price for an Ashly XR-4001 is $425, with free shipping, most of the time. That sounds pretty good to me. I do note that, as you say, Fullcompass does not keep that model in stock, and it's a special order, usually shipping in between 2-3 weeks. I may give them a call, just to see what they have to say about that.

You may have already told me this, and if so, I apologize, sincerely: What have you done to the speaker in your Avatar??? It looks like you are using a slot tweeter on top, under which is a 2380A? Is that right? What else do you have in that box, what size is it, what tuning, and is it all crossed over actively? Please post a larger photo of your neat speaker, and some more information about it, or the link where such can be found! Thanks, very much, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

Baron030
09-30-2008, 03:22 PM
Hi Doc

Wow, I canít believe how time flies, it seems like only yesterday when I started my Drew Danielís inspired project.
But, itís been over two years now.

Here is a link the start of the project:
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=11664

Over the years, I have made other posts involving all things related to this project.
So, you may want to do a search on my previous postings.
Who knows you might find something useful for your own project.

Believe it or not, I am still not finished with this project.
The bass reflex port tubes never got glued in and after a few loud blasts of the old ď1812Ē.
I think the 2226 cones have finally loosened up to the point where I think I may need to check the port tuning again.
Fortunately, this time I got a copy of CLIO Lite to help me this time.
And then there are some passive EQ circuits on the 2012h and the 2382a/2446h that I am still experimenting with.
Someday, I am going to break down and buy some software to help model these passive EQ circuits.
Building these passive EQ circuits by trial and error alone takes a long time.
But, I am learning a lot and having some fun in the process.

Well, I canít say that my system has reached perfection yet.
But, I do feel that I am getting very close.
Just 4 Ė 2242s away from having the ultimate home systemÖ

Baron030:)

Doc Mark
09-30-2008, 06:17 PM
Hey, Baron030,

I've just read through your thread on building those Bad Boys, and I have to join the throngs and say, "Well done, Mate"!!! :applaud::applaud: You did a wonderful job crafting that system, and when I think about your having done it IN AN APARTMENT, I'm shocked!!! Again, very well done!! :applaud::applaud:

Actually, when you think about it, a good, honest, 40HZ bottom end, especially with some true authority, is nothing at which to snear! Look at the myriad L100 users that have been quite satisfied with 45HZ bottom end! :D However, I do like your plan to, possibly, add some 2242H's in the future, if you feel the need for it. I've got one of those drivers, too, and hope to use it, someday, just to see what it can add to my L300's, or my 4333 project, both of which use 2235H's on the bottom end.

Thanks, very much, for sharing your project with me! I loved watching your progress, and even though I don't know you, am proud of you for getting such nice results!! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

boputnam
10-01-2008, 10:33 AM
OT, but...


...I found Full Compass (http://www.fullcompass.com/) to be a fair and honest company.They have become one of my most go-to sources. George Koury (x114) takes good care of me. Many of my transactions are email, only, in the dead-of-night after gigs. Never been a problem or lack of response. He'll give good quotes, too.


And as I recall, they normally don't keep Ashly XR4001s in stock, so they will have to order it directly from Ashly.I believe Ashly will drop-ship, so timing is as-if Full Compass did stock Ashly.

Doc Mark
10-01-2008, 06:45 PM
Howdy, Bo,

Thanks, very much! I'll certainly give them a call, and ask for George, as per your recommendation. I'm still not ready to get into this, but I figure that, if I already have the crossover in hand, as I do my amps, then hey, I'm "almost" there, right??!! :D:applaud:;) Thanks, again, to all who offered your opinions and suggestions! Much appreciated! I believe that the Ashly 4-way will do most anything that I want in such a critter, from a 2 to 3, to 4-way setup. I look forward to having the time to mess with this, once the crossover is here. Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

Doc Mark
10-03-2008, 02:41 PM
Hey, Bo, Baron030, and all,

I just finished a very nice phone conversation with George Koury, of Full Compass, and he was exactly as you had told me he would be, Bo, polite, knowledgeable, and professional! He remembers you well, Sir, and spoke highly of you, too. So, thanks to the recommendations of you guys, and others, I've just ordered my Ashly crossover, and George offered it a very nice price, too. My advice to folks that order from Full Compass, is to call and ask for George. As has been stated, he will take very good care of you, and offer a good price for whatever you are seeking! I'm so glad you recommended him, and the company, to me!! Thanks, very much, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

johnaec
10-04-2008, 07:11 AM
This girl actually screwed up her subject and listed an XR4001 as a XR2001 on eBay with a ridicuously low BIN price, (also a bunch of other stuff at crazy prices - she obviously wasn't doing her homework), but showed pics for the XR4001. Even talking to her, I couldn't figure out which one she actually had. Figuring "what's to lose?" I went ahead and ordered it. It came yesterday, is perfect, and it's even the new gray-face XR4001. Now I've finally got all the parts for starting work on my "dream" custom home system - more details later...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220280695615&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=012

Sometimes being it the right place at the right time works - 'just have to start looking at this unit... I myself almost went for a new one at list price, but wasn't ready yet. If my "dream" system doesn't eventually come to pass, (other factors involved), components will be offered here first, with expected price savings, ('just don't hold your breath for now...). If it weren't for some of these deals, I'd still be on L-65's or something...

John

Doc Mark
10-04-2008, 03:34 PM
Hello, John,

Outstanding fine, Mate!! Well done!! :applaud::applaud: I will look forward to reading your report, when your Ashly arrives! The one you got looks very clean, and could have been very little used. Again, way to go, and have fun with your new Ashly! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc