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View Full Version : Krylon 1613 Semi-Flat discontinued from the retail market



brutal
09-21-2008, 10:12 AM
Fark!

Evidently it's still available through industrial supply. Word is that Grainger carries it. Some BS about EPA VOC regulations caused Krylon to re-formulate the product. The replacement sheen ("satin") is much more glossy and doesn't even come close to the 1613 semi-flat which, IMHO, is almost a dead ringer for JBL OEM. Halfway through a refinish on a 4311B pair and I ran out...

bigyank
09-21-2008, 10:24 AM
Try:

http://www.filmtools.com/krseflblsppa.html

Yank

brutal
09-21-2008, 02:40 PM
Thanks,

Grainger is local to me and I have access to a business account there...

mbottz
09-23-2008, 12:29 PM
I use almost any brand of flat black available, But the trick is to topcoat it when finished with Deft Satin or Semi-Gloss Clear finish. The Deft product dries quickly and evens out the overspray. It is even available in Single arisol cans, and Quart / Gallons for those that have a pro spray setup. I would even use it over the Krylon for the very best OEM style finish.

mb

Mr. Widget
09-23-2008, 12:37 PM
I use almost any brand of flat black available, But the trick is to topcoat it when finished with Deft Satin or Semi-Gloss Clear finish.Two layers of dissimilar paint with possible adhesion issues? I guess you haven't had any problems so it can work, but how about dust? Semi-flat black will hide tiny dust particles, a clear coat won't.

Those concerns aside, how is the Deft coating's surface toughness? The Krylon's is rather fragile.



Widget

louped garouv
09-23-2008, 12:54 PM
do you suggest duratex? or something of the like?

http://www.acrytech.com/store.asp?pid=14119

rdgrimes
09-23-2008, 02:24 PM
I placed an order with FilmTools. They report they are out of the Krylon but expect to have more in a week or so.

mbottz
09-23-2008, 02:54 PM
Two layers of dissimilar paint with possible adhesion issues? I guess you haven't had any problems so it can work, but how about dust? Semi-flat black will hide tiny dust particles, a clear coat won't.

Those concerns aside, how is the Deft coating's surface toughness? The Krylon's is rather fragile.



Widget

The trick with any tiny dust particles left in the flat black is to just sand them out with 600 to 1000 grit wet dry. Sand dry though. Once you apply the deft they dissapear and the resulting finish will dry to a perfect "Factory Like OEM" coat of paint.

The deft product is a Laquer based product, Thats why it dries to the touch in less than usually 3 to 5 minutes. I have never had any problems, ever, probally because of the fast drying time. The dust does not have enough time to settle before it is dry. If you see any dust it will wipe right off. The surface dries quite hard and durable. Should you wish to build up several coats sanding between them, you can even polish to a very nice "piano finish" type shine. Here is a partial picture of a Kenwood supreme cabinet I built that is polished to a very nice shine.

Once you use it you will be a believer.

mb

Mr. Widget
09-23-2008, 10:10 PM
The deft product is a Laquer based product, Thats why it dries to the touch in less than usually 3 to 5 minutes.

Once you use it you will be a believer. I did not realize that it was a lacquer based product. You don't have to sell me on the bennefits of quick drying lacquer. I love the stuff... that is why Krylon is so much nicer to use than Rustoleum. Krylon is also a lacquer.


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brutal
09-24-2008, 09:38 AM
I did not realize that it was a lacquer based product. You don't have to sell me on the bennefits of quick drying lacquer. I love the stuff... that is why Krylon is so much nicer to use than Rustoleum. Krylon is also a lacquer.


Widget

RE: Lacquer.

Which, according to Krylon, is why it got pulled from retail. I'd expect all lacquer based paints will soon be history in the retail market.

scott fitlin
09-26-2008, 11:28 PM
RE: Lacquer.

Which, according to Krylon, is why it got pulled from retail. I'd expect all lacquer based paints will soon be history in the retail market.BUT if YOU JUST gotta have a lacquer finish, look to the automotive paints, still some lacquears for custom finishes available, AND 3 Stage Acryliccs that DO have that LACQUER GLASS SHINE! More coats sprayed, sanded to perfection, and lots of clear coats will give you what u seek!

Thats what the boys in LA use for their highly custom paintjobs for their LOWRIDERS!

brutal
10-21-2008, 09:29 PM
Grainger dumped all their 1613 stock and switched to another product. None available in a 9-state region. :biting:

After some additional research, I found a group of Mustang enthusiasts covering this same issue. Seems the 1613 was a dead ringer for OEM Ford under-hood semi-flat black. One of them wrote to Krylon and got a response from a product manager. I've since contacted the same fellow and to make a long story short:

He's sending me a free case of the old 1613 to finish my current project. I only expected or needed a can to finish. Easier for them to ship I guess. :applaud:

He had previously submitted a request to their lab to re-create the semi-flat sheen in their new formula paint and he's sending me a can to test.
Once they receive response back from all the testers, they'll be marketing the new semi-flat in stores. Sounds like they've gotten a lot of consumer backlash and are resolving it. Kudos to Sherwin Williams (parent co.) for stepping up. :cheers:

It's still not the quick-dry lacquer, but it's a worthy compromise.

FWIW, I tried Rustoleum Painter's Touch flat-black and while it was close, I didn't care for the unevenness in sheen I experienced.

I found an online source that had stock, but two (6 can) cases with shipping would have run me about $100.

Revolt
04-05-2010, 07:44 AM
the qualities you were talking about with krylon flt blk ... drys fast, even finish has been made more difficult by Krylon's new formulation that has higher levels of solvent and lower levels of pigment. The best paint i have ever found is Ironlak (Australia) montana hardcore (spain) and belton molotow (germany) these paints all have a nitro based solvent that drys almost on contact (10-30 seconds!) and the highest levels of pigment u can find which give u a even clean finish that montana hardcore guarantees for 15 years to never fade or breakdown. these are all available in the u.s. through www.oinkartltd.com (http://www.oinkartltd.com) , www.33third.com (http://www.33third.com) and www.artprimo.com (http://www.artprimo.com) . I am a graffiti artist that does on average 7 art gallery showings a year and a large number of murals. If u want to see what they can do check me out at http://revolt316.blogspot.com ...... hope this helps

Mr. Widget
04-05-2010, 08:55 AM
Thanks for the heads up... I'll look into those paints.

Off Topic... how did you find this thread? Googling Krylon? Or do you have an interest in audio as well?


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toddalin
04-05-2010, 09:39 AM
This goes well beyond JBL.

We use this same color for the interior restoration of vintage Corvette dashboards and parts. The new satin is not as good a match.

At one time I had many cans of 1613 on the shelves, but no more.

The Rustoleum is crap. It leaves an uneven finish with fish eyes.

Mr. Widget
04-05-2010, 09:54 AM
The Rustoleum is crap. It leaves an uneven finish with fish eyes.Agreed!

I have never had good results with Rustoleum... it is too bad that Krylon has had to reformulate and have been unsuccessful in many of the new formulations.


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BMWCCA
04-05-2010, 05:51 PM
Anyone tried U-pol satin black? (U-pol #UP0801)

http://www.tcpglobal.com/images/UPO8XX.jpg
Works great in automotive and motorcycle restoration applications. Most prefer it to Krylon (which I happen to like very much and sad to see the semi-flat go away).

Available here but I have no experience with the seller: http://www.tcpglobal.com/AutoBodyDepot/ItemDetail.aspx?ItemNo=UPO+801

Manufacturer's product information sheet in pdf here: http://www.u-pol.com/datasheets/tds/PCSB-TDS-US.pdf

Tim Rinkerman
04-05-2010, 06:08 PM
I have had OUTSTANDING results with Rustoleum "Painters Choice" gloss black, semi-gloss black, and flat black. I use tons of the semi gloss black to paint all sorts of rigging fixtures and fabrications. If you have "fisheyes", it is due to improper surface prep, not the paint. I have been really impressed how well these finishes hold up, even outdoors.
The semi-gloss black is identical to many matte but not flat black finishes.

lgvenable
04-05-2010, 06:18 PM
Fisheyes are due to surface contamination potentially. You might be able to wipe the surface with a surfactant to get rid of them, but they are typically due to oily contaminants; like lemon oils;) etc>> if you ever wiped down the speaker surface.
Larry

Mr. Widget
04-05-2010, 10:03 PM
I have had OUTSTANDING results with Rustoleum "Painters Choice" gloss black, semi-gloss black, and flat black.I'm not sure I have ever seen "painter's choice"... is it an aerosol enamel?

The common Rustoleum aerosol enamel never gave me a finish I could live with... I rarely use spray cans at all anyway, but the Krylon lacquers always seemed to give a much better finish that the Rustoleums.

As for fisheyes, yes it is from improper surface prep, but some paints are far more forgiving than others... I haven't had a problem with fisheyes since I learned just how easily silicone migrates around the shop... other oils and waxes were fairly easy to deal with. I don't really do that sort of work anymore, but I used to wash down work tables with acetone and soap and water after doing anything with a product that contained silicon... simply setting a project down on a contaminated table from work that had been done weeks earlier could cause problems.


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sonofagun
04-06-2010, 05:59 AM
The trick with any tiny dust particles left in the flat black is to just sand them out with 600 to 1000 grit wet dry. Sand dry though. Once you apply the deft they dissapear and the resulting finish will dry to a perfect "Factory Like OEM" coat of paint.

The deft product is a Laquer based product, Thats why it dries to the touch in less than usually 3 to 5 minutes. I have never had any problems, ever, probally because of the fast drying time. The dust does not have enough time to settle before it is dry. If you see any dust it will wipe right off. The surface dries quite hard and durable. Should you wish to build up several coats sanding between them, you can even polish to a very nice "piano finish" type shine. Here is a partial picture of a Kenwood supreme cabinet I built that is polished to a very nice shine.

Once you use it you will be a believer.

mb

I've used Deft also but rubbed it out using very fine steel wool and Swedish (Danish, etc.) Oil as a lubricant.

toddalin
04-06-2010, 10:33 AM
Krylon 1613 has to be about the most forgiving paint on the planet. With a light coat, you can work on the piece 15-30 minutes later.

When it sprays, as a lacquer, it is semi-dry by the time it hits the work. Surface imperfections and minor contaminants are far less trouble as the paint has less time to react to these before it dries. I've used Painters Choice and it is still not as easy to use or as forgiving.

This whole undercarrage/chassis was done with 1613. You think I was able to get rid of all of the contaminants? Hardly.
http://www.largescaleonline.com/eimages/lsolpics/Team_Member_Pics/toddalin/Snubber.jpg

Tim Rinkerman
04-06-2010, 01:48 PM
"I'm not sure I have ever seen "painter's choice"... is it an aerosol enamel?

The common Rustoleum aerosol enamel never gave me a finish I could live with"
I agree..the old Rustoleum stuff used to take weeks to dry, and never looked good. Painters choice is an aerosol, probably the best enamel based spray I have used. You can lay on a thick coat without running, and it cuts into itself like a more expensive product. It goes directly onto metal without primer. I've had stuff mounted outside painted with it, and most of it is still rust free 5-7 years later. I've painted motorcycle frames with it, and high tolulene content race gas won't touch it.
"This whole undercarrage/chassis was done with 1613. You think I was able to get rid of all of the contaminants?"
If you didn't, the paint is stuck to the contaminant, not the metal.

Mr. Widget
04-06-2010, 02:40 PM
"The common Rustoleum aerosol enamel never gave me a finish I could live with"
I agree..the old Rustoleum stuff used to take weeks to dry, and never looked good. Painters choice is an aerosol, probably the best enamel based spray I have used.Thanks for the tip... next time I need an aerosol, I'll look for it.

I guess their intense marketing of that old junk allowed them to make enough profit to do the R+D to develop "Painter's Choice", maybe there is hope for Bose. :D


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toddalin
04-06-2010, 03:28 PM
"I'm not sure I have ever seen "painter's choice"... is it an aerosol enamel?

"This whole undercarrage/chassis was done with 1613. You think I was able to get rid of all of the contaminants?"
If you didn't, the paint is stuck to the contaminant, not the metal.


That's fine. What was left after the cleaning was 40 years old. It's not going anywhere and as it stays, the paint stays.

The finish would not look anywhere near as smooth with Rustoleum, not that anyone but me actually sees it. Still, it protects the metal from surface rust.

The fiberglass undersides of Corvettes were left unpainted. Imagine 40 years of grime working its way into the glass matting. Most all of the black you see is actually painted fiberglass.

Steve Schell
04-15-2010, 12:12 AM
Damn! I depended on Krylon Semi-Flat Black for years in piano work, as it made a beautiful and hard wearing finish on wooden sharp keytops. First they steal our incandescent light bulbs, now this.

Speaking of rattle cans, I had some fun the other day. I had grown very tired of the shiny black finish on my hecho en Mexico Fender Stratocaster; I understand even Eric Clapton donated his "Blackie" to charity. So, I stripped the finish, reworked the body contours with some aggressive sanding for a kinder, gentler shape, and applied a multicolor finish. It's about time for Zolatone to make a comeback, don't you think?

Mr. Widget
04-15-2010, 10:27 AM
It's about time for Zolatone to make a comeback, don't you think?Not just yet... you are a few years early. These cycles seem to run about every 30 years and then usually with a slight variation. I'd expect to see the "New" Zolatone look in about 5-6 years.

It really does suck about the Krylon... I still have a little left but it'll all be gone soon.


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Goodwill_HiFi
04-15-2010, 01:08 PM
I haven't purchased any for awhile, but I always liked the Rust Tough Flat black from Krylon....... very durable as a spray paints go. I suppose it won't help anybody that is looking for some shine, Though.

If you have a Tractor Supply Co. (TSC) near by, you might try their paint. It used to be called BPS (Best Paint Sold), but I think they're just going with the Valspar name, now....... Valspar made the BPS paint, so it's not necessarily a different paint, just a name change. They have a flat, that is more like a semi-flat, to me...... that might work for you.

svollmer
12-20-2010, 10:16 AM
I saw some Krylon Semi-Flat Black in a Walmart recently. It had a new shape cap on it, so I assume it was recent production. I looked on their website and they show a semi-flat black, but the number isn't 1613. The number I found was 53565. I'll have to check out a can next time I see it.

http://www.krylon.com/products/indooroutdoor_paint/

brutal
12-21-2010, 11:24 AM
I saw some Krylon Semi-Flat Black in a Walmart recently. It had a new shape cap on it, so I assume it was recent production. I looked on their website and they show a semi-flat black, but the number isn't 1613. The number I found was 53565. I'll have to check out a can next time I see it.

http://www.krylon.com/products/indooroutdoor_paint/

If it's anywhere near the lab sample they sent me, it's still off by a mile AFAIC. I've gone to Rustoleum Painters Touch flat black.

svollmer
12-22-2010, 04:10 AM
If it's anywhere near the lab sample they sent me, it's still off by a mile AFAIC. I've gone to Rustoleum Painters Touch flat black.

Thanks for the tip. So from your experience, the Rutoleum Painters Touch flat black is fairly close to Krylon's old semi-flat?

If I get a chance, I'll get the Krylon and report. It might be after the holidays and there's always the risk that by then, my mind might well have been erased. :cheers:

brutal
12-22-2010, 08:52 AM
Thanks for the tip. So from your experience, the Rutoleum Painters Touch flat black is fairly close to Krylon's old semi-flat?

If I get a chance, I'll get the Krylon and report. It might be after the holidays and there's always the risk that by then, my mind might well have been erased. :cheers:
Yes, fairly close. I haven't tried the Krylon semi-flat. Either takes longer to dry than the old 1613 lacquer. :banghead:

Audiobeer
02-16-2017, 06:48 AM
76038I know this is a very old thread but I need to know what people are now using? Help!!! Right in the thick of one. :banghead: