e-waste

[4313B]

I was thinking about buying a newer TV and then I read this:

The volume of e-waste, particularly lead-bearing CRTs, will likely grow exponentially next February, when U.S. television networks switch from analog to digital (http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=digital-tv-at-last) signals. And it would appear, based on the GAO report, that EPA is not ready to enforce regulations for the proper handling of such toxic materials.

Further, the liquid-crystal display televisions that are likely to replace them contain mercury in the fluorescent lightbulbs (http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=are-compact-fluorescent-lightbulbs-dangerous) inside them. "We don't know how to take out the mercury, let alone deal with it responsibly," Smith says.

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=trashed-tech-dumped-overseas

I love it...

"We don't know how to take out the mercury, let alone deal with it responsibly,"

Then how the FUCK did these products ever make it to market!?

You know... unless we babysit these jerk-offs with a vengeance they're just going to continue to come out with non-viable product after non-viable product, all in the name of making a buck today at the expense of our children's tomorrow.

[SEAWOLF97]

agree ..

and do you know why the conversion to digital ?? does the govt worry about our picture quality ? no.

they want those analogue TV freqs for wireless devices.

[neanderthal]

I was thinking about buying a newer TV and then I read this:

The volume of e-waste, particularly lead-bearing CRTs, will likely grow exponentially next February, when U.S. television networks switch from analog to digital (http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=digital-tv-at-last) signals. And it would appear, based on the GAO report, that EPA is not ready to enforce regulations for the proper handling of such toxic materials.

Further, the liquid-crystal display televisions that are likely to replace them contain mercury in the fluorescent lightbulbs (http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=are-compact-fluorescent-lightbulbs-dangerous) inside them. "We don't know how to take out the mercury, let alone deal with it responsibly," Smith says.

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=trashed-tech-dumped-overseas

I love it...

"We don't know how to take out the mercury, let alone deal with it responsibly,"

Then how the FUCK did these products ever make it to market!?

You know... unless we babysit these jerk-offs with a vengeance they're just going to continue to come out with non-viable product after non-viable product, all in the name of making a buck today at the expense of our children's tomorrow.


The very last TV you want to purchase is a JVC projection TV.Do not by any means purchase one. These go through bulbs like women with money. They lie and claim long bulb life (like 6000hrs if I remember correctly) but their claims are nothing but a lie to sell the TV. I have the HD ILA 52G786 and have had 5 bulbs in it in two years.
You can expect two bulbs a year.I notice the bulb that is in it is on it's way out as the picture isn't as bright as it was a couple months ago. At approx 150.00-200.00 per bulb it costs 300.00-400.00 to keep it going all year. I will not til the day I die ever own anymore JVC products.
If the quality of the JVC projection TV's are the same level of quality of their other products they should be out of business. JVC is forever and a day on my S**T list.

[Guido]

Our market is flood with these fashionable LCD TV's.
Every teenager want's to have one of these. They don't give a fuck about mercury and all the other poison that's inside. It's damned cool to have one so you need to have one.
The poorer people eat crap just to afford a nice flat TV :barf:Tell me how sick is that?
Leave alone the shit that is then consumned on such a unit.

I'm NOT talking about the people that enjoy a nice movie from time to time on their 42 inch+ LCD TV. Their TV will last 10 years+.
I'm talking about the 24h TV generation. They will need a new LCD every 2 -3 years and the old one will poison our environment.

We are going to hell in a trashcan and that's for sure. Enjoy life as long as it works :blink:

[JBL 4645]

Holy carp! Mercury you got to be kidding! That is very dodgy stuff and if it leaked or other no thanks no way do I want a poison LCD!

Besides have you ever stood back and saw how crappy the image looks! I mean talk about take a step backwards to imperfection! The image lags the image looks rough and its about first impressions that they can’t even meet or deliver.

A video projector is on my shopping future list and yes I’m fully aware of the bulb life issues that surrounds most video projectors, its no different than cinema expect a cinema xenon cost ten times more than a consumer product, so I’m cool about it.

Guildo

I have seen these LCD and I’m not impressed with the image its muddy looking I mean it looks like a second generation VHS recording on perfectly good looking CRT screen. :barf:

[Ian Mackenzie]

There is also the emmissions from production.

As for mercury, the US had in 2000 172 metric tons of mercury entering landfills. An addition of 1 million PC LCD screens would contribute 4-12 metric tons of this total.

[Krunchy]

"We don't know how to take out the mercury, let alone deal with it responsibly,"

Then how the FUCK did these products ever make it to market!?

You know... unless we babysit these jerk-offs with a vengeance they're just going to continue to come out with non-viable product after non-viable product, all in the name of making a buck today at the expense of our children's tomorrow.

It is a sad state of affairs indeed. As long as quick money is the driving force (which will probably always be) none of this is going to change any time soon. Dont get me wrong, I'd love a quick buck but none of my get rich quick schemes have panned out so far ;)
While I would love to launch into a diatribe about all this incredible crap that is taking place I will spare you all, suffice it to say that something has to change & I dont mean McCain/Obama kind of change :D, I mean real change. The shoddy/cheap products coming into this country,ie: lead paint in childrens toys, dog food made outside the US being recalled, soccer nets whose mesh is big enough for a little kid to strange himself in (its happened already, see NPR if interested) it all just seems like a big run away train.
We cant oversee the stuff thats happening in our own country much less halfway around the wolrd (BTW this in not the diatribe :D, it would be much longer :D).
We (or someone else) are shooting ourselves in the foot as long as we continue along this path.
A lot of people will probably have to die (or be injured for life) before the powers that be will even consider doing anything about it, and that is a real shame.

Thanks for the heads up on this one !:)

[Titanium Dome]

We're not allowed to get political, partisan, or sectarian in what we post, so 90% of what I'd like to say about this is off limits.

I can say that most of us are using computers that are chock full of toxic parts, not to mention our audio equipment, automobiles, kitchen appliances, telephones, etc.

We should budget to pay our own costs for effective recycling either as individuals or maybe at the state level, as the federal government is busy with other important initiatives that not only use up all the money we send to it but lots more. This insures our children and grandchildren are safe to keep supporting and paying for our national priorities long after we're gone.

http://www.electronicsrecycling.org/Public/default.aspx

http://www.ecyclingresource.org/ContentPage.aspx?PageID=1

[Hoerninger]

We're not allowed to get political, partisan, or sectarian in what we post, so 90% of what I'd like to say about this is off limits.

I have always been fascinated by the Eskimo's culture before it started to be changed resp. destroyed by modern influences. What they used was in a circular flow within nature and they have learned not only to survive but live in a rough nature with simple but effectiv methods.

Often modern consum seems to be a one way road but no circulation.

But my inner nature is still confident. Even the old Rom had a problem with pollution. Or think further back in Greek. Herakles had to clean Augias cow boxes within a day. An unsolvable task at first sight ...
___________
Peter

[boputnam]

Further, the liquid-crystal display televisions that are likely to replace them contain mercury in the fluorescent lightbulbs (http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=are-compact-fluorescent-lightbulbs-dangerous) inside them. "We don't know how to take out the mercury, let alone deal with it responsibly," Smith says.... Yeah, likewise, those "go Green" CFL bulbs our energy companies are pushing on us, have no means of safe disposal. Sadly, the environmentalists are largely ignorant of this - most enviro rallies and stalls at festivals I work are giving these poisonous things away.

The comment about Hg is very small, but can be found on the packaging. The manufacturers lobbied hard to suppress notice.

There is no means of safe disposal. This mercury will enter the environment through the landfills. Please do not buy them and spead the word - not the Hg... :(

[Ian Mackenzie]

The proportion of mercury in a PC LCD screen is relatively small compared to household fluorescent tubes.

An alternative here. But would you guys pay the price?

http://videoediting.digitalmedianet.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=33128


6/21/05) Most flat panel displays, otherwise known as LCD (http://videoediting.digitalmedianet.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=33128#) monitors, use fluorescent backlight to provide illumination for their screens. But NEC has a new way to provide backlight, using light emitting diodes, or LEDs, evenly lighting the screen of its 2180UX-WG display. Although its decidedly high-end price of $6,500 will scare away most consumers, seasoned professional content creators whose lifeblood is accurate color will be delighted to see the precision with which this product can reproduce more colors than anybody?s ever seen on a monitor. NEC sent us a prototype of the 2180UX-WG for this First Look.

[BMWCCA]

I guess I'm just lucky living where I live——but then that's why I live here.

http://www.crutchfield.com/App/OurStory/Environment/Recycle.aspx


Maybe they haven't cracked the Mercury nut yet, but all other e-trash they will take and actually recycle. That's what they say, at least. :)

[Titanium Dome]

My high resolution 17" MacBook Pro has LED lighting in its display and no mercury or arsenic. Most of its parts are also recyclable. Still, it's a long way from being where I'd like it to be in terms of eco-friendly, and it represents a very small percentage of laptops out there.

One nice thing about most of the Macs I've owned is that there's always someone who'll buy them and keep using them. Some of the PCs I've owned I couldn't give away; I had to pay someone to take them (for legal disposal).

[mikebake]

Some of you worry too much...........
Anyone told you that?

[Audiobeer]

As always we can find some third world country that will trade cash for our waste. It won't be the 1st time.

[Allanvh5150]

Here's another way to look at mercury. It is a naturally occuring element that is dug from the ground. Why do so many people get upset when someone puts a miniscule amount into a landfill? If you a worried about a few contaminats then maybe we should stop driving our cars as well because they run on a naturally occuring liquid as well. It is probably a good lob that JBL didnt use mercury in any of thier products.:)

[boputnam]

Here's another way to look at mercury. It is a naturally occuring element that is dug from the ground. Why do so many people get upset when someone puts a miniscule amount into a landfill? Hg does occur in nature, true, but it is relatively rare at 90 ppb concentration in the earth. It very rarely occurs in the native form, which can be very toxic if it combines with chlorides or organics (methymercury) - the latter becomes a "bioaccumulative environmental toxicant", because it does not degrade.

Hg typically occurs in sulfide form (as a solid) which is very stable and non-toxic. Hg does not "naturally" occur in landfills, and the landfill is not engineered to contain it. It will enter the water supply = risk of complexing with organics. It may or may not be rendered non-toxic, depending upon if and how it oxidizes.

"Miniscule" implies occurrences of minute amounts. Soon, as the first "batch" of bulbs expire, millions of bulbs will be discarded with improper containment. This stuff accumulates - it is bad. I don't understand your complacency. Individual littering seems harmless too, until everyone does it - then our garden planet is trashed.

[Robh3606]

Why do so many people get upset when someone puts a miniscule amount into a landfill?

It's the potential for thousands in a landfill that's the real issue. You can get very high concentrations in a land fill. All landfills have barriers at the bottom that eventually degrade and leak. You don't want any heavy metals leaching out and entering ground water. It ends up in fish and goes right up the food chain. It can potentially ruin an aquifer for both irrigation and drinking water. Safe fresh water is something we all take for granted. The last thing we need to do is irreversibly contaminate a primary source of it by poor waste management now.

You have the same issue with lead which is one of the reasons why ROHS was implemented. ROHS actually handles many types of prohibited materials not just lead. Cadmium is another metal in that standard you want know part of.

Rob:)

[Mr. Widget]

This stuff accumulates - it is bad.


Safe fresh water is something we all take for granted. The last thing we need to do is irreversibly contaminate a primary source of it by poor waste management now.You guys sound like those Left Coast Liberal Extremists we hear about on Fox News.;)


Widget

[4313B]

Yeah they do! :p

[Allanvh5150]

I think it is far too late to worry about a bit of mercury. I have a gob full of it. 3 billion people in asia dont care much for anialating the planet so a few hundred million people doing the "right thing" aint gonna make too much difference. The Planet is already past the point of no return.......:)

[BMWCCA]

The Planet is already past the point of no return.......:)I'm gonna make a WAG (Wild Ass Guess) here and say you probably don't have any children. :bash:

[Hoerninger]

... so a few hundred million people doing the "right thing" aint gonna make too much difference.
These few hundred million people mainly did the pollution to the world so far, right?

The Planet is already past the point of no return.......:)Please define this point.
__________
Peter

[hjames]

I think it is far too late to worry about a bit of mercury. I have a gob full of it. 3 billion people in asia dont care much for anialating the planet so a few hundred million people doing the "right thing" aint gonna make too much difference. The Planet is already past the point of no return.......:)

Shush - GAIA can HEAR you when you type such things ...!
Don't piss her off!

[rek50]

You can't create it, nor destroy it, you can only change it's form.....
Like MONEY...

[Titanium Dome]

Grace Slick's famous line on this topic was, "I don't care if my lettuce has DDT in it, as long as it's crisp."

So, I don't care if my water has Mercury in it, as long as it's clear.






Uhhh, we're both being sarcastic, huh?

[Allanvh5150]

By 2050 the worlds population will be 9 billion and by 2020 China will need the reserves of 3 Earths just to keep going. Hence the point of no return. There are more things to worry about I think, not that I worry. Now, how bout a project with some 2235's....................:)

[4313B]

By 2050 the worlds population will be 9 billion and by 2020 China will need the reserves of 3 Earths just to keep going.I think it is mildly amusing how the people with all the money think that China and India are emerging markets and will become major industrialized countries. The only energy technology currently available that would make such an impossible feat even remotely possible would be nuclear power and the more nuclear power plants built the greater the chance of a nuclear accident, either man made or the result of some natural phenomenon. We won't even bother bringing up the social implications of countries with billions of newly empowered individuals all trying to make their own personal piles of gold.

Long ago it was stated that the planet had enough resources to comfortably "keep" a maximum of 1.5 to 2 billion people long term. You are correct in the fact that we are well past the point of no return. The planet needs to jetison at least 5 billion people and it needs to do it rather quickly. I'm just not real hopeful that it can do it in a fashion that will leave much of it habitable by those who remain. This issue isn't even open for discussion or debate it's just the reality of the situation.
Now, how bout a project with some 2235's....................:)Build a 4430 or 4435...

[Mr. Widget]

The planet needs to jetison at least 5 billion people and it needs to do it rather quickly. I'm just not real hopeful that it can do it in a fashion that will leave much of it habitable by those who remain. This issue isn't even open for discussion or debate it's just the reality of the situation.Yep, we live in a sell correcting system.

By the late '80s it looked like the planet might get rid of us via AIDs... but those pesky resilient humans seem to have gotten reasonable control of that one. Don't fret though another one will come along to thin the herd. It is either nature or god's will depending on your perspective.


Build a 4430 or 4435...Haven't we come up with a better use for them by now? :D


Widget

[4313B]

Haven't we come up with a better use for them by now? :DNot really. They are what they are. They are also viable in a 4344 or 4355 clone but those systems cost alot more.

These drivers have to be reasonably well matched. For instance, if one decided to use the better LE14H-3 or LE14H-4 then one would probably want to use a better midrange, high frequency and ultra high frequency transducer as well.

[Ian Mackenzie]

I think it is mildly amusing how the people with all the money think that China and India are emerging markets and will become major industrialized countries. The only energy technology currently available that would make such an impossible feat even remotely possible would be nuclear power and the more nuclear power plants built the greater the chance of a nuclear accident, either man made or the result of some natural phenomenon. We won't even bother bringing up the social implications of countries with billions of newly empowered individuals all trying to make their own personal piles of gold.



Its actually past tenth.

Does any one know the life span of an LCD screen?

There is alot going on in the Asia Pacific region and it will dominate world economic wealth over the next 30 years.

At the moment Australia is deciding how to sell its uranium to India/China and Russia.

In terms of scale China has the largest (as reported by the media) foriegn reserves of US$1.7 trillion. The Chinese car manufacturing industry employs 250 million people.

Meanwhile Bush is asking American tax payers to pay for your $700 million credit meltdown. :bs:

I guess if things really turn south you could get a job as a JBL car installer
in Bejing.

The car wash industry is booming in China. Maybe Rick should set -up a shop there.

On the subject of land fills we have a real issue in a south east place called Cranbourne. A new estate development was allowed to be built within 200 metres of a landfill after a VTAC approval that over ruled EPA warnings and allowed the developer to build not 500 metres but 200 metres from the landfill..:banghead:

Residence are now being forced from their homes because of dangerously high levels (explosive levels) of methane gas leaching from the site. There are also reports of illegal substances being dumped at the landfill. That particular landfill has no liner. Its a mess.

[4313B]

There is alot going on in the Asia Pacific region and it will dominate world economic wealth over the next 30 years.I wouldn't bet on it. The deck stacked against them is staggering.
Meanwhile Bush is asking American tax payers to pay for your $700 million credit meltdown.Billion, seven hundred billion. That money should come out of the top five percent of the population's pocket, not out of the bottom 95%. It has nothing at all to do with the average American citizen. The people responsible should join the 1% of the population already incarcerated.

To be fair, they really didn't have too many options other than to try and make money off of money. It isn't like the government was doing much of anything to stimulate new areas for economic investment.

[boputnam]

You guys sound like those Left Coast Liberal Extremists we hear about on Fox News.;)Ha! Perhaps, but it is the geochemististry training in me coming through...


...so a few hundred million people doing the "right thing" aint gonna make too much difference. The Planet is already past the point of no return.......:)I disagree. Yeah, things are not perfect, and there's too many of us'ns, but the system self corrects, either through periodic planetary / interstallar events (I love those...) or some bio-catastrophy. But to think even for a moment that nothing positive one does will matter one little bit is so fatalistic. It's also terribly lame. "It's OK that I wantonly pollute because all of them are better at it than I am and there's more of them." That's a deplorable stance. The planet deserves more than that.

Do your part - reduce your impacts and others will come around, too.

[Allanvh5150]

Saying a comment like that without all the correct information is shooting yourself in the foot. Apart from my car, which is supplied by my employer and I have no controll over it, everything that I do including my waste management and energy use is below 25% of what everyone else does. My rubbish goes kerbside every 8 weeks and I allways have my energy company checking the meters because they say that I dont use enough to operate my house.
Having said that, adding another 3 billion people to an already overstreched planet is certain death for the population. The experts say that we have problems now, what will we have in 2050? Get Asia and the USA cleaned up in the next couple of weeks and maybe the rest of us have a future. :)

[Allanvh5150]

I wouldn't bet on it. The deck stacked against them is staggering.Billion, seven hundred billion. That money should come out of the top five percent of the population's pocket, not out of the bottom 95%. It has nothing at all to do with the average American citizen. The people responsible should join the 1% of the population already incarcerated.

Or maybe take it out of the pockets of the loan deafaulters. That is what happens in most other countries. Spend the Trillion dollars on something useful like a new car or some JBL's, but dont throw it into a bottomless hole with no hope of a return. Where will the next trillion come from when this trillion hasn't done squat. :)

[Ian Mackenzie]

Ha! Perhaps, but it is the geochemististry training in me coming through...

I disagree. Yeah, things are not perfect, and there's too many of us'ns, but the system self corrects, either through periodic planetary / interstallar events (I love those...) .

Yeah Man,

Like the global warming and super storms.

[Ian Mackenzie]

The deck stacked against them is staggering.Billion, seven hundred billion. .

Sorry, there is a world shortage of zeros right now.

But seriously I wonder if the average American understands what has caused the credit crunch or is aware of the global effect.

I also doubt if anyone can figure out a cheaper way energy wise to run a LCD screen that won't break the bank.

[4313B]

But seriously I wonder if the average American understands what has caused the credit crunch or is aware of the global effect.I doubt it.

[boputnam]

But seriously I wonder if the average American understands what has caused the credit crunch or is aware of the global effect.Certainly most do - either they themselves or someone they know is getting beyond their mortgage teaser rate period and is facing increased costs of borrowing on their ARM. Bad idea.

And I wouldn't limit "it" to Americans - this credit abuse was worldwide. Wait until it starts to really surface in the UK and EU. :(

[boputnam]

Saying a comment like that without all the correct information is shooting yourself in the foot. Well, blame yourself. Your posts were seeming to advocate a laissez faire attitude - there was no hope so why try? It was odd - your non e-posts were much more sensible. :)


Having said that, adding another 3 billion people to an already overstreched planet is certain death for the population. The experts say that we have problems now, what will we have in 2050? Get Asia and the USA cleaned up in the next couple of weeks and maybe the rest of us have a future. :)Allan, in that almost all of us agree.

Watching a country the magnitude of China (and India) accelerate into a 2nd, and 1st world economy is freightening. It is almost surely the death knell to our fragile, already over-taxed ecosystem. Their polution standards will take years to catch-up - but even when they do, the sheer numbers of us will overwhelm.

I'm as cynical as you about our chances for success, but like you (I see... :) ), I recycle, avoid products that are toxic to dispose of, and try and keep my footprint small. My commute and my too-frequent international flights are my biggest stains. I need to stop working as soon as I can...

[Titanium Dome]

if one decided to use the better LE14H-3 or LE14H-4

I love it when you talk like that.

[Titanium Dome]

I'm in the "think globally act locally" camp.

My company's not only in the gang prevention business, but also the graffiti abatement business, the community clean up business, the family rebuilding business, and the money-saving business. We've moved to all water-based, low VOH paints; we use organic, bio-degradable solvents; we spend $40,000 for vehicles that can reclaim and recycle the water we use for cleaning surfaces to avoid runoff into rivers and the ocean; we separate and recycle most of the illegally dumped materials we pick up; we renovate abandoned and trash-filled lots to plant trees and low moisture plants; we create pocket parks for kids and families in neighborhoods where there's no green space; we hire urban teenagers to work in distressed neighborhoods to clear out trash and weeds, to plant trees and flowers, and to reclaim their lives; and so on.

Yeah, I know I'm not solving the China problem or the India problem, but if I can solve just part of the Los Angeles problem, that'd be the shitz for me. It's what I can do, and that's what counts. Everyone would benefit a little bit.

After I accomplish that, my mission will be to get all the old farts here to buy one of the great JBLs made in the past five years and recycle those old JBL dino bones properly.:spin:

[Allanvh5150]

Well, blame yourself. Your posts were seeming to advocate a laissez faire attitude - there was no hope so why try? It was odd - your non e-posts were much more sensible. :)

I have that attitude as well. I cant help but do my bit but on the other hand I fully realize that I am wasting my time. I find that it is relatively easy to be "eco freindly". Maybe JBL started making NEO drivers to cut down on transport costs. Now everyone is in agreement on our eco footprint all we need to do is figure out how to stop farting!:)

[4313B]

Or maybe take it out of the pockets of the loan deafaulters. That is what happens in most other countries. Spend the Trillion dollars on something useful like a new car or some JBL's, but dont throw it into a bottomless hole with no hope of a return. Where will the next trillion come from when this trillion hasn't done squat. :)

Partners at the Destruction (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122257274028583113.html?mod=googlenews_wsj)

[Ian Mackenzie]

Certainly most do - either they themselves or someone they know is getting beyond their mortgage teaser rate period and is facing increased costs of borrowing on their ARM. Bad idea.

And I wouldn't limit "it" to Americans - this credit abuse was worldwide. Wait until it starts to really surface in the UK and EU. :(

That was not quite what I meant. I will try and explain it in simple terms.


There have always been loan defaulters. You know, lost my job, marital bust up , gay tiff falling outs and people who over commit.

The consumer has always borrowed more than they should. What has feed this more recently is greed of the lender for higher sales and bigger returns.

Normally the bank takes vacant possession following a process of assisting the borrower to catch up , then sells the home. The norm is that the bank valuation, ie what the bank can quickly sell the property for will recover the banks loan without loss. Good lending practise will approve the loan for those who can service the debt and those who have proven savings in the bank and use that as a deposit. ie 10-20 % of purchase price.

The banks lend against deposits and borrowed wholesale funds. In Australia a bank must meet APRA regulations for a ratio of deposits versus lending. Called SRD's

However, what happened earlier on was brokers offered over the phone loan approvals to Americans or occupants of the USA who could barely speak english let alone be literate enough to understand the loan contract. Many of these people were in the longer term rental market. Its all very sad.

The deals were shonky in that in many cases the home loan was interest only,100% lending (with mortgage insurance) in many cases where the bank offered to capitalise the repayments for say 2-5 years and then go P & I. Approvals were never audited and a lot of families hit the wall when the interest only period expired. That was about the time Citibank had a massive write down on wholesale funds lent to sub prime lenders ie 3rd teir loan providers. The sub prime lender is caught in that they are damned if they sell up the home and damned if they dont. In many cases they hung on hoping home valuations would improve and the customer could make payments. Nothing worked out the way people thought it would.

What of course has happened since is that the wholesale cost of funds, ie the money a sub prime lender borrowers from a loan securitization provider like Citibank has risen sharply. The sub primer lender and those banks with poor deposits run into trouble meeting their own repayments of the wholesale funds because of all the defaulting borrowers and the very fine margins on the cost of funds versus retail lending rates. The properties used as security have such low valuations they they are not worth selling.

Poorly regulated finance markets fair badly in this type of climate because their Banking best practise is simply not well regulated.

The cylce gets worse further up the food chain where investors on Wall Street get the jitters when a big bank folds and we see global panic on short selling of stock. The lack of transparency in the financial accounting conducted makes it hard for authorities to detect when an institution might be getting into hot water.

What happens in the end is a shortage of credit, or what is known as the credit squeeze where there is simply not enough money in the system to keep everything afloat. Economies then have their AAA credit rating down graded with further tumbles and guys like Bush get a phone call from China saying get your act together or else.

In Australia the financial market is more highly regulated and the banks tend to build up reserves in the good time to weather the storm in the bad time. The level of expertise in this respect is well recognised. They are certainly not immune to the above problems but they survive.

There is more to it but I hope this makes some sense to you guys.

[richluvsound]

Certainly most do - either they themselves or someone they know is getting beyond their mortgage teaser rate period and is facing increased costs of borrowing on their ARM. Bad idea.

And I wouldn't limit "it" to Americans - this credit abuse was worldwide. Wait until it starts to really surface in the UK and EU. :(

Its here bo ! 60,000 people a month are losing there jobs. House prices are down 25%. Gas is around $ 2.30 per ltr. :D

Rich