New project with 2235

[aktivkampi]

Hello – is there anybody out there ?

This is my first try. I’ m a guy from Germany and and want to start a new speaker project. This is what I have: A pair of 2235 reconed in a K 140 basked, a pair of D.A.S M 401 (like 2440) / 2380 A and a pair of 2405 slots. I’d like to build a 3-way monitor, driven active. I’ve got a 3-channel active crossover (Audio Geometry) with seperate frequency cards. (There are 500 Hz, 630 Hz for the low frequency section and 8 KHz fort the slots.
Now I have some questions about the enclosure volume for the 2235. I thougt about an enclosure with 4 – 5 qft. (120 – 140 Liter). Has someone good ideas? What about the damping material? What will be the better crossover frequency between low and mid? Thanks for all answers, sorry for my bad english, greetings Guido:barf:

[macaroonie]

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=17238&highlight=backyard+box+building

[aktivkampi]

Hi Macaroonie

Thanks for your answer. Very nice pics, good work, too. I Think I'll take some information from your project. When I'll start, I hope I've time enogh to take some photos - and post it to you:applaud:

[Doc Mark]

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=17238&highlight=backyard+box+building

Morning, Macaroonie,

I just went through that absolutely wonderful thread of yours, yet again, and am still in awe of how your system turned out!! MAN, did you do a fine job on those Mini-L300's!!!! :applaud::applaud:

Now, after having had a chance to live with them for a bit, do you have any thoughts as to how the components mesh and sound together? How do you like the 2380A with that big compression driver? As you may remember, one of the various combinations I want to make, using a 2235H in the 4333 cabinets as a base, is to add a satellite speaker on top for the mids and highs. My combo that is most like yours will be the 2380A and a 2445J, with a 2405 up on top. Crossover points would be 500-800 HZ between bass and mid, and 8.5 KHZ-10KHZ between mid and slot. Furthermore, I will also try the addition of a 2123H, to see how I like having the 10" as a midbass component, and the woofer more limited in range.

How have you enjoyed your wonderful system, Mac? Anything you would change, or do differently, were you to do all this again? Your thoughts and comments will be eagerly awaited, and much appreciated! Thanks, very much, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc (Who is enjoying the holy hell out of his L300's, all the while glancing sideways as the 4333 cabs, and other components, which are strewn around the living room, and asking himself, "Huuummmmmmm??!!??!"):bouncy::D;)

[macaroonie]

I reckon about 600hz bass- horn and about 9kHz to the slot , going by the markings on the x/o. So thats somewhat lower than the 300 but the horn takes it and it is a benefit to the 2235 not having to run that high. That of course is where the 10" comes into play in the 4 way systems. If I go too near 500hz point I can tell that the horn is becoming muddled at its cut off.
Since the system is fully active tweaking is easy on the fly. It has taken a while to settle down since the woofs were re-edged not long ago and also the compressors were brand new.
If I have any reservations at all it is about the scale of the sound, which is a bit large for the space that I have. ( plus neighbours ) I have toed the speakers in about 15 deg and this has solidified the imaging no end. They are wonderfully spatial if the info is there in the music. I only wish I had about 20 x 30 ft with a cathedral ceiling and no adjacent neighbours..
Go active Doc you know it makes sense.
Thanks for your enthusiasm and kind words regarding my build, all I hope is that the thread gives some others the confidence to take on a project of their own.
Thanks too to all the members who pitched in advice and help with awkward little details like veneering etc.

[Doc Mark]

Hey, Mac,

You are very welcome for any and all comments I, and others, have made about your fantastic system, my Friend! You EARNED every word, and more!!

Thanks, very much, for your comments on your system, after having enjoyed it for abit, and for your suggestions on mine. I appreciate your thoughts, and would like to incorporate them into my project, when I can get to it. One thing I'd have to do is get a nice 4-way crossover. I have a Crown VFX-2A, which can be setup as a mono 3-way. And I also have an Audio Control Phase Coupled Activator, which currently has a 90HZ card in it. But, that can be changed to whatever I want, if I build the resistor cards myself. AC still sells the boards, and plans for doing that, plus a few fixed cards of various crossover points. I'd also have to get very small amp for the slots. The smallest I have is in our H/K AVR 20, and that is 65 watts, which is probably just fine for running the horns and compression drivers. But, as I understand it, I only need a wee 'lil thing to power those 2405's, and it should probably be very clean, I'd imagine.

So, lots to still do, but plenty of time to get it done (WHEN time permits...! ;)). Going all active does away with phase problems, too, doesn't it? Sounds great to me! I'll have to check the threads that deal with electronic crossovers, and see what's being touted as a good unit, for not TOO much money. Thanks, again, Mac, for all your efforts, on behalf of us all, and for your enthusiasm for my own project! Much appreciated! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

P.S. Someday, I really want to get to Scotland, and amongst other things, see the museum at the Royal College of Physicians, in Edinburgh! Another dream of mine, besides the JBL stuff!

[macaroonie]

I think you might want to splash out on a new x/o. Yhe way it stands you can cobble something together but it will be a mish mash of cables pots etc. Not ideal but you can get a new Behringer 3400 for $100 ish DBX 234 for a bit more and I believe it has delay built in.
Ashley would be even better.
:)I think you gots to have a yard sale, clear the floor a bit.:)
Mac

[Doc Mark]

I think you might want to splash out on a new x/o. Yhe way it stands you can cobble something together but it will be a mish mash of cables pots etc. Not ideal but you can get a new Behringer 3400 for $100 ish DBX 234 for a bit more and I believe it has delay built in.
Ashley would be even better.
:)I think you gots to have a yard sale, clear the floor a bit.:)
Mac

Morning, Mac,

Man, you know it!! I definitely need to get rid of some of the "'make do" jun......er, I mean, "stuff", I've been carrying around for the last 10-20 years!! :blink::blink: Now that I am finally getting all the JBL stuff I've lusted after, I need to get rid of the chaff, so to speak! ;)

Thanks for the recommendations on an electronic 4- way crossover. The Behringer sounds interesting, but all the negs I've read about the quality and reliability of their stuff is more than a little worrisome! I'll check the DBX and Ashley units out, though, assuming the US doesn't have such a monetary melt down that I end up burning all my cabinets this Winter, just to stay warm!! :blink::blink:;) Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[hjames]

I've got an Ashly XR1001 Crossover (http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=205012&postcount=129) earlier this year and it was a nice step up from the JBL/UREI M552 I was using earlier ...

I feed a pair of JBL/UREI power amps with it - the combo works nicely ...

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=31709&stc=1&d=1206142264


Morning, Mac,

Man, you know it!! I definitely need to get rid of some of the "'make do" jun......er, I mean, "stuff", I've been carrying around for the last 10-20 years!! :blink::blink: Now that I am finally getting all the JBL stuff I've lusted after, I need to get rid of the chaff, so to speak! ;)

Thanks for the recommendations on an electronic 4- way crossover. The Behringer sounds interesting, but all the negs I've read about the quality and reliability of their stuff is more than a little worrisome! I'll check the DBX and Ashley units out, though, assuming the US doesn't have such a monetary melt down that I end up burning all my cabinets this Winter, just to stay warm!! :blink::blink:;) Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[Doc Mark]

Morning, Heather,


Thanks, very much! I'll definitely be checking that one out, to see what they might set me back. Can it be setup as a 4-way, stereo? Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[macaroonie]

Rane AC24 does everything you need or will need. Looks interesting in that it is digital workings but analog controls.

'Exclusive Automatic Phase Compensation
Independent driver alignment Delays on each Output
Independent Limiters on each Output
CD Horn EQ on Hi-Mid and High Outputs
Stereo Link Switch
Summed Output for expanded use
Security Cover included
Internal Universal Power Supply (100-240 VAC) '

http://www.rane.com/ac24.html

Mind you it does cost $799

Looks like the Ashly XR 4001 at $425 ish will do the trick also

[Doc Mark]

Hey, Mac, Heather, and all,

Well, I KNEW we'd discussed this stuff, and recently!! But, today, when I was trying to find it, I could not remember where to look!! :o::o: Luckily, I "stumbled" back onto this thread, and VOILA, there are recommendations for both the dbx234, and the Ashly XR-4001!! Will the wonders never cease??!!

OK, I'm checking into both of these units, and it seems like, between the two of them, the Ashly is a better buy, for several reason. So, that's what I think I'll try to score. Thanks, very much, for the tips, my Friends!! Much appreciated!!

I'll be using Crown DC300A's on the bottom end, and our Harmon Kardon H/K870's, one for the midbass, and another one for the horns. Now, what teeny 'lil amp can you suggest to run the 2405H's????? ;):D I do have our 65 watt AVR20 receiver amp, which I guess I could use. But, it's WAY too much than is needed, don't you think? I also have an old Nikko integrated amp, with 40wpc, but in truth, I don't really like the sound of it. Sort of "brittle", if I remember right. Any and all micro-amp suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, again, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[aktivkampi]

Good morning Doc

I ran my 2405 since years with an Audio Note P-Zero. It's a little push pull tube amp with 8 watt and it sounds great. This amp I use also for my D.A.S M 401 with the 2380 in the mid/high section.
I think, I'll take a 5 cft enclosure for the 2235, tune it to 30 Hz ( 2 ports of 4" and 11" long). The ennclosure himself I'll build from 1" MDF and stiff it out with fibre (only the walls)
:)
greetings to everybody - aktivkampi

[Doc Mark]

Good morning Doc

I ran my 2405 since years with an Audio Note P-Zero. It's a little push pull tube amp with 8 watt and it sounds great. This amp I use also for my D.A.S M 401 with the 2380 in the mid/high section.
I think, I'll take a 5 cft enclosure for the 2235, tune it to 30 Hz ( 2 ports of 4" and 11" long). The ennclosure himself I'll build from 1" MDF and stiff it out with fibre (only the walls)
:)
greetings to everybody - aktivkampi

Greetings, Aktivkampi,

Thanks, very much, for your suggestion! I will begin looking around for a low wattage tube amp, and I agree that such a thing will really be sweet-sounding with that 2405H! Thanks! I may have to do something similar with the horn/compression driver, too, eventually, if the 2405H amp sounds as good as I think it will.

Your thoughts on a cabinet for your 2235H are exactly what JBL recommended on their spec sheet for the 2235H! Same size, same port dimensions, and all! :D:applaud: I think you have chosen wisely, but I've never used MDF for anything, and so can't comment on that as a material for cabinets. I have always used Baltic birch, or very high density particle board, and seem to have had very good luck with both materials. So, I will stick with what has always worked for me.

But, I look forward to hearing how your experiment works out. I would suggest heavily bracing the cabinet, and then adding insulation to the top, bottom, sides, and rear of your cabinet. I always use regular acoustic fibreglass that you can get from any DIY audio store, and I use 3M adhesive spray to glue it in there. So far, I've never had any flaking, or peeling, and even 20 year old cabinets perform as when new, with that method.

But, I'm sure there are lots of ways to skin the audio cat, and again, I look forward to hearing how your plans turn out!

Thanks, again, for your amp suggestion, and best of luck on your project. Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[aktivkampi]

Here are some pics of my old systemhttp://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/icons/icon10.gif

Hope you like it

Greetings Aktivkampi

[Doc Mark]

Hello, Aktivkampi,

WOW! That's some system!! You have a PAIR of those Big Boys in your room?!! How do they sound? What horn did you use? Do you have subs in both corners, as the one shown, and is that the reconed 2235 in there? What is the driver that's underneath the horn? Thanks for sharing it with us. That's an impressive systems, that's for sure!! :applaud::applaud: Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[aktivkampi]

Hi Doc

The Subs are the reconed 2235's. The Mid-Bass is a D.A.S 12B. Sub and Mid-Bass are crossed at 63 Hz with 18 dB/oct. The horn is a D.A.S BP 93 with an D.A.S M 401 alnico driver. It runs up from 500 Hz to 9 kHz where the slots start (D.A.S K2). The horn sounds great..... - to great for my small room, so thats why I try my new project with the smaller JBL 2380 with the same driver. The old horn gives an impossible deep and wide soundstage - voices come much greater as the are, normally the best you can get, but the problen is even the small room. I hope i can do better with the smaller horn. The slots are also fine, in the future i'll look for a mint pair of 077 (but they are so expensive).
Hope, I also can get a better Mid-Bass response with my new project, cause I have no more time problems between the 2235 and the 12B. Do you know how the 2235 sounds in the mid-bass section??
Further I think, if I go fully 3-way active, the breakup between mid/high will get much better than at the passive way and the slots will sound much clearer as before.
This is my equipment: Burmester 897 pre, Audio Geometry FDN 3S Active Crossover, 2 x Parasound HCA 1200 II (Bass + Mid-Bass), Audio Note P-Zero (Slots), Teac VRDS 25 X (CD-Player), Acoustic Solid Wood - Rega RB 300 - Ortofon MC 20 Super (Record Player), Denon TU 500 (Tuner), Kimber Speaker Cable, Sun Wire Reference (NF-Cable).

So - thats all for the moment

Greetings Aktivkampi

[aktivkampi]

Hello again

At the time, I finished my project (pitures will follow) - but I've to say, I'm not very satisfied with that !!! My old setup with those cornersubs and the 12" midbass gave much better response even in the midbass area. The sound is much clearer and faster as with the 2235 up to 500 Hz. So I'll go back to the old system - but I'm searching for a new 12" - I'll change the D.A.S 12B into a JBL (to get a real JBL system). Has anyone some good ideas for me ??? The 12" will run from 63 or 80 Hz up to 500 Hz, I'd like to build a closed cabinet for it. What about 2204 or 2206 ??? Thanks for all answers - pictures will follow