Vintage JBL for Home Theater?

[dentcorn]

I am a newbie here, but I have lurked quite awhile and I have owned a L166 Horizon system for 30 years which I absolutely love. Most of the newer speakers at twice the price do not sound as good to me!
My question is this: We are moving into another house with quite a large rec room and I plan to turn one end of it into a home theater setup. I would like to do this for about 4-5,000$. I was wondering if I could assemble a set of older JBL speakers from Ebay and Craig's list, like use the L166's for Left and right, maybe some Decade L36's and L26's for sides and rear and build a sub from a used 2245H or something similar - or maybe use a pair of Eminence Lab 12's in a sealed or ported box. Or would some Control series work for the sides and rear? And what about a center channel speaker? Or should I juts forget the whole thing and buy something from SVS Audio or AV123? I just love the sound of my 166's and have always been a big JBL fan - the punch, the immediacy, the transparency. Oh, and I would also like somethng that would have a true fundamental around 20-25hz. Is this worth piecing together? Any and all ideas would be appreciated. (I saw some plans somewhere using a 2245 in a 8 cubic foot box that was THX certified...I am 52 years old and figure I'M WoRTH It, but I can't break the bank either..LOL)
Thanks, Kirby
PS Mixing consumer and pro models doesn't bother me.

[Mr. Widget]

First question... does the $4-5K include buying a projector and screen?


Widget

[rdgrimes]

You can assemble a decent set for HT, sure. It will sound fine too, if it's done right. I'd avoid using speakers that have different drivers and/or different crossovers. Even with the same drivers, the different XO's give them a very different sound which is not really what you want for HT. Stick with all 3-way models for best results. Or at the very least, the HF crossover must be very similar. But at FleaBay prices, a good set of identical units can be had, or at least a set of all 3-way models. Be aware though, buying speakers off FleaBay/CL means you must be willing and able to work on them too.

And don't forget you need a healthy amp with 5 or 7 channels.

[Dynacoman]

Your proposed setup is very close to mine. I use a stacked pr of L-150's for my left and right. A pr of L-112's for center and another pr of L-112's for surround. I hand built a pr of cabinets with 2245's for subs. It works pretty well for soundtracks but is fantastic for concert vids.

[dentcorn]

Well I just thought my budget would be somewhat like this:

L166's for main left and right - 600-700
Center Channel ? 200-300
Sides - Control 5's 25's Decade 26's, other ideas - about $50 a box, so $200
Powered sub, maybe homebrew, 500-1000

So Total for speakers 2200 or so
Receiver and player?
46-52" 1080P Plasma or LCD 2000-2500
Cables, etc.

So I suppose around $5,000
I this reasonable?
. Alos is a Dolby 7.1 worth going for?

[dentcorn]

Well I'm no expert on any of this. I just heard some of the newer JBL models at Circuit City or some such and I wasn't impressed. I remember when I bought my 166's it was down to the 166's, Yamaha NS-1000M, and ADS/Braun 810's I think. All fine speakers, but the JBL's won out due to their transparency and octave to octave balance. Also they were a little bit cheaper.
All I'm saying I've been out of the A/V scene for so long I'm open to any and all ideas as long as they stay somewhere around my budget.
(I have done quite a bit of PA work for barbershop/bluegrass groups but we use Mackie SA-1521zs, VLZ boards, dbx and presonus outboards, 450's and Schure and AKG mics)
Kirby

[dentcorn]

By the way Dynacoman I have a Stereo 120 and a PAT-4 I may be willing to part with. I built them many moons ago.

[Mr. Widget]

Well I just thought my budget would be somewhat like this:If you are going with a flat panel, spend a little more and get a Pioneer 50" plasma. They are seriously better than anything else. If you need an LCD due to reflections or gaming, get the Sony XBR the lesser Sonys are not very good and all of the other LCDs are not in the XBR league.

I would not go 7.1. The money spent on the extra speakers can be used elsewhere. I personally only find 7.1 really useful in larger rooms. For the surround speakers, I would use placeholder surround speakers until you have extra money. Just use anything... then get L26s or 4301s or something like that.

Find a third 166 for your center. You could also use L112 or L96... three L96s would be nice, but you have the 166s.

These are only one person's opinions, but I have helped people set up dozens of theaters and they have all been pretty successful. :bouncy:


Widget

[dentcorn]

Never thought of using a single 166 for center. What about sides? I see there is a pair of 2241H subs for sale on Ebay - how about those and one of those 500W BASH amps? Also I agree with you a Dolby 7.1 system would seem to be overkill. Awhile back there were tons of Decades available, now there is a virtual dearth of them.
Thanks for all the ideas, keep em coming.

[dentcorn]

By the way, what is an L96? How does it compare to L166's? And how do L166's compare to L110's and L112's and L150's?
Thanks

[dentcorn]

Have been gone for a couple of days...
Widget'... I was thinking of using around a 50" Pioneer plasma for the screen unless you have a better idea.
Also have problems finding any Decades for sale. Any other ideas. There also a couple of 2245H's for sale. What would those be worth....I think they need surrounds. Also, do I need two?. Figuring 8-10 cu. ft. per box make a fairly large unit. But 20-25 hz is the goal.
Are the L112'a similar sounding to the 166's? Never heard them...the 166's slipped by me...I want to use ny old 166's upstairs in a stand alone two channel system.
Oh, and what about some of the THX JBL side fill speakers that come up occasionally? Overkill?
Thanks again for all and any comments.
Kirby

[Mr. Widget]

Widget'... I was thinking of using around a 50" Pioneer plasma for the screen unless you have a better idea.The 50" Pioneers are excellent!

Widget

[robertbartsch]

Honestly, for the money - why not consider non-vintage JBL professional series drivers?

http://www.performanceaudio.com/cgi/browse_category.cgi?category=29&subcategory=95&brand=100&submit=Go%21

or

http://www.performanceaudio.com/media/pdf/100/1255_s.pdf


The new technology is far superior to the old vintage stuff IMO.

[elwood127]

Keep one thing in mind, LCD's loose pixels over time and are not warranteed. Plasma's suppossedly squeel at higher altitudes.
DLP's are the best picture from my side by side comparison. Also, they have user replaceable bulbs (about $400.00) so will last a lifetime.

[Mr. Widget]

DLPs are all over the map price and performance-wise... A Runco VX22d with anamorphic lens will set you back $80K, but they are awesome... a small data projector will be bright and crisp as hell but not very film like and the motion graphics suck... and if you mean a rear projection DLP set, they have severe off axis performance issues and are generally not as bright as Plasmas and LCDs.

Each technology has it's place, and all three can look very good.


Widget

[Titanium Dome]

Kirby, widget

I don't think there's anything that says "theatre" more than a projector and screen.

When I see a nice flat panel or big screen TV with a great sound system, I think, "Now there's a nice TV with a sound system. What a nice HT." I have a couple of these set ups (LCD flat panels and JBL surround system) and they look and sound great, but they're souped-up audio/video systems, not really theatres.

However, when I go downstairs, turn on the PJ to project an image on the big, white screen, and it's nice and dark in the room, and I can't really see the JBL Performance Series 7-channel set up with four subs, now that's being in a theatre.

This could be any room, not just a dedicated basement room with no windows, but for me a true cinema experience is a dark, dark room, expansive surround sound, a projected image on a big screen, and my sweetheart by my side (in a separate but close and comfortable seat). Then I'm at the movies.

You can do this in your stated budget, if you have the room to do it in. I've seen some big rec rooms that were totally unusable as real theatres during the day that were wonderful after the sun went down. With a flat panel display, you can watch TV or movies in surround sound day or night in such a room. With a great PJ you can have a truly great cinema experience at night, but unless you can control ambient light, it's not of much value during the day.

[Mr. Widget]

I don't think there's anything that says "theatre" more than a projector and screen.Absolutely... even a 65" plasma doesn't feel like a theater to me, but then not everyone has a dark room where they can mount an 8-10 ft screen. If you can, and you use the big Runco projector I mentioned, you have a video playback system that rivals many smaller theaters.


Widget

[dentcorn]

Is $275 a fair price for a freshly re-coned 2245h?
Thanks

[Mr. Widget]

Is $275 a fair price for a freshly re-coned 2245h?
ThanksYes, if it was done by a JBL authorized shop and they used the proper kit. Don't assume it was done properly, you need to verify it.


Widget

[jblsound]

You might want to consider using the L166 all around. Using identical speakers is the only way to go, imo. I've had HT setups with 7 L212s and 2~4 subs and 5 PT800s.
As for the current JBL offerings in places like BB, they only carried the lower end systems, that's why they didn't sound as good as the L166s.
Unfortunately, the better JBLs are harder to find (Performance Series, the yet to be released LS series, Studio L series) where you can do an audition.

[dentcorn]

Well, I finally got a 2245 bought on Ebay. If this MikeBake guy would quit bidding on everything I want it would sure speed up the process, ha. Anyways its nice to know that he has good taste, too. I never thought of using L166's all the way around. Maybe. If I don't, what should I use for center channel and surrounds? I heard that JBLs L2C2 (I think...) is a very good center channel speaker and I was thinking of using Control 5's for surrounds. I knw nothing about JBL's newer stuff, like L810, L820, L830 or S38's or any of their other newer stuff. Also there is a set of L50's for sale in Denver, so I could pick those up. If anyone can clue me in I would appreciate.
PS Also Cnet gives a review to a Panasonic 50 inch plasma that compares very favorably to the Pioneer for about 1200 less.
Thanks again,
Dentcorn
Kirby Atkins

[Mr. Widget]

I knw nothing about JBL's newer stuff, like L810, L820, L830 or S38's...Me either. :D



PS Also Cnet gives a review to a Panasonic 50 inch plasma that compares very favorably to the Pioneer for about 1200 less.Not in the same league.

If you watch Bluray and high def programming exclusively the Panasonic is almost as nice looking as the Pioneer, but if you watch any low rez stuff... the Panasonic looks pretty bad. Personally I don't like the Pioneer on the low rez stuff either, but it is about as good as you can do.


Widget

[jblsound]

Well, I finally got a 2245 bought on Ebay. If this MikeBake guy would quit bidding on everything I want it would sure speed up the process, ha. Anyways its nice to know that he has good taste, too. I never thought of using L166's all the way around. Maybe. If I don't, what should I use for center channel and surrounds? I heard that JBLs L2C2 (I think...) is a very good center channel speaker and I was thinking of using Control 5's for surrounds. I knw nothing about JBL's newer stuff, like L810, L820, L830 or S38's or any of their other newer stuff. Also there is a set of L50's for sale in Denver, so I could pick those up. If anyone can clue me in I would appreciate
Dentcorn
Kirby Atkins
To have a seamless front end you really need identical LCRs, or a speaker that uses the same drivers or a close match.
The LC2 is a very good center, but as to it being a close enough timbre match to the L166 is a crap shoot. I would bet not.
The entire Studio L series (L880, 890, 810, 820, 830, LC2, LC2) is a very good series. But I would either stick with all vintage or go all new, don't mix.

[jcrobso]

Many people have older JBL speakers and want to go 5.1.
My main JBL speakers are over 40 years old, my surrounds are 35 years old and my center is 2 years old. Since my fronts have D140Fs in a folded horn I don't use a sub.
I know there are many that claim the everything has to be matched. But I have found that in general 85~90 of the sound is from front speakers and dialog is mostly from the center.
I would be impossible for me to have matched L-C-R. The is no way I could get 15" woofer center speaker system in my living room, I would if I could.

When you look at the stuff that Bo$e sells any JBL speaker system will blow them away. John

[jblsound]

Many people have older JBL speakers and want to go 5.1.
My main JBL speakers are over 40 years old, my surrounds are 35 years old and my center is 2 years old. Since my fronts have D140Fs in a folded horn I don't use a sub.
I know there are many that claim the everything has to be matched. But I have found that in general 85~90 of the sound is from front speakers and dialog is mostly from the center.
I would be impossible for me to have matched L-C-R. The is no way I could get 15" woofer center speaker system in my living room, I would if I could.

When you look at the stuff that Bo$e sells any JBL speaker system will blow them away. John


Why would limit that statement to Bose? JBL systems are a whole lot better than many other brands, in any given price range. Despite what some clowns over at AVS think, as they just love their ID brands over there.
It is best to have matched speakers across the front from a same series. But there are different series that come close enough to do a good job of it.

[robertbartsch]

Most of the audio program material on 5.1 or 7.1 tracks comes through the front and center channels.

I have mixed JBL Professional and JBL vintage components on my 7.1 HT as follows:

1. (2) Front = 2226, 2426, 077
2. (1) Center = JBL 2426, 2206
3. (1) Sub = 2245
4. (2) Surrounds = vintage JBL L100s
5. (2) Rear = 2225, 2425

I'm powering the fronts with a Crown XLS 802 (500 watts x2), the subwoofer with a Dayton (500watt) SS and the remainder with my receiver amp - Onkyo (135 watts).

Today's receivers are very flexible and I can adjust the source material on each channel very easily.

[jcrobso]

Why would limit that statement to Bose? JBL systems are a whole lot better than many other brands, in any given price range. Despite what some clowns over at AVS think, as they just love their ID brands over there.
It is best to have matched speakers across the front from a same series. But there are different series that come close enough to do a good job of it.

Yes we all know that JBL is far better than most of the brands on the market, that is why we own them.

I admit, I do have a dislike for Bo$e products. This does get me in trouble from time to time. I go over to some one house and they want to show off their now Bo$e HT system and ask me what I think. I have learned to stop rolling on the floor laughing and just say, well if you like them it's your money. I know still not very tactful, Oh well!. John

[hjames]

Sell them off and get a few pairs of the 4 way L7 systems - they are awesome and quite affordable ... Put the money you saved into some serious amps, a good set and a pair of good modern subs ...
Subs are best in pairs ...

Save the L166s that you love so well for 2 channel music use!


I am a newbie here, but I have lurked quite awhile and I have owned a L166 Horizon system for 30 years which I absolutely love. Most of the newer speakers at twice the price do not sound as good to me!
My question is this: We are moving into another house with quite a large rec room and I plan to turn one end of it into a home theater setup. I would like to do this for about 4-5,000$.
Thanks, Kirby
PS Mixing consumer and pro models doesn't bother me.

[jblsound]

Yes we all know that JBL is far better than most of the brands on the market, that is why we own them.

I admit, I do have a dislike for Bo$e products. This does get me in trouble from time to time. I go over to some one house and they want to show off their now Bo$e HT system and ask me what I think. I have learned to stop rolling on the floor laughing and just say, well if you like them it's your money. I know still not very tactful, Oh well!. John
4 years ago when my daughter had just started dating her fiance, he came by to pick her up and while he was waiting he is bragging about his bose system, but needed a sub. I was thinking of selling a sub or two, at the time.

Less than 10 minutes later, while listening to my system, he asks how much I want for my main custom L212s, tell him not for sale.

Two years later, I bought a pair of L890s, just to have new speakers in another room, ended up giving them to my daughter for a wedding present, couldn't stand the thought of her having to listen to those crappy bose.

[speakerdave]

Widget speaks truth. The 50" Pioneer plasma is awesome. It's been on sale recently (four different prices in the last three weeks) and can still be had for $2195 including shipping from New York. White Glove available. PM me if interested.

I looked at the 60" at a local dealer, and it too is awesome. In fact, I think you cross a threshold with a 60": it makes a small theater, whereas the 50" is a large TV. A lot more expensive, though.

[Allanvh5150]

I just have to ask.....Since when did Pioneer make a product that wasn't fit for the skip?:blink:

[rgwalker]

Many people have older JBL speakers and want to go 5.1.
My main JBL speakers are over 40 years old, my surrounds are 35 years old and my center is 2 years old. Since my fronts have D140Fs in a folded horn I don't use a sub.
I know there are many that claim the everything has to be matched. But I have found that in general 85~90 of the sound is from front speakers and dialog is mostly from the center.
I would be impossible for me to have matched L-C-R. The is no way I could get 15" woofer center speaker system in my living room, I would if I could.

When you look at the stuff that Bo$e sells any JBL speaker system will blow them away. John

I have a pair of JBL Olympus (2 way w/single 15) speakers with 375 horn drivers in my TV surround system along with much smaller Infinity center and rears and an off brand powered 12" sub and a Sony 100 watt receiver.

I balanced the output settings and the system mixes very well and sounds wonderful on every pre set. The original Infinity system was very good and I used a pair of Altec Valencias for several years, which excelled with music, but the big old JBLs take the Home Theater experience to a new level.

Bob Walker

[Harkness]

i have just been getting my first HT setup going.. i just scored a great deal on a 50" plasma, and it sits nicely between my 1958 harkness boxes. needless to say, the movie sound from the 375/150-4C/2405 combination is incredible. such punchy dynamics and powerful delivery, even with a mid-fi integrated amp.

the next steps are to get a HDMI capable DVD player and a decent 5.1 preamp/amp of some kind. i have a nice power amp for the fronts that i would use. probably just use the 5.1 amp for the surround speakers. i just need to find some bookshelf speakers with great transient response for the rear surround channels. i don't need a sub or centre channel with the sound i get from my JBLs.