JBL unveils new LS series Loudspeakers

[hjames]

This is a very neat looking speaker with a wood finish that appears to be similar to the new Everest line ... Doyall posted this in another thread I didn't want the announcement to get lost in that discussion!



JBL to Unveil LS Series Loudspeakers at CEDIA Expo
Loudspeakers have 176ND high-frequency compression driver with 2-inch pure-titanium diaphragm.

http://www.cepro.com/images/uploads/jbl_ls80.jpg JBL LS80 Loudspeaker



Aug
19

By Jason Knott (http://www.cepro.com/community/bio/jknott)
Filed in: News (http://www.cepro.com/cedianews/topic/C5/), Product News (http://www.cepro.com/cedianews/topic/C1/), Speakers (http://www.cepro.com/cedianews/topic/C32/), CEDIA (http://www.cepro.com/cedianews/topic/C297/)
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08.19.2008 — JBL (http://www.cepro.com/mfg/jbl) will be introducing its LS Series of loudspeakers at CEDIA Expo 2008 (http://www.cepro.com/cedianews) (booth 580).

The LS Series includes four models: a compact bookshelf loudspeaker (LS40), two floorstanding tower speakers (LS60, LS80) and a dedicated center channel loudspeaker (LS Center).

LS Series loudspeakers combine compression drivers with dynamic drivers to achieve wide dynamic range, transient response and transparency of compression drivers.

Each loudspeaker has a 176ND high-frequency compression driver with a 2-inch pure-titanium diaphragm. The 176ND driver operates in conjunction with a Bi-Radial horn that is shaped to provide optimum dispersion in the horizontal and vertical planes for a smooth, neutral frequency response both on- and off-axis.

The LS Series 015M ultrahigh-frequency driver is a 3/4-inch ring-radiator design that has a low-mass diaphragm and delivers frequency extension beyond 40kHz.

The 015M is mounted in an Elliptical Oblate Spheroidal (EOS) waveguide to provide accurate imaging and create a stereo or multichannel listening environment.

All LS Series woofers use proprietary PolyPlas polymer-coated-cellulose-fiber cone material for the bass.

The LS80 employs a 3-1/2-way crossover network that allows the woofers to operate in different frequency ranges, a configuration that provides a smoother transition of directivity between all drivers.

LS Series loudspeakers have curved contours and side panels that are tapered from the front to the back.

JBL LS Series loudspeakers will be available in a high-gloss stained wood finish.

MSRP for the LS Series loudspeakers range from $1,998 to $3,998 per pair.

[hjames]

They sure are pretty - the wood finish looks similar to Everest DD66000
If the sound is right, maybe its time to sell off some vintage boxes and put some of these in our music room ...
I wonder who will be stocking them so we can check them out??

LS 80
http://www.jbl.com/home/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=LS80&Language=ENG&Country=DK&Region=EUROPE&cat=CLA&ser=LS

LS60
http://www.jbl.com/home/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=LS60&Language=ENG&Country=DK&Region=EUROPE&cat=CLA&ser=LS

LS40
http://www.jbl.com/home/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=LS40&Language=ENG&Country=DK&Region=EUROPE&cat=CLA&ser=LS


LS Center
http://www.jbl.com/home/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=LS%20CENTER/230&Language=ENG&Country=DK&Region=EUROPE&cat=CLA&ser=LS

LS Sub (400w 12")
http://www.jbl.com/home/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=LS120P/230&Language=ENG&Country=DK&Region=EUROPE&cat=CLA&ser=LS


The LS Series -
http://www.jbl.com/home/products/series.aspx?SerId=LS&Language=ENG&Country=DK&Region=EUROPE

Speaker images posted below -
LS40 LS60, LS80, LS120P Sub, LS Center

[BMWCCA]

Looks like the sub will be a must-have, even with the LS80s which show slightly worse LF response than an L5 (for comparison). But, as we've discussed before, what's the chance these will be in-stock and on-review anywhere anyone can hear them outside of some manufacturer's rep in NYC?

JBL needs to exploit what little consumer cachet they have left, while they have it. If they're not going have dealers, they may as well have JBL stores like Apple (not like Sony or Bose!), or (also like Apple) boutiques within high-volume retailers like Best Buy. $66,000 speakers may sell on pictures and exclusivity. Stuff in this range COULD sell, if anyone could hear them. How 'bout a group by for the LH group, direct from Harman?

Does the fact that the owner's manual seems to indicate that these are products of JBL France have any bearing on whether or not we'll see them for sale here in the USA?

[4313B]

Why don't you just call JBL Consumer and find out? They're just a phone call and several automated response buttons away. Call a few JBL Reps and ask them what they think is going on. Post the results. :)

[demon]

they look scared...

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=33849&stc=1&d=1219236105

is it because they are facing such a difficult market?
i will try to find out if they are available in austria and take a close look.


cheers,
mikey

[Mr. Widget]

Looks like the sub will be a must-have, even with the LS80s which show slightly worse LF response than an L5 (for comparison). I know a fellow who auditioned a pair of LS80s in Singapore earlier this year and was quite smitten by them... and he likes lots of bass.


Widget

[Titanium Dome]

These nearly one-year-old models will officially arrive in the US in a week or two at CEDIA Expo.

http://www.cepro.com/article/jbl_to_unveil_ls_series_loudspeakers_at_cedia_expo/K1

I wouldn't expect to see them in stores before then.

[rdgrimes]

I wouldn't expect to see them in stores before then.
You're expecting to see them in stores???? :blink: You are an optimist, aren't you?

[Titanium Dome]

These are a Charles Sprinkle designed model, along with Dan Ashcraft (of Ashcraft Design). Sprinkle did the Venue Series as well.

Sprinkle started as an intern at Harman, so never doubt the opportunities that interning can provide.

[Titanium Dome]

Here. You can read for yourselves.

[Titanium Dome]

You're expecting to see them in stores???? :blink: You are an optimist, aren't you?

Yes, I am an optimist. :yes:

I expect to be surprised by a major marketing and distribution alliance in time for the holiday selling season.

Oh, and by the way, for me the definition of the word "store" includes brick and mortar establishments and online retailers. In this case, I see a brick and mortar retailer in my crystal ball. There will be plenty of online sales points, too.

[rdgrimes]

Yes, I am an optimist. :yes:

I expect to be surprised by a major marketing and distribution alliance in time for the holiday selling season.

Oh, and by the way, for me the definition of the word "store" includes brick and mortar establishments and online retailers. In this case, I see a brick and mortar retailer in my crystal ball. There will be plenty of online sales points, too.
You must have a more expensive crystal ball than I do.

[Titanium Dome]

You must have a more expensive crystal ball than I do.

I got mine free when I graduated from the school of hard knocks. :dancin:

[brutal]

Bah, someone put the surrounds on the wrong side.

;)

[Mr. Widget]

Here. You can read for yourselves.Hey, Thanks Dome. I just read this post and discovered that Dan Ashcraft went to my Alma Mater. Who knew?

I guess if I read more of the PR literature, I'd be a bit better informed. :o:


Widget

[demon]

this weekend i found that in the new "stereo magazin" (german) they tested the LS80 as new arrival.
i just flew over the test (because i dont give so much about these magazines) but they said something like powerful, relaxed and room-filling, good for rockmusic and fun to listen to. everest heritage and horn-smalltalk (jbl = the one hornspecialist, who knew?), resume is that they are overall good, but lack a bit of finesse or something.
absolutely what i expected, typical magazine review.
reminding me of a wonderful film:
"he who talks loud, saying nothing!"

:blah:

here you can skip thru the issue:
http://www.stereo.de/aktuelleausgabe/index.html


i will try to find a pair to listen to.
cheers, mikey

[jblsound]

These nearly one-year-old models will officially arrive in the US in a week or two at CEDIA Expo.

http://www.cepro.com/article/jbl_to_unveil_ls_series_loudspeakers_at_cedia_expo/K1

I wouldn't expect to see them in stores before then.
Lets hope they don't just go to Synthesis dealers, like the PS did. Other than Tweeters, for a short time, and Nebraska Furniture Mart, the PS wasn't found in stores. Tweeters only carried the PT800, no center, sub.
Having read the info for the LS, they seem like a very good system.

[jblsound]

I just talked to a JBL parts rep, and I asked about the LS series and the info he had is that they should be available in Oct, maybe late Sept.
But when I asked about what dealers, he told me that had not been determined yet.

[shaansloan]

I just talked to a JBL parts rep, and I asked about the LS series and the info he had is that they should be available in Oct, maybe late Sept.
But when I asked about what dealers, he told me that had not been determined yet.

How would these compare to the HLS series? Or the Studio L series? This seems like a much higher end speaker....

[jblsound]

How would these compare to the HLS series? Or the Studio L series? This seems like a much higher end speaker....
No way of knowing w/o hearing them.

[Titanium Dome]

The HLS Series was surprisingly good for its market segment, but it's still a fairly low-end product compared to current lines. I don't think there's a direct comparison that can be made.

Despite the fact that the HLS Series has a horn-like design, I wouldn't consider them in the same design category as the LS Series.

[jblsound]

I think the real question, at this point in time, is not how good the LS series will be, but where they will show up. At this time even Harman doesn't know, as what I was told yesterday.

[Titanium Dome]

They're going to show up here, that's for sure. Harman/JBL has more floor space than just about anyone else at CEDIA Expo, especially if you combine the two booths (580 and 670). Let's hope they're trying to generate some retail interest with this expensive presence.

[jblsound]

They're going to show up here, that's for sure. Harman/JBL has more floor space than just about anyone else at CEDIA Expo, especially if you combine the two booths (580 and 670). Let's hope they're trying to generate some retail interest with this expensive presence.
Ya, we know they will be at CEDIA. But retail that is currently the problem.
Aside from the fact most people don't consider CC sales staff any better than BB staff, one thing is true. When CC sold JBLs they had many different series there, including the top of line 250Ti, in the "80's. I never saw any JBL lines other than the bottom one or two series @ BB.
I would consider a move back to CC a big step up from BB.
But if that level of product still holds true at CC today, I don't know.
Eight years ago, when CC sold Infinity, they didn't have the Prelude MTS. I had to go down to LaserLand in San Jose to audition those. I just found out that LL has since closed.

[BMWCCA]

I would consider a move back to CC a big step up from BB.Just how often do rats board a sinking ship?
BusinessWeek: Circuit City Gives Up the Fight (http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/may2008/db2008059_133176.htm)
And even that merger failed when Blockbuster backed out. Here's a good view of the history of CC. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circuit_City)

This past year has not been a good one for them, or anyone for that matter. Unless you're Steve Jobs and Apple Computer.

[SEAWOLF97]

I would consider a move back to CC a big step up from BB.

Was just reading an article on how the detested DIVX nearly sank CC, they had greedy intentions and business never fully recovered after that fiasco. That alone almost killed the future of regular DVD.

[jblsound]

Just how often do rats board a sinking ship?
BusinessWeek: Circuit City Gives Up the Fight (http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/may2008/db2008059_133176.htm)
And even that merger failed when Blockbuster backed out. Here's a good view of the history of CC. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circuit_City)

This past year has not been a good one for them, or anyone for that matter. Unless you're Steve Jobs and Apple Computer.
I was thinking more of what CC carried in speaker lines compared to BB. But now that you've mentioned their money problems, which I forgotten about, as I wrote that last post, I guess it wouldn't be too good of a move.
Last year I went into a new CC, north of Reno. It looked like a big barn, compared to the first store in Reno, which has 4 or 5 separate audio rooms. The new store had almost nothing for speakers, which this post just reminded me of that fact.

[Titanium Dome]

CC has played it poorly on many fronts:

Dumb, ineffective (and sometimes obnoxious) advertising
Dumb, ineffective (and sometimes obnoxious) employees
Dumb, ineffective (and sometimes obnoxious) displays
Dumb, ineffective (and sometimes obnoxious) retail layouts
Dumb, ineffective (and sometimes obnoxious) sales, purchase, and return policies

So, I'm not thinking JBL will benefit by being there. OTOH, if JBL did return it would be an unexpected plus for CC, especially if Harman took a page out of Apple's book and handled the staff training itself. It's clear CC can't train its people.

Nevertheless, going back to CC is not a good answer unless there are major changes; the same would hold true for BB. If you lie down with pigs, expect to get dirty (no offense to swine intended).

The only way for Harman to penetrate is through a large general merchandise chain or two. It needs to hire someone who's smart in current retail (not the retail of the 60s, 70s, 80s, or 90s) and who can carve out a Harman-centric experience for general consumers.

Screw the specialty stores. Screw the appliance big boxes. And screw the regional chains. Harman needs big penetration.

The ES/LS Series combo in conjunction with current iPod/portable speaker brand identity could provide the product mix, and Harman brass would need to kiss some ass to get a nonexclusive co-marketing deal with a national retailer with hundreds or thousands of stores.

[Mr. Widget]

The only way for Harman to penetrate is through a large general merchandise chain or two...

Screw the specialty stores. Screw the appliance big boxes. And screw the regional chains.Who? Macy's? Walmart?

Thank god none of us are responsible for these decisions. It's gotta be tough. This whole market segment is hurting.

I'd suggest you copy the best. Follow the Apple and Bose model. Don't copy either literally, but make it more like the Apple store than the Bose... Put an exciting Synthesis theater in the shop and place them in major retail areas to show the public just how bad the "Bose Experience" is and then send them off home with the JBL branded nano crap that people are inclined to buy. Hopefully a few will actually buy Array Series and other higher quality products from JBL.

...and don't forget turntables. Kids today are buying up turntables and $2 used records like crazy. Hire some young hip kids to show off just how good a turntable can sound through a decent system and they could start a whole new phenomenon... we could call it "Hi-Fi".:D


Widget

[Skywave-Rider]

That's a great idea.
Add a cafe and a performance space.
You're selling a lifestyle.


Who? Macy's? Walmart?

Thank god none of us are responsible for these decisions. It's gotta be tough. This whole market segment is hurting.

I'd suggest you copy the best. Follow the Apple and Bose model. Don't copy either literally, but make it more like the Apple store than the Bose... Put an exciting Synthesis theater in the shop and place them in major retail areas to show the public just how bad the "Bose Experience" is and then send them off home with the JBL branded nano crap that people are inclined to buy. Hopefully a few will actually buy Array Series and other higher quality products from JBL.

...and don't forget turntables. Kids today are buying up turntables and $2 used records like crazy. Hire some young hip kids to show off just how good a turntable can sound through a decent system and they could start a whole new phenomenon... we could call it "Hi-Fi".:D


Widget

[BMWCCA]

It might start with Harman planting a pair of Everest in the headquarters in Cupertino——right next to the BMW motorcycle Jobs put there two-decades ago to show what quality meant. Next you'll see JBL boutiques inside the Apple Stores. Heck, Apple should really be marketing home theaters since they're targeting their iTV and Macs at the total mult-media home anyway.

Have you noticed what a pathetic selection of any audio equipment (not just speakers) Best Buy has in their stores these days? It's a joke. They have more floor space devoted to answering machines and cell phones.

[SEAWOLF97]

You're selling a lifestyle.

I live not too far from Nike's world headquarters and we seem to get limited distribution news.

NIKE has always said "we dont sell products, we sell a lifestyle"

[jblsound]

Have you noticed what a pathetic selection of any audio equipment (not just speakers) Best Buy has in their stores these days? It's a joke. They have more floor space devoted to answering machines and cell phones.

That's the reason for my half baked thought of CC, I remember when CC was selling the 250Ti, be it 20 years ago. When was the last time you saw a high end JBL in BB. answer~never.



Put an exciting Synthesis theater in the shop and place them in major retail areas to show the public just how bad the "Bose Experience" is and then send them off home with the JBL branded nano crap that people are inclined to buy. Hopefully a few will actually buy Array Series and other higher quality products from JBL.

It would have to be Harman flipping the bill. I've yet to see a Synthesis dealer that has a showroom, one might somewhere, but not near enough.


Dumb, ineffective (and sometimes obnoxious) advertising
Dumb, ineffective (and sometimes obnoxious) employees
Dumb, ineffective (and sometimes obnoxious) displays
Dumb, ineffective (and sometimes obnoxious) retail layouts
Dumb, ineffective (and sometimes obnoxious) sales, purchase, and return policies
That sounds more like BB to me, and you can throw in Mag HT.
One clown in my local Mag HT corner, didn't understand, actually just didn't know, the concept to gain just 3db you have to double the amp's power output. He tried telling me a 100w receiver was much more powerful than an 80w receiver. Man, did I straighten him out.

[Mr. Widget]

It would have to be Harman flipping the bill.That was my point. We are not living in the same market that existed during the '60s thru the mid '80s where there was a great demand for this stuff and any schmuck could set up a store filled with good inventory and make a living at selling Hi-Fi gear. Today there are far too many other distractions and the audio portion of the home entertainment equation is simply not that important to the average consumer.

That is not to say that there is no demand or that there can not be more demand. Bang and Olufsen and Bose both have factory owned stores that sell their gear... much like Nike and Apple do. It seems to me that with Harman's market dominance they should sell the Harman Lifestyle. They could make it appear '60s cool with a blend of the higher end and entry level product. It would not be cheap, but a few well placed stores, perhaps with cafes and live music, could go a long way toward building brand awareness and possibly even creating a new market.


Widget

[Titanium Dome]

That was my point. We are not living in the same market that existed during the '60s thru the mid '80s where there was a great demand for this stuff and any schmuck could set up a store filled with good inventory and make a living at selling Hi-Fi gear. Today there are far too many other distractions and the audio portion of the home entertainment equation is simply not that important to the average consumer.

That is not to say that there is no demand or that there can not be more demand. Bang and Olufsen and Bose both have factory owned stores that sell their gear... much like Nike and Apple do. It seems to me that with Harman's market dominance they should sell the Harman Lifestyle. They could make it appear '60s cool with a blend of the higher end and entry level product. It would not be cheap, but a few well placed stores, perhaps with cafes and live music, could go a long way toward building brand awareness and possibly even creating a new market.


Widget

Egad! You're almost making my point. :p

I think Harman could sell a lifestyle, but it's not ready to roll in the full retail yet. It doesn't have the talent or the vision, though with the new CEO maybe... :dont-know

You'll remember that Apple teamed up with CompUSA to get deeper penetration while it started its own retail initiative. It was the store within a store concept that actually worked very well at those locations where Apple trained and placed employees, and it sucked dill pickles where CompUSA trained and staffed it.

While CompUSA sufficed to buoy Apple's retail presence while it built out its own Apple stores, it was too moribund to actually survive. Still, it offered hundreds of retail outlets at a time when Apple needed retail outlets, and it got people in to look at iMacs and iBooks. Once the sale was made, the new Macheads didn't need (and in some cases couldn't) to go back to CompUSA to buy up the chain to PowerBooks and PowerMacs.

I hadn't thought about Macy's. I had thought about Wal-Mart and discounted it. I was thinking more along the lines of CostCo and Target. They both sell lifestyle already, and the demos should hit the target market pretty nicely.

In both chains I've been to the "electronics" area and seen the wide range of gorgeous to grotesque merchandise there. Two stocking trends I've seen are better and better video products (read: flat panel TVs) and tons of crapola mini audio systems (read: everything but the better iPod docks and even some of them). Yet some of the nicest audio gear there is JBL: Creature II, OnStage, etc.

A clever person at Harmon could broker a non-exclusive deal to shovel all that crapola into the dumpster and replace the entire wall with the Harman Experience (can't really use Lifestyle, you know).

Say, what's that great looking kit on the end, there? JBL ES speakers, eh? I can take home a whole set of these beauties for how much?

And the addiction begins. :bouncy:

[Mr. Widget]

I agree that Target has a much better grasp on style than Walmart, however I think their staff would make those CompUSA sales people look like members of the Apple Genius Bar. Costco? Have some electric skillet fried fish while you enjoy the sounds of the Everests??? :blink:

We agree that it would be nice for Harman and JBL to do a better job of marketing their products. Beyond that, I think we see the problem rather differently.


Widget

[BMWCCA]

Start with two Lifestyle/Experience Centers: LA and NYC. See how it goes and slowly expand into the largest urban markets. In areas not represented, use the boutique-within-a-store in places like Best Buy.

Oh, I'm sorry, that's the recipe Apple uses and it obviously isn't working for them. ;)

Even Porsche thought this was a good idea back in the early '90s. Get rid of dealers by opening factory-owned sales centers in the largest metro areas. Let existing dealers remain as service locations with minimal displays in support of sales. Of course the dealers didn't like the idea and, in the end, state franchise law protected the dealers from seeing the concept move to implementation. For JBL, it would seem, there are no dealers to voice such opposition. Doesn't Harman have enough consumer brands to exploit their appeal collectively?


http://www.harmanaudio.com/site_info/images/infinity.gif (http://www.infinitysystems.com/) http://www.harmanaudio.com/site_info/images/jbl.gif (http://www.jbl.com/) http://www.harmanaudio.com/site_info/images/harmankardon.gif (http://www.harmankardon.com/)

[Titanium Dome]

Egad! You're almost making my point. :p

I think Harman could sell a lifestyle, but it's not ready to roll in the full retail yet. It doesn't have the talent or the vision, though with the new CEO maybe... :dont-know

You'll remember that Apple teamed up with CompUSA to get deeper penetration while it started its own retail initiative. It was the store within a store concept that actually worked very well at those locations where Apple trained and placed employees, and it sucked dill pickles where CompUSA trained and staffed it.




I agree that Target has a much better grasp on style than Walmart, however I think their staff would make those CompUSA sales people look like members of the Apple Genius Bar. Costco? Have some electric skillet fried fish while you enjoy the sounds of the Everests??? :blink:

We agree that it would be nice for Harman and JBL to do a better job of marketing their products. Beyond that, I think we see the problem rather differently.


Widget

Yes, you're trying to accentuate the differences without accepting the obvious confluence of ideas.

Who wrote that Everests would be in store?
Who wrote that typical store staff would be adequate?

Making extreme, implausible statements may be clever and amusing, but you can't hide your progressive mind behind 20th Century cliches and old school business quotes. This is the very stuff that Harman needs to get beyond if it is to move into a new phase of business success.

Nearly 50% of companies last less than 40 years. The average human in the US lives decades longer than most companies. Look at the Fortune 500 list from 30 years ago. How many of those companies exist today? Mergers, buyouts, bankruptcies, investment capitalists (parasites) took many of them out of existence by playing the old rules and using the old mindset.

Harman almost bit the big one following the same line of thinking.

[Mr. Widget]

Making extreme, implausible statements may be clever and amusing, but you can't hide your progressive mind behind 20th Century cliches and old school business quotes. This is the very stuff that Harman needs to get beyond if it is to move into a new phase of business success.We are not on the board at Harman making suggestions for a marketing group to run the numbers and get back to us. We are a couple of enthusiasts making wild speculations and suggestions.

As for clever or amusing... I was trying to make the point that I thought it would be better if they went significantly up market in their appearance rather than gloss over a corner of a warehouse or a discount chain. Even Bose is doing better than that and you know Harman has deeper pockets and a higher quality product line than they do. I am suggesting they think BIG. Nike and Apple have done very well with this concept.

It has to be done right though. The Sony Stores don't seem to be as successful. The problem as I see it is that Sony's products like JBLs have been turned into commodities. By that I mean, people will drive across town to save $25 on a product, and if the Sony or JBL isn't the cheapest product in a category, the consumer will simply buy a different brand. Bose like Apple has been good at convincing consumers that there is no alternative.


Widget

[JBL 4645]

I like the JBL LS40 but. Whoa £900 a pair!
http://www.classic-hi-fi.co.uk/acatalog/JBL_-_LS40.html (http://www.classic-hi-fi.co.uk/acatalog/JBL_-_LS40.html)

I like the finish product look and the silky smooth shine of the enclosure, oh yummy I like those LS40 is there anyone interested in helping knock off post office for a few grand I want 6!:D Just kidding, £900.00 pounds! Those are sexy JBL :smsex:

http://www.harmanaudio.com/images/products/front_large/LS40.jpg (http://www.harmanaudio.com/images/products/front_large/LS40.jpg)

[JBL 4645]

I couldn’t find a picture of the rear view in full! Are these bass reflex are they ported at the rear? That’s the best view of the rear I can find on Google image.

http://www.hifi.nl/gfx/JBL_LS_Series_sv_190208.jpg

[jblsound]

Two things have become obvious over the last few years, at least to me. And they are going in opposite directions.
First, I've heard from a number of B&M store owners that they will no longer sell Harman products.
The last time I heard that locally was a store owner in Carson City, who had sold Infinity speakers for a number of years. During that same point in time (late '90's ~ early 2000's) Infinitys were also sold at CC, at a much higher volume, thus lower prices. I don't know if that had anything to do with his decision. As such, maybe he figured that Harman hung him out to dry, as there was no way he could compete with CC.

The other thing is walking through B&M, like BB, Fry's, CC etc, or their web sites, or the web sites of ID only stores, the one speaker brand that seems to have the most models available, at the most dealers is Polk.
I don't really know why that is. Maybe Polk presents a higher profit margin/unit than any other brand.
Polk is not the best brand, you can buy, but its also far from the worst.
At this point in time there are no dealers in No NV that sell JBL or Infinity, other than one, maybe two, custom install only dealers.

[hjames]

I couldn’t find a picture of the rear view in full! Are these bass reflex are they ported at the rear? That’s the best view of the rear I can find on Google image.

http://www.hifi.nl/gfx/JBL_LS_Series_sv_190208.jpg

I'm guessing that means they are biWire capable, like the Studio L series.
They look to be sealed boxes, also like the Studio L series ...

Maybe if you are budget oriented, you should snap up some of the Studio L series speakers that are on exceptionally good closeout prices right now!

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=218788&postcount=467

[Mr. Widget]

Maybe if you are budget oriented, you should snap up some of the Studio L series speakers that are on exceptionally good closeout prices right now!
I realize that Mr. Dome and I and a few others have gotten a bit off topic, but why would anyone want to be a Harman dealer when you have to compete against this bottom feeder mentality.

http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_browse/default.asp?sp=S&brand=JBL&market=HOM

There are many on this forum who have enjoyed great pricing on their JBLs from this sort of avenue, but the fact is that you'd be a pretty stupid dealer to offer these products in a retail environment when the manufacturer is constantly offering "great blow out deals."


Widget

[hjames]

But if a "customer" is NEVER going to buy speakers at "Whoa, £900 a pair!"
and you can sell him some older aged stock (refurbs) thats being obsoleted anyway, why wouldn't you?

Its on the shelf at Harman, they are paying to warehouse it, its not the "latest, greatest" -
should they just destroy it like that Revox gear (or was that metrotech) ??

Its plastic coated product, not at all in the same league as that nicely stained wood Everest style LS series ...

What am I missing here?




I realize that Mr. Dome and I and a few others have gotten a bit off topic, but why would anyone want to be a Harman dealer when you have to compete against this bottom feeder mentality.

http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_browse/default.asp?sp=S&brand=JBL&market=HOM

There are many on this forum who have enjoyed great pricing on their JBLs from this sort of avenue, but the fact is that you'd be a pretty stupid dealer to offer these products in a retail environment when the manufacturer is constantly offering "great blow out deals."


Widget

[Robh3606]

but the fact is that you'd be a pretty stupid dealer to offer these products in a retail environment when the manufacturer is constantly offering "great blow out deals."

And they can do that becasue they don't have a dealer network to get pissed off at them. As long as the Waranty is the same as brick and mortar you can get some real deals. I wonder how much of their business is basically Factory Direct over the internet. That seems to be the best business model as long as you price accordingly and you offer a 30 day return policy.

Well if wanting your money to go as far as it can makes you a bottom feeder well sign me up across the board.

Harmon will do whatever it see's as the best short term path for survival. If they miss the long term big picture 5 years down the road they will be in good company.

Look what's happened to CD sales. Talk about big business missing the boat.

Rob:)

[edgewound]

I agree that Target has a much better grasp on style than Walmart, however I think their staff would make those CompUSA sales people look like members of the Apple Genius Bar. Costco? Have some electric skillet fried fish while you enjoy the sounds of the Everests??? :blink:

We agree that it would be nice for Harman and JBL to do a better job of marketing their products. Beyond that, I think we see the problem rather differently.


Widget

This whole discussion of where to find the JBL good stuff is interesting.

GT shrugged when I asked him 2 CES's ago why this line isn't available in the US. The real answer is...Gina is now gone.

Longterm, we can speculate that the marketing minds at Harman have been building brand awareness among a new generation with the itty bitty iPod stuff. As they mature and go upscale they will know of JBL and search it out. The problem right now is where to find it. Currently, the largest demographic in history with the most collective wealth in history is the Baby Boomers. I think some of the real audio lovers inside Harman are trying like hell to get the reins to sell to this market. Covering both ends of the market is not easy, marketing wise with one brand.

But...if you take the example of car companies like Mercedes and Porsche, they seem to do it well with models ranges that cover "entry-level" to extreme up-market. Maybe that's what Harman is attempting to do now that some obstacles are out of the way.

One thing has been clear with Harman's dealers. They're not easy to do business with. It takes a huge financial commitment to keep the product franchise which is a tough go for small dealers. Either that facet has to change with keeping small dealers protected from big box stores from selling the high-dollar-margin goods that discount to the bone....or they need to go the direct sales route with company stores...like the previous mentioned brands...Apple, Bose,etc.

A commoditized industry gets pretty tough to stay competitive in....for that matter....stay in business at all.

For the most part...seeing these "real" JBL products being anounced for US consumption is a positive sign. Styles cycles tend to revolve about every thirty years, so hopefully JBL's renaissance will come around again.

[Robh3606]

For the most part...seeing these "real" JBL products being anounced for US consumption is a positive sign. Styles cycles tend to revolve about every thirty years, so hopefully JBL's renaissance will come around again.

Hello Edgewound

Back in the day I used to be able to walk into at least 2 dealers that had the full line on display short of a Paragon. They had it all from the S8R System in both cabinet styles to the L16 Decades all hooked up and ready to audition. All you had to do was ask and they didn't care if you were there to kick tires. Bring your own records, no problem que em right up. It was a wonderful time to be into this hobby as you could find similar dealers for any of the major brands.

I would really like a place where I could go to hear these new systems. I hope the style change you mention will come around but honestly I have my doubts as this beast the internet has changed so many things including how things are purchased, sold and advertised.

Rob:)

[jblsound]

Ya, I miss those days too. Which is why I drove over to Sac two summers ago just to listen to the L890s, wasn't planning on buying any. But I did bring a pair home. At that time, there weren't too many ID selling that series, besides harmanaudio.com factory store, for the same price as I paid in Fry's. Since then, those prices, at times, have dropped to almost half on other web sites.
I don't how long harman's ebay store has been there, which has mostly auctions, and generally sell for less than the factory site.

Over the last two years, I would have to think most of JBL sales have been via the net, considering BB only carried the cheapest lines and never had the Studo L series, except for awhile, online, the L890 but for $100/pr more than I paid in store at Fry's.

And everyone I know of that has managed to get their hands on the PS have all had the same thought process, why are these so hard to find, being as good as they are. And now supposed to be discontinued after 7 years.

[Mr. Widget]

What am I missing here?By dumping product you dilute the brand... it doesn't seem to damage the apparel industry where "factory stores" sell second rate merchandise with a similar look to the high end product, but in Harman's case, while it may allow them to make a profit at one end of the market it certainly hurts them in their ability to attract and keep independent dealers as well as lessening the appeal of JBL and Infinity with the audio enthusiasts. But more to the point, most of us here echo Rob's post below:


I would really like a place where I could go to hear these new systems.



But...if you take the example of car companies like Mercedes and Porsche, they seem to do it well with models ranges that cover "entry-level" to extreme up-market.Yes they do and they are successful because the experience is the same whether you buy an affordable car or one that costs as much as a house. The salesmen are well trained, the service department is staffed by professionals, and the atmosphere is pleasant and inviting. Also, they do not have an on-line shop undercutting their dealers.



For the most part...seeing these "real" JBL products being anounced for US consumption is a positive sign. Styles cycles tend to revolve about every thirty years, so hopefully JBL's renaissance will come around again.I hope so.

B&W has been able to offer high end and affordable speakers in boutique stores and more mass merchandising types of stores. Maybe JBL will be able to as well, but I doubt they will be able to pull it off without a significant change in their image, overall offerings, and distribution.


Widget

[hjames]

I'm taking this way too personal -
i just hope JBL survives somehow ...

[Mr. Widget]

I'm taking this way too personal -
Personal?



i just hope JBL survives somehow ...I think we all do.

However, if they survive to only sell iPod systems, then they might as well be gone. Currently though that is far from the case. This new LS series looks interesting and they seem to be offering more and more quality gear here.

Remember back a few years ago when we had this same sort of rant and it was mostly about how we couldn't buy the K2-S9800 in the USA? Now we can buy them. Now we are complaining because we can't go to a local shop and audition them. :) With luck, maybe that too will change.


Widget

[jblsound]

Yes, the LS series does look interesting, and I would think a quite few steps up from the Venue and ES and even the Studio L. The Studio L series is at least three steps up from the Venue series, I didn't think much of that series (Venue), from what I heard in BB. Just as well JBL dropped it.
One guy over at AVS bought the Venue Stage Floorstanders, thought it was good, until he decided to get the Studio L830 bookshelf. He went on and on about how much better the L830 was over the Venue Stage.

I haven't heard the ES so I don't know how it fairs against the Venue and Studio L series, but I would think somewhere in between.

So it would seem JBL is going in the right direction, quality wise, in the mass market part of audio. Now if they can only do better than BB or CC.

[JBL 4645]

I'm guessing that means they are biWire capable, like the Studio L series.
They look to be sealed boxes, also like the Studio L series ...

Maybe if you are budget oriented, you should snap up some of the Studio L series speakers that are on exceptionally good closeout prices right now!

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=218788&postcount=467


Heather dear, I’m not made of money and I do like compact speakers for extremely tight spaces and £900.00 pounds for just a pair.

I agree they look to be sealed nice binding posts, I’m puzzled as to why only two when there a three-way, surly some would like to have each element amplified separately for greater dynamic range.

[hjames]

- I’m puzzled as to why only two when there a three-way, surely some would like to have each element amplified separately for greater dynamic range.




Do a search here on "biwire" to find out why its 2 pair and not 3 ...
(c'mon, this is BASIC stuff)

and my L820s came yesterday - under $200 pair - now c'mon, thats WAY under £900.00 pair!!
surly you can afford that instead of all those leetle plastic boxes stapled to the walls!

[JBL 4645]

But...if you take the example of car companies like Mercedes and Porsche, they seem to do it well with models ranges that cover "entry-level" to extreme up-market. Maybe that's what Harman is attempting to do now that some obstacles are out of the way.


I doubt many of those fancy cars are even sold given there maybe 6 or 8 billion of us on this little planet floating in the back void of space…

But the price is right in some ways and yet I can’t understand if I was to look around and see JBL huge speaker with 15” bass mid and horn going for far less and thou its cosmetic appearance may seem ugly, it’s the finished look most of us have to pay for I guess?

I do like the finished look very chic and stylish makes my control 5 seem ugly.:(
Black how morbid, its no wonder my friends don’t like my JBL control 5.:D

You know I’ve had a few clumsy incidents where they have falling onto the floor from 3 feet and yet still intact LOL! If that was wood it would be all patched up with duck-tape by now LOL!:D


So my hat is off to JBL for making foolproof loudspeaker :applaud: that can be practically thrown around the room and serve the hash environment.

[JBL 4645]

Do a search here on "biwire" to find out why its 2 pair and not 3 ...
(c'mon, this is BASIC stuff)

and my L820s came yesterday - under $200 pair - now c'mon, thats WAY under £900.00 pair!!
surly you can afford that instead of all those leetle plastic boxes stapled to the walls!


You know if I had a pair, “if” right now, I’ll remove most of the wiring that connects to the drivers and power it up with a DCX2496 in three-way mode, it’s not a huge challenge but it does make it frustrating when JBL could have just stuck a three-way binding post on the back rather than a two-way input.

The Horn to ultra high I can see how that’s wired, with bass mid having its own separate input, there are those who like to power it individually.

[jblsound]

You know if I had a pair, “if” right now, I’ll remove most of the wiring that connects to the drivers and power it up with a DCX2496 in three-way mode, it’s not a huge challenge but it does make it frustrating when JBL could have just stuck a three-way binding post on the back rather than a two-way input.

The Horn to ultra high I can see how that’s wired, with bass mid having its own separate input, there are those who like to power it individually.
All these new JBLs that have come along since the Performance Series have bi-wiring post. The idea is to separate the bass or mid-bass from the mids and highs.
AS to if bi-wiring does any good, that's another subject.
Its not the same as bi-amping a speaker, using an active crossover, which most consumers aren't going to be bothered with.

[JBL 4645]

All these new JBLs that have come along since the Performance Series have bi-wiring post. The idea is to separate the bass or mid-bass from the mids and highs.
AS to if bi-wiring does any good, that's another subject.
Its not the same as bi-amping a speaker, using an active crossover, which most consumers aren't going to be bothered with.

Well I’m a little picky these days now.:D

[hjames]

Well I’m a little picky these days now.:D
picky and wrong ...
The man TOLD you it wasn't bi-AMPing, biWIRE is different ...

really ...
google on the words ,
... read a few lines,
... ... get smart tonight!

besides, what do you care??
- you aren't going to buy them anyway!!
They aren't little frickin' plastic speakers!!

[Mr. Widget]

and my L820s came yesterday Oh. Now I understand the personal bit. :) I didn't realize... however, I was not condemning anyone who avails themselves of Harman's marketing system. I was simply pointing out that it is because of deals like that, that no dealer in America is going to stock this stuff. It doesn't work out for them. Perhaps before the internet a company could blow out gear in a local market, but today the whole country is pretty much one market.

I hope your new speakers turn out to be just what you wanted and you enjoy them.



Widget

[Mr. Widget]

All these new JBLs that have come along since the Performance Series have bi-wiring post. The idea is to...I think the idea is that everyone else has been doing it for sometime now and JBL is simply following the trend. It started years ago with some high end speakers and eventually down market speakers started doing it as an inexpensive way to appear more up market.


Widget

[Titanium Dome]

I think the idea is that everyone else has been doing it for sometime now and JBL is simply following the trend. It started years ago with some high end speakers and eventually down market speakers started doing it as an inexpensive way to appear more up market.


Widget

You're right, but I do hate those darn plated bridging straps. I replace them all with short lengths of speaker wire for a surer and longer-lasting connection.

I once measured the resistance at each pair of terminals connected by the straps, then remeasured them 12 months later (New Years Day to New Years Day). The values had risen by 0.9 to 1.2 from previous readings. All the straps came off that day to be replaced by wire. The values immediately returned to the former levels.

Inspection revealed a kind of patina built up on the straps, which appeared to increase resistance at the point of contact over time.

[Skywave-Rider]

You're right, but I do hate those darn plated bridging straps. I replace them all with short lengths of speaker wire for a surer and longer-lasting connection.



Ditto, here.

[jblsound]

When I called up and asked, about a month ago, the answer was they didn't know where they would be available.

[Jan Daugaard]

The JBL LS80 has won the EISA 2008 / 2009 award:
http://www.eisa.eu/eisa/awards/2008-2009
Type Page Down 15-20 times or use Ctrl-F to find the citation.

[Ian Mackenzie]

I saw the LS and the TS series in numerous department stores and specialty audio stores in Tokyo recently.

Its really a trend that I think the JBL brand is following by going for a taller more slender enclosure. According to a Japanese rep in one of the stores the WAF is becoming or is a major factor in the purchase decision and due to competitive forces JBL had to come up with something. JBL has a strong precence in the upper, middle and lower end ranges and needed something to compete with the likes in Sonus Faber, B & W, KEF, Mission and Tannoy to name a few that are also stocked by these dealers.

I think there is also a growing trend or a change in listening tastes that is reflected in the way these systems perform.

Aside from that the more traditional larger 43XX will just not fit in a typical Japanese living room.

The relevance is that this where the market and the sales are. (Tokyo population 12 million)

[hjames]

The JBL LS80 has won the EISA 2008 / 2009 award:
http://www.eisa.eu/eisa/awards/2008-2009
Type Page Down 15-20 times or use Ctrl-F to find the citation.

Thanks for the info, Jan!
I did a screen cap to grab the Award section on the LS80 and post it here permanently

[BMWCCA]

JBL also highlights this award on their product information page for the LS80. The same page that gives links to the product owners manual in several European languages including Russian. http://www.jbl.com/home/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=LS80&CheckProduct=Y

The more I look at these awards and the FAQ, the more I'm thinking "Motor Trend Car of the Year". These Euro products are nominated by magazine editors within their community and voted on by the same editors. I wouldn't put much significance in the awards until someone shows me the advertising budget spent in these magazines by these nominated manufacturers. And I'd be more impressed if Harman had the balls to market these in their home country. But we've been there before.

[4313B]

And I'd be more impressed if Harman had the balls to market these in their home country. But we've been there before.Who here would have the money to buy them? (That guestion is from JBL)

Even though we are striving with all our might to become the richest third-world country in the known universe Harman may start marketing more here anyway. I guess we'll soon see.

I just can't leave this alone -

Americans’ jobs are vanishing at the fastest rate in more than five years and the pace is expected to increase in the coming months. The nation's unemployment rate now stands at 6.1 percent, up sharply from 4.7 percent a year ago, meaning the number of unemployed people has risen by 2.2 million to 9.5 million.

That's more than the entire population of New York City. In this country that is patently rediculous. You get caught exporting an American job you get exported right along with it. We just don't need you living here in our society. Export our jobs and we export you. And don't forget to leave your U.S. citizenship at the door. You won't be needing it where you're headed.

I fully support International Labor Unions. It's about time they go global too. :yes:

[4313B]

I saw the LS and the TS series in numerous department stores and specialty audio stores in Tokyo recently.
Hopefully you will start a thread with highlights of your trip. :yes:

[hjames]

You get caught exporting an American job you get exported right along with it. We just don't need you living here in our society. Export our jobs and we export you. And don't forget to leave your U.S. citizenship at the door. You won't be needing it where you're headed.


I LOVE that idea - how do we get it implemented - we don't have the clout of an Abramoff or those other guys on K street ...

[BMWCCA]

Who here would have the money to buy them? (That guestion is from JBL)If they were so marketing-savvy they'd already know that answer. And not be in dire financial straits. And how much worse off is the financial market or economic prospect here in the USA versus the other markets where JBL does sell the LS80, like Slovenia? Of course, as has often been repeated here, they'll never know until they try. Or at least announce a price. And what would it really cost them to market some of the stuff here in the U.S. that they make here? If their best marketing is exemplified in their on-line tent sales or wholesalers on Ebay dumping product, then they have no marketing plan.

Aspirational marketing is the key. Harman has squandered the JBL name. Apple, for example, has marketed their brand on MP3 players and parlayed that into a huge jump in market share of their laptop products. But I'm simply beating that dead horse again.

[4313B]

I LOVE that idea - how do we get it implemented - we don't have the clout of an Abramoff or those other guys on K street ...Write your congress person. The same way we stymied the bailout of Wall Street for a week. Ultimately they failed, and the greedy bastards will find the loopholes to exploit, but they did make a decent effort.

Letting your representatives know how you feel has never been easier and it doesn't even cost a stamp anymore.

[hjames]

Write your congress person. The same way we stymied the bailout of Wall Street for a week. Ultimately they failed, and the greedy bastards will find the loopholes to exploit, but they did make a decent effort.

Letting your representatives know how you feel has never been easier and it doesn't even cost a stamp anymore.

No, I know how to write them and do -
I mean, how do we make it HAPPEN!

[4313B]

But I'm simply beating that dead horse again.My feeling is that they should, at the very least, offer everything on their website, even if it's at MSRP.

[4313B]

No, I know how to write them and do -
I mean, how do we make it HAPPEN!Good question. Unfortunately it's a long process that doesn't jive well with an addiction to instant gratification. I mean Jimmy Carter was talking about every single problem we face right now some 25 years ago! We've done nothing! :rotfl: :applaud:It's pretty hilarious actually. :p A whole bunch of people have to be on the same page to get anything done.

[BMWCCA]

My feeling is that they should, at the very least, offer everything on their website, even if it's at MSRP.Well, since their "dealer network" (such that it is) seemingly sells next-to-negligible volume, why not make "list price" actually reflect "street price" and sell it at that price. I hate to always use Apple as an example (wanted to buy their stock at under $90 the other day and may yet get another chance) but their retailers offer limited discounts off "list" price and yet everyone wants their products on their shelves. And Apple still manages to sell on-online and operate their own stores, too. I don't know how much profit there can be in a $45 MP3 player but I think I save at least $1.50 if I buy it at Sam's Club. ;)

Or does quoting prices 50% above street prices somehow make this stuff look more appealing in magazine reviews? I'd love to buy a new pair of JBLs someday. They'd have to provide the sound I expect of JBL from my experience with the older stuff, and they'd have to reflect a reasonable value in the marketplace. Heck, I should be able to pay for them in two months of premiums I won't have to pay once I get my National health insurance! Or, on the off chance thay McPop pulls this one off, maybe Harman could sign-on as a provider and the IRS would send my $5,000 health-insurance rebate directly to Harman. Hearing aids? :thmbsup:

[BMWCCA]

So I used the links on the JBL site to ask about the LS80. I got a reply back within hours. Here it is:


I'm sorry but the LS Series of speakers is not yet available
here in the USA. It is expected to become available, possibly in
January. Once available, these models can be obtained through our
Synthesis dealers.

[4313B]

Interesting...

[Titanium Dome]

Without knowing what the production run volumes are for the LS Series, if they're making them in any volume whatsoever, apparently other markets are able to absorb the entire run without needing to sell them here yet. Generally a company will ship products to markets where they sell well first, then seed them into other markets as time and opportunity allow.

If you could produce 1000 units of a product that has a 30% margin on it and sell all 1000 in Japan in one quarter or sell them in the US and hope to move 500 in a year, where would you put them?

[Ian Mackenzie]

They may no be able to met demand :)!

[4313B]

And remember that most of this stuff isn't made in the United States anymore anyway so it isn't like they were ever physically here in the first place.

[hjames]

And remember that most of this stuff isn't made in the United States anymore anyway so it isn't like they were ever physically here in the first place.
If its not US made, not US sold and never enters the US,
does that mean they don't pay US taxes on those resources?

:blink:

[Hoerninger]

If its not US made, not US sold and never enters the US, ...

... the profit goes to US.
[Do less and accomplish more. ;) ]
___________
Peter

[Mr. Widget]

... the profit goes to US.
I hope so... somebody over here needs to be making a profit. :(


Widget

[330indy]

Well, since their "dealer network" (such that it is) seemingly sells next-to-negligible volume, why not make "list price" actually reflect "street price" and sell it at that price. I hate to always use Apple as an example (wanted to buy their stock at under $90 the other day and may yet get another chance) but their retailers offer limited discounts off "list" price and yet everyone wants their products on their shelves. And Apple still manages to sell on-online and operate their own stores, too. I don't know how much profit there can be in a $45 MP3 player but I think I save at least $1.50 if I buy it at Sam's Club. ;)

Or does quoting prices 50% above street prices somehow make this stuff look more appealing in magazine reviews? I'd love to buy a new pair of JBLs someday. They'd have to provide the sound I expect of JBL from my experience with the older stuff, and they'd have to reflect a reasonable value in the marketplace. Heck, I should be able to pay for them in two months of premiums I won't have to pay once I get my National health insurance! Or, on the off chance thay McPop pulls this one off, maybe Harman could sign-on as a provider and the IRS would send my $5,000 health-insurance rebate directly to Harman. Hearing aids? :thmbsup:

that's some funny stuff right there....

but.... Obama scares me.

[330indy]

looks like a Linea veneer similar to some of ours

[BMWCCA]

but.... Obama scares me.
Why? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk5YJkhizRs

[4313B]

Obama scares me.:rotfl: Obama is harmless. :p

Cheney and Bush are the truly terrifying couple...

McCain is a maverick and needs his own reality TV show. He and Palin can be mavericks together, drilling oil in far out places and playing "whack a lobbyist" with spent nuclear fuel rods.

[Titanium Dome]

Since everyone is being so bad, I'll add that I'm looking forward to W. We need to be able to laugh about it.

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081015/REVIEWS/810150285/1023

http://www.apple.com/trailers/lions_gate/w/

And now, will a moderator order us to get back on topic?

Oh wait, did I see some LS Series in the White House footage?


:no:

[oznob]

Well, it's Fall 2008!:dont-know

[jblsound]

Well, it's Fall 2008!:dont-know
Guess you didn't see my posts about the LS series. According to JBL the LS isn't coming to America until sometime in '09.

[timc]

McCain is a maverick and needs his own reality TV show. He and Palin can be mavericks together, drilling oil in far out places and playing "whack a lobbyist" with spent nuclear fuel rods.


:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

[jblsound]

Voting with Bush 90% of the time, I don't call that being a Maverick. Voting for McCain would have been like voting for Bush for 4 more years.:eek:

But back to the LS, I would like to hear them, if for no other reason, to compare them to the PS.

[Titanium Dome]

Now that the political season is over for a while, how about some LS posts again?

Here's Britain-based Home Cinema Choice's take on the LS Series in 5.1 configuration.

http://www.techradar.com/reviews/audio-visual/hi-fi-and-audio/hi-fi-av-speakers/jbl-ls-series-5-1-speakers-467107/review

[Titanium Dome]

Who doesn't like to hear what the GadgetGuy from Australia has to say? His thoughts on JBL's LS line are here:

http://www.gadgetguy.com.au/jbl-ls-series-loudspeakers-towers-of-power-article-4085-113.html

Ian, do yo know him?

[jblsound]

Those reviews automatically want me to do a 2 hour audition, maybe sometime next year?

[4313B]

Very exciting! :applaud:

[rdgrimes]

I'm a little surprised at the seemingly underwhelming sub. There must be a port lurking behind it, which makes it sort of a clone of the S120PII. Although the cab design is new, so it might be better tuned. I sure don't see anything on the surface to justify the MSRP of $2k.

The center speaker looks nice, but I think I'll stick with my PS setup. ;)

[Titanium Dome]

No ports on the sub. It's a sealed enclosure, which IMO is better for a 12" sub.

The L8400P is a sealed unit with a 12" Polyplas® driver, MSRP $1099, street price $500 or so. The HTPS400 is a sealed unit with a 12" Aluminum driver, MSRP $2000, street price around $1300 if you can find one.

I can't determine the composition of the 12" in the LS120P, but it doesn't look like either of the above.

[jblsound]

No ports on the sub. It's a sealed enclosure, which IMO is better for a 12" sub.

The L8400P is a sealed unit with a 12" Polyplas® driver, MSRP $1099, street price $500 or so. The HTPS400 is a sealed unit with a 12" Aluminum driver, MSRP $2000, street price around $1300 if you can find one.

I can't determine the composition of the 12" in the LS120P, but it doesn't look like either of the above.




The center speaker looks nice, but I think I'll stick with my PS setup.


Well, I'd like to have the LS in the same room as my PS and do a face off and keep the winner.


Just looked on the JBL Europe site and found this:

Tuned-port bass enclosure extends low-frequency response and increases overall efficiency of the bass driver, reducing distortion and improving its power-handling capacity


SPECIFICATIONS
LS 120P

Frequency Response

25Hz – 150Hz


Amplifier RMS Power

400 Watts


Amplifier Peak Dynamic Power
†
700Watts


Crossover Frequency

50Hz – 150Hz;


24dB/octave, continuously adjustable



Driver
300mm (12") PolyPlas™

Dimensions (H x W x D)

487mm x 375mm x 425mm


(enclosed only)



(19-3/16" x 14-3/4" x 16-3/4")


Dimensions (H x W x D)



500mm x 375mm x 438mm


(with feet, controls, grille, etc.)



(19-11/16" x 14-3/4" x 17-1/4")
Weight 25.8kg (57 lb)

[rdgrimes]

No ports on the sub. It's a sealed enclosure, which IMO is better for a 12" sub.

The L8400P is a sealed unit with a 12" Polyplas® driver, MSRP $1099, street price $500 or so. The HTPS400 is a sealed unit with a 12" Aluminum driver, MSRP $2000, street price around $1300 if you can find one.

I can't determine the composition of the 12" in the LS120P, but it doesn't look like either of the above.
Yes, but!

The L8400 has a 600W/1200W amp and this has 400W/700W. Underpowered for a sealed sub IMHO, unless there's some very serious cabinet magic going on. Oh, just saw that it's ported. Still not impressive on paper. Apart from the different cab, it's just a S120PII. I have one of those, and it's nothing compared to the L8400P.

[Titanium Dome]

You're right. There's even a picture if you look close enough.

[Titanium Dome]

You can see the port at the top, which of course is the bottom of the back as the picture is from the top looking past the controls toward the bottom.

Well, I take back some of my enthusiasm, though I'm sure it's still a fine subwoofer. :biting:

[jblsound]

Yes, but!

The L8400 has a 600W/1200W amp and this has 400W/700W. Underpowered for a sealed sub IMHO, unless there's some very serious cabinet magic going on. Oh, just saw that it's ported. Still not impressive on paper. Apart from the different cab, it's just a S120PIII. I have one of those, and it's nothing compared to the L8400P.

You missed this:
Tuned-port bass enclosure extends low-frequency response and increases overall efficiency of the bass driver, reducing distortion and improving its power-handling capacity

[jblsound]

You can see the port at the top, which of course is the bottom of the back as the picture is from the top looking past the controls toward the bottom.

Well, I take back some of my enthusiasm, though I'm sure it's still a fine subwoofer. :biting:
Maybe the sub is the weak link in the LS system, instead of the center. But as we haven't experienced the LS, anyone's guess.

[4313B]

No tech sheets yet.

[Titanium Dome]

So it is a Polyplas™ driver after all. I guess JBL forgot the gold or silver paint.

[jblsound]

So it is a Polyplas™ driver after all. I guess JBL forgot the gold or silver paint.
Yes, I was surprised when I pulled up the manual a couple of days ago and posted the specs. The driver looked more like it might have been kevlar, like the SUB1500.

[jblsound]

3-Way, Dual 165mm Centre Loudspeaker

Frequency Response (-10dB): 50Hz – 40kHz
Frequency Response (-3dB): 85Hz – 38kHz
Power Handling: 75W (continuous) / 150W (music) / 300W (peak)
Maximum Recommended Amplifier Power: 150W
Sensitivity (2.83V, 1m): 88dB
Crossover Frequencies: 2.5kHz; 9kHz; 24dB/octave
Nominal Impedance: 6 ohms
Low-Frequency Transducer: Dual 165mm with cast-aluminium frames
High-Frequency Transducer: 50mm pure-titanium compression driver; Bi-Radial® horn
Ultrahigh-Frequency Transducer: 19mm polyester-film ring-radiator; neodymium magnet; EOS waveguide
Dimensions (H x W x D): 217mm x 672mm x 235mm
Weight: 14.4kg

Looking at the specs of the center, what I like best is the fact that there are no crossover points in the voice range (60~1500htz), besides the sub XO point. That translates to a really clean, clear, precise dialog, something that many centers lack.

The same would be true if one wanted to use the LS40 for LCRs, or even all channels.
The LS80, LS60 do have a XO point @ 400htz, which is quite a bit lower than the XO point of the PS.

I've read a few times, that some think its totally unexceptable to have any XO points in the voice range, as they muddle the dialog, but I think it totally depends on the speakers being used, as I find no problem with the PT800 XO point @ 650htz, which I use as a center.

Sure would be nice if we could audition this series next year

[Ian Mackenzie]

Thanks for the info, Jan!
I did a screen cap to grab the Award section on the LS80 and post it here permanently


There is a good review of the LS 80 in the current issue of Aust HIFI.

The RRP is around AUD$6000.00. If I find a retailer with a pair I will report on an audition.

[jswanson57]

Here's a link to the article in Australian Hi-Fi Magazine:

http://www.avhub.com.au/ProductReview.aspx?MagazineID=5&ProductReviewID=331

[4313B]

Thanks for the link!

[gerchy]

Any news on the LS120? :)

I haven't been able to find any test results/reviews (for the subwoofer only) yet and I'm very eager to buy one. The official price is approximately $845, with a special "employee discount" I could get it for $735. Sounds like a reasonable price.

Funny thing, I've seen a LS40 review and kind of thought they are ment for rear speakers only. I thought they could be a good choice but viewing the price I shall stay with the Ti 1000. :yes:

[rdgrimes]

Any news on the LS120? :)

I haven't been able to find any test results/reviews (for the subwoofer only) yet and I'm very eager to buy one. The official price is approximately $845, with a special "employee discount" I could get it for $735. Sounds like a reasonable price.

Funny thing, I've seen a LS40 review and kind of thought they are ment for rear speakers only. I thought they could be a good choice but viewing the price I shall stay with the Ti 1000. :yes:
I think I already expressed my doubts about this sub. Based on specs only, I'd have to say that you could get a lot more for the money.

[gerchy]

I think I already expressed my doubts about this sub. Based on specs only, I'd have to say that you could get a lot more for the money.
Yes, I read your posts.
There is, however, not many options at JBL`s product list.
There are not many alternatives - the L series comes first to my mind.
(Mind that I come from Europe) :)

[rdgrimes]

Yes, I read your posts.
There is, however, not many options at JBL`s product list.
There are not many alternatives - the L series comes first to my mind.
(Mind that I come from Europe) :)
The L8400P is your best choice of the existing mid-line subs. The LS120 has identical specs as the older S120PII. I own both of those and the L8400P is vastly better. That's not to say that the LS120 isn't better though.

The 1500 Array is pretty widely regarded as very good, but alas not cheap. My point was just that for $800 there is a vast range of very fine subs, non-JBL. On paper, the LS120 is really only offering the fancy box.

[Titanium Dome]

Here's a US company that has LS Series product listed for sale, but the fine print is not encouraging.

Availability: Normally less than 5 days
We have no confirmed lead time for this item - call for more details.


http://www.expansys-usa.com/p.aspx?i=176106

[rdgrimes]

Here's a US company that has LS Series product listed for sale, but the fine print is not encouraging.

Availability: Normally less than 5 days
We have no confirmed lead time for this item - call for more details.


http://www.expansys-usa.com/p.aspx?i=176106

As I posted at AVS, I suspect this will be the 220v version of the sub, and JBL does not yet list a 110v version. Hard to say if the sub has a dual-voltage PS.

[oznob]

:dont-know

[Rusnzha]

I have an LS Center on its way from France. This will be the third center in my Studio series 7.1. The first was the S-Center, which sounded best when it was turned down or off. Next was the Infinity Beta C-360, which was much nicer. I set the volume at the same level as the rest of the speakers and it was a nice match with the Studio series. I use this set up for movies now and then, but it's tuned for music.

It’s been said here and there that the center speaker should be the most capable of speakers in a
5/7.1. I was looking at the Project Array center, but there’s just no way. I don’t know how the LC-2 compares with the Infinity, but I want to try a better center and see what happens. I don’t think there’s one of these to be found in the USA. It should be here in 10 or 12 days and I'll be back some time after that.

[jblsound]

How much is the shipping from France? And what was the price of the center?

[Rusnzha]

http://www.expansys-usa.com/p.aspx?i=176105&partner=froogle

The shipping from France is included in the price. I'm only paying for them to ship it from Illinois to Kansas. About $58.00 for shipping.

Originally posted by jbl sound

Make good speakers better, Charge-Couple 'em

Love my charge coupled 100s.

[Rusnzha]

Been hanging out with the LS Center for 2 days now. It is starting to break in and sounds a lot better than it did last night. It made more of a difference than I expected. When I had the S-Center, it made me think about a nice vintage Marshall or Fender tube amp. This was great when listening to guitars and a lot of instrumental stuff. Not so hot when listening to female vocals. The Infinity fixed the problem with the vocals and everything sounded better. It sounded good 98% of the time, but sometimes, it was a little too fat and had some other quirks. Some of the oddities were kind of cool and I was afraid I would miss them (this only happened with Logic 7, no such problems with PL2X). As it continues to break in, the LS center is working so good with the Studio stuff and Logic 7 that I will probably sell the Infinity. IMHO the LS Center would be great in many different JBL configurations

I listened to it by itself first. By itself, the Infinity sounded a lot better. This may be a dubious comparison since I was playing the Infinity for a few months when I played it by itself. Also, the Infinity has much more bass extension. In the surround system, none of this seems to matter. The LS Center with its –3 DB point @ 85hz makes it similar to the Performance Series in some ways. Since it is rated down to 50hz, unlike the Performance Series, I’m running it without any kind of high pass. Looking at it, there is a distinct Everest vibe. I think some of that technology made it into this box. The tones that I heard tonight also makes this believable. The woofers cover from mid-bass to the upper end of female vocals. Even with less bass content, the quality of the mid-bass had a huge impact on the character of the low end. The 2241H sounds seriously better. I couldn’t get enough of Stanley Clarke tonight. :banana::banana::band:

[jblsound]

Been hanging out with the LS Center for 2 days now. It is starting to break in and sounds a lot better than it did last night. It made more of a difference than I expected.

The LS Center with its –3 DB point @ 85hz makes it similar to the Performance Series in some ways. Since it is rated down to 50hz, unlike the Performance Series, I’m running it without any kind of high pass. Looking at it, there is a distinct Everest vibe. I think some of that technology made it into this box. The tones that I heard tonight also makes this believable. The woofers cover from mid-bass to the upper end of female vocals. Even with less bass content, the quality of the mid-bass had a huge impact on the character of the low end. The 2241H sounds seriously better. I couldn’t get enough of Stanley Clarke tonight. :banana::banana::band:

Glad you like the LS, it should be better being a higher end unit.

The difference between the LS and PS is the PS is designed for wall mounting, as well as free standing. As such the PS is -6db @ 80htz, to compensate for boundry gain when wall mounted, thus bringing it back to -3db @ 80htz.

Of coarse the fact the LS is horn loaded would also make a difference in the sound compared to the S or Studio L, PS series.

[Rusnzha]

Continuing to break in nicely. Works great with Logic-7.
WAF = +, win-win:applaud::applaud::banana::banana:

[Rusnzha]

Becoming more consistent as break in continues. It should be well on its way by now. Checked out Sade Lovers Live DVD last night. She sounded good on the Infinity center, but brought out its problems more than just about anything else that I played. I would try PL2X in the rough spots, but I always had to go back to Logic 7 in spite of the intermittent problems that came with it. PL2X sounds great until you switch to Logic 7 even if it is only working at 80%. Sade sounded better than ever with the LS center and Logic 7 is something to hear when it works this well. There was a warmth and clarity in her voice that was mind blowing. It was so easy to turn off the crap in my mind and just sit back and dig it. :jawdrop: It shows the capabilities HK 7300 receiver and complements the studio stuff and the 2241h better than I could have imagined – highly recommended!

I did some searches and saw it selling in Japan for about $1500 USD. This makes what I paid for it look real good.

[hjames]

Looks really cool & sounds like you are really enjoying it!

The thread's gotten long and you didn't post a picture of it in your home,
so I thought it at least worth reposting the picture and link to the specs,
just to put the discussion in perspective.

http://www.jbl.com/home/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=LS%20CENTER/230&Language=ENG&Country=DK&Region=EUROPE&cat=CLA&ser=LS

[Rusnzha]

Here's some pics

[tarior]

Where does a guy find these? I can't seem to find them on the pro or consumer website. What is their nomenclature?
BTW, congrats on the killer new system.

I found there ugly mug shot it isn’t pretty. :D

No that’s not LARGE enough. :D My money is on and even thou I’m strapped for cash its on the JBL cinema professional range.
http://www.lemondenumerique.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/jbl-ls-series.jpg

Thing is I don’t like mismatched speakers no matter what the manufacture says. To me matching is religious thing for LCR no matter how small or large matching LCR. ;)

[Mike Ronesia]

I think someone did a google search and found a store that would import them. I do not believe they were launched here in the US.

[Mike Ronesia]

here is a link (http://jbl.com/home/products/series.aspx?SerId=LS&Language=ENG&Country=GB&Region=EUROPE) to there specs on the JBL Europe site.

[tarior]

here is a link (http://jbl.com/home/products/series.aspx?SerId=LS&Language=ENG&Country=GB&Region=EUROPE) to there specs on the JBL Europe site.
Thanks!

[Rusnzha]

http://www.expansys-usa.com/p.aspx?i=176105&partner=froogle




I bought mine through this link, but now it goes to a list of European Expansys branches. The ones I looked at weren't in English :barf:. Good luck!

[Rusnzha]

I found this on the bottom of the page with the European links.

If you would like assistance please contact [email protected] ([email protected]) or call 1.800.675.2638.

This will take you to the USA site. There's nothing there about LS stuff, but it can't hurt to try the 800 number.

http://www.expansys-usa.com/

[4313B]

Someone mentioned yesterday that Synthesis Dealers are going to carry this Series.

[jblsound]

Someone mentioned yesterday that Synthesis Dealers are going to carry this Series.

Well if that's the case, and I don't see many other options, they'll get about as much exposure as the Performance Series did. Which will be unfortunate.

It might be that NFM might carry them, as they did have the PS a few years ago, But that's only 2 or 3 outlets, right in the middle of the country. And Tweeters is gone, they had the PS.

We already know BB/Magnolia will never carry JBL, CC gone, Frys only sells the lower ES series, most small dealers gone, except for the large cities.

[tarior]

Any idea where the LS series is manufactured?
When I was checking out TiDomes Synthesis thread, I was happy to see "Made in USA" on some of the boxes and components. It matters to me.

[4313B]

Well if that's the case, and I don't see many other options, they'll get about as much exposure as the Performance Series did. Which will be unfortunate.I honestly don't know how all that works. I have no idea if JBL is happy or not with the number of Performance Series units they sold. I do know that they are extremely pleased with the number of Everest II units sold.

Any idea where the LS series is manufactured?
When I was checking out TiDomes Synthesis thread, I was happy to see "Made in USA" on some of the boxes and components. It matters to me.I believe that anything sold by a Synthesis Dealer, including the LS Series, is still "Made in USA" for the most part. I suppose I could be wrong. I do know that the Array, K2 and Everest components are all made by JBL Professional Manufacturing (not to be confused with JBL Professional Marketing, Sales or Customer Service).

[jblsound]

I honestly don't know how all that works. I have no idea if JBL is happy or not with the number of Performance Series units they sold. I do know that they are extremely pleased with the number of Everest II units sold.

Yes it seems these days all the high end JBLs are doing very well in the sales numbers. They also get all the press. But for the average Joe, way out of range. If I could afford a pair of Everest II, my order would have been in two years ago.

I've often wondered how many PS units were sold, they were out about 4 years, I think it was, before they showed up on the Harman online store, as refurbs. Don't ever remember seeing much press on the PS. Most people I've conversed with, online, never heard of the PS. I had to buy them w/o an audition, but as I've had JBLs since '73, I figured I'd like them.
At this point in time, for anything JBL, above the ES series, I'd have to go down to SoCal for any kind of audition. No search ever comes up in NoCal, NV




I believe that anything sold by a Synthesis Dealer, including the LS Series, is still "Made in USA" for the most part. I suppose I could be wrong. I do know that the Array, K2 and Everest components are all made by JBL Professional Manufacturing (not to be confused with JBL Professional Marketing, Sales or Customer Service).


When I first read about the LS, I'm thinking I saw something about them being built in Europe. Seems reasonable as that's where they've been sold to date. But as the PS were built in Northridge, I would think that the US sold LS units would be also. But I'm guessing on that.

[BMWCCA]

Someone mentioned yesterday that Synthesis Dealers are going to carry this Series.No rush, apparently. They're currently listed on the JBL Consumer GB site under "Classic" home audio?! Isn't that one foot in the grave toward "discontinued"?

If you go to JBL.com (http://jbl.com) and select "United Kingdom" in the country drop-down menu at top-right, then select "products" under home audio that's how it comes up. So how long have they been available elsewhere? They'll probably show up in the H-K tent-sale clearance on ebay about the same time they hit the Synthesis dealers in the U.S. :screwy:

[jblsound]

No rush, apparently. They're currently listed on the JBL Consumer GB site under "Classic" home audio?! Isn't that one foot in the grave toward "discontinued"?

If you go to JBL.com (http://jbl.com) and select "United Kingdom" in the country drop-down menu at top-right, then select "products" under home audio that's how it comes up. So how long have they been available elsewhere? They'll probably show up in the H-K tent-sale clearance on ebay about the same time they hit the Synthesis dealers in the U.S. :screwy:

I seem to remember the LS first showing up in Europe press about a year ago. From what I saw online.
I doubt the LS will ever show up on Harman's ebay store, the PS never did. The PS was only on the Harman factory store, under "specials", as refurbs, about 4 years after their release date.

Under the "Classic" is also the Ti series, Studio L, ES, Northridge.
The ES has only been out about one year.

[4313B]

But as the PS were built in NorthridgeSome were from Mexico. Tweeter from Audax, midrange and woofers designed by a guest engineer from China. LE14H-3 was USA. In any case, that's just the way of the world these days.

[jblsound]

Some were from Mexico. Tweeter from Audax, midrange and woofers designed by a guest engineer from China. LE14H-3 was USA. In any case, that's just the way of the world these days.

I'm going by what my PT800s have on them. The box, midrange, mid-bass all say made in U.S.A. Don't remember what the markings on the crossover is.

I know the tweeter was French made. You say guest engineer from China, do I assume correctly, he worked at Northridge.

Now, the pair of Studio L890s I bought had "assembled, or made in Mexico" don't remember which.

[4313B]

I'm going by what my PT800s have on them. The box, midrange, mid-bass all say made in U.S.A. Don't remember what the markings on the crossover is.Yep, I just know they switched at some point as some of the furniture lines were moved out of Northridge to Mexico.

You say guest engineer from China, do I assume correctly, he worked at Northridge.Yep. At the time of development he did. Really nice drivers too! I've taken them apart to make sure. :rotfl:

Seriously, I really like them. I think the Performance Series is outstanding.

[jblsound]

Yep, I just know they switched at some point as some of the furniture lines were moved out of Northridge to Mexico.
Yep. At the time of development he did. Really nice drivers too! I've taken them apart to make sure. :rotfl:

Seriously, I really like them. I think the Performance Series is outstanding.

Did you ever see the Revel Gem2? Basicly an upgrade of the PT800, as good as the PS is I'd really like to hear the Gem2.

[Rusnzha]

Listened to Phil Collins Face Value, Return to Forever, Returns DVD and the Ultimate Mancini SACD last night.

I never heard Phil like that before, the vocals floated pleasantly around the room with very pleasing warmth and detail. The band sounds good, but the vocals are what really shows the difference.

RTF sounded outstanding. In addition to his Les Paul, Al Dimeola has a couple of cool looking Paul Reed Smith guitars now. Their tone was spectacular, as was the Paul’s, but all with their own sound. Stanley Clark never fails to amaze and sounded even better now that the LS is well broken in. Chick’s keyboards sounded rich and warm. Lenny White’s drumming kicked ass and showed off the improved high-end capabilities. The LS creates a sense of space from the center that was previously non-existant. Logic 7 loves it.

On Ultimate Mancini, did AB between 6 channel SACD mode and Logic 7 for a while. Once I figured out how to balance the volume, the AB testing had some surprising results. The SACD was very clear and distinct, but it was a lot easier to miss the warmth and the sense of space coming from Logic 7 off the stereo analog outputs. Monica Mancini made for a little bit of Heaven right here in Kansas. I am unable to describe how she sounded; you just got to hear it :spin:

WAF report
SACD multichannel -
Logic 7 +

It remains to be seen if this is true of other SACDs.

[Rusnzha]

When I first read about the LS, I'm thinking I saw something about them being built in Europe. Seems reasonable as that's where they've been sold to date. But as the PS were built in Northridge, I would think that the US sold LS units would be also. But I'm guessing on that.

Label on back says:

JBL Incorporated
Northridge, California, USA
Designed and Engineered by JBL
Assembled in China

[4313B]

Assembled in ChinaI've got a fundamental problem with multinationals on the constant hunt for sustenance level labor...

"the economic crisis will push more businesses underground to avoid taxes and unionized labor, which will increase the use of forced, cheap and child labor by cash-strapped multinational companies"

I think the time has come for a global labor union. :yes:

[jblsound]

I've got a fundamental problem with multinationals on the constant hunt for sustenance level labor...

"the economic crisis will push more businesses underground to avoid taxes and unionized labor, which will increase the use of forced, cheap and child labor by cash-strapped multinational companies"

I think the time has come for a global labor union. :yes:

I'll second that! imo, ever since the '80 election and the busting of the air traffic controlers strike, the average wage earner has seen his/her wages drop, factoring inflation.

During the last few years, you can buy coffee beans that say on the bag, fair trade, which means the farmers that produced that coffee gets a much better price for his efforts. Unfortunately, that type of thinking doesn't hold true in many industries.

[tarior]

Myself, I've been trying to avoid products made in third world countries whenever possible. It's not alway easy, but it can be done.

[Rusnzha]

I've got a fundamental problem with multinationals on the constant hunt for sustenance level labor...

"the economic crisis will push more businesses underground to avoid taxes and unionized labor, which will increase the use of forced, cheap and child labor by cash-strapped multinational companies"

I think the time has come for a global labor union. :yes:

Thanks to folks like Reagan, Bush and Cheney, working people have gone through a time warp back into the bad old days, lacking decent pay, decent medical care or most of the other perks the ruling class (government and corporate fat cats) take for granted. A good start would be to lean on the politicians to pass the Employee Free Choice Act. America just ain't what it used to be and Obama's trying to fix it. I wish him luck, it will be and uphill battle fighting the special interests and their millions being spent pushing lie campaigns on the public and congressional lobbying.

[Mr. Widget]

This thread has veered off course and deep into political territory. Since these discussions never end well we have made this area of discussion off limits.

I think it is safe to say that most people agree that the status quo isn't working, however since we have such divergent viewpoints on where we should go from here... shouting matches are inevitable.

Now closer to the original topic:


Well if that's the case, and I don't see many other options, they'll get about as much exposure as the Performance Series did. Which will be unfortunate.

It might be that NFM might carry them, as they did have the PS a few years ago, But that's only 2 or 3 outlets, right in the middle of the country. And Tweeters is gone, they had the PS.

We already know BB/Magnolia will never carry JBL, CC gone, Frys only sells the lower ES series, most small dealers gone, except for the large cities.Tweeters is gone, Circuit City is gone, a local chain called The Good Guys is gone, Magnolia is just about gone... it is no wonder no one stocks this stuff... if you sell mid grade audio gear you go out of business. There only seems room for the top end and the bottom of the market. :(

Sure this is partly due to the shrinking middle class, but I think it is more due to this being the end of an era. The Golden Age of High Fidelity is far behind us... we are the stragglers and the hanger-oners... very few stores can stay in business just to amuse the relatively few of us who remain.


Widget

[Rusnzha]

Originally posted by JBLAddict


LS80--disappointing sound, my L5 kills these, L7 absolutely crushes them in every way


Wish I could have heard some of this stuff. Would even like to hear L5s and L7s. Truth is when listening to the Infinity Beta C360 next to the LS Center by themselves, the Infinity smokes the LS Center. When inserted into my 7.1 surround, the LS Center is unquestionably the speaker of choice particularly when using Logic 7. I think it comes down to a point 4313B has often made made that different speakers serve different purposes. I suspect that the LS 80s are not made to be used as a stereo pair, but will sound best in a 5.1 or 7.1 setup.

I've spent a good deal of time listening to this setup and the LS Center has only sounded bad on one thing I've played. When listening to Ella Fitzgerald, it sounded too analytical, she smoothed out real nice on the Infinity.

[Rusnzha]

Originally posted by rusnzha


When listening to Ella Fitzgerald, it sounded too analytical, she smoothed out real nice on the Infinity.
I checked this out further. The problem was operator malfunction. I make my own versions on the computer and in the process, I introduced some kind of garbage that didn't show up on my Sony headphones. It was really interesting that it didn't show up on the Beta C-360 either, now everything sounds better on the LS Center.

[jblsound]

Originally posted by rusnzha


I checked this out further. The problem was neither operator malfunction. I make my own versions on the computer and in the process, I inrtroduced some kind of garbage that didn't show up on my Sony headphones. It was really interesting that it didn't show up on the Beta C-360 either, but everything sounds better on the LS Center.

The LS center is obviously then more detailed than the Infinity.
I had the same sort of experience when I first got into DVD-A/SACD. I had bought a cheap player from Costco and it was just alright playing through my old L212 system.
But when I bought a PS system (5 PT800) that cheap dvd-a player had to go. Picked up a Denon dvd-a/sacd player and the result was a huge improvement.

[Akira]

JBL needs to exploit what little consumer cachet they have left, while they have it. If they're not going have dealers, they may as well have JBL stores like Apple
A JBL only store would never fly, BUT certainly Harmon International has an elite list of products that could generate enough interest to carry a store.:) That would be too cool! :p

[Rusnzha]

I went with Studio Series stuff for fronts, sides and rears in a 7.1 setup, but the S-center was a problem. The lower I made it, the better I heard the rest of the system. Finding a center speaker that worked better in this setup proved to be a challenge. I wanted the Array Center, but that just wasn't gonna happen. When the LS Center came out, it seemed like a good alternative. I've had it for a long time now and it works so well in my setup that I'm done spending money on this stuff, but it would be interesting to compare it with the PC600. Some time ago, I visited a forum member with a PS stereo setup. They sounded very nice.

[jblsound]

I went with Studio Series stuff for fronts, sides and rears in a 7.1 setup, but the S-center was a problem. The lower I made it, the better I heard the rest of the system. Finding a center speaker that worked better in this setup proved to be a challenge. I wanted the Array Center, but that just wasn't gonna happen. When the LS Center came out, it seemed like a good alternative. I've had it for a long time now and it works so well in my setup that I'm done spending money on this stuff, but it would be interesting to compare it with the PC600. Some time ago, I visited a forum member with a PS stereo setup. They sounded very nice.

I've read both good/bad a/b the LS system. When it comes to current JBL systems, the PS is at the top of the list, for the average joe. As not very many can afford the K2s, Everest II. The next step up from a PS system would be a Revel system, imho, that's how good the PS is.

[JBLAddict]

I've read both good/bad a/b the LS system. When it comes to current JBL systems, the PS is at the top of the list, for the average joe. As not very many can afford the K2s, Everest II. The next step up from a PS system would be a Revel system, imho, that's how good the PS is.


I'm trying really hard to be content with my current setup, but you guys keep insisting on making these posts, dontcha? :D

oh, back on topic, LS series blah blah blah