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jkc
04-07-2004, 05:12 AM
The motivation for building this stereo is a story in its own right and I will relate it briefly here.
Directly across the road a100 meters away and 25 meters bellow my house is a Bar.
On Fridays they have rock and roll bands and they would play into the small hours with the doors and windows open.
The highest level I recorded at my front door was between 85 and 90 dBA.
Between 70 and 80dBA would not be uncommon.
Complaining to local council who are responsible noise control meet with no action and when they gave the second pub a license I took it as an insult.
Now you need to know that I am the only house affected by this and when I approached the company that run the bar I was told that if I new anything about local politics I wouldnít bother complaining.
Indeed the company is run by a trust which is comprised of councilors and an ex mayor is the company director and trust chairman.
Well I decided if it is good enough for them to have bands it is good enough for me so the original design criteria was for 130dB @ 1 meter.
This was later discarded as being impractical as it became too big to fit in the house especially as it had to sound good and be used every day and be Hi Fi.
1 year later after much scrounging around I was finally on air.

As this project went along I decided that if the room was bigger I could have better base response so I looked at the wall between the dinning room and the lounge and decided that could go as well and why not the kitchen wall as well.
After 2 layers of noise line, (Drywall with fibers and its heavy to stop noise) 2000 screws and countless tubes of glue there are no more rattles in the house.
This also allowed me to run all the speaker cables in the walls and build the amp racks under the house.

This project is almost finished just need the curtains and carpet as can be seen from the photo.
So its time for some wood grain cabinets.

Attached is a picture of the 3rd prototype speaker I built. The 1st one was all in 1 box but I realized that I couldnít carry it up the steps from my garage to the house.
The 2nd version had an E120 as the mid base driver and the latest version has a 2225 as a mid base driver
I am about to build a 4th version and would appreciate any suggestions for improvement may main concern being the mid base driver

From the top down
JBL Slots X-Over 6 KHz passive
Altec Lansing 822k compression drivers on DDS wave guides X-Over 1 KHz
JBL 2225 X-Over 120 Hz
Radian 2218
All vented cabinets 3rd order Butterworth alignment with 18dB Linkwitz-Riley aligned Active X-Overs
The wheels are so I can wheel the speakers up to the French doors and have the stereo outside.
The center speaker is a 2225 with a K110 and a bullet tweeter currently under construction.
The rears are Altec Lansing 9846ís
I got to like the sound of this thing so thought it worth carrying on.

But where to from here.

I was wondering what suggestions you folks had for a mid base diver may main concern now being better quality sound.
Perhaps I should splash out on a pair of 2020ís for 100Hz to 1 KHz
Or perhaps double 2225ís (I have some) with a 10Ē
Any ideas from you folks who have been down this road before would be appreciated.

What suggestions do you folks have for sound damping I would like to dampen the room more as this stereo sounds much better outside. I was thinking of some wall panels immediately in front of the speakers to start with but what to make them from.
Unfortunately the other side is glass doors but was thinking of heavy Velvet drapes.

TimG
04-07-2004, 09:19 AM
It looks like an 18Sound horn.

johnhb
04-07-2004, 09:35 AM
I was excited at first. I thought it was going to be the battle of the bands! My neighbor is a performer( famous local one ). I can barely hear him practicing in the garage and he is the best neighbor one could have. Since I am sitting on enough JBLs of mass ear destruction to take on anyone I have thought how much fun it would be if a neighbor decided to take me on. Oh well. If it is a battle don't forget horns!

boputnam
04-07-2004, 09:53 AM
Yea, I'm confused too, johnhb. All this rattling-on about crony politics and such :thnkfast: , and then ending at questions of sound damping... :spin:

I was looking forward to a good :montyp:

:(

mikebake
04-07-2004, 02:57 PM
First of all, forget trying to get any bass to the bar. It ain't gonna happen and is a waste of time.
You're really trying to get from about 350hz+ to 4500hz there. Go easy on youself and just use a midbass and midrange horn. You've got a midrange horn already; you just need to get the midbass/low mid into a horn.
Find one or two old beat up pairs of JBL 4560 cabs. These are long throw boxes. Plop some 2225's in there, and on top just place your current horns.
Close-couple/stack the cabs for an extra 3db. Roll off the lower bass to save amp power. Consider running in mono. At dusk, aim at bar, and crank it up. You'll be amazed how well you can hear these boxes 300 feet away. They will too. When their band is playing, of course, they won't hear it.
I placed a pair of these inside a tent at a festival, walked up the sloping alley road about 300 feet away during a go cart race; the volume was set at about 35%. Pretty close to what you describe. Nothing can be heard like a horn!

What to play?? Loud drums work well on these boxes. Tympani. Air raid sirens! Vocals. Guitar. All the upper bass and midrangey stuff. What kind of rig do they have in the bar??

Scroll down the link below to see my goofy arsenal. I'd like to have a neighborhood bar to aim it at, but my neighbors are all pretty nice! The 4560's are the single front loaded horn cabs next to the quad cabs.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=906

(By the way, the goal of just having it sound good in the house is a good one, and your rig looks like it ought to be fun for that!)

jkc
04-07-2004, 03:29 PM
Ok The battle of the band has been resoplved so U just thought you folks might have some advise on the sweetest sounding mid base driver for every day use.

mikebake
04-07-2004, 03:56 PM
How as the battle resolved? Actually, in re-reading your post I guess you just meant that you wanted to have it loud within your house. Watch your hearing, especially in enclosed spaces.

Tinnitusly yours,
MBB

jkc
04-07-2004, 04:10 PM
First of all, forget trying to get any bass to the bar. It ain't gonna happen and is a waste of time.

A pair of these was fairly effective
2 x dual 2242,s 4Kw a side
The bar is in the backgrond

jkc
04-07-2004, 04:21 PM
How as the battle resolved? Actually, in re-reading your post I guess you just meant that you wanted to have it loud within your house. Watch your hearing, especially in enclosed spaces.


The council gave me a abatment notice.(NO Noise for 72 hours)
I had all the documentation to prove the noise wasnt excesssive
A court appearance and meetings later it was decided that rock and roll bands in residential areas wasnt such as goog idea.

But please guys whats the sweetest sounding mid base driver going to be

Robh3606
04-07-2004, 04:24 PM
Hello JKC

That looks like a nice set-up. I am using an E145 from 50hz to 300hz and a 2123 10" from 300 up to about 1.2k. It floats my boat. Nice and clean with fast transients and bass with no bloat, for lack of a better word. I have subs under the E145's, which they really do need for home. In the range they cover they really kick. Drums are just great and Slam like WOW with no hangover! Its there and then just gone like flicking a switch. Hard to describe how they sound. If you like fast and clean that combo may be what you are looking for. Will be running 2235's soon can't wait to have a "bass off" over that 50hz to 300 hz range to see how the 2 compare. I second Mike watch your ears!


Rob:)

jkc
04-07-2004, 06:03 PM
I have been told that the E series is the fastest driver around.
I have some E 120's, E140's and some 2225s.
I was considering the 2225's with the E 120'
X Over at 85 Hz, 300, and 1.2 k but I donít really need that much noise so I was hoping to cover 100Hz to 1Khz with a single driver. This should also be a smaller Cabinet.
I am not so familiar with the mid bass drivers and will most likely have to buy new ones. So was looking at a pair of 2206ís prehaps

Alex Lancaster
04-07-2004, 06:35 PM
I have a restaurant-bar right next to my office and I had a problem, but not with their music; Their air conditioning handler on their roof made a horrible racket that they would not fix; during the hot months this was all day and until 3:00 AM; I had about 12 PA horns, rigged them with a 600W JBL amp, hooked the signal generator and swept them with about 1,5-5 KHz for maybe 10 minutes; When they complained, I reminded them about THEIR noise; got fixed the next day.

Robh3606
04-07-2004, 07:59 PM
'I was considering the 2225's with the E 120'
X Over at 85 Hz, 300, and 1.2 k but I donít really need that much noise so I was hoping to cover 100Hz to 1Khz with a single driver. This should also be a smaller Cabinet.'

It's not the just about max spl. A 10"or 12" can do a better job in the 300 and Up range. I can go crazy loud but I don't need to.The resolutuion is plain as day at any reasonable playback level. Look at the clasic 4 way's including the 4348 and 4344 M2. A 2206 might work just fine. Only one way to find out:D Some guys on the forum use them so they will probabaly chime in.

Rob:)

jkc
04-07-2004, 10:43 PM
Hi Rob

I agree with what you are saying

When I had the E130 in this set up it sounded OK but lacked, I guess you would say mid base slam.
The 2225 seems lacking at the top but sounds good down the bottom.
I figured this is a well worn path and I was keen to finish off the project as something livable.
Dual 2225"s in 1.5 cubic foot boxes with a 10 on top has receved consideration but would it sound better than a 2206

leif
04-07-2004, 10:57 PM
Battles is fun!
I had a problem with for former neighbour. He took my private parking spot all the time. And one day he came over to me to complain about loud music. I turned it down as he wanted. But the next day, when he took my parking spot again, I got the idea:idea:
Let me pay back with music!
Well, we only lived side by side in a wood house, so I did not really have to build a large pa system. My good old pair of Ti240 with the B460 did the job along with some Yello music.
He complained, and I answered that I would have it on day and night untill he stop taking my parking spot. And I put the music even higher.
It ended with me having to call the police, when he threatened me with murder :D