JBL Factory Center Speakers

[hjames]

I've got my home system working fairly well, but - sometimes we have trouble making out dialog in films ... so I figure that means we need to upgrade the center channel speaker.

Our current speaker is from the Northridge E Series - the EC25 (a 2 way - top image below)

I'm debating over the idea of going with either an EC35 (a 3 way - the middle image below)
http://www.jbl.com/home/product_support/default.aspx?ProdId=EC35BE&Buy=N

or tracking down an LC2 (Part of the Studio L Series - looks like a 4way)
http://www.jbl.com/home/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=LC2&CheckProduct=Y
(although it looks better to me, I gather the LC1 3way is not quite as nice)

I gather they are somewhat comparable speaker?
Does anyone have any firsthand info about these speakers they can share?

Or - am I barking up the wrong tree and ought to look at some completely different center?
Ideas? Tips?

(The Images below are, in order top to bottom, EC25, LC1, EC35, LC2)

[SEAWOLF97]

I've got my home system working fairly well, but - sometimes we have trouble making out dialog in films ... so I figure that means we need to upgrade the center channel speaker.

I wud not assume it to be the speaker (unless you really just want to buy another speaker :D) look at wiring, at the receiver, connections......only certain film ? only certain passages ? all the time/every film ?

Had a similar prob, was the speaker binding posts

[JBL 4645]

Afternoon Heather

Okay what are the left and rights are they those, HUGE JBL 4341? And just what exactly do you have placed in the centre that’s giving you the issues and what films lately have you, been the playing that are the culprits to arise such concern?

[hjames]

Afternoon Heather

Okay what are the left and rights are they those, HUGE JBL 4341? And just what exactly do you have placed in the centre that’s giving you the issues and what films lately have you, been the playing that are the culprits to arise such concern?

From my original post ...
"Our current speaker is from the Northridge E Series - the EC25"

Yep, its not the same as the 4341s - then again, they aren't shielded, so I can't put one of them above or below our 34" (CRT) widescreen TV.

The EC25 was a good start, and a big upgrade over a cheap RCA a friend gave me way way back when we started with multichannel sound.
Probably a good starts is to do what Seawolf says - (pull that center, open it up, and) make sure all the drivers are connected properly.

[JBL 4645]

I’ve typed out different ideas to respond, but I’m dead-stuck on which to post. I can’t stress it any clearly Heather, matching fronts LCR or the highway LOL.

I bet the timbre when sending (pink noise) over LCR is dead giver away in the (centre) and you really need another matching set and revamp redesign of the front room to make it work and I would be very envious of you, if you had three of the use 4341.:)

[JBLAddict]

I just bought an LC1 ($399 on harman.com) from buy.com for $201, $240 total with shipping/tax

http://www.jbl.com/home/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=LC1&CheckProduct=Y

for the money it was a GREAT buy, EOS waveguide pure Ti tweeter, mylar super tweeter, dual polyplas 5 1/4 mids with very clear lifelife voice reproduction, you won't have the current problem with this unit.

sits between two L100As

[JBL 4645]

I’ve just stuck a JBL MR centre in, while re-plugging the centre front and this is only test and yuck with the crossover filter turned to off on the DCX2496 because I need full range because I’m using the LF lead connected to the MR centre the pink noise goes from (broad low mid and high left) control 5 to MR centre mid high its set to the (same db weighting) but its miles off.

This would take me the best part of the evening to re-EQ the fronts and I’m not about to waste the rest of night away. It’s so nasally with “The Empire Strikes Back” which is what I’m running now, back to the JBL control 5 and perfect LCR fronts, because if I listen to this for another 5 minutes I’ll be looking for long piece of rope.

The camera isn’t getting a good picture because of light-glare from the window on the right-side. That’s better now its clearer sound. “Echo-Three to Echo-Seven Han ole buddy ready me? “Loud and clear kid, what’s up”.

[Titanium Dome]

I've got my home system working fairly well, but - sometimes we have trouble making out dialog in films ... so I figure that means we need to upgrade the center channel speaker.

Our current speaker is from the Northridge E Series - the EC25

I'm debating over the idea of going with either an EC35

or tracking down an LC2
(although it looks better to me, I gather the LC1 3way is not quite as nice)

I gather they are somewhat comparable speaker?
Does anyone have any firsthand info about these speakers they can share?

Or - am I barking up the wrong tree and ought to look at some completely different center?
Ideas? Tips?

The EC25 and the LC1 have been consistently disappointing performers, particularly in the midrange. There's no dedicated midrange driver, so the duties are shared between the woofers and the tweeter. It's not an effective design for a center, especially when matched with speakers that can over power them.

The LC1 will be better than the EC25, the EC35 will be better than the LC1, and the LC2 will be better than the EC35.

They still won't be exactly matched to your mains, but the dialog will be much improved and clearer. On scenes where sound travels across the front, you might notice a subtle shift in timbre as it passes through the center, but if the main objective is to improve dialog, the EC35 and LC2 are prime candidates.

[hjames]

Thanks for the lengthy response TiDome - I'll check them out and see what I can find! I do prefer the wood look boxes over the black ash stuff ...


if the main objective is to improve dialog, the EC35 and LC2 are prime candidates.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Ti Dome,

Great post, hence I use 4208's acoss the front and leave the big boys to pure 2 channel stuff. The 4208's are also shielded although its not an issue for the LCD screen.

It seems to work and is more practical than attemping to provide anything approaching a 4345 centre.

[Rolf]

Hi all.

Every center speaker I have tried has been a disappointment to me. I'm not sure, but maybe the only way to get it right is to use the same for the center as for the left and right. In my case a 4343, but I have no room for such a large center.

What I have done is not to use a center speaker at all, and configure the processor in phantom mode. This works fine for me, but I must point out that I do not watch so many movies. Most 2ch hi-fi.

[JBL 4645]

Hi all.

Every center speaker I have tried has been a disappointment to me. I'm not sure, but maybe the only way to get it right is to use the same for the center as for the left and right. In my case a 4343, but I have no room for such a large center.

What I have done is not to use a center speaker at all, and configure the processor in phantom mode. This works fine for me, but I must point out that I do not watch so many movies. Most 2ch hi-fi.

That’s what I’ve been telling everyone else including my friends, but they’ve been brainwashed into believing the speaker that is sold within the home cinema market is the real deal.

Go and look behind, oh what’s the point just go to the Empire Leicester square JBL thread and look for yourselves, that is how its done, matching fronts and its not impracticable its only impracticable when it doesn’t work with mismatching fronts LCR.

Oh, are you missing something so special and unique with the centre channel. Some films carry a different sound that will be masked by left and right front’s phantom mode in Dolby 5.1 or the same with Dolby stereo Pro-Logic 4:2:4 you may hear dialogue level above a certain degree, what you won’t hear is some subtle sounds rustling of clothes or some footsteps, even breathing depending on the type of film.

[Robh3606]

Hello Rolf

I think it really depends on the center. I use a UREI 811C clone and it's works great. I think the mistake many make with centers is that they use too small a speaker. If you think about it it should be the largest with the best overall power handling as well. Over 50% of the film comes through it so you can't skimp. It can't be treated as an after thought. It's the heart of a 5.1 set-up.

Rob:)

[Titanium Dome]

There are instances where the center speaker is more than equal to the task, like the PC600 for example. It can outplay a PT800 any day of the week. The Array center is very potent as well.

I'd agree that sometimes a phantom is better, especially when there's no real equivalent center available. This is particularly true of older models, where you either need the exact same thing or you should just go phantom.

In the case of more recent models, there usually is a smaller speaker lower in the series that can be put to center duty if it fits the space (like an L3 with L7s or an XPL90 with XPL200s).

A unit like an LC2 (or the earlier EC35) can be used to some effect with similarly voiced speakers, even from other series, though the timbre will occasionally mismatch.

In the long run, I prefer a center over phantom whenever possible, even with a slight mismatch. The extra output from the center is discernible and can make an important contribution to overall dynamics when called for.

If I play two stacked PT800/PS1400 towers and use phantom mode, it sounds sensational. The imaging is great, the soundstage is wide, and I'd swear there was a center channel at work. When I run another PT800 (or better yet a PC600 for HT), as center, it's sensational+, and the dynamic range is noticeably more profound.

[Rusnzha]

In my S412/S38/S36/2241h 7.1, I replaced the S-Center with an Infinity Beta C360 center. The S Center never seemed to be up to the rest of the Studio Series, but the Infinity is an excellent match with the Studio Series speakers. I am also lusting for an LC-2 to try in that spot just to see what happens, but am very satisfied with the Infinity in that spot. I'm not sure how one of these would work in your setup, but you can always sell it if it doesnt work out.

[Rolf]

... you may hear dialogue level above a certain degree, what you won’t hear is some subtle sounds rustling of clothes or some footsteps, even breathing depending on the type of film.


According to the manual of my EAD processor every detail in the center is sent to L+R speaker in phantom mode. In fact they recommend phantom mode over the center setup because most people with larger L+R speakers can't find room for the center, and that is true in my case.

As Rob says: "The center should be able to out play the L+R speakers". So what I need is probably a 4350.:) :biting::banghead: No room for that. The size of my setup is (from L to R) 4343, PowerAmp on table, 52 inc "TV", PowerAmp on table and 4343. Only a few cm left. And yes, the "TV" is reaching from the floor and up. Over the "TV" there are shelves with other electronics. No room under or over it for a center.

[JBL 4645]

According to the manual of my EAD processor every detail in the center is sent to L+R speaker in phantom mode. In fact they recommend phantom mode over the center setup because most people with larger L+R speakers can't find room for the center, and that is true in my case.

As Rob says: "The center should be able to out play the L+R speakers". So what I need is probably a 4350.:) :biting::banghead: No room for that. The size of my setup is (from L to R) 4343, PowerAmp on table, 52 inc "TV", PowerAmp on table and 4343. Only a few cm left. And yes, the "TV" is reaching from the floor and up. Over the "TV" there are shelves with other electronics. No room under or over it for a center.

Rolf

Let’s see an up-to-date picture I mean a picture from today and lets see if there is room.


Edit:
I was thinking there’s KenWH and proud JBL owner who has some cinema PA speakers in his room and although last time we, were speaking to him, he had “hissing issues” LOL sure hope he got that sorted out in the end.

The centre channel is lying on its side and should be standing upright with the HF horn on top at the same height as the left and right otherwise you’ll; end up with dodgy timber issues. The horn is different not sure what model that is, but the left and right are JBL 2360-A.

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/501/P1010424.JPG

[hjames]

Well, as I told TiDome in a PM yesterday, I DID win the auction for a Cherry LC2, its on the way. With any luck I'll be able to pull the EC25 and put that LC2 into place, so maybe this time next week I'll have a happier tale to tell about Center Channel dialog!
Like I said before, I'm just not going to find another 4341 for center channel use, so although it won't tonally match them, the LC2 will have to do!

Its a skinny looking box but I can't wall-mount it to the window, so hopefully it can sit on its side on the shelf over the TV where the EC25 used to sit.


The EC25 and the LC1 have been consistently disappointing performers, particularly in the midrange.

The LC1 will be better than the EC25, the EC35 will be better than the LC1, and the LC2 will be better than the EC35.

They still won't be exactly matched to your mains, but the dialog will be much improved and clearer. On scenes where sound travels across the front, you might notice a subtle shift in timbre as it passes through the center, but if the main objective is to improve dialog, the EC35 and LC2 are prime candidates.

[JBL 4645]

Nice going on the bidding Heather, didn’t they have two more of the same because three across the fronts would be nice.

Why not get JBL control 5 and gathering on the size of you’re room, I think they fit in nice and snug with three placed over the front and there magnetically shielded as well. eBay as quite lot of control 5 thou very few JBL control 10 and 12SR in fact nothing on those and if you could get JBL control 10 or 12SR placed over LCR, very nice.

http://shop.ebay.com/items/?_nkw=JBL+control+5&_fromfsb=&_trksid=m270 (http://shop.ebay.com/items/?_nkw=JBL+control+5&_fromfsb=&_trksid=m270)

[hjames]

I hear you, but If I was to downgrade my left and right to smaller speakers,
and if the point was to match the speakers across the front, I'd stay with the Studio L series ...
http://www.jbl.com/home/products/series.aspx?SerId=SLS (http://www.jbl.com/home/products/series.aspx?SerId=SLS)

The L890s are the correct match for the LC2, not those Control 5s.




Nice going on the bidding Heather, didn’t they have two more of the same because three across the fronts would be nice.

Why not get JBL control 5 and gathering on the size of you’re room, I think they fit in nice and snug with three placed over the front and there magnetically shielded as well. eBay as quite lot of control 5 thou very few JBL control 10 and 12SR in fact nothing on those and if you could get JBL control 10 or 12SR placed over LCR, very nice.

http://shop.ebay.com/items/?_nkw=JBL+control+5&_fromfsb=&_trksid=m270 (http://shop.ebay.com/items/?_nkw=JBL+control+5&_fromfsb=&_trksid=m270)

[JBL 4645]

I can’t believe JBL would place the centre below the left and right LOL. These are the guys that put perfect sound to perfect picture and they stick the centre down by nearly a 15”. I’m only kidding. Also the centre isn’t the same as left and right or it might be the other-way-around. I guess JBL would have to send me some for close scrutiny.

The flat-screen should be raised and lowered alone with the LCR so that all LCR are the same height as I’m very picky on sound, sound comes first flat screen last.

http://www.jbl.com/home/images/overview/ENG_SLS.jpg


I like the JBL L830 three across the front yes. bi-wireable should go fine with (Behringer DCX2496) for extra loudspeaker maximum protection.

http://www.jbl.com/home/products/images/products/L830.jpg

GeneralMaximum Recommended Amplifier Power150WPower Handling (Continuous/Peak)75W/300WNominal Impedance8 OhmsSensitivity (2.83V/1m)90dBFrequency Response (±3dB)48Hz – 40kHzCrossover Frequencies2.5kHz, 20kHzUltrahigh-Frequency Driver3/4" (19mm) Mylar® dome, cast-aluminum chassis, mounted in a
Bi-Radial® hornHigh-Frequency Transducer1" (25mm) Pure-titanium dome in JBL EOS™ waveguide, cast-aluminum chassisLow-Frequency Transducer6" (150mm) PolyPlas™ cone with rubber surround, cast-aluminum chassis, HeatScape™ motor structure, Symmetrical Field Geometry™ (SFG™), oversized Kapton® voice coil, magnetic shorting ringMagnetically ShieldedYesBaffleLow-diffraction, IsoPower™ bafflePortFreeflow™, on rearNetworkStraight-Line Signal Path™ (SSP™)TerminalsGold-plated, 5-way binding posts, bi-wirableDimensions (H x W x D)15-1/4" x 8-3/4" x 12-3/4" (385mm x 222mm x 320mm)Weight per Speaker22 lb (10kg)GeneralPair-packed

A dozen x8 JBL L8400P subs placed below the screen fronts in close proximity (coupled) that should give you a mini Empire in the front room.

http://www.jbl.com/home/products/images/products/L8400P.jpg
GeneralAmplifier Power (RMS)600 WattsPeak Dynamic Power1200 Watts;
the Peak Dynamic Power is measured by recording the highest peak-to-center voltage produced by the power amplifier with its limiters disabled, across the output of a resistive load equal to minimum impedance of the transducer, using a 50Hz sine wave burst, 3 cycles on, 17 cycles off.Bass Driver12" (300mm) PolyPlas™cones with rubber surround, cast-aluminum chassis, HeatScape™ motor structure, Symmetrical Field Geometry™ (SFG™), oversized fiberglass voice coil, magnetic shorting ringFrequency Response (–3dB)22Hz – Low-pass crossover frequencyLow-Pass Crossover Frequencies50Hz – 150Hz, continuously adjustable (150Hz when using speaker-level connection)InputsGold-plated 5-way binding-post speaker-level; left and right line-level, switchable to LFEOutputsGold-plated, 5-way binding-post speaker-levelEnclosure DesignSealedBaffleLow-diffraction, IsoPower™Dimensions (H x W x D)16-1/2" (15-1/2" without feet) x 15-1/2" x 15-1/2"
(419mm [394mm without feet] x 394mm x 394mm)Weight per Speaker58 lb (26.4kg)


Last but not least x12 L820 for the ultimate surround channel wrap-around with no compromises.

http://www.jbl.com/home/products/images/products/L820.jpg
GeneralMaximum Recommended Amplifier Power150WPower Handling (Continuous/Peak)75W/300WNominal Impedance8 OhmsSensitivity (2.83V/1m)90dBFrequency Response (±3dB)55Hz – 40kHzCrossover Frequencies600Hz, 3.5kHz, 20kHzUltrahigh-Frequency Driver3/4" (19mm) Mylar® dome, cast-aluminum chassis, mounted in a
Bi-Radial® hornHigh-Frequency Transducer1" (25mm) Pure-titanium dome in JBL EOS™ waveguide, cast-aluminum chassisMidrange Transducer4" (100mm) PolyPlas™ cone with rubber surround, cast-aluminum chassis, HeatScape™ motor structureMagnetically ShieldedYesLow-Frequency Transducer6" (150mm) PolyPlas™ cone with rubber surround, cast-aluminum chassis, HeatScape™ motor structure, Symmetrical Field Geometry™ (SFG™), oversized Kapton® voice coil, magnetic shorting ringBaffleLow-diffraction, IsoPower™ bafflePortSealed enclosureNetworkStraight-Line Signal Path™ (SSP™)TerminalsGold-plated, 5-way binding posts, bi-wirableDimensions (H x W x D)12-1/4" x 15-1/2" x 5" (311mm x 391mm x 127mm)Weight per Speaker19 lb (8.6kg)GeneralWall-mount hardware included; wall- or corner-mount

[hjames]

I can’t believe JBL would place the centre below the left and right LOL. These are the guys that put perfect sound to perfect picture and they stick the centre down by nearly a 15”. I’m only kidding. Also the centre isn’t the same as left and right or it might be the other-way-around. I guess JBL would have to send me some for close scrutiny.

The flat-screen should be raised and lowered alone with the LCR so that all LCR are the same height as I’m very picky on sound, sound comes first, flat screen last.


Actually, you are the Movie Theatre guy ... and from your pictures I've seen that theatres put speakers BEHIND the screen.
You don't own a projector set or flat screen in your home, do you?
I don't have a projection screen to mount speakers behind in my home ...
But I'm not going to be bolting flat box speakers to the wall either - I think that looks, well ... terrible.

[JBL 4645]

Actually, you are the Movie Theatre guy ... and from your pictures I've seen that theatres put speakers BEHIND the screen.
You don't own a projector set or flat screen in your home, do you?
I don't have a projection screen to mount speakers behind in my home ...
But I'm not going to be bolting flat box speakers to the wall either - I think that looks, well ... terrible.

Yes, bolting them up does look dreadful, but you don’t what the speaker to move or have the tendency to move after hours and days of calibration and alignment.

I wouldn’t touch a flat-screen with 10 foot barge pole. However thou a video projector yes and if I can stay focused this summer and save-up a few £300.00 I can pick a brand new one up in the box.

Have a gander at this. I was just toying around with the idea because I like the specifications on the above JBL L series.

I would use a very careful individual blend of the LCRS mixed into the sub bass arrays with independent control of each of the LCRS channels, non of this (prefixed) bass manger nonsense, individual control!

The LFE.1 will be blended in, in the same way with individual control!

Or the top left and right subs used for left and right sub bass extension. The centre channel using the two middle top, rows of subs for sub bass extension. The lower four subs used for LFE.1 only.

Although it may be wise to go with plan A because some tones may have a few nulls or dips at certain frequencies from 20Hz to 120Hz that may need addressing with multiple parametric equalization

[JBL 4645]

I notice it looks like 8 JBL L8400P subs ... did you price those puppies yet?

Seems to me when TiDome recommended them in another thread last week they retail for $999 or so ...

if you're just blowing smoke like that, you may as well Array series for the fronts, long as its monopoly money anyway!

Well I think a cheep piece of rope would suffice:D a $£grand each!:eek: Okay I might have overstepped myself, this time, but the idea isn’t bad.;)

But consider this a cinema installation would be passive 18” sub and it needs an active loudspeaker management crossover and amplifier to run it, so the cost will be just a bit more for the original cinema version and a considerable lot less for the home cinema version. So 8k isn’t too bad unless you won a small $50k on the national lottery.;)

But even with 50k and bit of hard looking around the cinema suppliers you could get the real deal JBL cinema PA second-hand as there are some out there! Get the amplifiers brand new because they don’t cost too much depending on the make and model. Then add the dbx4800 only a few would be needed and a few 18” subs second-hand and amps for them brand new, surrounds second-hand and amplifiers band new.

You may have a few grand leftover from 50k for small video projector and you’re sorted.:D

Sorry! Make that around 100k I think you’ll be almost bone-dry by the time you’ve got three screen speakers a few subs and a few amplifiers and dbx4800.:blink: Unless, you can get this, all off the back of lorry for 50k.:rotfl:

[hjames]

$8,000 worth of subs is nuts - I'm here for the music primarily and the cinema, while fun, is secondary. Not trying to build a pro theatre in my little space. All I wanted was to improve the DIALOG (vocal range) in my center channel - the rest of this discussion is WAY over the top.


Well I think a cheep piece of rope would suffice:D a $£grand each!:eek: Okay I might have overstepped myself, this time, but the idea isn’t bad.;)

But consider this a cinema installation would be passive 18” sub and it needs an active loudspeaker management crossover and amplifier to run it, so the cost will be just a bit more for the original cinema version and a considerable lot less for the home cinema version. So $8k isn’t too bad unless you won a small $50k on the national lottery.;)

[JBL 4645]

$8,000 worth of subs is nuts - I'm here for the music primarily and the cinema, while fun, is secondary. Not trying to build a pro theatre in my little space. All I wanted was to improve the DIALOG (vocal range) in my center channel - the rest of this discussion is WAY over the top.
(But I do already have a pair of JBL amps running the pro monitors)

Of course, if you are aspiring to Pro theatres ... have you ever seen an IMAX film in an IMAX theatre? Makes a 70mm print look like low-res junk ...

Emma called for reservations yesterday - we have reservations to see "The Dark Knight" next week in IMAX at the UDVAR-HAZY branch of the Smithsonian National Air & Space Museum

http://www.nasm.si.edu/museum/udvarhazy/index.cfm
http://www.nasm.si.edu/visit/theaters/uhc/

http://www.imax.com/ImaxWeb/static/swf/tdk_takeover/index.html

THAT ought to rattle some fillings


Take along you’re camera to the IMAX and get some pictures of cinema inside the auditorium after you’ve both seen the film. I’d like to see what it looks like inside and outside. Expect SPL db levels of around 120dbc because that’s what I measured at the controversial (Sheridan IMAX head-offices Ireland) at Bournemouth seafront that is now been closed since 2005 it opened to poor response around 2000 or was it 2001 it should have opened in 1999 but fell so far behind schedule and with towns folks getting fanged to the teeth with the unsightly building that was labelled the “IMAX building”.

It was poor management that ran the site into the ground based both on site and at head-office because they didn’t want to play ball with the (Bournemouth council) and when IMAX bullshited the public back in 2005 saying there "closing down for a re-fit" in the local paper and on the front doors at the site, I knew it was bullshit, because this was brand new complex that didn’t need any major re-fit and even minor re-fit after-hours would be done over-night.

If you can buy a cheep SPL db metre thou I would imagine you have one already, and if so take it along and sneak it out and hold it low to the lap and the screen light should be just enough to see the needle and the peak levels of the film in the IMAX. I used mine all times well, almost and peaks on Cyber World 3-D was 120db Haunted Castle 3-D 120db.

A few others where slightly less I still have the IMAX tickets and I’m not sure if I wrote a small brief comment on the back of the tickets I’ll have to fish them out and have look, at the back.

You and Emma enjoy the dark knight crusaded battling the Joker.:)

IMAX uses the Sonics point source thou there was one IMAX cinema that I was looking at somewhere on the internet that uses JBL.

[jblsound]

I can’t believe JBL would place the centre below the left and right LOL. These are the guys that put perfect sound to perfect picture and they stick the centre down by nearly a 15”. I’m only kidding. Also the centre isn’t the same as left and right or it might be the other-way-around. I guess JBL would have to send me some for close scrutiny.

The flat-screen should be raised and lowered alone with the LCR so that all LCR are the same height as I’m very picky on sound, sound comes first flat screen last.


We all know that the best front end is having identical LCRs and at the same height. But its much better to have the center below the screen than above. And as long as the elevation of the center tweeter is within 12~18" of the main's tweeters all is good.
That is how I have my 3 PT800 LCRs and I add about 9" more, in the center speaker setup menu, than the real distance from the center to the seat. That makes the center sound as if its coming from the center of the screen.
If someone did have the center above the screen, then setting the distance shorter than actual would work.

[JBL 4645]

We all know that the best front end is having identical LCRs and at the same height. But its much better to have the center below the screen than above. And as long as the elevation of the center tweeter is within 12~18" of the main's tweeters all is good.
That is how I have my 3 PT800 LCRs and I add about 9" more, in the center speaker setup menu, than the real distance from the center to the seat. That makes the center sound as if its coming from the center of the screen.
If someone did have the center above the screen, then setting the distance shorter than actual would work.


Then you start playing around with the term (psychoacoustics) the way we perceive sound.

Delaying setting I have my centre with long delay and I’m not going to talk about the politics of the delay time setting. I’ve set it to work with LCR but with half-pan sounds that have half the sound in the centre and half on the left and right and it works fine.

Hard pans doesn’t really matter it’s the half pans that I’m more concerned about and it sounds good in the two seat sofa it took a it doing with the DCX2496 a bit of trail and error to make it work.

[robertbartsch]

...every center channel speaker I have had (new JBL, Klipsch, etc) has been a huge dissapointment for me - can;t hear voices clearly.

I pulled a center klipsch recenty from one HT in our house and replaced it with an Altec 511 horn and compression driver...... VAST improvement....voices very clear now!

It needs another driver to help down low, but overall, I think I am on the right track...

[Zilch]

Heather KNOWS what to do; she just doesn't want to think about it.... :p

[hjames]

Heather KNOWS what to do; she just doesn't want to think about it.... :p

Sure - doing the right thing means 3 x 4341 speakers across the front - acckk!
OR
Selling off the 4341s and getting something lesser that I can have 3 of -
and probably moving to have a better music room - but thats not gonna happen until retirement time!

Of course, it would be doable to make another L200 plus 3 way and just swap systems -I just need the cabinet and another 2234 to do that!

I also should get rid of the shelves I use as a TV stand (and that big HD CRT) and getting something larger and lighter ... but thats not in the budget either.

Ahhh - gotta run to work!

[JBL 4645]

Various films have different types of mixing style because its imposable to make “Apollo 13” (1995) Saturn V rockets sound like the real thing and even thou there’s a few loud moments where Tom Hanks yells out “this is flight surgeon horseshit” it sounds realistic. When the Saturn V is rumbling all around the CM and he says the clock is running its fairly soft against the huge back noise.

Even in “Heat” (1995) it has soft natural spoken clear dialogue and a few loud tense moments with the bank heist “GO” followed by automatic machinegun fire puling away with high showers of metal being chipped away on the bodies of cars and even a few loud glass shattering moments.

When Neil goes to Trejo’s home the dialogue goes down to whispery dialogue moment and I haven’t head issues in hearing this not at the ABC screen 1 Bournemouth Dolby stereo SR via JBL 4675-A nor letterer in the year with the laserdisc played in Dolby stereo and creational not with the DVD in (six-track Dolby stereo digital).

(Unless the background noise level is too high) then yes I would have trouble in hearing because it would be conflicting with the movies soundtrack, just in the same way as you would listen to soft piece of music that starts off soft then grows in loudness then it will mask some portions of the noise background level.

Also have loud speaker that you like and trust with conference one that’s universally flexible both with music and films. What am I saying! “The Sound of Music” (1965) has best of both worlds thou I would stake “Grease” (1977) is better, not necessarily better then The Sound of Music mind you, just using better means of mix with Dolby techniques, thou there’s nothing wrong with the Todd-AO approach.

[Zilch]

Naw, Heather, I'm thinking DIY with 4341 HF and UHF plus a pair of suitable midbass drivers.... :thmbsup:

[toddalin]

Sure - doing the right thing means 3 x 4341 speakers across the front - acckk!
OR
Selling off the 4341s and getting something lesser that I can have 3 of -
and probably moving to have a better music room - but thats not gonna happen until retirement time!

Of course, its would be doable to make another L200 plus 3 way and just swap systems -I just need the cabinet and another 2234 to do that!

I also should get rid of the shelves I use as a TV stand (and that big HD CRT) and getting something larger and lighter ... but thats not in the budget either.

Ahhh - gotta run to work!


Got Space? :D

http://www.largescaleonline.com/eimages/lsolpics/Team_Member_Pics/toddalin/room1.jpg

http://www.largescaleonline.com/eimages/lsolpics/Team_Member_Pics/toddalin/L200-2235.jpg

http://www.largescaleonline.com/eimages/lsolpics/Team_Member_Pics/toddalin/center-2235-w15gti.jpg

[hjames]

Naw, Heather, I'm thinking DIY with 4341 HF and UHF plus a pair of suitable midbass drivers.... :thmbsup:

Ahhh - now the ideas ...:blink:
But I've already bid and won a center on daBay,
plus - its already been packed and its on the way!
(Looking for delivery & a soundcheck Tuesday)

But if its had a good life and not been treated too rough
'spose I can resell a Cherry finish LC2 easily enough -

Suitable midbass ... that'd have to be pair of LE10s ...
The rest I have ... 'cept a box to cook them ins!

And as to 'got space' query -
actually, not much left!

The leather sofas off craigslist last week ate the room!

[Hoerninger]

Heather,
do you remember the Wall of Sound by Grateful Dead (http://www.audioheritage.org/html/history/jbl-pro/jbl-pro.htm)? :D
You was closer to them than I did. ;) They used JBL.
Resort some spare parts and there is a way.

Todd, your arrangement is very attractive. :applaud:
___________
Peter

[Zilch]

Suitable midbass ... that'd have to be pair of LE10s....I wasn't more specific because I don't know. Giskard can tell you what'll work best.

[Gotta ask nice, though. ;) ]

To timbre-match and keep up with 4341 mains, build a custom 4341 center, without the big woofs....

[jblsound]

Got Space? :DLooks like you've got plenty. Isn't nice when you can let your main speakers breathe? My room (17.5ft) isn't quite that wide, or so it would seem. There should be a law that sez at least one room in the house should be at least 17~18 ft wide. Not these 13ft wide, or less rooms in typical tract homes.

[Rolf]

Wait ... isn't that what I said in an earlier post???


...every center channel speaker I have had (new JBL, Klipsch, etc) has been a huge dissapointment for me - can;t hear voices clearly.

I pulled a center klipsch recenty from one HT in our house and replaced it with an Altec 511 horn and compression driver...... VAST improvement....voices very clear now!

It needs another driver to help down low, but overall, I think I am on the right track...

[jblsound]

How good a center works first depends on how good the design is and second its placement. Plus, it never hurts to add 2 or 3db to the center setting in the receiver.
Ever since MC systems came out, the center channel speaker has, for the most part, been the weak link.
Going back to '02, the only center speaker I auditioned, back then, I thought was worth buying was the James Symphonic LCR speaker. I almost bought the Symphonic system, until I read a review of the JBL PS, later that spring.
Of coarse, it took another 4 1/2 years to find a set of PT800s at an affordable price. Having 3 PT800s across the front is superb. Although, I'd like to get a PC600 for a comparision.

[Titanium Dome]

Having 3 PT800s across the front is superb. Although, I'd like to get a PC600 for a comparision.

Yes, it is superb.

[GTekie]

Hi Heather
Looking at your post on centre speakers made me want to add my two cents worth.
In an HT configuration its primary function is to keep the dialog centred to a video image My EC-25
performs this task flawlessly.
In a SACD application it does quite well too although according to Sony it is best to to use 5 speakers the same.
I would make sure the source material and the appropriate decoders are engaged before condeming the EC-25. Perhaps you will have a sale-able speaker.
Over & out

[hjames]

Hi Heather
Looking at your post on centre speakers made me want to add my two cents worth.
In an HT configuration its primary function is to keep the dialog centred to a video image My EC-25
performs this task flawlessly.
In a SACD application it does quite well too although according to Sony it is best to to use 5 speakers the same.
I would make sure the source material and the appropriate decoders are engaged before condeming the EC-25. Perhaps you will have a sale-able speaker.
Over & out

Thanks for the comments!
I'll have a chance to see come Tuesday when the LC2 arrives and I swap it into place over the monitor. If that fails to clear the audio, its the Zilch concept for me - pull out my spare LE85 and 2405 slot and 3133 crossover, snag a pair of 10s and build a center to match the fronts (without a 15, of course)!

[JBL 4645]

I’ve taken a little time to do this rather quick Frankenstein make-over :D hope you’re not too offended.

I feel a DIY centre will be a bad decision and that good JBL bookshelf types placed in the room along with the re-positioning of the widescreen CRT and matching sets placed above only on horizontal platform fitted and screwed to the width of the front, I see no issues.

Re-run new cable lengths with, a DIY approach is simple and cost effective that won’t bust the bank.

Yes that means place the audio equipment to the back of the room or in different room with only the main AVR for user control while keeping fan noise isolated whether its low SPL db level or not.

Reduce some of the clutter that you’ve gotten so used to and place it room where it’s going to have less interference on the sound waves. Coffee table in different room because that is going to have a few reflections bouncing off, it’s surface.

The small sofa place in different room as that is really standing in the way of left channel, you’d might as well stuff the sofa right up close, because from this view its right in the way. The alternative is to rise the huge JBL onto a box that can handle the weight, and with each left and right placed up higher it should clear the sofa or use some imagination, its not rocket science, I mean why go to all, this trouble only to have the sound blocked.

I have a similar issue on the left hand side in my room, and once I get around to drilling a few holes into the skirting board and to feed the cables though the wall, most of the audio equipment is going into the bedroom, period! It takes up nearly 5 feet 4 inches and I find it unsightly as it’s interrupting with percale frequencies.

[4313B]

Thanks for the comments!
I'll have a chance to see come Tuesday when the LC2 arrives and I swap it into place over the monitor. If that fails to clear the audio, its the Zilch concept for me - pull out my spare LE85 and 2405 slot and 3133 crossover, snag a pair of 10s and build a center to match the fronts (without a 15, of course)!That's actually not a "Zilch concept" at all and it's a viable solution. We've been doing that since the center channel concept made it into mainstream culture and cable moguls started building home theaters in their new constructions. You would want to use the same network type that is in your 4341's though, and probably alnico tens as well.

Have you simply tried phantom mode? I've found that those large 4-ways are particularly well suited for movie dialogue. I do know what you mean about the dialogue getting lost with certain loudspeaker systems.


Selling off the 4341s and getting something lesser that I can have 3 of - Well... there's that.

Have you ever heard a PT800/PC600 set?

[jblsound]

Have you simply tried phantom mode? I've found that those large 4-ways are particularly well suited for movie dialogue. I do know what you mean about the dialogue getting lost with certain loudspeaker systems.

Well... there's that.
Have you ever heard a PT800/PC600 set?
Phantom works as long as you're sitting dead center.
The LC2 is a very good center and should provide very good dialog, whether its timbre is close enough is a whole other thing.
And as I mentioned before, adding 2~3db to the center volume is always a good thing. And I'd try putting it below the screen, out front.

The PT800/PC600, well they need no introduction, as there are ony 3 JBL systems considered better, although 10~20x the price.
I certainly haven't heard any systems I would take over my PT800s.

[Chas]

Heather, for HT purposes only, my DIY 175DLH with a pair of Parts Express 6 inchers in a PE prefinished cherry box works nicely in combination with my 4430's. I know you weren't talking about DIY here, but it is pretty easy to put together.

[Don C]

Here's a case where one one speaker from a pair of S-38 bookshelf speakers is damaged. The other one that's not damaged would probably make an excellent center speaker. Hopefully, they'll finish with a reasonable cost.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300244798781

[JBL 4645]

Here's a case where one one speaker from a pair of S-38 bookshelf speakers is damaged. The other one that's not damaged would probably make an excellent center speaker. Hopefully, they'll finish with a reasonable cost.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300244798781

That would only be damaged in the likes of brutal centre channel bass moment where the peak of the frequency as gone to the limit and damaged the small centre channel or any centre channel with carelessness. I list a few offenders.

Titanic is one the opening starts of with nice smooth bass line on the James Horner score, when the images fade from the past to present day with two submersibles descending to the bottom of the ocean seabed, the next scene as sudden deep low end bass in the centre with very mild low end on the sub bass LFE.1 at the time, left and right is also mild.

So don’t take the bass for granted on 5.1, mix it can go anywhere and it will cost you if you don’t use loudspeaker management crossover systems.

[hjames]

I appreciate the heads up on the various possible ideas,
but I have already bought a Studio L series center, the LC2 in a Cherry wood finish.

Its on the way and should be here Tuesday.

Until I give that speaker a fair listen, it doesn't make sense to get involved in bidding for another speaker.
If the LC2 doesn't work out, I'll put it up for sale and hope to get my $200 back out of it!

I did try putting one of my L60Ts over the set and just got nasty colour-smear.

I do have parts to begin mocking up a center to match the existing fronts - I have a spare LE85 and 2405 slot - I'd just need quaility 10" to match what's in the 4341s. And of course, that wouldn't be shielded, which is a problem with CRT style HDTVs.
But without a cash infusion, I'm not likely to swap the TV set out anytime soon.
So - I'll have to settle on a tonal shift to some degree ...


LC2 - 4-Way Dual 6" (150mm) Wall-Mount Center Speaker
General
Maximum Recommended Amplifier Power150W
Power Handling (Continuous/Peak)75W/300W
Nominal Impedance8 Ohms
Sensitivity (2.83V/1m)92dB
Frequency Response (±3dB)50Hz – 40kHz
Crossover Frequencies700Hz, 4kHz, 20kHz
Ultrahigh-Frequency Driver3/4" (19mm) Mylar®-dome, cast-aluminum chassis, mounted in a Bi-Radial® horn
High-Frequency Transducer1" (25mm) Pure titanium dome in JBL EOS™ waveguide, cast-aluminum chassis
Midrange Transducer4" (100mm) PolyPlas™ cone with rubber surround, cast-aluminum chassis, HeatScape™ motor structure Low-Frequency TransducersDual 6" (150mm) PolyPlas™cones with rubber surrounds, cast-aluminum chassis, HeatScape™ motor structures, Symmetrical Field Geometry™ (SFG™), oversized Kapton® voice coils, magnetic shorting rings
Magnetically Shielded Yes
BaffleLow-diffraction, IsoPower™
PortN/A, Sealed enclosure
Network Straight-Line Signal Path™ (SSP™)
Terminals Gold-plated, 5-way binding posts, bi-wirable
Dimensions (H x W x D)12-1/4" x 22" x 5" (311mm x 559mm x 127mm)
Weight per Speaker29 lb (13.2kg)

[toddalin]

If I were to do it with a couple 10s, I'd use W10GTis wired for 6 ohms. These are readily availale new for ~$200 each. Two of these could easily out-output your 4313 woofers for low bass, but still provide a very clear and meaningful midrange and transistion to the LE85.

I do this with just one W10GTi and a 2425 in my surrounds and in a 1.5 cu ft cabinet, these produce as much deep bass as my 2235s in L200 cabinets with one port blocked. Granted I give up beaucoup efficiency, which is why I recommend two in parallel.

BTW, these are much smoother than my 2235/LE175/HL-91/075s in L200 cabinets.

[4313B]

The point is to have some kind of cohesion. How about she replace the 2121's in the 4341's with W10GTi's too?

[Titanium Dome]

The point is to have some kind of cohesion. How about she replace the 2121's in the 4341's with W10GTi's too?

:rotfl:

[hjames]

The point is to have some kind of cohesion. How about she replace the 2121's in the 4341's with W10GTi's too?

Ackkkk!!

The pity is I already sold/traded the 2 pairs of 2123s that I had last year - The one set turned into cash that allowed me to buy a pair of freshly reconed 2122s that replaced the 2123s that had been in the 4341s when I got them.
The 2123s I pulled got swapped for a set of 2235s that went into the 4341s, allowing me to move the 2234s that had been in the 4341s when I got them, and the 2234s went into those L200 boxes upstairs.

So - no spare 10s these days!
Plus, after all the work to get the right driver sets in those boxes, I'm not likely to pop some W10GTis in there now.

[4313B]

Plus, after all the work to get the right driver sets in those boxes, I'm not likely to pop some W10GTis in there now.Darn! I was hoping to trade you some W10GTi's and W15GTi's for your 2122's and 2235's. :(

I could also trade you some 2370's for your 2307/2308 combos and we could take a sawzall to your baffles and bolt them in. :)



Seriously though, I hope your new center does the job for you. :yes:

[hjames]

Darn! I was hoping to trade you some W10GTi's and W15GTi's for your 2122's and 2235's. :(

I could also trade you some 2370's for your 2307/2308 combos and we could take a sawzall to your baffles and bolt them in. :)



Seriously though, I hope your new center does the job for you. :yes:

gots me sum 2215s from the original box tho -
wanna git 'er done with them?:D

Coarse I otter jest by s'more of these bolt to the wall speakers and dump them big ol' boxes.
Gotta be someone round these parts wants big walnutty boxes?

[hjames]

Here's a case where one one speaker from a pair of S-38 bookshelf speakers is damaged. The other one that's not damaged would probably make an excellent center speaker. Hopefully, they'll finish with a reasonable cost.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300244798781

Are you familiar with this series?
Do they sound good?

I gather they are out of production, and the MSR price was around $599 /pair.

in a June 2001 review I read "the S38 is magnetically shielded for potential home-theater applications"
http://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/365/

[Titanium Dome]

Heather

One thing to consider in setting them up is that the LC2's sensitivity is 2dB less than your mains, so be sure to make that compensation. Of course, you'll probably use an SPL meter to calibrate anyway, but in case you don't, bear the 2dB difference in mind.

[hjames]

Heather

One thing to consider in setting them up is that the LC2's sensitivity is 2dB less than your mains, so be sure to make that compensation. Of course, you'll probably use an SPL meter to calibrate anyway, but in case you don't, bear the 2dB difference in mind.

Great, thank you!
I've been running the EC-25 3db hotter that the "mains", so I'll make a note to drop it 1 db when I hook it up.

[toddalin]

The point is to have some kind of cohesion. How about she replace the 2121's in the 4341's with W10GTi's too?

That's just being ridiculous. The efficiencies are way too far off and the impedience is wrong for the existing crossover. :blink:

[4313B]

We all have our definitions of rediculous. Mine is constantly seeing automotive transducer posts being brought into these kinds of discussions. Although I suppose since this is the Lansing Product General Information forum...

[toddalin]

We all have our definitions of rediculous. Mine is constantly seeing automotive transducer posts being brought into these kinds of discussions. Although I suppose since this is the Lansing Product General Information forum...

Some people need to learn to think outside of the box. Others need to realize that they are even in the box. :hmm:

[Chas]

Darn! I was hoping to trade you some W10GTi's and W15GTi's for your 2122's and 2235's. :(

I could also trade you some 2370's for your 2307/2308 combos and we could take a sawzall to your baffles and bolt them in. :)


Forget about it - Just motor over to your nearest Bose dealer.....:p

Them New England Banker's need all the help they can get, right now!

[4313B]

Some people need to learn to think outside of the box. Others need to realize that they are even in the box. :hmm:Yep, you're absolutely right. The bottom line is moving product and if your posts can help move product then that's all that really matters. :yes:

Thanks! :thmbsup:

[Don C]

Yes, I've heard them. They are good. I've considered replacing my L20T3 surround speakers with a set, but haven't seen the right deal at the right time. The bass can sound a bit exaggerated if they are too close to a corner. There are pictures of the inside of some Studio series somewhere in the archives here. The cabinets are covered in the cheap vinyl, but the drivers are good quality, with cast baskets, and no foam to rot away.
I'm an advocate of using a regular bookshelf speaker with this layout as a center speaker. You don't have to put up with the narrowed dispersion that comes from having two midranges side by side. That's why I use an LSR32 for a center.
I suggested this because it looked like it might be a good deal on a good center speaker for someone, but they probably wouldn't be a very good match to the rest of your system.




Are you familiar with this series?
Do they sound good?

I gather they are out of production, and the MSR price was around $599 /pair.

in a June 2001 review I read "the S38 is magnetically shielded for potential home-theater applications"
http://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/365/

[Rusnzha]

Originally posted by Don C


There are pictures of the inside of some Studio series somewhere in the archives here. The cabinets are covered in the cheap vinyl, but the drivers are good quality, with cast baskets, and no foam to rot away.



http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=10866&highlight=studio+series+exposed

[Zilch]

I do have parts to begin mocking up a center to match the existing fronts - I have a spare LE85 and 2405 slot - I'd just need quaility 10" to match what's in the 4341s. And of course, that wouldn't be shielded, which is a problem with CRT style HDTVs.Alnico, Heather.

Think alnico.... :yes:

[BMWCCA]

Alnico, Heather.

Think alnico.... :yes:So that explains why I've had a TV on top of my C37/030 for almost thirty years with no problem? I wondered what the big deal about shielding was!

[4313B]

She knows already, see above. I think this thread is over. She bought a center.

[BMWCCA]

She knows already, see above. I think this thread is over. She bought a center.Not until we know if it made a difference, or not.

[toddalin]

Alnico, Heather.

Think alnico.... :yes:

Still may not cut it. When I had the two 130As/LE175/075, it still affected my Mits 45" table top before I had the projector. That's the reason the components are mounted low in the cabinet. This maximized the distances.

http://www.largescaleonline.com/eimages/lsolpics/Team_Member_Pics/toddalin/speaker4.jpg

[hjames]

Sounds like they may be handy for replacing my L20ts with newer tech.

I'll keep an eye out for them, thanks to all of you!!






Yes, I've heard them. They are good. I've considered replacing my L20T3 surround speakers with a set, but haven't seen the right deal at the right time. The bass can sound a bit exaggerated if they are too close to a corner. There are pictures of the inside of some Studio series somewhere in the archives here.

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=10866&highlight=studio+series+exposed

[toddalin]

I appreciate the heads up on the various possible ideas,
but I have already bought a Studio L series center, the LC2 in a Cherry wood finish.

Its on the way and should be here Tuesday.

Until I give that speaker a fair listen, it doesn't make sense to get involved in bidding for another speaker.
If the LC2 doesn't work out, I'll put it up for sale and hope to get my $200 back out of it!

I did try putting one of my L60Ts over the set and just got nasty colour-smear.

I do have parts to begin mocking up a center to match the existing fronts - I have a spare LE85 and 2405 slot - I'd just need quaility 10" to match what's in the 4341s. And of course, that wouldn't be shielded, which is a problem with CRT style HDTVs.
But without a cash infusion, I'm not likely to swap the TV set out anytime soon.
So - I'll have to settle on a tonal shift to some degree ...


LC2 - 4-Way Dual 6" (150mm) Wall-Mount Center Speaker
General
Maximum Recommended Amplifier Power150W
Power Handling (Continuous/Peak)75W/300W
Nominal Impedance8 Ohms
Sensitivity (2.83V/1m)92dB
Frequency Response (±3dB)50Hz – 40kHz
Crossover Frequencies700Hz, 4kHz, 20kHz
Ultrahigh-Frequency Driver3/4" (19mm) Mylar®-dome, cast-aluminum chassis, mounted in a Bi-Radial® horn
High-Frequency Transducer1" (25mm) Pure titanium dome in JBL EOS™ waveguide, cast-aluminum chassis
Midrange Transducer4" (100mm) PolyPlas™ cone with rubber surround, cast-aluminum chassis, HeatScape™ motor structure Low-Frequency TransducersDual 6" (150mm) PolyPlas™cones with rubber surrounds, cast-aluminum chassis, HeatScape™ motor structures, Symmetrical Field Geometry™ (SFG™), oversized Kapton® voice coils, magnetic shorting rings
Magnetically Shielded Yes
BaffleLow-diffraction, IsoPower™
PortN/A, Sealed enclosure
Network Straight-Line Signal Path™ (SSP™)
Terminals Gold-plated, 5-way binding posts, bi-wirable
Dimensions (H x W x D)12-1/4" x 22" x 5" (311mm x 559mm x 127mm)
Weight per Speaker29 lb (13.2kg)

Heather, I hope that your amplifier has lots of current. This speaker has minimum impedience of just 3.2 ohms and a nominal impedience of just 4.4 ohms. :blink:

Also, JBL is a "little optimistic" as to the specifications as measured in the lab by S&V.

Frequency response (at 2 meters)
front left/right: 84 Hz to 20 kHz ±3.0 dB
center: 84 Hz to 20 kHz ±3.6 dB
surround: 84 Hz to 20 kHz ±3.6 dB
subwoofer: 37 Hz to 110 Hz ±2.1 dB

Sensitivity (SPL at 1 meter with 2.8 volts of pink-noise input)
front left/right: 88 dB
center: 89 dB
surround: 85 dB

Impedance (minimum/nominal)
front left/right: 3.4/4.3 ohms
center: 3.2/4.4 ohms
surround: 5.0/8.0 ohms

Bass limits (lowest frequency and maximum SPL with limit of 10% distortion at 2 meters in a large room)
front left/right: 80 Hz at 90 dB
center: 80 Hz at 93 dB
surround: 80 Hz at 91 dB
subwoofer: 20 Hz at 85 dB SPL
104 dB average SPL from 25 to 62 Hz
112 dB maximum SPL at 62 Hz
bandwidth uniformity 92%

All of the curves in the frequency-response graph are weighted to reflect how sound arrives at a listener's ears with normal speaker placement. The curve for the left/right front channels reflects response of the L820 averaged over a ±30° window, with double weight at 30° (the most typical listening angle). The center-channel curve reflects response of the LC2 averaged over ±45°, with double weight directly on-axis of the primary listener. The surround-channel curve shows the response of the L810 averaged over ±60°.

S&V has a review at the link.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/speakers/1214/jbl-studio-l-series-home-theater-speaker-system.html

[hjames]

Quick, to the point, and accurate! The LC2 works great!

The LC2 arrived today and after a dinner guest headed off, I had a chance to pull the old speaker and swap in the new. We only gave it the briefest of a test tonight, SACD DSD of Roxy Music "Avalon", then a bit of TV (John Stewart's Daily Show and a piece of Lawn Order) - but the center channel sounded better than it has in a long time! Emma says the dialog sounds clearer.
I'll get a chance to play a movie over the weekend and do some real testing, but so far ... magnifique!

Thanks for steering me towards this speaker model :thmbsup:


07-19-2008, 02:43 PM
The EC25 and the LC1 have been consistently disappointing performers, particularly in the midrange. There's no dedicated midrange driver, so the duties are shared between the woofers and the tweeter. It's not an effective design for a center, especially when matched with speakers that can over power them.

The LC1 will be better than the EC25, the EC35 will be better than the LC1, and the LC2 will be better than the EC35.

They still won't be exactly matched to your mains, but the dialog will be much improved and clearer. On scenes where sound travels across the front, you might notice a subtle shift in timbre as it passes through the center, but if the main objective is to improve dialog, the EC35 and LC2 are prime candidates.

[4313B]

Quick, to the point, and accurate! The LC2 works great!
Cool!

[Fred Sanford]

Quick, to the point, and accurate! The LC2 works great!

The LC2 arrived today and after a dinner guest headed off, I had a chance to pull the old speaker and swap in the new. We only gave it the briefest of a test tonight, SACD DSD of Roxy Music "Avalon", then a bit of TV (John Stewart's Daily Show and a piece of Lawn Order) - but the center channel sounded better than it has in a long time! Emma says the dialog sounds clearer.
I'll get a chance to play a movie over the weekend and do some real testing, but so far ... magnifique!

Thanks for steering me towards this speaker model :thmbsup:

Cool- so you wired up the multi-channel for the SACD, or through the stereo into a surround mode?

Thank Emma for the grillin' & the Tummy Torpedos ;).

je

[hjames]

Cool- so you wired up the multi-channel for the SACD, or through the stereo into a surround mode?

Thank Emma for the grillin' & the Tummy Torpedos ;).

je
Sure - nice to have you, and thanks for poppin' by!
Once you left I pulled the rack out and ran 6 rca cables from the OPPO to the HK receiver, selected when I choose Direct6.
I still have the R-all and L-all analog feeds for non-surround stereo CDs, and the optical digital for DVD to use the receiver's DTS or Dolby decoders for movies in surround.
Of course, I will try the Direct 6 next time we watch a movie and see what happens.
The DVD video signal is directly fed via HDMI to the TV, and unaffected by the setting of the HK.

I also haven't had a chance to try any of the DVD Audio discs (Sting, or the Beatles LOVE)

[hjames]

It may look kind of kabuki, but it does sound real nice!
Tho I think I'll probably keep the grill on this one most of the time!

Next project is a pair of wheeled plinths so I can move the big speakers a bit easier!

[jblsound]

Ya, the LC2 is a real good center, as is the entire Studio L series.
One guy over at AVS was using 3 LC2s, either all across the front, or was using two of them for surounds.
He liked it better than the L820, which is the same speaker, minus one 6" mid-bass driver. He thought the LC2 provided much fuller sound, due to having two 6" drivers

[Fred Sanford]

Sure - nice to have you, and thanks for poppin' by!
Once you left I pulled the rack out and ran 6 rca cables from the OPPO to the HK receiver, selected when I choose Direct6.
I still have the R-all and L-all analog feeds for non-surround stereo CDs, and the optical digital for DVD to use the receiver's DTS or Dolby decoders for movies in surround.
Of course, I will try the Direct 6 next time we watch a movie and see what happens.
The DVD video signal is directly fed via HDMI to the TV, and unaffected by the setting of the HK.

I also haven't had a chance to try any of the DVD Audio discs (Sting, or the Beatles LOVE)

Don't know that player, there may be an OPPO menu setting for activating the analog outs with DTS/DD modes- worth a look in the manual.

Enjoy- I'm almost unpacked & inventoried! When I dig up that SACD sampler I have I'll mail it on to you.

je

[Titanium Dome]

Quick, to the point, and accurate! The LC2 works great!


That's good news. Glad it worked out.

Enjoy the new Oppo too.

[JBobL]

Heather, I hid my LC2 behind a 22" LCD monitor. That's how crowded my room is! ha ha. It's a great speaker. An L880 packed into a sealed wall mount.:) You must have won the last one on the planet.

[Hoerninger]

You must have won the last one on the planet.
Amazon.COM or DE or am I wrong?
__________
Peter

[jblsound]

Heather, I hid my LC2 behind a 22" LCD monitor. That's how crowded my room is! ha ha. It's a great speaker. An L880 packed into a sealed wall mount.:) You must have won the last one on the planet.
For whatever reason Harmanaudio, both ebay store and factory store are out of the LC2. But Amazon still has them in all 3 colors.

[JBobL]

I have a Cherry LC2 won months ago and a Black LC2 recently both from Harman Ebay store.:) LC2 just kills my old S centerII. :)