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ajmernone
06-26-2008, 07:18 PM
I have a pair of JBL l100's ( I LOVE them!) but I want to have THE BEST home theater in town (this is hard in my town) And I think I want to keep the l100's in my system but am open to change.

I'll tell you what I have as a setup now...

I have a Harmon Kardon AVR 745 as a receiver (I think I want a pre-amp, amp configuration)

2 JBL l100's- used as front L&R speakers (powered by the AVR 745)

4 Definitive technology ProMonitor 1000's- Surrounds (want to replace with JBL's)

2 SpeakerCraft TIME five speakers- Also Front L&R channel (powered by separate amp)

Harmon Kardon Citation tape deck

Harmon Kardon Citation tuner

Harmon Kardon Citation eleven amp (100 watts per channel)- Drives the SpeakerCraft speakers

Pioneer PRO-150FD Plasma

I have a budget of 50k and some general audio knowledge.
Do your best!!!

Thanks in advance!
A.J.

oznob
06-26-2008, 07:30 PM
http://www.jbl.com/array_series/default.aspx?Language=ENG&Country=US&Region=USA

You could likely do an Array series system for that kind of coin and use the L100's as front effect speakers.:thmbsup:

Fred Sanford
06-27-2008, 04:08 AM
Or/and:

http://www.jblsynthesis.com/where_to_buy/purchase_installation.aspx?Language=ENG&Country=US&Region=USA#1

Dealer in Schenectady ?

& see what your coin can buy. There was a b-load of used Synthesis gear on
ebay recently... seller might be on this forum now & then (IIRC). :dont-know

Figure on proper installation/setup costing a good portion of your budget.

... proudly save the L100's for "vintage" stereo system display/playback
if you like.

My old company was a Synthesis design/install company, in Mineola, NY. The main office has moved to Plainview since I left NY, but they're absolutely qualified to design/install/program Synthesis systems. Let me know if you'd like to get in touch with them- they handle brands other than JBL, too...

Is your $50K budget for system/wiring/labor/room/furniture, or just the AV gear?

Good luck,

je

Skywave-Rider
06-27-2008, 08:59 AM
Since ur a fellow New Yorker, curious as to your room size. Space here at a premium, as you know. In Manhattan?

If you are spending that much on monitors, perhaps you should look into listening room design and equipment as a total package....

http://www.wsdg.com/

Fred Sanford
06-27-2008, 01:09 PM
My old company would often partner with Walters-Storyk on room designs (especially for the record company's listening rooms)- they're a great resource.

je

toddalin
06-27-2008, 01:19 PM
Here's a really good (and fairly reasonable) start on that synthesis system. Noted as brand new too! (No affiliation.) ;)

http://images.craigslist.org/01150501021201160920080626f49832a5712fa3354200e4a5 .jpg

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lgb/ele/733457645.html

ajmernone
06-27-2008, 06:09 PM
I am a home theater designer. I don't need a designer. What I do need is speaker, amp, and preamp ect. advice.

By the way my room dimensions
11' long by 12' wide

Robh3606
06-27-2008, 07:39 PM
I am a home theater designer. I don't need a designer. What I do need is speaker, amp, and preamp ect. advice.

Just go up on ebay and get 5 more L100's and you are set for a 7.1 set-up.

Do you really think we are going to take you seriously??

Rob:)

Mr. Widget
06-27-2008, 07:39 PM
By the way my room dimensions
11' long by 12' wideAre you putting us on?


Widget

Mr. Widget
06-27-2008, 07:42 PM
Do you really think we are going to take you seriously??Must be some sort of joke. The thing is, you could use L100s for decent rears if your room is large enough. I considered it in my last setup.


Widget

Robh3606
06-27-2008, 07:46 PM
11X12?? Kinda pushin it for L100 rears don't ya think??

Rob:)

Skywave-Rider
06-27-2008, 07:49 PM
My old company would often partner with Walters-Storyk on room designs (especially for the record company's listening rooms)- they're a great resource.

je

Hey, that's great to know. I hope we can chat some time!


I am a home theater designer. I don't need a designer. What I do need is speaker, amp, and preamp ect. advice.

By the way my room dimensions
11' long by 12' wide

I hear from reliable sources that there are "home theaters" in the Tombs about that size.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tombs

Mr. Widget
06-27-2008, 07:54 PM
11X12?? Kinda pushin it for L100 rears don't ya think??:yes:



Widget

Zilch
06-27-2008, 08:16 PM
The forum has been inundated with Nightbrace replicants of late.... :p

Allanvh5150
06-27-2008, 09:33 PM
Obviously space is at a bit of a premium but you can shoehorn a lot of gear into a small space if you are clever. My present room is a tad smaller than yours and I have 4 L150's, 2 L86's and an EC25 center. But that is about to change somewhat. If you have that much cash to spend I would go out and by a top of the line home theatre amp, Yamaha or whatever, maybe 200 watts per channel and build from there. If you like the L100's, stick with em and get some more. Or sticking with the vintage theme, get a pair of L220's, or the like, for your fronts. If you want 7.1 surround it is far easier to go with a "total package" amp setup. Of course you can always add some more power amps to it if you wish. Oh, and dont forget a sub or two as well. :)

Mr. Widget
06-28-2008, 12:19 AM
...but you can shoehorn a lot of gear into a small space if you are clever.:no:

You can pack a small space with gear if you are a museum... not if you really want to use it.


If you have that much cash to spend I would go out and...If you are talking Ultimate, you can blow 50 grand on the carpet and drapes.

On the other hand, with a great deal of care and some restraint, you can have a very fine home theater for $50K. I don't think it would include any gear with the triple tuning fork logo though. :D


Widget

Allanvh5150
06-28-2008, 12:29 AM
I got the distinct impression that he wanted to know about amps and speakers not carpet and drapes. :)

And whats wrong with gear with the triple tuning fork logo on it?

Fred Sanford
06-28-2008, 04:30 AM
Originally Posted by Fred Sanford http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=213600#post213600)
My old company would often partner with Walters-Storyk on room designs (especially for the record company's listening rooms)- they're a great resource.

je




Hey, that's great to know. I hope we can chat some time!

Sure, hit me with a PM some time. I wasn't on the commercial team very often, so didn't use W-S on many of my projects, but really did respect the work they did. I managed our smaller residential projects, in the $100,000 - $250,000 range usually. Had my hand in lots of others here & there, though.

je

mikebake
06-28-2008, 08:53 AM
I am a home theater designer. I don't need a designer. What I do need is speaker, amp, and preamp ect. advice.

I have a budget of 50k and some general audio knowledge.
Do your best!!!


A.J.

Tell ya what, there A.J.; hows about YOU do your best and we'll sit back and watch, eh?

Mr. Widget
06-28-2008, 08:58 AM
I got the distinct impression that he wanted to know about amps and speakers not carpet and drapes. :)True, but when you enter the realm of "ultimate" home theaters you will find both. Besides.. you need something to work with for your room acoustics. ;)



And whats wrong with gear with the triple tuning fork logo on it?I don't know if they make high end gear for other markets, but here in North America their gear is far from the best. In the past they have made superior products, but these days they seem firmly planted in the average quality world with extra bells and whistles thrown in as you move up their price points.


Widget

toddalin
06-28-2008, 09:56 AM
I don't know if they make high end gear for other markets, but here in North America their gear is far from the best.

Widget

Absolutely nothing wrong with these! And at the price he is looking, this would be a contender with plenty of coin left over. I love my RX-Z9.

http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/Images/YEC/AV_Receivers/Main/M_rxz11.jpg

http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=558249&CTID=5000300

Still, for the tiny room he is looking at, perhaps something like Ashley set up would be more appropriate (no balls though!).

Mr. Widget
06-28-2008, 10:04 AM
Absolutely nothing wrong with these! Except the sound. :rotfl:

Sorry, I couldn't help myself. In all seriousness, for people who want countless surround modes Yamaha has them in spades, but for sound quality there are much better choices. First of all going with a dedicated processor and external amp or amps.

Here is another point. Yamaha doesn't offer Audyssey. Denon, Onkyo, Integra, and NAD do. Audyssey is not a gimmick, it offers real bennefits especially for difficult rooms.


Widget

toddalin
06-28-2008, 10:22 AM
Except the sound. :rotfl:

Sorry, I couldn't help myself. In all seriousness, for people who want countless surround modes Yamaha has them in spades, but for sound quality there are much better choices. First of all going with a dedicated processor and external amp or amps.

Here is another point. Yamaha doesn't offer Audyssey. Denon, Onkyo, Integra, and NAD do. Audyssey is not a gimmick, it offers real bennefits especially for difficult rooms.


Widget

Yamaha uses a YPAO system.

If this is what Audyssey does, I can live without it. This is obviously a form of compression and eq and any compression/eq is a distortion of the original. (Not that the Yamaha effects are not also a form of distortion as they alter the original signal..., but ONLY in the surround channels.)

"Dialogue is more intelligible. Loud passages maintain impact. Soft whispers are clearly heard. The sophisticated technology behind the scenes mimics what you would do with the volume control, but it is one step ahead adjusting the volume without you noticing that it's happening. And when the volume level changes, Audyssey Dynamic EQ, an integral part of Dynamic Volume, makes sure that the frequency response and surround envelopment are adjusted to be consistent at all volume levels."

This also plays havoc with the Fletcher-Munson curves, and that's not natural.

A nice thing about the BIG Yamahas is that the surround effects are ONLY in the surround channels and the front channels stay uncolored. As such, you can dial in as much (or little) as you want.

As for sound quality, my Yamaha is every bit as (probably more) quiet as my big Crown PSA-2XH.

When was the last time you actually sat and listened to a big Yammie that you were able to tweek to your liking (cause you can certainly do plenty of tweeking)?

ajmernone
06-28-2008, 10:27 AM
[QUOTE=Allanvh5150;213627]I got the distinct impression that he wanted to know about amps and speakers not carpet and drapes. :)

THANK YOU!!!

Mr. Widget
06-28-2008, 10:44 AM
Yamaha uses a YPAO system.

If this is what Audyssey does...It certainly isn't.

Audyssey is quite unique. It is able to tune a room in phase, frequency and time. Many systems including DEQX claim to do this. Audyssey is the first one that really works.

http://www.audyssey.com/technology/index.html



When was the last time you actually sat and listened to a big Yammie that you were able to tweek to your liking (cause you can certainly do plenty of tweeking)?I have used several of their receivers including their TOTL models over the past few years. I have been able to tweak away for hours... and you are right, they allow you to really mess around with the sound, but I have never been able to get the best sound from the room they were in.

But, hey... if you have one and it works for you then you bought the right piece of gear. For me, when someone asks, I steer them away from the triple tuning fork.


Widget

Mr. Widget
06-28-2008, 10:51 AM
THANK YOU!!!Would you like to be a bit more specific?

Since you are a professional Home Theater Designer, I would assume you have a pretty good grasp of what amps, processors, speakers, projectors, screens, bass traps, etc. are available.

What do you need to know that you don't already?


Widget

toddalin
06-28-2008, 11:39 AM
It certainly isn't.


Widget

Sure it is..., I took the quote directly from their web site. Are you going to contradict their own literature? :blink:

Mr. Widget
06-28-2008, 01:16 PM
Sure it is..., I took the quote directly from their web site. Are you going to contradict their own literature? :blink:Todd, I don't want to argue with you, but the YPAO system is simply not as sophisticated as the one developed by Audyssey. Yamaha's YPAO system uses pink noise and is essentially an automated parametric equalization system. It will also automatically set the correct delays for speaker placement and correct for gross phase errors (polarity of each channel). Pioneer has a similar system. Theirs is called MCACC.

Audyssey is quite a bit different and uses a special impulse noise source and this allows it to also do phase and time correction. For the best correction with Audyssey they offer MultiEQ XT. To activate this you have to buy a separate license key and have your dealer come out and set up the system. The fee for this is typically $500 including the license. To set this system up your dealer hooks up a PC to your processor or receiver and it does the significant number crunching that Audyssey MultiEQ XT requires. The dealer also has special software and a calibrated preamp and mic from Audyssey.

As far as taking info from these companies' literature, they all claim to be the panacea we have all been waiting for, but with the exception of Velodyne's Digital Drive bass EQ system, Audyssey is the only one of these automated systems that has really proven effective. The others all "work", but for the most part, I find none of them do a better job than I can do with a good parametric EQ.


Widget

toddalin
06-28-2008, 02:53 PM
Todd, I don't want to argue with you, but the YPAO system is simply not as sophisticated as the one developed by Audyssey.

Widget

Never said it was.

I only meant to note that the big Yammies are not the POS that you make them out to be. :( And don't confuse those at the top with those sold at the mass consumer level.

For a home theater, one could do far worse than better.

Mr. Widget
06-28-2008, 03:36 PM
I only meant to note that the big Yammies are not the POS that you make them out to be.I guess my critical tone comes across as far more negative than intended. I certainly didn't mean to imply that the Yamaha gear was crap. I simply don't find it to be worthy of recommendation.

As for the RX-Z11 with a list price of $5,500 I think you can do much better with an Integra DTC 9.8 processor and an ATI AT2007 amp combo which together list for $4,600. However as I noted above, if a maximum number of surround modes is important to you, then you really should consider the Yamaha.

Which by the way, brings us back on topic. :D I'd highly recommend the Integra/ATI combo as the backbone of any high end home theater.


Widget

Allanvh5150
06-28-2008, 05:56 PM
Seems to me that too many people are far too concerned with the badge on the front. I dont know mant people that evn use the surround modes on their amps. The only surround mode I use is 7 channel stereo just so the other speakers dont feel left out when I play music. One of my setups uses a Yamaha amp but only for the processing side. It is hooked up to a bunch of Perreaux power amps but only because the power section on the Yamaha aint big enough. When I have played this system to people, the only reaction that I get is "Holy F%$#"! Music or film. That is the only reaction that I need. :) It is pretty easy to fix a bad room with a bunch of heavy drapes. Your freinds wont care much if the left front is 4 degrees out of phase with the right. It seems to me that you like the sound of your L100's so go with it but you may prefer somthing with a bit more kit for the mains. L150's or L220's dont have a much bigger footprint and the do come up from time to time. You dont really need a sub with them either. The JBL studio monitors are worth a look as well but the occupy a lot of real estate. The JBL array series are worth a look. They create huge impact before you eevn turn them on!

grumpy
06-28-2008, 06:16 PM
Ajmernone has received plenty of input, given the lack of guidelines
in the original request.

Hope the result was entertaining for someone :barf:

Mr. Widget
06-28-2008, 06:20 PM
Seems to me that too many people are far too concerned with the badge on the front. You mean like one with the initials JBL. :bouncy:

I agree with you that brands don't mean much... especially these days where so many products are simply commodities that a manufacturer will buy as an OEM device and have their own name put on it.


When I have played this system to people, the only reaction that I get is "Holy F%$#"!I think that goes for pretty much everyone here. :D

We are not "normal" people and do not have "normal" systems. Thirty years ago even a typical college dorm had a number of high quality receivers and large Advents, KLHs, ARs, JBLs, Infinities, etc. etc... today "normal" homes are doing well if they have something better than a boom box, usually some Bose product. When those "normal" people come by one of our houses and hear the sounds that a high end or high quality vintage system can do they are always shocked.


Widget

Mr. Widget
06-28-2008, 06:23 PM
Hope the result was entertaining for someone :barf::rotfl:


Widget

jblsound
06-29-2008, 10:40 AM
Harmon Kardon Citation eleven amp (100 watts per channel)

Just looking at your first post, you don't know what you've got, unless its a typo: The Citation Eleven is a pre-amp, not a power amp.
Did you mean Citation II, which is a tube power amp?

Considering the size of the room, installing $50K worth of speakers and gear would be a total waste of cash, I wouldn't spend that kind of cash on gear in any room smaller than 18' x 25' and bigger would be better.