Making or buying cabinets?

[robertbartsch]

So many sellers these days seem to be parting-out speakers systems, in part, as a result of high shipping charges, I assume.

What do most folks do when they buy components and try to assemble a system from components;

1. make their own boxes in the basement,
2. buy inexpensive commerically available PA boxes and alter them, for example, add wood veneer, new cloth, etc.
3. Have a cabnet shop make boxes from scratch to their own specifications?
4. Mount them in the ceiling and hope the roof does not leak?

[SMKSoundPro]

Strippers and Flippers.

The parts are worth more than the whole!

Its that simple.

Generally frowned on, here, I surmised.

Seems as though one person is stripping the components out of one box then selling to another individual trying to re-assemble the same speaker box somewhere else. Just sell the whole speaker system to the other person.

Vintage parts is another ball of wax. I understand buying pieces and parts to reburbish or replace broken or missing parts, BUT I will not strip and flip a whole pair of perfectly good speakers.

[The above views are solely my own, and are not in any way to be construed as those of the owner of this forum, moderators, or other members of this forum, Or of JBL, or Harmon Inc. :blah: ]

Scott M. Koeller.

[Zilch]

What do most folks do when they buy components and try to assemble a system from components?There is another option which you don't mention, which has become modus operandi for me, as I have neither the skills nor equipment for box building:

For every system parted out, there are empty cabinets suitable for adaptive reuse which can often be had for free. Sometimes you have to be creative to get them, but for every LE14A on eBay, for example, there may be some nice S99 cabs available from a local speaker dismantler. I've illustrated in other threads what can be done with those, KLH6s, AR4, AR2, L200, L220, 4507, etc.

My local commercial vintage audio recycler has a monthly garage sale. There's always a wall of empty cabinets to choose from, some of them very high quality.... :thmbsup:

[Allanvh5150]

If you have the time and inclination you can build your own cabs. If you dont have the skills or the gear to do it, your local cabinet shop will be able to do the job for you at a reasonable cost. I have recently finished 4 L150's that I built up from parts. I sourced the parts through Ebay and even purchased 2 L150's complete and got the guy to strip them for me and just send the speakers and electronics. Living in New Zealand, the cost to get cabinets here is huge money and just isnt worth the bother. Also, when you build yourself, you can customise the finish or even the shape of the box. And if you want to build them into a wall or ceiling space you can build a basic box with a nice front on it and still get the benefits of the JBL designed cabinet. :)

[macaroonie]

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=17238

[duaneage]

www.partsexpress.com sells boxes in knockdown that are easily assembled. www.madisound.com also sold cabs, other sites do too.

I build my own and enjoy it. I'm currently working on a few ideas and may post some here. Search for 4411 clones and see a pair i made 3 years ago.

[robertbartsch]

Thx.

I've looked for what seems like hours at the different sellers of boxes without finding any furnture grade enclosures that would house a 15 inch LF driver and a moderate sized compression driver and horn lens.

Seems like all the cabinet designes today are for massive woofers of 6 inches or so.

I'm drawing some plans now and will see if I can get a cabinet maker to build them.

[subwoof]

perhaps an empty vintage cabinet to begin the rebuild process??

There is enough room to install the 2452 / 2381 combo in the 4331 cabinet and gee - the cabinet is already tuned for the standard JBL foam 15 2235H....

sub

[robertbartsch]

Blue Blue:

This is exactly what I need. Are you the owner of these boxes?

I suppose it would cost a small fortune to ship them to Westchester NY; right? I base that on recent experience from shipping much smaller L100 cabinets to NY from Calf., which was a near C-note via UPS.

[Zilch]

Well, they're a little wider than your target 18", of course.

Unless it's multiple projects you're talking about in the maddening plethora of threads you've open in various forums here.... :yes:

[hjames]

Blue Blue:

This is exactly what I need. Are you the owner of these boxes?

I suppose it would cost a small fortune to ship them to Westchester NY; right? I base that on recent experience from shipping much smaller L100 cabinets to NY from Calf., which was a near C-note via UPS.
Its not like you are shipping them coast to coast -
He's in NY and YOU are in NY ...
take a nice drive and GO GET 'EM!

[robertbartsch]

...good idea!

finger lakes for me is just a 7 or 8 hour drive, I guess...

[subwoof]

I just spent 70 bucks to NOT EVEN FILL my minivan...:o(

And it's even worse for the guys who drive the rigs so figure ANYTHING over 20 miles will cost a C note.

Yes, those are all mine - I have a habit of rescuing cabinets / systems that have fallen into disrepair and or are empty. I have a cabinet shop and can recreate grills, bases and veneer where needed and for some reason, these all plopped into my sphere of detection in the last 2 years while I had time to surf.

Now that the wife is doing better, and the oldest will be of to college in the fall, I will need to get some of these FINISHED and sold to pay the looming tuition bills.....

I see that you have multiple threads and without digging through all of them, exactly what are you looking to accomplish??

Remember the laws of physics + acoustics + economics before you decide on a 15" woof in an 18" wide box (1) that goes to 20hz (2) and is only 100 bucks (3)

sub

ps - I can drive to manhatten in less than 4 hours so for you it's a little less.

[robertbartsch]

Sub:

OK, so I assume you have collected these to refurbish them in your cabinet shop, so I suppose I would prefer not to re-finish anything unless I have no other choice. They need not be perfect but I'm married; got the picture?

Ideally, I would like something that is not too wide but the CABs shown below could work. Are they about 22-24 inches wide; right? I need grills that are rebuilt or re-buildable. Are the front baffles removable or are they glued?

[email protected]

Could you make some measurements and provide a few price ranges for two or three CAB pairs that you think might work for me?

For example, this info would be nice:

OEM Cab - (JBL - L-XXX)
Condition - scale 1-10 (X.X)
Size (W X H X D)
Grill ( Y/N)
X-Overs (Y/N)
Price range ($XXX - $XXX)
Replace front baffle (add $XX)
Rebuild grill (add $XX)

Thanks....

[hjames]

Sub:

OK, so I assume you have collected these to refurbish them in your cabinet shop, so I suppose I would prefer not to re-finish anything unless I have no other choice. They need not be perfect but I'm married; got the picture?

Ideally, I would like something that is not too wide but the CABs shown below could work. Are they about 22-24 inches wide; right? I need grills that are rebuilt or re-buildable. Are the front baffles removable or are they glued?


Thanks....

hmmm he's got 4331 cabinets - you might to check out the original 4331 designs and see if it is anything like your needs ...

You can do a little research right here on this site:
Go to the Library -
look under PRO speakers -
http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/specs/pro-speakers/pro-speakers.htm

The brochure shows the 4330/31 is a 2 way version in a nice cabinet ...
the dimensions and specs are here ...
http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/specs/pro-speakers/1974-4330-4331/page3.jpg

Course you can put a slot tweeter in there and make it a 3 way easy enough ... just get a 3 way crossover, or a 2 way and biamp.

[subwoof]

I have 4 each 4331, 4333 and 4341 of various vintages. The 4331's have no components /networks and I do not have all the components for the rest ( yet ).

If size really matters I have a pair of 4315's ready to plug + play:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=7532&highlight=4315

Here you get the same teenage bat killer tweeter and the same 4" big coil woofer ( in a 12" frame ) but in a size that has a better WAF.

For a variation on that theme, I have a pair of the SAME cabinets that are now 250Ti's ( with 7 coats of hand rubbed poly ) with a choice of LF components. These are considered the final evolution of the all cone 4 way system and although they do not have the sloped baffle, are modest in size.

To possibly list all the combinations, finish levels and such would be exhaustive and based on previous experience, a waste of time because somebody, somewhere, somehow will chime in ( on line ) with a less expensive alternative that ( fair or not ) will scrap the deal. And any number published will come back to haunt me should the cost of this effort rise even more...

So I suggest a large beer, some wrist guards, coax favor from the wife and do some serious reading in the LH library and the *many many* threads on this site that detail the parameters, nuances and success stories of them before making a decision.

The big JBL monitors, at this day and age, have provenience so no two pair will have the same history, sound or character. It's like old corvettes and mustangs that get refurbished once, twice and forever. Sometimes they just can't be fixed or "corrected" no matter the effort. These *are* 30 year old speakers. But DAMN they are fun to listen to and like the vintage car, put a grin on your face when you hit that volume knob..

Do some searching and get back to us. We are delighted to offer advice but please do the homework first..:)

:cheers:

sub

ps: yank your email address before your inbox speaks russian.

[robertbartsch]

Sub:
Ok, so you are waiting to acquire the necessary matching drivers to fill your now empty cabinets and then you will refurbish the boxes, fill them with drivers and offer them for sale as complete systems; right?

I have components and I'm just looking for a pair of cabinets. I really did not think this would be so complicated, so I'll design some cabinets and have them built locally.

I've owned Altec and JBLs for >40 years, and the hype surrounding the now old but still great technology never ceases to amaze me.

[subwoof]

There is no exact answer to your question - and we still do not know (A) what system you are looking for and (B) what components you have. If you had given us a list of the components you have already acquired it would help!

I have almost all the components for these but it takes time to have the surrounds replaced, frames reconed, replacement diaphrams ( or original model drivers ) found and in some cases, the components will *not* be original to take advantage of improvements since the originals were introduced.

And I am *not* certain that these will all be restored, again it's a case by case basis.

Again, what are you looking for?? you have posted many times on many threads but we still don't know...you say size restrictions but no specifics? You have assumed and supposed my intentions for the speakers I have but have not asked me directly what you want...??

I too have owned JBL's (and a very few altecs) for 30+ years and while the hype is sometimes just that, at least it's better than the psuedo-science that the high end brokers pass onto the public with "directional" interconnects, unobtanium rare metal connectors and oxygen free ( don't open the bag! ) cables that claim skin effect for audio frequencies....:)

sub

[Gary L]

I had to fill the cooler with beer before even thinking about responding here!

I'm half way between Westchester and the Finger Lakes region so it is safe to say we are all in the same boat.

I am a cabinetmaker and cringe at the thoughts being kicked around here in this thread.

Just take a moment to look at some real facts of the matter.

Real cabinets can easily be refilled and restored to make a complete pair of real, Vintage speakers.

Brand new, beautifully made cabinets can be much better then the originals yet will likely never command the $$ of a true 43XX and I don't care who makes them.

The cost of the raw materials alone will probably be more then the cost to buy and ship a real cabinet. The labor involved to build from scratch or to completely refinish to original glory is many hours of tedious work and very few who have these capabilities will even get involved if you are weighing the difference between buying decent used and building new from scratch.

There are so few of us who have the equipment and talent to build brand new cabinets to exact look A like specs that it isn't even an option because they won't work for less then nothing.

You simply cannot call a brand new cabinet for a 43XX filled with the exact load set a 43XX.

The way I see it, and I see it all the time, if what you want is a 43XX then your only real option is to buy all the components and a set of decent cabinets and have them restroed or DIY to a standard you are willing to accept. This might mean something as simple as reveneering and a finish coating to match what was original.

Any way you slice it, materials, labor and shipping are many times more expensive today then they were 20 or 30 years ago when these beautiful speakers were first made.

My rules of thumb are simple.

If the speaker can be bought and shipped in decent and repairable condition then this is the best option.

If you can buy the components and then find real and repairable cabinets to refinish and make them good again, this is option #2.

If you think for one minute that you can buy the guts and have a cabinetmaker produce high grade cabinets to put them in then you might better think again or dig deep and when you get all done you will never have a 43XX that can command the price of a nice original.

My hat is off to you Subwoff for saving that which can never be reproduced and I thumb my nose at those who would destroy perfectly good cabinets from years long gone because they are too expensive to ship and easier to build from scratch. I want what they are smoking!

BTW, most of the real but poorly designed and built cabinets can be upgraded with some internal bracing and tweeks we now understand as long as they are not shot beyond repair and were properly designed to begin with short of the lack of good bracing.

Gary

[4313B]

What do most folks do when they buy components and try to assemble a system from components;Build the correct enclosures for the intended application.

If you can't build them then you're going to have to buy them.

And if you have them made for you don't assume that a cabinetmaker knows anything about building a loudspeaker enclosure or you might end up with a real expensive box of rattles and whistles.

[subwoof]

Well put.

Like big speakers, I have a shop full of big delta power tools and the 30 year wisdom to get this far with 9.75 fingers ( long story ). And a shop full of scopes, analyzers + such for the electronics.

I can and have made clones, replaced entire baffles and bottoms ( common ), filled, filed, foamed and futzed to bring all manner of vintage JBL's back to life.

And since I have an Electronics degree and have been fixing audio gear since I was old enough to drag them home from my AM paper route on the back of my 5 speed, the ability to buy an entire system and restore just about anything ( given time and effort if warranted ).

BUT BUT the many ( market and life ) variables over time make choices and efforts a balancing act and some amount of "unfunded mandate" is required to work on these. Had I speculated in the early 80's by buying apple and microsoft stock instead of JBL speakers to build / rent PA's I would be on the other side of the equation looking for instant gratification.

It's like that '69 chevy II with the big block 396 that doesn't have power ANYTHING, shit gas mileage, uncomfortable seats and steering that a tractor would envy...BUT when you mash that pedal, and see those bushes go by at warp speed, no amount of computer this, sensor that can make you wipe that grin off your face...

And knowing that it is a REAL chevyII, not a nova with a new suspension and paint job adds to the allure. Ever noticed the abundance of old mustangs these days? You can buy entire body panel sets and just about every part needed to restore / clone.

Just like col. Steve Austin.

sub

[mech986]

Sub,

Your pic of the saved cabinets is at once beautiful yet sad. Beautiful that the someone thought enough to save these cabinets and that JBL blue can't be beat.

Sad that others would gut these speakers and the parts are scattered to the winds.

But ones man's parts are another's step in restoration.

I've got 6 L300 cabinets in similar states because I couldn't bear to see them wasted either. Interesting that all of these cabs have the walnut veneer. Did one pair of 4333's lose their bevel edge face? Do you have any cabinets in Studio Gray finish? I have one pair of 4331's in that finish.

Can I use your pic for an avatar?

Bart

[subwoof]

As mentioned, every pair has a story...

The pair of 4333's without the trim were soffitt mounted and someone repainted them a slightly lighter shade - with a flash it screams at you..:)

I rebuilt a set of 4343's some years ago and cut a lot of spare trim ( and kept the survivors ) and left pieces exposed to the ambient light in the shop to darken...so they match better...

Not all were gutted - I simply do not store them that way and of course many components are in process and I am not in a hurry because food / gas + beer are first in line.

It really sucks when a full tank of gas cost the same as an E140 when I made scoops...

You can use the pic for an avatar and I have one message for the wives with size issues, look on the bright side. The collectibles your husband drags home could be rusty cars in your front + back yard..and driveway..and garage..

If you were closer I would like to swap cabinets and get some L300's. I had massive JBL PA speakers back when they were sold but could never justify the outlay. Funny how the scales tip and evolve.

I had a set of 4331's way back when that were grey - but I have found that to be pretty uncommon around here.

Just finished a set of L200's ( now 300's ) and my daughter will be taking them to college this fall.

insured...

sub

[Allanvh5150]

Gas in the US is cheap. Think of us down in NZ where the price is $2.13 a litre, roughly equates to $9 a gallon!:(

[subwoof]

I was teaching my oldest to drive earlier this year and commented that when I was in high school, the decimal point was over one place for gas...and pizza slices...and sneakers...

I learned to drive right before the gas lines in '73 and 5 bucks got beer, gas and park admission for a station wagon full of guys.

...sigh...

[Gary L]

LOL!

I learned to drive in the mid '60s when we had gas wars. All the stations tried to under sell the next guy and we could buy 4 gallons for a dollar.

Talk about a 180 degree turn, now it is 4 dollars for 1 gallon.

I am so glad the Saudi's are our friends and trading partners!

Gary

[robertbartsch]

OK, so everyone has their views on restoring vintage speakers using all the correct components and original restored cabinets.

I have owned and enjoyed an Altec VOTT system for >30 years, for example. So I can relate to these views on the old gear and I respect all of your opinions.

HOWEVER, I'M NOT RESTORING VINTAGE AUDIO GEAR FOR THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT!

Last week, I purchsed some near new JBL Pro drivers (2226H, 2426H) for a price that is very low. Since my wife is not found of gray carpet covered trapaziod PA boxes, I need to swap the components into a more respectible showcase for one of our HT rooms.

Ideally, this would be a near furniture grade wood cabinet that is on the narrow side - say 18 or 19 inches. I suppose an older box that once contained 15" studio monitor drivers would do in a pinch but they are kinda wide for my needs.

[robertbartsch]

I began driving cars one year before the OPEC oil embargo of 1974.

In inflation adjusted dollors, gas today is LESS expensive than it was following the 70s embargo. Back then, we had gas wars, and on occasion, gas was sold for 16 cents per gallon. When the embargo hit, you could not buy gas very often but when it was availible, it sold for +70 cents a gallon.

In absolute terms, the price of gas in the late 70s, for example, was not prohibitively high for average Americans. However, the price increase of approximately 100% or more sent the economy into a tailspin for a large part of a decade. Jimmy Carter did help things either but oil was a big factor.

Unfortunately, the recent oil price spike is likely to result in a 70's type economic collapse for the US and a 1929 depression situation for other parts of the globe.

[cooky1257]

Gas in the US is cheap. Think of us down in NZ where the price is $2.13 a litre, roughly equates to $9 a gallon!:(

Ahem, you're lucky:)Its currently $2.36 a litre in the uk-$10 per gallon:banghead:

[Gary L]

Well Robert, in your case I kind of doubt you will find any vintage cabinet made to order for your desired needs.

There is a computer program I think called Box Plot and when you have the specs of all the drivers you want to use you just punch them in and it will help you design the cabinets for those particular drivers.

As mentioned above, any cabinetmaker can build a box however there is a bit more to building superior boxes for audio use. There are many here who can help once you set forth the size and load set parameters.

I wanted model 19s for my living room but did not have 30" on each side to stuff real 19s into. I did have 24" and with help from members here I now have very nice model 19 components that fit both my available space and our furnishing decore. They cost twice as much but are worth a great deal less then real 19s if I wanted to sell them but they are priceless to us.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v722/Gamalot/Speakers/DSCN0923.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v722/Gamalot/Speakers/Cab14.jpg

For those who want to hear some interesting facts about the price of oil, check out this long video.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3340274697167011147 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3340274697167011147)

Gary

[subwoof]

I might have a set of new cabs in the woodshop that would fit the bill. They were an extra pair in a big batch that I made for a SR company and they are raw birch - easily veneer able.

They are set up for 15, 10 and horn and the horn cutout is for the 2332 array but the newer PT-H95 is the same size - and I think the 2370A would fit.

I have a pair of 2123H 10" and since the 10 is subchambered, you can add that later if desired. There is no crossover and I suggest triamping - I have a used JBL 553 that would be perfect.

I will get a picture posted later tonight after I feed the piles of teenagers here - last day of school...:)

sub

[robertbartsch]

Gary: Wow, I LOVE the Altecs you have in the one-of-a-kind cabinets! This brings back some great memories that I hope to re-live some day. I assume from the "naked woofies" that you do not have frequent guests of the wee type.

Wow, "like" you even "like" watch "like" Hannity and "like" ....Colmes on "like" TV too??? ...Which "like" guy to "like" more best? I suppose Shawnie will be pissed when ...Ohhh" Bama wins every "like" state in "like" November.... Oh sh##, Ronnie is rolling in the grave...


Woff: OK, keep me in mind, Im flexible, if you are flexible.

[Gary L]

My grills come off for pictures only but no "Wee Ones" run around here.

Hannity & Colmes would be much better if one of them was gone!

If, as you elude, OOH Bama wins this race then it will completely justify all my thoughts that america deserves to be exactly where we are right now because we are the dumbest, most gullable idiots on the face of this earth.

I've been around way too long to even listen to this "WE NEED CHANGE" BS again. IMHO, what we need is a government that can work together to make changes that work for us instead of for their personal needs or their party. These fools have been fixing Social Security since I was old enough to know what it is and it is still just as broke! I can't even imagine how a screwy National Health Care system would ever work or how much more that will cost us all. I have a hard enough time just finding a doctor who speaks my language.

Thanks for the compliments about my speakers. I am the only one in the entire world who has them and they sound great but there are many out there that sound much better, all things considered.

Gary

[subwoof]

Here are the pics and a short description. The cabinets are raw, unsanded / finished / etc

3/4 multiply birch, dado'ed joints, screwed and glued. These will NEVER come apart.

40" high, 20" wide and 17.5 deep, 15 degree trap.

Dual 4" PVC stubs for ports, tuned for 2226 at present.

1/2 Exp 16ga metal screens siliconed into pine frames - can be clothed.

Vb ( after subtracting doghouse + bracing ) = 4.0 ft3

Can be modified for 1.125 lips and walnut veneer + trim to match 43XX style. They can also be cut down to 18.5 wide with a modified trap config ( 3" recess on sides ) but it's a lot of work.

Horn shown installed is the 2332 ( 1.5" 90 array metal ) on top are 2373 ( 1" thread-on ) and PT-95H 1.5". Both are fiberglas composite and will fit.

Curious cat not included.

sub

[pos]

Horn shown installed is the 2332 ( 1.5" 90 array metal ) on top are 2373 ( 1" thread-on ) and PT-95H 1.5". Both are fiberglas composite and will fit.
Sub, how do the 2332 and the PT compare to your hear?

[subwoof]

Have not had the time to compare them side by side but others have said that the 2332 is problematic above 10K - I think this was fixed with the PT.

They are nearly identical except for the contours.

sub

[robertbartsch]

Subwoof:
Could you please leave your contact information here:

[email protected]


Thanks.