New SBS HIFI Pro system hits Europe

[soundmanshorty]

I just completed a new hifi pro system on the next level in europe in a space that came out amazing, Here is a list of gear in this amazing sound system.

Gear:

1 SBS S3X 3 way xover
1 Thrive Audio Bender 5 way Program EQ
1 Thrive Audio Bad Neighbor
1 Thrive Audio Isolator
1 Summit Audio DCL 200 Compresor
1 Urei 1620 mixer
2 SBS Modified Bryston 10B xovers
3 BSS 966 OPAL system eqs
4 AudioNote Vacuum Tube Dacs

1 SBS console
5 SBS SBH 2.18 with Extensions
8 SBS FLH 215 TAD 1603 Loaded
8 SBS FLH 112 TAD 1201 Loaded (Trapazoid)
8 SBS SMH 4002 (Trapizoid)
4 SBS STA LOADED WITH 16 JBL 2402 TWEETERS

1 Mark Levinson Amplifier NO. 335 Dual monaural Class A amplifier, Driving 8 TAD 4002, comp drivers
2 Krell FPB 400cx Class A Amplifier Driving 8 TAD 1201s Mids
4 Thrive Audio Maya amplifiers driving 16 TAD 1603s
2 Thrive Audio Alva Amplifiers on 16 JBL Tweeters
3 Crown MA 3600s on 5 SBS Bass horns W/Extensions

Booth system and additional product

Booth Processing:

1) SBS S3X 3 way Booth Xover
1) BSS EQ`S
1) Ashley XR Series xover (Booth fullrange Xover)

Booth Drivers:

2) TAD ET 703 Booth Tweeters
2) JBL 2450 Compresion Drivers
2) 8 In horn loaded Low Mid drivers
8) JBL 10 in Bass Drivers
4) JBL 2226 Drivers SUB BASS

Booth Amps:

1 Thrive Audio Alva, on TAD ET 703 Tweeters
1 Thrive Audio Syla, on Comp drivers
1 Thrive Audio Reya, on Low mids
1 Crown Macro Reference 1, on MidBass
1 Thrive Maya, on Booth Subbass

www.systemsbyshorty.com
www.myspace.com/soundmanshorty

[Maron Horonzakz]

So What????

[mikebake]

"Booth Drivers:

2) TAD ET 703 Booth Tweeters
2) JBL 2450 Compresion Drivers
2) 8 In horn loaded Low Mid drivers
8) JBL 10 in Bass Drivers
4) JBL 2226 Drivers SUB BASS"

In the DJ booth???

[soundmanshorty]

So What????

guys that are into high quality audio would think more of this then this reply.

Its very rare you see a client go to this extent to build a large system to utilize this kind of gear for music playbac

[SMKSoundPro]

Please post some pictures!!!!

[richluvsound]

guys that are into high quality audio would think more of this then this reply.

Its very rare you see a client go to this extent to build a large system to utilize this kind of gear for music playbac

Maybe in the states this kind of install is rare, not here though. Just look at some of these. Bridge and Tunnel ,London. Button factory, Dublin. Cream , Liverpool. Mint, Leeds. Then look at the super clubs in Ibiza, Spain. We wont even talk about Germany, Moscow, France, Italy, where do I Stop ? A club like Fabric here in London has 3 rooms for example.

There is a company called Opus from the UK . No big hype, all word of mouth. By far the best sound I have ever heard.


http://www.opusaudio.com/

Rich

[soundmanshorty]

TAD with mark levinson, Krell & Thrive Audio amps with Summit Audio Compression are done often in clubs in europe?? The clubs you mentioned are great venues, but from what i have been told they are all Digitally processed

The electronics in this system are in none of the clubs you mentioned above which alone, makes this unique,

House processing:

1 SBS S3X 3 way xover
1 Thrive Audio Bender 5 way Program EQ
1 Thrive Audio Bad Neighbor
1 Thrive Audio Isolator
1 Summit Audio DCL 200 Compresor
1 Urei 1620 mixer
2 SBS Modified Bryston 10B xovers
3 BSS 966 OPAL system eqs
4 AudioNote Vacuum Tube Dacs

SBS Cabinets
1 SBS console
5 SBS SBH 2.18 with Extensions
8 SBS FLH 215 TAD 1603 Loaded
8 SBS FLH 112 TAD 1201 Loaded (Trapazoid)
8 SBS SMH 4002 (Trapizoid)
4 SBS STA LOADED WITH 16 JBL 2402 TWEETERS

House Amplifiers:

1 Mark Levinson Amplifier NO. 335 Dual monaural Class A amplifier, Driving 8 TAD 4002, comp drivers
2 Krell FPB 400cx Class A Amplifier Driving 8 TAD 1201s Mids
4 Thrive Audio Maya amplifiers driving 16 TAD 1603s
2 Thrive Audio Alva Amplifiers on 16 JBL Tweeters
3 Crown MA 3600s on 5 SBS Bass horns W/Extensions

Booth Processing:

1) SBS S3X 3 way Booth Xover
1) BSS EQ`S
1) Ashley XR 4001 Series xover (Booth fullrange Xover)

Booth Drivers:

2) TAD ET 703 Booth Tweeters
2) JBL 2450 Compresion Drivers
2) 8 In horn loaded Low Mid drivers
8) JBL 10 in Bass Drivers
4) JBL 2226 Drivers SUB BASS

Booth Amps:

1 Thrive Audio Alva, on TAD ET 703 Tweeters
1 Thrive Audio Syla, on Comp drivers
1 Thrive Audio Reya, on Low mids
1 Crown Macro Reference 1, on MidBass
1 Thrive Maya, on Booth Subbass

[louped garouv]

The electronics in this system are in none of the clubs you mentioned above which alone, makes this unique, and they are all Digital not High End Analog processing like i have in this system.

What do they have in these systems, most of them are prob Class D amplifiers?

you would impress people here (and elsewhere) more if you posted system response charts IMHO...

no one here knows anything about the "Thrive Audio" electronics you are selling either,
have you had any independent analysis charts done on the pieces?

[soundmanshorty]

here in the nyc area from england where they had a demo room, i did a event @ a nightclub in NJ, opus was in 1 room, I had a 850 TAD loaded system in the larger room, from what i recall he told me opus does not believe in a room eq, is this still your theory?

[louped garouv]

i don't know about their philosophies but they do have specs available for all their custom, made in house, gear and cabinet offerings.....


http://www.opusaudio.com/pl.html


pretty neat to see that from a company that builds all their stuff custom...




There is a company called Opus from the UK . No big hype, all word of mouth.




that saying a lot IMHO

Kudos to them!

[soundmanshorty]

you would impress people here (and elsewhere) more if you posted system response charts IMHO...



you speak for everyone on every message board ? would this be correct?

[louped garouv]

i think i may have hit a nerve... sorry about that....


So i guess you speak for everyone on every message board ? would this be correct?

that's why i ended the thought with "IMHO"

which means: "in my honest opinion"

:)

people around here just seem to dig specs and response charts from what i've noticed... especially when someone with a high end custom fabrication & instalation business is posting...

members here are constantly being guided to obtain objective measurement tools from what i've seen posted here....

[soundmanshorty]

you would impress people here (and elsewhere) more if you posted system response charts IMHO...




hit a nerve but with comments like this you ARE speaking for everyone.

[louped garouv]

i really do not believe i am speaking for everyone...

hence the "IMHO" disclaimer added to the end...


i believe that clearly puts it into the realm of personal opinion/observation...

[richluvsound]

I think the lack of response from those with far more understanding than myself
says it all .

As far as digital is concerned - when your off head in a club at 1am the soundstage and, whether or not the signal is analog aint that high in the priority list.

BTW ,Bridge and Tunnel is all Bryston, clearaudio and function 1 Sweet as ,
but still not a scratch on the Opus rig.
Also, as with all sound - you waste a lot of time and money if you dont consider the room as important as the label.

I'm sure your rig is brilliant.

good luck, Rich

[speakerdave]

Well, it seems to me it must be a helluva system, and I certainly understand how having a chance to design and install it must be very satisfying, even exciting. I congratulate you on your success in that business, SoundmanShorty.

If you don't mind sharing a few more details, what are the 8 and 10 inch drivers used in the booth system?

Thanks,

David

[cooky1257]

Sure sounds like a fab huge Tonka toy of a hifi system to me!

The only thing I'd be concerned about is reliability of the more 'boutique' electronics under the arduous conditions some installs find themselves in and the 'instant' availability of drop in replacements expected by club owners.

It also seems a tad questionable to get sniffy of digital processing when in all probability they'll be feeding digital media through the system anyhow and the certainly questionable quality of even the best pro dj pick up cartridges...
Saying all that I bet it must sound like a giant hifi:D

[scott fitlin]

Sure sounds like a fab huge Tonka toy of a hifi system to me!

The only thing I'd be concerned about is reliability of the more 'boutique' electronics under the arduous conditions some installs find themselves in and the 'instant' availability of drop in replacements expected by club owners.

It also seems a tad questionable to get sniffy of digital processing when in all probability they'll be feeding digital media through the system anyhow and the certainly questionable quality of even the best pro dj pick up cartridges...
Saying all that I bet it must sound like a giant hifi:DI'll tell you MY experiences using DSP crossover/signal processing -vs- analog crossovers/signal processing playing downloaded DIGITAL MP3 and WAV files in MY place. Matter of fact, I have a BSS 366t I tried once again, 2 weeks ago, and.......

You can definitely hear a difference between DSP signal processing and analog processing playing digital files. DEFINITELY!

To my ears, after tweeking the BSS to get what I thought were good, and satisfactory results, it worked to one degree or another. It was clean, it was clear, but somewhat brighter sounding than the analog processing. Kind of like turning up the contrast control on your TV a bit too high, its clear, its veiwable, BUT, something just isn't quite 100% for me. And unlike the contrast control on your TV, I find this condition to not be able to be EQ,ed out, it just is what it is. However, this is with a slightly older, but still recent DSP processor that has what is considered good technology.

The depth of image, I dunno, analog still seems to have a deeper image and wider soundstage, and more spatial sounding than DSP. EVEN with todays digital files.

Vocals sound noticeably less natural using my DSP, than they do using analog processing. And the highs still have a somewhat artificial, synthetic, and rougher tonal quality through DSP processing vs analog.

The bass and warmth. Well, this clinched it for me. With my analog processing, oh, and BTW, I am using NEW Marchand and Bryston crossovers, made to my specifications, although I can duplicate the same things in the DSP processing, and actually do many more things in the digital domain, the sound completely lacked warmth with the DSP and I missed that warmth terribly. The bass with the DSP installed, it was clean, pretty clear, BUT no where near as large sounding as with my analog processors installed. It was just too squeaky clean, and thin sounding.

I have young men employed here, and most, if not all, don't know JACK SHIT about sound, the wide range of various technologies, and only know they like something or they don't, I didn't tell anyone I had made a slight change to the audio. Anyway, I installed the BSS one morning BEFORE any employees were yet in the building. Once we opened at noon, and began to play music, I heard it right away, BUT it was listenable. Two of my employees commented to me, about an hour after opening, that the music didn't sound the same, and asked if something was broken! I kid you not, that was what they asked. 2 hours later, another young man complained to me the music was bothering him. I went into the room, and the music was sterile sounding, with a fatiguing, irritating quality, and no matter what I did to tweak, I couldn't get the sound quite where I KNEW it could be. Then, 15 minutes later, even I was bothered by something I just can't quite put my finger on it, though. In the middle of everything, at the end of a ride, I turned all my amps off, went to the back of my rack, re-connected and switched back to analog in about 1.5 minutes. Turned amps back on, went back into operating podium, began playing music, one guy comes running over, HOLY SHIT what did you do, now its good again. And you know what? It was good again, not only to my ears but my entire staffs ears, and my customers ears. The staff was now smiling and bopping around the room, ENJOYING work, my customers had smiles on their faces instead of scowls, and I could hear the difference immediately. Now, I don't need the technically savvy crowd, and audio scholars to know IF I hear something, and I can read peoples expressions and tell if they like something, or not. The day we started off with DSP, customers seemed lifeless, compared to the screaming, and and general VIBRANT and HAPPY feeling at The Eldorado. The music sounded anemic and cold, to my ears, it seemed annoying. The customers and employess seemed to have the samne reaction as myself, only they didn't know why, or that it even had anything to do with music and audio.

Once back to analog processing, the music sounded full, very clear, great dynamics, more natural sounding midband, and a certain warmth I have never been able to achieve in the DSP domain.

And believe it or not, you would be surprised at how many very good sounding digital recordings there are, and how much you really can hear the difference between various types of signal processing, playing digital music.

Now, if one were using the latest, state of the art, DSP technologies available, like the Dolby Lake Pro, the technology has advanced from what it was just 2 and 3 short years ago. And I recently heard a system using the newest generation Dolby lake pro, and for whatever reason, I simply wasn't blown away by the sound. I don't really know if it was the Lake I didn't care for, the speakers, the amps, the setup and tuning of that particular system! What I DO know for sure, is when I got back here, and was operating, my system just made me feel satisfied, and it's enjoyable, with a compelling quality that keeps drawing me back into the music, instead of making me want to leave.

I enjoy playing digital recordings, and some are much better than you might think, they are NOT all crappy, terrible sounding recordings.

But, still, at this point in time, analog signal processing still reigns supreme in my book.

And I will also say, with complete conviction, that for me, DSP will be proper, and sonically indiscernable from analog processing when I say ITS proper, and sonically undetectable between the two, for me! And that time comes when my ears tell me it has arrived, NOT when the industry, salespeople, or "Keeping up With The Jones" crowd says it has!

However, contact me and come down to Eldorado for as visit, I'll let your ears decide for you, too. I can switch from one to another in no time, and on a relatively empty and non hectic early weekday afternoon, I would be more than happy to let someone come to their own conclusions on this subject.

BTW, I happen to have high quality products and gear in use, we can switch between BSS DSP, and Bryston 10B Discrete Analog processing. And, I consider myself to be somewhat knowledgeable about audio, the associated gear, and correct setup and use of various types of components, and what sounds good and what doesn't. of course, I do not consider myself the last word on the subject, just an educated end user.

[Rudy Kleimann]

That's about the best, well-grounded commentary I have read in a long time!

Kudos to you Scotty. What you say is so true.

I'll never forget the day my eyes, or rather, ears, were opened to this fact. It was 1992, and I met my neighbor, a 71 yr. old retired Audio and Computer Electronics Engineer, for the first time. He invited me in, and there it was: a veritable Audio and Video Mecca!

He pulled out a Direct-to-disc recording of a Jazz Trio with Smith, I think (of Bellson, Brown, Smith) on drums. He placed it on his Luxman Vacuum-platter turnatble, lowered the tonearm so the Benz-Micro glider cartridge could get in the groove, and his custom Dynaudio Subs and Stax Electrostats started to sing. I was completely dumbfounded! Soundstage depth, width, even height, like I'd never experienced. Pinpoint imaging way past the sides, Drums that were stacked realistically with kick at the floor, toms at eye level, and cymbals overhead, all in perfect 3-D.

20 minutes later, the record side was finished, and he got up to tend to the turntable. Next, he says, "now let's listen to that in digital". He rewound his professional R-DAT and pressed play. It was like taking a first-hand view of life and smashing it onto a thin line stretched between the speakers, with an inage quality akin to an AP wirephoto on the morning newspaper. I couldn't believe it. I thought I knew what good audio was up until then, but I had just been schooled!

That experience changed everything for me. A couple years later, I had built up a pretty decent system from used high-end gear scrounged up, and bought myself a Proceed (pre-Harman) CD Player. Good, very good, on the right source recordings, but still couldn't match Sampson's analog rig. Sometime later, he had ended up with a Muse DAC and fed it with various source CD players. His and mine were neck-and-neck, one marginally beating out the other depending on the program material and quality of the recording.

Sampson always moved with the state of the art, within the limits of his budget, replacing gear every two-three years. We learned a lot together by experience, including SACD and the various DVD-audio formats. Digital got progressively better, but it sure can "adulterate" a good recording if not done just right, and DSP can kill it in a hurry.

Sampson passed away 6 weeks ago, 10 days before his 88th birthday. I am sure he is in Heaven, and I'll bet he has a killer rig up there to enjoy music on in his place. Before he died, I was bequeathed that lovely Luxman turntable and a handful of vinyl that I was allowed to pick from his collection, including that fantastic record that changed my audio life..