frankensteins monitors [Archive] - Lansing Heritage Forums

demon

06-01-2008, 02:43 AM

hey there lansingfreaks!

i recently found out that i am willing to waste a lot of money with old studio monitors (click (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=20782)), a lot more than i expected, so i decided to take the money and walk the hard way.
i got these (mint and boxed) drivers:
-2404
-238oA + 245o
-22o6

a behringer DCX and 2 wooferboxes.
looks a lot like this:
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/e1e7b68f.jpg
(since im totally devoted to jbl, i decided to live on the floor like they do in jbl~japan)

the test-setup:
12'' plays up to 859 Hz and lives yet in closedbox, but this will change soon (i got them boxes by accident but they are nearly perfect) since im going to bassreflex the thing. a little eq gain at bottom-bottom helps me over empty feelings.

the horn goes all the way up from 859Hz to 2ooooHz, and i have tried to eq it a bit but without measurming, wich will be done next week (since i got no equipment myself).

the tweeters are still waiting to be used since im not finished building a fail-safe in case of a bad amp or so. i want them protected.

ok, what else...
the horndriver is beeing moved to the front so it is in line with the 12'', the horn is now standing out, but:
since i love the looks of altec VOTT and naked horns, i will keep the horn visible on top and if this works with the phase correction and the refraction of the higher signals from the 12'' on the back of the horn isnt to bad i will keep it standing out.
saying that, im still in pre-alpha-testing phase.
:blink:
and talking about design, originally i wanted to paint the full body monitor-blue. but since it is a little different from the one i planned (this one i got per accident) ii would be better maybe to get some decent veneer.
i will see.

ok.
hope youre informed now!

cheers,
mikey

ps: oh wait!
i forgot about how they sound:
not to good, but not to bad either. im actually surprised that i can already enjoy the sound without having measured them.
imaging is great and the resolution is good, too.

demon

06-02-2008, 05:36 AM

ok i activated the tweeters, rather good idea!!

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/c7ffab08.jpg

its like a big party in my head, and everbody rofls.
:barf:
oh my.
no its ok, yctually better than ok, see, im smiling quite a bit writing this, listening to* my new system.

XO information:
12'' = 28-787
horn = 787-7,32k
tweeter = 7,32k

*
"rogues gallery"
~pirate ballads, sea songs + chanteys~
==> excellent!!

cheers,
mikey

pos

06-02-2008, 05:50 AM

looks good! :applaud:
how do they compare to the 4410 ?

demon

06-02-2008, 06:26 AM

the 441oA are very very good speakers imho. they still rule...
finding the right setup is kinda hard, and im missing the bassreflex very much.
also i want the room acoustics measured and then sweap a lot and measure that and then i will try to get them speakers as linear as possible.

but to answer your query:
the new ones are finer resolutive and do image a little better (already!). i blame the horn.
the kickbass is harder kicking (of course) and high bass is more potent.

the 441oA are way more in accord with themselfs, but i can do it.

=this new monitors have to rock, and i will work hard on them.
oh yeah, i forgot to tell you the name of my system (frankensteins monitors it is not), it is called:

" M A C H I N E "

:o:
cheers,
mikey

pos

06-02-2008, 06:36 AM

So welcome to the M A C H I N E ! ;)

the 441oA are way more in accord with themselfs, but i can do it.
In my DIY I find it to be the hardest part. Sometime the speaker will sound good, and another day, on the very same song, it seems to sound like crap, depending on the mood. The "real" ingeneered speakers (in my case it was a 4412) always sound the same, and on all songs.

How are you going to integrate the offset of the horn in a cabinet?

demon

06-02-2008, 06:56 AM

How are you going to integrate the offset of the horn in a cabinet?if there arent to many problems with reflections behind the horn it will be kept outstandingly outstanding.
(because i love how this looks)
if i decide to make one big baffle i can use the DELAYs in my (DCX) digital crossover -this little wizard!
this moment i just EQed the horn and woofer according to the diagrams on the spec-sheet and it took me only a few minutes. amazing!!!

but anyway my ears hurt.
i will go take a walk in the park now.
cheers!
(im happy someone shows interest :) )

mikey

Zilch

06-02-2008, 11:13 AM

(im happy someone shows interest :) )

mikeyWe are all interested, of course; just watching you work your way through this. :thmbsup:

Consider acquiring some measurement capability.... :yes:

Robh3606

06-02-2008, 12:35 PM

We are all hear. Get a sub going to fill in the bottom a bit and that system will floor you. You look like you are close, be careful in the death zone it may be a bit louder than you think if you have kind neighbors.

Have Fun

Rob:)

demon

06-02-2008, 12:49 PM

im even more happy now!

ok, news:
i didnt take a walk in the park at all.
i stayed home and "worked" on my system, wich means i sat in front of it and listened to some overproduced pop-albums wich make my system sound good (make every system sound good).
i changed the XO between the 12'' and the horn, its 937Hz now.

interestingly, i cannot hear much differnces if the XO is changed a step of 1ooHz, though i use very narrow filters (48dB).
thinking that a quick change in the XO would be easy to hear im rather surprised -using only musical input, no testsignals.
testsignals i dont use yet, as well as the meas....youre right, i should get me some equipment, that would really pay off in the long run (techtoys always pay off).

pre-review:

the speakers are so much fun right now!!
im listening to michael jacksons "bad" this moment, wich i always like to use to check out different systems. got lots a dynamics and detail, and i really like the very hard funk it got.

ok:
the snares and similar effects KICK ASS, as well as the kickbass kicks kickass. very cool!! subbass performance is not to bad considering that i cut the 12'' at 28Hz and there is no bassreflex yet. hey, maybe i dont need one and get me a decent sub instead? im thinking of something nearfield-dipol...
wait, im blank. no sub in the near future.
the mids are very detailed, i didnt expect this. and are directly programmed into my brain, must be the nearfield+horn effect.
tweeting, supertweeting and beyond thunderdome is ok, i damped the top/back of the horn a bit to reduce reflections (wich i actually dont mind much yet), and turned the tweetervolume up a bit. i like a (hard) brilliant sound somehow, and the tweeter is THE tweeter you all know that.

imaging is great, as written earlier, but not as amazning as i could imagine imaging could be -->phase correction is the next topic.

in the near future, roomacoustics have to change too.

:blah:

see you!
mikey

demon

06-15-2008, 02:23 AM

hey!

im back.
last sunday we measured and equalized the system.
i didnt save the diagrams, but it was a totally flat line!
(with some minor ups, downs, peaks, and pikes)
:o:
sounds all good to me, i listened a lot of music this week and didnt touch any dials, i didnt want to jeopardize anything and wanted to tune myself to the speakers.

using only my ears to fit the system, i didnt work out, as i can clearly hear now. before measuring, i widely piled the sound up around 1,5 kHz, like i was getting the most soundinformation like that (yamaha ns1o).

-dont trust your ears-

cheers, mikey

demon

06-15-2008, 04:35 AM

since richard, the good lad, borrowed me his microphone i tried some sweeps right now.
i dont know how to do this properly, i just tried my best.

(there is alwas one curve from the sweep (red) and one from the pinknoise: )
1. both left+right speakers togehter measured mono in sweetspot
2. left speaker alone in one meter distance
3. right (same)
4. layered curves 2 and 3

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/e97c04d0.jpg

cheers
mikey

demon

08-22-2008, 03:32 AM

ok!!

got ports installed, tuned to 5oHz. still need a sub, cant deny my craving...
i quickly measured them yesterday during the lunchbreak and they look shockingly like this:
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/Xquicky-LRweb.jpg = left and right speaker overlayed.
the microphone is about 16o cm in front of the horn, that is listening position.
i gotta check the tweeters!
man...

oh yeah, pictures (still a pu-ro-to-tai-pu):
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/hoerplatzcollage-web-kl.jpg
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/P1070940web.jpg

cheers,
mikey

demon

08-28-2008, 12:27 PM

i had an old kenwood for the bass-part, ive sold it so now theres an even older amp to work the lower frequencies -pioneer sx 2500 (a receiver).

its stacked upon the sansui 9090 and looks nice. of course, the both look nice!
measured quickley again and settled the differences to the kenwood (ka 8150), sounds ok (it has to).

-so, watching the blue lights, listening to cheesy fleetwood mac from the 8oies:

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/P1070987-FXweb.jpg
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/P1070993-web-stack.jpg

having a romantic evening why not?

mikey

ps: dont panic the are both cooled by a vent across the floor.

demon

11-05-2008, 01:36 PM

bad news:
good ol' M A C H I N E has been dismantled.

good news:
got new parts for good ol' revised M A C H I N E !!

first i got a pair of 2123 midfreqdrivers, just as decent as the other drivers i have (bought from the same guy, belonged to the same spare-system), yesterday i ordered 48oo WATTS, the other day i bough a second DCX (why must it be so cheap, it ruins me) and to top it all off i finally found a pair of freakin' 236o ---YES!!!
i will catch them in a few weeks. the 236oies are a very rare item in europe, as i see it. even if i dont use them, i will place them in my apartment because of their very neat industrial looks. oh, looks like i finally became fond of these special horncraziness...
:biting:

and then again...and thats rather hard to say...

i got problems below.
yes.

:o:

nothing moves below 5oHz.

ok, what to do?
im open for suggestions, really:

-subbass could be a tapped horn, tuned to 3oHz, 25Hz maybe. i heard a big one (2oHz) lately -and was deeply moved.
-subbass could be some dipole in close nearfield (best behind the listening position), maybe 2x2 15" (i could get some older rcf15", type unknown yet). never heard anything like that, but heard lots about it lately. personally, an idea that i really like (and probably my neighbours too). it would have to reach at least down to 3oHz, problematic.
-subbass: with this four yet unknown 15" i could build 4 smallish vented-box-subs to place in every corner of the room, hide them (with the DCX i can programm proper delays).

furthermore:
why not change the whole appearance? the cabinets i currently have are only prototypes.

-would it be a good idea to try my midrange and midbass in an open baffle.
going with the dipole sub it tickles me very much.

-or maybe put the 2206 into a compression-horn??
-can the 1o" midrange be put in such a compression-horn? -because ive never seen it.
= both ideas are kinda favorites, but i dont have much knowledge about those things...and i cant try much out myself, because im living in a little flat in the midst of the city, no garage to work in.

ok, thats seems to be a lot of questions, but i dont need answers. dont be scared.
but if you have anything to say about it, please share youre thoughts!!

thanks a bunch,
mikey

pos

11-05-2008, 04:33 PM

2360 :eek: :eek: :eek:

here a some horns for JBL 10":
http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=120327887248

these are monacor MRH 4660, 75°x30°
http://i15.ebayimg.com/02/i/001/18/fd/3abb_1.JPG

http://fr.audiofanzine.com/img/produits/audiofanet/normal/1/2/124478.jpg

JBL 4645

11-05-2008, 07:52 PM

demon

Oh, very nice.:applaud: I like the JBL 2380A cinema HF horns that are used in smaller cinemas very nice. I was looking at the image and thinking they look like 12” bass mid drivers and I was right as I was reading down on the first page.

I like that you’ve chosen the DCX2496 its smart little loudspeaker management crossover system, that is versatile and flexible to use once you’ve had many hands on hours with it.

vernb

11-06-2008, 01:49 AM

good news:
and to top it all off i finally found a pair of freakin' 236o ---YES!!!
i will catch them in a few weeks. the 236oies are a very rare item in europe, as i see it. even if i dont use them, i will place them in my apartment because of their very neat industrial looks. oh, looks like i finally became fond of these special horncraziness...
:biting:

thanks a bunch,
mikey

Hi Mikey
Wauw, where did you get 2360 horns? They are nearly impossible to find (cheap) in Europe. I ended up buying 2350 horns instead because I couldn´t find 2360. A friend of mine has 1 single 2360 and 1 single 2366 horn. We have tried long to fin a match for both of them, without luck.
It is simply too expensive to buy them in the US and pay for shipping and 100% import tax.
Good luck, can't wait to see pictures
Vern

demon

11-06-2008, 02:46 AM

hey!

well, im really glad i found the mighty, and let me say this: very sexy, 236o, and for a reasonable price. not really cheap, but its okay. it will be a nice journey to berlin soon, and im very much looking forward to it.
and yes, i cant wait to see pictures too!
in the mean time, lets take a look at this little gem:
http://www2.jblpro.com/BackOffice/ProductPictures/80ec668a-390a-4425-b6a4-db7a51816fa2.jpg

:applaud:

though the 238oA are very good and do exactly what i want em to do, i couldnt resist the craving. every man dreams about REALLY big butts sometimes, not?

-----------------------------------
the DCX is a really nice tool. trying out different settings is so easy with it.
when my system is done i will work to get the signals all digital, from the cd/computer right into the DCX. so that there is only one digital/analog step in the chain, and not like it is now, 3.
problem is to get the volume control after the DCX = expensive.

:biting: bullets :biting:

-----------------------------------

interesting horn for the 1o", thanks pos.
but what i really dont know is if the 2123 is made for such action. can it handle it?
in the end, i could imagine building something beautiful like that:
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=35052&stc=1&d=1225749318
(courtesy of user OLDGEN (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=226851#post226851))
for the 1o" and the 12", it dont look like needing more space than a closed/ported box at all. IF the 2123 will work well in such a horn.
can somebody telll me?

then again, i should really start worrying about the subbass.

yours worried,
mikey

JBL 4645

11-06-2008, 09:07 AM

http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/1/147249.jpg
demon

The JBL 4647-A is also on my wish list of must buys three of course, someday maybe someday?? :applaud:

How have you solved the hiss issue on channel 6 on the DCX2496 when used as LCR?

Inputs
1 left
2 centre
3 right

Left channel 1 LF
Left channel 2 HF
Centre channel 3 LF
Centre channel 4 HF
Right channel 5 LF
Right channel 6 HF this one tends to hiss the most when the level output-level is increased!

The hiss issue seems to be around (4 to 9KHz)?

Those Horn loaded enclosures look mean and those HF horns wow I bet they dispraise sound out on wide angle with narrow vertical no?

pos

11-11-2008, 01:09 PM

2360a on german ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.de/JBL-Horn-2360-A-plus-adapter_W0QQitemZ230306996974QQihZ013QQcategoryZ21 997QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

demon

11-11-2008, 01:18 PM

JBL 4645

11-11-2008, 01:19 PM

2360a on german ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.de/JBL-Horn-2360-A-plus-adapter_W0QQitemZ230306996974QQihZ013QQcategoryZ21 997QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I can’t read German is that 1 JBL 2360A or 2 or several of those huge horn HF? Wow seems like a good deal.

Those HF horns sound awesome in the cinema! I‘ve heard them in at least 6 different types of cinema auditoriums three of which were THX.

I’d snap them up hope the compression driver is in good nick.

pos

11-11-2008, 01:57 PM

Come on Demon, you know you want a center channel!!

what du you personally think of the 2360ies?
did you ever hear them?
nope, never heard them :(

JBL 4645

11-11-2008, 02:12 PM

Come on Demon, you know you want a center channel!!

nope, never heard them :(

Matching set of loudspeakers communally called LCR for most cinemas and homes and some cinemas even use L Lex C Rex R five matching JBL 26360A horns or 4675-A never mismatch the fronts it is the art form of sound for cinema and the home as well.:)

Five screen JBL sound power looks like this at the famous Empire Leicester Square London. JBL at its best 56KW peak!:applaud:

http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/47069/288071.jpg

JBL 4645

11-11-2008, 02:32 PM

impossible..!

but wait, it looks like to be just a single horn. who would need that?
verner?

anyway, thanks for thinking about me pos.
i have found my horns already and will be tripping soon (looking soooo much forward) to take them to my warm and comfy home.
what du you personally think of the 2360ies?
did you ever hear them?

cheers,
mikey

edit:

i never noticed that, and i never read the manual. do you mean that this is just normal with a DCX, or do you have a defect in yours?
anyway i will try to check that when i rebuild my rig.

I had whale of time, bang my head against the wall :banghead: with it the first time! I forget to un-mate the output channels that were all marked in RED!

I had to enter a setting on the unit to enable to run in the LCR LF HF configuration I even lost the settings a few times and had to start all over again. Now that I’ve had more than years hands on and some even longer its not a bad (loudspeaker crossover management system) for the price!

If you look around on Google product search in your region of the world you’ll find a supplier that will be doing the DCX2496 far less from the first place you brought it from.

I could have saved nearly £30.00 pounds if I knew about Google product search early of last year.

Once set-up for LCR LF HF or if you like to tri-amp the loudspeakers LF MF HF then you’ll need another DCX2496 because with tri-amp you can only run two inputs and three-outputs from the DCX2496.

Or run it in four-way or I think its possible to run in 6-way but that’s really starting to get silly and the cost would soon sky rocket though the roof! Even with simple stereo because you’ll need separate stereo amplifiers and the bulk of it all would have to be kept in another room because of clutter and all those amps will have a low mild transform humming sound coming from the rank, in quiet room.

But if sonic fidelity 6-way is your thing just remember to notify the national power grid when you turn it all on!:D

demon

11-11-2008, 02:37 PM

demon

11-11-2008, 02:48 PM

JBL 4645

11-11-2008, 02:50 PM

i got no space left for a center :no:

im looking forward to try the big cheeks out. i hope they will go very low, i always wanted to have a full-bandwidth horn, or coax-system.
putting the tweeter inside the hornmouth somewhere, im coming close at least.
(ok, there are great koax-drivers ive already auditioned)
the 12" midbass will work alright, but im still worrying about my subwoofers. the dipole prototype will show wich direction to go.
oh and did i mention i got a nice pair of 2123? yes? dont think i will use them if the big cheeks will keep their erotic in the lower regions.

cheers, and stay tuned (i know i will!),
mikey

Rubbish you’re just stubborn my room is far smaller than yours and I’ve got enough room if I had the money and yes I’d stuff three cinema PA cabs and horns up front but I don’t have the money for such an exotic JBL true cinema LCR.

That’s why I’m using what I have and I have five JBL control 5 up front that is 7 feet 11” across and that is tiny.

Worried, worried I’m astonished that you’ve mentioned that.

Get a few more DCX2496 that is what they were designed for to eliminate worries and stress that is why its called a (loudspeaker crossover management system) to mange the sound output it has audio limiters to protect sudden outputs of dynamic range from busting in the loudspeakers and prolong its usage over the years. :)

JBL 4645

11-11-2008, 03:05 PM

i have two DCX and im not scared of going the PENTA-AMPED way.
at least, to try things out --and if i have to correct the subwoofer (may will be four in the room on different locations) department alot in case of groupdelays and frequency, i think i will at least tetra-amp the rig.

in the end, if everything works fine, i can imagine building a quality crossover for some parts of the system to get down to a fine tri- or bi-amped setup.

for trying out things, im all set with my gear and am not afraid to use it.
oh yeah, i will use one DCX for the left (2)(thats number "2") channel, and the other one for the other one, the other one beeing (1), right (1), right?

cheers,
mikey

Try the phase and make sure polarity is wired correctly at the speaker outputs to inputs once that is cheeked out okay, you can change the settings at the push of few buttons without touching the wiring.

The subs should be placed as close as possible next to each other unless its (stereo sub bass) that your experimenting with?

Caution

Remember to use ear-plugs don’t be hero the output is fucking LOUD! Use the dial on the DCX2496 to attenuate, reduce or increase the level and watch that the outputs on the amplifiers isn’t too high because you can damage the loudspeakers if mishandled.

demon

11-11-2008, 03:13 PM

stereophonic, of course!
:applaud:

JBL 4645

11-11-2008, 03:22 PM

stereophonic, of course!
:applaud:

Well I see no reason for concern unless you missed a few paragraphs in the user’s manual? It’s not well written I had to read it over a few times and I often give it a re-read its my holy bible so to speak, don’t leave home without.:D

If you got really stuck Behringer has an online replay where you can quiz them on an issue that your having with it, and you’ll get a response within 48 hours.

Behringer DCX2496 look for support its middle of the page at the top marked in black bold letters!
http://www.behringer.co.uk/DCX2496/index.cfm?lang=ENG (http://www.behringer.co.uk/DCX2496/index.cfm?lang=ENG)

mini

11-12-2008, 12:01 AM

hey!

well, im really glad i found the mighty, and let me say this: very sexy, 236o, and for a reasonable price. not really cheap, but its okay. it will be a nice journey to berlin soon, and im very much looking forward to it.
and yes, i cant wait to see pictures too! ... worried,
mikey

Hello mikey,

I've got the 2360 - without the A. The latter is a second version in a single piece instead of two that is mouth & throat.

It was hard to transport even the older version. Be aware of these being very big and quite unhandy even for a station waggon. They are heavy too.

The beasts do not offer a F_cutoff that is proportional to size compared to e/g 2380 or EVs HP940. Cut off is still the common 500Hz, maybe 400Hz. The major benefit would be +6dB in efficiency between 500Hz and 1kHz compared to smaller waveguides. That's the deal for pros - a quater of amping needed for the same level. Further more directivity is maintained vertically from 500Hz on. That's for pros again. You don't need it at home. Early reflections come into account as low as 200Hz with constructive interference as to say "bumps". These will - as You already might have detected Yourself - easily lead to colouration of female voices and/or loss of articulation. To prevent from that use double bass/mid a la D'Appolito around a smaller horn.

On the other hand, You can't show more phoney than with these that You are eager for zound. Somebody near Ulm/Germany recently had to sell at least two complete sets 2x2226/2360/2445. As far as I know he didn't succeed with his offer around 500 bucks/pc. Have a look @ german electrobay (it's not me).

Have fun!

demon

11-12-2008, 08:54 AM

thanks for the input mini!
im buying them anyway, just for the hell of it. i got a nice price, and if they will not join the setup in the end they will go to someone else to try them out (if treated well).
if i didnt mention it already, im not building a "smart" rig here. im merely playing with beautiful toys and have a good time doing it.
2" comp. driving isnt necesarry in a small flat-room like mine, and it isnt even very clever.
anyway it feels good doing it.
so..!

but what worries me quite a bit now, is what you said about the size of the car:
i plan to drive a vw golf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Golf) and lay down the backseats, leaving only the front seats.
coming in two pieces, the horn will fit in, will it?
i dont wont to leave without the horns..!:shock:

about ebay:
ive been searching for months now, but i didnt find a single 236o (worldwide). interesting, i dont even find the auction that pos linked yesterday when im doing a search for it on my own. ebay is just playing tricks on me.
so -i didnt find the seller you mentioned either.

(but no problem, because i got my horns already waiting) (strike!) (hope the car is big enough) (scared!)

cheers,
mikey

demon

11-12-2008, 09:29 AM

i know how big the horns are, but im not sure about the real size of the car -it will be rented just for the gig.
i think that not the lenght, but the height could be the problem. sheeeeeoot!!

question:
does anyone know for sure that the horns will fit into to golf?
anyone, by any chance, ever acually tried it?

cheers, and "jesus!"
mikey

pos

11-12-2008, 10:22 AM

about ebay:
ive been searching for months now, but i didnt find a single 236o (worldwide). interesting, i dont even find the auction that pos linked yesterday when im doing a search for it on my own. ebay is just playing tricks on me.
so -i didnt find the seller you mentioned either.You have to search specifically on ebay.de. If the seller does not specify that he wants to ship in your country you will not be able to find it with ebay.at

demon

11-12-2008, 11:17 AM

ok i understand. and voilà! ive found the horn.
thanks!

i changed the car into a station wagon now.
the car rent is kinda crazy, i suggested the lady on the phone to switch to a peugeot 4o8, she mumbled, and in my mail i see its only the 3o8.
call again, now they are closed.
sigh.
is this getting complicated?
tomorrow i will get me a big car.
with big wheels. huge motor, golden rims, trailer, cupholders, you name it.

cheers,
mikey

mini

11-12-2008, 01:07 PM

i changed the car into a station wagon now.

Hi,

I picked up two of 2360s (no A) with an OPEL Astra 2 doors "fastback". But it didn't fit to easy. If Yours are the newer with "A"-suffix it would be hard - I don't know. Wouldn't it be useful to try it with a rough model first?

Good luck

mini

11-18-2008, 07:44 AM

Hi,

I picked up two of 2360s (no A) with an OPEL Astra 2 doors "fastback". But it didn't fit to easy. If Yours are the newer with "A"-suffix it would be hard - I don't know. Wouldn't it be useful to try it with a rough model first?

Good luck

Sorry,

I mixed it all up. The "A" is with separable throat/bell assembly. As anybody - excluding me - may learn from the specs @ jblpro. To bad.

Sorry

demon

11-18-2008, 01:27 PM

thanks mini.
as far as im informed, i get the two-piece-variants.
the little station wagon has to do it. it will do it (may my co-driver take the train).
--------------------------------
yesterday i set up the machine again, little different then before: parts all the same (2405-2380/2450-2206) but the horn a little lower to the ear (top edge is on ear-height) and the tweeter as close as possible to it, heightwise. distances are the same as they've been before (time alligned).

*sigh*

i missed you, little beast. little itsy-bitsy-machine-beast.
hard (ass-) kicking, tender (ear-) licking.
that said, mentally im all set up for the big horns now.
may they come!

and the subs, too, the big experiment.

cheers,
mikey

demon

11-23-2008, 11:03 AM

hey im back.
got the horns!
have issues though...i will open a thread later.
------------
my god they are HUUUUUUGE.
huge butts, i mean :applaud:

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/P1080263w.jpg
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/P1080265w2.jpg
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/P1080317w.jpg

driving was hell though. lotsa lotsa snow and slippery...im really finished now.

cheers,
mikey

hjames

11-23-2008, 11:54 AM

They are MASSIVE - Yooooouge!!!

So - have you gotten a kitten yet?
Looks like they could actually LIVE in those huge things!

and they fit in your CAR??

hey im back.
got the horns!
have issuses though...i will open a thread later.
------------
my god the are HUUUUUUGE.
huge butts, i mean :applaud:

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/P1080317w.jpg

driving was hell though. lotsa lotsa snow and slippery...
I'm really finished now.

cheers,
mikey

demon

11-23-2008, 12:33 PM

no kitty...not even a kiddy.
i had rats when i was younger, sometimes im still dreaming of them -astonishing creatures. so smart and agile. but no pets anymore, my household is to small for even me now. and the time...
:(

and they fit in your CAR??actually, it was no problem at all. i rented this:
http://www.speedheads.de/artikelbilder/2008/Peugeot308SW3.jpg
and i didnt even had to lay down the backseats.
the car is nice -the rooftop is all made of glass!
(unfortunatly it was covered with snow all the way)

im looking forward to try out the horns. hope i can use them down 5ooHz. tomorrow i will try to find the time.

mikey

toddalin

11-23-2008, 12:51 PM

They are MASSIVE - Yooooouge!!!

So - have you gotten a kitten yet?
Looks like they could actually LIVE in those huge things!

and they fit in your CAR??

A better reference for their size. This pair, complete with 2445Js, went to a LH member in Las Vegas and he took them in back of a pickup. Linda really liked them and was even willing to live with them sitting on the floor as shown in the picture. (Her idea, not mine!)

http://www.largescaleonline.com/eimages/lsolpics/Team_Member_Pics/toddalin/index_001.jpg

demon

11-23-2008, 01:02 PM

http://www.largescaleonline.com/eimages/lsolpics/Team_Member_Pics/toddalin/index_001.jpg
i remember this picture. you said (wrote) something like "they fill out the room rather nicely" --seeing and reading that all my body hairs stood up. and i thougt: "i DO need these horns!!!"

and that was it.
so.....thanks?!

cheers,
mikey

demon

11-26-2008, 01:06 PM

ok, so i connected these new horns i got recently, dont know if i told you...

:applaud:

just look!!!

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/hoerplatzBIGBLACK999.jpg

the picture is loosely called "the horn of darkness of the prince of darkness in the darkness of the room of the prince of darkness, the horn of darkness"

i didnt set anything yet, like groupdelay or even EQ, i just took the driver from the old horn and hooked it to the new one. and it sounds so good.
IT SOUNDS SO GOOD!

this is a neat forum, i dont dare to use bad language here, but SH!!!!!!!!T is this horn amazing!!!
:banana:
what does it do? why does it do it?? i didnt expect a change like this in the sound! my, its everywhere! the sound is all around, and so clear, and so crisp.
nearly like a bose system!
oh wait, no, forget the bose one. looks like im a bit JAZZED.
better lay off these horns.
get a decent bose...

:dancin:

sorry for beeing stupid.
but im totally floored, you know?

am!

a!

zing!

yours, :blink: mikey

hjames

11-26-2008, 01:33 PM

ok, so i connected these new horns i got recently, dont know if i told you...

i didnt set anything yet, like groupdelay or even EQ, i just took the driver from the old horn and hooked it to the new one. and it sounds so good.
IT SOUNDS SO GOOD!

this is a neat forum, i dont dare to use bad language here, but SH!!!!!!!!T is this horn amazing!!!

yours, :blink: mikey

Okay Mikey - sounds cool, but - you gotta do an A-B picture, one in light, then leave the camera in the same place and take the same picture in the DARK!

We can't hear your system so we need to see the light and the DARK!

demon

11-26-2008, 02:26 PM

heather :)

i will try to get some daylight in.
unfortunatly, this is the time of the year with the shortest of shortest days, only nights and stuff. and then even the nights are mostly cloudy...
but i promise you the most wonderful pictures as soon as i have proper lighting (maybe lightning?).

and in the meantime i throw a party for all the readers of our beloved forum:
:dj-party::banana: :die::duck:...
:dancin: _ :slink::band:
. . .
:smsex: _ :barf:

cheers,
mikey

UreiCollector

11-26-2008, 06:05 PM

Hey, major kudos on building your own cab's, and experimenting! Have fun!

mini

11-28-2008, 01:48 PM

i didnt set anything yet, like groupdelay or even EQ, i just took the driver from the old horn and hooked it to the new one. and it sounds so good.
IT SOUNDS SO GOOD!

It's very easy to equalize them. Then they sound even better! Most of it could be due to the smoother directivity. The "optimized aperture"-devices need some care so far. I moved recently, left the old woofer cabinets behind and have to reinstall that bat again. We'll celebrate the new house soon ...

so long

edit: picture deleted, it could bother some people for the uglyness of my house - I appologize

demon

11-29-2008, 07:25 AM

hey heather!
its all foggy and grey, anyway, horn today:
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/P1080403w.jpg
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/P1080406w.jpg
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/P1080413w.jpg

cheers,
mikey

4313B

11-29-2008, 07:48 AM

And some people have problems with the way the Array Series looks? :blink:

demon

11-29-2008, 07:55 AM

im not "some people"
:yes:
...and i kinda like the look of the ol' arrays...very much!
cheers!

mini

11-29-2008, 09:35 AM

im not "some people"
:yes:
...and i kinda like the look of the ol' arrays...very much!
cheers!

Don't let anybody bring you down. These dinos do a terrific job. To integrate them within a condo may become a challenge, though. Just for me being a usefull part of mankind, You may consider to place the super tweeter well within the belly of Your new pet. As some fiddling with this

=> http://www.randteam.de/AxiDriver/Index.html

shows it won't harm the directivity in any respect. AxiDriver can be used as a demo (courtesy of famous Joerg Panzer, inventor of the Acoustic Abacus).

Useful tool, if You like to estimate whether some alteration to Your very stereo system would be of minor or major concern. It will provide You with a new feeling for rational proportions :D

Auf Wiederhoeren

demon

11-29-2008, 09:47 AM

thanks a bunch!!

bis gleich

duaneage

12-05-2008, 11:03 PM

what does it do? why does it do it?? i didnt expect a change like this in the sound! my, its everywhere! the sound is all around, and so clear, and so crisp.

Horns offer the ultimate in driver loading. The driver is coupled to the air effectively. The throat allows the sound wave to expand at a controlled rate that is shaped by the opening.

Too bad they have to be so big. Large horn speakers for bass can be awe inspiring as well, but since Klipsch is somewhat of a bad word around here we won't get into that.

As a former Klipsch owner I can attest to the power of the horn. I just worked on a project with BigYank (http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=21347) using the 2246H/2380A combination and it startles you how efficient and clear they are.

vernb

12-06-2008, 04:25 AM

Hi Mikey
Saw your setup, looks great. But remember that the 2445 on 2360a roll off steep in the HF when you move up or down vertically only.
That means if you have them in ear height (horisontally with your head) there really isn't much of a roll of, and you don't need to eq them as much. According to JBL measurements that is. So you should try to mount them on top of your sub cabinets.

I got my pair finally and can't wait to hear them. I still haven't been able to buy the single 2360a from Riza, and I would very much like you to speak to her for me, please....

So far I have 2360a, 2445 and double 2225J that I am going to put in a pair of old Olympus cabinets underneath the 2360a. I just need to make new baffles for the cabinets. I will post pictures too.
Got the JBL 3115a x-overs too and will compare them to the S3100 x-overs I have built.
For some reason my 2360a horns are different. One is blank and thick and one in matt finish and thinner???? Perhaps just different production runs.
Vern

demon

12-06-2008, 11:23 AM

hey verner!
very interesting you saying that i should mount the horns atop of the bassboxes WHILE i mount them on the bassboxes --must have the same thought at the same time!!

but i got problems: the magic has gone. i put the horns on the boxes as the are lying on their sides, and i dont think this did any bad -but i was rewiring the whole rig and i guess something went wrong. some bad phasing!
this is frustrating.
re-, off- and around-wiring is NO fun at all.

cheers,
-sigh-
mikey

Doc Mark

12-08-2008, 08:22 AM

Hi, Mikey,

I was wondering if you have given thought to going back to the 2380A', with the 2445's? What was it about them that you didn't like? For your situation, and living space, I would think that this combo would perform just as well as the new horn setup, and be much easier to integrate into your listening environment. I look forward to reading your thoughts. Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

P.S. What sort of SPL's are you usually hitting during your listening? Any idea? Bet it loud, for sure! ;):blink:

demon

12-08-2008, 09:56 AM

hello doc!

i had the absolutely same thought when i decided to get me the big horns -there wont be much of a difference in the sound except for a little lower XO to the woofer (just for the hell of it i went off and got them).
but its much of a difference in imaging and, yes, naturality. when the itsy bitsy 238o was razorsharp and very very accurate, the big one is just the same BUT at the same time very tender. the image produced says exactly this:
"its the real deal. never mind, youre welcome"

now two things:

1. i dont know why it is like that yet, because i didnt find the time to think me through all of this. my first guess is that the room gets more filled out and therefor the reflections of the HF are more uniform.

2. i dont believe in the theory that a speaker has to be small if the room is small, IF the midfrequ. is produced by a small enough formation (i love coax). further i dont even believe in the theory that the speaker itself has to be smaller than the room. why should it? just give me some horns and i will find a place to live around them.
this stuff is all about compromises ;)

------------

on wednesday hopefully my technician/magician will drop by to help me get some things right and properly measured, he will take the volume too if we have time. in the end i dont think that i top 9o dB average at all -blame the room again.
for example, there is a setup (its machine's mother) in a town near vienna with 18"+12"+10"+2"comp(into 238o)+tweeter, 5kW penta-amped and built into a highly absorbing room in the basemant of a house built on a hill (uhm..) -it sounds brilliant, nearly like an open-area setup. listening to that monster is like riding a rocket. with good dynamic input (:p michael jackson/bruce swedien) i hit the maximum volume on the pre within seconds. i would ruin my hearing for good if it wouldnt stop.
what did i want to say...oh yeah, the room. my own room keeps me from listening very loud, when it starts to "sing with the music" -but someday i will shut it up for good.
for now, shutting up myself will be enough.
:blah:

photo taken yesterday (by a guest):

http://www.abload.de/img/p1080866zkqy.jpg

cheers,
mikey

Robh3606

12-08-2008, 05:33 PM

Hello Demon

How close are you to that rig?? I listen in pretty tight 7-8 ft figure 2 1/2 meters.

Rob:)

JeffW

12-08-2008, 06:26 PM

There's a pair of 2360A w/adapters (http://cgi.ebay.com/JBL-2360-A-Horn-Pair_W0QQitemZ140287029576QQihZ004QQcategoryZ50597 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) on US Ebay right now. Getting them to Europe would be a trick.

vernb

12-10-2008, 05:16 PM

So, I will start my project, even though I am too busy at work and rebuilding my house.
At least now I have all the drivers and cabinets:
JBL Olympus, two pairs of 2225 woofers, 3115A x-overs, 2445 drivers on 2360a horns.

I just need to make new baffles and find a way to calculate the ports for two 2225 in one cabinet. they seem to be around 225 litres internal volume.
The Olympus almost look small under the 2360a horns :bs:

JBL 4645

12-10-2008, 05:38 PM

Now that is work of art its so sexy looking for a horn it gives me the horn :D just looking at the horn. Are you playing these softly in the room you don’t need to play them loud not in such close proximity those things have rating of I think its 130db? a modest 85 to 90 would be cool but its your system and your ears.

http://www.abload.de/img/p1080866zkqy.jpg

vernb

12-11-2008, 05:23 AM

I came to think of this: On the 2360a the adaptor slots are vertical and the horns have HF roll off when the listener moves up and down vertically.

On my H3100 horns (from S3100) the adaptor slots are horizontal......

Could this be because the 2360a are made for long distance listening where H3100 was made for home use? Should we perhaps listen to the 2360a turned on its side for home use?

also my 2350 horns are horizontal

demon

12-11-2008, 12:52 PM

hey verner, looks great!
and no, the olympus are just the right size it seems.
hope you can peek a listen to them soon --please let us know then.
about the vertical/horizontal dispersion thing: i was thinking about thinking about it. if it wouldnt sound so good already, i would have already tried it out, but manouvering those things on my appartment isnt very easy....when i have more time left i will start to get really into it.

the man with the spl-meter didnt come -next week then.

cheers,
mikey

demon

12-28-2008, 12:08 PM

today we listeneded to my rig and watched the spl meter: average listening volumes about 85 dBC, with nice material like weather report slightly over 9o dBC, all in slow rating.
of course it didnt feel loud at all.

cheers,
mikey

demon

12-30-2008, 11:24 AM

about loudness--
just to let you know, today i paid a visit to a friend who just recently finished his klipschorn + 1o" midbass +coaxial driven (bms) horn system, managed digitally and beeing tri-amped.
we really kicked it, and at the end of the day we had 128dBC (slow) on the clock, about 2,5meters away from the speakers (listening position).
giant earthmover. big fun.
this is about as far as can go with high volumes i guess, without feeling uncomfortable. my ears are alright, no ringing or cottonball feeling (of course i take care!).

cheers,
mikey

jerv

01-06-2009, 02:23 PM

After a long search, I finally got a pair of 2360's in the house, and thought I would join this thread.

These horns are really awesome. I am now listening to them togheter with 2235's in 5 cu.ft reflex boxes, 400 Hz passive crossover with some compensation, and some room eq. No supertweeter seems necessary in my setup.

Notice prototype crossover components to the left. Still measuring, simulating, tweaking and testing. Exciting!!

cheers!
Espen

(PS: Sorry for bad quality photo. Used my mobile phone camera).

demon

01-06-2009, 03:01 PM

--gosh, the nearly touch the ceiling!
so its a clean 2-way system. sounds great (i bet it does).

--please keep us informed.
didnt know there where so many 236o-friendly people on the board.

--cheers,
mikey

edit: wait wait you bought the horns on german ebay, right? already with drivers. if yes, please tell me about the driver. tell me about the drivers anyway, they look so none-jbl.
thanks!

vernb

01-06-2009, 03:23 PM

edit: wait wait you bought the horns on german ebay, right? already with drivers. if yes, please tell me about the driver. tell me about the drivers anyway, they look so none-jbl.
thanks![/quote]

No I bought the ones on German ebay with driver Reinkuss Heinz for euro 500 for my friend and the other set on German ebay (two weeks before) without drivers for euro 300 for myself. He already had one 2360 and three 2450SL driver, so he is going to use them for Home Theater. I am going to use them with 2450J in a 2-way myself when/if they arrive. If not it might end up with my 2482a and 075 bullit in a 3-way.
Vern

NB: your HT setup looks aweome JERV

demon

01-06-2009, 03:58 PM

great deals on both, i think. what are these "reinkuss heinz" drivers (weird name!) like? did you try them?

cheers,
mikey

jerv

01-07-2009, 12:58 AM

Thanks, guys.

No I bought the ones on German ebay with driver Reinkuss Heinz for euro 500 for my friend and the other set on German ebay (two weeks before) without drivers for euro 300 for myself. He already had one 2360 and three 2450SL driver, so he is going to use them for Home Theater. I am going to use them with 2450J in a 2-way myself when/if they arrive. If not it might end up with my 2482a and 075 bullit in a 3-way.
Vern

So you are the one who bought them! I was in contact with the seller also, but he seemed reluctant to sell them to Norway. So I instead bought a pair on US ebay (and shudder to think what I had to pay for shipping - but I had to have those horns, and in the end it wasn't much more expensive than the German deal anyway).

I use Radian 950-PB drivers. They are 4-inch aluminium diaph drivers with neo manget. In comparison with the 2441 they go much higher in frequency, so less compensation is needed. I am still in the process of designing crossover networks. First passive (to get the feel of the drivers/horn compination), then analog active.

vernb

01-07-2009, 01:09 AM

Thanks, guys.
So you are the one who bought them! I was in contact with the seller also, but he seemed reluctant to sell them to Norway. So I instead bought a pair on US ebay (and shudder to think what I had to pay for shipping - but I had to have those horns, and in the end it wasn't much more expensive than the German deal anyway).
.

Both German sellers did not want to send the horns, local pickup only. I had to drive to Wolfsburg and back (18 hours driving:() to get them, and they nearly did not fit in the car. They are in awful shape with lots of big scratches. One is blank and one mat. I think I will eventually sand them down and paint them white (doesn't look so big either).
I am glad you got a pair anyway :). Those drivers you have should be fabulous. I can't wait to try my 2360 but it might be another month before the room is ready.
My friend took the Reinkuss Heinz drivers and used for a PA rig. They looked shit and very old.
Vern

jerv

01-07-2009, 02:09 AM

Both German sellers did not want to send the horns, local pickup only. I had to drive to Wolfsburg and back (18 hours driving:() to get them, and they nearly did not fit in the car. They are in awful shape with lots of big scratches. One is blank and one mat. I think I will eventually sand them down and paint them white (doesn't look so big either).
I am glad you got a pair anyway :). Those drivers you have should be fabulous. I can't wait to try my 2360 but it might be another month before the room is ready.
My friend took the Reinkuss Heinz drivers and used for a PA rig. They looked shit and very old.
Vern

Wow. I also considered driving to Germany, but thought better of it. My horns turned out to look excellent - just some cleaning and a small job with a black spray can restored the finish to good level. Maybe my $600 used on shipping wasn't so bad after all.

Please keep us posted with your progress. Very interested in hearing about the 2450 drivers.

Espen

demon

01-12-2009, 02:59 PM

looks like youve been through a lot just to get those horns.
i considerd my snowjourney an adventure, and i got the horns just for the hell of it (as i told you). i didnt expect a change like that.
anyway, this are old news, already told.

whats new?
my open baffle subwoofers are homing in. the drivers came today, one went back already because it was badly damaged.

what theyre made of is a mystery, where they come from no one knows

and if you find out you get some jellybeans from ye olde miqueye. see them in a still life:

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/P1080708-stillleben-web.jpg

cheers,
mikey

vernb

01-20-2009, 03:01 AM

2360a were installed yesterday on top of my DIY 1.
2450 drivers were mounted, and the crossover connected. H3100/276ND disconnected. 1400ND PRO still on.

Test Setup: Accuphase C240 preamp, Rotel RB956AX (6 channel) poweramp, Denon DVD 3800.

Well it sounds quite good, but still a lot of adjustments to do. The 1400PRO's run on bridged channels and are turned up a lot to compensate for lower sensitivity. The S3100 crossover seems to have a little too much HF comp. but not anoyingly so.

Soundstage is huge and tall compared to before. Probably also because the 2360a are on top and therefore a lot taller than the speakers with H3100 inside before. I have JBL 3115a crossovers too, but will try them later. Probably same sensitivity problem, since they were made for 4 JBL 2225 drivers to match the 2360a.

They are way too big, my girlfriend says, and I might end up keeping my 2350 instead, and sell 2360a with 3115a crossovers.

I will get back with more impressions on the sound.
Vernb

pos

01-20-2009, 03:51 AM

You guys are crazy :D

demon

01-20-2009, 08:46 AM

They are way too big, my girlfriend says, and I might end up keeping my 2350 instead, and sell 2360a with 3115a crossovers.

i consider them as sculptures, industrial on the outside, aerodynamic on the inside...and somehow looking just way to interesting to be put away. i like the oblique sideview the most, showing the contrast of the inside and outside the same time. and showing the beautiful driver --too bad i cant listen to them in that position!

saying that, first i saw the 235o i was stunned all the same. they are beautiful! but for me, they would have to be naked, not put away in a box.

i hope you will have fun trying out your horns.

cheers,
mikey

JBL 4645

01-20-2009, 12:36 PM

JBL 4645

01-20-2009, 12:39 PM

You guys are crazy :D

My sentiment exactly. There both off there trolleys.:D What is the sensitivity of the 2360A can’t be asked to look it right now its over 110db I think.

vernb

01-20-2009, 01:10 PM

My sentiment exactly. There both off there trolleys.:D What is the sensitivity of the 2360A can’t be asked to look it right now its over 110db I think.

They are around 113db I think. And dimensions are 80x80x80cm = a little less than 3 feet. I think actually only the depth of 80cm plus the 2450 drivers gives me headaches. There is not much room left to have living room furniture :o:

demon

01-20-2009, 02:42 PM

They are around 113db I think. And dimensions are 80x80x80cm = a little less than 3 feet. I think actually only the depth of 80cm plus the 2450 drivers gives me headaches.

hey, at least you still got the original stickers on the hornbell.:applaud:
as i said -these babies are sculptures. if one cant agree, i guess it could be rather hard to get along with them (in a civil vicinity).

There is not much room left to have living room furniture :o:

living-what what-ni-what??!
:biting:

cheers,
miquey

demon

01-20-2009, 02:46 PM

You guys are crazy :D

My sentiment exactly. There both off there trolleys.:D What is the sensitivity of the 2360A can’t be asked to look it right now its over 110db I think.

oh :D
ever heard of horn envy?
think about it :moon:

JBL 4645

01-21-2009, 03:57 AM

They are around 113db I think. And dimensions are 80x80x80cm = a little less than 3 feet. I think actually only the depth of 80cm plus the 2450 drivers gives me headaches. There is not much room left to have living room furniture :o:

That doesn’t surprise me if you stick any more JBL cinema PA types in the room your not going to have enough room to swing a cat around.:D I think it’s the depth that is almost 3 feet. Still at just under 3 feet square that is still a very large HF horn.

Bet those can be picked up cheap as biscuits today.

JBL 4645

01-21-2009, 03:59 AM

oh :D
ever heard of horn envy?
think about it :moon:

I think I have somewhere in the back of my mind.:D I’d like to have three 2360A THX approved horns bugger the neighbours. Make it loud, but safe!

JBL 4645

01-21-2009, 04:02 AM

hey, at least you still got the original stickers on the hornbell.:applaud:
miquey

Oh, yeah I just scrolled back up the page and yes I see the sticky on them. Not that it would matter in cinema you’d never see the stage speakers as they are behind the perforated screen.;)

JBL 4645

01-21-2009, 04:05 AM

After a long search, I finally got a pair of 2360's in the house, and thought I would join this thread.

These horns are really awesome. I am now listening to them togheter with 2235's in 5 cu.ft reflex boxes, 400 Hz passive crossover with some compensation, and some room eq. No supertweeter seems necessary in my setup.

Notice prototype crossover components to the left. Still measuring, simulating, tweaking and testing. Exciting!!

cheers!
Espen

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=36370&stc=1&d=1231277004
(PS: Sorry for bad quality photo. Used my mobile phone camera).

Oh, man you suck! That is nice I like the way they are toed in on the corners that is class. :applaud:

jerv

01-22-2009, 01:32 PM

Oh, man you suck! That is nice I like the way they are toed in on the corners that is class. :applaud:

Thanks!

They already sound great - and will hopefully sound even better biamped, when my electronic analog crossovers are ready (am using passive prototype crossovers for the moment). Crossover 400 Hz to the 2235 bass bins - and lots of compensation and eq. Seems that no supertweeter is needed.

Espen

vernb

01-23-2009, 09:33 AM

I changed to a Nakamichi active x-over today. crossing at 550hz and only using the tone controls on the Accuphase C240 to adjust the UHF, this really seems to work better than the passive S3100 x-over:applaud:.

One 2450j seems to play a little louder than the other. Tried changing sides and the problem followed:blink:. They both measure around 8.3 ohms and the problem was there crossing over passively and actively, so it doesn't have anything to do with that. Not a big difference, but it is there, no doubt. Help please

Vernb

4313B

01-23-2009, 09:40 AM

Send Guido a PM. The both probably need to be gone through.

vernb

01-23-2009, 02:47 PM

the difference is about 1.5db

I will try out any last possibilities for a fault somewhere else in the system during the weekend

toddalin

01-23-2009, 02:56 PM

the difference is about 1.5db

I will try out any last possibilities for a fault somewhere else in the system during the weekend

Did you try actually switching the drivers on the horns? Some of these horns have been shown to "separate" and maybe that could cause a variation.

vernb

01-23-2009, 03:01 PM

Did you try actually switching the drivers on the horns? Some of these horns have been shown to "separate" and maybe that could cause a variation.

What do you mean by "separate"? I will try switching drivers tomorrow. And perhaps try the same drivers on my 2350 horns instead

Thanks

1audiohack

01-24-2009, 01:12 AM

Originally Posted by jerv http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=234702#post234702)
After a long search, I finally got a pair of 2360's in the house, and thought I would join this thread.

These horns are really awesome. I am now listening to them togheter with 2235's in 5 cu.ft reflex boxes, 400 Hz passive crossover with some compensation, and some room eq. No supertweeter seems necessary in my setup.

Notice prototype crossover components to the left. Still measuring, simulating, tweaking and testing. Exciting!!

I have been working with my 2360's for about six months. To me they are hard on axis around 7KHz and up. Tonight I added 2404's in at 8K with 2.3 mS delay and cut the 2360's at 8K. Much better!

With horn loaded subs and E130's for mid bass under them it makes for one bitchen shop system.:)

JBL 4645

01-24-2009, 03:34 AM

Thanks!

They already sound great - and will hopefully sound even better biamped, when my electronic analog crossovers are ready (am using passive prototype crossovers for the moment). Crossover 400 Hz to the 2235 bass bins - and lots of compensation and eq. Seems that no supertweeter is needed.

Espen

Oh, yeah I see the passive crossovers on the floor to the left-hand-side. Also is that a Marantz amplifier I see standing between the speakers?

jerv

01-24-2009, 11:30 AM

Oh, yeah I see the passive crossovers on the floor to the left-hand-side. Also is that a Marantz amplifier I see standing between the speakers?

No, it's an old SAE Mark One preamplifier. And you can also see an (almost nearly as old) Sumo Electra Preamp. What you don't see, is my GAS Thoebe preamp, and my SAE, GAS, and Sumo power amps. But you can see my three 250W MOSFET amps of own design and construction.

Espen

vernb

01-26-2009, 05:56 AM

problem seems to be in my preamp and fortunately not in the 2360 horns or 2450 drivers. I will get back to this

jerv

01-26-2009, 08:52 AM

I have been working with my 2360's for about six months. To me they are hard on axis around 7KHz and up. Tonight I added 2404's in at 8K with 2.3 mS delay and cut the 2360's at 8K. Much better!
....

Interesting. My setup does not seem hard, and I have good response to 16-18 kHz (using Radian 950-PB drivers and analog electronic crossover/eq). What drivers/xover compensation did you use on the 2360's?

Espen

JBL 4645

01-26-2009, 09:12 AM

No, it's an old SAE Mark One preamplifier. And you can also see an (almost nearly as old) Sumo Electra Preamp. What you don't see, is my GAS Thoebe preamp, and my SAE, GAS, and Sumo power amps. But you can see my three 250W MOSFET amps of own design and construction.

Espen

Sorry I must have missed those has I was too distracted by the JBL 2360-A horns each of the LF and HF bi-amp separately with passive crossover or do you plan on getting active crossover for ultimate smoothness.

I’ll take another peek as I’m a natural JBL voyeur.:D

JBL 4645

01-26-2009, 09:14 AM

I see I see I see says the blind man I see.

Yes I see I thought they where cases for CD’s :D

Need to take a few more pictures to exploit the rear view of the diy amplifiers. Also I think a few more of the JBL speakers as I can’t get enough.

I guess its really easy to get the JBL 2360-A THX horns to respond to high frequencies after a little minor in-room EQ due to the high sensitivity. I’d feel better if I had larger horns for my JBL control 5 the small HF titanium tweeter, I don’t like to push it too hard.

jerv

01-28-2009, 01:58 AM

Sorry I must have missed those has I was too distracted by the JBL 2360-A horns each of the LF and HF bi-amp separately with passive crossover or do you plan on getting active crossover for ultimate smoothness.

I have been using passive networks for some experiments and prototyping, but have now built analog active crossovers with eq and compensation built in. Biamping of course. Still adjusting and tweaking :)

demon

01-31-2009, 03:10 PM

this thread i read, hours on hours,
hijacked, corrupted by scandinavian powers.
i see nothing more to do but, machine, leave you.
i turn my head, to say goodbye. i will ...not... cry

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/hoerplatzsub-web.jpg

ok, its no so dramatic after all. the rhyme above came all alone you see and it seemed to fit the picture.
so: NO PROBLEM gentlemen, please dont leave this thread.

------------------------------

news:
i got a swedish chair (hej heater!)(thats living room furniture, right? it fits!!) and got the subwooferprototyps ala DIPOL connected.
it works (with lots of EQ)--
im sitting close to them and can hear alot of bass. BUT i think thats because i hit some hard room-modes right now.
after driving the subs around in the room i settled them right in front of the sweetspot in about 15o cm distance, befor that i had them behind the sweet spot in 1oo cm distance and the bass was much weaker (7dB) and clearer.
--so i really think i deal with room modes right now.

as soon as i find the time i will build better, stronger baffles, because the ones i have are built from cheapest scrap-parts from some ikea kitchen, and try some different mounting and positioning. cool would be a sub-cluster hanging from the ceiling, but im afraid the anchors would work their way out of the ceiling when given 18" vibrations 24/7 (im living in a very old house).

i will keep you informed on my progress.

cheers,
mikey

ps.
yes, the boxes look ugly in contrast to the beatiful horn, but please dont forget they are just the protos.

hjames

01-31-2009, 08:00 PM

Not just me - I have a pair of Poang and so does TiDome ...!
GOT to have the comfy chair!
but I've got little tiny speakers in my living room right now -
expecting a potential speaker buyer and I don't want to weird him
out with the 15s ...

But hey, Mikey, keep us informed!

news:
i got a swedish chair (hey heather!)(thats living room furniture, right? it fits!!) and got the subwooferprototyps ala DIPOL connected.
it works (with lots of EQ)--
im sitting close to them and can hear alot of bass. BUT i think thats because i hit some hard room-modes right now.
after driving the subs around in the room i settled them right in front of the sweetspot in about 15o cm distance, befor that i had them behind the sweet spot in 1oo cm distance and the bass was much weaker (7dB) and clearer.
--so i really think i deal with room modes right now.

as soon as i find the time i will build better, stronger baffles, because the ones i have are built from cheapest scrap-parts from some ikea kitchen, and try some different mounting and positioning. cool would be a sub-cluster hanging from the ceiling, but im afraid the anchors would work their way out of the ceiling when given 18" vibrations 24/7 (im living in a very old house).

i will keep you informed on my progress.

cheers,
mikey

ps.
yes, the boxes look ugly in contrast to the beatiful horn, but please dont forget they are just the protos.

Doc Mark

02-01-2009, 08:29 PM

Hey, Mikey,

WOW!! Your new system looks like it kicks some Bootie!! I'd love to hear it, someday, but don't know when, or if, Sweet Bride and I would ever get over your way! Congrats on your success, and hey, I liked the poem, too!! ;):D:applaud::applaud: Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

jerv

02-02-2009, 12:27 AM

Hi, Mikey!!

Here is a salute from Scandinavia!!:cheers:
Very nice system!! Your 2360's look gorgeous upon the 2206 cabinets. What subwoofers and xo do you use? Keep us posted.

Regards,
Espen

1audiohack

02-02-2009, 10:06 AM

What drivers/xover compensation did you use on the 2360's?

Good question, its a curve I wrote into the DBX. I pulled the correct CC compensation out of one of my JBL M552's and will compare that to whats in the DBX.

They have 2445's on them

After looking at the TF of the M552, I bet my curve is to hot. Here is what it should be.

JBL 4645

02-02-2009, 03:06 PM

The image has been defiantly patched together the Frankenstein way. :D What don’t have wide enough lens? Like the set-up its coming together a piece at time. :)

I like the way the light refracts onto the JBL 2360-A THX a dark blue look and shiny dark black. Have you noticed this Mike?
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/hoerplatzsub-web.jpg

JBL 4645

02-02-2009, 03:12 PM

I have been using passive networks for some experiments and prototyping, but have now built analog active crossovers with eq and compensation built in. Biamping of course. Still adjusting and tweaking :)

What haven’t you got an RTA to see the function of the frequency on a display then just settle for flat possible room response to the listening seating area?

I was mucking around the DCX2496 a few nights a go because I’m never happy with the response :D and I have an RTA to look at but I really need to get one part of the room sorted out with false wall to keep some of the lows even up at the front of the room.

demon

02-04-2009, 03:10 PM

hey doc!

invitation accepted :D
if you ever visit the ol' city of vienna be sure to let me know.

i hope to find the time and energy to mess around with the subs this weekend, and tweak the situation up a notch.
then FINALLY FINALLY i can start treating the room since i know that i will stick with the open baffle subs.
why do i stick with them?
1. they will perform good (loud) enough (close call) i can see that
2. they look gorgeous (my, dont they look gorgeous!!)
3. when the direct vibration into the floor gets fully killed my neighbours will hear _nothing_ of them because of the dipol effect.
3a. the room does _not_ shake but cleverly the bass is audible on the listening position.
4. points 1-3 again plus two, or better four more of these 18" beauties as a cluster growing down, off the ceiling, wouldnt that be a nice looking system? (and easy to wipe the floor. thinking practical)

--------------

yes the horns look cool and yes, obvioulsy they do!, and yes, i noticed the different colors on the frankenpicture -but hey: im really happy youre such a considerate spectator, i feel honored. i for myself like the mirror-image of the left speaker on the floor very much, as i remember the first mirror-image-on-the-floor-effects in mid nineties video games with a very nostalgic heart. it put so much life into the old, then new, shaky little worlds. as it puts in mine (old, new and shaky little world).

yours nostalgic,
mikey

Doc Mark

02-04-2009, 08:24 PM

Hey, Mikey,

Thanks for the invitation! Actually, we'll be working overseas in 2010, though I don't know if we'll end up close enough to you for a visit. But, if we did see that this could come to pass, I'll most certainly give you a shout, so we could drop by to say, "Hi"!! That would be outstanding! Have fun with your wonderful JBL's, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

vernb

02-05-2009, 03:05 PM

Been messing around alot with the 2360/2450 and different combinations of amps, crossovers etc.
Eventhough they do work fine as a two-way with the 2450 drivers, and eventhough the 2450 are supposed to play up to 20khz, I think a tweeter is needed. Even with the old 075/2402 bullit tweeters that only go up to around 16khz, the sound gets bigger more air around the instruments and voices.
I think I will sell the 2450 drivers on 2350 horns and keep my 2482 drivers on the 2360 horns with 2402 tweeters. And then probably use 1500GTI for LF on my new hornloaded cabinets:

1audiohack

02-07-2009, 02:52 AM

Interesting. My setup does not seem hard, and I have good response to 16-18 kHz (using Radian 950-PB drivers and analog electronic crossover/eq). What drivers/xover compensation did you use on the 2360's?

When I had them in the house they were really smooth, they do drop off pretty hard at 14.5kHz however.

They are on a DBX Drive Rack PA (it's a shop system) and it was mad for some reason. I had to hard reset it and rewrite the CC curve. The EQ looks like this,

1audiohack

02-07-2009, 03:04 AM

It's pretty close the white line is the 2360 CC comp curve pulled from the JBL M552 , the yellow one is from the DBX. They are back to awsome.

jerv

02-07-2009, 01:42 PM

Thanks for these curves. Basically, they look like my eq. The curve below is my eq for flat response to 20 kHz. As you can see, almost 15 dB at 12 kHz. This certainly may cause the driver to sound hard.

I am reconsidering the use of a supertweeter. I originally thought that a supertweeter wasn't necessary. Now I'm testing 2405's, with a crossover frequency of about 8 kHz. I'll keep you posted.

4313B

02-07-2009, 01:56 PM

Eventhough they do work fine as a two-way with the 2450 drivers, and eventhough the 2450 are supposed to play up to 20khz, I think a tweeter is needed. Even with the old 075/2402 bullit tweeters that only go up to around 16khz, the sound gets bigger more air around the instruments and voices.
I am reconsidering the use of a supertweeter. I originally thought that a supertweeter wasn't necessary. Now I'm testing 2405's, with a crossover frequency of about 8 kHz. I'll keep you posted.Interesting. One JBL engineer who has made a similar observation prefers a supertweeter in the mix and describes it exactly as "more air up top". And then another JBL engineer prefers the smoother response and lack of comb filtering by leaving the supertweeter out. :hmm:

Thanks for these curves. Basically, they look like my eq. The curve below is my eq for flat response to 20 kHz. As you can see, almost 15 dB at 12 kHz. This certainly may cause the driver to sound hard.
It really isn't supposed to but you're not the first to describe it like that. Maybe trying to push it flat all the way to 20 kHz. :dont-know Try something like 6 dB down at 20 kHz instead.

My wife definitely prefers the sound of the supertweeters while I find them mildly irritating unless they are super clean. The 2405 with a cc filter is about the lower limit of my tolerance for them. The 045's sound nice, I have no experience with the Pro versions of them.

demon

02-07-2009, 02:36 PM

i tried to use the 245o alone up to the top, with "flat" eq up to around 17kHz (my personal limit), and didnt like it in comparrison to the supertweet. really felt to miss something -so im using the 24o5 too, crossing over at 9kHz currently. i got it time alligned 2.22ms (89mm) on my digital crossover. i think i can locate the tweeter by hearing when its not properly delayed.
altough i have to say im still not fully satisfied with the highfrequency response -and think that the 24o4 would add a little nicer do to its vertical dispersion. one day i get me a pair of those and give it a shot.
on the other hand, i should try to mount the 24o5 inside the horn (coaxial) before purchasing yet another driver...

cheers,
mikey

JBL 4645

02-12-2009, 01:00 PM

When I had them in the house they were really smooth, they do drop off pretty hard at 14.5kHz however.

They are on a DBX Drive Rack PA (it's a shop system) and it was mad for some reason. I had to hard reset it and rewrite the CC curve. The EQ looks like this,

Dolphin Music UK is doing it cheap at £269.00 :)
http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/shop/flypage/product_id/37059/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=base (http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/shop/flypage/product_id/37059/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=base)

There are plentiful more on Google Product Search some sites are legitimate because I’ve brought for a few in the past, others look damn right dodgy and I wouldn’t touch them with a 12 foot barge pole.

This has slight edge over the Behringer DCX2496 which doesn’t support 28 band EQ is that 28 bands for each output or the two main input stages. Hmm does however have less inputs where the DCX2496 supports three inputs or is it four when rigged up with that thingy lead??

Hmm it has tiny little cooling fan on the back that’s interesting now. Just how loud is it or would it best suited in room isolated from the listening room to minimize fan noise.

jerv

02-12-2009, 02:24 PM

Interesting. One JBL engineer who has made a similar observation prefers a supertweeter in the mix and describes it exactly as "more air up top". And then another JBL engineer prefers the smoother response and lack of comb filtering by leaving the supertweeter out. :hmm:
It really isn't supposed to but you're not the first to describe it like that. Maybe trying to push it flat all the way to 20 kHz. :dont-know Try something like 6 dB down at 20 kHz instead.

My wife definitely prefers the sound of the supertweeters while I find them mildly irritating unless they are super clean. The 2405 with a cc filter is about the lower limit of my tolerance for them. The 045's sound nice, I have no experience with the Pro versions of them.

Thanks for those insights and comments. I haven't received the 2405's yet, so I cannot comment on that variation. But I have tried various eq's for the horns - dropping off at 15 kHz, for example - without better or significantly different subjective results. It is a bit strange: although they (with eq, of course) measure flat to 20 kHz, the subjective impression is that there is a little top-end sparkle lacking still.

jerv

02-12-2009, 02:30 PM

Dolphin Music UK is doing it cheap at £269.00 :)
http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/shop/flypage/product_id/37059/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=base (http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/shop/flypage/product_id/37059/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=base)
...

That was quite cheap,compared to other prices I have seen - especially prices here in Norway!

Do you have experience/knowledge about how the dbx driverack 260 compares with the Rane rpm26z?

pos

02-12-2009, 03:55 PM

The 045's sound nice, I have no experience with the Pro versions of them.
What are these pro versions?

johnaec

02-12-2009, 05:09 PM

Do you have experience/knowledge about how the dbx driverack 260 compares with the Rane rpm26z?I have both and prefer the DR260, especially when it comes to connections, (the Rane uses Euroblocks).

John

jerv

02-13-2009, 02:18 AM

I have both and prefer the DR260, especially when it comes to connections, (the Rane uses Euroblocks).

John

Thanks.

Yes, those Euroblocks....But apart from that: how about actual use of the unit: (flexibility and range in eq and xover settings etc) and sound (noise, dynamic headroom, etc) ? ....

demon

04-25-2009, 02:51 AM

hey!

just wanted to say "hi" again. im still here, yes, and quietly reading. unfortunatly i aint got much time to join in any discussion... :(

about the MACHINE:
the open baffle subwoofers are working nice enough for now, but im already thinking about modifying them. im currently talking to axel ridtahler (a german audio engineer) about changing my subs to "RiPol (http://www.lautsprechershop.de/hifi/index.htm?/hifi/inter_ar_ripol.htm8)" -which is a special form of an open baffle designed by him, it features the -for me- very important impuls-correction using two chassis eliminating each others vibrations. i hope this works out (depends on my chassis)!
(eventually i will end up with 4x18")

then the mains will be finished using ready made boxes. i will enjoy lansing heritage using either a L100, 4310/11/12 or similar wood enclosure to house my 12" woofers -this will sure be no problem since the woofers dont go below 1oo Hz anymore since i got the subs. easy job for them.
i think it will look cool with the bookshelf-boxes lying on their sides, big horn behind/above. to get them off the floor a little im thinking about 19" racks/stands wich will also take in my amps and digital XO.

the rest will be investing in room acoustics and a new audio computer and (home)studio stuff. yes..!
:applaud:

cheers,
mikey

demon

06-01-2009, 09:16 AM

update: the satellites are liftet a few inches, good idea:

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/P1090849web999groundlift.jpg

--looks fragile, yes, but its just a test.
next step will be to try out

...ready made boxes. i will enjoy lansing heritage using ... a 4310 wood enclosure to house my 12" woofers -this will sure be no problem since the woofers dont go below 1oo Hz anymore since i got the subs. easy job for them.
i scored a second pair of 431o and will share them with a friend, i will keep the cab. today i tried if the 2206 would fit into the cab (with the original pair):

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/P1090823web999testing.jpg

and it does! the tweeter might fit the place where the mid-driver is located.
all i need is a nice plug to close the port, and as soon as the new cabs are here ill give it a shot.
(i will not alter/destroy anything on the cab while testing, dont be scared)

subwoofers will come this saturday: yeehaw!!

cheers,
mikey

demon

06-02-2009, 12:51 PM

hello!

after all that action yesterday we seem a little hungry...

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/jbl4310/P1090948web999eating431o.jpg

nooooo, dont eat grampa!!

cheers,
mikey

demon

06-06-2009, 10:32 AM

grampa vanished, but 'machine' didnt eat him. 'machine' grew bigger nonetheless:

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/P1090966web999coll.jpg

the boxlike item underneath the palm is housing two 18" drivers:
its called a RiPol, and its tiny! (sound is great, though)
= open baffle subwoofer system designed by a german engineer. there is a patent on this so i dont want to give any information about the specs -please contact the originator instead. his name is axel ridtahler, and i can give you his contact adress via PM.

for now i will listen to my now fully extended system and check out the features of the sub.
next week i will finish the second one (stereo), and then its all done!!

cheers,
mikey

JBL 4645

06-06-2009, 10:43 AM

Nice diy sub you got there. :applaud:

You can finish it off with some spray paint primer and few coats of Saturn black spay paint.

Or do you have something else in mind?

demon

06-06-2009, 11:01 AM

JBL 4645

06-06-2009, 11:09 AM

hey!

well its not DIY, its DI-someone else. since i got no workshop myself i didnt even start building on my own but contacted the carpenter who is best to my knowledge.
the work is flawless.
i will think about what to do with the cabinets after some time living with them, maybe i gonna paint them *blue* or *grey*, or simply oil them (~i like authenic industrial surfaces, so why bother paint em).
anyway i will see.
for know i will listen.

cheers--
mikey

I see D.I.S.E.:D

Use spray paint it will give an even uniform texture over brush stokes.;)

Oh what frequency response does it cover or haven’t you had the time to put an RTA on it?

I did a quick doodle on paper I think I know how it’s built. It seems easy if you had the tools.

Small it is looking at the A4 size paper of JBL HF driver standing on the enclosure shows the rough scale of the sub.

Can you please take a few close up pictures, like to get view though the (vent port hole) stick the camera inside and let the flash light it up!

I gather the 18” are JBL? You made no reference to model number just 18” and I’m only guessing there JBL?

demon

06-06-2009, 11:45 AM

hey ashley!

the design is not a secret, but patented and i only use it under kind (and very friendly, really) permission of the creator. you can see this german website, with informing pictures: http://www.lautsprechershop.de/hifi/ridtahler.htm
i was asked not to discuss any TSP of the chassis, and specs of the cabinet.
its ruffly big enough to house the 18" typeunknown, and is basically two folded baffles, working push-push.
for any more information you can contact axel himself, he is a pleasure to deal with.
---------
i will think about spraying it, after thinking about nice colors. a big jbl-blue cube would sure look nice!
then again, the fronts have to be dealt with, too.
oh my.

EDIT: i did a quick setup today and im at -6dB at about 2o hertz. thats much better then it was with the simple openbaffle-subwoofers i used til today.
next week i will run both subs (means 4x18") and will finally install it. measurements follow.

but back to music now! :applaud:

cheers,
mikey

demon

06-17-2009, 11:45 AM

so i have this other thread going, but thats merely for planning. i like to keep this one here alive too, for general informaton and chat.
so, see some pictures! first, my room with the subs on their "final" place:

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/P1100086web999room.jpg

hey, i really love those banana-trees (i got one mother and three kids):

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/P1100179web999greenqueen.jpg

my new tweeters (from john) will be installed tomorrow, hopefully:

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/P1100190web999butt-vs-slot.jpg

and compared to "natures own waveguide"

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/P1100213web999musa-2404.jpg

...they look terribly nice!

cheers,
mikey

hjames

06-17-2009, 01:36 PM

Looks like Baby Butt-cheeks!

demon

06-18-2009, 01:47 PM

Looks like Baby Butt-cheeks!

yes, they are nice, arent they?
i installed them a minute ago -but just swapped them with the 24o5 and nothing else, measurements and XO work will be done weekends.
--looking forward!

cheers,
mikey

demon

06-20-2009, 10:18 AM

up and running:

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/P1100249web999avrgshark.jpg

see the average sized shark (a.s.s.) to compare the size of the new butt-units.
sound: nice! i dont think i can hear a differnce/2405 though...not when on listening position. maybe the soundexperience in the rest of the room is better now, but i dont really know. theres no place left to sit and listen anyway!

XO=9.06kHz ...as before. i dont think i will change that in the near future.
DLY=2.01mS ...thats 0.21mS less than it was before with the slot -as i measured using (deliberatly) only the frequency-response-o-meter: thats the spot where the horn and the tweeter add up the to the most flat line (filters used: LR48).
thats not quite logical (0.21mS=70mm) but i cant remember how i measured it the last time...anyway, it sounds alright.

cheers,
mikey

demon

06-23-2009, 10:07 PM

hey!

i have to quit the forum for a time now, having made some decisions in "real" life wich do affect my time here.
i just wanted to let you know that this has nothing to do with the board itself, not the users here, but is necessary from a ...social standpoint.

anyway, ill be back :cool:

cheers,
mikey

demon

09-05-2009, 12:35 PM

hello!

my blog-updater reminds me to update my blog. it says amongst other things:
"see the JBL 4435 wrapped in bubbles and stuff"

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/jbl%204435/P1100528web999.jpg

and:
"yo yo yo!!"

i dont think that i have to comment this.
mikey

demon

10-18-2009, 10:34 PM

hello!

quick quick quick i gotta run to work but i cant leave without posting a little photo-story here:
this weekend i put away the 2360 to take a close listen on my new 2344:

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/P1100648web999cheekparade.jpg
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/P1100690web999untouch.jpg

they are ok so far. i miss the "magic" of the big ones, but they certainly got other points. like imaging very well in depht -some instruments appear nearly outside of the room!

after listening to that for a while i wanted to try out a new position for my subs and ended up like this:

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/P1100691web999subsub.jpg
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/P1100692web99923442421.jpg

gee, really great sound there, directly in front of my nose. but totally unbearable to look at/live with.
so, downgrade:

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/P1100698web999sub.jpg

looks like half the fun but it sure wasnt. didnt notice any difference to the double-sub-setup (after adjusting the gain of course).

dont know why but i decided to put everything away and come up with the 4435, altough the woofers are still not finished.
(see next post)

cheers,
mikey

demon

10-18-2009, 10:38 PM

and hurry hurry hurry the rest of the story:

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/P1100709web999hatch.jpg
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/P1100710web9994435.jpg
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/P1100713web999stereo.jpg

the horns got installed and the grilles mounted, but i forgot to take a photo...

gotta run now!
cheers,
mikey

Maron Horonzakz

10-19-2009, 06:33 AM

Clean up your room,,,I smell a rotted pizza some where....

Eaulive

10-19-2009, 07:02 AM

This room is a dream, everything you need is there and nothing superfluous.... like a wife :D

Chas

10-19-2009, 07:13 AM

Yes, I think I could say with absolute certainty, this guy has no wife and it's quite likely, no GF.:D

Funny, I am feeling a little envious........:o:

demon

10-19-2009, 07:52 AM

great, even on the internet i get only bad room-response ;)
seriously i still havent gotten myself to care for the room acoustics, because i somehow fear the efforts and of course its not easy to measure without a standardized noise or something. wich brings me to the idea of using the 4435 as the reference to wich my room will be tuned. if i compare the frequency reading by jbl with my measurements in the room, i could manage to find out what to do. couldnt i?! this would involve, of course, some proper investigation and clever thinking, wich might become a problem...

(hey cool i managed to get around answering the questions about my rotten girlfriend and hot pizza)

anyway thanks for watching.
:)
cheers,
mikey

richluvsound

10-19-2009, 07:59 AM

4435's are an amazing monitor ansd nowhere near as room dependant as the 4345. I prefer the dispersion of the 2344 horn . they seem to fill the room more . imho !

rich

Maron Horonzakz

10-19-2009, 08:08 AM

With the way your cloths are hanging,,,It makes a perfect anechoic chamber,,, Now all you need is a sweep frequency gen. and distortion anilyser plus chart recorder to get results... But where to put them????

Chas

10-19-2009, 08:22 AM

Hey Mikey, good luck with tuning the room to your 4435's....until you get dressed for work......;)

demon

10-29-2009, 10:59 AM

woofers home!!

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/panoramaWEB999.jpg

:applaud:

they sound as tiny as they look.
no, really! now, where did i put my other horns, they must be here somewhere...

cheers,
mikey

ps: i will take nicer pictures when i have more light in. its dark and rainy all the time...

JeffW

10-29-2009, 11:13 AM

That banana leaf looks about dry enough to smoke!

demon

10-29-2009, 11:57 AM

yeah, i had the "red little spider of the fertile ones and the grapevine" as summer intern this year and my two big trees both suffered hard. i had to take one down, and the one you see is still not recovering.
got a lot of new sprouts though.
the box you see on the table btw contained a bunch of predatory mites i ordered to kill the red spiders. but they turned out to be vegetarian monkmites or something, since they didnt eat any of the others and i think they didnt even reproduce a whole lot. they transcended their predatory miteness.

:( :)

cheers
mikey

ps: the biohelp-box is long empty of course and i used it to keep the screws for the monitors. i just say before i have to answer any questions...

Maron Horonzakz

10-29-2009, 01:45 PM

Dont forget to change your underwear on your birthday.

demon

10-30-2009, 08:44 AM

thanks for that craptacular comment, maron.
if you got something to say, speak up please but spare me this kind of conversation.
:bs:
thanks
mikey

Maron Horonzakz

10-30-2009, 08:55 AM

If you have anything interesting to show,,show it,, But showing a crappy filthy room is not cool.

cooky1257

10-30-2009, 09:28 AM

What a cool room/studio/den and the speakers aren't bad either:)
Probably lots of envious members here-a real bachelors pad-what red blooded woman wouldn't go weak at the knees at the sight of those JBL's.

hjames

10-30-2009, 09:46 AM

If you have anything interesting to show,,show it,,
But showing a crappy filthy room is not cool.
Insulting him (or his room) is against the rules here - be polite or go away!

He's at least showing off his collection as he upgrades it ...
and is a friendly sort to boot.

Plus I agree, the shark is quite cool!

You? Not so much ...

MikeBrewster77

10-30-2009, 10:42 AM

The speakers are gorgeous, the stuffed shark is cute, and the room - while full - actually looks quite clean.

Thanks for sharing the pics, Demon.

timc

10-31-2009, 12:56 AM

/*Makes Maron go stand in the naughty corner*\

cooky1257

10-31-2009, 01:11 AM

/*Makes Maron go stand in the naughty corner*\

It would have to be a spotlessly clean and very tidy naughty corner:D

pos

10-31-2009, 01:29 AM

So, Demon, have you tried the 2360 above the dual 2234 yet?

demon

10-31-2009, 03:45 AM

thanks guys for the feedback! :)
i appreciate it, really. i wouldnt post pictures if they would annoy many people. but since its just maron,,, ;)
(and that would be the end of the discussion please)

So, Demon, have you tried the 2360 above the dual 2234 yet?no, i want to listen to the monitors in natura for a few weeks, without changing them. to get used to their sound, and learn from it.
but thats not keeping me from thinking about experimenting with additions: first would be to integrate my subwoofers again, then theres supertweeters to add and the last thing would be to use the 236o again, XO around 5oo-6ooHz. the 2344 wouldnt be used then, better to mount a tweeter IN the 236o, coaxial (should have done that long ago).

besides that, im making plans about changing (my room). removing two beams and some inlays from the rack on the rear wall, so i can push the speakers way back to the wall, and have more space left in (my room). could work out pretty well.

+++
this is not a review, just a view things ive noticed from getting into listening to the 4435. a few impressions so to say:
first, i was a little scared that the double 15" bassreflex would be to powerful for (my room), and would generate to much pressure. but it looks like the speakers just hit the nail on the head the way they are placed right now. i have noticed no strong modes in the deeper regions, the bass is much cleaner than i expected.
not even the floor, though its a very old house and the floor swings, is resonating noticable. thats something i had problems with every conventional speaker to date, that the floor would start to shake -but right now theres nothing like that. maybe its the sheer weight of the speakers.
so the bass is slim and clean, a real pleasure to listen to. what amazes me is that quick noises, like a kickdrum or a slapped bass, are considerably punchier than with my old 22o6. i thought that would be hard to top!
also very nice performance on vocals and guitar. i tried to notice the crossover to the horns, but theres no chance for me to hear anything. the weeks before i layed my ears on them i wondered alot about that, because i find the 15" is playing up so far. but the system performes seamless (of course it does, its genius).
the upper regions dont give me nothing to worry about either, i have great imaging in all dimensions. especially the depht of the stage is amazing -never heard a deep stage like that anywhere yet.
another thing i worried about up front (i should stop doing that) is the highs that roll of so early. but they shine too. 16kHz? appearantly enough!
+++
compared to me ol machine, wich i got used to so much in the last year, there are some issues that i will check out with experiments. for example, theres something about the big 236o that i just cant describe in words. a kind of easyness and generosity thats more magic than logic. when i replaced it with the 2344 two weeks ago, the soundstage literally shrinked from a huge cathedral of sonic enlightment to a meager palast of sound. sitting here now, listening to the 2344, they are exceptional and i wouldnt miss anything if i didnt have this special 236o experience.
lower voice range and bass -the double 15" make the single 12" forgotten. period.
subbass compared to my other dipol subwoofers is not as deep (the dipol was DSP controlled, with lots of EQ), but not that much noticable with normal musical material. electronic music, dub and some moviesoundtracks use subbass so much though that i dont want to miss it.
the caracter of the bass is not so different, amazingly, but if i had to name it, the overallfeeling of the dipol was "lighter".

:blah:

cheers,
mikey

Maron Horonzakz

10-31-2009, 07:46 AM

First of all,,,I,m not a neat freak,,, But putting that aside.. Having all four woofers installed in those cabinets will not generate pressure in your room. If you think so open a window,, But standing waves and random lobes can be affected,,, Mixinig various drivers without good test equipment to record results is a design in futillity,,,But much can be learned if you have a good memory to record down your results,,, Your approach is venturesome but futile.,,,First of all you know nothing about imaging and sound stage,, If you had photos of the recording venue,,then you could make a compareison,, Ive been recording for over 25 years,,You,d be suprised at what is going on in the studios,,Much is not even stereo.. Changing the room design would help.

1audiohack

10-31-2009, 11:53 AM

If you had photos of the recording venue,,then you could make a compareison,, Ive been recording for over 25 years,,You,d be suprised at what is going on in the studios,,Much is not even stereo.. Changing the room design would help.

Have you ever watched a movie for technical reasons only to get cought up in the story and forget why you started it in the first place? And then realized that you really enjoyed yourself regardless?

Have you ever got in the car to go nowhere, on purpose, and enjoyed everything you saw heard and smelled caring little about what was required for the journey from the electrical contact made when you turned the key to the sweaty guy's that pumped the crude in Soudi Arabia? Does it matter so much how aware you are of how everything works connecting the steering wheel to the tires? That'a all stuff you can learn when and if you want to. All that really matters some times is the adventure.

For some, the days of bliss discovery may be over and now much more scientific, and that is equally OK, and certainly encouraged.

This forum is much like a one room shool house, the students of all "grades" come and go, as do many of the teachers, the same disscusions are held time and time again in the same space and that bores many people. We even have the Preachers to tell us what we can and can't do with our tweeters in the privacy of our own homes. Oh well. The times of discovery are for me a pleasure to experience and watch.

Plow on and enjoy Mikey and all!

Mr. Widget

10-31-2009, 12:06 PM

This forum is much like a one room shool house, the students of all "grades" come and go, as do many of the teachers, the same disscusions are held time and time again in the same space and that bores many people. We even have the Preachers to tell us what we can and can't do with our tweeters in the privacy of our own homes. Oh well. The times of discovery are for me a pleasure to experience and watch.

Plow on and enjoy Mikey and all!I like that... great post!

Widget

Maron Horonzakz

10-31-2009, 12:31 PM

If it was not for the teachers and preachers,,We,d all be monkeys typing out Shakespear.

JBL 4645

11-01-2009, 08:15 AM

hello!

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/P1100648web999cheekparade.jpg
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/P1100690web999untouch.jpg

after listening to that for a while i wanted to try out a new position for my subs and ended up like this:

cheers,
mikey

I‘ve seen the smaller HF horn more recently or the mid one not the tiniest one behind the screen in the smaller digital Empire screens at Leicester Square.

I see you’ve been watching The Untouchables (chapter 16, 69 minutes into the film) and notice two DCX2496 in the background. Match up the fronts LCR the same there is some neat panning effects in The Untouchables. The LFE.1 track is used sparingly most of the bass is covered by the LCR fronts.

Listen out for the dog barking on screen right at 69 min 26 sec sounds cool against the centre channel mix. What would have me do? I have taken this as far as it can go also the bird chirping on screen left.

demon

11-01-2009, 09:06 AM

Have you ever watched a movie for technical reasons only to get cought up in the story and forget why you started it in the first place? And then realized that you really enjoyed yourself regardless?

Have you ever got in the car to go nowhere, on purpose, and enjoyed everything you saw heard and smelled caring little about what was required for the journey from the electrical contact made when you turned the key to the sweaty guy's that pumped the crude in Soudi Arabia? Does it matter so much how aware you are of how everything works connecting the steering wheel to the tires? That'a all stuff you can learn when and if you want to. All that really matters some times is the adventure.

For some, the days of bliss discovery may be over and now much more scientific, and that is equally OK, and certainly encouraged.

This forum is much like a one room shool house, the students of all "grades" come and go, as do many of the teachers, the same disscusions are held time and time again in the same space and that bores many people. We even have the Preachers to tell us what we can and can't do with our tweeters in the privacy of our own homes. Oh well. The times of discovery are for me a pleasure to experience and watch.

Plow on and enjoy Mikey and all!

thanks for that great statement. it would be an honor for any thread to contain it :applaud:

yeah, ive put on the untouchables on that day just to give the pictures a little more class. i think its a totally nice movie, somehow feels like a fairytale to me. and the soundtrack is just GREAT.

cheers,
mikey

cosmos

11-01-2009, 09:24 AM

Demon,

I love the thread. Thank you for sharing. You obviously love audio and experimenting.. something most of us share.. keep it up and keep it coming.

Maron,

My personal belief is that if someone doesn't like a thread or the pictures therein, they should pretend they don't exist and look elsewhere and let the rest of us enjoy what they obviously can't.

Have a nice day.

Dan

demon

11-01-2009, 09:34 AM

thanks dan!
thats just what im thinking.

Maron Horonzakz

11-01-2009, 09:49 AM

Then enjoy,,but dont live a lie.

JBL 4645

11-01-2009, 09:53 AM

thanks for that great statement. it would be an honor for any thread to contain it :applaud:

yeah, ive put on the untouchables on that day just to give the pictures a little more class. i think its a totally nice movie, somehow feels like a fairytale to me. and the soundtrack is just GREAT.

cheers,
mikey

So you stuck it to make the thread fancy. :D

Ennio Morricone score and the sound effects with brilliant clear dialogue, I know I was just watching a few chapters from it. I’ve got The Peacemaker running now.

Bladerunner

11-22-2009, 04:09 PM

Lets face it ,its every guys dream to have a play pad and build huge loudspeakers!

Great Blog !!!

David :)

demon

11-23-2009, 11:04 AM

thanks for the comment david. i said to a friend last monday, trying to explain the appearance of my passion, that it is part of the joy for me to see, use and touch this great gear. to find it, understand it.
telling him about this, i showed him a 245o mounted to the throat of a 236o (without the bell), explainig that to me this is a piece of art. it has a certain gravity, mesmerizing.
well...maybe i should have become a mechanical engineer...

++++++

this weekend i oiled up the enclosures (folded baffles) of my subwoofers and i will hook them up again tomorrow i think. oiled MDF :) -another honest surface.

oiled greetings,
mikey

Bladerunner

11-23-2009, 02:34 PM

I am some what imnune to all this Hifi Pro stuff as I was the son of a Turntable Manufacture, my toys were made up of old Vitavox Westrex loudspeakers and prototype turntables and arms !!

My Hifi takes over my house and the kids love it !!!

Keep well :)

Eaulive

11-24-2009, 11:22 AM

Nothing

Eaulive

11-24-2009, 12:31 PM

...

Right you are :banghead:

Post edited ;)

JBL 4645

11-24-2009, 05:20 PM

^^^^Huh what? What is this happy catch phrase hour? :D

I can’t decipher what you two are talking about? lol

Say where has Doctor Frankenstein been for the past month, is Demon working on a new bang a JBL together with nuts and bolts project?:D

MikeBrewster77

11-24-2009, 07:42 PM

Say where has Doctor Frankenstein been for the past month, is Demon working on a new bang a JBL together with nuts and bolts project?:D

He just posted yesterday ... see below :o:

Eaulive

11-24-2009, 09:27 PM

You can even delete a post within 24 hours ... as I just did!

Thanks for clearing that up.
I was starting to think about getting professional help :screwy:

demon

01-01-2010, 10:04 AM

hey hey hey!!

last week i modified my big rack so i could push the speakers back to wall. lotsa work but quite rewarding, my laboratory has a lot more space now (pretty exactly a whole squaremeter :) ).
yesterday i put the big sexy 236o back into the system, and today i made a "happy new year!" picture for the forum! wanna see it? there:

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/P1100793haneweb999.jpg

happy new year my dear lansing-girls, -boys and -trolls!!
have a great 2o1o.
:dj-party:

for me it this last year was extremely exhausting because i had some huge tasks at work and found myself burnt out pretty much at the end (though it paid out). this new one will be more relaxed and layed back! now with my system beeing more or less finished, i dont have to think about even that much more and can enjoy my music. i got a hard drive full with jazz waiting to be explored! yes!!

what you see in the picture:
-the beautiful and amazing 4435 (lr12@5o Hz to lr48@556Hz)
-the magic 236o (lr48@556 to [email protected])
-the cute as babybutt 24o4 ([email protected]) ruffed provisorly onto the bell of the big horn
-the tired but proud mikey the hornmeyster (~1o5°@186cm)
-the sad little rest of my banana farm (5 to 3ocm)
-the RiPol-subwoofers left+right stacked as mono (lr12@5oHz)

i would be happy about an suggestions concerning the crossovers (i can even try out stuff for simple testing if anyone needs, its very easy digital).

I was starting to think about getting professional help http://1.2.3.11/bmi/audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/screwy.gif:D

wrong forum!

cheers--
^^ i l< = Y

JBL 4645

01-01-2010, 12:15 PM

Happy New Year demon

Does Bruce also help out and I see Boba Fett has nice bounty of JBL collections as well. I’d keep an eye on Bruce he bites low.:D
:happyh::tree:

Eaulive

01-01-2010, 03:31 PM

Happy New Year demon

Does Bruce also help out and I see Boba Fett has nice bounty of JBL collections as well. I’d keep an eye on Bruce he bites low.:D
:happyh::tree:

HA! It took me a while to find the Bobba Fett :applaud:

Happy new year!

demon

01-01-2010, 04:53 PM

good spotting! i didnt know the shark (in jaws) was called bruce, but now i do. mine is called heidy by the way. bubblehead-boba was a present from japan (-thanks to ken!!).

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/fullscreenweb999.jpg

i just frankensteined a panorama-shot. i think the 236o is a piece of art. did i already say that? i say it again: a piece of art. even when dusty, apparently.
i will try to get some 3d-feel-picture together next time, so you can see how they are "soaring" above the boxes. i cant take my eyes from them!
and the best: they sound SOOOOO amazingly good -whoohooo!!!
:dancin: :banana: :applaud:

say ash, can you guess the filmstill on the screen? its extremly funny and from 2oo8 (US).
(bigger version of the pic if interested = http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/fullscreenweb2222.jpg)

only a few things left to do, and all rather "secondary". like accuratly allining all the angles and distances of the boxes/horns (thinking about using optical tools), setup different settings for different occasions/trying out, reducing the noise of the amps and computer.

its all so cool.

:)

cheers,
mikey

demon

01-09-2010, 03:06 PM

hi again!

placing my horns on top of the 4435-cabinet leaves the low- and midfrequencies a far apart cluster.
though the crossoverpoint at 499Hz is rather low, i think this is a gap to avoid! i love coax-systems, because of their superior imaging, and what do i do? anticoaxing...(distance between woofer- and horn-center is ~1o5cm)...and the cluster gets even worse considering the subs are totally somewhere else.

"jesus what a clusterf_ck!"so last week i put the cabinets on their sides and put woofer and horn close together:

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/P1100806-90degWEB999.jpg

sounds good, looks bad. what an abomination!
considering the fact that it didnt sound much better than before i changed it back after a few days. initially i wanted to build custom stands for the horns so they can go lower then with the original 25o6B brackets, but seeing the horns hovering over the cabinets as now, i dont want to loose this certain flair. so i choose image over the imaging:

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/panoramaGIFweb999.gif

well its true: i take most of my decisions on stereo like everyone else -based on looks!
anyway, the whole thing is fixed for now the way it is.
oh yeah i also swapped the subs back to left+right stereo, slightly behind the listening postion. generate the soundfield between them, not much leaving the room (eg. my kitchen is bass-free, and probably the neighbors too).

i always hesitate to post grafics from my measurments, because they are made in a live room and not gated. but anyway, today i made some and changed this and that, so here are the newest grafix (smoothing = 1/3):

the 236o is now running fullrange, starting at 499hertz (filter=LR24dB).
the top curve is the (left) 236o+245o without equalizing, the second curve is a test-EQ, the third curve is the actual EQ, wich is also on on the last two curves:

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/20100109-236oLweb999.jpg

here is the (right) woofer, dooing what woofers do in a room (sweetspot=25ocm slightly off axis):
edit: this is a wider range than with actual in-system-cutoff, that would be: LR12@5oHz to LR24@499Hz)

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/20100109-2234Rweb999.jpg

here are my subs at listening position:
edit: actual cutoff in the system is LR12@5oHertz

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/20100109-subWEB999.jpg

i also made generous EQ tests via the inputsection of the crossover, to check different settings more easyly (smoothing = 1/1):

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/20100109-inputEQweb999.jpg

of course i dont want to spend my time listening to the warped curves, but for a quick comparison this might be good.

cheers,
mikey

ps: the filmstill i asked about in the last post is from >burn after reading< -hilarious quote repeated:

"jesus what a clusterf_ck!"

demon

02-14-2010, 08:33 AM

hello!

nothing changed the last few weeks on my system except that i got a new audio-interface, the MOTU ultralight MK3 "hybrid", transporting my precious music from the harddrive to the crossovers (in 24BIT/96kHz).
it also acts as a >standalone< mixer, accepting digital and analogue inputs, very handy (thats why i bought it).

you can see it here:

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/roomcollWEB999.png

cheers,
mikey

lgvenable

02-21-2010, 02:33 AM

what is the current cabinet volume for the 2206? I see two ports, at what diameter and how long? Are the ends flush or rounded to improve airflow?

I;m doing the same thing, but with 2404H baby cheeks and a dbx driverack 260 to get correct time alignment withou having to move the horn forward.

Have you ever considered some of the direct radiated front loading bass reflex enclosures they have over at altec lansing pro, in combination with the horn and tweeter its a lot like a modded VOTT.
http://www.altecpro.com/products/vintage/index.htm

the only issue is nearly every bass horn is 84" tall!

scott fitlin

02-21-2010, 02:40 AM

demon

02-21-2010, 02:01 PM

what is the current cabinet volume for the 2206? I see two ports, at what diameter and how long? Are the ends flush or rounded to improve airflow?
...
Have you ever considered some of the direct radiated front loading bass reflex enclosures they have over at altec lansing pro, in combination with the horn and tweeter its a lot like a modded VOTT.
http://www.altecpro.com/products/vintage/index.htm

the only issue is nearly every bass horn is 84" tall!

the 2206 is currently NOT in use. i gave the cabinets away to friend, and erased all detailed memories concerning them :o: -but i can look everything up somewhere if you really want. it was somerwhere close to 60 litres and most of the time i used the cabinets UNported.
user "aktivkampi" has the 2206, maybe he shares a secret or two: http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=26986 (also he got *nice* horns!)

anyhow i use my 4435 as woofers now, see the photo above, but im still a big fan of basshorns. some of my friends use klipschorns and tappedhorns and backloaded horns, and i like most of them! i also like the classic VOTT, for its a cool design, but for now, i got more than enough bass and the bins look cool too :)

How do you like the MOTU?yo scott!
im rather dissapointed by now, because its just no fun to handle:
-the menus on the display are complicated without beeing very smart, and the software editor is fixed to a certain size (small) and some kind of design-surface. unnecessary un-clear. sigh.
-the knobs are so small and tightly squeezed together that its hard to use one without touching another by accident. they have to be pressed and turned for various functions, if the ultralight isnt on a rubbery surface it gets easyly pushed away...and after some time trying to handle the whole device i always find myself quite annoyed. its not easy to use, let alone inviting. :(
-most important: sound crackles OFTEN and the "monitor" mastervolume on the SPDIF-out reacts with short distorted noise when a certain setting on a muted out channel is changed. eg: i listen to smooth jazz in the night, monitor-volume is on -34dB and i want to change the analogue-out1+2 from "monitor-volume" to straight 0dB (for some reason) the SPDIF-out (-34dB) suddenly gives a nice shot of 0dB-noise. ZRAPP!!!
-built quality isnt very good either, its hard to connect a firewirecable AND a DCplug at the same time because its so close togehter it slightly bends the plugs....

uhm. you got me into a tirade with your question. any particular reason you asked me?
GOOD things about my MOTU are that it allows BOTH firewire and USB, that it delivers high resolution (up to 192kHz) and that it got 8 (=4stereo) analogue in and outs, as well as 2(=1stereo) SPDIFsis. all at the same time, with EQs available and 'verb and alot of other FX (i will never touch in my live).

cheers,
mikey

demon

02-27-2010, 11:43 AM

good news!!

:D

today a box made out of cardboard gave birth to a pair of gorgeous twins! im so happy!! look at these two little fellas:

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/P1100923web999twins.jpg

i was wondering a LONG time about getting me some tiny speakers to backcheck mixes i do on the 'machine', and today i felt ready to get me another piece of ICONIC industrial design. i always loved the whole appearance, starting with the rubber inlays on the "cabinet", the rounded edges and simply the cute size! then, the face reminds me of edvard munch (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f4/The_Scream.jpg). finally, the sound: never really checked it out. but today i changed that, and i listen for some hours now in close nearfield, and what can i say: its probably the best smallest PA ive ever heard! SPL vs. size is simply unfair! and the frequency response appears ok too, so far. bass is lacking, but thats not so bad.

i compared them to a fostex backloaded horn a friend of mine gave me:

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/P1100932Web999vsfostex.jpg

the fostex are great, and sound lively and easy, REALLY enjoyable. if this wouldnt be a JBLboard, id openly drool a little over them now.
but it is, and i better drool over the ctrl ones...wich deserve it of course. for their size, they deserve LOTS of drooling.

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/mainVieWeb999ctrl1.jpg

i listen to superdynamic techno (re: hayden) right now, and, granted there is no real bass coming out, they DO fill the listening position with most of what i need, and that is much more then i asked them for. imaging is easy, tonality is inconspicuous and percussion is perky ;)
sounds good -im stunned here!

:applaud:

cheers,
mikey

caladois

04-12-2010, 01:51 AM

I am testing this week the 2360 too. Nice image, no projection, smooth and details response. But you need more than 4 meters for a good fusion.

demon

04-12-2010, 02:52 AM

hello stephane!

very nice looking speakers :)
-please tell me what you mean with "no projection", i dont understand it.

-4 meters for good fusion: sounds reasonable! only my flat isnt that big. im @2meters and i DO think the fusion is good enough. in fact, i dont miss a thing compared to a bookshelf monitor in a typical small studio (thats a reference i take very serious). also depends on the used filters in the XO, delay and phase settings.

although 2 meters isnt "classical nearfield", in the higher frequencies i have the FULL nearfield effect, thanks to the horn.

thanks for sharing your experience. hope to read more soon!

cheers,
mikey

caladois

04-12-2010, 03:03 AM

By "no projection", I try to mean that the image always stay behind the horn (like on multicellular profile), and is never pushed on front of the horn.
There is space and air around the musicians. Voices are excellent.

The set up is a simple two way at the moment : JBL 2450 + JBL E145. I use the old but good JBL M553ex analog crossover. It work quiet nice, except for low and High End. But that's not a surprise.

I need to find a smaller amp with less gain than my actual 200w THRESHOLD !!!

demon

04-12-2010, 03:24 AM

wait a second didnt you have these modern 43XX monitors?
do you want to change them, or are you just testing stuff?

i dont think the gain of the amp hasnt to do with the power.
i have PA amplifiers where i can reduce the gain with pots. thats handy.

cheers,
mikey

caladois

04-12-2010, 03:34 AM

My Studio monitors are not on the market :)
What type of pro amp do you use ? I should get back a small AMCRON D45 with pots to match. Shouldn't I ? Most of my ampS do not have gain control.

demon

04-12-2010, 04:07 AM

Mr. Widget

04-12-2010, 09:24 AM

caladois

04-13-2010, 08:32 AM

i cant post the name of my amps because they are so CHEAP its almost offensive to use them with my jbl gear.
the reason is that i honestly dont think that a proper built (solid state) amp can make audible difference to another proper built (ss) amp when used as intended.
(i attended some blindfolded tests)
i like overboarding power, solid built quality and good handling and cant waste alot of money (need four amps). thats why it had to be PA amps with HUGE transformers and lotsa WATTs. i reduced the coolerfan-rpm and dont waste a thought about them anymore.
theoretically i can get 6.9KW out of them but my flats fusebox wouldnt allow it... :o:

whats the difference in your monitors vs. the DIY speakers. how do they both feel?
im interested!

cheers,
mikey

I have a second smaller JDF-Audio amp (2x100w) with adjustable gain. The system is now quiet : No audible noise at 1m50 from the horn. It work nice, but not as smooth and neutral as my 43XX.
The 43xx are perfect for low and mid level, but the 2360 invite me to push the volume up up and up. It really work.
I do not know if it's due to the sensibility, but the 2450+2360 are very sensible with the amplifier used. Between the TRHESHOLD and the JDF-AUDIO the image change a lot. Believe me !!!

May be the fact I now use the same type of amp for bass and mid-high is another reason...

JDF-AUDIO HQS2400 upm for bass (JBL E145-8 + BR Box 145 liters)
JDF-AUDIO HQS2100 upm for mid-high (JBL 2450h + 2360 horn)

I will try a small AMCRON D45 next week.

demon

04-13-2010, 11:59 AM

hi stephane!

of course i believe everything you experience with the amps. most people have similar, and there must be a reason for that. i have read billions of threads on this topic on the german boards, and i choose a technical standpoint wich makes it very easy for me. but please lets not get into that here, its always a painful discussion :o:
--------
but please tell us your XO freq. and -do you equalize the horn? because its not very flat as it is.
third picture here (http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=275283#post275283) shows what i measured with my horns in my room (without gating).

im always eager to learn more about other peoples 236os :D

best--
mikey

jcrobso

04-14-2010, 08:12 AM

demon

05-04-2010, 10:54 AM

Holy smokes!!:biting::biting: Be careful!!!:blink:

thanks..! of course i am. i got lots of dangerous hobbies, all careful.
i am:
a careful listener enjoying dangerous volumes
a careful driver on a dangerous vehicle
a careful cook using dangerously sharpend knives and hazardous culinary clues
a careful dangerous pet and plant owner. see picture:

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/P1110093redkneeWeb999.jpg
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/P1110086closeWeb999.jpg

thats how careful i am.
-------------------------
and now for something completely audio:

my good friend robert recently designed a 12-channel pre-amp for use with a DIY active system like i (and he) have.
the pre will be placed after the (digital) crossovers and before the amps. the reason for that is that the noisefloor coming out of the XO is currently FULLY amplified, and fed to my high efficency speakers. that means its audible.
NEW: feeding the XO with full gain means relativly less noisefloor on the XO outputs, reducing the volume after that means i can turn the whole sound WAY down meaning the noisefloor vanishes.
(well at least thats the plan)
also the XO can be fed with full resolution/gain data and thats always a good thing.

the board robert designed looks like this:

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/boardWEb999.jpg

this is real DIY, this is VERY cool.

cheers,
mikey

demon

06-12-2010, 10:53 AM

listening to tom waits:

Rattle Big Black Bones
in the Danger zone
there's a rumblin' groan
down below
there's a big dark town
it's a place I've found
there's a world going on
UNDERGROUND
they're alive, they're awake
while the rest of the world is asleep
below the mine shaft roads
it will all unfold
there's a world going on
UNDERGROUND
all the roots hang down
swing from town to town
they are marching around
down under your boots
all the trucks unload
beyond the gopher holes
there's a world going on
UNDERGROUND

and watching blade runner:

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/P1110587bladerunnerWEB1200.jpg

i went to upgrade the cooler for my audio-computer-processor. theres a big dark town, its a place i found...

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/P1110573hundertwasser1187WEB1200.jpg

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/P1110568hundertwasser1187WEB1200.jpg

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/P1110570hundertwasser1187WEB1200.jpg

:applaud:

a huge and complex world in an inconspicuous black box :spchless:
controlled by windows and a mad man :thmbsup:

zooming out, the finished monster-cool monster-cooler in my little small normal sized monsterputer:

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/P1110581biradialFanWeb1200.jpg

cut//

demon

06-12-2010, 10:53 AM

//cut

zooming out even wider, the old room youve seen a million times now :)

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/mikeysound/P1110539greenroomWeb1200.jpg

i would sit right behind the keyboards hammering them but im behind the camera hammering the trigger ;)

cheers,
mikey

Maron Horonzakz

06-13-2010, 06:23 AM

You have stuffed spidy toys???????????????

hjames

06-13-2010, 07:28 AM

You have stuffed spidy toys???????????????

And you don't?
Of course, ours is a plush Cthulhu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cthulu), not a spider ... but what the heck ...

Maron Horonzakz

06-13-2010, 09:16 AM

I have nothing soft and fuzzy,,,Just the cold hard knobs on my krell preamp,,,,

scorpio

06-13-2010, 12:28 PM

And you don't?
Of course, ours is a plush Cthulhu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cthulu), not a spider ... but what the heck ...

A plush Cthulhu... I wonder how Mr. Lovecraft would have appreciated that!!!! :blink:

hjames

06-13-2010, 01:38 PM

A plush Cthulhu... I wonder how Mr. Lovecraft would have appreciated that!!!! :blink:

How could he have resisted an elder god like that?

Wouldn't he want a cute little ancient one of his own?

Zeno

06-16-2010, 03:50 AM

Hello, you wrote --> "im always eager to learn more about other peoples 236os :D"
Feel free to visit my Homepage Zenosound. It cost me a lot of time get them sound, but then there is nothing better:)! But it is not with JBL or ALTEC Driver. In case this post is not wanted in this forum, please delete.
Greets

demon

06-16-2010, 09:28 AM

hello ZENO!

funny, i wrote you an email two years ago if you had any 236o to sell :D
i see you use the mighty BMS coax driver. ive heard it on various tactrix-horns alot, and i really like it. sometimes i feel like i should test it at home, just for the hell of it. but the 245o is fantastic so...

your systems look very promising.
thanks for posing, and welcome to the board!

--

hey heather! the cthulhu looks nice. thanks for sharing :)
i like toys...

cheers from vienna,
mikey

Zeno

06-18-2010, 01:42 PM

Oh, and what was my answer? I can really not remember! Oh, yes, with the 2450 you will get outstanding performance too. Provided with DCX and the possibility to measure. When I started the project, there was no DCX, only one of the first digital speaker managament systems with a few parametric EQ`s. So I tried it passive, no way! Without the comfortable DCX I would have been sold all the stuff! Before the BMS I had the TAD 4002. Exellent, of course one of the best drivers I have ever heared. The only but outstanding advantage of the BMS are the real, punchy low mids. It feels like the whole music is coming out of the 2360. The BMS is the only driver i have ever seen with specification of x-max in the data sheet for the mid unit.
Good night from Munich!

demon

06-20-2010, 12:56 AM

i dont think i ever got an answer :(
luckily i found mine just a few days after the mail :)

since i didnt get any answer, seinerzeit, i would think its only fair if youd post at least some pictures of your systems now? maybe even wanna make a whole thread, i think what you do is pretty interesting and -unique!
thanks!

cheers,
mikey

demon

06-20-2010, 01:29 AM

You have stuffed spidy toys???????????????
of course, yes. plush toys, nice. spiders, sharks. oh yeah.
and im thinking about geting a stuffed troll, too ;)

Maron Horonzakz

06-20-2010, 01:01 PM

You must be lonesome,,,

pos

06-20-2010, 01:35 PM

and im thinking about geting a stuffed troll, too ;)
:applaud:

Zeno

06-20-2010, 02:15 PM

In the last three years came two children and fixing an old house, so my activities in speakers were very very low. So let`s check out how to load up a picture.....
4644246443
In the bass mid cabinets are PAS 2580C 15" or better 14" speaker. This speaker is very close to altec 406er. Very lightwight cone with extrem powerful magnet, Qts is 0.2. Crossover are very low 500 Hz with 12dB. Even for "goa open airs" i had never a problem with damged mf hf voice coils or something. This system is of course by far not as loud as other pa systems, that comes because you need to baffle the mid driver up to 12dB between 1khz and 3khz to get the 2360 sound hifi like. I found out, when the quality is fine, it is not necessary to reach very high spl. And the most important reason for the 2360 is that you are not in front of the speakers, no, it feels like you ARE in the speakers! Even for large scale venue. Long time ago, we made a test between 2380 and 2360. When you ever heared the difference, you now, horns that size of 2380 are simply to small. We had a switch to choose between both horns and with 2380 you had the feeling there is no horn mounted to the driver! No joke! Try it by yourself! Hearing with 2360 is FULLRANGE! Sorry, I beginn to remember .......now my house duty is calling.....see you later!
Greets from munich

Zeno

08-01-2010, 03:05 PM

Hello, I found some plots on my laptop.
46878
Here a very interesting plot, compared with JBL 2445J. No EQ, no crossover for both.
46880
The BMS HF Unit is running passive and also the high cut of the MF unit is passive. EQing and low cut by ultradrive 2496. Measurement HobbyBox.
Greets

Zeno

12-16-2012, 02:12 PM

Just some more expirience with the 2360, I have seen on the specifications, that the 2360 is working even from 350 Hz with a certain JBL Driver. Than I looked in the specifications of the BMS Coax driver, and aha, this one works from 300 Hz! So I tried to go down, with the dcx easy to do, and, exactly what the specifications says, the horn load the driver down to apprx. 340 Hz! Filter was bessel 12db. I was realy surprised who deep the setup can play, even 500 Hz which I used befor, was quiet deep. So, I had to do the sound for a little birthday party, I fixed the crossover by 400Hz, bessel 12dB. The advantage was, that I just put one mono woofer on the floor. Of course, I had not the best feeling bevor this event, because I doubt that this will work out. But it does very well. Woofer was a 15" Beyma. One funny thing, a man came to me, and ask whow it is possible, that he stand in the back of the room and its more or less the same sound level than direct in the front of the horns. This is one reason, why I think, that very big hf horns sound so good. They transmitt the sound much better to the air because they have this big surface. You could say, they "flood" the room with sound.